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	Comments on: More L. Ron Hubbard history that Scientology has done its best to disappear	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: kmadelyn		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-690340</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kmadelyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2014 14:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-690340</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675134&quot;&gt;Vistaril&lt;/a&gt;.

Why isn&#039;t there an LRH Poetry Prize? At the very least one of the Scientology festivals should celebrate the muscular verse &#038; manly prose of our planetary Savior in a Hubbardian Literature Competition. This neglect is particularly glaring, as pastiches are a beloved tradition in the realm of genre fiction. Captain Miscavige really dropped the ball on this one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675134">Vistaril</a>.</p>
<p>Why isn&#8217;t there an LRH Poetry Prize? At the very least one of the Scientology festivals should celebrate the muscular verse &amp; manly prose of our planetary Savior in a Hubbardian Literature Competition. This neglect is particularly glaring, as pastiches are a beloved tradition in the realm of genre fiction. Captain Miscavige really dropped the ball on this one.</p>
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		<title>
		By: FOTF2012		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-676756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FOTF2012]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2014 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-676756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I came across something interesting about the likes of Hubbard and our own human nature that I wanted to share:

&quot;But it [the male myth] is always there at hand because we need it if we are to avoid confronting our own self, which fills us with fear. How else can we explain the fact that again and again we submit to those very people who, personifying the epitome of strength and domination, demand the greatest self-sacrifice of us? Nothing evokes a messianic atmosphere -- a feeling of sanctity -- more than subordination to a &quot;higher&quot; cause. The call to shed one&#039;s blood for God, for nation, or for an idea elicits feelings of inner purity, the exhilaration of absolute &quot;love,&quot; the intoxication of virtuous self-love. Why is it that we never recognize until later, when the episode has gone down in history, that here was a case of subjection to a powerful madman? Often the best among us are involved, those who want to be free, who forsake everything dear to them. They turn against their own principles and their own feelings when a dictator, Fuehrer, &quot;spiritual leader,&quot; prime minister, or duce summons them to battle -- and they feel ennobled. What does this virtuous feeling of sanctity have to do with the true self? Why do we men -- and many women -- repeatedly behave like sheep, especially when confronted with those who most despise, dominate, oppress, and destroy us? Why does obeying them make us feel so good? Why does it release us from the anxiety and uneasiness of having a self of our own, from having to take responsibility for ourselves? 
...

&quot;The oppressor frees us from our secret self-contempt by his contempt for us. How else does a Stalin become a father figure, a Hitler a flawless god?&quot;


(From chapter on &quot;Salvation and Sanctity,&quot; in &quot;The Betrayal of the Self: The Fear of Autonomy in Men and Women,&quot; by Arno Gruen, pp. 81-82, from 2007 reprint of the 1988 work.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came across something interesting about the likes of Hubbard and our own human nature that I wanted to share:</p>
<p>&#8220;But it [the male myth] is always there at hand because we need it if we are to avoid confronting our own self, which fills us with fear. How else can we explain the fact that again and again we submit to those very people who, personifying the epitome of strength and domination, demand the greatest self-sacrifice of us? Nothing evokes a messianic atmosphere &#8212; a feeling of sanctity &#8212; more than subordination to a &#8220;higher&#8221; cause. The call to shed one&#8217;s blood for God, for nation, or for an idea elicits feelings of inner purity, the exhilaration of absolute &#8220;love,&#8221; the intoxication of virtuous self-love. Why is it that we never recognize until later, when the episode has gone down in history, that here was a case of subjection to a powerful madman? Often the best among us are involved, those who want to be free, who forsake everything dear to them. They turn against their own principles and their own feelings when a dictator, Fuehrer, &#8220;spiritual leader,&#8221; prime minister, or duce summons them to battle &#8212; and they feel ennobled. What does this virtuous feeling of sanctity have to do with the true self? Why do we men &#8212; and many women &#8212; repeatedly behave like sheep, especially when confronted with those who most despise, dominate, oppress, and destroy us? Why does obeying them make us feel so good? Why does it release us from the anxiety and uneasiness of having a self of our own, from having to take responsibility for ourselves?<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;The oppressor frees us from our secret self-contempt by his contempt for us. How else does a Stalin become a father figure, a Hitler a flawless god?&#8221;</p>
<p>(From chapter on &#8220;Salvation and Sanctity,&#8221; in &#8220;The Betrayal of the Self: The Fear of Autonomy in Men and Women,&#8221; by Arno Gruen, pp. 81-82, from 2007 reprint of the 1988 work.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: media_lush		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-676365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[media_lush]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-676365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-676361&quot;&gt;Barbara Angel&lt;/a&gt;.

Disqus is pretty fecked up right now IMO.... see new Tony post and my comments there... they hate the &#039;a&#039; word... in the mean time have a look at http://www.vice.com/read/we-asked-a-philosophy-professor-to-translate-that-jaden-and-willow-interview-118  ... good stuff; anyway I&#039;m off to bed!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-676361">Barbara Angel</a>.</p>
<p>Disqus is pretty fecked up right now IMO&#8230;. see new Tony post and my comments there&#8230; they hate the &#8216;a&#8217; word&#8230; in the mean time have a look at <a href="http://www.vice.com/read/we-asked-a-philosophy-professor-to-translate-that-jaden-and-willow-interview-118" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.vice.com/read/we-asked-a-philosophy-professor-to-translate-that-jaden-and-willow-interview-118</a>  &#8230; good stuff; anyway I&#8217;m off to bed!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barbara Angel		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-676361</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barbara Angel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-676361</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675619&quot;&gt;media_lush&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;ve tried to post on dlisted with my disqus account as it accepts disqus, unfortunately it says email address must be verified, eight attempts later at waiting for the verification email, nothing has happened. Wanted to leave the post below* but can&#039;t find a way to post. Really wanted people to Google Jenna&#039;s book, but best not to attempt posting links, many sites won&#039;t allow posts with links. The more average people who begin to inform themselves about the chult the better. Food for thought...but no way to spread it. Using &#039;chult&#039; for church of Scientology cult was sure to slip under the radar. But no verification email opportunity = no opportunity at all. Imagine all the teens who decide to emulate these two poor little fuckers, bet they couldn&#039;t write a sentence without spell check, sad huh.   

* &quot;These poor little kids, raised in the chult of $ciontology are doomed. $cilon children do not receive a proper education and unless their parent&#039;s are celebrities, they work an eight to ten hour day doing hard physical labour, which can include cleaning toilets with a tooth brush. Google Jenna Miscavige Hill and see what its like to be a child in that &#039;chult&#039;. Would be interesting to see what would happen if these two were given pen and paper and actually asked to write something. Odds are that neither of them will even be able to pass basic spelling levels. Worse still is that in $cilon land a, &#039;ness&#039; is added to most words i.e. beingness, feelingness, knowingness etc...
The future of these two poor kids is an unenviable one&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675619">media_lush</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tried to post on dlisted with my disqus account as it accepts disqus, unfortunately it says email address must be verified, eight attempts later at waiting for the verification email, nothing has happened. Wanted to leave the post below* but can&#8217;t find a way to post. Really wanted people to Google Jenna&#8217;s book, but best not to attempt posting links, many sites won&#8217;t allow posts with links. The more average people who begin to inform themselves about the chult the better. Food for thought&#8230;but no way to spread it. Using &#8216;chult&#8217; for church of Scientology cult was sure to slip under the radar. But no verification email opportunity = no opportunity at all. Imagine all the teens who decide to emulate these two poor little fuckers, bet they couldn&#8217;t write a sentence without spell check, sad huh.   </p>
<p>* &#8220;These poor little kids, raised in the chult of $ciontology are doomed. $cilon children do not receive a proper education and unless their parent&#8217;s are celebrities, they work an eight to ten hour day doing hard physical labour, which can include cleaning toilets with a tooth brush. Google Jenna Miscavige Hill and see what its like to be a child in that &#8216;chult&#8217;. Would be interesting to see what would happen if these two were given pen and paper and actually asked to write something. Odds are that neither of them will even be able to pass basic spelling levels. Worse still is that in $cilon land a, &#8216;ness&#8217; is added to most words i.e. beingness, feelingness, knowingness etc&#8230;<br />
The future of these two poor kids is an unenviable one&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lady Squash		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-676254</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lady Squash]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-676254</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675624&quot;&gt;Tony Ortega&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for replying Tony.  I appreciate it.  I have no idea how you get done all that you do.  You are amazing.  I read your blog every night.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675624">Tony Ortega</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for replying Tony.  I appreciate it.  I have no idea how you get done all that you do.  You are amazing.  I read your blog every night.</p>
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		<title>
		By: richelieu jr		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-676162</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richelieu jr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-676162</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675290&quot;&gt;Robert Eckert&lt;/a&gt;.

Wait-- that reminds me-- The 47th of December is hen I&#039;m scheduled to take that personality test and join the SeaBorg!

Thanks guys, I&#039;d hate to miss an opportunity like that! The fate of the world hangs in the balance!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675290">Robert Eckert</a>.</p>
<p>Wait&#8211; that reminds me&#8211; The 47th of December is hen I&#8217;m scheduled to take that personality test and join the SeaBorg!</p>
<p>Thanks guys, I&#8217;d hate to miss an opportunity like that! The fate of the world hangs in the balance!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675886</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-675886</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675882&quot;&gt;Skip Press&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks. Funny that Hubbard never mentioned anything about his dad or mother. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675882">Skip Press</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks. Funny that Hubbard never mentioned anything about his dad or mother. </p>
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		By: Skip Press		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skip Press]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-675882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675881&quot;&gt;Bob&lt;/a&gt;.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&#038;GRid=97488275]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675881">Bob</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&#038;GRid=97488275" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&#038;GRid=97488275</a></p>
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		By: Bob		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-675881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675872&quot;&gt;Skip Press&lt;/a&gt;.

Did not know Hubbard had a dad. It&#039;s probably a good thing Ron couldn&#039;t get it up or it would have been one more thing to hide. Statutory rape.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675872">Skip Press</a>.</p>
<p>Did not know Hubbard had a dad. It&#8217;s probably a good thing Ron couldn&#8217;t get it up or it would have been one more thing to hide. Statutory rape.</p>
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		By: Skip Press		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skip Press]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=17958#comment-675872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675730&quot;&gt;Bob&lt;/a&gt;.

Titallating, maybe. I don&#039;t think at that point the old creep could get it up. But the messengers did impress his dad, Harry Ross Hubbard, when he visited the ship. Like lecher, like son.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/11/17/more-l-ron-hubbard-history-scientology-has-done-its-best-to-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-675730">Bob</a>.</p>
<p>Titallating, maybe. I don&#8217;t think at that point the old creep could get it up. But the messengers did impress his dad, Harry Ross Hubbard, when he visited the ship. Like lecher, like son.</p>
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