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	<title>
	Comments on: Scientology&#8217;s first &#8216;Clear&#8217;: L. Ron Hubbard intended to return as his daughter Diana&#8217;s son	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-1290814</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2016 01:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-1290814</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-741097&quot;&gt;J. Swift&lt;/a&gt;.

There&#039;s about 5 or 6 or 7 &quot;Staff Statuses&quot;.


You have to do the OEC before you do the FEBC.


As part of the FEBC you do the Data Evaluators&#039; training, but you can also do the Data Evaluations training even before the OEC course.


OEC Course is the Green Vols 0 - 7
FEBC is the Management Series Volumes (3) and the FEBC Tapes (and a set of tapes called the ESTO Tapes)


for PR jobs, there&#039;s the PR Course (which is a whole long extensive course also), like for people like Mike Rinder when he was the PR guy for SCientology.   
 
Hubbard wanted all Sea Org officers at some distant time in their careers, to at least do the OEC and Class 8 Course.   Today that translates in Hubbard&#039;s wish that top execs do the whole above lineup, namely, OEC, FEBC, all training up to Class 8 (preferably Class 12 since when he wrote the order, Class 8 was the tops).


Naturally, if you are going to be the leaders of Scientology, you do the whole &quot;training lineup&quot; and it extends into Status Status 6 or 7, it&#039;s all listed in some Hubbard policy the whole training lineup for top executives of the movement.


Hubbard wrote a policy about how to put a person&#039;s Case Level and their Training Level following their name, as a way to designate their training and processing level value to the group.   


For instance, the Watchdog Committee Members were to be OEC. FEBC and at least Class 8.  


All Sea Org members are to get themselves in their study times, up the OT levels also.  That also just never happened.  


I don&#039;t think the movement today, there are more than 5 people who&#039;ve done it all, all properly.   John Eastment I think is one.   He&#039;s a Class 12 and I think he did he OEC/FEBC but I don&#039;t think he did the PR Course.   


It&#039;s unbelievably time consuming and time isn&#039;t really given to them to get it done, nor is there a push to get them fully trained on all that Hubbard wrote.   


In the mid 1980s there was an Int Base push to push the WDC and Exec Strata members to do their OECs and FEBCs, and a few got pretty close, one or two finished it all.   But they didn&#039;t get all the way through OT 8 and they had no chance in hell of getting to Class 12.


It does make sense, that the top execs in the movement ought to do ALL of the Hubbard training and for them to become Class 12s, but it is almost impossible as a goal when it comes to becoming a Class 12.   


Doing the OEC and FEBC and PR Course is easier than the red volumes training and all of the internships to become a real operational Class 12 auditor or Class 12 Case Supervisor.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-741097">J. Swift</a>.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s about 5 or 6 or 7 &#8220;Staff Statuses&#8221;.</p>
<p>You have to do the OEC before you do the FEBC.</p>
<p>As part of the FEBC you do the Data Evaluators&#8217; training, but you can also do the Data Evaluations training even before the OEC course.</p>
<p>OEC Course is the Green Vols 0 &#8211; 7<br />
FEBC is the Management Series Volumes (3) and the FEBC Tapes (and a set of tapes called the ESTO Tapes)</p>
<p>for PR jobs, there&#8217;s the PR Course (which is a whole long extensive course also), like for people like Mike Rinder when he was the PR guy for SCientology.   </p>
<p>Hubbard wanted all Sea Org officers at some distant time in their careers, to at least do the OEC and Class 8 Course.   Today that translates in Hubbard&#8217;s wish that top execs do the whole above lineup, namely, OEC, FEBC, all training up to Class 8 (preferably Class 12 since when he wrote the order, Class 8 was the tops).</p>
<p>Naturally, if you are going to be the leaders of Scientology, you do the whole &#8220;training lineup&#8221; and it extends into Status Status 6 or 7, it&#8217;s all listed in some Hubbard policy the whole training lineup for top executives of the movement.</p>
<p>Hubbard wrote a policy about how to put a person&#8217;s Case Level and their Training Level following their name, as a way to designate their training and processing level value to the group.   </p>
<p>For instance, the Watchdog Committee Members were to be OEC. FEBC and at least Class 8.  </p>
<p>All Sea Org members are to get themselves in their study times, up the OT levels also.  That also just never happened.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the movement today, there are more than 5 people who&#8217;ve done it all, all properly.   John Eastment I think is one.   He&#8217;s a Class 12 and I think he did he OEC/FEBC but I don&#8217;t think he did the PR Course.   </p>
<p>It&#8217;s unbelievably time consuming and time isn&#8217;t really given to them to get it done, nor is there a push to get them fully trained on all that Hubbard wrote.   </p>
<p>In the mid 1980s there was an Int Base push to push the WDC and Exec Strata members to do their OECs and FEBCs, and a few got pretty close, one or two finished it all.   But they didn&#8217;t get all the way through OT 8 and they had no chance in hell of getting to Class 12.</p>
<p>It does make sense, that the top execs in the movement ought to do ALL of the Hubbard training and for them to become Class 12s, but it is almost impossible as a goal when it comes to becoming a Class 12.   </p>
<p>Doing the OEC and FEBC and PR Course is easier than the red volumes training and all of the internships to become a real operational Class 12 auditor or Class 12 Case Supervisor.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nat-lificent		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-2/#comment-773524</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nat-lificent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2015 16:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-773524</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[test]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>test</p>
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		<title>
		By: Candy Swanson		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-747330</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Candy Swanson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2015 09:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-747330</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742998&quot;&gt;Truthiwant&lt;/a&gt;.

Truthiwant, I really doubt it ever worked &quot;inside the org&quot; or rather, inside the cult.  
The reason it seemed to work and still works for me is I refused to agree to the whole insane indoctrination.  Within the confines of the Church, I found both the training and delivery of the technology extremely evaluative and thoroughly invalidative regarding the liberty of the individual. 
At first, I extricated myself from the &#039;group think&#039; in 1970, when I read John McMasters&#039; letter of resignation from the Sea Org, sent to Ron and Mary Sue.  What finished me off, was this shocking experience was immediately followed by the letter to the IRS by MSH and LRH getting ACW and his very successful franchises into trouble.  WTF?  This is Scientology?  No way!  
It then took me three years to fully fade from being Yvonne&#039;s Celebrity Auditor, to adjust to delivering autonomously, fully independent from the Church.  I paid off a ludicrous Freeloader debt of $10,000 and was finally free, free at last, in 1973.

Thirty years later, I celebrated my full freedom by completing eight years at the University of Hawaii, earning a Masters Degree in Social Work with the concentration in Mental Health.
Aloha!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742998">Truthiwant</a>.</p>
<p>Truthiwant, I really doubt it ever worked &#8220;inside the org&#8221; or rather, inside the cult.<br />
The reason it seemed to work and still works for me is I refused to agree to the whole insane indoctrination.  Within the confines of the Church, I found both the training and delivery of the technology extremely evaluative and thoroughly invalidative regarding the liberty of the individual.<br />
At first, I extricated myself from the &#8216;group think&#8217; in 1970, when I read John McMasters&#8217; letter of resignation from the Sea Org, sent to Ron and Mary Sue.  What finished me off, was this shocking experience was immediately followed by the letter to the IRS by MSH and LRH getting ACW and his very successful franchises into trouble.  WTF?  This is Scientology?  No way!<br />
It then took me three years to fully fade from being Yvonne&#8217;s Celebrity Auditor, to adjust to delivering autonomously, fully independent from the Church.  I paid off a ludicrous Freeloader debt of $10,000 and was finally free, free at last, in 1973.</p>
<p>Thirty years later, I celebrated my full freedom by completing eight years at the University of Hawaii, earning a Masters Degree in Social Work with the concentration in Mental Health.<br />
Aloha!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Once_Born		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-743646</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Once_Born]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2015 20:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-743646</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742552&quot;&gt;daytoncapri&lt;/a&gt;.

I only know of Tyson from the new &quot;Cosmos&quot; series (which I watched online via http://watchseries.ag/serie/Cosmos:_A_SpaceTime_Odyssey  )

I initially thought he was a good presenter, and only later realised he was actually a real Scientist (an astrophysicist and cosmologist). Now, you tell me was a wrestler?! 

So much for the &#039;science geek&#039; stereotype.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742552">daytoncapri</a>.</p>
<p>I only know of Tyson from the new &#8220;Cosmos&#8221; series (which I watched online via <a href="http://watchseries.ag/serie/Cosmos:_A_SpaceTime_Odyssey" rel="nofollow ugc">http://watchseries.ag/serie/Cosmos:_A_SpaceTime_Odyssey</a>  )</p>
<p>I initially thought he was a good presenter, and only later realised he was actually a real Scientist (an astrophysicist and cosmologist). Now, you tell me was a wrestler?! </p>
<p>So much for the &#8216;science geek&#8217; stereotype.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Derek		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-743454</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Derek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2015 16:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-743454</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-741283&quot;&gt;sugarplumfairy&lt;/a&gt;.

Aw you are so sweet! I wish I could have made it, but I should have realized it would be sold out. It&#039;s only a 10 hour drive from here!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-741283">sugarplumfairy</a>.</p>
<p>Aw you are so sweet! I wish I could have made it, but I should have realized it would be sold out. It&#8217;s only a 10 hour drive from here!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Truthiwant		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742998</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Truthiwant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2015 09:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-742998</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742996&quot;&gt;califa007&lt;/a&gt;.

There is as much hypnotism in study tech as there is in auditing.
All Hubbard wanted was to make everybody think like him.
I didn&#039;t actually like Scientology, but I thought it could be useful to apply to my own work. However, I consistently found that it just did not work outside of the Org.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742996">califa007</a>.</p>
<p>There is as much hypnotism in study tech as there is in auditing.<br />
All Hubbard wanted was to make everybody think like him.<br />
I didn&#8217;t actually like Scientology, but I thought it could be useful to apply to my own work. However, I consistently found that it just did not work outside of the Org.</p>
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		<title>
		By: califa007		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742996</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[califa007]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2015 09:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-742996</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742967&quot;&gt;Truthiwant&lt;/a&gt;.

That&#039;s what I did since I had huge reservations about study tech before and all through Student Hat. For one thing, language is acquired through context - not too many 2- and 3- year olds walk around with a dictionary tucked in their diapers.  But looking up words unnecessarily actually impedes communication.  If I say &quot;she wore a mauve dress&quot; and you have no idea what color mauve is, it may or may not be important, depending on the situation.  Clearing a word can clarify nuances of usage but unless we&#039;re dealing with technical material it&#039;s frequently not necessary.  If I say my ex is a no-good, lazy, stupid, furwitten, scumbag, most people would guess that furwitten is not a good thing to be and get my message.  One of Hubbard&#039;s problems was his rigidity.  Sometimes a yawn is just a yawn!  I first got into Scientology because he seemed to have a little Freud, a little Jung, some Carl Rogers, some Maslow, some Gardner, etc., etc.  I didn&#039;t know that he hated psychologists.  I thought that maybe he was able to synthesize the gist of various schools of psychology into some sort of cohesive system - that maybe he was on to something.  The first &quot;service&quot; I did was the Basic Books &#038; Lectures.  It was the most frustrating experience of my life - not being able to ask questions or ask for clarification when statements were clearly contradictory or, heaven forbid, defied legitimate research.    Sorry, Truth, for ranting on.  I just hated, hated, hated  Student Hat even more than the Basics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742967">Truthiwant</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I did since I had huge reservations about study tech before and all through Student Hat. For one thing, language is acquired through context &#8211; not too many 2- and 3- year olds walk around with a dictionary tucked in their diapers.  But looking up words unnecessarily actually impedes communication.  If I say &#8220;she wore a mauve dress&#8221; and you have no idea what color mauve is, it may or may not be important, depending on the situation.  Clearing a word can clarify nuances of usage but unless we&#8217;re dealing with technical material it&#8217;s frequently not necessary.  If I say my ex is a no-good, lazy, stupid, furwitten, scumbag, most people would guess that furwitten is not a good thing to be and get my message.  One of Hubbard&#8217;s problems was his rigidity.  Sometimes a yawn is just a yawn!  I first got into Scientology because he seemed to have a little Freud, a little Jung, some Carl Rogers, some Maslow, some Gardner, etc., etc.  I didn&#8217;t know that he hated psychologists.  I thought that maybe he was able to synthesize the gist of various schools of psychology into some sort of cohesive system &#8211; that maybe he was on to something.  The first &#8220;service&#8221; I did was the Basic Books &amp; Lectures.  It was the most frustrating experience of my life &#8211; not being able to ask questions or ask for clarification when statements were clearly contradictory or, heaven forbid, defied legitimate research.    Sorry, Truth, for ranting on.  I just hated, hated, hated  Student Hat even more than the Basics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Truthiwant		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742967</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Truthiwant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2015 07:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-742967</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742959&quot;&gt;califa007&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, sometimes, but more often we went along with Hubbard&#039;s study tech, in that, being caught up in the mind-frame, we believed in the misunderstood word theory.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742959">califa007</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, sometimes, but more often we went along with Hubbard&#8217;s study tech, in that, being caught up in the mind-frame, we believed in the misunderstood word theory.</p>
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		<title>
		By: califa007		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742960</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[califa007]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2015 07:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-742960</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-740772&quot;&gt;Anonymous&lt;/a&gt;.

I was  sent to Ethics for &quot;Joking and Degrading&quot; when I told the Word Clearer that the word Hubbard used was not an actual word, that he had placed &quot;re&quot; in front of an actual word just to emphasize that he was angry and meant what he was saying.  She sent me to Ethics even though she could not find his word in the dictionary!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-740772">Anonymous</a>.</p>
<p>I was  sent to Ethics for &#8220;Joking and Degrading&#8221; when I told the Word Clearer that the word Hubbard used was not an actual word, that he had placed &#8220;re&#8221; in front of an actual word just to emphasize that he was angry and meant what he was saying.  She sent me to Ethics even though she could not find his word in the dictionary!</p>
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		<title>
		By: califa007		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-742959</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[califa007]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2015 07:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=19497#comment-742959</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-740714&quot;&gt;Truthiwant&lt;/a&gt;.

Yeah, but didn&#039;t you quickly learn to go back just a paragraph or so and pick any old word at random so you didn&#039;t have too much to reread?  Well, not just any old word; you wouldn&#039;t want to pick any of those &quot;simple&quot; words with 20 different meanings or you&#039;d be stuck word clearing all day.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2015/01/20/scientologys-first-clear-l-ron-hubbard-intended-to-return-as-his-daughter-dianas-son/comment-page-1/#comment-740714">Truthiwant</a>.</p>
<p>Yeah, but didn&#8217;t you quickly learn to go back just a paragraph or so and pick any old word at random so you didn&#8217;t have too much to reread?  Well, not just any old word; you wouldn&#8217;t want to pick any of those &#8220;simple&#8221; words with 20 different meanings or you&#8217;d be stuck word clearing all day.</p>
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