Kevin – the mindset in Scientology is that the homeless are degraded beings and we need to help the ABLE aka those people with money we can fleece out of them until they are utterly ruined but don’t care anymore.

Thank you, Bury the nuts!

Thank you, noseinabk! I like to read too.

Let’s stay on-topic. You were dissing Scientologists as stereotypically “ruthless,” that what benefits they feel they gained are not real (you have a right to your opinion if it works for you or not) and that the volunteer ministry was just another way to make money.

The comparison I’m making isn’t specifically to Judaism, though I did mention them. I could have said, Protestants, carneys or sword swallowers. Saying any group is all “something or other” is just short-sighted and lazy.

I responded to those points earlier.

Now, what you say about forced abortions, breaking up families, bankrupting people, etc. et al – I fully agree with you. Those reasons and some of my own, personal reasons are why I left THE ORGANIZATION. I haven’t abandoned THE PEOPLE IN Scientology whom I care about. Most of my closest friends are out with me but some are still in, unaware of these bullsh*t things that mini me is doing with Scientology.

You have strong opinions about Ron. Some people share those opinions and others don’t. I respect your right to have your opinion, based on the information you choose to base it on. Such is life. I don’t have to prove my opinions for them to be valid for me. The same holds for you.

We agree on some points and disagree on others. Such is life. 🙂

Any attempt to seriously equate the 3,000 year old Judeo-Christian tradition of religion and morality along with its many and amazing contributions to society and history with the 64 year old con of Scientology is preposterous. On what basis are you attempting to compare Judaism and Scientology?

What is Hubbard’s contribution? He created a way to make money. Accept that your founder was morally bankrupt. He couldn’t even be a husband or father. At the end he abandoned his wife and hid in the desert. Hubbard set the standard for a selfish Scientologist.

Consider too the cultural history and legacy of Scientology: forced abortions, breaking up families through disconnection, tricking people into giving up every last penny or borrowing far more than they are capable of repaying, forced labor, billion year contracts, using confessed sins as a weapon, using a lie detector to coerce confessed sins, Narconon… I could go on, but the picture is clear. As an organization, Scientology is as morally corrupt as was its founder, Elron Hubbard.

Those who continue to promote Scientology in the face of such facts are as guilty as the organization they promote,

PS: I’m as out as anybody and what DM is doing IS criminal. When he falls, I’ll be one of the many who will stand up and cheer just as loud as anyone.

But Scientologists aren’t corporate Scientology.

Please stop stereotyping.

“Scientologists are probably the most ruthlessly selfish people on the planet”?
“Scientology doesn’t help anyone.”
“Volunteer ministry…yeah right…just another vehicle to do what it is for which Scientology was founded…MAKE MONEY…”

If you said this about Jews, you would be in the middle of a political uproar. Or about Catholics or white or black people, for that matter.

IMHO, you my friend, are just as nasty as those Scientologists who confront critics with “What have YOU done??? You’re just a criminal, that’s why you’re complaining!! Give it up, what have you done?” One is just as crazy as the other.

Point 1. I don’t think you know any rank and file Scientologists. At least you don’t know the people I’ve known for 20+ years. Ruthless? Not. Caring, yes. Misguided about how to care for people, Possibly. All Narcissistic? Definitely not. Some, yes. Grant, yes. DM to the nth degree.

Point 2. Obviously, you haven’t met the Scientologists mentioned above. They all feel that Scientology has helped them. And who the hell are you to say that it doesn’t help anyone? To the people who say it helps them, Bravo. A good conversation can help people so if that’s all it was, and that helped them, great. What’s your vested interest in telling people they haven’t been helped by it? Weren’t you helped by it? I’m sorry if it didn’t help you.

Point 3. Volunteer Ministry – Making money? Pfffff! Yes, eventually, at the end of the day, it’s PR for the church and that could make it money but Miscavige doesn’t want any new people coming in so that’s sort of self defeating.

VM activities are just pouring money down a hole. And it isn’t even IAS money like one would think. Individual Scientologists are regged AGAIN for the money to get the people there to help. I hate that part.

As far as the people who go to help, THEY are helping. THEY are selfless. You think anybody gets paid to go to Japan and have conversations with people who have just been through a massive earthquake near a broken nuclear reactor? Hmm? Are YOU willing to go and do that work? To organize supplies or just hand someone a bottle of water? You wouldn’t go and put yourself out to help people like that and until you do, you have no right to dis the people who will.

No, Xenuvius, you’re just a hater, sitting behind your computer, hating. So get off my ass and yours and do something constructive with your precious life. It is precious and there are so many other things you probably want to do than hate.

What DO you want to do besides this?

Please stop trying to split hairs. Hubbard’s con can’t be powder blushed into ANYTHING positive. Scientology was built from the ground up by a deranged psychotic. It was designed as a money grab pure and simple. Anyone pretending otherwise is just pretending. Scientology doesn’t help anyone. Instead, it helps itself to their wealth.

As for Scientologists, simply they are those who believe in the fraud of Scientology. They are those who believe in the fraud of Hubbard’s make believe “tech”, whether active in CoS or Indie.

Bottom line, Scientologists are probably the most ruthlessly selfish people on the planet, because it is ALWAYS about them from case to IAS to Ideal Orgs to clearing the planet.

Volunteer ministry…yeah right….just another vehicle to do what it is for which Scientology was founded…MAKE MONEY…MAKE MORE MONEY…

You may be right, Snake. 🙂 But I know Grant and probably some in the video so I’ve gotten it live. Bwahahahaha. So I might not be that lucky, after all. 😉

Grant is something else. Totally oblivious to the problem. He’s the one who wrote Milton Katsalas and broke his heart after years of Milton helping people. Grant told him that he wasn’t doing his job as a Scientologist, after years of helping young actors and bringing them in to Scn., because he wasn’t on course or auditing. That might be what killed old Milton off. A broken heart.