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	Comments on: Jon Atack: Auditing and recovered memory &#8212; why do Scientologists accept it as fact?	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Hassan		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1014019</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Hassan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2015 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-1014019</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1013875&quot;&gt;looneybug&lt;/a&gt;.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, Scientologists are programmed with phobias of psychiatrists- in fact all mental health professionals. Something they need to undo. Yes, there are some bad therapists, and some bad policies that have been in place- including overuse of medication and wrong/ missed diagnoses. Former cult members do not have a lot of mental health professionals who are trained to serve this population.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1013875">looneybug</a>.</p>
<p>Absolutely. Unfortunately, Scientologists are programmed with phobias of psychiatrists- in fact all mental health professionals. Something they need to undo. Yes, there are some bad therapists, and some bad policies that have been in place- including overuse of medication and wrong/ missed diagnoses. Former cult members do not have a lot of mental health professionals who are trained to serve this population.</p>
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		<title>
		By: looneybug		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1013875</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[looneybug]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2015 17:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-1013875</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-974413&quot;&gt;Steve Hassan&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for addressing this, Steve. Your last sentence sums it up. My husband is a psychiatrist. He prefers therapy to meds, not that he objects to meds, but he likes the connection that comes from a true therapeutic alliance. It is a position of great responsibility, however, and must always be treated as a sacred trust.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-974413">Steve Hassan</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for addressing this, Steve. Your last sentence sums it up. My husband is a psychiatrist. He prefers therapy to meds, not that he objects to meds, but he likes the connection that comes from a true therapeutic alliance. It is a position of great responsibility, however, and must always be treated as a sacred trust.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Old Timer		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1013519</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Old Timer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2015 13:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-1013519</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-974095&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

Jon Atack is and has been a voice of logic and reason operating in a sea of deception and insanity! 
I offer an alternative to the confusion embedded in psychological, psychiatric and Hubbardian descriptions of how the mind works: The mind is constructed so that it can &quot;re-wire&quot; itself in multiple layouts. To accept Hubbard&#039;s Dianetics or Scientology, for example, means that a person has &quot;re-wired&quot; his mind to fit his concepts. Similarly we re-wire to accept any of the other ten thousand or so non-Hubbardian descriptions of how the mind works. 
A second observation is that the human mind is a superb rationalizing machine. Given points A, B, and C, we can each of us easily make them have meaning in their relationship to one another! -- because our minds automatically rationalize their relationships. Given a nudge by another, such as Hubbard, we can just as easily rationalize that A, B and C have the relationships that he has described for us. A form of religion historically has been the overriding rationalization that all lived by until the development of a new method of behavior called &quot;science.&quot; But science itself is not a change from first aspects of religion. In science first one rationalizes a phenomena (just as does religion) and then one must show that it is true, i.e., that it works. Thus &quot;proving that a rationalization properly explains phenomena by its workability&quot; is the extension of religion from first a mental construct brought about by imaginative rationalization and  then second a substantiation of that rationalization by demonstrating workability!
Only once in several hundred years or so has there been born a human with some of the abilities that Hubbard declared would be shown by a &quot;clear.&quot; Most of these humans have been labeled as &quot;Idiot Savants,&quot; folks with fascinating abilities to remember, or play musical instruments or cypher. I know of no one reported in history to have acquired or been born with all of the gifts a Hubbardian &quot;clear&quot; would have. Thus, when Hubbard defined a &quot;clear&quot; and claimed that his processes would bring one about, the fact that he could not demonstrate workability should have been enough for all of us.
Pity it was not!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-974095">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>Jon Atack is and has been a voice of logic and reason operating in a sea of deception and insanity!<br />
I offer an alternative to the confusion embedded in psychological, psychiatric and Hubbardian descriptions of how the mind works: The mind is constructed so that it can &#8220;re-wire&#8221; itself in multiple layouts. To accept Hubbard&#8217;s Dianetics or Scientology, for example, means that a person has &#8220;re-wired&#8221; his mind to fit his concepts. Similarly we re-wire to accept any of the other ten thousand or so non-Hubbardian descriptions of how the mind works.<br />
A second observation is that the human mind is a superb rationalizing machine. Given points A, B, and C, we can each of us easily make them have meaning in their relationship to one another! &#8212; because our minds automatically rationalize their relationships. Given a nudge by another, such as Hubbard, we can just as easily rationalize that A, B and C have the relationships that he has described for us. A form of religion historically has been the overriding rationalization that all lived by until the development of a new method of behavior called &#8220;science.&#8221; But science itself is not a change from first aspects of religion. In science first one rationalizes a phenomena (just as does religion) and then one must show that it is true, i.e., that it works. Thus &#8220;proving that a rationalization properly explains phenomena by its workability&#8221; is the extension of religion from first a mental construct brought about by imaginative rationalization and  then second a substantiation of that rationalization by demonstrating workability!<br />
Only once in several hundred years or so has there been born a human with some of the abilities that Hubbard declared would be shown by a &#8220;clear.&#8221; Most of these humans have been labeled as &#8220;Idiot Savants,&#8221; folks with fascinating abilities to remember, or play musical instruments or cypher. I know of no one reported in history to have acquired or been born with all of the gifts a Hubbardian &#8220;clear&#8221; would have. Thus, when Hubbard defined a &#8220;clear&#8221; and claimed that his processes would bring one about, the fact that he could not demonstrate workability should have been enough for all of us.<br />
Pity it was not!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fuji		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-1012995</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fuji]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2015 02:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-1012995</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-974392&quot;&gt;Richard&lt;/a&gt;.

I was serious!! :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-1/#comment-974392">Richard</a>.</p>
<p>I was serious!! 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lighthouse		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-977444</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lighthouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 08:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-977444</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-977440&quot;&gt;Pete Griffiths&lt;/a&gt;.

Lol!  Oh, yes, I had lots of space &quot;experiences&quot;.  As a lowly slave on planet Cirus, I tried to over take the SPs in a space ship, followed by other spaces ships, we were a fleet, but we were blown to smithereens!  Another PTS story!  

I also created a situation between three planets as a Fourth Invader.  I was a bad guy then.  Ha, ha!  Needless to say, I was caught and exterminated.  

I&#039;ve &quot;been&quot; on many space stations.  It seems I do indeed have a vivid imagination.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-977440">Pete Griffiths</a>.</p>
<p>Lol!  Oh, yes, I had lots of space &#8220;experiences&#8221;.  As a lowly slave on planet Cirus, I tried to over take the SPs in a space ship, followed by other spaces ships, we were a fleet, but we were blown to smithereens!  Another PTS story!  </p>
<p>I also created a situation between three planets as a Fourth Invader.  I was a bad guy then.  Ha, ha!  Needless to say, I was caught and exterminated.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve &#8220;been&#8221; on many space stations.  It seems I do indeed have a vivid imagination.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pete Griffiths		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-977440</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pete Griffiths]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 08:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-977440</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-977436&quot;&gt;Lighthouse&lt;/a&gt;.

Good points! One of my more bizarre &#039;memories&#039; was being executed  as a very naughty space pirate by having my body atomised by some machine that literally tore you apart! Hilarious, I get a warm flush even thinking about it.  Oh that Ron!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-977436">Lighthouse</a>.</p>
<p>Good points! One of my more bizarre &#8216;memories&#8217; was being executed  as a very naughty space pirate by having my body atomised by some machine that literally tore you apart! Hilarious, I get a warm flush even thinking about it.  Oh that Ron!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lighthouse		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-977436</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lighthouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2015 07:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-977436</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-976920&quot;&gt;Pete Griffiths&lt;/a&gt;.

Lol!  Thanks.

I&#039;ve also &quot;been&quot; a bear cub tumbling down a mountain.  I did lots of things on the edge of mountains, can&#039;t remember them now!  

Other &quot;memories&quot; that turned up in auding were that I was a high priest bathing in a copper cauldron of blood.  Yet another one, I was pilate who had stolen a chest full to the top of sparkling green emeralds.  Unfortunately, someone caught me and I lost them.  Drat!   I did wonder at the time if emeralds had even been mined at that time.  

I must say, I had fun with it all.  Perhaps someone should write a book of similar stories.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-976920">Pete Griffiths</a>.</p>
<p>Lol!  Thanks.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also &#8220;been&#8221; a bear cub tumbling down a mountain.  I did lots of things on the edge of mountains, can&#8217;t remember them now!  </p>
<p>Other &#8220;memories&#8221; that turned up in auding were that I was a high priest bathing in a copper cauldron of blood.  Yet another one, I was pilate who had stolen a chest full to the top of sparkling green emeralds.  Unfortunately, someone caught me and I lost them.  Drat!   I did wonder at the time if emeralds had even been mined at that time.  </p>
<p>I must say, I had fun with it all.  Perhaps someone should write a book of similar stories.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pete Griffiths		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-976920</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pete Griffiths]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2015 17:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-976920</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-976116&quot;&gt;Lighthouse&lt;/a&gt;.

I really like your imagination :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-976116">Lighthouse</a>.</p>
<p>I really like your imagination 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lighthouse		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-976116</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lighthouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2015 16:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-976116</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-974794&quot;&gt;Pete Griffiths&lt;/a&gt;.

In my PTS rundown, one of my &quot;pictures&quot; was myself as a giant crab being bullied by a dinosaur!  It was tossing me around like a cat does to a mouse.  

I was also a giant turtel hiding in the depths of the ocean.  Yet, I saw ships on the horizon.  Really?  

I&#039;m glad Jon Atack has explained how this bullshit happens.  Thank you, Jon, what you say makes total sense.  

I&#039;m immensely relieved to have gotten out when I did.  Someone recently mentioned that the bright are the ones who can confront and then leave.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-974794">Pete Griffiths</a>.</p>
<p>In my PTS rundown, one of my &#8220;pictures&#8221; was myself as a giant crab being bullied by a dinosaur!  It was tossing me around like a cat does to a mouse.  </p>
<p>I was also a giant turtel hiding in the depths of the ocean.  Yet, I saw ships on the horizon.  Really?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad Jon Atack has explained how this bullshit happens.  Thank you, Jon, what you say makes total sense.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m immensely relieved to have gotten out when I did.  Someone recently mentioned that the bright are the ones who can confront and then leave.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymouse		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-975652</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2015 03:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=22909#comment-975652</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-974794&quot;&gt;Pete Griffiths&lt;/a&gt;.

Sounds like it was a Ford Model T...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/05/30/jon-atack-auditing-and-recovered-memory-why-do-scientologists-accept-it-as-fact/comment-page-2/#comment-974794">Pete Griffiths</a>.</p>
<p>Sounds like it was a Ford Model T&#8230;</p>
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