Fair enough.

I understand what you’re saying, and have read your post. I just think that situational factors are far more significant to Scientology’s manipulative power than intentional ones. After all, there are many high-control groups which are organised in exactly the same way as Scientology – are we to believe that all the gurus who originated them have made extensive studies of psychological manipulation and control?

Finally, Hubbard referred to “1984” but did he read, or understand it? He undoubtedly thought he was in control of everything, and that confidence is likely the source of his ‘charisma’. I simply doubt that he really understood what he was doing, or why it worked.

I will leave this discussion at that. It’s been good (after all, we learn nothing by agreeing with each other all the time).

Off topic – here is a video your name reminded me of.

Enjoy –

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=z5Otla5157c

I disagree , he plagiarized and altered – never originated . I have written extensively about his consistent use of the same thought reform and propaganda techniques over and over .I could go back n for hours with hundreds of examples .It was intentional. He saw lying as a rhetorical method – which it is .Most of us have little knowledge of rhetoric AND emotions cloud our views on lying .Once we know we are being lied to or about we get mad . And never analyze it in depth .

Hubbard had styles of lies , and different ones for different effects . You can read my blog if you like .

I do not want to just keep listing the same ideas here .

http://mbnest.blogspot.com/2015/03/propaganda-by-reversal-of-meaning-in.html?m=1

That’ no way to understand anything – and if you don’t understand it, you are not going to be able to put it into practical effect.
I could take good notes from a medical textbook… but I would strongly advise you not to let me remove your appendix.

Besides, it’s not just his academic record. Almost everything he discusses in print he evidently does not understand, or just make stuff up. “All About Radiation” is a case in point.

Re his academic record . That is a red herring – he is the most prolific plagiarist ever – he has stolen from Crowley , Hitler , Confucius, Lao Tzu, Marcus Aurelius, …So, taking a cliff notes version of the eight criteria for thought reform iis within his grasp . He reportedly had aides explain EVERYTHING to him and then dashed off his doctrine after . He mentions elements of others work far too much and has repackaged hypnotism all through his auditing and indoctrination and ethics etc .

Oh , and regarding psychology he was known to study it and plagiarized from it liberally .And see the Affirmations .

I have found hundreds of quotes both in his doctrine and outside of it that show he 1) extensively studied hypnotism, rhetoric and other forms or schools of influence and 2) have found in his methods combined methods of influence and 3) the most extensive collection of loaded language to my knowledge EVER created . In particular it invalidates ALL subjects like hypnotism and logic and critical thinking that would expose Hubbard’s methods and uses the propaganda method of complete reversal of truth relentlessly intentionally to obfuscate ( hide with confusing language) and obliterate reason .

That his methods literally are a brainwashing manual and there are numerous times HE discusses Orwell , Pavlov and others in his doctrine is no coincidence: I cannot see how it was not by design.

I think Hubbard saw that ‘brainwashing manual’ as a way to exploit cold war fears, and his academic record shows that he was incapable of taking Lifton’s work in, let alone applying it systematically.

The manipulative power of Scientology lay in the situation that naturally emerged when an intolerant narcissist acquired ‘disciples’ who took his writing and ‘lectures’ to be gospel. All Hubbard did was mercilessly suppress dissent and reinforce those developments which enhanced his power with new ‘discoveries’.

Where we differ is that you believe Hubbard used the knowledge of his time to design an organisation which would control its members. I believe that he was incapable of this, and Scientology’s undoubted manipulative power emerged from a situation e unwittingly created, in the same way as the behaviour of the ‘guards’ and ‘prisoners’ were corrupted in Zimbardo’s Stanford prison experiment.

In conclusion, Hubbard had no understanding of what he was doing and likely credited his ‘success’ to Scientology, not Psychology (which he famously hated).

Oh , and the simple folie a deux idea is relevant too .

Okay , the strength of thought reform is…a unresolved issue to some minds .I see influence as existing but not either all powerful or having no force .
Repetition , confusion, cognitive dissonance and other phenomena have some effectiveness.

Now regarding the methods cult leaders are accused of seeking and using for Ron Hubbard there is a tremendous and overwhelming amount of evidence that he studied hypnotism and rhetoric and earlier cults and totalist groups to make a thought reform program .He studied Crowley and Hitler to refine their methods and even Orwell and Lifton’s warnings to make a thought reform program .

I cannot comment on all others but Hubbard wrote the Brainwashing Manual – literally . He saw the book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism as a how to book !