testing, sorry

I think you’ve got it. Hubbard didn’t care either. If he had been a good man, if he believed Scientology worked, he would have taken some pains to make sure there was a good leader in place to take over; he would have made sure that there was a system of checks and balances in place so tyranny wouldn’t rule the day. The fact he didn’t, speaks volumes. He was just in it for himself. Sad, sad, sad.

thanks a lot for all the info. I guess lots of ot-8s go crazy. all you know is who you’re not and you don’t have any super powers either. plus it’s the end of the road and if you don’t feel great there is no other level that could fix it, nowhere to go, nothing to do about it.

I think with all the empty orgs and the continued fund raising of DM more people will come to their senses and leave the church. maybe people you used to call friends will leave too.

DM must know that many people leave because of him so I wonder why he doesn’t tune back on the fundraising for a while and tries to actually get new people in so he could make more money from services. I feel there is no effort to get new people in (hence new grand empty buildings). DM does not care if this cult survives another 100 years. I guess he knows this whole thing is a sinking ship and he needs to cash in as long as possible. what will be left in 20 years is DM on a private island with 2 billion in his bank account and no more parishioners.

I’ll try to answer your questions. First about the lady in the YouTube video. Is she happy? The short answer is “Yes”.

Hubbard defined happiness as the overcoming of not unknowable obstacles toward a known goal. That woman had a goal (becoming OT-8) and she overcame some obstacles. So she’s happy, at least in that moment.

But Scientology is littered with Scientologists who were happy about achieving some level who then went insane, killed themselves or killed others. I’ll give you just three examples that I know of: Larry Wolersheim, Rex Fowler and Lisa McPherson.

All are tragic stories but I’ll focus on Lisa McPherson. Lisa attested to Clear in Sept of 1995, two months later she was dead.

In Sept when she attested to Clear, she was very happy. She wrote the following: “There are no words adequate! I am so full of life I am overwhelmed at the joy of it all! It has been a long tough haul and worth every single thing I’ve had to go through. I could not have made it without all my friends and of course LRH. I have never been happier in my life and for now that will have to suffice for my lack of words. Now, I understand!”-Lisa McPherson

Just two months later she had a psychotic break, was treated by the Church for her insanity and died while under the care of the Church. The coroner ruled her death “negligent homicide”.

Happiness, the kind that Scientology sells, is somewhat meaningless. It is not the same as enjoying a satisfying life. Scientologists are given goals and there are many barriers to overcome. Once reaching that goal, one experiences happiness.

One could liken this to reaching the top of Mt. Everest after a long, hard climb. It would be exhilarating. But on the way down the mountain you get buried by an avalanche. And in your time of trouble, the Church will not be there for you. Not unless you have a lot of money.

So I think the woman in the video is at that moment happy.

You asked if I was influenced by critics or was it my own doubts that led me to leaving. I’ll try to answer.

Every Scientologist who has left has their breaking point–that point at which you just say, ENOUGH! Once I reached that point, I was open to hearing what top Scientologists who had left had to say such as Jason Beghe, Marty Rathbun and Debbie Cook. Their words and experience echoed mine and I realized I wasn’t alone; that I wasn’t imaging things–something was rotten in Denmark.

For me personally, the non-Scientology critics had no impact. I was trained to think they were SPs and criminals and I believed it.

I spent two years taking care of an OT-8 who had gone insane–she had violent mood swings and was dangerous. She lived in terror–she believed the water and air were poison. Her family refused proper treatment for her because the Church had indoctrinated them to believe psychiatrists were evil. Her suffering and her family’s ignorance woke me up.

I finally said, ENOUGH! This is wrong. Once I reached that point, I was open to hearing what top Scientologists who had left had to say such as Jason Beghe, Marty Rathbun and Debbie Cook. Their words and experience echoed mine and I realized I wasn’t alone; that I wasn’t imaging things–something was rotten in Denmark.

For me personally, the non-Scientology critics had no impact. I was trained to think they were SPs and criminals and I believed it. Now I realized it was just a mind control mechanism.

I didn’t mean to go on and on. Hope my answers are helpful. And thank you for asking.

I really don’t know how much he knows, but I am very fed up with scientologist infringing upon others liberties. I forget who said to paraphrase, ‘your rights to swing your arms wildly stop right before they reach the other persons nose.’

We all bring something special here! The bunker is a very special place!

Yeah, it did. Thanks! Glad there’s some semblance of the beginning of a resolution to all of the nonsense.

From what I read most people leave because they are unhappy with what they see inside the church. Very seldom do I hear that anyone leaves because of critical info from the outside. Do you feel critical words from the outside help at all? Do you feel that the people who are picketing have the slightest influence on the members who enter and leave the buildings? I know you are told they are criminals and/or paid, but does anything they say result in any doubt at all? Did you leave because of “internal” reasons and once you were out read all the horrendous things about the church or did you have doubts and started reading on the internet first and left (among other reasons) because of that? I’m just wondering if any criticism from the outside makes an impression or if the only reason most people leave is because of what they see on the inside and being disillusioned, broke etc..

And one more thing (you obviously don’t need to answer any of my questions if you don’t want), do you know the youtube video “OT-8 SCIENTOLOGISTS RAMBLING (#2)”? do you think this lady is happy? I feel sad seeing her like this. I hope she’s happy. but if I told her “you’re ot8 why would you need glasses? why would you need notes, don’t you have a perfect memory? shouldn’t you have magical powers?” what would she say? I guess she would be angry, thinking I make fun of her.

Hmm. The simple answer is thirty-four years. It is almost impossible to explain how one could not notice that you weren’t getting what was promised for that long. That’s why it is a cult. Thought stopping techniques are employed to keep you from noticing. They are very effective and have been described many times on Tony’s blog.
I feel betrayed only by LRH who put the system in place. He was not an honest man. Auditors are merely players who for the most believe they are helping. I still have a great deal of affinity for one of my auditors. It’s very hard to explain.