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Lori Hodgson and her son Jeremy: What you didn’t hear on Inside Edition

LoriInsideEdition
Yesterday, Lori Hodgson was seen on Inside Edition making a surprise visit to her son, Jeremy Leake, in Austin.

This isn’t the first time Lori has attempted to see her son in Texas after Jeremy and his sister Jessica both “disconnected” from their mother following her defection from the Church of Scientology.

In May, she also traveled from California to Jeremy’s workplace to confront him, as we reported then. This time, she brought along a camera crew and flagged down her son in the parking lot of the motorcycle shop where Jeremy works, Woods Fun Center.

According to the television program, the cameras held back as mother and son had a lengthy conversation…

Jeremy didn’t want the camera present. So, INSIDE EDITION cameras stayed at a distance when mother and son had an emotional reunion. “He talked to me and we hugged each other. He really hugged me. It was incredible,” an emotional Lori said. “It was just amazing.”

She practically begged Jeremy to end their painful separation. But she said that Jeremy insisted she must first go through the Scientology program referred to as “Steps A to E,” where she would have to admit she made a terrible mistake for leaving the church.

She said even for the love of her children she can never do that. “The thing that he kept coming back to was ‘Mom, just go in and do the Steps. ‘I just want to be your mom’,” she said.

We were in contact with Lori as she made her trip several weeks ago, and we can now reveal what she told us happened during the three hours she got to spend with her son.

As in her previous encounters with Jeremy, she soon found herself in a familiar argument. When Lori left Scientology in 2010, she met with Marty Rathbun, a former church official and someone Scientology leader David Miscavige considers an enemy. By spending time with Rathbun, Lori was herself branded a “suppressive person” by the church. Her two kids were then forced to “disconnect” — or they would risk losing their own involvement in Scientology.

Lori says that once again, her son told her that he can’t communicate with her until she follows Scientology’s rules and does her “A to E Steps” in order to get back in good standing. For her part, Lori has tried to explain that she can’t go crawling back to the church, but she’s not asking Jeremy to give up Scientology or give up his relationship with his Scientologist father.

This time, she tells us, she decided to spell out for him why she would never come back to Scientology.

“This time, he began to understand why I couldn’t go back. And that’s huge,” she tells us. “That was worth the whole trip.”

One of the things she did to explain her position was to show him how she’s been the target of disturbing retaliation from anonymous attack websites which the church finally admitted a connection to.

She asked Jeremy to look at one of the websites, which we have previously written about.

“He looked it up on his phone. He saw the stuff they wrote about me,” Lori says. “It shows me in a boat with Marty, with the caption ‘I’m taking Lori out to test her floatation devices’ — it was a reference to my breast implants. People had told me not to show him that. But I thought I had to show him so he understood. He read that right in front of me.”

She says that Jeremy understood what he was looking at, and said it was wrong for the church to be behind such attacks. “He started to understand why I can’t go back, which is huge,” Lori says.

When she visited him in May, Lori says she was very careful not to bring up her issues with Scientology. But this time, “I was going for it. I decided to bring all of it up.”

She tried to make him understand that she didn’t care if he was still attached to Scientology, she just wants to have a relationship with him and his sister. “I told him, I’m not the one trying to force a Sophie’s choice on you.”

But Lori says her son is still thinking like a Scientologist, and told her that he worried that talking to her would “threaten his afterlife.”

“I told him I don’t have any influence over his afterlife, but I wasn’t telling him that he had to quit Scientology.”

Lori says her son admitted that he did want to see both of his parents, but he wasn’t sure how to make it happen.

“Just tell them you want both parents. I can’t do it for you,” she replied.

She says that at one point, he complained that she was “all over the Internet.”

“I said, ‘That’s great. It’s because I’m fighting for you’.”

And when she said there were a lot of families in the same situation, he said he knew.

“He knew I was on the Internet, and he knew other families were going through disconnection. So I think he’s been looking around and understands what’s going on,” she says.

Over the three hours that she spent with her son, his employers — who are not Scientologists — never complained or pressured Jeremy to come back to work, which Lori appreciated.

But then, near the end of their time together, Jeremy asked Lori if she was recording him. She admitted that she did have an audio device that the camera crew had given her.

“He wanted the tape. He wanted to destroy it. He looked up Inside Edition on his phone and said he was going to sue them. He said he was going to call the police.”

At that point, Lori says, Jeremy called his father. He then accused Lori of lying. She denied that she’d lied about the taping, which hadn’t come up at first.

Lori remembers her son saying, “This discredits everything. Because you taped me. Mom, what you did was suppressive. And bringing the media was a suppressive act.”

But then, after telling her that the Inside Edition crew needed to leave (they were standing by not far away), he said she could stay and talk to him. But she said she was under the crew’s protection and needed to stay with them.

Why, because of the Squirrel Busters, two years ago? Jeremy asked. She said it was a necessary precaution.

She gave Jeremy her phone number, and she asked to see him again that night with his father. She also had Jessica’s telephone number, and Lori began sending her texts.

But after that meeting with Jeremy in the parking lot, she heard from none of them.

Inside Edition hasn’t made the segment available on its website yet, but in the meantime, here’s what one viewer recorded…

 

 
——————–

Marty Rathbun on Kirstie Alley

Kirstie Alley was on the Howard Stern show this week promoting her new sitcom and Stern stopped painting her posterior with delicate kisses just briefly enough for the subject of Scientology to come up. Alley described Leah Remini’s departure from Scientology in rather unfavorable terms.

But we were really struck by the reaction of former Scientology official Marty Rathbun, who had this to say over at his website.

First, Alley outright lies that Scientology does not ‘shun’ people. Then she lies again stating that she has personally shunned Leah not because of what she has said, but because what she has ‘done’ and because of her ‘deeds.’ Then she falsely accuses Leah Remini of calling Scientology ‘hideous and evil.’ She calls Leah a ‘bigot’ and likens her words to someone saying ‘Jews are evil’ and ‘Jews are a cult.’ All of these accusations are defamatory and, quite frankly, hysterical.

This performance of bigotry, defamation and hate by Kirstie is not her natural personality. She was trained and conditioned in Scientology to act in this immature, hateful fashion.

This is shameful. Leah is due an apology, not only by Kirstie, but by the ministry that taught her to hate.

 
——————–

How Mark Bunker marked the anniversary of Lisa McPherson’s death

The new guy in Clearwater, filmmaker Mark Bunker, makes an impression on the local city council…

 

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on December 7, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

 

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  • DodoTheLaser

    Since when mothers need to do A to E steps to be with their children?
    Since Scientology – pseudo-religious applied abusology.

    • Gabbyone

      May all disconnected families unite–no matter what cult they are in.

      • Interested

        I second that!

    • Sam Domingo

      It’s common practice now. My ex husband was ordered to spy on me as part of his ‘A-E steps’ and told if he didn’t comply he would be SP declared. Plenty of my friends were similarly told to do A-E steps and ordered to write damaging statements against myself, Marty Rathbun and the Indies as part of their program to return. Scary thing is a couple of them actually did as ordered.

      • Sam Domingo

        Hi OSA. Fuck you OSA. Leave my family and friends alone because I will slap you hard every time you come after one of them. Thought you’d have figured that out by now.

        • Lori Hodgson

          Right On Sam!

        • aquaclara

          We are with you! Sam. I admire your guts and spirit, and hope they do in fact leave you and your family alone.
          Wishing you the best….

      • villagedianne

        There may be something more here than even the church’s income line. As I recall, COS required Lori’s son to sign a paper saying he would not reveal something. If he talks about it, he has to pay COS a huge sum of money. What this secret is Lori does not know. But she has said she wonders what it could be that the church has taken such extreme measures to keep hidden.

        • Sam Domingo
          • Cat Daddy

            spot on

          • monkeyknickers

            ROCK ON SAMANTHA.

            I don’t know why your and Lori’s story hit me so hard, or maybe it’s hormones, but FUCK THEM.

            • Andrew Underhill

              Perhaps it is merely common sense, not hormones?

            • monkeyknickers

              Something tells me I’m a little SHORT on common sense. :)) But I’m long on hormones. 🙂 Just playing the odds, mate. 🙂

            • Shirley Eugeste

              Oh hey… Is it soup yet? (70’s instant Cuppa Soup ad)

              By which I mean, or course, have the bonny bouncing bairn been born? In any case, I hope all is well.

          • zoomusicgirl

            Hi Sam, I read your declaration of independence published on Marty Rathbun’s blog some time ago and I’m sorry you and your family had such a rough time with the church of scientology. The thing that struck me the most about your declaration and what it made it unique was the passage where you wrote “Coincidental to the above I had made the origination that I had received past life auditing and had already reached certain states of OT. This was ignored and I was told that it really didn’t matter as I would have to re-do all of my grades anyway.” I wanted to ask you about that statement: were you just yanking their chains and trying to get out of the mind-numbing grades you’d have to do to reach the state of clear or did you really believe that you’d already done them in a previous incarnation? I thought about that and, given your estimated year of birth, I don’t see how that’s possible, even if you do believe in reincarnation. I’d be interested in your answer. I’d also be interested to know if you still consider yourself to be a scientologist.

            • Snippy_X

              Anything is possible because Hubbard added parallel time tracks and lives that are lived out of chronological order, probably to account for the [false] memories of people who didn’t add so well on the fly.

            • zoomusicgirl

              Thank you for your explanation. I did wonder whether they used some kind of parallel universe concept. The more I learn about this stuff, the harder it gets to refrain from ridiculing the blatant lack of logic. Most religions would be ridiculous if taken literally, but it’s generally accepted that they are better viewed metaphorically. I don’t have any religious views but I try not to trample on any belief that might be a comfort to others. Having said that, I don’t understand what comfort can be derived from scientology. How can inverting your entire concept of reality do anyone any good? I’m not surprised it takes former members a long time to return to normality and my heart breaks for the poor children who are unlucky enough to be born into it.

            • Snippy_X

              Most religions would be ridiculous if taken literally, but it’s generally accepted that they are better viewed metaphorically.

              zooomu – I think you really hit on a profound difference between the ancient and old established religions vs. Scientology. One of the first questions people want answered is, “Where did we come from?” and “Why are we here?” All the answers are not known, but what parent would pass up such a teaching moment? Parables and creation metaphors helped to build communities and the good stories survived with their group. The intention of the story was to answer a child’s question in a way that benefited the society.

              Later on, splinter groups and a few delusional individuals would capitalized on the ability of religious beliefs to cement alliances. The intention of LRH’s stories was to make him rich and powerful, with total disregard (and contempt even) for his followers. He even dangles his creation myth at the end of a long pole. This is an unnaturally cruel thing to do to a child or young person trying to find their place in the world, but it is a good marketing strategy. I think Lawrence Wright overlooked that the intent behind the earliest creation myths was an honest intent, whereas some of the later religious founders were driven by mental illness and or delusions of grandeur, narcissism and even psychopathy. The epilogue in his book has bothered me from day one. What you just said made me understand why. 🙂

            • Sam Domingo

              No 🙂 I don’t consider myself a Scientologist. The declaration was made in the early days and I’ve had 5 years of readjustment time since then. I don’t think spiritual enlightenment can be attained by belonging to any group I think we all just go along the path we choose and learn as much as we can along the way and will figure it all out eventually. Anyone who says they have all the answers is self delusional as far as I’m concerned because if that were true then we wouldn’t still be talking about it. As for whatever came up ‘reincarnation’ wise in my auditing I didn’t know what to believe then and I still don’t now. According to what came up in my own personal ‘past life’ auditing I’d already spent a lifetime doing it and didn’t really need most of it. Whether that’s actually true or whether the truth is that I didn’t need most of it just because…. I didn’t need it anyway remains to be seen – I don’t bother busting my head over it one way or the other. I just chalk it all up to experience (mostly bad) and move on. I’m working on writing the whole story with the fresh perspective I have now but meanwhile I hope that answers your questions.

            • zoomusicgirl

              Thank you for taking the time to answer me, Sam. I’m happy for you that you’ve found your way through what I can only imagine to be a complete headfuck. I’m happy for your family too – things must be better for them now. I wish you all the very best in life and in writing your story, which I look forward to reading when it’s complete. Take care. Sue.

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          The truth is the church would never sue if Jeremy talked, they got their ass kicked when they tried that with Cook. When Jeremy decides he has had enough, hopefully he will talk to a lawyer. Whatever it is that he saw, it sickens me to know that it probably had to do with money or sex and that those bastards have convinced him it is a “religious” secret.

      • HolyCash

        Those are all important points. The A to E steps are where fanaticism enters in.

        Why does Scientology hang on like a rabid pitbull to a member who wants to leave? Why do they spend untold funds, utilize so many personnel for so many useless hours, and full on resources to find out what a person fears the most and then dangle the rat cage?

        Greed. That is all. Pure greed. The lengths of terrorizing, silencing and extreme attacks carried on today are symptomatic of a sandcastle crumbling in the heat.. They are hemorrhaging both cash and members and appear to be in the last spasms of a death knell.

        Soon. Very soon.

        • ThetaBara

          I believe they are also attempting to buy their silence.

          • HolyCash

            Yes, that’s all part of it. They are buying silence if they think it will cost them another slave or another dime.

      • Glibby

        Inside Edition said “that Jeremy insisted she must first go through the Scientology program referred to as “Steps A to E,” where she would have to admit she made a terrible mistake for leaving the church.”

        But the A-E steps are much much worse than simply admitting a terrible mistake.

        Here is the 1991 Version which I copied from ESMB (Step B2 is particularly bad):

        http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?7444-Steps-A-to-E&p=438443&viewfull=1#post438443

        HCO POLICY LETTER OF 23 DECEMBER 1965RB
        REVISED 8 JANUARY 1991

        SUPPRESSIVE ACTS SUPPRESSION OF SCIENTOLOGY AND SCIENTOLOGISTS

        Revision assisted by
        LRH Technical Research
        and Compilations

        A. Tells the person or group to stop committing present time overts and to cease
        all attacks and suppressions so he, she or they can get a case gain;

        B. Requires a public announcement to the effect that they realize their actions were ignorant and unfounded and stating where possible the influences or motivations which caused them to attempt to suppress or attack Scientology; gets it signed before witnesses and published broadly, particularly to persons directly influenced or formerly associated with the former offender or offenders. The letter should be calculated to expose any conspiracy to suppress Scientology or the preclear or Scientologist if such existed;

        B1. Requires that all debts owed to Scientology organizations or missions are
        paid off;

        B2. May require that, subject to the approval of the International Justice Chief, an amends project suitable and commensurate with the severity and extent of the suppressive acts committed be completed before further A to E steps are undertaken;

        Before any such amends project is begun, the person must submit an Amends Project Petition to the International Justice Chief, using full CSW and stating what he proposes to do as amends, and this must be approved by the International Justice Chief to be considered valid. (Ref: HCO PL 1 May 65, STAFF MEMBER REPORTS, and HCO PL 1 May 65 II, ORDER BOARD AND TIME MACHINE) Evidence of genuine ethics change may be required before approval of the amends project is given. (Examples of such evidence might be, depending upon the high crimes committed: the person has obtained an honest job; has paid off all debts owed to others; valid contributions have been made to the community; the person has totally ceased those actions for which he was declared, etc.);

        It is also within the power of the International Justice Chief, when approving an Amends Project Petition, to require, as a protector of the Church and its tenets and membership, that such amends project be carried out entirely off any Scientology organization, mission or network lines, and to require, before the amends project may be considered complete, extensive evidence over a protracted period of time that the person has, beyond any doubt, ceased his or her suppressive actions, has created no problems for the Church or any member of the Church in any way on any line, and has undertaken and completed
        an action which is clearly and undeniably of benefit to mankind;

        C. Requires training beginning at the lowest level of the Bridge at their expense if executives in charge of training will have the person or the group members;

        D. Makes a note of all of the above matters with copies of the statement and files in the ethics files of those concerned;

        E. Informs the International Justice Chief and forwards a duplicate of the original statements which show signatures.

        • Lori Hodgson

          TY 4 sharing this! I will share as well!

    • Cat Daddy

      Since L Ron Hubbard

      http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/HCOPL%20BPL/HCOB-612109.html

      “The Children’s Security Check

      The Children’s Security Check is perhaps the saddest and sickest
      commentary on the so called “Church of Scientology”. This security
      check is current and in use. It is aimed at children who are 6 to 12
      years of age.”

      • joan nieman

        Oh I wish I could free all those innocents and give them a normal, happy life! What kind of religion enslaves children? This is 2013 for Heaven’s sake!!

        • Still_On_Your_Side

          The Church of Scientology, the Taliban, and Warren Jeff’s sect. Interesting how much alike they are in dealing with children, education, and freedom of thought.

      • Noni Mause

        Your daughter “doesn’t need to be protected from (your) religion”, Tom Cruise? Like hell she doesn’t. The children’s sec check is an abomination.

        Catholic children begin the rite of confession at the age of eight. I can remember some of my early confessions – honestly, you really want to do be your best for God at that age – and I was really conscientious about trying to remember all my sins so I could be forgiven and have a nice clean soul again. The worst my tiny child brain could come up with is having told a lie. Reading through that long, long list of negative questions, I could only think about how crushing having to answer ‘yes’ to any of those would be to a little person. I noticed there is no mention of forgiveness in the process, either, leaving the little one with an impression of their ‘badness’. Poor babys. Catholic confession relies on your own conscience, and becomes an opportunity for genuine self reflection and re-dedication to your OWN goal of being a better person. Scientology’s version is aggressively intrusive and something, I imagine, you’d begin to build defenses against. I wouldn’t want my children within a million miles of this.

  • Miss Tia

    Morning y’all, just 3 tweets this AM…i know i’m slacking! it’s really cold out and hence really cold inside though! I think my brain is frozen? dunno….and YEAH!!! for Lori!!!!

    Thank you for covering @lori_hodgson story @InsideEdition! @scientology DOES force disconnection & even @Paul_Haggis can verify that!

    The ONLY relationship @scientology cares about is the one between them & their banker! @scientology doesn’t care about families! #Greed

    Hey @insideedition it’s part of @scientology church doctrine to LIE! When they told you disconnection didn’t exist they lied & R OK w/ that!

    • KJP in Portland

      Good morning, Miss Spitfire! <3

      I love reading my "Morning Tweets" as composed and provided by Miss Tia! (((HUGS!)))

      Happy Saturday!

      And, Dear Sea Org Staff: YOU TOO can have Saturdays and Sundays off! Just dial 1-866-XSEA-ORG!

      Staff: You will get immediate, confidential help, not some baloney!

      • Hobson’sChoice

        I agree. The “Morning Tweets” have become a ‘look forward’ to for me as well.

        • Miss Tia

          aw, that’s really sweet to hear! (And encouraging 🙂 thank you!! ((hugs))

      • i-Betty

        I love your posts today, KJ!

        • KJP in Portland

          It’s freezing here with a brisk east wind at the mouth of the Gorge here in Troutdale. Plus I’m so excited about the job, I have hardly slept since Thursday morning. 2 days in a row awakening at 2 am…Well, at least my circadian hours will be ready for Monday morning!

          Thank you for the kind word, ma’am!

          • Miss Tia

            you gotta get up at 2am for your job? eek!!

      • ThetaBara

        FWIW, Chuck (at 1-866-XSEAORG) will help anyone get out – whether SO, staff or public.
        Thanks for reposting this!

    • EnthralledObserver

      Three is more than enough, Miss Tia – thank you for your ongoing efforts!

      • Miss Tia

        yeah, i did those 3 and my brain froze….maybe it’ll warm up later? dunno…..i usually have a ‘slow’ day once a week or so anyway…..it happens….

        • KJP in Portland

          And Tia, you know it’s ok to take a day off once in awhile. Or, make it a short day. You entirely deserve it after all the effort you put into this ‘little project’ of yours. Make today a ‘rest day’ if you wish!

          Love and (((hugs))) from me, and I’m sure, others in the Bunker too; for your enthusiasm and dynamo dedication to standing up to the cult and its ‘high-visibility / celebrity’ adherents.

        • Interested

          You rock! Now go and put the kettle on, make a hot Drink and hot water bottle, put your feet up, and if you have a fire, light it. Take a deep breath, close your eyes, and relax, you deserve it. (((Hugs)))

          • Crimsontide

            Miss Tia–Do as “Interested” said! We don’t want you to suffer burn-out. The tweets will pay off.

          • Miss Tia

            Ah thanks!! ((hugs)) Everyone at the bunker needs to have a day to relax—especially Tony!!

        • DamOTclese2

          Twitter has plenty of tweets covering Kirstie’s comments, I have been seeing. Looks like only a few people — Scientology customers almost certainly — are siding with her.

          • Miss Tia

            yeah, i slammed her yesterday with ’em….i’m glad she’s getting hit…she deserves it….i mean you keep that up, what do you expect??

  • tetloj

    I hope there is some positive spin off for Lori with this going to air. Good for you Lori, to not allow the disconnection to happen.

  • KJP in Portland

    My heart is with you, Lori.

    1-866-XSEA-ORG for any family member or member period that wants to leave!

    You have friends and immediate support out here in the ‘Wog World’. You CAN have your freedom back! Freelaoders’ Debt is totally unenforceable, and STALKING YOU IS A CRIME!

    1-866-XSEA-ORG

    Make that call TODAY! Be home for Christmas…your family and neighbors love you!

  • EnthralledObserver

    Go Mark, GO!
    All my hopes and dreams for Lori that she gets that yearned for breakthrough with first her son, then her daughter… A mother shouldn’t have to be tortured like this simply to keep a scam going and an arsehole (Miscavige) rich!!!!!

  • thatssotheta

    My heart breaks for Lori Hodgson. I do have faith that one day her kids will wake up and when they do, they will see how hard she fought all this time. Even for an outsider it’s obvious to see how much she loves her children. Sending light & love her way!

    RE Kirstie — she comes off as crazy and pathetic while Leah radiates pure class. TEAMLEAH!!

    I LOVE that Wise Beard is living in Clearwater and stirring the pot. Mark Bunker for mayor!!!

    • i-Betty

      Bunker for Mayor!

      • Eclipse-girl

        I would contribute to that campaign

    • Pepsicat

      He’s not just living in Clearwater, he’s living right across the street from a Sea Org berthing. Go Mark!

      • KJP in Portland

        One of those new CO2 harmless foam pellet guns…quick. They are harmless (foam balls). Apply foam pellet gun tech NOW!

        LOL!

        • HolyCash

          Please consider removing this post. Scientology is circling the drain and at the foaming at the mouth stage. Thank you.

        • ThetaBara

          That would only enable their strategy of painting themselves as the victims.
          We need to be better than they are. Otherwise it just reinforces the official line that we are all evil SPs.

          • Once_Born

            This is why I so love the “Anonymous” people who hand out slices of cakes and biscuits to passers-by during protests.

            It must be really hard (not to mention counter-productive) to tell police that they you are being threatened by terrorists and religious bigots, only to have to admit that the worst thing they have done is given away light snacks.

            Ghandi would have been envious

        • DamOTclese2

          Are you fucking insane?!

          • EnthralledObserver

            I think he’s just venting… no harm done. Wishful thinking, as it were… a little bit like wondering how it is that nobody has taken physical retribution on Makemerich yet for all the harm he has perpetrated.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Joke taken too seriously KJP… post police are out again. 😉

      • DamOTclese2

        We need a “Sea Org Web Cam” to be established, put it on the Internet, everybody all over the world can watch the shrinking criminal enterprise real time.

  • Interested

    It is a good thing I live alone, I almost threw my iPad on the floor as I screamed
    “f.k bastards” as I listened to their crp about no disconnection, and felt Lori’s pain. That she still has a smile even though her eyes are so very very sad.
    I am shaking with anger.
    When the faking chirch denies this policy why don’t the tv stations have the video of mikes family screaming abuse, or Marty’s family writing obsenitues on his “who is” site.
    Why don’t they ask them about disconnection?

    Re Kirsty. She is going to sink to obscurity, all her money will be gone, and then her “amazing faith” are going to chuck her to the curb… And I wish her {well} The Americans on the whole are a good people who do not like the kind of nastiness she spews forth. She is bringing down the church just like DM with her behaviour. Maybe we should thank her? .??? Hum!
    Just sayin

    • KJP in Portland

      Oh, I understand your frustration and anger. Isn’t it very similar in ‘lying’ by the Nazi leadership in WW2? They would say the Jews were being ‘resettled’ in the Eastern conquered territories. That’s what they told their public during the war. And, the mostly ignorant public, supporting their country during wartime, actually believed that the Jews were being resettled in settlements in Eastern Poland, Western Ukraine and what is now Belarus, etc.

      To read the same stuff in either Nazi history, or the history of WW2, it angers me in pretty equal ways.

      And yesterday, I posted that Kirstie’s ‘show’ might not last the full premiere season. Once that happens, Kirstie the Hutt’s career is over, over, over. I only see her getting secondary and 3rd-tier roles over the next 5-7 years, playing an older woman, grandma-type. The reviews she is garnering for this show are really bad, and her career is over.

      Maybe DM and his goony thug will drive her out into the California desert and let her out of the car in the middle of nowhere, like they do with elderly staff!

      Cheer up, it’s early here yet. The day will get MUCH better!

      • Interested

        Thanks kJP , I know that the nazis lied, I have family that perished in the camps. But that was before tv, it was before the Internet, it was before YouTube. There was no excuse but ignorance (apart from the fact that most were aware of something fishy) but NOW!
        Sorry to shout… The news agencies are bloody ignorant, they do not do their due diligence, all that H’S needed to do was get lori on line with Krusty. Maybe he wanted K to hang herself… Well, he succeeded. IMHO

        • KJP in Portland

          I have a neighbor (I told the story here several times) that was deported to Auschwitz with his family from Salonika, Greece and his entire family perished but him. He’s now in a cre home in a semi-hospice situation. He’s 86-87 now. He was just 15 when they were crammed into the boxcars for Auschwitz.

          Please accept my apologies for those members of your ancestors. I’m pro-Zionist because of that whole 12-year ordeal (1933-1945).

          And I agree about the news ‘outfits’…ALL THEY CARE ABOUT is RATINGS…that’s the only thing they give a sh*t about…because ratings = money. But the funny thing they don’t seem to understand is this:

          There are so few active Scientologists left in the World; their fear of losing viewership or sponsorship money is completely unwarranted. They wouldn’t lose a thing, if they got the balls strapped on and did a true-blue, hard as nails, expose’ on The Cult. But American news just can’t seem to have the balls to play around with CoB$.

          American news outlets di an OK job on exposing Warren Jeffs and his FLDS; now…why the hell can’t they do at least the same with Scamatology???

          My apologies for your frustration and for your family members lost in ‘the camps’

          KP

      • DrGreatCham

        She’ll wind up like John Brodie, the ex-49er;s QB and other faded celebs that COS had no use for.

    • ThetaBara

      This is Why.

    • villagedianne

      Alley made millions from her TV shows back in the day. I doubt if COS got all her money. She will probably always be wealthy. Even the acting career, up to now she’s done pretty well for a woman of her age and size. With a few exceptions, Hollywood is not kind to older actresses. If anything, her downfall will be her big mouth. Being a Scientology shill and having no filter will IMO, turn people against her. If only she would wake up!

  • Rod Keller
  • Miss Tia

    Don’t forget, MAIL TECH!!! I have a central location for names, addresses and information! http://misstia.com/mailtech.html

  • i-Betty

    I can’t take it all in today. Thank you, Tony.

    Lori, you saw him. You saw Jeremy, and you held him! As a mother, I’m choked up beyond belief reading Tony’s report, and so happy for you. Walking away, knowing that probably neither he or Jessica would be able to follow up the contact must have killed you. But you are one step closer, and now he knows that the promise you made never to stop fighting for him was the truth.

    Bunker, you’re my hero. Seriously. A compassionate, passionate, bearded hero and I love you.

    • KJP in Portland

      (((hugs))) Betty! Keep on the good fight and the telephone number barrage!

      • i-Betty

        I’ll post it now 🙂 Thank you KJP. x

  • aquaclara

    Mark Bunker’s video is outstanding. Too many people don’t remember how bad the Church of Scientology has been, and to his point, begin to think that compromising and finding common ground will help resolve issues with the church. Yet we know that’s not possible with an organization that lies, destroys people and has no appreciation for being part of the community. Timely and succinct, Mark nails it. And brings up the reminder that this is the anniversary of the death of Lisa.

    We do not forget. He is making sure others don’t, either.

    • Noni Mause

      Mark Bunker is a man of unusual courage and integrity. He’s an unrecognised national treasure. We love you, Mark.

      • i-Betty

        He has never forgotten Lisa. I wonder what she would say to Mark, if she were still alive. 🙂

        • tetloj

          “His words are wise, his face is beard”. I get a kick out of thinking that is what she would say.

        • ThetaBara

          I think she’d give him a big hug.

    • Silence of the Clams

      Thank you Mark. You really are a hero among heroes.

      • Mark Bunker

        Thanks to everyone for the kind words. Speaking at the City Commission meetings is one of the things that drew me back here. It will be interesting to see if Scientology sends people to rebut me in future meetings the way they used to in the lmt days.

        • HolyCash

          Merry Christmas, David Miscavige and all the OSA puppeteers.

          🙂

        • monkeyknickers

          I said it above, but I adore you. You give me hope, brother. I want my sister out. Plus I like your beard. 🙂
          .

          Also – I thought of this last night . . . . you know that doc of “World Tonight” where Hubbard is embarrassing? They said in the beginning that he “talked for three hours”. Is there any chance you can access the extra footage for your movie?

        • Noni Mause

          Took ’em by surprise, huh? Good for you! Guess they must have stopped paying for the PI’s on you the same day they stopped paying for Pat Broeker’s.

        • DamOTclese2

          It would be interesting to see if the insane crooks have anyone left willing to even try. Maybe Kirstie Alley will show up and scream, “Bigot!” or something equally loony. The syndicate has customers left, and they have some staff, but nothing like it was when the LMT came to town. The insane crooks will have a hard time finding someone dimwitted and hate-driven enough to try who also speaks English.

        • EnthralledObserver

          You are so awesome… my Scieno-fighting idol, along with TO! 🙂

    • monkeyknickers

      I am in love with him.

      • joan nieman

        He is very lovable!!!

        • monkeyknickers

          He is man of serious hugginess. 🙂 He should feel lucky we’re not all smothering him with embraces. 🙂

    • joan nieman

      Mark Bunker did an excellent job of telling it “like it is’ in a non subjective way.He reported the facts and the facts are hard to chew. People need to be educated of the damage that is being done, has been done , in the past and in the present. Bravo Mark!

      • Andrew Underhill

        His clarity on life is an education itself, he is the sort of person you just need to have around to put thing into perspective.

  • i-Betty

    WE BELIEVE THAT DISCONNECTION IS CRUEL AND WRONG

    Helpline:

    1-866-XSEAORG – The call is completely free and can be made from any public telephone

    If you’re a Scientologist reading this and you are having doubts about your religion, whether it be the doctrine, the incessant, relentless regging, or the leadership, but are afraid to leave because it’s all you’ve known, or you’re afraid of what to expect on the ‘outside’, please give the number on Baby’s sign (below) a call; it’s totally free. You can speak anonymously and in strict confidence to somebody who can help you, and will receive non-judgmental moral support, as well as real advice for setting up your new life and getting back on your feet.

    I promise you, the outside world isn’t the enemy. As in all walks of life, some people are idiots, but most people are kind, hard working, honest, loving individuals, just living their lives. Many, many people have already left Scientology and are living happy, fulfilling, peaceful lives filled with family and friends – old and new – who love them. They, too, felt your fears as they began their break away from the church. Some took a leap of faith and discovered that the landing was soft, welcoming and forgiving. Some needed to take baby steps. But they all moved in one direction: towards the door.

    For them, every day is now an adventure and they are the architects of their own lives.

    You may be feeling:

    Sadness and loss over saying “goodbye” to those ideals in the group you thought you could admire, the fellow members you thought were your true friends, or the time and money spent following something which turned out to be false…

    Fear, that this may have been your last hope for happiness, success, enlightenment, or your eternity; that you are no longer protected by the powers of your leader and are vulnerable to evil; that you will make bad decisions for yourself without the group’s guidance, or that you will be punished for leaving…

    Loneliness, at the thought of leaving intensive relationships, and now needing to reconnect with family and friends who live in a manner that your religion criticized…

    Confusion, about what to believe, and how to make good decisions for yourself and your future…

    Guilt, possibly associated with having broken ties to loved ones, or for having recruited others into Scientology…

    Shame, when realizing you were involved in an organisation that maybe made you behave in a way that you’re not proud of…

    If Auditing and Training are still important to you they are both available outside the church, but without any of the hoops attached which you are currently expected to jump through…it is cheaper, and there will be no sec checking.

    It might help you to hear stories from others who were in your exact same situation. There is a great website called The Big List That Left Scientology. Here is the link: https://sites.google.com/site/biglistthatleftscientology/ Click on the alphabetical letters across the top to find people you may have known, and to read some inspirational stories.

    You might also like to look at the “Dear Scientologist” series of letters written by ex-Scientologists which are specifically tailored to be free of any reference to OT materials. They are beautifully written and might begin to help you make sense of your questions and confusion. Here is the link: http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/dear-scientologist2.htm

    Last, but by no means least, the Freeloader Debt is NOT legally enforceable – that means they can’t make you pay it.

    Call the Toll Free number. It might just be the first step to the rest of your life.

    And call your family. Please. They never stopped loving you and hoping that one day you would come back to them. The Christmas holidays are near. Give them a call, send them your love. No guilt, no shame.

    We wish you so much luck and love.

    • tetloj

      Beautiful thanks iBetty

    • Galactic Patrol

      All of what is written above is true. I walked away and my life is 1000% better because I’m no longer living a lie. I don’t have to “PR” my friends or family anymore about Scientology. I don’t have to worry about whether I can spend my holidays with them. I don’t have to wonder why my Church claims to have a membership of millions yet can’t get more than three or four people into a classroom each night. And I don’t have to be accosted for money every single time I see a Church staff member.

      • i-Betty

        I’m so glad you’re out and safe, GP. This has made me smile. 🙂

      • ThetaBara

        Yay! Glad you got out and that you have your family and friends back!

        • Galactic Patrol

          Yeah, I don’t have all my friends back quite yet. Which is why I’m here. I want the human rights violations and tyranny of Scientology to be a thing of the past. The toxic disconnection policy is an utter crime. I think the solution is getting the “under the radars” to stop being under the radar, the lurkers to stop lurking and step up and start speaking out. Even if just anonymously at first, it makes a huge difference.

          Once I can get enough people to speak out and the “power” of the Church over them is compromised, then I am sure I will get all my friends back. That’s what I look forward to every single day.

          • ThetaBara

            I would love to know your thoughts on the most useful things we never-ins can do to facilitate that, if anything?

            • Galactic Patrol

              I’ve not fully thought this whole thing through, but my ideas would be along these lines:

              (1) The internet has been the most powerful tool against Scientology and I think it will continue to be so. From my own experience when I was in, protests outside of orgs do almost nothing except annoy most parishioners because they aren’t about to go out and talk to any of the protestors or have their minds changed. I’m sure there are exceptions but I never saw one.

              (2) Changing Scientologists’ minds has to happen in the comfort and calm of their own home when they can get information by themselves and have time to chew on it and work it around the cognitive dissonance which turns on every time something “entheta” appears. I am willing to bet that 95% of Scientologists who “see the light” and get the hell out, only did so after they started being exposed in some way or another to the truth via the Internet.

              (3) Scientologists for the most part are not stupid people. Gullible and credulous, yes. But that is not the same as stupid. They can reason and think things through. So I believe the best thing to do is hit them at the points that they are already wondering about to themselves, even if they dare not admit it to others. These days it is easier to do this than ever before since the lies pouring out of Miscavige’s mouth are so blatant and so many.

              (4) I think the best thing anyone can do is contribute to the existing blogs and start more of them. Each and every Google search on Scientology should have nothing but the actual truth about Scientology coming up on the first page – that it is a lying cult of greed and corruption. The more people who are independently saying that on their own platforms, the more Google’s search algorithms will produce those results in response to search requests.

              (5) In contributing to the blogs, I think there are three categories of posts that should be repeated continuously:

              a) Factual information about what the Church and Miscavige are actually doing. We all do this all the time. Tony and Mike Rinder I think are the masters of this. From my own experience, Debbie Cook’s email was the single most effective of these, mainly not because of what it said but because it came from a source that many Scientologists were willing to trust and so read it all the way through. The trust factor is crucial. So personal communication to individual Scientologists is the best. If you don’t know any Scientologists or they won’t listen to you personally, there’s always (b) and (c) below.

              b) Instead of attacking or name-calling, instead ask questions that will get lurkers thinking. There are so many of these that can be put out there. Here are a few I could think of:
              – Where are all the parishioners in this time of “greatest expansion ever”?
              – How come the Church keeps saying to the public that there is no such thing
              as disconnection when LRH policy clearly states that there is?
              – Where are your IAS donations actually going?

              – Where are the big dissemination campaigns?
              – How come Dianetics isn’t a household word like it used to be in the 80s?
              – How come no new people are flooding in?

              – Why does Scientology seem so unpopular?
              – Is my Ideal Org really so off-policy and out-tech that it keeps people away?
              – How come we never see anyone but David Miscavige anymore? What about
              the rest of International management? How come they aren’t ever at events?

              c) Actual quotes from LRH issues which explicitly state things that the general public will never otherwise see. The confidential stuff. I’m not referring to the OT levels or tech stuff because Scientologists won’t ever generally let themselves look at that stuff. But they are certainly curious about upper level policies, secret OSA/GO instructions and operations. LRH wrote it, it’s undeniable and when parishioners see how paranoid and psychotic it is, that will impinge. Even if they say that it’s just lies and made up, the seed of truth has been planted. That seed will grow if its fed by repeating the quotes over and over again. Kind of like the “Where’s Shelly” message, which has now become a kind of mantra for ex’s and never-ins to point out the worst in the Church in just two words.

              I have to say that I’m often surprised at the passion and dedication that some “never-ins” bring to the table. It amazes me that some people who have never been subjected to the mind control would care enough about the relatively small cult of Scientology to want to do something about it. To be honest, it inspires me.

              I hope there is something in what I wrote here that is helpful or useful.

            • Tomato Thetan

              Very helpful–thank you

            • Once_Born

              To be fair to the protesters (whom you mention in point 1) they were not there to try to persuade committed Scientologists to leave. Their purpose was to raise public awareness, and make it next to impossible for the CofS to recruit new members.

              Tactically, this is probably the most quick, sure and effective way to bring the organisation down – and it is an approach that seems to be working. The Orgs are empty and CofS resources are dwindling.

              Reaching out to committed Scientologists is a different question, which you cover with insight and in detail. The problem is that it is difficult to talk to these people, let alone persuade them to abandon a belief that in which they have have invested not only their money, but also their self-esteem and years of their time.

              This is not to say that it’s not worth trying, if you get the opportunity – and there is excellent advice on how to go about it here: http://www.inform.ac/node/12

              I agree that the best way to deal with Scientologists who post here is with respect and care. Minds could be changed in this way – which is why the trolls are here to muddy the waters and to make us suspicious of such people.

              Realistically, the only opportunity anyone outside of the CofS is going to have to help significant numbers of Scientologists is after the organisation’s collapses, when they are offloaded en masse.

              In the meantime, we could do worse than reading your post and bearing it’s advice in mind the next time that someone try to tell us how clever Ron was.

            • Galactic Patrol

              I totally agree. I realized after I hit the “post” button that my point #1 could be read as a dis on Anonymous and protesting and that is not at all my intent. I agree with you that the protests were very very effective at raising general awareness with the public at large as to the dangers of Scientology and I agree with that activity for that purpose. I could not agree more with what Anonymous did and I actually wish they could rally and do it again in the massive numbers that turned out on February 10, 2008.

              As you noted, my point was that it is not an activity that is going to change the minds of Scientologists and that is not what it was being done for. To that end, I think it is personal communication and repetitive “marketing” of the truth about Scientology that will get through the Scientologists. It got through to me, so I know it does work.

            • Once_Born

              The CofS really needs to try to censor something on the Internet, and attract the renewed ire of Anonymous. Things seem to have gone off the boil there.

              Also, it would be interesting (if you are ready and willing) to know what it was that “got through” to you, and how long you were ‘in’. Different approaches are likely to be required to a newcomer to Scientology and a Sea Org veteran.

            • Galactic Patrol

              I’m not really in a position to reveal any personal details. But I can tell you that the path of my discovery out went roughly like this:

              (1) noticing problems within the Church as an active member. It took years for it to get through to me, but things like a failure of any of the “big dissemination campaigns” to ever materialize despite hearing about them over and over at events; very few new public coming in; repeatedly hearing the same “black PR” coming out of the mouths of people who did come in or people I met out in the world at large; the disappearance of long-trusted Int management personnel; churches being run not to make auditors or Clears but only to generate income for the IAS; people I had personally known and trusted being secretly declared suppressive; justice policies being misapplied and SP declares suddenly being done in secret “for PR purposes”.

              (2) reading the Church’s own “Dead Agent” packs and Freedom mags about Rathbun and Rinder and the “Posse of Lunatics”. The information being presented that such rampant physical abuse had occurred at Int level was itself shocking, but the tone of the article was so obviously slanderous and openly hateful, I knew that according to Scientology’s own policies, that Rathbun and Rinder were not the only sources of all the “entheta”. There was obviously a cover-up going on.

              (3) starting to look on the Internet, not for anti-Scientology statements, but for any good statements about the Church. Finding so very little and instead seeing the Google search pages flooded with anti-Scientology sentiments, some of them expressing the exact problems I was seeing already.

              (4) seeing Debbie Cook’s email and realizing that I actually saw a lot of what she was talking about and I couldn’t disagree with her.

              (5) then finding on the internet that there are overwhelming numbers of people testifying in court and under oath in legal documents to David Miscavige’s tryannical pscyhotic episodes. It’s easy to shrug off a couple or even a few of these stories as “bitter apostates” but when you find out that there is a list of 2000+ people who have actively spoken out against the Church, some of whom you knew or remember, it becomes a little hard to keep the cognitive dissonance going.

              (6) taking the plunge and diving in to everything that is out there; all the ex’s stories, The Bunker (which I used to think was a cesspool of hate when I was still in), Rinder and Rathbun’s blogs, etc. And once the truth started coming out, it was like a tidal wave. My whole world was rocked. All of my questions were being answered, everything was falling into place. And, by the way, with the cognitive dissonance evaporating, I saw quite clearly that there was very little “hate” here in The Bunker.

              (7) the final nail in the coffin, the thing that made me realize once and for all that Hubbard was himself absolutely crazy, was when I saw the confidential GO/OSA references on how to handle attackers by destroying their entire lives through any means necessary (legal or illegal) in order to get them to stop attacking. That was when I realized that maybe Hubbard had started the whole thing in an effort to help or maybe in an effort to make easy money, but at some point he went into a paranoid psychosis. And that was the most shocking revelation of all, because through all of these things, I still believe in Hubbard. But now I knew that I had been the “mark” in a very long con and that Hubbard’s “tech” was a fantasy.

              I’d been helped by lots of things in Scientology and I’d helped lots of others. I’m no cult apologist but I’m also not at the other extreme of denying it ever did anyone any good. That’s just as silly a thing to say, since it demonstrably has helped many people. But the source of that help was not Hubbard and his egotism or his “brilliant discoveries”. It’s the many people who honestly are doing what they can to make the world a better place, and unfortunately think Scientology has all the answers.

              It does have some common sense principles mixed in with all its claptrap and nonsense. And if that’s all it was, I’d be fine to leave it alone. But clearly we can’t do that because the Church of Scientology is destructive far in excess of its construction. They ruin lives, destroy relationships and bilk people out of millions of dollars under the false banner of “saving the universe.” So by Hubbard’s own formula of “greatest good for greatest number of dynamics”, the Church of Scientology must be made to go away.

              So here I am now.

            • Once_Born

              Thanks for that.

              I’m glad you took the plunge, and are here now.

              It seems to me that, every day, the inconsistencies and lies that led to you question what you were being told by the ‘Church’ are becoming more apparent and extreme to those who are still ‘in’. What’s more, the poor attendance at events, the constant demands for money, and the ’empty orgs’ must be raising new doubts. The present management seems completely unaware of this, and continue to press on with policies that only make the situation worse.

              What concerns me is the question of what happens when the organisation collapses (or radically downsizes) and significant numbers true believers are offloaded – Sea Org ‘veterans’ with no documents, job skills or knowledge of the outside world. Time travellers, from a1950’s pulp fiction world, if you will.

              There seems to be a crying need for some form of organisation that will help these people readjust.

            • Galactic Patrol

              Well, I don’t know about a formal organization for ex-Scientologists but I’ll certainly be here for my friends and I think amongst all of us, we have something of a support system for anyone who needs it. Just look at what happened with KJP in Portland the other day when he needed some help. There are a lot of good people out here who are more than willing to lend a helping hand and I’ve even seen offers from some to people who are down on their luck to help them out with a place to stay.

              I don’t think, by the way, that the present management of the Church (Miscavige) is unaware of these problems. I firmly believe that Miscavige is a sociopath who simply doesn’t care about anyone but himself. Captain Miscavige will stay firmly at the helm until the ship goes right over the edge. As to the rest of the Sea Org, I think the outside world and its concerns are not the first thing on their minds. I think most are too wrapped up in the frantic day-to-day demands or their jobs and keeping themselves off the RPF to be able to do much more than what they are told. But I’m sure that the lack of expansion and obvious problems within the Church structure occupy a great deal of their thinking and I believe that as this continues and the demands become worse (which they inevitably will), there will be further exoduses.

              Many people’s eyes were opened and they ran for the hills when the Basics sales insanity was at its worst. The staff and public were being abused left, right and center. I believe such a time of abuse is upon us again with the release of GAT II, as pressure is being put on the staff to sell those stupid Warehouse VIIIs and recover public to pay more and more and more for the “all new Miscavige Super Bridge”.

              How these people are able to read Keeping Scientology #1 and reconcile that with what Miscavige throws in their faces every time he goes up on a stage is truly a fascinating example of cognitive dissoance and irrationality.

            • Once_Born

              Not necessarily a formal organisation… maybe a online clearing house for all of those ‘good people willing to lend a helping hand’. I don’t know what would work -but is seems like a good idea to prepare, just in case the CofS ‘does a East Germany’, and collapses overnight.

              As to Miscavige’s behaviour, there seems to be two theories that go the rounds here:

              1) Miscavige is a self-aware con man, who will flee the country with the reserves, when the organisation starts to disintegrate.
              2) Miscavige is completely isolated from reality, and will, indeed, go down with the ship (screaming abuse at the people who arrest him).

              I favour (2) both both are arguable.

              Either way, we agree that escalating abuse will soon bring about a major exodus of members which will bring the finances closer to crisis.

            • Cece

              Well most of them have family and friends that they once disconnected from and they will know it’s always OK to come home to a true friend.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Thanks GP! You have gone through many of the steps that I did when I got myself unhooked from scientology. Congrats.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Also, just the PRESENCE of protesters is an “outpoint” that the scientology members cannot really ignore.

              If something was not really wrong, those protesters would not be there.

              if scientology had the control, the power, the OTness that it claims, there would never be any protesters. That they exist, in numbers, and are not beaten down degraded people but Laughing, Caeking, singing, dancing well dressed protesters enjoying themselves in good natured poking fun is just too much a disconcerting contrast to what scientology teaches them and tries to tell them.

              I tell you, that penetrates. It is proof of scientology not being what it says it is.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Awesome… thanks!
              I wanted to also point out the elephant in the room that no $cientologist ever seems to want to confront: If they want to counter the ‘few’ (hundreds if not thousands) bitter, defrocked apostates (BDAs) that invent criticisms of the CO$ because of an ulterior motive (money), then why not produce some, even ONE, ex-member who could refute them? The obvious answer is they can’t… which is why they don’t, so it’s more proof that those BDAs are telling the TRUTH!

            • Anonymous

              This is an excellent write-up….dare I say it…Very Well Done!

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Amazing post, Galactic Patrol. (I found it thanks to John P’s blog). May I ask, how long were you in? You sound as if you are an “out all the way” ex, as opposed to a Mike Rinder “LRH is okay; it’s Miscavige’s fault” ex. Did you go through a decompression to get to that point? When you read the Debbie Cook email, what was the next step for you in your evolution of becoming an ex?
              Thanks for all your wise words.

            • Galactic Patrol

              Thank you very much. I’ve always liked your posts too!

              I am indeed an “all the way out”. I can’t say how long I was in exactly but it was a very long time. I’m trying to maintain some semblance of anonymity still.

              Yes, there was and is still a decompression period but I think I’m pretty close to being done with that. I have put the “KSW 100% workability” of Scientology behind me. There are definitely some things in it that have worked for me and helped me and others out but I don’t look on it with slavish devotion any longer. And what I find most discouraging about the tech is that the people who should actually be using it most and best (OSA and those in the Church handling people) are the ones who seem most foreign to its most basic concepts. Guess they need to do The Basics, LOL.

              After Debbie Cook’s email, I really took the plunge and dived into Tony’s past blog postings, Mike Rinder’s blog and, to a lesser degree, Marty’s blog. I also found a lot of links on ESMB and Xenu.net which showed me a lot of “Source references” I’d never seen before and if there was anything that actually “turned me” it was seeing L. Ron Hubbard describe in his own words how to destroy a person’s life if they dared to speak out against Scientology. That was when I realized that Hubbard himself was the source of all that is wrong with Scientology.

              Thanks again for your interest. I’m doing what I’m doing right now to try to spread the word to lurkers and under-the-radars and get them to step out like I did. I think that it will be sooner than later that I’ll be able to come completely out into the sunlight and stop being anonymous. But for now, I am a Lensman-wannabe. 🙂

            • PoisonIvyHerself

              Lovely to meet you. Anonymous or not, it doesn’t matter. You are doing a world of good.
              I’m one of those “never-ins” who is passionate about this subject. I think you’ll find a lot of us “never-ins” who care so deeply are people who’ve suffered our own slings and arrows in ways that remind us to a greater or lesser extent of Scientology. I’ve always been oversensitive to injustice, and I think taking over someone’s freedom of mind is the ultimate injustice. There is a lot of worse criminal activity going on in the world, granted, but here is something right in front of us, masquerading (sickeningly) as a “religion” (which is purported to help people) – and there’s actual positive change going on in toward its demise. So I’m along for the ride.
              Cheers, PI xo

      • Eclipse-girl

        I am glad you escaped and are healing. We look forward to your sharing when you feel you can.

      • monkeyknickers

        We are so here for you.

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        Nicely said.

  • Noni Mause

    This is a very timely story given the national coverage Howard Stern provided yesterday for more scientology lies about disconnection. Hey, Howard! – disconnection is real and it’s happening to people right now. You’re a disgrace to shock jocks everywhere, you sissy. I’d demand an explanation for your egregious failure to confront Ms Alley about her misrepresentation of the truth, but I’m sure your lips are too busy kissing celebrity ass for you to be able to string a sentence together.

    • KJP in Portland

      I think he’s still on dope no matter what he says about being ‘clean’.

    • ze moo

      Stern is becoming like any late night talk show host. He has to deliver an audience and help hype the latest project the ‘star’ is doing. Film and recording artists like this as any publicity gets them mo-money. Fluff and platitudes are all Stern can deliver these days. He is comfortable in his format is not going to bite the hand that feeds him.

      Only the Daily Show with Jon Stewart or Chelsea Handler really bring the lutz to clebs. Handler did a lot on Katie Holmes ‘escape’ last year and helped her small cable TV audience see the crazy. Few hosts have the courage to question the publicity system that feeds them ‘stars’ and the clout to keep the ‘stars’ coming. I would have expected some backlash over Handlers Tom Cruises jokes, but she keeps getting big names to interview. Has the clam clout disappeared or is it just hiding at the moment?

  • PRenaud

    I hope you get all the attention you need to make this public Lori, the world has to know that Miscavige is creating useless lying zombies by killing their heart and soul.

  • . . . Kirstie Alley was on the Howard Stern show this week promoting her new sitcom and Stern stopped painting her posterior with delicate kisses just briefly enough for the subject of Scientology to come up. Alley described Leah Remini’s departure from Scientology in rather unfavorable terms . . .

    I believe Stern did a great job and that some of the criticism he has received is unjustified. It would be foolish, IMHO, to underestimate Stern’s understanding of Scientology and what’s really going on with Kirstie Alley. By providing her with a fair chunk of gentle air-time and just leaving her to be a Scientologist exposed the subject more revealingly than many “question-answer” format interviews have done. Basically, Kirstie Alley has just displayed to the world the fact that her “religion” lies to her about the real-world impact of a key component: the PTS/SP Doctine. The exposure of Scientology’s lies to both its own members, and the public, could not have been more starkly contrasted by Inside Edition’s and the TMZ follow ups had Stern not schmoozed Kirstie.

    And what a contrast it was: Two “celebs”: Kirstie Alley spitting venom, Leah Remini responding with understanding and fond wishes. (EPIC WIN, Leah!) Then Lori, a mum who has lost her children risking all to expose the actual raw pain of disconnection so that others do not suffer the same. (Love ya, Lori. Thank you.)

    What a great start to the weekend.

    • Graham

      Two other significant things came out of the interview for me:

      1) Before she joined she as told it was a cult so she looked up the definition of a cult and despite that was fine with getting involved

      2) What drew her to $cientology was the promise that it would make you rich, as implied by the Mercs and Porsches parked outside the Celebrity Centre.

      • Missionary Kid

        As someone pointed out for your point #2, drug lords also drive hot cars. 😉

      • Anonymous

        Kirstie was almost certainly coached to the Nth degree on several talking point that the church wanted made on the Howard Stern Show…and she made those points thinking that she was addressing the surveyed buttons that her Scientology handlers prepped her for.

        What a sad affair. She will be one of the last folks out the door as the lights go dim. She is just too invested in the mind set to consider alternatives at this late stage of her career.

        If only Howard Stern could see the contents of his dead letter files in various orgs he’d have a slightly different take on Kirstie and Scientology.

      • DamOTclese2

        That is strange, now that you mention it. Why isn’t David Miscavige paying people in India to post fraudulent lies to Twitter? His surviving customers can certainly afford to hire all the cheap slave labor in India David wants. Strange that the insane loon isn’t doing that.

    • Noni Mause

      I have to respectfully disagree, Vista. If Stern has a good understanding of Scientology it wasn’t on show yesterday. I would have preferred that he demonstrate his knowledge by asking her followup questions that challenged her casual dismissal of a very harmful practice. But he didn’t. There’s a plethora of well documented, credible information on disconnection he could have asked her about. That, IMHO, would have revealed more about the true nature of scientologists. Stern’s audience wouldn’t be as well informed as we are. I suspect they’d take Alley’s denial at face value. He handed her a platform to run her scilon spin unchallenged. Unforgivable. To take up your other point: I don’t think the interview shows she was lied to by scientology – I think it showed that SHE lies. She was the ‘mean girl’ leading the charge to disconnect Leah, wasn’t she?

      • Fair nuff, and well said. I suggest that an understanding of Scientology would mean knowing that if you left Kirstie Alley sufficient opportunity she would display the sort of effects it has had upon her. Letting her run the Scilon spin was poignant, she’s clearly mad. At least, that’s what I saw portrayed on Stern’s show and took from they way Leah responded. Or, put it this way: would anyone interested in Scientology genuinely be impressed by what its done for Kirstie as witnessed by her behaviour? I do agree that Kirstie is, herself, deliberately lying. For the “greater good”, I guess. Scientology is also lying, of course. I hadn’t properly considered the market segmentation aspect, I’d just assumed there would be a large cross over and most “eyeballs” would see the three parts to this story one after the other. If so, the audience wouldn’t need to have a deep understanding to get the message. I know, I know . . . I’m stretching it. It could well be that the resulting fall out for the cult is by accident rather than design.

        Now that you mention it, I do seem to recall Kirstie being involved in some kerfuffle. Didn’t she demand some sort of briefing be held to rally the troops to dispose of Leah without sorrow? Something {ethical} like that.

        • ThetaBara

          Right after Leah left, Kirstie sent out a series of tweets attacking (but not naming) her. One was about being with friends at someone’s house – another scilon who has probably also disconnected. It was taken as gloating over disconnection by those who knew the connections, but it could certainly also have been a “how do we handle this?” meeting.

        • Noni Mause

          Hmmm…. perhaps the subtlety was lost on me. Maybe he was ‘giving her enough rope’. She certainly was no advertisement for the consciousness raising capabilities of Scientology, that’s for sure.

      • George Layton

        I’d like to hear Leah on his show.

        • joan nieman

          Leah has been on his show before, a few years back. I am sure he will follow up with having her on again soon.

      • Baby

        Noni.. Oh Stern knew exactly what he was doing.. He has a history of being Anti Scientology.

        Don’t kid yourself about Stern’s audience. They are NOT easily persuaded. He played her like a fiddle. Her true personality came through loud and clear. Social Media comments against the cult are taking over!

        This is exactly what he wanted and got.. ” Buzz..” and if Leah got pulled on the carpet and sec checked for asking about Shelly..

        You better believe that Alley is feeling it today.

        Stern comes across with his stick on a daily basis, but this time.. He wanted her to reveal the truth about Scn. and she did..

        He made a fool out of her.

        • joan nieman

          I watched Stern with Kristie , I saw it that way too, Baby. I think he was working her and I believe he will see if he can get Leah in the near future.

          • Baby

            You better believe it Joan.. and that would be fabulous if Leah would go on.

            That man is nobody’s fool.. He knew exactly what he was doing..ha

        • Noni Mause

          Thanks for your thoughts about this, Baby. I’m not so sure he did make a fool of her. She did that to herself without his help. Having just listened to the link Chocolate Velvet was kind enough to post, there is no doubt hat he is virulently opposed to scientology. He mocked a defenceless baby scilon mercilessly. If he is capable of this, why didn’t he give Kirstie just as hard a time?

          • Baby

            You know Noni.. My thoughts on this.. If he would have been a real A HOLE ( and we all know he has it in him..)

            It would give the { Chirch} fuel to say.. ” See.. We are being persecuted..blah, blah, blah..

            Alley was prepared.. DM prepared her. You know they have listened to Stern talking to the other Scn. She would have had a pat answer readily available ( Being an Actress) she would have been all theatrical ..and trying to ” Sell It..”

            He was letting her feel comfortable .. and letting her more Free Style her thoughts. His intuition paid off. She looked like a nut case.

            and he came off looking like a gentleman who didn’t Browbeat a brainwashed cult member.

            I absolutely agree 100% she did make a fool out of herself, but that said..He didn’t interrupt her to State His Case and there isn’t anyone in his listening audience that didn’t know his TRUE thoughts about this dangerous Cult.

            Or didn’t know that Stern knew in advance that her New Show truly sucked.

            This is a huge Victory for Stern.. and I believe this interview will go down as one of the best he has ever given. He was watching a Train Wreck and it will be talked about for years to come..

            We’ll wait together and see how this is going to be played out..

            • Noni Mause

              Yes, that bit about the possibility of the ‘church’ crying foul if he’d gone in hard makes sense. And you’re right of course, they’d absolutely know his viewpoint. Perhaps he did soft pedal for a good reason (and not because he was too chicken sh!t to take her on). I would dearly have loved him to push her a little harder though. Perhaps he’ll redeem himself (in my eyes) by having Leah or Lori on to talk about things from their side.

            • Baby

              Noni.. I would have given anything to have heard him lay harder on her also.. errrrrgh..

              but after reading your post I was thinking.. She could have very easily stormed out of the interview…the first time that it started going south..( TV land or No TV Land..)

              Leah or Lori.. Tony? Mark B. etc. etc. the list goes on and on.. woo hoo..

    • Chocolate Velvet

      Heres a clip of Howard Stern talking about scientology. It certainly sounds here like he knows the subject fairly well, and is not a fan. Maybe he was just scared of Kirstie, she’s so mean… 😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=jE5LqXbMc_s

      • monkeyknickers

        awesome link, sweets. I hadn’t heard this before.

        🙂

      • Phil McKraken

        I listened to Howard Stern every day for years before he went off radio. He is a master of pretending to be ignorant of any subject when it suits his purpose, when in fact he is thoroughly knowledgeable about everything he’s discussing. Sometimes it’s so his audience can relate to him. His purpose in this case was to make his guest feel at home with a generous dollop of ass-kissing, in the hope of being able to wheedle something interesting out of her. It’s a well-worn formula.

      • monkeyknickers

        Sorry I had to listen to this again.

        How can Lee Baca or ESPECIALLY Farrahkan’s brain-washed army support this shit.

        I canNOT believe people buy into Farrahkan’s cult. And I can’t believe HE is buying in to an out and out racist.

        Well, more importantly, to a TOTAL PASTY IDIOT.

        Anyhow, I expect a jihad any time now. 🙂

      • Noni Mause

        Thanks for the link. I listened to this and the one where he rags on a helpless baby scilon.

    • villagedianne

      I too, wondered if Stern was just giving Alley enough rope.

    • joan nieman

      Right on Visteral!

    • Lori Hodgson

      Your welcome! Sending my love back atcha! ❤️

    • Baby

      Vistaril.. I absolutely Get it..

      Stern is not a Stupid man.. He gave Alley enough rope to hang herself. Look at the Backlash she is getting.

      He baited her.. and wow.. she fell for it. She didn’t know what hit her until Social Media outlets got wind of it.

      Stern ridicules Scn. His viewpoints are well known.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        I agree, I expect Stern to make fun of Alley for weeks to come, saying things like, “can you believe what a bitch she was to Remini? How brainwashed do you think she is to believe Scientology has 10 million members? Do you believe that she said shunning doesn’t exist in the same breath that she said she blocked Remini on twitter? And you know what Robin? Her new show stinks!”

        • Baby

          Bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahhahah That is funny Still..

          That is exactly what he’ll say.. and he will read the comments.. I’m not a Stern fan when it comes to the outlandish Bongo Butt Act.. type bits.. But..

          He is very intellectual. He does not fall for BS of any kind.

          Alley bit his Lure.. It was like Stern was interviewing OJ and said..

          ” Hey your were a great Football player 32.. So you don’t really have a temper, everyone knows that you’re OJ.. ”

          and OJ laughs and says.. ” Well man if I were to hit a b*tch..She would deserve it.”

          This interview with Alley will have the same impact as the Hypothetical interview with OJ would have had.

      • joan nieman

        Aye Aye!

  • Pepsicat

    There was a time when “handling an SP” meant having “good roads, good weather communication” with whomever they felt was in disagreement with them. Now, (or perhaps it was always this way) handling an SP means getting them in the church to do steps A-E; step A being that you regret your actions of leaving the church. I know of several people who have been declared just recently. They are trying to salvage their marriages and their families. But the hard core Scions in the family will just insist, robotically, that they go back in “and get this handled” via steps A-E. Good roads, good weather doesn’t apply any more. Inevitably they are forced to disconnect from the family member when they refuse to go back into the church – even though they aren’t vocalizing any disagreements with the church, even though they are willing to have other family members continue on their services. And when the shunning begins, let me tell you, it really makes an enemy of the church.

    • Once_Born

      Do I have this right? Disconnection is more than “shunning”.

      Not only are there people who are suffering because they have been disconnected from – there are also people who want to leave the organisation who are being forced to (at the very least) go through the motions of supporting the CofS because they are afraid of being disconnected from.

      Membership of the CoS is low and falling – and now it seems that these figures include people have ‘done their steps’ and are nominally Scientologists, but actually hate the organisation with a will?

      Little wonder, then, that they seem to be unable to staff their facilities.

      • Pepsicat

        Not only are there people who are suffering because they have been disconnected from – there are also people who want to leave the organisation who are being forced to (at the very least) go through the motions of supporting the CofS because they are afraid of being disconnected from.

        That’s right Once Born. And how about the SO member that disconnects from “SP Dad” and also decides to never talk to “SP Dad’s” non Scientology family members. That might not be forced disconnection but rather something they choose to do because they can’t defend the actions of their own church so they avoid everyone, putting them even further into that bubble.

    • Galactic Patrol

      This is exactly right. This whole thing has NOTHING to do with following Hubbard’s policies. It has to do with CONTROL and FREEDOM OF INFORMATION. Sorry for the shouting but I really wanted to reinforce those ideas.

      OSA does not care one whit about “handling SPs” or “mending roads” or using “good roads, good weather”. They only care about damage control and keeping as many Scientologists in the flock for as long as they can so they can continue to fleece them for more and more money.

      It’s only about money and control. Nothing else. When you speak out against the Church in any way, you are instantly a target to be destroyed by OSA. Period, end of story. There is nothing else going on there. When you understand that, you will understand that there is no middle ground, there is no compromising with them, there is no “happy place” to go where Scientologists and non-Scientologists can live in peace and harmony despite their disagreements. Not as long as Miscavige and OSA are in charge.

      OSA will never ever ever allow Scientologists to think for themselves. Because they know that is what will bring about the Church’s complete and utter destruction.

      • Eclipse-girl

        Hasn’t scientology always been about the money?

        The way to get the money was to control access and information.

        • Galactic Patrol

          Yes, it has always been about the money. But it needs to be pointed out to those who still believe in Hubbard’s drivel. It has to be pointed out over and over again until it gets through to them. There are some here today who are suggesting to apply Hubbard’s policies in some fashion so as to make peace with or reconcile with Scientologists, as though some common ground will be established that way. I was just pointing out that it won’t ever work because the people who are really in charge within RCS won’t allow it.

      • Once_Born

        I understand that the organisation is ruthless when it comes to enforcing control.

        However, I meant that, due to this policy nominal CofS membership includes a number of potential dissidents who don’t believe but stay ‘under the radar’ to avoid being disconnected from.

        Consequently, when the final crisis comes, the membership will probably dissolve away faster than expected, because not all of them are committed to the cause – there are a substantial number who will be glad to escape from membership (and probably be glad to help it along).

        • Galactic Patrol

          Once_Born, I believe you and I are on the same page. I have no disagreement with anything you just posted and I agree that part of the situation with the Church’s current membership is that there are many still “in” who wish they could be “out” but can’t because of the disconnection policy. I am positive this is the case.

          • Once_Born

            I wonder what proportion of CofS members are ‘true believers’ and how many would just melt away, given half a chance.

            The fewer hard-core members they have, the less likely the organisation is to go down fighting.

            • Galactic Patrol

              I wish I knew! I believe that the only way we will ever find out is for the Disconnection policy to be cancelled. That would separate the wheat from the chaff very fast. And it is for that very reason that RCS will never cancel it.

            • Once_Born

              That’s some catch, that catch 22

            • Robert Eckert

              The other way is for there to be a bunch of mutual recognitions, “Wait a minute– you were only staying in because you were afraid I’d disconnect from you? I was only staying in because I was afraid you’d disconnect from me! Let’s blow this place.”

            • Galactic Patrol

              Yes, Robert, that is exactly what happened to Laura Decresenzo and her own family. IIRC, she was under the same roof as them for over a year before she found out that she and her mother felt the exact same way about the Church but both were too afraid to say anything to each other about it. It’s getting them up to being brave enough to take that first step, to actually say something out loud to someone else (whether on here or in person to a friend or family member), which is the hardest. This is what OSA fights the hardest – the free expression of what you really think or feel. I believe that once the person is able to give voice to his doubts, it’s all downhill from there in terms of getting them out of the bubble.

              And to any lurkers here who are reading this, I don’t recommend that you voice your concerns or questions to an Ethics Officer or to your local DSA. Not unless you are really interested in seeing what “stony silence” and “enforced introversion” and “metered ethics interviews” look like.

              At first you’ll get friendly smiles and what appear to be reasonable efforts to distract your attention away from the “entheta”. What you will not get are any direct or honest answers to your questions. Go ahead and try to find out how many IAS members there are. Ask how many people attended the GAT II event internationally across the world. Don’t accept hyperbole, just real figures. The Church does keep stats of these things. Or ask when the Warehouse VIII was developed. Ask to see some research notes from L. Ron Hubbard’s work. Real notes, not the lecture transcriptions which are currently labelled “Research & Discovery Series”. Try to find out what projects the IAS is currently funding and how much they actually gave to those projects. I think you’ll be surprised as the responses you get.

              Once you tell someone from OSA that you have doubts, your name goes on a watch list. I mean literally – your name is put on a list that is kept in HCO or in the DSA’s office. Your social media will be monitored, your indicators watched constantly and reports on you will go around the org and up the lines to OSA Int. I’m not kidding or exaggerating. Just say something and watch what happens. I dare you.

        • Pepsicat

          …when the final crisis comes, the membership will probably dissolve away faster than expected, because not all of them are committed to the cause – there are a substantial number who will be glad to escape from membership (and probably be glad to help it along).

          You have no idea.

      • Pepsicat

        The more I get away from this cult, the more I realize that not just the policies that are designed to control, but the “tech” itself. Tone Scale, doing things based on the greatest good, confessionals – it’s all designed to control your thought process. And if they control your thought process, they control your pocketbook.

  • Rachel Heidi

    Lori, keep up being “all over the internet!” You WILL get through, it’ll just take that horrible word; time. There’s potential with your son, no question.

  • aquaclara

    Leah is a lovely person. To have to deal with Kirsty’s horrible behavior, on top of the troublesome church, is really way too much. TMZ was actually rather nice here-and Leah was gracious and kind, refusing to bite back at Kirsty’s outrageous comments.

    I am not surprised at Howard Stern. He likes to incite drama and has a high tolerance for inflicting hurt. But Kirsty did herself no favors here. She came off like a bitch.

    Davey will be happy. He probably loves the attention. Compared to the rest of the press he’s getting lately, this may be as good as it gets.

    • ThetaBara

      That TMZ/Leah clip was interesting. Besides very calmly taking the high road, she was all “oh no, the paps, I look terrible” which made me sad to see her still being self-critical. It seemed like DWTS and Tony D were really good for her, but it takes a long time to shake off conditioning. I’m really looking forward to her new show! I’m sure it will help her regain the self-confidence she deserves.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    The discussion of Lori Hodgson ties in very well with yesterday’s posting. I think of my own grown children separated from me, but only by distance, now that it is Christmas time and then I think of what Lori is going through.

    Stern paints himself as an honest man but only becomes one when it is to his advantage. I haven’t listened to him in years, but when I did he mocked Scientology while making sure to lump them in with all other religions.

    Thank goodness for Mark Bunker and people like Mark Bunker. The man has more courage in his little finger than Stern has in his 6’5″ body.

    • Silence of the Clams

      It never bothered me Stern lumped it in with religion, in general. At the root of every religion is a fanciful story – that – when fully vetted, is nonsensical and fraught with inconsistencies and shocking moral choices. Scientology isn’t different, it’s just unique.

      • ThetaBara

        It’s not about beliefs, it is about practices.
        Stern is all about the benjamins, just like scientology. He knows which side the bread is buttered on and he’s just “controversial” enough to keep his flock tuned in, while not risking his meal ticket. Stern is irrelevant, even compared to Oprah.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        My guess, without any special knowledge, is that the Scientologists phoned Stern’s station or their advertisers, calling Stern a bigot, comparing Scientologists to the Jews 0f 1933, threatening legal action and generally making their lives more complicated. Rather than getting their own lawyers, being picketed, being sued like Time Magazine was, Howard Stern maintained a certain freedom of speech while giving Scientology what they wanted. He makes a statement preceding each and every mention of Scientology that they were like the other religions, each one of which has its peculiarities.

        He has been on pay radio for quite a while now. I don’t know what the show is like. It may have changed (though I doubt it). I don’t know if he still does jokes about having a small penis but his testicles are no bigger than a hamster’s.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Lori is no longer an official Scientologist, and that’s her choice, and it’s something that official Scientology has to allow for.

    I’ve advised people to do the good roads and fair weather handling on Scientology, in reverse, treat the official church, in other words, as Hubbard says how to treat “SPs”. And utilize good roads and fair weather on them!

    Just be calm and “high ARC” and when deflecting off Scientology’s insistance that one do their Steps A to E, simply say one is no longer an adherent to official Scientology, and ask the Scientologists to respect one’s change of religious orientation!

    The UN Declaration of Human Rights includes the right to change one’s religion.

    Official Scientology need only be calmly and politely reminded that one chooses NOT to engage in official Scientology’s steps, like if one is no longer an official Scientologist, then one cannot be expected to employ official Scientology’s steps A to E!

    Official Scientology has to respect people’s rights to change their religions away from official Scientology, and not enforce Scientology’s steps A to E on non members!

    The “bridge” area between official Scientology, and ex official Scientologists, is the good roads and good weather zone of communication. Meaning that what should be the agree upon meeting place, to allow meetings of ex members and existing members, would be periods when both sides agree not to talk religion, just like in the world that is the same meeting ground when members of families with differing religious views meet for family reunions.

    Official Scientology should allow their official members and train up their members to at least behave like the rest of the world behaves, when families meet at family gatherings, and just agree to not talk religion, and deflect cheerfully onto topics people can agree on.

    That’d be a simple major change if official Scientology would just allow their members to do the Hubbard good roads and fair weather option, with their “SP” family members, and not require official Scientologists to enforce anything on their “SP” family members, other than what is normal gathering acceptable behavior of not talking religion if it’s going to upset either side.

    • aquaclara

      So your family tried to talk to you about Scientology? I can see how the church’s reinforcement mechanisms make it hard for someone to hear outside news. Love that the encyclopedia was the spark….

    • Silence of the Clams

      I’m sorry but your post doesn’t make much sense. Its not because of the grading scilon speak, but because you are asserting non scilons should not have to use Scientology to communicate to the official church (whatever that means) and the official church should essentially respect that. However all your suggestions encourage them to use the ‘tech’ to make this happen.

      I have to say, I find it irritating when so many ex members continue to speak this way to one another. It’s as if you still wish to be a part of it. In AA, they call this a dry drunk.

      I understand we are all trying our best to save those that are in. I get it. But encouraging them to utilize cult learned behaviors to address that very cult is not helpful. It merely confirms there is ‘tech’ and it must be effective for your stated purpose. Your heart is absolutely in the right place but I think your head is still a scientologist.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Okay, well the “good roads handling” is essentially Scientology’s lingo for outside world “religion and politics are out of bounds discussions at family getogether meetings” is all.

        The lingo is for the exiting members, who are not yet informed of what the outside world’s standards are.

        So, I adjust to the listener, and try quickly to go with outside normal cultural language.

        Scientology’s ruts in the Scientologists’ heads, are heavy ruts, and “positioning” and “viewpoint” Hubbard concepts, I utilize on those coming out.

        Of course, truly, I’d agree, people coming out, in desperate need, best find help with social agencies that utilize NONE of the Scientology indoctrination, agreed.

        On the 866-XSEAORG number, I defer to the Venice Free Clinic, since for sure, outside agencies know for the most part the best ways of assisting those desperately escaped who like you say, should have NO reference back to the abusive group’s lingo, etc.

        But the Steve Hassan and Freedom of Mind theory approach, is what I refer people to use also. Just family understanding what is going on in the cult member’s head, what the cult member’s indoctrination is, and outstepping that, for sure is the right way.

      • Mooser

        I don’t know about you, but I’m getting convinced that it takes some special knowledge and techniques to be effective in helping people get out of Scientology. I can’t even understand (and am very liable to be massively contemptuous of) what got them into it, how the hell can I help get them out of it? I’d probably just go to Loews and get some 2x4s.
        We need people that are willing to do that complicated, and possibly thankless work. I salute them.

      • Peter

        I sense you are another “never in”. You deny the tech you’ve only learned the worst about. A great deal of the lower tech, in particular, works very well. That you seem to refuse that to us and then generate your own personal opinions based on it, makes you very illogical. What you happen to think *may* be correct, or *may* be very incorrect. Your lack of personal knowledge leaves you in a poor place to criticize others. There are many of us who were in, got solid life gains, then left when the idiocy (which exists in all large organizations) became too much to bear. That is has gotten considerably and consistently worse simply makes obvious that our leaving was a wise thing to do. But repudiating the changes we got would be hypocritical, no matter what the “never ins” postulate, believe or condemn. Organized scio is, in my opinion, headed towards death. How long that will take is anyone’s guess. And how the final chapter will be written may surprise and shock all of us…or bore us to tears. I’ve yet to meet anyone who can accurately predict the rolling out of the future.

    • GSioux

      That’s great – your commitment to get ‘accurate info about Scientology’ into the encyclopedias. I would guess it took awhile to narrow down to an effective purpose. I like that – more so since I find it difficult to find a manageable, constructive focus for my need to act with purpose re the destruction Scientology has caused my family.

      Regarding “normal family gathering acceptable behavior”, my extended family is not good at that so I am skeptical Scientology even gives a care about that or the UN Declaration of Human Rights. I am just so happy that I was able to rear 3 children who changed the family tide! Maybe that is enough of a purpose!

    • Peter

      That seems like Hubbard’s dictum, never followed by either him or anyone in the organization, “What you resist, you become”. I find it so odd that so many on this list “HATE” scientology.

      One can take steps to help those in, bring out truth, etc., but I’ve yet to see any “hatred” in any of Chuck’s posts. Lots of facts, lots of truth, lots of humour, etc. But it seems to me if that you drop into “hatred”, or any of the lower emotions, one slides downwards to what people like Kirstie have LEARNED to become. (She wasn’t born that way.) Despising her or ridiculing her weight problems…or anything else about her…simply tells more about the ridculer (is there such a word?) than it does about Kirstie. I personally feel very sad for her as she is creating her own unhappiness and worse.

  • pluvo

    It is obvious that Jeremy’s “voluntary“ decision to disconnect from his mom is done under mind control. Lori got labeled being an ”SP” who has committed “suppressive acts” because of visiting Marty Rathbun
    and then speaking out about the abuses and about that her children have disconnected from her.

    These are “the steps (A-E)” which Jeremy is talking about and is begging his mother to do, before he can have a relationship with her again! This IS official policy in the “Church of Scientology” and I think it should be spread far and wide when “there is no such policy of disconnection” and similar is asserted by people like Kristie Alley and “Spokespersons” of the Church of Scientology to justify their doings and talking about “bigots”.

    “If a person or a group that has committed a suppressive act comes to his, her or their senses and recants, his, her or their only terminal is the International Justice Chief, via the Continental Justice Chief, who:

    A. Tells the person or group to stop committing present time overts and to cease all attacks and suppressions so he, she or they can get a case gain; and stating where possible the influences or motivations which caused them to attempt to suppress or attack Scientology; gets it signed before witnesses and published broadly, particularly to persons directly influenced or formerly associated with the former offender or offenders. The letter should be calculated to expose any conspiracy to suppress Scientology or the preclear or
    Scientologist if such existed;

    B1. Requires that all debts owed to Scientology organizations or missions are paid off;

    B2. May require that, subject to the approval of the International Justice Chief, an amends project suitable and commensurate with the severity and extent of the suppressive acts committed be completed before further A to E steps are undertaken;

    Before any such amends project is begun, the person must submit an Amends Project Petition to the International Justice Chief, using full CSW and stating what he proposes to do as amends, and this must be approved by the International Justice Chief to be considered valid. (Ref: HCO PL 1 May 65, STAFF MEMBER REPORTS, and HCO PL 1 May 65 II, ORDER BOARD AND TIME MACHINE) Evidence of genuine ethics change may be required before approval of the amends project is given. (Examples of such evidence might be, depending upon the high crimes committed: the person has obtained an honest job; has paid off all debts
    owed to others; valid contributions have been made to the community; the person has totally ceased those actions for which he was declared, etc.);

    It is also within the power of the International Justice Chief, when approving an Amends Project Petition, to require, as a protector of the Church and its tenets and membership, that such amends project be carried out entirely off any Scientology organization, mission or network lines, and to require, before the amends project may be considered complete, extensive evidence over a protracted period of time that the person has, beyond any doubt, ceased his or her suppressive actions, has created no problems for the Church or any member of the Church in any way on any line, and has undertaken and completed an action
    which is clearly and undeniably of benefit to mankind;

    C. Requires training beginning at the lowest level of the Bridge at their expense if executives in charge of training will have the person or the group members;

    D. Makes a note of all of the above matters with copies of the statement and files in the ethics files of those concerned;

    E. Informs the International Justice Chief and forwards a duplicate of the original statements which show signatures.”

    • In short – YOU MUST PROVE TO US YOU RELINQUISH COMPLETE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE TO SCIENTOLOGY.

      • HolyCash

        and pay them for the privilege. Oh, and you must Like it.

      • pluvo

        Yep! The “Church’s” blackmail policy.

  • MissCandle

    I commend Lori for keeping up the activity to reconnect with her son and daughter. I liken S-Lying-Tology to kidnappers. Hear me out. Kidnappers often tell their victims that their parents don’t love them, that they are better off without their parents and with the kidnapper instead, and they tell the victim that the victim’s parents are not looking for them. This is all to create a bond with the victim so that they will be more compliant and try not to escape. IMO, this is what S-Lying-Tology is doing to Lori’s son and daughter. By taking such brave and public action, Lori is letting her children know (even if they don’t accept it now) that she DOES love them, she IS fighting for them, and she WON’T give up. Lori is sending a powerful message to her kids. No matter what happens (and I am hoping for the best possible outcome), at least Lori’s children know of her love and that she is not giving them up. Kudos Lori! You have my respect and support!

    • HolyCash

      Stockholm Syndrome

    • ze moo

      Lori’s ex husband seems to be the ‘controller’ in this mess. The move to Texas should help them get out. Being away from big ‘Orgs’ can only help here.

  • Interested

    5 million $ this silly b with an itch KA gave to the cult up to 2008
    See video of young Turks towards the end. http://youtu.be/Y-gaUnvMmGc

    • KJP in Portland

      Do you have any idea how many buildings, in different cities, across the country, coast to coast, that Kirstie could have leased?…

      Leased for youth programs, staffed with volunteers, parental volunteers, community volunteers, to help at-risk or hungry youth?

      If her business manager ‘did it right’, she could’ve had 25-50 youth centers out there, with additional donations pouring in to keep the programs going?…

      BUT WAIT! Here is America, and American celebrities at their ‘finest’. Their world is all about me, me, me, me. It’s all about their ‘immortal me’, and the highest levels of selfishness possible. These celebs believe they can THROW AWAY all that money and get some super-secret otherworldly powers, that may enable them to live to be 200 years old or something.

      Kirstie is such a pig; to spend all that money on lavishing a small, arrogant, sociopathic, egotistical midget that don’t have any Supah-Powaz!

      Just think for a second, everyone, what that $5 million could have done for needy segments of the population (kids first) IF she truly wanted to ‘help clear the World). Instead, her and her ilk-mate Tom Lose, prefer to flush millions down the toilet to get Supah-Powaz that DON’T exist!

      These people need to be shot for displaying such a high degree of Imbecility.

      *fists clenched*…rant over…

      • Interested

        I enjoyed your rant and clapped you on the back. It is obscene. Their money and lifestyle should forcibly be taken from them. I do not mind people who deserve to have wealth, that is one of those things people strive for. But with wealth should come responsibility to those less fortunate. The worst part is this money is, I believe , tax deductible. Shame on your IRS.

      • HolyCash

        “These people need to be shot” another post that includes shooting?

      • Aslansown

        Someone posted this yesterday. I read through it and couldn’t believe how much money she and her husband (but it seems most of it was hers) on themselves and their family. He does allude to buying gifts for disadvanted children at one point, but I was shocked by the obsene amount they blew through so. Just a tiny fraction of it could have helped many, many people. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/kirstie-alleys-high-life-and-times-0

  • A to E is like the Doubt formula. In other words, use Scientology to be OK with Scientology. If you don’t use what Scientology dictates, you’re not a sane person. Which is, naturally, an insane point of view. Do the “Doubt” formula to decide about Scientology? If you use the Doubt formula, you’re doing Scientology. Hubbard’s insane manipulation never stopped.

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Hi Skip. I maintain that the last thing I did in scientology was the ‘doubt formula’. But I did it for real, I got all the data I could find, from wherever I could find it. Regardless of source and regardless of what it said, positive or negative.

      And because I didn’t limit myself to scientology approved ‘sources’, I discovered enough that I could see for real that I could no longer be a scientologist and that hubbard was not what he represented himself to be.

      It is true, if you do the doubt formula, and keep that mental constriction to only the sources scientology ‘approves’, then the doubt formula won’t get you out of scientology. But if you apply it exactly as as written, there is so much that proves scientology is bogus you can’t help but decide to leave.

      That’s just my opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

      • You’re correct, Michael, but Hubbard screwed-up and didn’t put in the formula to NOT consult outside sources. Most of the “lower conditions” are redirection back toward $cientology. That’s because the “ethics formulas” were a made-up construct, illustrated by the fact that he made up one that was ONLY for auditors at Flag, above Power, called Control, based on number of well-done auditing hours. As for the doubt “formula” that’s a very old way of decision called pro and con. Ben Franklin used to draw a line down the middle of a piece of paper and list pros and cons of a situation and decide from there.

  • Interested

    Whilst doing the Saturday clean (yawn) listening to the whole KA interview, I am only at 14 mins but am thoroughly disgusted., so far in such a short time she has discussed the “c” word and all the other names that can be used, she is in the process of discussing Men’s private parts and their size.
    She is the biggest POTTY MOUTH, with the class of a snail, and as much as I want to hear her rants on Leah ( who by the way has shown nothing but class) I cannot go on as I am likely to bring up all over my clean floor.
    There is no excuse for this type of talking on a radio programme that could be heard by children. They will think it is ok to talk like this. IT IS N.o.t. OK!

    This is her Tom cruise moment!

    • Missionary Kid

      Since it is not on the public airwaves, but on a subscription service, generally children don’t listen to it.

      However, Kirstie is a Kunt.

      • Interested

        Thanks MK did not k ow this as I am in the UK. And learning everyday.

        • Missionary Kid

          You’re welcome. Since you used the British spelling, I figured you might not know. I still sometimes find myself using British spelling occasionally because I went to the first form in Hong Kong over 60 years ago.

      • joan nieman

        Woo Hoo! You said it Mk!

  • aquaclara

    I have been in tears watching Lori try to simply talk with her son. This tears me up. Wishing Lori all the best in getting her children back, and so glad she had time to really talk with her son. I hope even just a few bits of what she said made it through to him. The pain he must be feeling is hard to imagine.

    Hugs also to the owner of the shop, who let them have this time together. Inside Edition did a good job with the juxtaposition of these stories, and for giving her both protection and space.

  • dvdoff

    Let’s not forget that the Howard Stern of today is not the Howard Stern from terrestrial radio.He’s old and rich now with a hot wife. He’s become that same person he spent years mocking. So now that he’s fat and happy, why not kiss celebrity ass now instead of telling truth to it? The Alley interview was disgusting in the way that Stern glossed over Travolta being gay and Alley’s blind subservience to the CoS. He just let her ramble on about the wonderful work the Church is doing. Quite frankly, I thought they both just embarrassed themselves.

    • Sam Domingo

      Lori sent Howard Stern a copy of her video and challenged him to interview her. Wonder if he’s got the balls?

      • Crimsontide

        I seriously doubt he does. I’m afraid if he did grow a set and interviewed her it would be awful. He comes off to me as having zero compassion.

        • Mooser

          “I seriously doubt he does. I’m afraid if he did grow a set and
          interviewed her it would be awful. He comes off to me as having zero
          compassion.”

          It’s an awful world, isn’t it?

      • stillgrace2

        How about it, Howard Stern?! Just answer the question! Do you have ANY BALLS?
        I cannot believe what you have turned into … a “pseudo-celebrity” ass kisser.

      • joan nieman

        I hope so.

    • Missionary Kid

      Howard, I believe, has always been on the side of what gets him another interview. He will ask someone about their sex life, which is embarrassing to a person, but he pretty much lets them get away with what they say.

      After all, he got publicity on Good Morning America about Krusty being on his show, where they hyped it as a “feud”

  • Sam Domingo

    You should know how brave and determined Lori and her mother Dee have been throughout the process leading up to this moment and how many times Lori has had to pick herself up off the floor and carry on against seemingly impossible odds to get her children back. The morning Lori was due to fly to tape this show she messaged me that she had broken her toe. Despite being in crushing pain Lori strapped her toe together as best she could, threw some pain-killers down her throat, jammed her feet into shoes and got on a plane anyway. Nothing will keep her from being re-united with her children and I pray that some day her children will understand that nothing is stronger or more true than the love of their mother who has never once given up on them and never will. Worth coming home for huh kids?

    • HolyCash

      I’d like to see Leah Remini send out a Video Christmas Card to the media wishing a Merry Christmas to all families who have been an empty place at the table because of Scientology’s disconnection practicies and a hang in there and hope for all to be reunited this New Year.

      Something like that. Short and to the point.

      • Sam Domingo

        Maybe we can whack one together that anyone can print off and send with Lori’s family on the front? Enough talented shoopers here.

  • dwayners13 .

    I realize Lori Hodgson’s story is only one of many examples of scientology’s disconnection , however I think it is a perfect example to show the world how this “church” really operates. It shows how truly evil the church is by forcing two children to decide between the “afterlife” that they have grown up to believe in & the loving mother who raised them. If that isn’t evil, I’m not sure what is. There is nothing like a mother’s love, especially one as devoted & caring as Lori & to tell a child that choosing that love will end any chance of eternity, is a special kind of evil. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of families that have been ripped apart because of Scientology’s policy of disconnection & the more they are exposed, the less likely they are to occur in the future. I applaud Inside Edition for showing this story & hope other programs do the same.

  • Observer

    OT, because I’m finding this topic unbearably painful today. All this suffering because of one madman’s gobbledygook.

    Tip of the hat to SuppressiveTomato for finding and posting the handwritten copy, and for uttering the immortal line “I feel like blackness has been dumped on my thetan.” Somehow, some way, someday I will shoop that. But for now, the latest in the Truth About Ron series.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      I too find the emotion of Lori and Lisa’s story overwhelming.
      Here is some Lulz that ShoopZ did yesterday….
      http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/733/7333/original.jpg

      • Observer

        I love ShoopZ’ retro aesthetic. Uh-oh, I used the A-word …

        • Missionary Kid

          No, you didn’t. The A-word for LRH is “asshole.”

          • Observer

            Agreed, but I was referring to the Scientologists’ FB screenshots Black Rob posted after the SP opening. It was the usual gushing river of theta, but almost all of them made reference to how “aesthetic” the building was. It never showed up in their posts before, but suddenly it was all over the place. I wonder if Davey used it in his speech.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks.

            • i-Betty

              Ha!

    • D.Y.G.

      If someone had just handed me the words without citing the author, I would assume it was poetry written by an unmedicated schizophrenic.

      • Robert Eckert

        You would assume correctly.

        • joan nieman

          Lol!

  • LeeAnneClark

    I don’t comment much over here these days…by the time I get to the stories, they usually have hundreds of comments and I can’t keep up. But I read everything, and the Lori stories always smack me right in the heart. Probably because I’m Mom to a young man and woman as well, and I would be devastated if I was kept apart from them.

    Lori, don’t give up! You are so incredibly strong, and I will keep rooting for you. Tony, thanks for keeping us up to date. I will celebrate when Lori finally frees her children from the cults evil clutches. And it will happen. Their hold on the mind is dependent on keeping them blind, and Jeremy’s eyes are opening. Once that happens, it’s only a matter of time before basic logic wins out.

    The cult is failing. Miscavige may have more money than many nations, but he’s losing his people. Personally I don’t think he really cares… He’s just dragging it out as long as possible to keep amassing his fortune. When the cult implodes, he’ll go scurrying off into the sunset with his treasure. Which sucks, but at least people will stop being victimized.

    One final note… I met Tory Christman at the TomKat show in LA. What a delightful person! So gracious and sweet. Her selflessness in continuing to fight the cult to help others, in spite of the personal toll, is inspiring.

  • chukicita

    Marty points out that Kirstie Alley lied on the air about shunning. Might be a good time to review Scientology’s TR-L drills and the holy concept of ‘acceptable truth.’ For instance, she could say that with a straight face because they don’t call it ‘shunning’ internally, but ‘disconnection.’ Just like there was no basement in the Ft Harrison, because they called it something else.

  • 10oriocookies

    Mark Bunker is awesome! Clearwater officials should be considered co-conspirators if they don’t put the cult in their place. Crimes against humanity happen every day at their doorstep. Time to man up CW.

    • ze moo

      There isn’t much that Clearwater can do re the clampire. A proper application of the sign laws would have resulted in a few thousand dollars in fines and god knows how much in legal fees to actually enforce it.

      It is going to take federal level action to do any real damage to Miscavige. I really do wish the FDA would do something about the health clams that the clams make, but as they make almost all of the promises verbally, prosecution is very difficult.

      The Garcias suit could be a real game changer. Fraud and violation of the 93 IRS could do a lot of damage. We can hope……

      Can Miscavige sleep at night with out his ‘mark bunker’ update? I hope not….

      • monkeyknickers

        “Clampire” is the awesomest thing I ever heard. Even more awesome than “roaring vagina”. I can hardly function now. :)))

    • Snippy_X

      There are a few things they could do. They could educate their police force about the true nature of this corporation. Before cops moonlight for the CO$, they could be briefed on the real history of this group of trained pathological liars. There are a few on the force who would do well to understand that:

      Protestors are not terrorists or a bigoted hate group, contrary to what the church has told them. They are friends and family of the victims of the CO$.

      Protestors have a RIGHT to expose the scam and human rights abuses of the CO$. There is no a priori reason to treat them in a hostile or dismissive way.

      Blocking church members view of protestors is aiding the CULT in isolating their members and controlling the information they have access to.

      The Hacienda is a cult prison. Passports are locked up. The word “voluntary,” when used by the CO$, does not mean what a normal person thinks it means.

      Debbie Cooks hearing: page 201:
      [She had agreed to meet with them, but not at the Hacienda Gardens. They took her there anyway.]

      I called my mother, and I said — I told her that I was
      trying to leave and that this was really dragging out.
      And — she knew the circumstances in which I came back.

      She had also expected it to only take a few days because
      I had told her that. So I told her, this is really
      dragging out, so — that I was going to tell the church
      that basically if I wasn’t out in three days that I’d
      instructed her to call the police.
      Q. And you called her on a cell phone. Did you
      get a Scientology-issued cell phone when they drove you
      into the Hacienda Gardens?
      A. No. It was like a throw-away phone that we’d
      bought while we were — when we were out, when we’d
      originally first left, and we refused to turn it back
      in. We refused to give it in. And so I kept it with
      me.

      Q. That was the one thing you successfully
      resisted?
      A. That’s right.
      Q. And in fact, was Wayne threatened with violence
      if he didn’t turn over the phone?
      A. Yes, he was.
      Q. Wayne is a pretty big guy, isn’t he?
      A. Yes, he is.
      Q. He’s martial arts trained?
      A. Yes, he is.
      Q. He won that battle?
      A. Yes, he did.

      Q. You wrote a letter, as you described, saying
      that you were going to call your mother. You also
      threatened to harm yourself if you were desperate
      enough?
      A. Yeah. Well, after the phone call, then I wrote
      a letter and I basically said that I’d told my mother
      that if I wasn’t out in three days to call the police,
      and that if for any reason that that didn’t work that I
      would take whatever steps necessary to get out, even if
      I had to slit my wrists, something along those lines.

      Q. As a Scientologist, do you believe in
      committing suicide?
      A. No, I don’t.
      Q. Is that beyond the pale for you?
      A. It is, yes.
      Q. Is that how desperate you are that you would
      even threaten that?
      A. Yes.

      Q. (BY MR. JEFFREY) You’re in the Hacienda Gardens.
      What keeps you from getting out of bed, walking out the
      door, and going back to North Carolina or San Antone,
      Texas?
      A. Well, there’s — there’s guards. It’s
      basically — it’s — clearly, I’m not able to leave.
      I — I now have no vehicle to leave with, and I have
      security guards security cameras, an 8-foot or
      higher — at least 8 feet high fence. And the only way
      out is through the security guards.
      Q. What kind of security precautions were on that
      fence? Was there anything to alert someone if someone
      grabbed onto the fence?
      A. There were motion detectors.
      Q. Was there a gate in the fence around this
      entire compound that a pedestrian could walk up and open
      the gate and just walk out?
      A. No.
      Q. Was there a gate controlled by guards by which
      vehicles could drive in and out?
      A. Yes.
      Q. Is that how you came in?
      A. Yes.
      Q. Is that how you finally left after two or three
      weeks, on October 19 of 2007?
      A. Yes.
      Q. Aside from the physical constraints, what were
      your orders from the church as to whether or not you
      could leave?
      A. We clearly were not able to leave. It was —
      it was expected that I would — that they would take
      us — they would do whatever they were going to do
      before we would be given authority to leave, which could
      have been months.

      • Mooser

        Ads up to a lot of people besides Miscavge getting prosecuted, don’t it.

        • Snippy_X

          Yes, maybe we need a deck of playing cards with their pictures on them, eh?

          • KJP in Portland

            Like the ones with Saddam Hussein on them and all his cronies.

            • Snippy_X

              Yes, exactly like that 😉

  • Eclipse-girl

    Holiday Card Project

    with thanks to From Poland with Love, Ruby and Miss Tia

    http://misstia.com/mailtech.html

    • Sam Domingo

      I was thinking this would be a good Christmas card with a bit of tweaking – Lori has it posted as her profile pic:

      • Ruby

        ok. That just set the eyeball waterworks into play for me.

  • Galactic Patrol

    “She tried to make him understand that she didn’t care if he was still attached to Scientology, she just wants to have a relationship with him and his sister. “I told him, I’m not the one trying to force a Sophie’s choice on you.”

    “But Lori says her son is still thinking like a Scientologist, and told her that he worried that talking to her would “threaten his afterlife.”

    And right there is the exact problem in a nutshell. It is not just a matter of appealing to their good sense or their love for their family. That alone will not overcome the individual Scientologist’s decision to stay disconnected. Because these people are brainwashed into thinking their eternal soul is at stake if they talk to someone! The specifics of how the brainwashing is done were described by Jeff Hawkins yesterday in excruciating detail on this blog.

    This is why the only real solution is to reveal the long con for what it is. It’s not enough to say “disconnection is wrong” or “look at these poor people who are being separated from their familes.” That works for people who are not in Scientology and keeps them away and it must be said. But when you are talking about handling Scientologists, the cognitive dissonance knows almost no bounds. They willingly accept the fact that they “have to” disconnect from their loved ones or face an eternity of pain and darkness, alone and ruined. As can be seen above, in the end it is not the Church that is enforcing the disconnection – it’s her own kids.

    It will stay that way until her kids realize that L. Ron Hubbard has been lying to them from the beginning and their eternal soul is not at stake. Their souls are just fine.

    It is a tragedy, one amongst many when it comes to this cult. We all have been making an impact by getting the word out on media lines about Hubbard’s lies, his corrupt GO/OSA policies, the proven unworkability of its “tech”, Miscavige’s corruption and abuse. Every commenter and blog poster makes a difference. Heroes like Mark Bunker, Tony Ortega, Marty Rathbun, Ray Jeffrey, Mark Rinder, Andreas Heldal-Lund, Michelle “Emma” Sterling on ESMB and many others are leading the charge and putting their own personal security at risk by doing so. We don’t all have to step up to that level. There’s nothing wrong with being a follower. Just don’t be an idle spectator. If you have been lurking on this blog, I hope you will step in and join the fight. It’s not hard. Just express yourself.

    The Church of Scientology’s disgusting and inhumane practice of disconnection which was written by L. Ron Hubbard and enforced by OSA and Miscavige must come to an end. Expose their lies and it will.

    • Sidney18511

      Good post Galactic. I agree. Yesterday I was looking around a site put up by some FZ’s where they posted LRHs original writings and lectures. It was in one of his lectures that he states that someone worrying about their “eternity” is wrong, because “eternity” does not exist?

      I believe it was in his Philadelphia congress, around page 600 ( the entire lecture is over 1000 pages).

      It stood out to me for the very reason that so many disconnected sclions talk about not wanting to “lose their eternity”.

      I will try to find it.
      http://www.stss.nl/index.php

      • Galactic Patrol

        Excellent. Please post whatever you can find.

        I think the most powerful LRH references to post that will shed the most light on what Hubbard and Scientology are actually all about are the confidential GO/OSA issues which directly and explicitly state to destroy the lives of people who speak out against the Church. It doesn’t get any more blatantly wrong than that.

  • Jeb Burton

    Really? Inside Edition? She thought this tabloid trash show was the way to go? I would question that judgement. But I guess she is desperate. I really cant blame her misguided son for being pissed, sounds to me like he was ambushed by TV cameras.

    • Sidney18511

      Jezus Jeb. There are times that you stick your 2 cents in and you come across rude, nasty and ignorant and you should just keep your pie hole shut.

      This post of yours, is one of these times.

      Pie hole.
      Shut.

      • Mooser

        You should be nicer to Jeb. He lives in Clearwater, I believe. Do you want to drive him right into the arms of the cult? Actually, I bet he could walk there.

      • Missionary Kid

        Loved it. I bookmarked that one.

      • Sidney18511

        GCL…..LOVED that! but in JB case, he needs something a wee bit bigger then a cup. Maybe a BATHTUB would do?

      • marti

        @Get Chutney Love, So succinct.

    • HolyCash

      So what you are saying is you are the expert on pissing, ambushing, and misguiding trash?

    • Mark Bunker

      Inside Edition did three really great episodes on Lisa McPherson.

      • Just Dee

        Mark, I’ve heard you speak on more than one occasion in Clearwater. You really should run for mayor!

      • Jeb Burton

        I hope it works for her. It could backfire. I think secretly recording him, and she was, she said he didnt ask and she didnt tell him, was wrong. And then when he asked her to stay and talk without the tv crew, she said she couldnt without the security of inside edition.

        • NOLAGirl

          WHO CARES??? She got to talk to her son. Do you have any idea what that must mean to a mother??? Instead of trashing that, couldn’t you just be happy that she got those moments with her child and that he may be starting to see the truth?

          • joan nieman

            So right Nola….so very right!

        • Michael Leonard Tilse

          Ah, but had scientology known or arranged this meeting, Jeremy would have been wired and scientology would have multiple cameras itself. And I think that Jeremy would have been coached on what to say and to not reveal he was recording.

          He probably knows this too. It might penetrate that what she did, and when he asked she did tell him she was recording, is in contrast to what scientology itself would do.

          I don’t think it is as much as a backfire as you might think. it did give him a hook to hang his programmed objections on, the ‘supressive act’ of recording.

          But she got to talk to him. And he didn’t walk away. They talked. That is HUGE!

          She renewed the connection.

      • Toni M.

        Hi Mr Bunker, I just want to tell you how much I admire you. I can’t wait to see you documentary. You are my hero.

    • Just Dee

      When a mother is fighting to see her children, she will shout it out to anyone and everyone who will listen. Lori did a great job & I commend Inside Edition to put it out there. Who cares if it’s tabloid or not!

    • Missionary Kid

      When you report to Ethics for reading Entheta, be sure to tell them how you confronted us and we were {shattered, just shattered.}

      • stillgrace2

        Jeb isn’t a sciloon, MK.

        • Missionary Kid

          I did that because it was a $cion type of attack.

          Inside Edition does tend to be pretty much of a lowbrow tabloid, but Lori is a desperate woman, and Co$ hates negative publicity.

          If I were in her shoes, I’d use ANY means I could to get through to my child. I imagine he’s going to get sec checked over talking to his mom, and after they listen to the recording, if he didn’t tell them everything that’s on the recording, they’ll come after him again. I hope that helps him to leave.

          • stillgrace2

            The national exposure can only help. Doesn’t mean Jeb’s a sciloon. Unsympathetic and short-sighted, maybe, but not a member of the cult.

            • Missionary Kid

              I knew he wasn’t a $cion, but his post sounded like a $cion would, so I replied in kind.
              It was to make him aware how he sounded.

    • SandiCorrena

      It’s NATIONAL exposure-the BEST kind!

    • George Layton

      Remember Jeb, Random acts of kindness.

    • Aslansown

      I think it’s an inspired choice because it’s an extremely popular show that people who like “celebrities” watch. They are the general public who may know nothing about scientology except that Tom Cruise is in it. These people may never watch Anderson Cooper or 60 minutes or Dateline or any other news program that investigates the cult, but now they’ve seen and heard something that they might otherwise never have known about that might at least plant a seed.

    • Mooser

      Jeb, he must be a wonderful kid. My mom couldn’t wait to get rid of me.

    • Guest

      What parent would further exploit an adult child in the media as a solution deal with an adult child they perceive is being victimized? I could see if an adult child was kidnapped against their will while hiking through North Korea. Parents sometimes disregard their adult children’s wishes and all it does it create a greater rift between them. Some parents think they know best and treat their children as possessions. Those attention seeking parents who ambush their kids on Jerry Springer, Maury, Sally Jessy Raphael etc. ‘Maury, my child is out of control, please help me”, come to mind. It is controlling behaviour and most sensible adult children would reject it.

      • Sandy

        Happy Saturday & welcome to the Bunker again. Your tactics are getting yawns from most Bunkeroos – it has been too many days in a row. Time to switch gears …

  • Mary_McConnell

    Bravo to all in this article who got the word out, who helped facilitate that brief reunion and made it known to millions of listeners, who reminded the City of Clearwater who they are dealing with. We have a voice and kudos to those using it~!

  • Mark

    “…and Stern stopped painting her posterior with delicate kisses just briefly enough for the subject of Scientology to come up.”

    Well, if you must paint such unsettling word-pictures, Tony:

    • Suzy

      I was going to take the high road but, oh well. ITS LIKE PAINTING A MURAL!

      • KJP in Portland

        And she looks like such a s___.

  • Lemont

    I wonder how the brainwashed Scientologists who disconnect from their family would respond to claims of religious discrimination. If a family member said “No, I can’t do Steps A to E, because I don’t believe in Xenu anymore.” “It’s my religious right not to believe in Xenu, and it’s religious discrimination to punish me for my beliefs.”

    • HolyCash

      Yes. It is religious persecution in reverse.

  • Lori Hodgson

    Thank you Tony for sharing more in depth the conversation I had with my son on my recent trip to Texas.
    I got this opportunity with Inside Edition presented to me about 5 weeks ago. Originally, they were going to cover my ‘disconnection’ story in my son, Jeremy’s room, at my San Jose home. Then we decided to do the story in Austin Texas so I could have the chance to see my kids. We planned this trip in a way that Scientology could not track us. We had no idea of Jeremy’s work schedule and after Inside Edition interviewed me, we headed off to my sons work. I saw his truck so I knew he was working that day. The part I didn’t know was whether he would be receptive to talking to me. It went better than I ever imagined, we ended up talking for 2-3 hours. It was a miracle!! Not only did I get to spend that much time with him, my Mom got to see him and they hugged one another.
    The trip was a success! I got to see my son, I got him to see why I can’t go back to Scientology to do the A to E steps. He understands and now knows that for us to be together me going back is not an option.
    I know he loves me and I know he hates this ‘disconnection’ that he is being manipulated to go through. He asked me “what do we do Mom?” I told Him “Son, I’m giving you all my courage to tell Scientology you want both your parents…that’s all you have to do!” I’m hoping that with all I left him to think about and the TRUTH I shared, he will have the courage to tell Scientology just that.
    Please Jeremy, if your reading this, let’s end this painful ‘disconnection’ right now and be a family again. Don’t let another day go by that you let Scientology keep your family broken apart.
    We all miss you!!!! Including your Grandparents, Aunts, Uncles, friends, and your Mom who will never give up fighting for you and your sister. I love you both more than anything!! This ‘disconnection’ will end!!

    • Observer

      I pray your ordeal is over soon, Lori. Your courage and determination will pay off.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thank you Observer! Me too! ❤️

    • Eclipse-girl

      we are all hoping , praying, wishing that your children will start to change their mindset and demand the right to communicate with their mother.

      (((HUGS)))

      • Lori Hodgson

        Me too and I hope they do that for Christmas so we can all be back as a family again! Hugs to you Eclipse-girl! ❤️❤️❤️

    • i-Betty

      You’re amazing, Lori. You never, ever stop fighting and one day both your children will realise how hard you fought for them and they will love you so much for it. We love you, too 🙂

      • Lori Hodgson

        Love u guys too and thank you for all your support! ❤️

    • ze moo

      Your son has begun to leave the clampire already. He’s only taken baby steps, but he did take steps. Someday he will finish the ‘out the door’ journey. We can only hope that the rest of the family goes out the same door.

    • Ruby

      Once one sees truth, as your son is now beginning to see, they can’t unsee it. Your boy will be home. Love to you, Lori, and family.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thank You Ruby! Jeremy sees the Truth now!! ❤️

    • Mark

      My thoughts are with you and your family. You are very brave.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thanks Mark! ❤️

    • NOLAGirl

      Lori, this made my morning. Such good news to wake up to. I’m so happy that your son is slowly starting to peek behind the curtain. You’re an amazing mother and you have many supporters in your fight. ((((HUGS))))

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thanks NOLAGIRL and big {{{Hugs}}} back atcha! ❤️

    • Bernie Headley

      The thing about this “battle” is that when WE win, EVERYBODY wins. Your son and daughter have EVERYTHING to gain and nothing to lose! Keep up the good fight.

      • HolyCash

        Poignant point. That seems to be the theme now. David Miscavige has thrown everyone up against the proverbial wall and thrown them back down to the bottom to start all over and pay all over. Even the whales and celebs are now his playthings. No more free passes.

        Each one has everything to gain now. They have already lost it all. Best wishes for happy holidays this season for all.

      • Lori Hodgson

        I will Bernie! I told Jeremy that we are not the only disconnected family that there are hundreds and I’m fighting to end disconnection for all of us!!

        • monkeyknickers

          Rock ON. 🙂

        • NOLAGirl

          Lori, you can’t “unhear” the the things your mother has told you. Someday, when we have the time & place to do it, I’ll tell you how something my mother (a nurse) told me offhand, saved my life.

          It may take awhile, but you raised a smart young man, he will come around.

    • Sidney18511

      So happy for you Lori! You did the right thing by showing him the truth of what the COS is doing to you.

      Do you feel you told him most everything that you wanted to, or are you running through your mind things that you wish you should of said?

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thank You Sidney! Yes, I feel I was able to share the things I’ve been wanting to tell him for a long time and now he knows the whole Truth.

    • chukicita

      Love is strong, and so are you!

      • Lori Hodgson

        ❤️

    • Sam Domingo

      Keep going Lori. Keep the dream alive xxx <3 <3 <3

      • Lori Hodgson

        I will Sam!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

        • monkeyknickers

          Much love, sweet girl. I wish Ashleen (my niece whose mama is in the cult) and I could give you a big hug right now.

          She’s good at hugging, that little.

          But seriously, the dog gives the best sugar around. 🙂 I’ll have to send them by post to you. 🙂

    • And I’m Cute, Too

      Lori,

      I just read what Sam Domingo wrote about all the physical pain you endured during this time, along with all the dread and uncertainty.

      Love + courage + determination makes you an awesome, amazing mother. Your children can’t help but see it someday.

      Praying for you!

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thank you! ❤️

    • stillgrace2

      Lori, I am a “neighbor” of yours in SJ, and I want you to know that you have my admiration and 100% of my support for how you fight for your children. You are on the side of LIGHT, fighting true EVIL and I celebrate you!

      • Lori Hodgson

        TY stillgrace2! Come by and say hi. I would love to meet you. ❤️

    • Just Dee

      You did great, Lori! I hope more media outlets start reporting on this travesty. I am really happy you had that time with your son & hope much of what you said sinks in…..
      Hugs xoxo

      • Lori Hodgson

        TY Just Dee! Me too! XOXO

    • Truthiwant

      Jeremy, if you’re reading this, listen to your Mum! She loves you.
      I was in Scientology for years and left when I found out about the disconnection, the families that were broken apart and other things that I just could not accept as a person.
      I’m doing great now. Much, much better than when I was ‘in’.
      I was lucky that I never had to disconnect from anybody in my family. Thank goodness, It would have broken me. And I just want to say this Jeremy, your family is the most important thing you will ever have, and that’s the truth.

      • HolyCash

        What Truthiwant says. No one OWNS your eternity. And who wants to live forever and over and over with sec checkers in every corner of your mind and no family in any piece of your heart?

        Your future, Jeremy, depends on love not sec checks or soup cans.

    • joan nieman

      Lori, I am so happy for you that you connected with Jeremy. Love is stronger than anything. I am certain he will see that soon. Lots of love to you. You are a true and wonderful mother.

      • Lori Hodgson

        TY Joan! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

    • Robert Eckert

      Even the thickest ice does break up and melt, faced with enough sunshine.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDZqmF3zS04

      • joan nieman

        Robert, my son and I wrote down your statement for our bulletin board. I love it!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Lori I am so glad that you had such a long visit, and hugs. It sounds positive that Jeremy has seen the info on the internet and wants to reconnect with you, he is just struggling to figure out how. Blessings to you and your kids and I truly hope you will be reconnected soon. Disconnection is so evil – I had a close family member disconnect from me for several years and although we are back in touch, they remain deep in the mindset of this dangerous cult.

      • Lori Hodgson

        I’m glad at least you are back in touch with your family member! That’s a start! Thank you for your positive thoughts
        for me and my kids reunion. ❤️

    • KJP in Portland

      (((HUGS))) Lori!

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thanks! {{{HUGS}}} back atcha!

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Lori, I am convinced your son will come back to you soon. He hasn’t left you of his own free will. The disconnection has been forced on him. If he truly thought you were SP, he never would have hugged you and talked to you for three hours ( or looked up the website). You gave him a loving, happy childhood. The disconnection game plan cannot defeat that, especially when he works outside of the church and sees his co-workers and customers in loving families preparing for Christmas together. I believe Jeremy wants very much to come home to you, and something is going to happen in the near future that will allow him to do that. Perhaps it will be a realization that the church is wrong, or perhaps it will be a recognition that he can be an independent Scientologist, or it could simply be that he misses you. I am convinced it will happen.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Your message brought tears of Joy to my eyes. Thank you for sharing this with me. You made my day! Inside Edition told me Yesterday that they are counting on airing another segment when I reunite with my kids. I told them I can’t wait for that day!! I also feel it will be soon! ❤️❤️❤️

        • aquaclara

          Lori, you did so well….I hope and believe that more will happen to bring your son back to you. He knows that you are there, and love him. Wow. Now the cult will do their best, and it may be bad for a wee bit more, but there will be a day soon where he is back with you, safe and sound. And then your daughter will hopefully follow. This is the start.

          Take care and God bless you and your family. You are not alone….and we do not give up.
          Hugs and cheers!

          • Lori Hodgson

            Thank you for your positive thoughts and support! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      You connected! He stayed and talked and even looked at stuff on the internet with you.

      These are huge positive signs things are changing for him. I’m sure you know it takes time, he has a lot to work through but your support and fierce lion mother caring has gotten through. He knows he can count on you. And soon he will experience that he cannot count on the {church}.

      You did good.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thanks Michael! It went better than I ever expected!!!

      • Ruby

        Michael, off topic here, but wanted to ask you what address do I send to with a gift for Monkeyknickers and babies?

        • aquaclara

          I will send it to you in the morning….:)

          • Ruby

            Thank you! 🙂

          • Ruby

            I found it, Aqua, in one of your earlier posts. 🙂
            Thank you!

    • Garry Scarff

      Thank you, Lori, for your courage of speaking out. And I’m happy to have made the “very poor recording” of your interview which was mirrored by others & received alot of attention. I have been on the receiving end of alot of gratitude for taping the program & making it available to the masses around the world that don’t have ‘Inside Edition’. I’m grateful that you appreciated my amateur efforts to tape the program, even if Tony O doesn’t.

      • Robert Eckert

        Yes, many of us appreciate your effort.

      • HolyCash

        I caught wind of it by luck yesterday, posted the link and already credited you. Thanks again. Some things I can wait a day or two for, but Lori seeing her son again wasn’t one of them. Really appreciated seeing it right away.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Yes, Garry your video let so many of my friends see the show that can’t get Inside Edition. I am very grateful to you for doing that for me. Your a great friend and thank you for always being there! ❤️

      • aquaclara

        Thank you, Gary! And by being there, you were also making sure things stayed calm. What a great event. I hope there will be many more.

    • Chee Chalker

      You planted a seed with your son…..it may take some time for the flower to bloom, but I think Jeremy will see the truth one day. It will be interesting to see how the Co$ reacts this. Let’s hope that, like with everything else, they overplay their hand and Jeremy’s eyes are fully opened to the evilness of tearing a mother from her children. Good job Lori!

      • Lori Hodgson

        TY Chee Chalker! I don’t think Jeremy will put up with the manipulation much longer! I think he sees it real clear!

    • BlueJene

      It’s wonderful that you got to spend that amount of time with him talking about what really matters! For him to listen and look up what you describe surely points to him at least thinking about where he finds himself. My wish for you is that one day soon your children will be back with you.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thank you! ❤️❤️

    • Doug Parent

      Lori you rock! Your strength and determination is truly inspirational. Message to all Scientologists everywhere: DEMAND AN END TO DISCONNECTION NOW. Hubbard cancelled it, several times and has spoken in recorded lectures to the point that anyone who was ever a Scientologist was a person of good intentions. Period. Miscavige is using Disconnection to prevent information about his abuses from spreading. Period. Disconnection is dragging Scinetology through the mud in the WORLD VIEW. Scientology as a brand is toast, forever. Don’t try to pin it on Lori, and NO ONE should ever have to to A to E to see their son or daughter. NO ONE. Lori is no longer a Scientologist, and that is NOT A CRIME.

      • Lori Hodgson

        Thanks Doug! ❤️

    • Lifter1968

      How much did Inside Edition pay you?

  • HolyCash

    Lori got three hours with her son. And a hug. And a real conversation. And a phone number. And heard that he missed her. And heard that he wanted to see her. And learned he knows disconnections are happening. And learned what is being done to his mother. And another spotlight has just been shone on her son as a victim of Scientology’s chilling control.

    This was so much more than baby steps. This was a giant leap of faith and ocean full of hope.

    Very happy to hear this news. Christmas wishes it ends soon for all.

    • Suzy

      And learned that he IS reading the internet. How many Scientologists are furtively reading the internet on their cell phones in secret, but don’t know how or when to get out? Trapped in a nightmare.

    • joan nieman

      It was surreal and absolutely wonderful!

  • SandiCorrena

    What timing Kirstie had mouthing off on Howard Stern’s broadcast so that Inside Edition could couple it with their story on Lori trying to reunite with her children….GOOD JOB KIRSTIE!

    • Observer

      Is it wrong to hope Kirstie gets an extremely unpleasant visit from an ethics officer?

      • Ruby

        no. It is not wrong at all.

      • Robert Eckert

        If that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right.

      • KJP in Portland

        Hell NO, Obbie!

    • stillgrace2

      As Tory says, Kirstie’s the best spokesperson for anti-scientology ever, scientology shill of the year for 2013, the gift that just keeps on giving! Oh yeah, and tick-tock, too.

      • monkeyknickers

        Isn’t that the truth. I seriously wonder who her handler is. Or her agent. They can’t NOT see the implosion and public discontent taking place around this subject.

        Actually I think her agent is William Morris or CA. How they can sanction this harmful, family-shearing bullshit is ridiculous to me.

        Anything for a buck I guess.

        • Missionary Kid

          Here’s Krusty’s infromation:

          Kirstie Alley’s Manager:
          Jason Weinberg
          Untitled Entertainment
          331 North Maple Drive
          3rd Floor
          Beverly Hills, CA 90210
          Phone: 310-601-2100

          Kirstie Alley’s Agent:
          Scott Henderson
          William Morris Agency
          One William Morris Place
          Beverly Hills, CA 90212
          Phone: 310-859-4000

          http://famous-relationships.topsynergy.com/Kirstie_Alley/Contact.as

          • monkeyknickers

            So she IS with William Morris – as a Hollywood-ite I’m really shocked at that. How could they represent her seriously with everything going on. Jesus. It’s like promoting Mengele. Shame on them. Fuck.

            • Missionary Kid

              As long as she brings money into their coffers, they’ll probably represent her. Let’s see now, what will happen when her show tanks and her negative rating goes up. It will be news when she gets dropped.

            • KJP in Portland

              They might drop her like a turd…

          • stillgrace2

            Hmmm … just added to my list of Holiday card writing. I’ll add some outrage to the cheer.

            • monkeyknickers

              Right. On. Grace.
              !!!

              🙂

    • Sherbet

      The crazy thing is, scientology beliefs notwithstanding, Alley isn’t even telling the truth about what Leah said. There was no “blanket” description of scientology in any of Leah’s statements. So either Kirstie personally hasn’t read or seen anything Leah actually said and is responding via knee-jerk scientology tradition, or she’s wildly exaggerating what Leah said. Or both.

    • KJP in Portland

      I really wonder if Monkey Mouse is actually telling Kirstie what to say, AND she’s actually following his orders! Much like the CoB$ attorneys.

  • Ruby

    I will bet money that Jeremy will now be called in to see his local ethics officer. They will attempt once again to smear the reputation of his mother and get him to see what an SP she really is. He may even possibly be subjected to some sec checking. This could be a turning point for Jeremy, for sure. Whether he holds his ground or quietly goes along with them, for the time being, he will definitely remember everything that happens in the next few days and will have one eye open this time. Good luck, Jeremy.

    • HolyCash

      Possibly? National TV exposure of their insane and fanatic practice of turning children against their parents?

      There’s an entire section in the OSA playbook just for this. Jeremy will have time for it to really sink in what he learned about Scientology’s attacks on his mother. Now Jeremy will learn even more at the hands of his handlers what Scientology is capable of and why his mother not only left, but is fighting for him and his sister.

      OSA should know by now that with this National TV exposure, your only move now is to declare her son and daughter. Anything else is just squirrel, isn’t it OSA? So just do it now. There are bigger fish to fry like in Texas, or California or well, it’s only going to get busier and hotter. You don’t have time for the little fish anymore. The showdown has begun and the clock is ticking and tocking. You wouldn’t want any of the litigants to have fresh evidence of fanaticism, now would you?

      • Suzy

        I would rather see them declared than put in any danger. I worry for Jeremy’s safety now.

        • HolyCash

          National TV spotlights work and it protects people.

      • OrangySky

        I actually hope they do get declared – once their anger and pain wears off, they will have time to clear their heads and let the truth BEGIN to seep in.
        These kids were raised in Scientology so it may take a long time. But if they’re declared, at least they will have that time. If Jeremy is dragged into ethics, sec checks, RPF, he will only get blasted with more and more mind control bull and I fear for his stability.

        • HolyCash

          He has a huge net of loving family and friends that will catch him before he hits the ground:)

        • HolyCash

          not sure where comment went. They have a large safety net of family and friends just waiting to catch them before they touch the ground. Lori has made sure both of them know that. That is the best thing she could have done and then has gone on to go above and beyond. They know they have a safe and loving place to fall.

    • Miss Tia

      I’m really glad to know Jeremy isn’t working IN the SO (I thought he was). Being at a non-$cieno worker gives him more freedom, same with having a phone with internet. He’s already looked things up, planting seeds is GOOD. I hope it’s a big turning point for him.

      • Ruby

        Me too! He will still be raked over the coals, but definitely a good thing that he is not SO.

    • Eclipse-girl

      The problem for Jeremy is not just Ethics and sec checking, it includes his father who clearly doesn’t give a damn about his. It was the father who I thought signed the papers to allow Jeremy to join at age 15. Perhaps he encouraged Jeremy joining the SO to hurt Lori.

      • Ruby

        Yes, dad is clearly an issue. But, I am thinking that since Jeremy is no longer 15, it may be a different story for him making his own decisions? Let’s hope.

        • Eclipse-girl

          I hope, too

  • SandiCorrena

    I <3 Christian Stolte!
    Christian Stolte ‏@ChristianStolte 13h

    @kirstiealley You cannot fathom the courage it took for @LeahRemini to leave your evil cult. You're too ignorant to see you are the villain.

    • i-Betty

      Applause! Standing ovation! Many “we’re not worthies”!

      Heh, I bloody love that man 😀

      • SandiCorrena

        He’s the real freakin deal isn’t he!!!! Him and Jason are just flat out RIGHTEOUS!

    • Valerie Ross

      Hmmm, new idea for misstia twitter flurry. Perhaps she should recommend @kristiealley M9 #bigot #cult and #enemy

  • Sarah James

    Mark Bunker and Lori Hodgson have made great strides getting the truth into the light.
    Did Kirstie Alley say she had not talked to Leah in 7 or 8 years? So since the wedding of TC and Katie?

    • Robert Eckert

      Ever since Leah asked where Shelly is, I bet.

    • Interested

      Was she at the wedding?

      • Sarah James

        I don’t know if she was there or not. I thought she was hateful toward Leah because Leah left the cult, but it sounds as if she started hateing because Leah asked about Shelly.

  • Sherbet

    Wow! Wow! Wow! Tony’s post today is a hat trick of triple-good stories. If this were Sesame Street, today’s post would be brought to us by the world “denial” which would include Lori’s son, Kirstie “La la I can’t hear you!” Alley, and the City of Clearwater.

    If any tiny, infinitesimal cracks appear in the walls of any of those people or institutions, it would truly be a Christmas miracle, and I’m hoping for it.

  • KNMF

    Kirstie Alley joins the parade of scientology nutballs who dutifully attack dissenters by crying “bigot.”

    I think cult-drone Dan Murman was the first one I ever heard on video.

    Would love to see a compilation video of Scientologists playing the bigot card. I’m fairly certain “bigot” is a word strongly recommended by Miscavige.

    Kirstie stupidly called Ms. Remini a bigot, but Ms. Remini has done little more than report her experiences and fears after being in the group for over a decade. “Bigot” doesn’t fit. It couldn’t fit in this case.
    The label is being used mindlessly. It is just part of the attack-script. i wish mainstream media would get this.

    • stillgrace2

      “bigot”,”hater”, “apostate”, the list goes on. My absolute favorite is “enormous grain of salt”, which is physically impossible. I guess ninth grade drop-outs don’t know everything.

      • Robert Eckert

        We bigoted bitter apostates need to grind our axe on an enormous grain of salt.

        • joan nieman

          so true!

        • splog

          You forgot “defrocked” and “who hang out on the fringes of the internet” 🙂

    • HolyCash

      Celebrities get trained and handed a script to memorize.

  • nottrue

    Jeremy looks like a sharp guy.I think he will see the light soon

    • Artoo45

      He looks so much like his mom. I bet some of her heart, drive and reasoning is in there somewhere too. Jeremy, you have a lot of crazy aunts, uncles and cousins rooting for you.

      • HolyCash

        True.

        Surely Jeremy wouldn’t want that eternity he’s so concerned about to be occupied with those who only want to control him and without those who only want to hug him. Over and over and over and over, life without love? Feels like hell.

        • marti

          ” life without love?”
          That’s an eternity right there.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Could somebody just go to his shop, talk casually with him about the bikes, and once in a while just whisper “call your mom”…

  • whenpigsswim
    • marti

      @ whenpigsswim,
      Leah is the calm. Kirstie is the storm.

      • xoxoxoxoxoxox

        Leah is the calm. Kirstie is the clam.

    • SandiCorrena

      Leah’s light is very vibrant these days; it’s beautiful to behold!

      • KJP in Portland

        Sandi, look at her now compared to even, July! At first she looked sooo exhausted; now she looks like she’s on top of the World and enjoying everything. She looks like she’s more than happy! I think she will still have a good career going forward the next 20 years. Very likable person. Very personable. Takes that ‘extra minute’ with the little people. I enjoy watching her transformation immensely 🙂

    • Sarah James

      I know this has been said before, Leah is all class!

    • KJP in Portland

      She came from a great family home and was taught excellent manners!

  • Layla

    Thank you for your tweets, Miss Tia.You inspired me, and I now tweet all over the place about the evil cult’s atrocities, including Howard Stern, Barbara Walters, Ben Stiller, Kirstie Alley (I’m banned from her twitter!), among others…all because of you.

  • El Con Blubbard

    Kirstie Alley: “Scientology does not SHUN – but I am shunning Leah Remini”! Bat shit crazy Kirstie Alley! Kirstie Alley states “I have hundreds of friends” – LIES again! She has parasites that feed off of her celebrity status! She is so far gone…I think she will go down with the sinking ship of Scientology!! Hope it is worth it Kirstie Alley – you really look stupid!

    • Sherbet

      She allegedly has hundreds of friends who left scientology with no repercussions. Hmmmm….hundreds of friends who LEFT? What does that say about cos? Duh, Kirstie.

      • marti

        @Sherbet, Yes! So true. /:)

        • Sherbet

          Not sure about that. Missionary Kid said Kirstie claims they all came back into the church eventually. She’s probably talking about invisible space cooties, and, anyway, there’s no real math in cos…you know, like when they count how many people were in a pro-scientology crowd.

      • Ruby

        That was my thought too. Hundreds of her friends leaving the “fastest growing religion of all time”? Seems a bit contrary there.

        • KJP in Portland

          Yeah…lol!

      • Missionary Kid

        I believe that she also said that they come back.

        • marti

          MK, Not of their own free will most likely.

          • Missionary Kid

            I agree. You can tell Krusty’s lying because her lips are moving and she’s talking about $cientology.

            • marti

              ..And she probably said “they came back” to save her you know what.
              KR anyone?

    • ze moo

      The tabloids are having kristiefest with this one. So many people are being educated to the crazy that is $cientology. Look out Kristie, you’ll be doing steps A to whatever soon and saluting the dwarfenführers dog.

    • OrangySky

      She sounds mentally ill. I mean it – she sounds like she’s just a few steps away from being hospitalized for “exhaustion and dehydration™”.

      • KJP in Portland

        I’ll agree with you on that one!

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      In scientology there is the training routine TR-1, also known as “Dear Alice.”

      It’s part of the communication course and other courses. The point of this routine is to learn to deliver a question or communication as your own.

      In it, you take a sentence of one of the characters in the book “Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” and then speak it to the other person, as if it was you yourself saying that as your own thought.

      Basically, because lots of these sentences are nonsense, it is hard to do at first. But you are supposed to read the sentence and then internally ‘make it your own’ and then speak it to your ‘twin’ in the drill, as your own. They have to hear it as a naturally communicated thought from you, not just read from the book.

      So where I am going with this is that she can have this internal disconnect: “Scientology says that the way to handle an SP is to disconnect if they can’t be handled.” “I am an independent person, I make up my own mind.” “I am a scientologist and I do what scientologists are supposed to do.” “When I decide to disconnect or shun, I am not just doing what I read, I am ‘making it my own’ as my ‘own’ choice, therefore, scientology does not dictate disconnection.” “I am making an independent choice.”

      See, she is taking the policy, which she knows, and making it her own, and defending it as her choice, while hiding from herself that it is policy and if she doesn’t disconnect there are penalties.

  • El Con Blubbard

    The Church of Scientology states “there is no such policy as disconnection and individuals can decide on their own if they want to talk to people”…then, why is Jeremy refusing to talk to people and tells his mom – he has to do steps A-E and admit to the Church of Scientology she made a mistake!! Inside Edition needs to post the policy on disconnection and steps A-E!! The Church of Scientology are a bunch of liars…they lie to survive…it is their bread and butter!! The Church of Lie-ology!

    • splog

      You’re onto something here.

      Lori’s son is not making up his won mind, he is as good as saying directly that the Churches decision is his decision. he’s not saying his mom must do A-E and makes things good with him then he will talk to her. Oh no, he’s saying his mom must do A-E and make things good with the church and then he will talk to her.

      So what the fuck exactly does her relationship with the church have to do with his relationship with her?

      Oh yeah, i was forgetting, this is scientology where its always worse than you think.

  • El Con Blubbard

    Mark Bunker – I love you!! Thank you for exposing the truth about Scientology. Lisa McPherson died because of David MIscavige and Scientology ~ the truth!! We will never forget Lisa McPherson!! Thank you Mark Bunker for your relentless pursuit of exposing the truth about Scientology, L Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige!

    • Artoo45

      Wise ‘n’ Beard™, it does the job every time.

  • HolyCash

    Dear Flag Ethics Officers, FSM’s and Registrars:

    According to Celebrity Net Worth, Kirstie Alley still has $30 million left.

    She sure has been casting Scientology in a bad light, a real source of trouble that one.

    Her show is likely to be cancelled any moment, so there goes that income stream.

    I don’t think it’s fair that she has all that holy cash just sitting around when there’s auditoriums to build in LA and Clearwater. And I’ll bet David Miscavige could use some new shoes and a jet for the New Year’s Eve event. You wouldn’t want your boss to look tacky by wearing yesterday’s wardrobe, now would you?

    And when can we expect to see Kirstie on the Running Program to get her ethics in?
    http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/actors/kirstie-alley-net-worth/

  • monkeyknickers

    I HATE SCIENTOLOGY I HATE SCIENTOLOGY I HATE SCIENTOLOGY I HATE SCIENTOLOGY.

    I fucking well hate it.

    Poor Lori, jesus. Her kids need her. She’s their MAMA.

    And poor Ashleen. And poor every child forcefully abandoned by this fucked up cult.

    Jesus CHRIST I’m cranky today. Must be because I can’t go anywhere cuzza the weather. Normally I’d be getting my booze on about now.

    OH HA HA.

    🙂

    • Artoo45

      OK. Breathe Monkeyknickers. Here’s an adorable baby monkey . . . in knickers. Be one with the monkey . . . be one with the monkey . . .

      • monkeyknickers

        THE FORCE IS STRONG WITH YOU.

        Thx. 🙂

    • OrangySky

      Hang in there – the little Monkeys will be here soon to distract you! xo

      • monkeyknickers

        Jesus I can’t believe how soon they’re gonna bust out!! 🙂

        • OrangySky

          Can I be one of their 50 or so Bunker Godmothers? 😉

          • monkeyknickers

            YOU HAFTA.

            I can’t believe I didn’t co-opt you already.

            PLEASE COME OVER NOW. 🙂

    • KJP in Portland

      It’s in single digits in Eugene and Corvallis. It’s a balmy 17 here!

      • monkeyknickers

        Yup! I’m kinda regretting my decision to have the babies here instead of Hollywood. 🙂 It’s FREEZING.

        • KJP in Portland

          Even Scappoose is 10! This is a bit much. I did find a car wash at 181 & Glisan open. Got my buggy washed! I even went thru DEQ. It was cold inside there too…poor workers! I decided on the way back to Troutdale, the heck with this and got nice, giant burrito at a good roach coach…it’s warming me up (and leveling my blood sugars)

  • Sidney18511

    Off topic. Is anyone able to get John P. Capitalist blog to pull up? I’m getting a server error.

    • NOLAGirl

      It came up ok for me Sidney.

      Hope you’re having a good day friend. 🙂

    • tetloj

      I have been getting server errors linking to other pages in disqus. If I use the ‘now in your network’ and try to link to a comment for a different site/article the server error comes up. If I open the correct page first, the link to comment works. This started happening about eight hours ago.

      • Mooser

        This is going to be a month of very heavy Internet use. So any website could become temporarily unstable.

    • Graham

      It’s working for me.

      EDIT: Spoke too soon! The home-page comes up OK but if I try to access an individual page I get a 404 Page not found.

    • MadMaxi

      Can get the Home page, but get 404 error for the other pages

    • KJP in Portland

      Me too…

  • Artoo45

    Good morning Captain Miscavige, not to alarm you but there seems to be a problem . . .

    • stillgrace2

      I know you meant no harm Artoo, but as a frequent flyer, that photo gave me an upset stomach. Maybe I just drank too much egg nog this am. Either way, here I am.

      • Artoo45

        Sorry to have restimulated, but always remember that the trip to and from the airport is the most dangerous part by a wide margin.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Edit: stay at the top of the thread…………do not LOOK DOWN!!!!

    • xoxoxoxoxoxox

      The plane’s “straight up and vertical”. It’s the world that’s the wrong way round.

  • OrangySky

    Wow, Marty: “….At the time I responded with righteous indignation. Having had many
    encounters with high level Scientologists over the past couple years,
    including very recently, I am coming around to seeing how spot on that
    ‘Ministry of Hate’ sobriquet in fact was, and is. Scientologists are
    trained and conditioned to hate. They are trained and conditioned to
    lie, defame, and spread hate against anyone who does not toe their white
    line; all with an air of overblown righteous indignation.”

    More evidence of growth and increasing wisdom. The truth reveals itself in dribs and drabs.

    • i-Betty

      This is good 🙂

  • baddog5623
    • KJP in Portland

      B-U-S-T-E-D Missy!

  • Unloyalofficer

    Every time I read something new about Lori, I get real emotional, and start crying. I really hope she gets her kids back.

  • Mooser

    “This performance of bigotry, defamation and hate by Kirstie is not her
    natural personality. She was trained and conditioned in Scientology to
    act in this immature, hateful fashion.”

    Exactly the same situation with the Scilon trolls who come here. How could they communicate in any other way? Such pitiable creatures.

    • HolyCash

      It’s all pretty much the same scripts, Mooser. They are trained and made to memorize and drill and memorize some more what to say, when to say it, how to say it, how to deflect, etc. Celebrities have a special script but it’s not that much different. That way they don’t have to hurt themselves by thinking for themselves.

  • Anonymous

    FWIW – the comments pages at http://www.johnpcapitalist.com are down. Could be routine maintenance, could be a technical problem. FYI. (6:06 PM GMT)

  • Jgg2012

    Kirstie’s outburst reminds me of those who say the critics of the US government are unpatriotic. Why do some say that? They confuse patriotism with nationalism. To a fascist, however, there is little difference, and yes, Scientology is a fascist philosophy.
    Leah never said she hated Scientologists (she was one herself for decades) or even say the tech doesn’t work (she’s friends with JLo, swho says it often does work), she is complaining about an organization out of control.

  • DamOTclese2

    WBM does an excellent job, as always. 🙂

  • DamOTclese2

    Damn. Kirstie is getting her stupid, hate-filled ass kicked hard on Twitter.

    • NOLAGirl

      *runs to look* 🙂

      • DamOTclese2

        Most of it is @KirstieAlley rather than #KirstieAlley and I see that @Scientology is getting hammered hard due to Kirstie’s hate-filled comments about Leah. Yikes!

        • NOLAGirl

          This is the kind of press I like. 😀

    • Aslansown

      I don’t really understand twitter, but I did go over there and see one of her fans wrote this: “If Scientology produces quality people like Kirstie, Cruise, Will Smith, and Travolta, I’m all for it.” :-

      • DamOTclese2

        🙂 Yeah, that Twitter account has a number of sarcastic comments about Scientology customers. There was one person who replied who didn’t get the joke. 🙂

        • Aslansown

          I didn’t see your screen capture. I guess I didn’t get the joke either b/c I thought it was one of her fans! I think I need to go back to bed! 😉

          • DamOTclese2

            🙂 Well, Twitter is also subtle, the sarcasm is limited to few characters. 🙂 You can search for @Scientology and click “all” to see what people are saying about the criminal enterprise, and you can click on the “There are 42 more postings” toward the top to watch the feed continually as people comment about the syndicate.

            When you watch #kirstiealley or @kirstiealley you get to see real time what people are Tweeting about her. Lots and LOTS of people like her, they truly do, they like her as an actor and don’t really know what she is like as a person, I think maybe.

            • Aslansown

              Thanks for helping me! I’m “an old” I’m pedaling as fast as I can! 🙂

              In fact, my friend and I have just started a little consulting company and we’ve been told we need to be on Twitter, and my friend is not at ALL computer-literate, so it will fall to me… I really need to get up to speed fast!

            • DamOTclese2

              🙂 Yeah, companies and organizations need to be on Twitter, Facebook, and maybe even YouTube these days, it’s just got so much advantage over people/companies/groups who do not.

              A charity organization that works inside a local hospital is dying off because their people are getting older and literally dying, yet once I got started creating a social media presence for them, the *daughters* of older women have been pointing out the volunteer opportunities at the hospital and there is fresh blood looking to volunteer.

              That’s been the way of it for a decade now.

            • Aslansown

              I’ll bake you cookies if you do it for us!! 😉

            • DamOTclese2

              Ha! I already have so much work I’m behind. I’m supposed to be collecting all the photographs of volunteer hospital work for this past year and sending them for publication, and here I am getting later by being in the Bunker and on Twitter.

              Send me an email at DamOTclese@gmail.com if you really would like a leg up on social media or a web site for a tax exempt group, I would like to help.

            • Aslansown

              Aw, thanks for your kind offer! I don’t want to add to your workload, but I may need to send a smoke signal at some point if I get too confused! We’re just very local and do trainings for police, hospital staff, etc. We did it at a non-profit and have decided to try doing it ourselves. I made a FB page and I’ll be blogging (!) on our website — I’m much more comfortable with that – I’ve just never used twitter. My partner’s nephew is kind of into SEO so he can help us.

              I know what you mean about putting things off by being here in the Bunker. My productivity has taken a total dive!

              Thanks again!

      • Sarah James

        Must have been OSA. 😉

  • Spackle Motion

    Rathbun is the last one to be stating that ANYONE owes ANYONE an apology due to acts coerced by Scientology.

    His hypocrisy never ends.

    • Cat Daddy

      let’s see what happens after Miscavige is down, what you asking for is getting in a position of vulnarability

      I wouldn’t wish to be vulnarable in front of that church, would you ?

      • Spackle Motion

        So you are saying that Rathbun, by being humble and apologetic for his hideous acts (during his tenure as a mob goon), puts him in a position of weakness?

        He would have a LOT more public support if he did this, so I am not following your logic.

        He can start by helping Gerry Armstrong clear up his name in the US. I doubt that this would harm anyone but Rathbun himself (assuming that any of his criminal acts are not yet past any statutes of limitations).

        Rathbun is as much of a hypocrite as the church itself. Old dogs-new tricks, I suppose.

        • Cat Daddy

          Yes I am saying that any apology to anyone will be used as ammunition inby the chutch.

          And you have your opinion and I have mine:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puWbVnMk614

          • Qbird

            “It seems to me that you can find the common ground… you may not agree on everything… but there are some things we can agree on…

            that David Miscavige is harming people […]”

            edit – tks for this vid Cat Daddy. & Mark Bunker XenuTV, you’re a good man.

            • Spackle Motion

              For all of the good that Marty has done, and I do know that he has done quite a bit post-cult, his evasion of justice is what gets under my skin.

              I do appreciate where he is now (i.e. not preaching the benefits of dangerous medical quackery) however I cry foul when his past actions (e.g. taking part of robbing the US from billions in taxes, covering up at least one homicide, tearing families apart, harassment, just to name a few of his crimes) are tossed aside by the public. Justice deserves a voice here.

            • Qbird

              Yes Deck ~ good to hear you & your POV. q

            • Lurkness

              We do know, by his own statements, that he has spoken with the FBI and LE on several occasions. He may well have, and probably did, cover the issues you raise. We just don’t know. But I imagine they would have questioned him as to how he would know such things, and the answer is because “I used to do them.” He has already publicly talked about how evidence was destroyed in Lisa’s case.

            • Lemont

              Call the police

            • Qbird

              Spackle Motion I know exactly where you are coming from here. When I first started looking into this thing called scientology, I read many quotes by both Mike & Marty – and I saw them speak while still in – smooth, sincere, ernest liars – both.

              Makes me not trust them.

              past history stuff – http://xenudirectory.wordpress.com/2010/04/17/mike-rinder-talked-to-gerry-armstrong-re-church-of-scientology-reformation/

              makes for very hard to forgive, can never forget.

          • Sarah James

            Mark Bunker knows how to stay calm and carry on.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              And he is cute… and tall in person 😉
              just sayin………

            • DeElizabethan

              Like a bear, nice bear!

          • DeElizabethan

            Thanks Cat Daddy, hadn’t seen this one. Such a rational man, nice! I too believe that whoever, whatever helps to get the job done which is Scientology to Fail, is doing great in my book. It’s not always easy to keep focused on the goal, but with concerted efforts by everyone, will ultimately make this happen. Also having fun at work is important too!

            BTW, I Selected to give you a downvote , thanks, hope you enjoyed it.

            • Cat Daddy

              Sweet thank you.

        • Espiando

          Now is not the time. There will be a reckoning, but not now. Not when Marty (and Mosey and Sugar Ray) has the knife up against the Dwarf’s jugular. This is just like Eisenhower and Montgomery telling Zhukov in early 1944, “Nah, don’t bother. We got this.”

          • Spackle Motion

            Right now, this day or month may not be the time, I agree. Most litigants are usually advised to keep their mouths shut while litigation is ongoing.

            Marty has done nothing but consistently spun his past to his benefit, and his arrogant attitude about righting his wrongs shows more weakness than anything he could say publicly to harm his position. This type of hypocrisy makes him a problematic witness due to valid questions on his credibility.

            • Espiando

              This is an honest point and well made, Deck. I am not one to ignore something like that. I am, though, a person who acknowledges realpolitik. Right now, Marty’s an ally of convenience.

              I just want to know who’s downvoting this entire sub-thread. Oracle, maybe? She humps Marty’s leg like a horny cocker spaniel at every opportunity.

            • Cat Daddy

              I wonder why I get no downvotes, Sweet divide and conquer making me look tainted like that. Although my posting on South Africa by Hubbard got downvotyed too. Selective downvoting is selective.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oracle! Just the name makes me laugh.

            • Sidney18511

              Spackle….I tend to agree with you, but for now I look at it this way….it is Marty’s self centered arseholeness that makes him the best competitor to damage DM.

          • joan nieman

            I agree wholeheartedly and I hope these statements that are extremely subjective will die down a bit. Now is not the time. Well said Espiando!

            • Spackle Motion

              When did any comment section on any site only include objective statements?

              I think the “I hate Scientology” comment below also fits into an extremely subjective comment, don’t you?

          • Eclipse-girl

            Completely Off topic

            Monty messed up the Bulge. Patton was correct. cut it off.

            • Robert Eckert

              On the other hand, Patton wanted to attack the Soviets immediately in the summer of 1945.

        • OrangySky

          I always respect your opinion, Spackle. But I disagree. I think what Marty and Mike are doing is their form of ‘living amends.’ He can’t take back what he did. But we don’t know what they have done in private to make amends personally to those they harmed. We don’t know. I agree, they both owe Gerry Armstrong a hell of a lot. And I also think they are both still LRH apologists (but they’re not worshippers anymore, which is a HUGE change.) But give them time. Let them do their thing. The two of them are getting people OUT of the church and that’s what’s important right now.

    • NOLAGirl

      *peeks over Cat Daddy’s shoulder and raises hand*

      SM, may I ask you an honest question? And I truly mean this will all sincerity as a “never-in.” Have you been personally hurt by either of these men? And if you’ve told your story is there somewhere I could read it?

      I ask this not to start trouble, but because we had a conversation here yesterday about this very thing. About forgiveness and how others feel about it with these men and others. I have always been on the fence about Mike & Marty, but I also feel that because they never hurt me personally they owe me nothing. Please know that I ask these things only to increase my knowledge, not to attack any persons
      opinion.

      • Espiando

        Nah, Marty’s just a sore point with Spack. Always has been. She’s a good egg, though, and, again, always has been.

        • NOLAGirl

          Thanks Espi. I was just wondering. I have no problem with anyone having any opinion about Mike and/or Marty. I can also understand both sides.

      • Sidney18511

        I have a hard time with Marty myself considering that he alone destroyed the paperwork that would of proved the COS responsibility in the death of McPherson. He was involved up to his neck. In the slimy dealings with the IRS. Either of these things could of taken down this con forever.

        • Lemont

          Wasn’t he following orders?

          • Cat Daddy

            And a Brainwashed puppy

    • Sarah James

      Actions speak louder than words. Marty Rathbun did not invent the cult and his actions since leaving have proven helpful so far. I have no reason to doubt he will continue to help others. He has to look foward, and why should he look back? Seems you have that particular job. How’s that working for you?

  • I think Kirstie Alley is at a breaking point with the cult. She’s reached the level of fanaticism usually only present in people who no longer believe, but keep pretending they believe because they fear what will happen to them if they don’t.

    She’s apparently represented by the William Morris Agency. Surely they’re smart enough to tell her that leaving Scientology now, as publicly as possible, and writing a book (or maybe making a comedy) about her experiences in it, would be the best thing for her career. Her popularity would skyrocket. And she’d find real friends outside the cult, new as well as old.

    • Chee Chalker

      Stern should have asked Krusty about Lisa Marie Presley

      • Sidney18511

        Stern should of asked her about a lot of shit! There was a time when you never knew what would come out of his mouth. He used to tear people up and mock them relentlessly. She must of had some kind of deal with him. Just thinking about those little tender butterfly kisses he planted all over her arse is making me throw up in my mouth a little bit”

  • baddog5623
  • DamOTclese2

    Father Doohickey @FatherDoohiecky @Scientology Ohhh fuck! A few minutes ago, I was planing to inject some LSD into my left testicle. Thanks for the warning #Scientology!

    ROFL!

  • Mooser

    I’ve never yet seen the numbers of votes (almost all up) that I see today! Up to tenX the usual numbers. High interest!

  • IBBy

    good morning my wonderful bunker besties. I’m here mostly in spirit after some nasty food poisoning from my office Christmas party last night. I foresee my company not patronizing this particular casino again because I cant be the only one hating life at the moment.

    Now seeing more context with Lori and inside edition, I now understand even more why she took the camera crew with her. I still don’t like sensational “news” programs but their support was necessary for Lori to be able to get there to Texas.

    WBM yet again proving to be wise. So articulate, I hope his presence in Clearwater is the starting of a real revolution against Scientology. Clearly the city officials fear COS’s thug tactics. I only hope the tide starts to turn.

    Kirstie… The nonsensical ravings of a lunatic mind.

    • DamOTclese2

      That is something I noticed about WBM from Day #1, he has always been eloquent and professional, always what top tier journalists used to be like back when news was actually news.

    • Espiando

      As a food safety expert of a quarter-century’s standing, let me give you one piece of advice: never trust a buffet. We had our office Christmas party this week as well, and, yes, it was a buffet at a local banquet facility. We of the QA department in our food plant all sat together and actually did an impromptu hazard analysis on each element of the buffet. Eventually, we judged that it was relatively safe to eat. So far, no complications have been observed.

      • IBBy

        Espi I usually stay away from buffet things with any sort of dairy or poultry leanings, but they had this cheesy artichoke crab stuff that was so damn good. I’m thinking that may be the culprit because otherwise I was careful with what I chose 🙁 All I know is f.m.l. right now

        • Espiando

          Given the symptoms and time element, you’ve got the right culprit, since that kind of stuff isn’t cooked. The root cause, though, is whoever prepared it. There’s definitely a case of unwashed hands involved in here.

          • RMycroft

            Obviously Tom Cruise should stay away from unclean shrimps…

            Scientology Leader David Miscavige Fed Gourmet Meals Every Few Hours: Australian TV November 2, 2011, Tony Ortega, Runnin’ Scared, Village Voice

            • Chee Chalker

              Which kind of begs the question…..how did a little bitty shrimp bring down a powerful OT like TC? Shouldn’t his superpowers had detected and defeated the evil shrimp? Perhaps the shrimp was actually LRH in one of his many lives and we all know he is Dauntless, Defiant and Resolute!

        • NOLAGirl

          Try to stay hydrated and feel better soon IBBy. Sending you lots of love and (((HUGS))) right now.

        • joan nieman

          Seafood is probably the culprit. Remember Tom Cruise and the tainted shrimp! I hope you are feeling better now ibby!

        • Her_Royal_Blondeness

          Based solely on the limited knowledge I gained in obtaining my Food Worker Permit (which I needed to sell hot dogs to drunken baseball fans as a fund raiser for my daughter’s cheer squad, but that’s another story), I would concur with your hypothesis that the artichoke crab stuff was the culprit. Artichoke crab stuff usually contains mayonnaise, which is notorious for causing food poisoning. I hope it “passes” quickly.

          • Aslansown

            I used to work for a food company that made mayonnaise. When people wrote in that they got sick from mayonnaise, I had to send out a pamphlet called “Mayonnaise: Friend or Foe?” I did learn something I didn’t know, which was that mayonnaise is too acidic for bacteria to grow when it’s on it’s own, but once you start adding things to it — anything ca happen. (I hope I’m right on that and also that it wasn’t company propoganda – it was 30 years ago!)

            • Her_Royal_Blondeness

              I think you are right, that it is food items that are made with mayonnaise, like potato salads and macaroni salads that are most commonly a problem.

      • stillgrace2

        Your party reminds me of a holiday potluck at a company I once worked for. Something went really wrong. So many people got sick, the privvies stopped working, and they had to rent porta-potties on a trailer rig in the back of the building for the rest of that day and the next day. Twenty-one people called in sick the next day (sick call-ins averaged five for a normal day).

        Post meant for IBBy, however, it applies to Espi’s story, too. We could have used your expertise that day.

        • splog

          Where I work, we get that A LOT.

          But in our case, it’s from the hangovers….. (management consider booze to be a good thing and have no problems handing it out for free)

  • DamOTclese2

    Being able to hug one’s son: Priceless!

  • Espiando

    Okay, so Fudgie the Whale has successfully harpooned herself on Stern and is catching the heat of a blazing furnace for it. Now is the time to hammer her senseless on her support of Narconon. People are in the mood to listen to things about Krusty, and this is a golden opportunity to edumacate the Great Unwashed about her pet cause. Maybe some people who don’t regard Twatter as the Death Of Communication As We Know It can focus their efforts in that area. We shouldn’t blow this chance.

    Man the harpoons, people. It’s time to catch us some Great White Whale.

    • Sarah James

      I agree. I put some narconon info on radaronline yesterday.

      • Sarah James

        I guess they flaged me as my post is gone. So how hard is it to get on twitter?

        • Lemont

          Twitter is quite easy since they don’t require an identity – most accounts aren’t associated with a real name

          • Sarah James

            Got it TY 🙂

        • tetloj

          create an account and off you go

          • Sarah James

            Ty:)

    • NOLAGirl

      Will this do? 🙂

      “Hey @eonline you were happy to report Kirstie calling Leah a bigot, how about reporting Kirstie supporting Narconon, a rehab that kills?”

    • ThetaBara

      IMHO:

      • Espiando

        The harpoons bring her down. The Giant Fuckin’ Saw Thing is for flensing her afterward.

  • Baby

    Mark Bunker.. You are a welcomed sight in Clearwater. Your gentle spirit and intellectual reasoning will have an impact on city council. Thank you for remembering Lisa. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

    • chukicita

      They just don’t have tech for him. Mark Bunker *rocks.*

      • Drat

        Bunker Tech™

      • Baby

        Yep.. and we will keep a close eye for him. They’ve employed the tech..

        Confront NO shatter.. THE TECH DOESN’T WORK!

    • joan nieman

      Aw! Well said Baby.

      • Baby

        Oh Joanie.. I am highly educamacated.. xoxoox

  • DamOTclese2

    I rather like this Tweet, it kind of underscores the whole fiasco. Leah never attacked Scientology, and while most people knew what destructive organization she walked away from, it was Kirstie Alley who opened her yip and attacked Leah, and now Leah is standing aside and coolly observing, refraining from biting the troll bait.

    It’s interesting seeing Leah remain polite and professional while Kirstie just doubles down, but it’s times eleventy million more interesting watching the general public reaction to Kirstie’s rather ugly comments. And it used to be when print media was the thing, such lunacy from a Hollywood actress (Kirstie) would be a slow burn, newspapers would cover it for a while, it would be few and in between the people who saw it, and only people who read the rags and Hollywood section of papers would even noticed.

    But holy hell, the Internet sure has changed things.

    • RMycroft

      I think Kirstie went to the same “bigot chant” class as John Allender. (He’s slightly more articulate, but that might be from the Bluetooth earpiece.)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBnel4Zs3c4

      • Jgg2012

        Don’t you think that Kirstie is reminiscent of the Apartheid regime? Mandela was called a traitor, an enemy of South Africa, evil, etc. because…let’s see. he tried to free 80% of its people.

        • Cat Daddy

          “THE BIG AUDITING PROBLEM.”

          “And we have had some auditors in South Africa who have actually
          succeeded in training natives easily and well and have successfully
          managed large organizations there. That’s certainly something. Now with
          these people it was still possible to get something done. But what had
          this native done? Was this native what we think of as primitive stock?
          No, we make a great many mistakes. We say a child is in a ‘native
          state.’ A native is in a ‘native state.’

          “People are in a barbaric condition and then they grow up and become
          civilized. How do we know that this barbaric condition isn’t a
          retrogression from a highly civilized condition back to an Only One
          category? How do we know that isn’t true? How do we know that that
          native didn’t at one time achieve a great civilization of culture which
          then collapsed on him and he went back into a state of being a
          barbarian?

          “But the point is – is this true that a native is in a clearer state,
          and is it true that it requires Livingness to advance somebody in that
          crude state up to a condition of ability? No, that is not true. The
          child, the primitive, the native, are in retrograded states. They are
          worse off than somebody who is at a civilized or thinking or analytical
          level.

          “I will give you an interesting example of this. If you can tell the
          difference between a lot of little kids you run into, and psychos, I’ll
          give you a medal. Now the funny part of it is that little kids have
          something to hope for. They have the future to grow up into. And that’s
          their only asset. Almost everything else is on the debit side of the
          column. Here is this poor devil who has been slugged, he’s just lost a
          body, he’s been put into a state of anxiety; here he’s got another body,
          is it going to get along right or isn’t it? He’s got the hope that it
          will grow and that alone can carry him forward and color the world
          brightly for him, but at the same time he is suffering from death shock…

          “And very often you get a preclear who is suffering merely from the
          death shock. And he is psychotic, he’s crazy, he doesn’t know whether he
          is coming or going. Why? Because he’s surrounded by things he cannot
          understand—and that is the common denominator of all lack of
          orientation, of all aberration. It’s being surrounded by things you
          cannot understand. And a child, surrounded by these things he cannot
          understand, therefore can produce what we call childhood delusions…
          “But all I am telling you is that children, South African natives,
          and now the entirety of this world in which we are living, present to us
          an auditing problem. We are rich in being able to understand what is
          happening in our environment and we are rich also in knowing exactly how
          to handle such a circumstance or condition…”

          • Cat Daddy

            Who is downvoting a genuine quote from L Ron Hubbard that shows his view on South Africa. Could it be because Nelson Mandela died and they don’t want this to see the light of day right now ?

          • OrangySky

            Stunned. Hadn’t read that one yet.

      • monkeyknickers

        What a prick.

        EDIT: I mean the Sci asshole. 🙂

    • ze moo

      I have seen many local newspapers web sites doing the Ally-Remini Howard Stern story today. It’s past tabloid stage and into the mainstream. Miscavige is not going to be amused. Kirste Ally is going to have to dip into her bank account to pay off this one.

      • DamOTclese2

        Oh yeah, now that you mention it, that’s another amusing bit of nonsense, it has climbed out of the slime and in to the mainstream. 🙂 How amusing. I wonder if the stupid woman is going to get a telephone call from David her shortly, if he hasn’t already.

  • Jgg2012

    Re Marty’s comment: actually, Leah is trying to help Scientologists by getting them the right to question things and, to that extent, is a better Scientologist than Kirstie is.

  • Sunny Sands

    Vanity auto tag seen today in downtown Clearwater: ALLY GRL. This was on a bright red, convertible BMW. Kirstie or someone who works for her?

    • Simi Valley

      Florida plates?

      • Sunny Sands

        Yes

  • Graham

    John P Capitalist back up and running after some problems… http://www.johnpcapitalist.com/uncategorized/site-problems/

  • Chee Chalker

    Keep Calm and Remain Bearded

    • DamOTclese2

      Bearded clams? Wuh? 🙂

  • Jeb Burton

    Tony wrote, “By spending time with Rathbun, she herself was branded a Supressive Person by the church.” Is he saying that she wasn’t an SP til then and could see her kids? Would she have been declared as SP any way so why the hell not meet with him? Why would she spend time with the warrior if she knew this? Marty certainly was aware the church was monitoring him 24/7 and did he tell her that she could be declared, and disconnected from her kids for seeing him? Not knowing much about disconnection, can somebody tell me why she would take this risk.

    • InterestedinCrazy

      Do you have kids ?

    • Snippy_X

      Why are you making this about her? You would have chosen a better venue, not Inside Edition. You would have never met with Rathbun, blah blah blah.

      Did you miss the fact that it is CO$ who has bullied her children into not communicating with her? It’s not about Lori. It’s about the CO$ restricting a member’s access to their friends, family, the truth, etc.

      What the hell is it you are trying to accomplish with this slime you are dumping here?

      • Ray

        “Did you miss the fact that it is CO$ who has bullied her children into not communicating with her? It’s not about Lori. It’s about the CO$ restricting a member’s access to their friends, family, the truth, etc.”

        You talk about her children as if they are brainless potato heads who have had lobotomies. Look how easy Leah Remini walked away from Scientology brain intact. People make choices, and you talk about them as if they are birdbrains. I would suggest they leave Scientology but that is it. If they have actually been lobotomized then go and kidnap them, it would be warranted. But we both know they have not been lobotomized. They have made choice and been influenced by others. Welcome to earth where people are running around infleuencing each other.

        • Aslansown

          When I click on your name Jeb Burton’s profile pops up…???

          • Robert Eckert

            I get Mooser’s profile. Apparently OSA is hacking deep into Disqus.

            • Aslansown

              Suddenly Ray has become Guest.

            • Graham

              “Suddenly Ray has become Guest”. Just like yesterday. We’ve got Ray/Guest and Signs of Senility both on troll duty today. We are honoured.

            • Valerie Ross

              Honored? NOT. Ray. I repeat what I said to Marco posing as SOS

              YSCOHB

              Sigh go. Away.

        • splog

          You speak as one without experience in this. Or perhaps you have too much experience in this. I can’t figure out which one it is, but either way there’s no sign of help from you.

          • Guest

            “but either way there’s no sign of help from you.”

            Helpful = treating people as capable, governors of their own lives, free, independent.

            Not Helpful = treating people as incapable, small, brainless, powerless, slaves, lobotomized, no minds of their own.

            • Graham

              The $cientology Way = treating people as incapable, small, brainless, powerless, slaves, lobotomized, no minds of their own.

            • Guest

              You are speaking about people in the exact same way here .

            • Guest

              Correction: You are speaking about people in the exact same way here .

            • Drat

              These people look capable, intelligent, strong and free to you?

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8whUo7WtFvU

            • DamOTclese2

              These people look violent and insane.

            • splog

              Ah yes, I see what’s happening here.

              Children, pay attention, this is a good example of the black and white world of Scientology.
              To a Scientologist, people who side with the church and go along with the party line are doing it out of their own free will, consciously and with full possession of their faculties.

              People who don’t go along with the church are … well they are something else. Maybe they are that class of people who should be disposed of quietly and without sorrow.

              So look at our friend guest here – he (or she) simply has no concept that someone can be bullied, pressurized, suppressed and crush regged over a period of many years to the point where they can’t think think straight and start to behave like their handlers want them to behave.

              guest, you are as transparent as glass. Why do you keep coming back here? You convince no-one.

            • Robert Eckert

              He keeps coming back because it is a “stat” for him. I think the number of responses he gets is also a stat.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I think he wants to blow but can’t quite pull his ball sack down far enough to do it.

            • splog

              ow fuck!! and I had just cleaned this monitor screen. it was all nice and shiny now look at it. Coffe splurts everywhere!!!

              damn you btn damn you!!!

              /says me wearing the shit-eating grin

            • Bury_The_Nuts

            • splog

              OK, I’ll forgive you, but only if you have a sexy voice like Antonio Banderas and can send a recording.

              Mrs Splog loves the voice of Antonio Banderas.
              Splog is in deep shit with Mrs Splog right now as Splog spends too much time at the bunker, now needs to make good with Mrs Splog

            • tetloj

              Talk about manipulation….my son used to this face, straight out of the Puss in Boots playbook.

            • Snippy_X

              Their critical thinking abilities have been compromised. Look up “cult” or “coercion” or “mind control.” When people have to believe they are in ultimate control of their own choices, they are blind to reality, but they can happily say, that could never happen to me. You seem to be in this camp. Go off and be happy then.

            • Guest

              “critical thinking abilities have been compromised.”

              While that sounds plausible and I am aware how poplar that fantastic point of view is here, I just happen to not buy into it.

            • Robert Eckert

              No, that didn’t “just happen”; it was done to you.

            • Once_Born

              Then demonstrate the power of you arguments, and use Scientology to convince us we are wrong. It is as powerful as Ron said it was, and the tech always works, you should be able to do this.

              At least tell us why you do not agree. Just asserting a thing does not make it true.

              BTW, while you may be “[…] aware how poplar that fantastic point of view is” you should be aware that a poplar is a tree. Perhaps you mean “popular”.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh, you mean like Scientology does?

            • Once_Born

              Boring = *yawn* (goes to sleep).

        • Valerie Ross

          Oh fuck I didn’t realize we had Ray/guest back too. Yeah. Leah walked away easily. It ONLY took her SEVEN FREAKING YEARS of sec checks to get her whole family on board. Go away dickwad.

          • Guest

            I was in a relationship for a year with a person who I think “cheated” on me every single day of that relationship. I eventually woke up to the doormat I was being and said wtf? It did not take me a year to leave that shitty relationship. There were things I was getting from it. I just eventually chose to expect more and be more. I do not take the case that it took me a year to end it. You can speak that way about life all the time, it is a very popular victim point of view. I do not buy into that way of viewing history. I am an adult.

            Note: I had good and very frustrated committed friends who were wacking me with a stick that whole year telling me that I was being used and fooled etc. I had to see it for myself and eventually did. Do I wish I had listened to them? Yes I do. But it was and is my life to live not theres.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Wow, you almost sound like a regular homo sapiens.
              Almost!

            • Valerie Ross

              Ray I am going to say this because I’m frustrated with your trolling us and we know you are a troll and your stats are not as impressive as you are reporting because this is a very active board and you have wasted a nanosecond of our time to laugh at your arrogance.

              Now listen up:

              I was trained by the GO. I lied to my parents and hundreds of other people and truly believed that I was superior to all of them because I was a Scientologist. I. WAS. NOT.

              Once you manage to disengage yourself from the mindfuck and realize that we come here to show compassion not superiority, you will be welcome. As long as you walk around telling everyone you are the be all end all font of knowledge and you know how to do it right, you are not welcome here.

              The end.

            • Guest

              Valerie Ross:

              “and truly believed that I was superior to all of them”
              “show compassion not superiority,”
              “Sigh go. Away.”
              “Go away dickwad.”

              My posts reveal exactly what I am, and yours, well yours seem to reveal what you are quite clearly.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              At least she had an audience with the old fat fart LRH?
              Did you?

              I think I will go with Val’s info instead of yours.

            • Valerie Ross

              Wow you have been paying attention

              EDIT: next clue that he’s OSA. Take the quotes of mine he put here. Put them back in context. He is obviously one of the ones who gets to cull PC folders when someone blows so he can post incriminating stuff on the internet. I hope they are searching for mine right now LOL.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              🙂 good luck to him. I don’t think he is smart enough to find your folders.
              And I am done giving him hints!

            • Espiando

              Your posts reveal completely what you are: someone who desperately needs a prostate check from a chainsaw.

            • splog

              So what’s your real name?

            • Espiando

              His name is Guest, or Ray, or Bill Yaude, OSA Tool and Incompetent. Actually, all of the above.

            • splog

              Tory Magoo’s handler?

              OMFG! Bunkerites, run and hide! Tory’s handler is in the house! We’re all doomed it’s every man for himself! Run! Run! Save yourselves!

            • Guest

              Oh yes, and I am a witch to. Better get the gallows or fire ready. You have all the evidence you need to torch me good. Or you can just stone me, whatever saves the village from my devil worshipping evilness. Ok everybody pick up your stone or torch…time to burn the witch. Good times. Restore order. Think of the children!

            • splog

              nah, waste of a good stick.

              I think I’ll just ignore you.

            • Guest

              Oh come on, the concrete evidence is staggeringly overwhelming! Get that fire going. You can toast marshmellows afterwords.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Have you really resorted to BooHooing?
              Yawn.

            • Once_Born

              See what I mean? That sounds so much like, “Send me to bed early, without a biscuit – why don’t you never, never, ever give me anything to eat ever again and starve me to death?”

              You are in a adult forum, arguing like a child having a tantrum. How is this doing the world any good at all?

              Please engage with the actual subject of this discussion, and tell us why we are wrong about Scientology.

            • Once_Born

              When you signed up to save the world, did you ever think you be arguing like an eight-year-old online. you sound like you have been sent to bed early, and are doing that ‘I can’t do anything right’ thing.

              If Scientology is so powerful, why don’t you use it to change our minds? The tech always works, does it not?

            • junojones

              And I really am a witch and I think you are behaving like a fucking idiot. Sod off, OSA, you are really starting to reach the line of offensive for certain religious minorities in the house.

            • Once_Born

              “[….] show compassion not superiority” {What an outrageous insult}

              You posts reveal you to be a troll. Valerie’s posts reveal her to be bored with your obvious trolling. You are boring everyone, and proving nothing.

              If Scientology is so powerful, why don’t you discuss that with us. If it really works, you should be able to change our minds about it.

        • Once_Born

          During you last visit you tried to manipulate the people here into appearing to support violence. Now you appear to be trying to manipulate us into appearing to support kidnapping.

          Have you been tasked with discrediting this blog? If so, you really are not doing a very good job.

          I suggest you go back to provoking people, so that they call you names – then claim we are all abusive. At least you have a few inventively hostile posts to show for that.

      • Jeb Burton

        I was just asking the question. Of course I think disconnection is hideous. No one with any knowledge seems to want to answer my question, was she declared before she met with Marty? I also thought that recording her conversation with her son for the benefit of the tv show without his knowledge was wrong. I know I am an asshole for asking these questions, but I think they are a big part of the story.

        • Snippy_X

          No, this is you trying to see if the rape victim’s skirt was too short.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I would answer your question, Jeb. I think it is valid. But I have no knowledge to do so.
          Carry on.

          And you may be an Asshole…….but you are mine and Chelsea’s ass hole!!!

        • Davka

          Written at the time, so Lori may be in a different place, but it appears she resigned, went to see Marty, and then Allender started harassing her at home (I think also while she was there).

          http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/lori-hodgson-is-back-in-the-saddle/

    • Sarah James

      Where’s your outrage for the crimes commited agains’t Lori and her children? Do you think Lori should just be tolerant and let that $hithead Miscavige have them?

      • DamOTclese2

        In Scientology, it’s a crime to stop people from kidnapping one’s sons and daughters, don’t ya know.

        • Sarah James

          I know, I know, and it’s a crime to tell the truth about disconnection, and asking about der leaders missing wife and if Kirstie Ally really did a drug rehab and…I sure am glad OSA and trolls come around just to keep everything on the up and up.

    • Davka

      She was in the midst of leaving, conflicted, and went to Marty for auditing/counseling – at the time she wasn’t fully out – she may not have believed/knew what those impacts of seeing Marty would have been. In any event, it is of no matter, so long as she wasn’t towing the line, kids would have likely disconnected anyway. Lori can correct me if I’ve misstated something.

    • DamOTclese2
  • Nick Overmyer

    Dammit. FROM NOW ON if ANY of you need to come here to visit a loved one who might happen to be in my fair city under similar circumstance, and you would like a substantial protective escort of intimidating and stand-offish individuals driving a multitude of equally intimidating and apocalyptic vehicles in order to assist with anyone following or attempting to harass you PLEASE GET IN TOUCH ME. My associates and I have no stake in the matter but lulz, until they’re doing this shit on our roads. “Squirrel Busters” can eat DEEZ NUTS people.

    • Valerie Ross

      Although my city isn’t fair, my vehicles are intimidating as are my neighbors. I doubt anyone in their right mind would live here but I second the offer just in case.

  • USA MRIID
    • OrangySky

      YAY! Tom tried to pull the “Jew hating” card (just like Kirstie Alley!) and it backfired big time!
      Davey! Everybody’s read your playbook, honey! And it’s not working.
      Stop doubling down on what isn’t working. (Or rather, keep it up…you’re hastening your own demise.)

      Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    • DamOTclese2

      So the stupid clown has to pay $35,000. That’s chump change, his nanny keeper has the authority to write checks like that.

  • Sherbet

    I’ve been reading Bare-Faced Messiah. Why it took me so long to read it, I’ll never know. I just finished the section on lrh’s war experiences and misadventures, which includes the lies he told to the VA while begging for a generous pension. With every letter, his injuries were exaggerated further. On Pearl Harbor Day, I’m disgusted at lrh’s attempted con, and I’m shocked that good li’l scientololgists read the cos’s official lrh and believe it. Even when confronted with documented proof (such as lrh’s phony medals and citations), they still believe it.

    • USA MRIID

      Ron The War Hero actually covers the conman’s fake Navy career even better.

      • Sherbet

        Thanks for the suggestion, USA. I hadn’t read any books lately, because they fill me with disgust that I can’t do anything with. I keep a list of what I want to read, though, so thank you.

      • Noni Mause

        This officer is not satisfactory for independent duty assignment. He is garrulous and tries to give impressions of his importance. He also seems to think that he has unusual ability in most lines.

        – US Naval Attaché to Australia, February 14, 1942

        WOW

      • Eclipse-girl

        I wish this had been posted in response to Margaret on Mike Rinder’s blog

    • OrangySky

      Isn’t it an awesome book, Sherb? As the daughter of a REAL Naval Intelligence Officer from WWII (plus the niece of a REAL decorated SeaBee and a wounded vet of the European theater), I think it may have been the lies about the war record that clinched it for me about LRH. The man was a pathological liar who didn’t give a damn who he hurt. And yeah, Indies over at Rinders were defending LRH’s “war record” (including his “injuries”) just yesterday. I have so much empathy for the Indies but I cannot countenance someone who defends “Stolen Valor”.

      • Sherbet

        It sure is, ‘Sky. Very readable, too. I was amused to read that even Aleister Crowley wrote that lrh was a “con” who swindled Jack Parsons out of money and a woman.

        lrh sounds like drunks I have known, full of themselves and an inflated sense of importance, and the stories get more outrageous with the next beer. Unfortuntely, lrh didn’t become a resident of numerous drunk tanks, as an irrelevant and forgettable writer of fables. He found an audience for his fake science cum religion, and we know the rest.

        • OrangySky

          Exactly. And yeah, he’s definitely got that “narcissitic drunk” personality. And we know he liked his booze and drugs…but I think he was just a pathological liar out of the gate. I’ve met a few sociopaths like that who are stone cold sober and yet they lie almost as if they’re driven to do it. When a truth would not only suffice but triumph, they’ll choose a lie just because that’s what gets them “high” – the idea that they’re putting one over on you. If they could make $100 dollars honestly or $99 dishonestly (but with much more effort), they’ll take the criminal route each time. Because they need to feel superior, and there’s no better feeling of superiority to these people than pulling the wool over someone’s eyes.

          • Sherbet

            Good analyis, ‘Sky. I think some liars don’t even realize they’re lying. They say the first thing that comes to mind. After awhile, they believe their own inflated history.

          • Casabeca

            Your insight is so perfect on this…have you been spying on my family again ? 😉

          • Aslansown

            I’ve worked for one and finally had to get out before it destroyed me.

            I do have a question for you that I’ve really wondered….do they know they’re lying, or is it so natural that they don’t even think of them as lies? I’ve never before known (and hope to never again know) anyone like that…almost everything that came out of her mouth was a lie – to inflate herself mostly and at the same time bring my co-worker and I down – all while maintaining a charming and cultured personality and appearance to everyone else. So I’ve always wondered — at a certain point does she know she’s lying?

    • Sandy

      Amazing isn’t it. Margaret over on the Indy blogs has written extensively how the man’s military history is the gospel truth. Goodness…

      • Sherbet

        Poor deluded Margaret. Wake up and smell the conman.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I am so glad I decided to give up Marty’s blog!
          And at this point, it is not Marty.
          It is those nutters!

          I am sorry, but some of those people make me want to get in a fist fight.
          Idiots!

          • Cat Daddy

            Actually I think I make her ran of of Marty’s blog, She now is posting over at Mike’s

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Oh great………Oh well, she will get lost in the normal noise at Mikes.

            • OrangySky

              Mike’s is interesting. I like reading the comments there from time to time (and actually, at Marty’s as well) because (unlike here, which is all LRH-bashing all the time, I’m proud to say!) you get a pretty interesting cross-section, from Never-Ins, to full-out Exes, to almost full-outs, to the “Tech Indies,” to LRH acolytes. I think this gives a fairly accurate view of how Scientology decompression works…very slowly. Probably some will never let go of it, but you definitely see an evolution in viewpoints over time with most of them. Learning the truth about the organization must hurt; the truth about LRH must hurt even more.

          • Sherbet

            I can’t go to Marty’s, because I’m allergic to rah-rahing about scientology. I break out in a rash of Oh, God, DO YOU PEOPLE HEAR THE CRAZINESS??? So I stay out of there.

      • Once_Born

        Despite claims that he was awarded medals that were not minted until after he left the Navy.

        Amazing indeed.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I want someone to put Margaret down.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          You mean like put an animal out of its misery?

          • Eclipse-girl

            maybe?

        • Cat Daddy

          be good now

        • Robert Eckert

          I got sucked into arguing with Margaret over at Mike Rinder’s. Afterwards I felt like I ought to write something contrite 100 times on the blackboard.

          • Eclipse-girl

            Mike removed all of that before I read it. I am a bit peeved that he kept Margaret’s post up.

  • Valerie Ross

    Yesterday I was talking to someone about the Rinder chopper and flyover event.

    He said “If everyone would just leave them alone, Scientology would self-destruct in a matter of years. This harassing them from the outside just makes them want to fight more.” I explained to him that Rinder’s son was a captive in that building.

    I then showed him Lisa McPherson’s autopsy photos.

    He texted me today to let me know he was already halfway through with “Going Clear”, what did I recommend next, I told him BFG.

    People just don’t understand this isn’t just a “benign” (whatever Kristie) cult. It is an cancer. Ignoring it only allows the tumor to grow.

    Well done Lori. It is truly appalling the amount of work that a mother who has every legal right to see her son is being required to do for a short visit. Keep it up!

    • USA MRIID

      Interesting perspective, however Scientology has been “fighting back” less and less as the Internet has continued to expose them for what they are. Sounds like the someone you talked with have been finding that out.

      • Valerie Ross

        The only reason I think they are fighting less is because they are being attacked on so many fronts. Back in my GO days, we could count the number of “enemies” we needed to actively pursue on one hand. That list is so long now and the internal membership so decimated that the attacks they can do from within are scattershot at best.

        They used to be able to target their perceived enemies with much more precision and actually cause damage rather than have the supposed enemy laugh at the pathetic attempts like we do at the trolling and down voters here in the Bunker.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Tick Tock.
          Pendulum has swung.

          • Tory Christman

            Yes! Bury_The_Nuts….Tick Tock. 🙂
            Re what Valerie Ross wrote:

            $cientology is not going to “just go away if you ignore them” any more than any other bullies do NOT just go away. They are here for as long as there is $$$ and Power to be found, in any country, any way, any how. They do not care about the broken lives and families, and trust me, “Dave” …..your day IS coming. Karma you cannot buy off, or PR your way out of.

            Thank you to Lori, Inside Edition and Tony for the extension of this story!
            I cannot wait until your kids are safe and back in your arms, forever!!

            Also, great job, Mark Bunker. I look forward to hearing more of what you have
            to say to this “City Council” of floor mats. You need to wake them UP. I know you
            know this….it’s a tough job, but s/one has to do it. Maybe see if Mike Rinder will come
            talk about his own child refusing to speak with him. Thanks to ALL who post here, too!
            TICK TOCK BABY!! 🙂 Tory/Magoo

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              That is why I can’t ignore trolls, Tory.
              I “like” chew toys 😉

              heh heh heh

            • Tory Christman

              And BTN: FYI: Unless you add in *some* facts about Hubbard, “DM” or C of $ they don’t want know….they are happy you are “chewing” on them. It’s one HUGE distraction to them, and one of their goals.

            • Valerie Ross

              Tory she added a good one about me to Ray/guest that will keep them up for weeks looking for my folders. I’m so proud of her.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I will try to spew facts in between my gnawing! 😉

            • Valerie Ross

              Presented for your viewing edification:

              You know how discus is, her reply didn’t stay in line but it was

              🙂 good luck to him. I don’t think he is smart enough to find your folders.
              And I am done giving him hints!

            • OrangySky

              Tory, can you see my question above about the operational procedure re: internet trolling?

            • Tory Christman

              I cannot find it: can you just re-post it now?

            • Valerie Ross

              This was her question to me. I told her I was from the stealing copy paper era.

              OrangySky Valerie Ross • an hour ago −
              So how does this work, Valerie? Someone else patrols the blog, then determines whether or not we’re talking about something that needs to be “confronted & shattered”? (I laugh out loud when I read that term and think about what the trolls actually do – it’s pretty funny if you think about it.)

              Then if that’s determined, the appropriate bot is selected and pulled off post to do the job?
              I’m so curious about the inner workings of the Troll Kingdom. I feel like the more of us who know exactly the operational procedure, the more ridiculous they become.

            • chukicita

              Here’s something that might help that Tory wrote awhile back:

              https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.scientology/qrGabkKk0WU

            • Peter

              LOVE hearing from you, Tory.

            • Tory Christman

              Thanks, Peter 🙂

          • Valerie Ross

            Wouldn’t you be embarrassed if you were Marco and I posted that comment about how they were fighting back less and we were laughing at trolls and you had to be pulled off post immediately to troll the Bunker to “prove” they still had confront and shatter ability. Twenty minutes from my post to his. I wonder what they pulled him away from to do this. I hope he wasn’t mid-sec check.

            • OrangySky

              So how does this work, Valerie? Someone else patrols the blog, then determines whether or not we’re talking about something that needs to be “confronted & shattered”? (I laugh out loud when I read that term and think about what the trolls actually do – it’s pretty funny if you think about it.)

              Then if that’s determined, the appropriate bot is selected and pulled off post to do the job?
              I’m so curious about the inner workings of the Troll Kingdom. I feel like the more of us who know exactly the operational procedure, the more ridiculous they become.

            • Valerie Ross

              GO was mostly pre internet, I’m an old fart, Tory would probably have a better answer for that question as I was a “steal copy paper” type myself.

            • OrangySky

              OK!

            • chukicita

              Just speaking from my observation of trolls on a.r.s. and other forums over the years (including Tory, before and after) – there may be more than one flavor of troll. I’m sure limited eyes are actually reading. But the main idea seemed to be to distract (Dev-T, I think it’s called) and create factions by a lot of backchannel discussion. Maybe some poor thetan is ‘striking an effective blow’ by posting here, on his or her A-E. Maybe they hired some troll guns who they don’t have to be afraid will blow and will keep an eye on things here and report on mentions of certain things.
              After a time, the signal-to-noise ration on a.r.s. was ridiculous. But whether it’s good news, picking fights, forging posts, cancelling posts, or backchannel rumoring, it all serves the same purpose: to divide, distract and stop people from talking about meaningful things.

            • Sandy

              Well said. Thanks.

            • Tory Christman

              FTR: I was *never* a “troll” on ARS. I began posting on ARS in June of 2000, after breaking away from OSA. I was posting there by myself……trying to figure out what it was these critics knew that I did not. However, due to $cientology brainwashing, I couldn’t *really* ask…so I just posted nonsense: 4,000 posts in 4 weeks and in that time I met Andreas, and woke up and escaped out July 21st—never to return, ever. 🙂

            • chukicita

              Tory, you’re right – I was considering the time when you were setting up accounts for OSA — and I remember the 4 weeks when you made 4000 posts 😀

              I guess I was also under the impression that you had more than one account – there was one with the name Africa in it that for some reason I thought was yours.

            • Tory Christman
            • Qbird

              Thank you Tory Magoo.

            • Tory Christman

              You are most welcome, Gbird. As I said, most peeps know this story and have heard it from me, many times. However, since there are new peeps coming out every day, I figured since Orange Sky asked…I’d just make a new video of it: Easier 🙂

            • Sam Domingo

              Hi Bill Yaude! Get a real job!

            • Espiando

              And the very moment he showed up with his little picture from Taiwan, I’m right there to remind him of his carnal activities with goats. Oh, OSA, how downhill you’ve gone. Every time you show up, we need to just remind you of your boast to handle Anon in two weeks. Toothless paper tigers. They were a lot better when you and Tory were helping them, Val.

            • Valerie Ross

              Tory gets all the inter webs kudos. I was a “copy paper stealer”. Yes I am that old.

            • Tory Christman

              What does that mean: “Inter web kudos”….kudos for exposing their internet mafia actions? And paper stealer? Literally? HOW? Fill us in, plz. 🙂

            • Valerie Ross

              He’ll to the yeah. You were also one of their bots. But the kudos go for when you became a beacon of light. (Bowing to worship at your feet). Must screenshot! Tory replied to me I am starstruck. Yes you are THAT awesome.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              “Wouldn’t you be embarrassed if you were Marco”

              See Val, you could have just ended the sentence right there! lol.

            • Valerie Ross

              Everyone at the Bunker would have gotten it, but I wanted to make sure Marco understood it too.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Lulz!!!!

        • OrangySky

          “The only reason I think they are fighting less is because they are being attacked on so many fronts.”

          Well-said. The “enemy list” is far longer than the IAS membership list these days. Even a few thousand over worked OSA bots can’t keep up with it. Especially since the high profile “Enemies” (Rinder, Rathbun, Lori, Karen, Tony, Bunker, etc) have such wide and engaged supporters and audiences. Thank you Internetz.

    • Sherbet

      You’re right. There are still too many people of the opinion that “it’s harmless and just as zany as any other religion.” I think the usual sharp Sarah Silverman was the latest to add her uninformed voice to that group. Before her, it was Barbara Walters showing her ignorance in a public forum. The enemy of cults: Information.

      • Seannie5

        what did sarah say?

    • OrangySky

      Let’s hear it for the Bunker Education Brigade! Well done, Valerie!

    • Eclipse-girl

      Wonderful. TY.

    • junojones

      The only reason it’s this close to self destruction is the barrage of critical salvos that have been released non-stop since the invention of the internet.

  • SignsOfSuccess

    SCN and Taiwan, what you didn’t hear on Inside Edition

    • Espiando

      Welcome back, goat-fucker. We know about the Idle Morgue opening. And it still isn’t proof of straight-up-and-vertical expansion. No one’s going to show up there, just like no one’s showing up at the Milan Idle Morgue. You know, Marco, the place you go when the goats you fuck enturbulate you so much that you need some solitude and can hear the sound of your own footsteps.

      By the way, where’s that photo of Guillaume that you promised us to prove that he isn’t in the Hole? No, I haven’t forgotten. Say hello to your goats for me.

    • Graham

      Thanks for the update. One more empty building to be allowed to fall into disrepair. Idle Morgues indeed.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Smoke. meet mirrors.
      Scientology is toast.
      Have a nice day.

      • Jgg2012

        Except that toast is edible.

    • Valerie Ross

      YSCOHB

      • Espiando

        He sucks goat cock on Hollywood Boulevard. Remember, this is Marco The Goat-Fucker.

        • Graham

          Or somewhere round the back of the Stazione Centrale in Milano.

        • Cat Daddy

          Be Civil, He or she is probably a thai ladyboy

          • Espiando

            No, that’s the “family” he claims he has. You know, so he can fool the Mark VIII Easy-Bake Ovens at Milan Idle Morgue into believing he’s not out-2D with the goats.

    • nottrue

      Your goats are looking for you

      • Great White Clam

        OH good! Theres trolls and goats to play with!

      • Lemont

        Goatse? (refresh)

        • Robert Eckert

          Disqus has this post at minus-two up-arrows and minus-one down-arrow. I haven’t seen negative numbers on both sides before. I’m sure it will change soon.

    • Graham

      Strange. I’ve just googled $cientology News Taiwan and not a reference to be found. Looks like nobody cares Marco. Did this even happen? $camatology can do wonders with photoshop, so I’m told.

      • SignsOfSuccess

        You should write it in Chinese, dear.

        • Graham

          Just checking here Marco. Is this Confronting and Shattering? “You should write it in Chinese”. That’s the best you’ve got?

          • Espiando

            The goats are dulling his wits. Those wits he still has left from having gone through the TRs, that is.

        • Once_Born

          我願意打賭,只有大約50人在那盛大開幕“。如果出現了多了,你會向我們展示的人群的畫面。

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Sei patetico. Saremo i vostri amici quando ti rendi conto LRH è una truffa.

        • Snippy_X

          Googled ไซเอนโทโล and only got a few facebook pages that don’t mention any grand opening. There was a newscast asking if it was a cult. The tag was disease.

          https://www.facebook.com/ThaiScientology

          • SignsOfSuccess

            That’s Thai.! LOL

            • Espiando

              Yeah, your husband/wife had ample opportunity to teach you Thai, hasn’t he/she?

            • Snippy_X

              Your right, my bad. But why are all these Thai and Taiwanese Scientologist’s White, 20 -25 year old actors? Not one of them looks like Alice Wu. The true size of this building in the video is most suited for a strip mall.

              https://www.facebook.com/Scientology.taiwan

            • Once_Born

              How many people were there in the crowd?

        • Once_Born

          How big was the crowd?

    • Aslansown

      They do like their red bows.

    • Robert Eckert

      Did Davey show up there?

      • Eclipse-girl

        He was supposed to. Hadn’t they closed the org for a week or two in just for this opening?

    • Once_Born

      That rosette gets around.
      Pity the photo shows the building, not the crowd.
      How big was the crowd?

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Curious? no?

    • Snippy_X
      • Lemont

        Wow…. hadn’t seen that before. Amazing parallel with the Lisa McPherson tragedy.

        • Snippy_X

          Yes, creepy horrible psychological abuses that in both cases end in tragedy.

        • Eclipse-girl

          TY Snippy for reposting this.

          I fist saw it a day or two ago, courtesy of someone else.
          It is powerful.

          Look at how Alice Wu changed in only a few months.
          Understand that Alice Wu who her family would say was not mentally competent was made to sign something that she probably hadn’t even read, to protect the criminal organization. That is how low they will stoop

      • Noni Mause

        So VERY much to love about this vid!

        Firstly, Steve Cannane. FINALLY a journalist who’s done his homework! Mr Cannane absolutely slaughters their legal representative by not just asking the right question, but by asking several follow up questions – not allowing Co$ to get away with their usual blanket denials. THEN he refutes the guy’s statement by confronting him with actual CO$ policy docs that prove the guys denial is a lie. Just beautiful.

        Secondly, this is worth watching just for the lulz of seeing the only lawyer in Sydney who’d take their money. What a sleaze bag. Nobody else obviously wanted to touch this with a barge pole. His reaction to Cannane showing him the docs is a classic school yard comeback — it… it… it just is because I say so, right!

        Finally, and sadly, this vid is a reminder that what happened to Lisa McPherson is still happening today. Lest we forget.

    • Great White Clam

      Damn. I think I see the flying monkeys heading in!

    • chukicita

      Is this what you really thought you’d be doing when you signed on to help save humanity?

      What was your vision, when you first started, of what you’d be doing in or for Scientology? Is this it?

      SOS, I don’t believe you’re an idiot. I think deep down inside you know there is something wrong and you’re scared to think about it.

      You do have a choice. Whatever you choose, please understand this: in more than 20 years I’ve seen many, many people leave Scientology – on their own choice. I’ve yet to see ONE person choose to embrace Scientology after seeing all the information and making an informed, independent and uncoerced decision.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      How do you know that this happened? You have stated that you ONLY believe what you have seen with your own eyes!

      Besides, it’s just a building. What good is a building going to do for humanity..?

    • Lemont

      I heard a lot of the higher-ups in Scientology management have been noticing how David Miscavige is unable to do his job effectively, and the whole corporation is collapsing because of his incompetence. Have you noticed this too, SOS?

    • Noni Mause

      I respect your right to defend your beliefs, SOS, but you only seem to be able to do this by showing grand openings of buildings. Even LRH said that buildings were useless and the wrong path for Scientology to go down. A more effective way to defend your religion, for me at least, would be to show me pictures of Scientology funded soup kitchens and low cost housing for the poor, scientology scholarships to university for impoverished students so they and their families can educate themselves out of poverty, scientology hospitals that offer low cost treatment for the vulnerable and disadvantaged. Please don’t quote VM’s as an example of Scientology do-gooding – scientology shouldn’t have to wait for a natural disaster to occur before they help their fellow man, and when these occur, EVERYONE jumps into help and they don’t wear yellow t-shirts to try to get attention. They just pitch in quietly. I know. I’ve worked at a disaster site.

      • And I’m Cute, Too

        Soup kitchens? Housing for the poor? You mean, giving stuff away for free?!? But that would be “out-exchange”, as humanity’s-best-friend LRH would say. The cherch could never do that.

        Right, SOS?

        • Drat

          Worse. It would be rewarding downstats.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Philadelphia is taking Co$ to court because they purchased a building 6 or 7 yrs ago, and haven’t done a thing to . It is a problem called Urban Blight.

      The same is true for the buildings in Atlanta, St Louis and Chicago?

      If expansion were happening, why hasn’t Co$ repaired, renovated, remodeled any of these three buildings they purchased as Idle (M)orgs several years ago?

      • Chee Chalker

        I can reply for Chicago. The Co$ owns a large vacant building in the south downtown section. I’ll try to get some shots for everyone in the next couple of weeks.

    • Drat

      Where are the people? Surely there were more than 25 at the opening?

      • DamOTclese2

        They were able to hire maybe 10 actors. It depends on the size of the check Tom Cruise wrote for hiring them.

    • kemist

      Hooray !

      Another empty building to apply curtain tech in !

    • DamOTclese2

      They actually hired actors for this fraud? Amazing. Tom Cruise handed over another check to hire people. What a dolt.

  • Interested

    Hello… SOS is back! When are you going to join us. Have you not seen the difference between class (Leah) and downright vulgarity (Krusty)

  • Great White Clam

    Life would have been a hole lot simpiler if the navy would have just given L. Ron Hubbard the damn psychiatric disability pension.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Zackly, Great WC. If they’d given him the dang disability pension, then maybe he woulda just written his god-awful sci-fi and *not* invented a mental therapy, Dia-nut-ics. *And* a faux religion, $ci loon tology.

      • OrangySky

        Nah. He was too ambitious. He had that burning narcissistic rage to prove to the world and those who had ‘wronged’ him (the Navy, his University, his parents, his first wife, his second wife, yada yada yada) that he was a genius. Plus I sense he was bipolar and of course unmedicated and had bursts of crazy insane productiveness. It might not have been Scientology, but it would have been something toxic.

        • Great White Clam

          Imagine creating scientology with a self-help book along the lines of “I cured myself of mental illness and NOW for a limited time only! you can too!”

          Might be a hill 10

    • Lemont

      The one he cried and begged for

      • RMycroft

        Just like he cried and begged for more money for his “war injuries”. While he sure could have used mental help, I think he was putting on an act like all the other times.

    • Sydjazz

      So that is why he is so against psychiatry? What they couldn’t see he was nuts?

      • kemist

        No.

        He started ranting about psychiatry when psychiatrists ROFLed on his precious Dianetics.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

    Alexa update for Dec. 7: *refresh for image*

    Unfortunately I missed the numbers for Dec. 6. On the graph I entered the same number for today in yesterday’s place. Also the changes are according to the numbers from Dec. 5.

    Tony: US rank #15,780 – down 19 from yesterday.
    Scientology: US rank #36,468 – down 788 from yesterday.

    Difference: 20,688 – 769 more than yesterday.

  • Lemont

    How Kirstie got famous:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6uC7SgzTLM

    (A youtube commenter noted that Kirstie ended up on Star Trek, and one of the celebrities on this game show, Robert Pine, is the father of the current Captain Kirk, Chris Pine.)

    • Sherbet

      Wasn’t she lovely back then!

      • Lemont

        She did have some confidence (aside from her smile, which was limited by bad teeth)

    • Drat

      If anything, she looked happier then than she does now.

    • SandiCorrena

      Is she surrounded in her household with Sci-handlers like TC is?

  • grayzip

    Wearing the mic was a bonehead move

    • Sandy

      Wait a minute. Are you saying that this mother who has tried so hard all these years to get to at least speak to her kids, should turn down this national tv show’s request? A chance to get her story national coverage? Have you thought your post thru?

    • Sherbet

      I seem to take unpopular stands in the Bunker from time to time. While I won’t criticize anything Lori did in desperation, I, too, think wearing a mic was like waving red in front of a bull. I wish she hadn’t done it, but she obviously had her reasons. I hope there’s a happy ending to the Hodgson story, mic or not.

      • Sandy

        Sherbert. This TV program wanted her miked. What would you have do if you were desperate to speak with your child, plus get national coverage of your story?

        • Sherbet

          I’m not disagreeing, Sandy, and I wouldn’t say it was a “bonehead move.” I said above, “she obviously had her reasons.” Desperate times call for desperate measures, and her story is a heartbreaking one. But if I were Jeremy, I would have felt betrayed as well.

          • Sandy

            Fair enough

            • Sherbet

              I hear you, Sandy. I have a son, and I don’t know what I’d be driven to do to get him back if he were in the hands of a cult.

          • splog

            So what were her options?

            The real boneheads in the story are CoS (deliberately) and her son (by being duped).

            Lori hasn’t had a rational chat to her kids for years and trying to sit down and talk it through isn’t really working (it seldom does with CoS).

            So what were her options? If being wired wasn’t a good idea, what would have been a good idea?

            • Sherbet

              I can’t second guess what Lori decided to do. I’m just saying it’s my OPINION that Jeremy was incensed that his mother was miked, and perhaps the safer approach would have been to leave the recording device back with the photographers. Please — I know a parent has to do whatever they think is best. I’m encouraged by Lori’s take on what happened, and I’m happy for her. It could have backfired, but it seems it did not and that Jeremy had a grain of truth that “took” in his brain and, more importantly, in his heart.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              This was a no win on either side. The Mic I mean.
              Lori probably did it as part of the deal with Inside Edition.
              I can understand Jeremy being incensed.

              But despite that,, they got to talk to each other.
              Yeah, that was a huge point…but I think Lori explained it by being as honest as she was.
              It still wasn’t perfect, but getting to talk to a disconnected member of your family is in my opinion……Fair fucking game.

              Do what you have too.

              Do what you can.

              I think they both won that day (despite that issue).
              It is so sad a “religion” would do what Scientology does to people every single day.

            • Sherbet

              Well said, Bury. I totally disagree with grayzip’s implication that this was all about Lori’s ego. But I also understand what s/he was trying to say.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Grayzip is a twat.
              end o story!

            • Sherbet

              Oh, you silver-tongued devil!

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Yeah, yeah…I try to always stay diplomatic 😉

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Yeah, it was a problem.

          • marti

            ” But if I were Jeremy, I would have felt betrayed as well.”

            Until he sees the reason. He’s young. How old was Lori when she left?
            Hopefully, in the future, they will laugh about the microphone.

            • Sherbet

              I sure hope so, marti. And it was another opportunity to show the viewing public that scientology isn’t harmless and that real people are hurt, regardless of Ms. K. Alley’s lies about disconnection. So that’s a plus.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Sherbet……………I take unpopular stances quite regularly.

        MEH!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Shoo!…Or I get out the troll spray.
      And it is Toxic……

      ESPI?

      • Espiando

        I’m on it. Just give me a few more seconds….

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          I will file my nails or somethin…

      • Lemont

        Was that even a troll?

        • Espiando

          It fried up like one. I saved some of the breast meat for you. It’s the best part.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          More likely just a dork with an opinion….

          • Espiando

            And, as we all know, opinions are like assholes. All of us have one, and some have L. Ron buttplugs stuffed up theirs.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              And you my son, are awesome, per usual.

            • Espiando

              I try. That’s all I can do.

            • Lemont

              Especially you

            • Espiando

              My buttplugs have zero trace of L. Ron.

            • Lemont

              LOL!!

          • Lemont

            ..

      • Valerie Ross

        Step away from the chew toy.

        Edit: troll fatigue has set in. Heading for a good bottle of wine Errrrm I mean book.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Ok, mom!!!

          • Valerie Ross

            Good girl. Now come share this ummmm book hell wine with me and tahrs an order.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              On it!!!

    • Espiando

      We don’t give anyone a free pass here. When ill-informed idiots come along, we all respond in different ways. We happen to know Lori’s story intimately, from her contributions both here and elsewhere. She is a desperate person. Desperate people do desperate things, like put a giant rosette on a $200 million monstrosity on the Gulf of Mexico. We thus grant her understandingness in being mic-ed. Also, we’re never averse to seeing Disconnection put on television. It provides us lots of laughs when the Scilons go into denial mode.

      Now as for you, you cannot separate us with such pathetic trolling as this. Really, you need to look at this place more carefully. We survived Flunk/Ziontologist with minimal casualties. We keep surviving Marcotai and Bill Yaude trying to probe us for weaknesses, ignoring the fact that their own recta are well and seriously plugged. And we’re going to survive you, fuckstick. You don’t seem to realize that we get a thrill from Inside Edition money shots like Lori’s. As for Lori’s son, his feelings are simply collateral damage in this war. Oh, boo hoo that he felt bad about being on camera. Well, if he hadn’t been a complete twat and attempted to break the bond between him and his mother because some asshole in some moronic “religion” told him to do it or risk his “eternity”, then he wouldn’t have been in this position. I hate my mother, and I haven’t even done that.

      I have no sympathy whatsoever for Scilons. They get what’s coming to them. And you’re going to get what’s coming to you, assclown. Take your accusations, shove them up your ass (if it isn’t already occupied by an L. Ron buttplug), and scamper away before I accuse Marco’s goats of cheating on him with you.

    • SandiCorrena

      Lori has to protect herself however she can-I think the mic was just another layer of that!

    • kemist

      I think it’s good standard practice to wear microphones near scientologists, whether or not you’re accompanied by journalists.

      They are habitual liars. It’s best to document everything that happens, this way you’ll have proof if they resort to the tactic of accusing you of things you have not done. It’s sad to have to do this with your own son, but knowing what Lori knows I’d have done the same thing.

      • splog

        It’s very likely that the media producers insisted on the mic, it might even have been a no mic = no deal situation. They’re not there for charity, they are there to get a story and need to cover their own asses too. Best way to do that is with electronic evidence.

        I think Lori did what Lori knew she had to do. She knew Jeremy would blow up and be upset – it’s part of the CoS landscape. If he had reached out to Lori as part of some “recover your mom” program, you can bet your bottom dollar OSA would have been all over it with multiple people listening into the phone call and recorders going. He doesn’t really get a pass at being offended here.

        Lori should be congratulated for having brass ones big enough to do what she had to do. She’s in a tough bind and very little of it (if even any) is of her own doing.

      • Chee Chalker

        Good point…..remember the incident where Mike Rinder was surrounded by his family and they later accused him of attacking them? Good thing for Mike he was on the phone with John Sweeney and the entire incident was on tape. All I could hear was that shrew of an ex wife of his screaming the f bomb.

    • Chee Chalker

      If the only way I could see my son was to wear nothing but a microphone, I would. With apologies to the cameraman and also all onlookers….

    • Lemont

      I can see by your posting history that you are an intelligent contributor to other Disqus sites.

      I think the reason you are getting down-voted is that Ortega’s blog is the biggest gathering place for Scientology critics, and often the people in his articles read and participate in the posts here. So, in this case, people might get defensive since Lori reads and posts here. It’s only natural.

      Don’t give up on Tony’s blog.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        But don’t post again until you are more informed!
        This place is not for sissys …..or Scientologists!

      • Robert Eckert

        He came here from RawStory. I ran into him recently (though we had no directly interactions) when we were among those trying with limited success to talk sense into the heads of a bunch of “truthers”

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          Oh, OK, if he is from Raw Story…free pass for uninformed.
          Carry on..learn..

      • grayzip

        Thank you for the reply. I didn’t mean to imply that I minded the down votes or thought they were unfair of even that it was in any way for me to say who should vote what, I just wanted to know what specifically people felt I’d gotten wrong. And there was some of that mixed in with a lot of noise in the subsequent replies. What more could a commenter ask?

        I will say the last time I got so much “troll” nonsense was on AmericaBlog, which was regularly comparing Russia’s treatment of its gay population with Nazis and Jews; I thought that kind of overstatement could turn people off. And all I got after that was troll, troll, troll and then banned. For disagreeing with the prevailing view of the clubhouse. There’s a lot of that sort of nonsense here too — it seems to be a staple of more zealot-y sites and it is to no one’s credit, but also is water off a ducks back to me so whatevs.

        I check this site occasionally because I am as fascinated by Scientology as anyone and have read the two recent mainstream books. I understand that many of the commentariat have far more skin in the game than that. And I absolutely understand that since Lori posts here and many feel close to her they would not appreciate someone raking her over the coals.

        It’s not personal. If you go on TV, that’s the deal. You become part of the information landscape. Someone sees you on IE or reads about you here and has a harsh opinion and voices it with all the delicacy one does when discussing Justin Bieber. Which, if you’re Justin Bieber or his friends may feel harsh. But they can’t quite say “hey no fair” either. If they don’t like the deal the solution is easy: Stay off TV.

    • Lemont

      I can see by your edit that you didn’t read my post. Good luck with the aftermath.

      • grayzip

        Not sure what you mean.

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          ditto Grayzip………….what do YOU mean?

    • Jeb Burton

      You’re being a little harsh here. I think in her mind, she thought she was doing the right thing. Secretly recoriding him without his knowledge sounds like something OSA would do. Boneheaded is right. I would imagine she feels a lot of guilt, being one of the people whom I assume introduced him to the cult in the first place.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        This is why I love you honey 😉

        You see what you did there? You became one of us!

        • Lemont

          Nice insight. Jeb, like it or not, you are a Bunkerite. And a beneficiary to all the privileges entitled to a Bunkerite.

          • Jeb Burton

            Never. I wont be brainwashed by you nasty bunkerites.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Liar!
              🙂
              muah.!

            • Jeb Burton

              If I find myself agreeing with BTN, I change my opinion.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              Kisses Sugar!!!!!

            • Jeb Burton

              Chelsea tells me your not good for me. Sorry. What could of been.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              She Lies! who You gonna listen too?
              HER?
              Or me?
              She is a SCILOON.

              I am just a regular LOON… 😉

        • tetloj

          l like to think of Jeb as the Karl Pilkington of the Bunker.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            BWAHHAAWWWW HAAA HAAA!

  • Sydjazz

    Wow what a post. Lori i feel for you so much. How awful to not be able to see your children. Xxhugs from one mom to another. Kirsty alley i wouldn’t p@ss on you if you were on fire(an aussie term)how bloody dare you act all pious. Grow a frickin brain woman. Mark bunker you are one brave man speaking up for lisa. But please be careful. You are in their territory remember.

  • Lemont

    I love this quote from the BBC interview with Russell Miller, author of “Bare Faced Messiah”:

    “The whole religion is based on the word of a congenital liar and a brilliant confidence trickster.”

    • Satansthetan

      Amen to that!!!

  • SandiCorrena
    • Noni Mause

      They’re only starting to find out that accusations of bigotry cut both ways. It will come back to bite them in the a$$ more and more often now. Boo-yah!

  • SandiCorrena

    It is interesting that Tom Cruise just acknowledged the “shunning” in his deposition and then Kirstie comes along now and says it doesn’t exist…….ahhhhh one of you are lying KIRSTIE!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      That is one of the funniest things. They have NEVER been able to keep the lies straight.

      Hence: Opposite day!

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      BTW, nice new AV!

  • grayzip

    I reread the piece again and it’s credulous to the point of being downright deceptive.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      YAWNS………….

    • Sandy

      kiss kiss

    • Lemont

      Cool story, bro

    • Espiando

      And yet we believe it, and we’re some of the most skeptical people around. Seems to me your mental processes are defective. Weren’t the TRs supposed to help with that?

    • Lemont

      “Credulous to the point of being deceptive”

      That phrase is repeated in your post above, under a different username

      • grayzip

        Just saw this. I started typing on an iPad but hit return and it posted by mistake so I moved to the computer. Guess iPad wasn’t logged in?

  • RMycroft

    Interesting. A number of the Marty Rathbun/Mike Rinder smear sites seem to have dropped off the Internet today (or sometime in the last three days). There are still quite a few remaining, of course.

    • Miss Tia

      are they ones that were registered directly by the RTC & CSI??

      • RMycroft

        No. Those ones were registered while M&M were still executives and they’re parked. The smear sites are all with cloaked registration.

        • Miss Tia

          if they’re parked—all of ’em? they bought a lot….why in the hell are they still renewing them?? oh yeah, they’re an evil fruity little club!!! i know one of the marty ones was on the CO$ main nameserver….SMDH……

          of course whereas we KNOW they are behind the cloaked registered ones, we can’t prove it….

          wow, they’re trying to do internet cleanup?!? they are really clueless there aren’t they??

          • Drat

            It’s not like it’s going to help them. They’re disintegrating all the same.

    • sizzle8

      I’m sure Anons have many backups.

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    Awh shit…..gotta post it.
    I have gotten so WEAK.
    But look at that shit!!!

    Come on? How can your eyes not leak?

    • Ruby

      sweet!

    • aurora50

      This family needs all the Loving Golden Light we can surround them with!

      Blessings to All!

    • Noni Mause

      That is one happy man.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        He looks ten years younger, don’t he?

        • Noni Mause

          Sure does.

        • SandiCorrena

          He’s getting the light back in his eyes

          • DeElizabethan

            I have never seen that look in his eyes. ‘Praise the lord’ he looks so human and sincerely touched with having his son. Happy for him.

    • Sandy

      Ah Marti. Leaking eyes yes. Bless that baby. And bless you (Mosey always was blessed)

    • Chee Chalker

      Very sweet! This is what will return Marty to the human race. That is one big baby! Anyone know the birth weight? I love me some big chubby baby cheeks. There is nothing sweeter than that!

    • Jeb Burton

      Looks like a SB to me.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Oh SHUT UP!

    • Sarah James

      What a sweet little guy!

  • Walter Mitty

    Well that big opening in Taiwan on 07.12 – the Taiwan Scientology website knows nothing about it. Just go to http://www.scientology.org.tw and you can use Google translate to translate everything from chinese to english. But 99% of the information is the same as the us version. Taiwan also has a “activity” button – the newest entry is about the church opening in Ohio, February 25.

    And because I know you always wanted to know: This is David Miscavige in chinese: 大衛 密斯凱維吉

    • RMycroft

      It’s hidden in the alt text: “The translated materials are part of preparations for the opening of the first major Church of Scientology in Taiwan, scheduled for fall 2012.”

      See! Hold on, what year is it?

    • Great White Clam

      大衛密斯凱維吉吸好萊塢大道上巨型公雞。

      • Walter Mitty

        THIS made my day! Great!!!!!

      • Her_Royal_Blondeness

        Best reply of the day!

    • Robert Eckert

      I found the Portland opening from May covered, but it does not appear to have been updated for months.

    • Robert Eckert

      大衛 密斯凱維吉

      Big guard, Thick although triumph holds together by luck

    • Miss Tia

      his name in chinese looks like a tiny man running into a fully house, then in the following letters you see the house get torn apart, destroyed, barely standing…..yep, that’s accurate!!

      wow, he went to tawain?? really standing tall for once eh??

  • Great White Clam

    L. Ron Hubbard claimed to have visited Heaven. While in Heaven he took notes. Here is one statement about his travels in Heaven that was put into an official HCOB;

    L. Ron Hubbard, HCO Bulletin of 11 May 1963, “Heaven”

    [QUOTE]There are no devils or satans that I saw[/QUOTE]

    All I can say is thanx Ron!

  • grayzip

    I reread the Jeremy’s mom piece and it’s credulous and wormy to the point of being willfully deceptive.

    “Jeremy didn’t want the camera present. So, INSIDE EDITION cameras stayed at a distance”

    Presuming Jeremy said this, did the cameras stop recording? If not, how is that respecting Jeremy’s wishes?

    More pointedly, how is continuing to record audio without alerting Jeremy in advance — who allegedly had just made a specific statement about not wanting to be recorded — respecting the intent of his wishes?

    “She admitted that she did have an audio device that the camera crew had given her.”

    This tries to makes it sound as though it was perhaps an oversight that she may have forgot all about until he reminded her about it.

    A lav mike is designed to be undetectable and broadcasts uncompressed audio to a remote digital recorder, so they chew through 9 volt batteries. One would have to have been changed right before she engaged with Jeremy and it deliberately turned on for it to function remain functioning during their chat. Moreover, an audio engineer would have to be actively recording its signal nearby if audio for it to be an issue. She tellingly doesn’t say “it’s not on,” “its battery is dead,” “no one is recording from it.” Therefore: The show and she were quite deliberately and intentionally recording Jeremy’s chat with his mom against his stated wishes.

    Bringing me to my favorite:

    “She denied that she’d lied about the taping, which hadn’t come up at first.”

    Well first of all, yes, it had: He said he didn’t want cameras filming them. No, he didn’t specifically separate out audio from video and explicitly specify that he wanted neither of them recorded. Who would? And who truly doesn’t know what Jeremy was saying?

    But putting that whopper aside, there is still “which hadn’t come up at first.”

    Hadn’t come up. There were only two of them there, and only one of them knew about the mic. Is her position seriously that because Jeremy didn’t say “mom are you wearing a wire,” the fact that it turned out yes, she was ethically a-ok? Or at worst some sort of garden variety misunderstanding?

    Bringing us to:

    “But she said she was under the crew’s protection and needed to stay with them.”

    What exactly does she even think this means? What does she want us to think it means? There was no possible safe place for mother and son to go away from the camera crew’s “protection?” How is a camera crew even protection? They will film you being attacked, but that’s about it.

    The camera crew had to be there to film them. Self-evidently.

    All of which is fine, but she should say so. “I am here with Inside Edition. They are paying me. My contract states our conversation must be on-camera.”

    It’s not as sympathetic a position. People are mendacious. But Ortega is supposedly a journalist. I know he is treating a cooperative source with kid gloves, but there are limits.

    It’s easy to be more ethical than Scientologists. It’s no trick to be as ethical as Inside Edition. But the larger world has higher standards.

    Otherwise discerning readers will tune you out.

    • SandiCorrena

      YSCOHB

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      this way to the egress………………

    • Espiando

      You know what? Fuck Jeremy and fuck you too. Neither of you need to have your feelings caressed. No one does. He put himself into the position of being a subject for a story by a tabloid TV show. It was his decision to disconnect, and it was Lori’s decision to acknowledge the mother/child bond and try to restore it, by any means necessary.

      Give us an example of how ethical you are before moralizing to everyone in the known universe about how unethical Lori, Tony, and Inside Edition are. Show us, spunk-stain. Dox or get the fuck out.

    • Robert Eckert

      “How is a camera crew even protection? They will film you being attacked, but that’s about it.” And they will film you not attacking anybody, which is also very important. You are obviously not familiar with what happens when you get involved with Scientology, but false accusations about how you committed some kind of crime are a typical part of it, which recording the whole transaction avoids.

    • Sunny Sands

      Do you know for sure that Inside Edition was paying Lori? It seems highly unlikely to me she was being paid.

      • grayzip

        I do not, or who paid for any travel; my question is, was there an understanding that she wear the mic and stay in view of the camera?

        • Unex Skcus

          And in view of the post topic “Mother Gets To See Son”, your question about mics and ‘an understanding’ is relevant for what purpose?

        • EnthralledObserver

          Put yourself in this mother’s shoes. It’s been many weeks since she’s seen her child, she finally spots him, runs after him, tries to convince him to just let her talk with him, agrees to keep the crew at a distance, finally he’s comfortable and even gives her a delicious hug… I can tell you right now, she’s forgotten about the mic… until he directly asks her about it, and she doesn’t lie. WHAT A WOMAN… truthful and passionate, and unlike a certain CULT that lies its arse off to hide the truth constantly to preserve itself and conceal its multitude of crimes! Does it matter that Lori didn’t mention it straight away – NOT ONE BIT!

          • tetloj

            Thank you for cutting through the bullshit sophistry and getting to the heart of the matter EO.

    • Drat

      Dear Grayzip – why would Jeremy refuse to resume communication with his mother unless she does steps stipulated an external influence? Please – you’re just wasting space.

    • Baby

      Gray.. Do you know the history of this Evil Cult? Their crimes? As a mother I would do everything possible to encourage my child to listen to me. There is nothing stronger than a mother’s love.

      So yes I am asking you questions..

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Twat alert, sweetie.

        • Baby

          Okey Dokey.. Smokey.. xo

    • ArthurApplebee

      grayzip: Well spoken.
      In Scientology, all criticisms are attacked instantly, even when they are justified.
      In Scientology, raising questions is forbidden. Even those that, in a sane environment, should engender discussion.
      I would hate for the Scientology mindset with its knee-jerk rejection of questions and criticism infect the discussions here.
      You raise good points that deserve rational discussion.

      • Drat

        I think the borg got him. Actually, he is simply diverting attention off the real issue, as are you, which is this: we would not be having this discussion if a meddlesome “curch” ceased its meddling.

        • ArthurApplebee

          He was discussing the article. How is that “diverting attention”?
          Look, the Church of Scientology is a disgusting cult and gets more awful every day. But it isn’t OK to descend to their level in response. Just because Scientology is really bad doesn’t excuse any bad actions of those who oppose the church.

          Questioning some of Lori’s actions should be acceptable in a forum such as this – even if you disagree. She wasn’t as straightforward as I wish she had been and, because of that, she lost the trust she was attempting to build up. That’s very much worth discussing.
          If we discuss this, perhaps it will help other family members avoid such problems.
          Or, we could just shout down the questions and feel righteous about it.
          Arthur

          • Espiando

            Signing message board posts is considered tacky.

            Stop trying to play us with this line of “questioning”. It’s not going to work. We know how the cult works. We know Lori. We don’t care what measures she took to get in comm with her son. Your Dead Agenting attempt is dead.

            • ArthurApplebee

              Yeah, let’s just shout down the questions. Excellent. I had enough of this closed-minded crap when I was in Scientology, I don’t need it from you.

            • Espiando

              “When” you were in? You still are. Now I’m deciding whether or not you’re independently OSA or just gayzip’s sockpuppet.

              And you’re going to get it from me whether you want it or not. That’s how I roll.

            • ArthurApplebee

              I’m not the one running the Scientology-type ad hominem attack here. You are. I’m not the one blindly attacking questions like a Scientologist. You are. I’m not the one trying desperately to stop a discussion like a Scientologist. You are.
              I’d ask you to think about it, but thinking isn’t what’s happening here. Just like Scientology.

            • Baby

              Arthur.. None of us want to continue this discussion. Lori has only our blessing.

            • Espiando

              I’m a master at ad hom. It’s a very powerful tool in my kit. And I love using it as often as possible to point out what kind of pricks the cult creates. You’re demonstrating this tendency quite nicely. I’ll use any tool to stop Dead Agenting that I can, you waste of sperm. As for me “not thinking about it”, you aren’t worth the use of any of my multitude of brain cells, scumpuppy.

              Here’s another bit of ad hom for you to swallow: Naming yourself after a movie about a lush and a shitty excuse for a chain sit-down restaurant doesn’t make you look intelligent.

            • SandiCorrena

              You’ve just gone after the wrong person; this quote by Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman is apropos “BIG MISTAKE”.

            • EnthralledObserver

              There wasn’t a question… there was criticism of the methods a desperate mother would take to be able to see her children. I’m telling you right now, if it were me, there would be spilt blood involved. Lori is tame by comparison…

            • Sarah James

              Let’s talk about what rehab Kirtie Alley had or did not have.

            • Baby

              There is no discussion. Whatever this courage mother has to do to see her children again and attempt to get them out of this dangerous evil cult..

              I would NOT criticize her .. in fact if any of us regulars would help her we could..

            • Qbird

              Is your life better now that you’re out Arthur?

            • Qbird

              i did not know that Espiando ~

              Q 🙂

          • Sarah James

            Your not getting any where. What you do well is piss into the wind. Good job let’s move on.

          • Drat

            No need to be hostile. Come in peace, and so will I. It is diverting attention because the issue is still that she may not see her son because a “church” said so.

          • IASREG

            False equivalency. Showing up with Inside Edition is nowhere near the level of what Scientology has done to prevent Lori Hodgson from seeing her children.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Lori would like to speak freely and easily with her children, both in person and other forms of communication… she’s tried the polite way… now she’s fighting fire with fire. YOU tell the CULT to cease and desist their poisonous tactics and LET her resume a relationship with her children and you’ll find the need for WAR (fighting tooth and nail to see her kids) will disperse. THE CULT STARTED THIS – NOT LORI!

          • valshifter

            you are unable to build up ARC over here.

          • Lemont

            You are making a point about free exchange of ideas, but please realize you are swimming in a pool of support for Lori. We all are trying to help and support her today. Academics may be appropriate, but not today.

        • Guest

          I’m not diverting anything, but I am angry with the Bunker cult family. When I posted my real points of view, no one would reply. I got maybe a sympathy up vote or two. But it’s clear I was never welcomed into the cult family so now I derail because at least I receive some attention.

          • Espiando

            You know who else called us a cult? Marty. You know what else Marty said? That I was at Cause Over Everything. That means I’m at Cause Over You, bitch. And right now, I’m postulating your permanent disappearance. Well, not permanent. Just for the remaining length of your Sea Org contract.

            Vamoose.

            • Guest

              I am not a Scientologist, Espiando. I just have trouble fitting into social groups and it frustrates me.

            • tetloj

              Flunk?

            • Espiando

              “I am not a Scientologist” is pretty much a guarantee that you are. This makes the second sentence more believable. Maybe breath mints will help. At the very least, it’ll get the taste of dog and bull semen out of your mouth.

              ETA: Oooooh, he’s discovered the down arrow, folks! Look out!

            • EnthralledObserver

              So, your trouble fitting into the group is the group’s problem?

            • Guest

              you are talking to a clone

            • Room 101

              Then why are you on this blog?

            • SandiCorrena

              If you’re having trouble fitting in to social groups maybe you shouldn’t come into the bunker living room and talk smack about a beloved family member…. and you most definitely should not when Espiando is home; that’s like launching a bomb at yourself-no joke!

            • Guest

              you are talking to a clone

            • Guest

              clone

          • IASREG

            Because you were banned from posting under a different name due to your behavior you now derail? Not enough replies or votes? OK

            • tetloj

              Time to put this troll’s hair-splitting sophistry on ‘ignore’

            • Guest

              you are talking to a clone

          • Guest

            CLONE

      • Espiando

        No, he isn’t raising good points. He’s attempting to stir shit either because 1) he’s got a bug up his ass for some reason, 2) he’s trolling, or 3) his OSA masters have decided to try to Dead Agent Lori and this is a way that they perceive could work here. Bullshit it can. We know our Lori better than that.

        The fact that you’re defending this shitstain, of course, puts you under suspicion as well.

      • IASREG

        This false equivalency argument of Scientology abuses to the commentary on this blog are very bizarre. You can raise questions here and comments are very rarely deleted. You may not like the way the upvotes/downvotes go or the responses you get, but drifting into some false equivalency argument is just dumb.

        • Guest

          Sounds to me that you think that because you say something fancy and intelligent sounding like “false equivalency argument” from some book of argument winning that from now on any comparisons of Scientology and commentary on this blog can be swept under the carpet. You are human and flawed as anyone who walks the earth including scientologists. You will do asshole things from time to time just like they do unless you transcended being human, then of course i take it all back

          • Espiando

            I transcended humanity a long time ago. Even Marty acknowledged that when he said that I was at Cause Over Everything. Therefore, it’s perfectly acceptable to consider you something not worth wiping off my shoe.

          • IASREG

            Sorry, FLUNK101 that isn’t fancy at all. What are fancy are the contortions you make in your arguments.

      • valshifter

        there is nothing rational about a kid that does not want to talk to her mom because the cult wont let him. period. no discussion needed.

      • Robert Eckert

        Making sure that there is continuous video and audio recording of the entire transaction is only prudent when the Scientology goons have targeted you, as is the case with Lori.

    • Sarah James

      I feel a little sorry for you. Your empty.

    • IASREG

      There is a lot of back story that you may not be aware of. Lori Hodgson has been “Fair Gamed” by Scientology. She has been stalked, harassed, and threatened by Scientology, no surprise there. Scientology has gone to extreme lengths to keep a mother from seeing her children. If I were the parent of those children I probably would be willing to get much more extreme than showing up with Inside Edition. It is always good to have audio AND video rolling when dealing with Scientology.

      • Guest

        “It is always good to have audio AND video rolling when dealing with Scientology.”

        Who made up this BS meme? I went to a concert recently and all it was was thousands of people holding their eye phones up in the air recording the event. Family get together, same insanity, parents photographing and filming toddlers every move. People have lost their way. Being on TV is highest height a person can reach.

        • IASREG

          It isn’t a meme. It is a common protection for protesters who have been physically attacked by Scientologists while protesting Scientology. I don’t care what you think about photography in daily life.

          • Espiando

            True enough. It worked for my old protest buddy Strong Strength when Psycho Bitch from the Chicago Org attacked him a few months ago. Both times she tried it, in fact.

            • IASREG

              Lori Hodgson has reported being physically attacked by insane Scientologist Squirrel Buster John Allender. I saw the psycho bitch video!

            • IASREG

              Whatshisname Dom never did ID his client/coworker Scientologist for the police did he?

          • Guest

            like the paparazzi who think it is ok to harass strangers on the street, I am surprised more “protestors” do not get their faces punched in more often. i know if some person in a guy fawks mask approached me in a mask talk crap following me down the street, one of us would be going down

        • Baby

          TROLL ALERT TROLL ALERT TROLL ALERT

          • Espiando

            Don’t worry, Baby, we’ve got it handled.

            • Baby

              Ohhhhhhh I knew you would Espi.. That was a given!

          • Guest

            Cool trolling, bro

            • Espiando

              The fact that you can’t tell a penis from a vagina just says everything about you, doesn’t it?

            • Guest

              The most recent South Park had a hilarious story about a guy obsessed with floppy wieners.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGN3d3OlO_c

            • Espiando

              Well, why don’t you go away, watch it, and jack off to it? It might improve your attitude.

            • Miss Tia

              grayzip, guest, all you trolls, since you have a probably understanding words, here’s a visual…..

          • SandiCorrena

            I think they’re on break from SCOHB

        • Ruby

          unless you can’t get yourself noticed in anyway other than to try post on a blog with idiotic comments, designed to get a response?

        • kemist

          This is not about being on TV. This is about lying liars who lie.

          Scientotologists are habitual liars. They’re known for accusing people of made up crimes, and sometimes this involves spouses or children of perceived enemies.

          Always record any meeting with them so as to have proof to defend yourself should this happen.

          • Guest

            all humans are liars, there is a handsome collection of them here under tony ortega’s umbrella

    • Guest

      Very well said. The whole thing seems rich in self interest and opportunism and no integrity.

      • Drat

        Cramming on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights for you, too – if you aren’t one and the same staff member working over time.

        • Guest

          Cool trolling, bro

          • Espiando

            You’re definitely an expert in both areas of that, being full of shit and and a master at sucking bull cock.

          • Drat

            You changed it – it said BS before, I could’ve sworn! You’re funny 🙂 Good night.

    • Unex Skcus

      Jeremy’s mom piece … [is] willfully deceptive.

      Do you mean the fact that Lori would do almost anything to get her kids back? { }

    • kemist

      hello

      • grayzip

        Troll = person with an opinion different from your own

        • EnthralledObserver

          Troll is a person deliberately stirring up trouble, or diverting the issue/topic at hand. I’m not sure if you are one, but your definition is not accurate.

          • Guest

            from time to time you all ‘deliberately stir up trouble’, ‘divert’ the issue/topic at hand.”

          • grayzip

            I meant to contain that notion within “not being asked with good will.” i.e. not asking out of genuine interest but merely to get a reaction.

        • Espiando

          gayzip = person whose opinion is not worthy of considering due to it being complete and utter asswipe.

          • grayzip

            I am gay, actually, so calling me “gay” is not an insult.
            However believing it to be an insult betrays your homophobia.
            Perhaps you should ease up on the air of superiority until you get your own social conscience up to modern standards.

            • Espiando

              People here know quite well that I’m gay myself, so if you want a Bitchy Queen Fight, I’m all for it, Mary. My social conscience is perfectly fine. I’m just not beholden to it, especially when it comes to war. I’m an all’s-fair kind of person at those times. So go flounce off.

            • grayzip

              I apologize for my comment, I did not realize you were also gay. I still don’t understand why you called me gayzip though

        • Sarah James

          Lori made real progress. Glad it got to you. Glad it got to Miscabage as well.

        • kemist

          Not quite.

          Troll = rude person who insists on venting their idiotic brain farts

        • Guest

          Before you showed up, the Bunker cult family would only pay attention to my opinions and my distractions. I’m not asking you to leave, but your presence is really stressing me out.

          • EnthralledObserver

            grayzip is stealing your thunder? lol

          • Guest

            clone

        • Guest

          correct

    • Lemont

      “Otherwise discerning readers will tune you out.”

      Discerning readers don’t tune a journalist out based on the comment section. But thanks for participating, you have generated a lot of comments and, as a result, publicity for the blog.

      • grayzip

        True enough, though I meant that discerning readers may notice the same questionable claims and phrasings as I did on their own

    • EnthralledObserver

      I think you missed the point – the CULT is preventing this distraught MOTHER from having free and easy contact with her CHILDREN… and in order to have ‘some’ ‘strained’ and ‘restricted’ contact with them, she’s had to resort to these measures. It’s very sad, and I’ll bet my and my children’s lives that Lori would rather there not be a need for a t.v crew or listening/recording devices at all. And it would be so easy for this to happen – tell Jeremy and Jessica that contact with their mother will in no way affect their eternity – SIMPLE!

      • Espiando

        Glad to see you’re awake and with us, EO. You wanna come downthread and play with the trolls? You’re gonna really be pissed off when you’ve read what they’ve wrote.

        • EnthralledObserver

          On my way… thanks Espi!

      • Guest

        She did not “have to” anything. None of us “have to” anything.

        • Espiando

          Except that you “have to” suck the cocks of golden retrievers and bulls. You just can’t help yourself. They’re sooooo cute.

        • kemist

          So I guess I do not “have to” go to work monday.

          • Guest

            We are almost all obligated to earn a living but yes, I say, you do have a choice.

            • kemist

              Yep, go to work or starve.

              Perhaps you can show all of us how one can choose not to breathe ?

        • Guest

          Just an edit to clarify, since I’ve already deleted this comment, but I’m not sure if lobotomies are common in this century, and I’m not saying they are. Plus, I’ve only recently learned the word “governance” so I’ve been using it a lot.

        • EnthralledObserver

          That didn’t make sense – she WANTS to see her KIDS and the CULT is stopping her. Why isn’t that clear for you?

          • Guest

            ” she WANTS to see her KIDS and the CULT is stopping her.”

            What you are saying is not a statement of fact. That is what is clear to me.

            • Espiando

              If that’s clear to you, then your moral compass has a serious case of cataracts.

            • EnthralledObserver

              It’s fact – Jeremy said all would be good if Lori did the things the CULT says she needs to do for him to have permission to talk to her. THE CULT, via it’s rules, is stopping LORI from having contact with her KIDS!

            • Guest

              Is

              “all would be good if Lori did the things the CULT says she needs to do”

              an exact quote of what someone said?

              There is nothing factual about anything you wrote

              “THE CULT, via it’s rules, is stopping LORI from having contact with her KIDS!”

              Like so many on the internet, you seem to think that your spin and facts are related if not the same thing. I don’t see it that way.

            • EnthralledObserver

              How do you see it?

            • Guest

              I don’t have any of the facts. But I do know how to identify spin.

            • Espiando

              So, in other words, you’re giving an opinion based on none of the facts. What a big fucking surprise there, huh?

            • EnthralledObserver

              Well I do – Jeremy has stated his mother needs to do $cientology steps A-E and then he’ll be able to speak with her again. The CULT’s requirements are steps A-E to become a member in good standing with the CULT. Jeremy isn’t allowed to speak to him mother if she isn’t in good standing.

            • Guest

              If this was stated verbatim

              Then this is a FACT: ” mother, you need to do steps A-E and then we can speak again.”

              Is that exactly what was said?

              Opinion: “The CULT’s requirements”
              Opinion: “Jeremy isn’t allowed to speak to his mother if she isn’t in good standing.”

            • EnthralledObserver

              My facts come from several of Lori’s encounters with her son – and YES, Jeremy directly said that Lori needed to do steps A-E and then everything would be alright and he’d resume a relationship with her. He’s directly said to her that the CULT’s rules are the only thing preventing him talking to her and having her in his life. It’s FACT! The sooner you acknowledge that, the sooner you’ll realise that the evil is the CULT!

            • Guest

              For me, you have an insufficient interest in facts to have this conversation. Thanks. I have nothing more to add

            • Espiando

              You have a very strong opinion on what the definition of “fact” is. Let me guess, it’s true if it’s true for you.

            • kemist

              But, but, but it’s not a scientologist.

            • Guest

              Facts are excruciatingly painstakingly annoyingly cold and plainly specific. they have dates, times, names, and exact quotes and specific descriptions of what happened and are free of spin (inasmuch as language can or cannot achieve that.) To present facts, one kind of has to act and talk like Mr Spock from Star Trek

            • EnthralledObserver

              You are deliberately contorting yourself to avoid acknowledging the fact that Jeremy said he’d talk to his mother if she did steps A-E, which the CO$ has told Jeremy his mother MUST do before he’s allowed to talk to her.

            • Guest

              Do you have an exact quote of what was said?

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yes, I can lay my hands to it – I’ll have to go find it though – and in the meantime, feel free to peruse all of these videos where Lori explains what Jeremy and Jessica have said to her.

              http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lori+hodgson+scientology&sm=1

            • Guest

              And to be clear, there are two kinds of facts regarding quotes

              FACT 1: She says her son said this “xyz”
              FACTS 2: What her son actually said

              Fact 1 it is a fact that she said her son said xyz
              Facts 2 it is a fact that he said xyz

              Facts 1 and fact 2 are not necessarily the same

            • EnthralledObserver

              You are contorting again. You weren’t there either, remember, so for all you know what Lori says is exactly and precisely what Jeremy said. The point is, what purpose would Lori have to so desperately try to be with her children? Logic in this case, would dictate the obvious, that she wants to be with them. There is no ulterior motive… no conspiracy against the CO$, she just want to be WITH her CHILDREN! As would any mother…

            • Guest

              OPINION: “You are contorting again”
              FACT: “You weren’t there”

              “so for all you know what Lori says is exactly and precisely what Jeremy said.”

              What she says may be an exact quote and it might not be. My money would be on it not being an exact quote. Think of the telephone game. People change the words.

              “what purpose would Lori have to so desperately try to be with her children?”

              People want what they cannot have, it drives them crazy. I know lots of parents who do not spend every waking moment with their kids who might be away at boarding school in europe or elsewhere. It is no big deal There is no desperation or calling news shows or trying to sell stories. And because scientology is known for this kind of thing, people easily plug into a sense of victimization and unfairness that is waiting for them because that is what we do when it is scientology just like we are suppose to cry at funerals, that behavior is there waiting for us.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Seriously, you aren’t living in reality. You are so bogged down in minute details regarding whether it’s the exact quote, that you can’t see the bigger picture. CO$ is known for these tactics, as you yourself have said, therefore logic dictates that it’s not just likely, but practically certain that they are employing them again. Which in turn means that the likelihood of Lori’s version being completely truthful an incredibly high percentage. I am satisfied with those calculations, because I am free to add the instances up myself and draw conclusions. $cientology obviously limits the view of the wog world to personal experience only, but it is highly ironic that anything ‘factual’ announced internally in CO$, for example ‘Millions’ of members, is supposed to be accepted without the so called ‘FACTS’ – I call your BS – you aren’t really interested in finding out the facts, only disproving them, or in this specific case colouring them with doubt, for the benefit of your CULT!

            • Guest

              ok. lets leave it there then. thanks

            • EnthralledObserver

              Glad you finally admit it… thanks. *smug smile*

            • Missionary Kid

              The tech doesn’t work. We’re still here, and so is anonymous. Didn’t Wavy Gravy Davy declare that psychiatry would be banished in a short time, and that was at least a decade ago? Report to Ethics. You’ve been reading entheta.

            • Espiando

              Solipsism and stupidity is no way to go through life, son.

            • tetloj

              And now we see why people might resort to camera crews and microphone…”do you have an exact quote”.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Yes, indeed – there you go! Thanks teloj.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Oh, and before I go… I have some homework for you to do too – what other reason would you expect Jeremy to have for not speaking to his mother? If you care to enlighten yourself with actual facts, of course…

            • Guest

              Anything I say is speculation and guessing. I speculate and guess it has something to do with his commitment to his commitments to scientology and his commitment to his practices with Scientology. It is my opinion that it is a choice he is making after some consideration.

            • EnthralledObserver

              *groan* Oddly enough, we’ve come to the same conclusion then… his commitment to $cientology, via whatever method of gaining his allegiance – I believe there is fear and collusion – Jeremy is so committed to their practices, specifically in this case the practice of disconnection of disillusioned members, that he refuses to speak to his mother. Makemerich only need to announce once to members that speaking to whoever they want won’t hurt their eternity, but he hasn’t done it – why, because it’s about the control. If he lets them, he loses control of how they will react. So therefore the only conclusion we can draw is that CO$ denies its members from having relationships with SPs. In this case Jeremy isn’t allowed to have a relationship with his mother while she’s an SP, and the only way she can become un-declared as an SP is by doing the CO$’s steps A-E. And I didn’t need Jeremy’s exact quote to come to that conclusion, and apparently neither did you!

            • kemist

              It’s like divorce you see. Or a cold-shouldering a family member you don’t like. Fundamental right not to communicate, ect, ect.

              Moth/Turtlez has already had this discussion a few weeks ago on WWP, you see. He don’t need all those pesky “relationship” things.

            • Missionary Kid

              Who needs it? You’re just trying to bring everyone off topic. $cientology killed Lisa McPherson, and David Mi$cavige was responsible. The tech killed her.

            • Espiando

              Which I happen to have a very good capability of doing. I have no room for bias in my line of work, so I’ve mastered presenting the facts in excruciating detail. I know a fact when I see it. Lori is presenting factual information, even adjusting for bias. She’s done so in the past, with sufficient corroboration from other people who were in the cult. She is also believable, and has no prima facie reason to lie about what she’s been through.

              Just because this doesn’t fit into your goldfish-like worldview is not sufficient reason to deny the veracity of the information.

              Now fuck off.

            • IASREG

              This definition of fact is not a fact.

              fact noun ˈfakt

              : something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence

              : a true piece of information

            • Espiando

              You should hit him up for a redo of word-clearing, REG. Sounds like he needs it.

            • IASREG

              I am positive this is FLUNK101, who of course may also be other socks. I think a clay demo of something that exists as a fact could clear it up for him. Let’s try the sun. The sun exists. This is a fact that does not require some sciloonery definition of truth. There is plenty of evidence to back up this fact and it is such common knowledge that no sane person is going to require the date, time, name, quotes, and exact descriptions.

            • Guest

              OPINION: the sun exists
              FACT: IASREG wrote the sun exists.

              The sun could have burnt out 1 minute ago and that view has not reached us yet. It is not a fact that the sun exists.

            • Espiando

              Don’t start in with the Schroedinger/Heisenberg shit, sonny. I know a helluva lot more about that than you do. Prepare to have circles run around you like I was doing the Cause Resurgence Rundown and you were the pole.

            • Guest

              I totally get that you are intelligent and maybe the most intelligent person here. I don’t doubt that you could make me look stupid very easily and very fast.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I’m giving you an up-vote for that…

            • Missionary Kid

              He doesn’t need to make you look stupid. You’re doing a very good job of doing that yourself. Why, if $cientology is such a superior religion, didn’t any of the other Scientology executives appear at the SP building opening?

            • Guest

              Cool trolling, bro.

            • IASREG

              No. The sun won’t burn out immediately! Look at the moon dude! It’s still shining so the sun is still there. Besides, when the sun burns out it is going to expand and burn this planet to a crisp anyway in a few billion or so years. Here’s something. Marijuana exists, trust me this is a fact. Maybe you could try some, it certainly won’t hurt your debate skills and might make you feel better. Also, you could try nicotine… many self-medicate that way.

            • Guest

              sunlight takes 490 seconds to reach the earth. it might have burnt out 245 seconds ago. we will know in 490 seconds that it actually ceased to exist 490 seconds ago

            • Espiando

              Ooooooh, look who knows a very slight amount about relativity and the speed of light, and is attempting to apply it to an experiential framework. You know that this framework was pretty much discredited by the Greeks 2400 years ago, right? You might as well just spend your time at the zoo masturbating the bonobos than sprouting that shit. At least the chimps will produce something and be happy at the end.

            • IASREG

              No. Stars go through stages as they die. Have you done a lot of hallucinogens in the past?

            • Missionary Kid

              That’s it. Move the subject along to something other than $cientology. Aside from the fact that David Mi$cavige is now hanging out with Laurisse Schtuppendwarf instead of his 2D, the head or the criminal enterprise known as $cientology is going against LRH’s own declarations.

            • Aslansown

              Tory talked about this technique. Just post as many times as possible off-topic to push the other content down the page. I don’t remember the name of it. Anyone? Buehler?

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s also done to drag people off topic. It’s bullshit. Just keep posting facts about the evil of $cientology, as well as stories from people who witnessed the fucked up things that LRH & DM have ordered. Ask them questions about $cientology. They’ll love to try to take you off of it.

            • Aslansown

              Yeah — good ideas. Sometimes I get frustrated b/c I feel like the people that respond to them are helping them accomplish their goal to drag us off topic, but what do I know? I’m pretty new to all this stuff, so I just tend to watch from a distance.

            • Guest

              yes, you people here are “positive” about allot of things. you have that in common with the scientologsts. you are both certain that YOU are in possession of THE truth.

            • Guest

              And yes, in my opinion “Fact” is just a made up concept, so is the universe. At least that is my story and I am sticking to it.

            • EnthralledObserver

              I know the truth – the truth is FACT. You refuse to accept truth as fact, and therefore LRonny’s world suits you better. Best of luck with that.

            • Guest

              Yes, you have that in common with the scientologists, you both think you have THE truth and The answer. Best of luck with that.

            • Espiando

              The truth: you suck the cocks of golden retrievers. The answer: you like the taste of dog spunk. The opinion: you’re a sick, stupid fuck with the same worldview as a goldfish.

            • EnthralledObserver

              If it’s true for me… and that seems about right… lol

            • EnthralledObserver

              I am not a seeker, I am happy with reality. I have the TRUTH and FACTS of this particular issue regarding Lori and her son/children… your attempt to insinuate I’m referring to other things, especially the ‘answer’ in general to life and all problems, is pathetic and ineffectual.

            • Guest

              Like I said, you claim that you have THE truth.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Do you have an ALTERNATIVE truth you like to operate on?

            • Guest

              I don’t have any Truth. I have strong opinions and lots of them but I don’t know shit from shinola about the TRUTH. I also think I know spin when I hear it.

            • EnthralledObserver

              If you, as you claim, don’t know what the facts in this case are, what basis do you employ to decide I don’t have them?

            • Guest

              It is just an opinion I have.

            • Guest

              Err, edit to clarify: I am saying that I “think I know” I can identify spin, whereas earlier I definitively stated that I can identify spin. I know you Bunker cultíes will point out inconsistencies immediately. My problem is that I delete my posts before I can edit them.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Guest Guest

              • 5 minutes ago

              +

              Err, edit to clarify: I am saying that I “think I know” I can identify spin, whereas earlier I definitively stated that I can identify spin. I know you Bunker cultíes will point out inconsistencies immediately. My problem is that I delete my posts before I can edit them.

              see more
              Deleting posts… whatever for?

              0 0

            • IASREG

              He deletes the posts so to there are no screenshots, or fewer of them.

            • Guest

              i do not delete posts and that is a clone

            • Guest

              clone

            • Unex Skcus

              Ah, right, you have “strong opinions” about “shit I don’t know”. What a waste of space you are.

            • Unex Skcus

              “My Opinion is the Fact is an Opinion, and that’s a Fact.”

            • Interested

              Good Lord, her/him, you are a fool. You spout without reading. Just read a golden rod, try reading Tory’s then you will see what the cult demand. Ask yourself where is Shelly, where are the executives that have disappeared into the hole. how come KA says there is no disconnection, but has now admitted to cutting Leah out of her life, how come lori’s son says he cannot see her unless she does the a to e LRH policy by the way.
              please get a real life, one with truth.

            • Missionary Kid

              If you have nothing more to add, then why do you?

            • i-Betty

              WE BELIEVE THAT DISCONNECTION IS CRUEL AND WRONG

              Helpline:

              1-866-XSEAORG – The call is completely free and can be made from any public telephone

              If you’re a Scientologist reading this and you are having doubts about your religion, whether it be the doctrine, the incessant, relentless regging, or the leadership, but are afraid to leave because it’s all you’ve known, or you’re afraid of what to expect on the ‘outside’, please give the number on Baby’s sign (below) a call; it’s totally free. You can speak anonymously and in strict confidence to somebody who can help you, and will receive non-judgmental moral support, as well as real advice for setting up your new life and getting back on your feet.

              I promise you, the outside world isn’t the enemy. As in all walks of life, some people are idiots, but most people are kind, hard working, honest, loving individuals, just living their lives. Many, many people have already left Scientology and are living happy, fulfilling, peaceful lives filled with family and friends – old and new – who love them. They, too, felt your fears as they began their break away from the church. Some took a leap of faith and discovered that the landing was soft, welcoming and forgiving. Some needed to take baby steps. But they all moved in one direction: towards the door.

              For them, every day is now an adventure and they are the architects of their own lives.

              You may be feeling:

              Sadness and loss over saying “goodbye” to those ideals in the group you thought you could admire, the fellow members you thought were your true friends, or the time and money spent following something which turned out to be false…

              Fear, that this may have been your last hope for happiness, success, enlightenment, or your eternity; that you are no longer protected by the powers of your leader and are vulnerable to evil; that you will make bad decisions for yourself without the group’s guidance, or that you will be punished for leaving…

              Loneliness, at the thought of leaving intensive relationships, and now needing to reconnect with family and friends who live in a manner that your religion criticized…

              Confusion, about what to believe, and how to make good decisions for yourself and your future…

              Guilt, possibly associated with having broken ties to loved ones, or for having recruited others into Scientology…

              Shame, when realizing you were involved in an organisation that maybe made you behave in a way that you’re not proud of…

              If Auditing and Training are still important to you they are both available outside the church, but without any of the hoops attached which you are currently expected to jump through…it is cheaper, and there will be no sec checking.

              It might help you to hear stories from others who were in your exact same situation. There is a great website called The Big List That Left Scientology. Here is the link: https://sites.google.com/site/biglistthatleftscientology/ Click on the alphabetical letters across the top to find people you may have known, and to read some inspirational stories.

              You might also like to look at the “Dear Scientologist” series of letters written by ex-Scientologists which are specifically tailored to be free of any reference to OT materials. They are beautifully written and might begin to help you make sense of your questions and confusion. Here is the link: http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/dear-scientologist2.htm

              Last, but by no means least, the Freeloader Debt is NOT legally enforceable – that means they can’t make you pay it.

              Call the Toll Free number. It might just be the first step to the rest of your life.

              And call your family. Please. They never stopped loving you and hoping that one day you would come back to them. The Christmas holidays are near. Give them a call, send them your love. No guilt, no shame.

              We wish you so much luck and love.

            • Espiando

              “Opinion” backed up with first-person observations and experiential data is usually referred to as “fact”.

            • IASREG

              That’s a stupid argument. Not all verbatim statements are facts and a fact does not have to be a verbatim statement.

            • Unex Skcus

              “My Opinion is the Fact is an Opinion, and that’s a Fact.”

            • Guest

              correct

            • Unex Skcus

              ^ Sorry, but you just didn’t get that, did you?

            • Unex Skcus

              To EnthralledObserver: “There is nothing factual about anything you write

              Now it’s: “I dont have any of the facts.

              Are you LRH reincarnated? He was – and this is a factual fact – the master of outright contradiction.

            • EnthralledObserver

              It was a pathetic attempt, wasn’t it… LOL!

    • DamOTclese2

      What is fascinating is that an investigative media outlet was needed to sidestep the Scientology criminals who were standing between a mother and her son. Scientology’s core human rights atrocities are overwhelmingly news worthy and what’s more important is that it worked: The crime syndicate could not stop the mother from finally being able to hug her son.

      Scientology, it really is far worse than people realize.

    • valshifter

      yeah blah blah blah, whatever no ARC for you here

    • grayzip

      A lively discussion which I wholeheartedly appreciate. Thank you one and all. Quick addenda:

      1. “Troll,” used so loosely, loses all meaning. It says “I don’t have/want to formulate a response, but I don’t need to because you aren’t asking with good will.” This strikes me as both self-serving and lazy, affording moral superiority while requiring zero rigor or substance. And of course absent any substance, there can be no intelligent response. You win? No, but perhaps wielding “troll” feels like winning, and perhaps that is enough for some.

      2. From what I understand about both Scientology and disconnection, a mother longing to reestablish contact with her son might very well have to resort to tactics such as showing up at his place of work to propose it and try talking sense into him, and even then the chances of genuinely getting through to him long-term would be iffy. But ambushing him with a crew from a national TV show in tow is an entirely different thing (even if that’s the story the show itself hopes to tell,) one which it seems to me any sane person would understand has a zero percent chance of success. It is the opposite of creating a safe place for your son to talk with you. It puts him on the spot and guarantees swift church intervention. So much so that it does not even seem like the action could finally be about — let alone for — the son. It is the action a mother takes in order to get on TV. If you want to argue that she is doing activism, I’m a little fuzzy on the exact cause but will grant that publicity is generally valuable when raising public awareness. But she is doing so by using her son, and frankly at the expense of her son. It just all strikes me as an exceedingly strange way for a mother to go about showing her son that he is loved.

      • Espiando

        Let me just cut to the chase: a lot of people here simply don’t give two shits what you think. Why don’t you just shut up? You’re not going to convert anyone to your side, especially with the approach you took.

        • grayzip

          My laugh of the day: You complaining about another’s commenting etiquette. BTW congratulations on getting through one without an ad hominem homophobic animal-sex remark.

          As to the substance of your remark, generally speaking reader comments left on news blog stories are not principally for the handful of regulars who may be using that space as a sort of clubhouse

          • Espiando

            I utilize etiquette when I choose to. In responding to you, I don’t. So go toddle away and continue blowing dogs, because God knows that a human male wouldn’t have you.

            • grayzip

              You realize you aren’t funny, right?

            • Espiando

              You realize you aren’t credible, right?

      • tetloj

        I think you may need to read more Grayzip. There is decades worth of information about the actions and abuses of the criminal organisation known as the Church of Scientology which put Lori’s actions in context.

        Seen without this context, I can understand how someone might see her actions as self-serving fame-whore.

        This is not the case here.

        A very painful example of disconnection was the death of Alexander Jentzsch and how his mother was cruelly prevented from even seeing his corpse.

        This is a clear example of the depraved behaviour of an entity that dares pass itself off as a church (for the tax exemption).

      • kemist

        Perhaps you should think a bit about this :

        Given the way the cult operates, such activism and publicity might be the only way she might have to get her son back.

        It has happened before. People have been let go because keeping them in is too costly in bad publicity for the cult.

        The church is using her son as bait to make her shut up. If she does, disconnection goes under the radar, people continue to suffer, including her.

        • grayzip

          Good point.

      • Guest

        FREAKING BRILLIANT:

        “1. “Troll,” used so loosely, loses all meaning. It says “I don’t have/want to formulate a response, but I don’t need to because you aren’t asking with good will.” This strikes me as both self-serving and lazy, affording moral superiority while requiring zero rigor or substance. And of course absent any substance, there can be no intelligent response. You win? No, but perhaps wielding “troll” feels like winning, and perhaps that is enough for some.”

        • Missionary Kid

          What can you add about $cientology to the discussion?

          • Guest

            I don’t owe you SFA son.

            • Missionary Kid

              You don’t want to stick to the main thread of this blog, do you? Aside from the fact that other countries refuse to consider $cientology a religion, and, in the case of Germany, have declared that the membership in that country is too small to worry about, and that the Norwegian organization is bankrupt, what can you tell us?

            • Guest

              Cool trolling, bro

            • Missionary Kid

              Thank you, and how was the Super-dooper Power, er Flag building opening?

            • Guest

              Cool trolling, bro

            • Missionary Kid

              So, how was the opening?

      • Guest

        EXACTLY:

        “But she is doing so by using her son, and frankly at the expense of her son. It just all strikes me as an exceedingly strange way for a mother to go about showing her son that he is loved”

        • Espiando

          Except it’s only exceedingly strange if you’ve been raised by wolves, which you two apparently were.

          • Guest

            I enjoy and admire your sense of humour and quick wit. Hopefully you have this edge of the computer as well. You must work as a stand up comedienne. If not, you should.

            • Missionary Kid

              So, why weren’t you in Clearwater to her the magnificent speech that COB delivered at the opening of the SP building?

            • EnthralledObserver

              I want to know how you would go about getting your children back from the clutches of the CULT… or aren’t you allowed children? Have any attempts been aborted?

            • Guest

              I have no interest in your condescending substandard behaviour.

            • Missionary Kid

              So, who have you disconnected from?

            • Guest

              Cool trolling, bro 😉

            • Missionary Kid

              How long have you been a $cientologist? Is this your A to E?

            • Guest

              Cool trolling, bro

            • Missionary Kid

              {{You seem to have a way with words: the same ones over and over.}}

            • EnthralledObserver

              Confront is at maximum… not.

            • Missionary Kid

              I think Xenu is up Uranus.