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	Comments on: &#8216;Going Clear&#8217; fallout: Imagining the fate of Scientology and David Miscavige	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: Valhalkarie		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-934053</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Valhalkarie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-934053</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If it&#039;s a religion it&#039;s book,or bible if you will should not be copy writed, there are independant believers . This fact that they copywrite everything proves it&#039;s a buisness!!!! Pictures of the author of the book are copy writed,so jesus the cross etc,should be copywrited? Helloooooooo!!!! It&#039;s a buisness!!!!!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s a religion it&#8217;s book,or bible if you will should not be copy writed, there are independant believers . This fact that they copywrite everything proves it&#8217;s a buisness!!!! Pictures of the author of the book are copy writed,so jesus the cross etc,should be copywrited? Helloooooooo!!!! It&#8217;s a buisness!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: flyonthewall		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-908060</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[flyonthewall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-908060</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-846306&quot;&gt;generic sock account&lt;/a&gt;.

Do you think Wogsy rides the trolley to work?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-846306">generic sock account</a>.</p>
<p>Do you think Wogsy rides the trolley to work?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wayne Borean		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-860594</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wayne Borean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 14:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-860594</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-846284&quot;&gt;Jens TINGLEFF&lt;/a&gt;.

Yeah, but Miscavige has records. Somewhere. Find where he hides the info, and you (or Shelly) have found the loot.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-846284">Jens TINGLEFF</a>.</p>
<p>Yeah, but Miscavige has records. Somewhere. Find where he hides the info, and you (or Shelly) have found the loot.</p>
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		<title>
		By: IL Luminacca		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-859746</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[IL Luminacca]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 00:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-859746</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[interesting and somewhat related read, with a mention of the Scientology meltdown in the middle

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/27/what-happens-when-your-guru-disappears.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>interesting and somewhat related read, with a mention of the Scientology meltdown in the middle</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/27/what-happens-when-your-guru-disappears.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/27/what-happens-when-your-guru-disappears.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: KNMF		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-1/#comment-859555</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KNMF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2015 22:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-859555</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-1/#comment-844909&quot;&gt;Observer&lt;/a&gt;.

Hey, Observer. I don&#039;t know if you do requests, but since Davy won&#039;t talk...I got to thinking about a 
&quot;Where&#039;s
 Miscavige?&quot; thing in the &quot;where&#039;s waldo?&quot; tradition, but in maybe a 
hellish landscape a la Bosch&#039;s Garden of Earthly Delights right panel 
obviously. Of course being barely an idea man and no kind of artist or 
craftsperson, I wouldn&#039;t know where to begin.

Or have you done that already? ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-1/#comment-844909">Observer</a>.</p>
<p>Hey, Observer. I don&#8217;t know if you do requests, but since Davy won&#8217;t talk&#8230;I got to thinking about a<br />
&#8220;Where&#8217;s<br />
 Miscavige?&#8221; thing in the &#8220;where&#8217;s waldo?&#8221; tradition, but in maybe a<br />
hellish landscape a la Bosch&#8217;s Garden of Earthly Delights right panel<br />
obviously. Of course being barely an idea man and no kind of artist or<br />
craftsperson, I wouldn&#8217;t know where to begin.</p>
<p>Or have you done that already? 😉</p>
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		<title>
		By: Todd Tomorrow		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-851629</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Todd Tomorrow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2015 06:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-851629</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-848014&quot;&gt;Pierrot&lt;/a&gt;.

I can start on Thurday. I&#039;m not around until 9p on Fri, Sat and Sun. I&#039;ll register with WWP and then you can give me instructions? Thanks, T]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-848014">Pierrot</a>.</p>
<p>I can start on Thurday. I&#8217;m not around until 9p on Fri, Sat and Sun. I&#8217;ll register with WWP and then you can give me instructions? Thanks, T</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peggy oh!		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-849357</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peggy oh!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2015 01:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-849357</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-849331&quot;&gt;Super Power Wogsy&lt;/a&gt;.

Your post made me get off my butt and find my old discus account and actually post! I was really worried it came off as harsh or discouraging! Which I didn&#039;t mean at all! But I really wanted to reassure you as well as encourage you not to push too hard. 

ABA is really interesting and has evolved quite a bit since my child was that age and it was impossible to get then.  But they were still using aversives so you might not want to learn too much about Lovaas or it&#039;s history! It May be a trigger! It broke my heart and made me weep for days. They have pretty much pulled out the most useful aspects of it now, and left the horrors behind. 

The rewards of raising or working with children or adults with autism are very great. But even when we do everything right there are many painful set backs and experiences. Very many. It can be absolutely crushing at times. And for long periods of time, without break sometimes. I see how devoted and unselfish you exes are, and I do believe healing can go in tandem with helping others, as well it would probably be great to work for a truly worthwhile cause after working so hard at a cruel illusion of a cause. It breaks my heart.

Take good care of yourself! Your dreams are not impossible! I am sure the kids and families you worked with appreciate you very much. (We don&#039;t stop appreciating even years after good people have worked with our kids- We REMEMBER them always. I will feel my heartfelt gratitude for them until the day I die.) Peace and love!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-849331">Super Power Wogsy</a>.</p>
<p>Your post made me get off my butt and find my old discus account and actually post! I was really worried it came off as harsh or discouraging! Which I didn&#8217;t mean at all! But I really wanted to reassure you as well as encourage you not to push too hard. </p>
<p>ABA is really interesting and has evolved quite a bit since my child was that age and it was impossible to get then.  But they were still using aversives so you might not want to learn too much about Lovaas or it&#8217;s history! It May be a trigger! It broke my heart and made me weep for days. They have pretty much pulled out the most useful aspects of it now, and left the horrors behind. </p>
<p>The rewards of raising or working with children or adults with autism are very great. But even when we do everything right there are many painful set backs and experiences. Very many. It can be absolutely crushing at times. And for long periods of time, without break sometimes. I see how devoted and unselfish you exes are, and I do believe healing can go in tandem with helping others, as well it would probably be great to work for a truly worthwhile cause after working so hard at a cruel illusion of a cause. It breaks my heart.</p>
<p>Take good care of yourself! Your dreams are not impossible! I am sure the kids and families you worked with appreciate you very much. (We don&#8217;t stop appreciating even years after good people have worked with our kids- We REMEMBER them always. I will feel my heartfelt gratitude for them until the day I die.) Peace and love!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Super Power Wogsy		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-849331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Super Power Wogsy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2015 01:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-849331</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-847574&quot;&gt;Peggy oh!&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Peggy! Welcome to the Bunker!: ) Sorry for the delayed response. This week for me is test week as I wrap up my semester. lol I really do beat myself up sometimes. My viewpoint is how am I gonna raise a child when I would rather be Bunkering lol. yeah I&#039;m pretty all over the place lately. My memory has significantly decreased the past year. Doesn&#039;t go well with my procrastination habits anymore lolol. I guess I&#039;m kinda in denial about the PTSD thing. I&#039;m barely managing to get a degree through all the emotional ups and downs, amd I am very hard on myself about it.

 I actually worked with children who have autism for 7 months, and you are right, it is tough. I worked full-time as well 4 months after leaving Scientology. The changes that I witnessed were pretty incredible though, and I am already on the Behavioral facebook pages, and I have always been fascinated with ABA ever since I learned what it was. I figured I might as well go where my mind wanders. 

After my internship, hopefully i will be able to settle down a bit and do some soul searching and nurturing before I start applying to grad school. But thank you so much for your response. I absolutely salute you for being a parent of child with autism. I can only imagine how difficult it is. I guess you are right. In some way I have been trying ot make up for lost time. Anyways thanks again for your response. It really does make me feel better that I am not the only questioning whether or not I&#039;ll handle a little kiddo or the fact that I let my plants die as well, and that fact alone wouldn&#039;t make me a bad person to raise a child lol ; )]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-847574">Peggy oh!</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Peggy! Welcome to the Bunker!: ) Sorry for the delayed response. This week for me is test week as I wrap up my semester. lol I really do beat myself up sometimes. My viewpoint is how am I gonna raise a child when I would rather be Bunkering lol. yeah I&#8217;m pretty all over the place lately. My memory has significantly decreased the past year. Doesn&#8217;t go well with my procrastination habits anymore lolol. I guess I&#8217;m kinda in denial about the PTSD thing. I&#8217;m barely managing to get a degree through all the emotional ups and downs, amd I am very hard on myself about it.</p>
<p> I actually worked with children who have autism for 7 months, and you are right, it is tough. I worked full-time as well 4 months after leaving Scientology. The changes that I witnessed were pretty incredible though, and I am already on the Behavioral facebook pages, and I have always been fascinated with ABA ever since I learned what it was. I figured I might as well go where my mind wanders. </p>
<p>After my internship, hopefully i will be able to settle down a bit and do some soul searching and nurturing before I start applying to grad school. But thank you so much for your response. I absolutely salute you for being a parent of child with autism. I can only imagine how difficult it is. I guess you are right. In some way I have been trying ot make up for lost time. Anyways thanks again for your response. It really does make me feel better that I am not the only questioning whether or not I&#8217;ll handle a little kiddo or the fact that I let my plants die as well, and that fact alone wouldn&#8217;t make me a bad person to raise a child lol ; )</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zana		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-1/#comment-849090</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2015 21:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-849090</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-1/#comment-848489&quot;&gt;Lighthouse&lt;/a&gt;.

I will.  Thanks!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-1/#comment-848489">Lighthouse</a>.</p>
<p>I will.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>
		By: HarmlessWeirdo		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/03/19/going-clear-fallout-imagining-the-fate-of-scientology-and-david-miscavige/comment-page-3/#comment-848914</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HarmlessWeirdo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2015 20:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=21101#comment-848914</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Okay, I&#039;m late to this thread, but might as well jump in the internet speculation pool.

I personally think that David Miscavige&#039;s likeliest fate is that one day he will raise his tiny fists against the wrong person--or people, even--and get the beating that&#039;s been coming to him. Somebody with nothing left to lose is just going to snap after however many years of leading an insane, terrorized existence, and under the right circumstances I can see things going fatally wrong for little Davey.

That, or someone close to him will experience that same snapping, but in super-sneaky slo-mo, and poison him. 

Or maybe the snap-ee will simply (and premeditatedly) shoot the little sociopath (and probably do him/herself in, while they&#039;re at it). 

Short version: One of the beleaguered faithful will be the instrument of COB&#039;s exteriorization.

So who would take over? I&#039;ll eat my laptop if there&#039;s a succession plan in place, but who better to replace Miscavige than Bob Duggan? He&#039;s Scientology&#039;s single biggest backer by far, and has plenty of business acumen.

Trouble is, Duggan&#039;s a capable CEO--far too capable for Scientology. Given Scientology&#039;s rigidly authoritarian, by-the-book, inflexible, and punitive &quot;company culture,&quot; all rooted in LRH&#039;s gospel truth--which works to its detriment, and is destroying it from within--there is no place for a capable leader who can run the Co$ like a business instead of a totalitarian dictatorship. To do so would require an overhaul from the ground up of how the Co$ &quot;company&quot; is structured and how it is run, which would mean admitting LRH&#039;s directives were...*gasp*--wrong. Yeah, like that&#039;s going to happen. But the resulting schism between old-guard &quot;LRH&#039;s way!&quot; faithful and a new, rational order of doing business could be just the thing to send the whole evil organization crashing to the ground.

In the meantime, I&#039;m stocking up on popcorn.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I&#8217;m late to this thread, but might as well jump in the internet speculation pool.</p>
<p>I personally think that David Miscavige&#8217;s likeliest fate is that one day he will raise his tiny fists against the wrong person&#8211;or people, even&#8211;and get the beating that&#8217;s been coming to him. Somebody with nothing left to lose is just going to snap after however many years of leading an insane, terrorized existence, and under the right circumstances I can see things going fatally wrong for little Davey.</p>
<p>That, or someone close to him will experience that same snapping, but in super-sneaky slo-mo, and poison him. </p>
<p>Or maybe the snap-ee will simply (and premeditatedly) shoot the little sociopath (and probably do him/herself in, while they&#8217;re at it). </p>
<p>Short version: One of the beleaguered faithful will be the instrument of COB&#8217;s exteriorization.</p>
<p>So who would take over? I&#8217;ll eat my laptop if there&#8217;s a succession plan in place, but who better to replace Miscavige than Bob Duggan? He&#8217;s Scientology&#8217;s single biggest backer by far, and has plenty of business acumen.</p>
<p>Trouble is, Duggan&#8217;s a capable CEO&#8211;far too capable for Scientology. Given Scientology&#8217;s rigidly authoritarian, by-the-book, inflexible, and punitive &#8220;company culture,&#8221; all rooted in LRH&#8217;s gospel truth&#8211;which works to its detriment, and is destroying it from within&#8211;there is no place for a capable leader who can run the Co$ like a business instead of a totalitarian dictatorship. To do so would require an overhaul from the ground up of how the Co$ &#8220;company&#8221; is structured and how it is run, which would mean admitting LRH&#8217;s directives were&#8230;*gasp*&#8211;wrong. Yeah, like that&#8217;s going to happen. But the resulting schism between old-guard &#8220;LRH&#8217;s way!&#8221; faithful and a new, rational order of doing business could be just the thing to send the whole evil organization crashing to the ground.</p>
<p>In the meantime, I&#8217;m stocking up on popcorn.</p>
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