But

What about those poor devils that have been born into this cult and know nothing else then the Scientology life. That slave away at SeaOrg 20 hours a day for pennies.

I’d like to know from former Scientologists and were born into it. How can I a reach them if I ever encounter them on the street. What can I planet in their minds so that one day they’ll blow the joint and into freedom? Is there anything I can say or plant in their thoughts?

Ok. See you around.

It really is quite silly to be having this discussion like two old drunks in a back alley, on the wrong side of town, at night, as no one else is ever going to read this or care.

So I’m going to drop out at this point from this thread…it is not adding any value to my understanding of Scientology and it’s malevolent influences, nor will it add to the understanding of others, due to the days old aged invisibility of the comment thread.

I will close with this: the forwarding of malevolent intent can be both knowing and unknowing. That reality is at the absolute heart of the the understanding of the fields of intelligence, propaganda, PR and statecraft. I’m well versed in all four fields and see what I see. I stand by all the comments I have made earlier…your mocking / confused paraphrasing and deliberate misunderstandings aside.

“unknowingly being played as expendable dupes”

So David Miscavige is pulling my strings at a distance with his mighty OT powazz? (Or standing right behind me? BOO!) I am unknowingly PTS to OSA and the Squirrel Busters? And Hubbard was right about that third-party claptrap? Ok, got it. (… backs away)

“Please do “make up your own mind” about Globetrotter. I care not.”

I wasn’t actually asking for your permission. Or to care. But thanks.

“But don’t think for one second that your post created even the slightest chance that I will storm off and quit. You aren’t even close to capable of causing that.”

Yes, that’s exactly what I said. Thanks for confirming it. That’s one more subject on which we agree. If you left, it would be a real loss, since you actually make a substantial contribution here, and you appear to have real insider experience to back it up.

“Your allegation that her departure was deliberately provoked is false.”

“The third-party “law” was invented by Hubbard so that he could shift blame to third parties for whatever was wrong with Scientology.”

“Your use of these words suggests that you’re not yet entirely free of the Hubbard implant.”

All of these statements are nonsense. But nice try.

As with most things in Scientology, the Third Party Law was forwarded as a “warning” to Scientologists by Mankind’s Greatest Friend, but in fact was used RELENTLESSLY against them in Ethics and by the GO / OSA. There is extensive confidential church training on how to use the tech of third party to sow confusion and discord among church “enemies” and critics, as you should well know.

What do you think is happening when non-enturbulation orders, disconnection orders,” Industry of Death” crusades, SP hate websites, Squirrel Buster raids (et al.) are activated? That is all third-party tech, turned on it’s ear.

Lastly, one does not have to be a knowing player in a particular role where third-party tech is employed to create discord. Almost all successful GO / OSA op’s are / were facilitated (in part) by people who had no idea whatsoever that they were unwitting participants in a larger, usually confidential drama. In many cases the participants thought they were furthering a laudable purpose (like being reasonable about BS) when in fact they were unknowingly being played as expendable dupes.

I’ll suggest that it is YOU who is “not free of the implants.”

Is that by choice or accident?

And by the way…I would have bet many millions of dollars that you would eventually pop out of lurk mode and “confront” me with something like you wrote above. I’m quite aware of patterns on this board and elsewhere…bullshit detection is really not that hard.

Please do “make up your own mind” about Globetrotter. I care not.

But don’t think for one second that your post created even the slightest chance that I will “storm off and quit.”

You aren’t even close to capable of causing that.

Hi, Anonymous. What you say about Sea Org recruiting deserves to be more widely known. I don’t recall hearing of that LA exploitation incident before you mentioned it here. A few facts have leaked out about the human trafficking such as the example you mention at Flag, but a full expose is needed. It seems to be a systematic practice in the Sea Org, affecting quite a few people who are prevented from speaking for themselves, but only isolated incidents have gotten public attention.

“someone coming to the defense of Globtrotter is EXACTLY the sort third-party ill-will that the church seeks to instillI… The EXACT same thing just happened here last week and a long term commenter on this blog got furious and left for good. That event was deliberately provoked.”

Are you referring to the recent incident with “And I don’t rent cars,” “Ethics Officer,” and me? I think Cars is taking some time off for her own reasons, and I hope she’ll soon feel ready to rejoin us, maybe under a new identity if that’s what she wants to do. She was trying to do an intervention on Ethics Officer, to straighten him out — a quest that was doomed to fail anyway since trolls and freezoners come with really thick armor. She was deeply emotionally invested in the success of this plan, which emerged from back-channel conversations that I did not know about. When I pointed out that banning Ethics Officer was Tony’s prerogative, not hers, Cars felt sabotaged, had a meltdown, picked up her toys and ran home. Her reaction was a complete surprise to me. I had expected that Cars would carry on but hopefully dial back on the part about telling people they must “leave this board and never come back.” I’m sorry that I upset her, but I don’t see that I did anything wrong. Your allegation that her departure was deliberately provoked is false.

The third-party “law” was invented by Hubbard so that he could shift blame to third parties for whatever was wrong with Scientology. Hubbard hated “Q&A” and “reasonableness” because he wanted instant compliance to his orders and programs with no questioning or backtalk. To keep Scientologists working, they are trained in Hubbard’s PTS/SP theories, the third-party “law,” and unreasonableness. Your use of these words suggests that you’re not yet entirely free of the Hubbard implant.

Anonymous, your lucid and insightful posts have earned immense respect, as I told Globetrotter when he was making accusations against you elsewhere in this thread. Although I respect you very much and value your opinion, I am going to make up my own mind about Globetrotter. And if you storm off and quit because of something I post, I’ll be really disappointed.

Haha Hey Jon.. That Baby Ronnie and his Kool..

You know ” Not smoking enough causes Lung cancer..” blah, blah
You are one of the heros in this freakin saga..

I want to give you a big SMOOOOOOOOTCH…. OOps pardon my cigarette..xo Baby

Jon – I respect your views and value your opinions. However you do not hold all of the information about Scientology.

I personally witnessed a very large, fairly long-term Sea Org recruitment effort in LA aimed at very poor, non-English speaking immigrants who were brought aboard, then enslaved for several months at a time doing brutal, menial manual labor, then expelled and dumped back on the streets without as much as a thank you. I saw it with my own incredulous eyes.

That is but one example of such behavior. The people recruited were barely above the level of homeless when approached. That you (or “Globetrotter”) did not personally witness this, does not mean it did not happen. Neither of you ever met Abraham Lincoln, but I doubt either of you would assert that means the man never existed.

There are many more recent reports of crew at FLAG, especially in the housekeeping and other manual labor posts, being heavily populated by non-English speaking, recent, East European immigrants. That is not by accident and those people did not join the Sea Org under honest inducement or because they had great lives where they previously lived. They are in many cases barely literate and are utterly lost in the US…by design.

Not sure how much of this thread you read or how much of the subtle disparagement Globetrotter was slinging with his comments, because of the way the thread was mis-mashed over time by Disqus, which confused the original placement and context of his remarks. I called him out for good reason.

You are a smart guy…I like what you write and say. But I stand by what I wrote, especially in the context of other recent events that are not recorded here.

And I’ll add that someone coming to the defense of Globtrotter is EXACTLY the sort of third-party ill-will that the church seeks to instill between it’s critics with the same sort of subtle, “reasonable” sounding mudslinging.

The EXACT same thing just happened here last week and a long term commenter on this blog got furious and left for good. That event was deliberately provoked. Please consider the possibility…it is hardly the first time this has occurred here, or on other sites.

Keep up the good work – I do enjoy your viewpoints and information.

I’m a Brit! And I’d love to know how to ‘irradicate’ something – eradicating it by radiation, maybe? But, yes, Scientology was just a few thousand people until the Victorian State Inquiry put it on the map – followed by panic reactions throughout the English speaking world and enough of a media show to up recruitment into the tens of thousands. I doubt that there have ever been more than 100,000 active members. As the UK survey showed, there are just over 2000 people here who professed Scn as there faith in the 2011 Census. But many people have heard about it, and that was the case even before South Park. It has always surprised me that the majority of people have some knowledge of it. I’m happy to say that they usually have it tagged as something bad.

I interviewed a member of the vaunted Watchdog Committee, some years ago (while it was still the governing body). He was 19. He grew up in the SO in the UK, but at 14, after achieving a high rank in the CMO, he went to Flag for the Executive Briefing Course, because he saw that Policy was not being applied at St Hill. He was disappointed to find that matters were even worse at Flag, so transferred to CMO Int at Gilman. There he found that no Policy was applied – just orders from ‘advices’. The myth of the golden age runs through human culture, and, as you say, members hold onto the notion that everything is perfect when you get to the top. I witnessed a former Hubbard aide giving a ‘severe reality adjustment’. When I asked where it was written to act in this way, he burst into tears, and explained that this humiliating (and indeed suppressive) way of treating people was learned when Hubbard did it to him and others. And, yes, all of that blue sky…