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	Comments on: A lawsuit over counseling credentials now aims at the essence of Scientology	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: Missionary Kid		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-599672</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Missionary Kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2014 07:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-599672</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-599575&quot;&gt;Jane&lt;/a&gt;.

Often times, people don&#039;t thoroughly read what they cite as evidence or put it into context.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-599575">Jane</a>.</p>
<p>Often times, people don&#8217;t thoroughly read what they cite as evidence or put it into context.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jane		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-599575</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2014 23:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-599575</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598583&quot;&gt;Missionary Kid&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks.  We have recorded delivery, and I have used that for most letters since it became apparent that some letters were being ignored.  We battle on!  Interestingly in the &#039;harassment&#039; issue the police maintained when I put them under pressure that the letter they gave me saying &#039;you have committed acts which you know or should know are harassing&#039; didn&#039;t actually MEAN I had already done anything harassing - just that I shouldn&#039;t in the future.  By the end of the complaints process they gave two examples of harassment (the police guidelines say they need to give 2 specific examples of separate incidents - both the examples they gave came from the same letter.  One was part of a sentence I wrote in a letter telling my contact that I believed someone was using scientology tech on them without their knowledge.  The other was a photocopy of an advert I found in a scientology &#039;hatting&#039; manual I got 2ndhand on ebay which gave credence to my suspicion that a lifecoach or similar was using scientology tech on my contact.  The advert was for a course which claimed it was &#039;the ultimate dissemination tool&#039; and would teach the student &#039;how to make a person into a scientologist without mentioning scientology&#039;.  Now I wonder why the IPCC (but not local cops) reckoned that that was harassment?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598583">Missionary Kid</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks.  We have recorded delivery, and I have used that for most letters since it became apparent that some letters were being ignored.  We battle on!  Interestingly in the &#8216;harassment&#8217; issue the police maintained when I put them under pressure that the letter they gave me saying &#8216;you have committed acts which you know or should know are harassing&#8217; didn&#8217;t actually MEAN I had already done anything harassing &#8211; just that I shouldn&#8217;t in the future.  By the end of the complaints process they gave two examples of harassment (the police guidelines say they need to give 2 specific examples of separate incidents &#8211; both the examples they gave came from the same letter.  One was part of a sentence I wrote in a letter telling my contact that I believed someone was using scientology tech on them without their knowledge.  The other was a photocopy of an advert I found in a scientology &#8216;hatting&#8217; manual I got 2ndhand on ebay which gave credence to my suspicion that a lifecoach or similar was using scientology tech on my contact.  The advert was for a course which claimed it was &#8216;the ultimate dissemination tool&#8217; and would teach the student &#8216;how to make a person into a scientologist without mentioning scientology&#8217;.  Now I wonder why the IPCC (but not local cops) reckoned that that was harassment?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Missionary Kid		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598583</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Missionary Kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2014 09:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-598583</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598566&quot;&gt;Jane&lt;/a&gt;.

Mail that is received by them usually has to be time stamped and a record of it is made.  It is something that can be pointed to in the future.

Make a note of when you sent it, and to whom.  Here in the U.S., we have registered mail, return receipt requested, where someone has to sign for it.  That puts another piece of documentation of their receipt of such a letter.  That way it makes it much harder for them to &quot;lose&quot; such a letter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598566">Jane</a>.</p>
<p>Mail that is received by them usually has to be time stamped and a record of it is made.  It is something that can be pointed to in the future.</p>
<p>Make a note of when you sent it, and to whom.  Here in the U.S., we have registered mail, return receipt requested, where someone has to sign for it.  That puts another piece of documentation of their receipt of such a letter.  That way it makes it much harder for them to &#8220;lose&#8221; such a letter.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jane		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598566</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2014 07:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-598566</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598451&quot;&gt;Missionary Kid&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks, good idea.  Yes I&#039;ve got various other similar letters to write.  Don&#039;t know if you&#039;re aware that there&#039;s lots of seriously bad stuff that&#039;s been buried a long long time coming to light in the UK.  eg a disaster where a lot of people were crushed by crowds pushing forward at a football game.  The police blamed it on them all being drunk and disorderly - now come to light the police ignored usual routines and were trying to get crowds outside in too quickly. Also various stuff about pedophiles in top levels of showbiz and the govt.  I could lodge complaints about the writers of various reports whitewashing stuff, and also need to write to people spelling out i one syllable what they are sweeping under the carpet so they can&#039;t say they didn&#039;t realise how serious it is!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598451">Missionary Kid</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks, good idea.  Yes I&#8217;ve got various other similar letters to write.  Don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re aware that there&#8217;s lots of seriously bad stuff that&#8217;s been buried a long long time coming to light in the UK.  eg a disaster where a lot of people were crushed by crowds pushing forward at a football game.  The police blamed it on them all being drunk and disorderly &#8211; now come to light the police ignored usual routines and were trying to get crowds outside in too quickly. Also various stuff about pedophiles in top levels of showbiz and the govt.  I could lodge complaints about the writers of various reports whitewashing stuff, and also need to write to people spelling out i one syllable what they are sweeping under the carpet so they can&#8217;t say they didn&#8217;t realise how serious it is!!!</p>
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		By: Missionary Kid		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598451</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Missionary Kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-598451</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598449&quot;&gt;Jane&lt;/a&gt;.

Sounds like you&#039;ve done just about everything you could.


It might or might not be a good thing to send a letter to the IPCC with a copy of the records obtained through your MP, along with a copy of any correspondence with your MP.  That way, they&#039;d be, in essence, put on notice.  If it&#039;s one thing that bureaucracies hate is paper.  I would also include your previous correspondence with them.  The hypocrisy will be evident.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598449">Jane</a>.</p>
<p>Sounds like you&#8217;ve done just about everything you could.</p>
<p>It might or might not be a good thing to send a letter to the IPCC with a copy of the records obtained through your MP, along with a copy of any correspondence with your MP.  That way, they&#8217;d be, in essence, put on notice.  If it&#8217;s one thing that bureaucracies hate is paper.  I would also include your previous correspondence with them.  The hypocrisy will be evident.</p>
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		By: Jane		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-598449</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2014 23:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-598449</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-597115&quot;&gt;Missionary Kid&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks very much.  Did go to the top.  The IPCC is the national body responsible for pursuing complaints about the police.  They prevaricated saying they couldn&#039;t give me copies of records of my personal data (contra the Data Protection Act) so I went through my MP (like an American congressman) and he got the records.....which proved I was right and police were wrong.  We have tried many reporters.  In touch with John Sweeney.  Also tried a fellow Cambridge alumnus who is an editor of a national newspaper.  When I mentioned scientology he said &#039;good or bad?&#039;.  When I said bad he couldn&#039;t get away fast enough.  The Press in the UK is far far far more restricted than in the USA.  That is one reason why I say that scientology has a much tighter grip in the UK than anyone realises.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-597115">Missionary Kid</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks very much.  Did go to the top.  The IPCC is the national body responsible for pursuing complaints about the police.  They prevaricated saying they couldn&#8217;t give me copies of records of my personal data (contra the Data Protection Act) so I went through my MP (like an American congressman) and he got the records&#8230;..which proved I was right and police were wrong.  We have tried many reporters.  In touch with John Sweeney.  Also tried a fellow Cambridge alumnus who is an editor of a national newspaper.  When I mentioned scientology he said &#8216;good or bad?&#8217;.  When I said bad he couldn&#8217;t get away fast enough.  The Press in the UK is far far far more restricted than in the USA.  That is one reason why I say that scientology has a much tighter grip in the UK than anyone realises.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Missionary Kid		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-597115</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Missionary Kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2014 07:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-597115</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-596854&quot;&gt;Jane&lt;/a&gt;.

That&#039;s when you go to the top (highest administrator in the police dept., and have them contact the phone company themselves to verify your proof.  Publicity helps, if you can get the ear of a reporter.  The approach is, &quot;I have a problem, and maybe you can help me.  I will consent to have my records examined by you.  The key is to sound them out about their knowledge of Co$ and to make sure that they have little or none  friendship with Co$.



Citing LRH&#039;s policies about fair game is always a way of explaining your adversary.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-596854">Jane</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s when you go to the top (highest administrator in the police dept., and have them contact the phone company themselves to verify your proof.  Publicity helps, if you can get the ear of a reporter.  The approach is, &#8220;I have a problem, and maybe you can help me.  I will consent to have my records examined by you.  The key is to sound them out about their knowledge of Co$ and to make sure that they have little or none  friendship with Co$.</p>
<p>Citing LRH&#8217;s policies about fair game is always a way of explaining your adversary.</p>
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		By: Jane		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-596854</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-596854</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595146&quot;&gt;Missionary Kid&lt;/a&gt;.

We&#039;re in the UK.  That&#039;s exactly what our experience was - police clearly having been given such a clear idea that they are incapable of common sense.  eg When the police came to inform me I was apparently harassing the person mentioned above (ie I was asking he and his wife to stop ringing police etc around where my mother lives and telling lies to stir up s**t) I said I could easily prove I hadn&#039;t texted and phoned them because I had all the itemised phone bills for the number they told me I was using.  When it showed that I had made NO CONTACTS during a particular time period in question the policeman told me my phone bill was wrong (ie that the phone company had not recorded or charged me for thousands of texts and calls I had allegedly made).  Unfortunately it&#039;s still going on although the police involvement tailed off after I made so many complaints.  Brother was eventually arrested.  Did you know that in the UK a secret civil court can sentence you (for I think) up to 2 weeks in prison without your knowledge or presence?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595146">Missionary Kid</a>.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re in the UK.  That&#8217;s exactly what our experience was &#8211; police clearly having been given such a clear idea that they are incapable of common sense.  eg When the police came to inform me I was apparently harassing the person mentioned above (ie I was asking he and his wife to stop ringing police etc around where my mother lives and telling lies to stir up s**t) I said I could easily prove I hadn&#8217;t texted and phoned them because I had all the itemised phone bills for the number they told me I was using.  When it showed that I had made NO CONTACTS during a particular time period in question the policeman told me my phone bill was wrong (ie that the phone company had not recorded or charged me for thousands of texts and calls I had allegedly made).  Unfortunately it&#8217;s still going on although the police involvement tailed off after I made so many complaints.  Brother was eventually arrested.  Did you know that in the UK a secret civil court can sentence you (for I think) up to 2 weeks in prison without your knowledge or presence?</p>
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		By: Missionary Kid		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595146</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Missionary Kid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2014 23:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-595146</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595138&quot;&gt;Jane&lt;/a&gt;.

It sure sounds like an all out fair game witch hunt on their part.

How long ago did this occur, and in what country?  (You don&#039;t have to be exact or answer any of my questions).  

The whole reason that clams get involved with police in different projects is so that they have personal contacts.  The police are sure that since they&#039;ve been befriended by the clam that he&#039;s a good guy, and they&#039;re willing to help them out.  It&#039;s corruption by &lt;strike&gt;friendship&lt;/strike&gt; co-option.  After they&#039;ve been told what an evil person the fair game target is, they&#039;re willing to pull shit like that.

Was your mother harassed after that?

Police protect their own.  Did the police ever arrest your brother?

I hope that was all in the distant past.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595138">Jane</a>.</p>
<p>It sure sounds like an all out fair game witch hunt on their part.</p>
<p>How long ago did this occur, and in what country?  (You don&#8217;t have to be exact or answer any of my questions).  </p>
<p>The whole reason that clams get involved with police in different projects is so that they have personal contacts.  The police are sure that since they&#8217;ve been befriended by the clam that he&#8217;s a good guy, and they&#8217;re willing to help them out.  It&#8217;s corruption by <strike>friendship</strike> co-option.  After they&#8217;ve been told what an evil person the fair game target is, they&#8217;re willing to pull shit like that.</p>
<p>Was your mother harassed after that?</p>
<p>Police protect their own.  Did the police ever arrest your brother?</p>
<p>I hope that was all in the distant past.</p>
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		By: Jane		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2014 23:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=15925#comment-595138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595095&quot;&gt;Missionary Kid&lt;/a&gt;.

Four policemen (ie no women) turn up at my 81 year old mother&#039;s extremely isolated farmhouse where she lives alone at 11pm claiming to be looking for my brother (who wasn&#039;t there and hadn&#039;t been there for some time).  No arrest warrant shown, and when he saw it later the address was a place about 40 miles away.  (NB The police response to my complaint listed three separate locations as alleged addresses on the warrant so clearly there was considerable confusion about which address they did go to.)  She asks for ID.  One shows it.  Two then force their way in, only one having shown ID..  They examine closely the paperwork on her table but make no attempt whatsoever to look for a person.  When we make a complaint, the police repeatedly insist &#039;we know he&#039;s a policeman but we don&#039;t know who it is&#039; and when asked to produce photos to ascertain ID &#039;you can trust us to get the right person&#039; - even though they didn&#039;t know names!  Eventually I force them to bring photos to the interview.  Three are clear and easily identified by my mother.  The fourth is separate from the others, fuzzy, and dark but nevertheless she says it was definitely not like the one who entered who would not show ID when asked.  Some weeks later we come across the name of an officer who is involved with the group who had been fairgaming my brother and discover (from someone who knows him) his description EXACTLY matches the description my mother gave of the mystery officer.  However the police said he could not have been present because he was off duty..........We took the complaint all the way through the complaints process.  My only consolation is that I now have names of people who covered up the corruption.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2014/07/24/a-lawsuit-over-counseling-credentials-now-aims-at-the-essence-of-scientology/comment-page-2/#comment-595095">Missionary Kid</a>.</p>
<p>Four policemen (ie no women) turn up at my 81 year old mother&#8217;s extremely isolated farmhouse where she lives alone at 11pm claiming to be looking for my brother (who wasn&#8217;t there and hadn&#8217;t been there for some time).  No arrest warrant shown, and when he saw it later the address was a place about 40 miles away.  (NB The police response to my complaint listed three separate locations as alleged addresses on the warrant so clearly there was considerable confusion about which address they did go to.)  She asks for ID.  One shows it.  Two then force their way in, only one having shown ID..  They examine closely the paperwork on her table but make no attempt whatsoever to look for a person.  When we make a complaint, the police repeatedly insist &#8216;we know he&#8217;s a policeman but we don&#8217;t know who it is&#8217; and when asked to produce photos to ascertain ID &#8216;you can trust us to get the right person&#8217; &#8211; even though they didn&#8217;t know names!  Eventually I force them to bring photos to the interview.  Three are clear and easily identified by my mother.  The fourth is separate from the others, fuzzy, and dark but nevertheless she says it was definitely not like the one who entered who would not show ID when asked.  Some weeks later we come across the name of an officer who is involved with the group who had been fairgaming my brother and discover (from someone who knows him) his description EXACTLY matches the description my mother gave of the mystery officer.  However the police said he could not have been present because he was off duty&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.We took the complaint all the way through the complaints process.  My only consolation is that I now have names of people who covered up the corruption.</p>
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