Hi, Karen —

I guess my confusion has to do with what I see as what I’m going to call “hiding the source vs. resourcing bullshit”.

1) Hiding the source – this information originated from you and is private. How does the cherch make this public without making it obvious that this is what they’ve done? I don’t see how they can do this. Let’s say that you say to a new friend, “I beat baby dinosaurs during lunch time for fun!” and then an obviously-from-the-cherch “anonymous” smear site updates with “Karen beats baby dinosaurs during lunch time for fun!” then you know that your new friend is a cherch spy. How could the cherch possibly release this information without you knowing that’s what happened?

vs.

2) Resourcing Bullshit – the cherch makes up some bullshit and then disguises its origin. As you and Jeff have explained it, it goes like this:
— step one, make up some bullshit.
— Step two, post the bullshit on the internet or in Freedumb or on fliers, etc.
— Step three: get someone legitimate to log it in some way: police blotter, in a court record, in a newspaper (in fact, if you report it to an agency or to a newspaper directly [“…according to anonymous sources, here’s some bullshit”], you can bypass step two).
— Step four: start referring to the agency that logged or referred to your bullshit as your source for the bullshit. You are now one degree removed from your bullshit.
— Step five: try to get someone new to refer to that referrer. By citing this new someone as the source for your bullshit, you are now two degrees removed from your bullshit. Repeat until it’s difficult for a critical thinker to track the bullshit back to you. They might know it’s bullshit, but you can innocently say, “moi? But my hands are clean!” and “if all of these people are talking about this bullshit, maybe there’s some truth to it after all?”

I think that the problem is (and it’s MY problem) is that when you say “covert-to-overt”, you’re talking about 2 and I’ve been thinking that you’ve been talking about 1.

So, as for what you’re actually describing: I get this perfectly. It is perfidious, and I hate that it’s effective. You’d think that all it would take is one person early on in the chain to be a critical thinker and say, “wait a minute — I’m in the presence of some bullshit!” But then the cherch can just completely take their statements out of context anyway.

This is evil behavior. It is awful. All good people should shun this as intrinsically evil.

Anyway, sorry for the wall-o-text. Mike Rinder calls me “dev-t”, but honestly I’m not trying to obfuscate with words. I’m just trying to be precise and make sure I understand you correctly.

Hi, Jeff — thanks! That makes sense. The problem with the PC folders, as I understand it, is that it’s not just person A disclosing something to person B: when you are audited, the information is actually shared and culled among many people. This is why in some cases it’s been ruled that PC folders and auditing /are not/ the same as priest-penitent privilege — in the Catholic Church, when you confess to a priest, he’s the only person who hears it. It isn’t written down and shared with his supervisor, and the supervisor’s supervisor, and anyone else who’s curious or feels like riffling through PC folders that day, as has actually happened when orgs have had volunteers in to help them sort PC folders.

Anyway, with PC-folder information, the best a victim is going to be able to do is say, “I only disclosed that during auditing”.

I was thinking more along the lines of someone, say, sending a spy in to get close to you or Karen, and you or Karen say something to this person (and only this person), and then that information shows up on a smear website. (Karen specifically mentioned this in her video.) You then know that that person is a spy unless the cherch figures out some way to “launder” that data. I can’t see how they’d be able to do that.

Good point! I imagine there will be some blow-back, though, all the same.

Karen and Jeff, a smart couple. I’m grateful for their invaluable contributions to exposing the cult with such intelligence.

Oh, I see; I did misunderstand you.

And yes, we have the advantage of being right and more numerous..and yet…. they do keep clingijg on, misguided cockroach-ike, don’t they?

Ha! Just so, Sid!

Good.. NOW GO TO BED

Ha! I like it. It’s very fitting of the jackass. Too bad MK doesn’t keep lists anymore as I like this one for DM too…it just came out in a fit of rage.