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	<title>
	Comments on: Blogging Dianetics, Part 2: The State of Clear!	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2017 12:18:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin Hogan		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-1722854</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Hogan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2017 12:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-1722854</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m specialer than all you guys, I was &quot;Dianetic Clear&quot; Persistent needle floater. That became a problem after a while, of course.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m specialer than all you guys, I was &#8220;Dianetic Clear&#8221; Persistent needle floater. That became a problem after a while, of course.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin Hogan		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-1722850</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Hogan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2017 12:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-1722850</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-72903&quot;&gt;whingeybingey&lt;/a&gt;.

I have been pondering that myself, I see some new discovered science on TV and I think ,&quot;The old man knew about that in the 50&#039;s, how could he just be a shyster.? I&#039;ve been out for over 20 years after having been in for 20. I was always a special case, &quot;Dianetic clear!&quot; and I was constantly in Ethics for trying shove &quot;Keep Scientology working.&quot; up some staff members arse.  But then we were all special weren&#039;r we, that was the &quot;real&quot; theta trap...carry on]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-72903">whingeybingey</a>.</p>
<p>I have been pondering that myself, I see some new discovered science on TV and I think ,&#8221;The old man knew about that in the 50&#8217;s, how could he just be a shyster.? I&#8217;ve been out for over 20 years after having been in for 20. I was always a special case, &#8220;Dianetic clear!&#8221; and I was constantly in Ethics for trying shove &#8220;Keep Scientology working.&#8221; up some staff members arse.  But then we were all special weren&#8217;r we, that was the &#8220;real&#8221; theta trap&#8230;carry on</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karen Eckhoff		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-1004330</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen Eckhoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2015 11:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-1004330</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve only recently become interested in this, and find it very helpful to understand a timeline of LRH&#039;s activities and fallings out that occurred so early on, and lack of any real credibility from the start. He came out swinging at detractors and built so many layers upon layers of excuses, explanations, distractions, and lies to protect his enterprise from the IRS and plain old common sense, that paranoia became de rigeur, and one of Scientology&#039;s main operating principles. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve only recently become interested in this, and find it very helpful to understand a timeline of LRH&#8217;s activities and fallings out that occurred so early on, and lack of any real credibility from the start. He came out swinging at detractors and built so many layers upon layers of excuses, explanations, distractions, and lies to protect his enterprise from the IRS and plain old common sense, that paranoia became de rigeur, and one of Scientology&#8217;s main operating principles. </p>
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		<title>
		By: 8T		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-182700</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[8T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-182700</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems that the church uses opposition as a propaganda tool - they want to twist the story so they are made out as people persecuted for their beliefs. If you think about it aren&#039;t ALL religions were made up? For instance, Scientology books should be in the science fiction section of libraries..... and The Bible should be in the Fantasy section next to Harry Potter. As a spectator of this quirky sci-fi religion and it&#039;s constant tabloid stories and also as someone who likes to study world religions..... I see a better approach to opposing &#038; weakening the organization. Groups opposing it should take aim at certain aspects that resonate with the members themselves - such as mention that certain people should be gotten rid of quietly and without sorrow etc. (science of survival). Also, they should hit hard on passages from LRH books on the role of women, the dated and bigoted view on gays, and his odd ayan rand paranoid libertarian views, his fantastical claims that it can cure diseases like cancer. etc. lol. Forget about the Xenu story, who cares. It is crazy, but so is believing in that there&#039;s a guy with horns and a tale called the devil. Also doesn&#039;t the bible make fantastical claims about Jesus healing people - and the controversy surrounding Christian Scientists etc.  If you look at other religions - lets say the Catholic church for instance - what really changed it was Martin Luther, Calvin and then it kept splintering over and over again, that&#039;s how it was really weakened - through competition, through changing the doctrine, altering and revising. Buddhism came from Hinduism, Christianity broke away from Judaism, and then Islam broke from the two.  Thomas Jefferson took a pair of scissors and glue to the Bible - removed the fantastical claims. Why doesn&#039;t someone do the same to Dianetics? Paul Haggis&#039;s catalyst for leaving the Church was Proposition 8. So it seems like there might be a good market for a new liberal and Revisionist* break away. Like Jefferson, delete all the passages that are fantastic - delete bigoted remarks about minority groups, gays, women etc. - remove passages opposing communism. etc. etc. I&#039;m no scientologist. I&#039;m also no christian either, but I definitely think it&#039;s a good &#038; healthy thing that there are progressive christians out there to counter some of the crazier elements in fundamentalist or conservative branches. If we want to ever see the abusive church in decline - there must be counter movements on the rise - competition for members - cheaper auditing - etc.   In my opinion this is the best mechanism to break the camel&#039;s back. That&#039;s how it&#039;s happened with historically with other movements]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that the church uses opposition as a propaganda tool &#8211; they want to twist the story so they are made out as people persecuted for their beliefs. If you think about it aren&#8217;t ALL religions were made up? For instance, Scientology books should be in the science fiction section of libraries&#8230;.. and The Bible should be in the Fantasy section next to Harry Potter. As a spectator of this quirky sci-fi religion and it&#8217;s constant tabloid stories and also as someone who likes to study world religions&#8230;.. I see a better approach to opposing &amp; weakening the organization. Groups opposing it should take aim at certain aspects that resonate with the members themselves &#8211; such as mention that certain people should be gotten rid of quietly and without sorrow etc. (science of survival). Also, they should hit hard on passages from LRH books on the role of women, the dated and bigoted view on gays, and his odd ayan rand paranoid libertarian views, his fantastical claims that it can cure diseases like cancer. etc. lol. Forget about the Xenu story, who cares. It is crazy, but so is believing in that there&#8217;s a guy with horns and a tale called the devil. Also doesn&#8217;t the bible make fantastical claims about Jesus healing people &#8211; and the controversy surrounding Christian Scientists etc.  If you look at other religions &#8211; lets say the Catholic church for instance &#8211; what really changed it was Martin Luther, Calvin and then it kept splintering over and over again, that&#8217;s how it was really weakened &#8211; through competition, through changing the doctrine, altering and revising. Buddhism came from Hinduism, Christianity broke away from Judaism, and then Islam broke from the two.  Thomas Jefferson took a pair of scissors and glue to the Bible &#8211; removed the fantastical claims. Why doesn&#8217;t someone do the same to Dianetics? Paul Haggis&#8217;s catalyst for leaving the Church was Proposition 8. So it seems like there might be a good market for a new liberal and Revisionist* break away. Like Jefferson, delete all the passages that are fantastic &#8211; delete bigoted remarks about minority groups, gays, women etc. &#8211; remove passages opposing communism. etc. etc. I&#8217;m no scientologist. I&#8217;m also no christian either, but I definitely think it&#8217;s a good &amp; healthy thing that there are progressive christians out there to counter some of the crazier elements in fundamentalist or conservative branches. If we want to ever see the abusive church in decline &#8211; there must be counter movements on the rise &#8211; competition for members &#8211; cheaper auditing &#8211; etc.   In my opinion this is the best mechanism to break the camel&#8217;s back. That&#8217;s how it&#8217;s happened with historically with other movements</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pale Rider		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-151590</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pale Rider]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jun 2013 15:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-151590</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-72987&quot;&gt;Alanzo&lt;/a&gt;.

Ummmm...is there such a thing as a perfect computer??]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-72987">Alanzo</a>.</p>
<p>Ummmm&#8230;is there such a thing as a perfect computer??</p>
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		<title>
		By: tetloj		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73161</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tetloj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2013 04:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-73161</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://www.salon.com/2005/06/28/dianetics/



Found this link in a Salon review of wright&#039;s book - a review of Dianetics from 2005!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.salon.com/2005/06/28/dianetics/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.salon.com/2005/06/28/dianetics/</a></p>
<p>Found this link in a Salon review of wright&#8217;s book &#8211; a review of Dianetics from 2005!</p>
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		<title>
		By: DeElizabethan		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73160</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DeElizabethan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-73160</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73158&quot;&gt;Chuck Beatty&lt;/a&gt;.

You got a handle on that, good Chuck, thanks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73158">Chuck Beatty</a>.</p>
<p>You got a handle on that, good Chuck, thanks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck Beatty		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73159</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck Beatty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 23:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-73159</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Another final thought of advice, from L. Ron Hubbard, to the world, is Hubbard screaming utterances, which I hope someday gets into the public domain....


&quot;....there are a lot more body thetans than anyone realizes.....[ah, scream, uh, scream, aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!  ...]-  Hubard screaming.


It would explain all, to have that Hubbard screaming clip, released, at some Scientology event, just like they replay Ron&#039;s Journal 67 clips over and over.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another final thought of advice, from L. Ron Hubbard, to the world, is Hubbard screaming utterances, which I hope someday gets into the public domain&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;.there are a lot more body thetans than anyone realizes&#8230;..[ah, scream, uh, scream, aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!  &#8230;]-  Hubard screaming.</p>
<p>It would explain all, to have that Hubbard screaming clip, released, at some Scientology event, just like they replay Ron&#8217;s Journal 67 clips over and over.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck Beatty		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73158</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck Beatty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 23:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-73158</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[LANCE:  &quot;... of all the Clears I met (at least twenty but probably many more than that), none of them openly claimed, much less demonstrated, these kinds of abilities. As you move into the fold, you learn not to question people very eagerly about their abilities or status. ...&quot;


Hubbard&#039;s reasoning was that we all suffer from soul trauma not only from our individual past lives soul trauma experiences, which we rid ourselves of that influence when we use Hubbard&#039;s &quot;Clearing&quot; pseudo-crank therapy; but the next larger whole swath of mental trauma to deal with, is the leakage of mental trauma, coming from the minds of the tens of thousands of souls and soul-clusters who are affixed to all of us.


So the Hubbard theoretical explanation for WHY the lower level &quot;Clear&quot; Scientologists are still acting odd and not entirely &quot;Clear&quot; like the perfect first Book &quot;Clear&quot; advertisements, is because of all the other &quot;case&quot; we have smothering us, leaking onto us, from our hitch-hiking souls and soul clusters that leak their mental garbage onto us.


Which is why, it is important to understand Hubbard&#039;s theoretical stuff, and get it really down.


Then, all of the Hubbard other craziness, dovetails!


He, Hubbard, felt he could NOT tell the lower level case people, and not even tell people going Clear, that they still had MORE case to deal with, because it would confuse and mess up all his beginner crank therapy techniques, which he&#039;s neatly summarized, and laid out, to get people up to Clear.


What it actually opens up, is a whole other more detailed criticism of Hubbard&#039;s actual &quot;Bridge to Total Freedom&quot; crank therapy and his OT 3 exorcism therapy, and the flaws in his actual addressing what he claims is the mental debilitating stuff that keeps each of us human beings in the mental degraded states we are in!


The reason Clears are fragile, is they are now more powerful, after going Clear, at least, and a Clear person&#039;s thoughts will trigger one&#039;s surplus soul&#039;s or soul clusters to &quot;wake up&quot; and reverberate some nasty bunch of their trauma back at the Clear person!


This is laid out, by studying the theoretical writings, particularly the OT 3 Course materials, and the Class 8 Course materials, and reading the all important &quot;NOTs Indoctrination&quot; bulletin, where Hubbard gives tidbits of the theoretical background, why we as humans are so deeply burdened with these past lives traumas, both our own personal past life traumas, but all the trauma and implanted nasty degraded debilitating trauma coming at us mentally, telepathically, from our loads of surplus souls that infest our bodies.


The peeling OFF of all the past lives traumas, and peeling off the surplus souls (who when they are exorcised using Hubbard&#039;s exorcism procedures) those souls take their mental garbage off of us too!


Hubbard just laid into his movement, so many layers of problems, by keeping the full lineup of theory of what he honestly believes are all of our &quot;case&quot; problems, from us, so that the members trip over all the inconsistencies.


Only when members get out, and read the above materials (OT 3 Course, CLass 8 bulletins that go into the problems that the surplus souls can cause, NOTs Indoctrination bulletin which is the best Hubbard summary of all of his writings) and the ex members really put it all together, with all of Hubbard&#039;s years of other writings on the Bridge steps, only then can one &quot;get&quot; why Hubbard made such a mess of it all, and why he was so inconsistent, and why he had to do all the hyping.


Hubbard was himself doing patchup finding more of the surplus souls that infested even him, as late as December 1985, a month before he died.


He absolutely still believed the surplus souls, and all their mental case stuff they leaked into our minds, was way much more important to finally making humans truly spiritually cleaned up and understanding of themselves as the pure soul that each of us are individually, MINUS all the past lives mental gunk we have still leaking into our pure soul minds.


Aw, such a huge huge fantasy waste of people&#039;s time!


Arthur C. Clarke&#039;s two sentence dismissal of Hubbard is the bottom line.


Hubbard went crazy and made a lot of other people go crazy, is roughly what Clarke said.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LANCE:  &#8220;&#8230; of all the Clears I met (at least twenty but probably many more than that), none of them openly claimed, much less demonstrated, these kinds of abilities. As you move into the fold, you learn not to question people very eagerly about their abilities or status. &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Hubbard&#8217;s reasoning was that we all suffer from soul trauma not only from our individual past lives soul trauma experiences, which we rid ourselves of that influence when we use Hubbard&#8217;s &#8220;Clearing&#8221; pseudo-crank therapy; but the next larger whole swath of mental trauma to deal with, is the leakage of mental trauma, coming from the minds of the tens of thousands of souls and soul-clusters who are affixed to all of us.</p>
<p>So the Hubbard theoretical explanation for WHY the lower level &#8220;Clear&#8221; Scientologists are still acting odd and not entirely &#8220;Clear&#8221; like the perfect first Book &#8220;Clear&#8221; advertisements, is because of all the other &#8220;case&#8221; we have smothering us, leaking onto us, from our hitch-hiking souls and soul clusters that leak their mental garbage onto us.</p>
<p>Which is why, it is important to understand Hubbard&#8217;s theoretical stuff, and get it really down.</p>
<p>Then, all of the Hubbard other craziness, dovetails!</p>
<p>He, Hubbard, felt he could NOT tell the lower level case people, and not even tell people going Clear, that they still had MORE case to deal with, because it would confuse and mess up all his beginner crank therapy techniques, which he&#8217;s neatly summarized, and laid out, to get people up to Clear.</p>
<p>What it actually opens up, is a whole other more detailed criticism of Hubbard&#8217;s actual &#8220;Bridge to Total Freedom&#8221; crank therapy and his OT 3 exorcism therapy, and the flaws in his actual addressing what he claims is the mental debilitating stuff that keeps each of us human beings in the mental degraded states we are in!</p>
<p>The reason Clears are fragile, is they are now more powerful, after going Clear, at least, and a Clear person&#8217;s thoughts will trigger one&#8217;s surplus soul&#8217;s or soul clusters to &#8220;wake up&#8221; and reverberate some nasty bunch of their trauma back at the Clear person!</p>
<p>This is laid out, by studying the theoretical writings, particularly the OT 3 Course materials, and the Class 8 Course materials, and reading the all important &#8220;NOTs Indoctrination&#8221; bulletin, where Hubbard gives tidbits of the theoretical background, why we as humans are so deeply burdened with these past lives traumas, both our own personal past life traumas, but all the trauma and implanted nasty degraded debilitating trauma coming at us mentally, telepathically, from our loads of surplus souls that infest our bodies.</p>
<p>The peeling OFF of all the past lives traumas, and peeling off the surplus souls (who when they are exorcised using Hubbard&#8217;s exorcism procedures) those souls take their mental garbage off of us too!</p>
<p>Hubbard just laid into his movement, so many layers of problems, by keeping the full lineup of theory of what he honestly believes are all of our &#8220;case&#8221; problems, from us, so that the members trip over all the inconsistencies.</p>
<p>Only when members get out, and read the above materials (OT 3 Course, CLass 8 bulletins that go into the problems that the surplus souls can cause, NOTs Indoctrination bulletin which is the best Hubbard summary of all of his writings) and the ex members really put it all together, with all of Hubbard&#8217;s years of other writings on the Bridge steps, only then can one &#8220;get&#8221; why Hubbard made such a mess of it all, and why he was so inconsistent, and why he had to do all the hyping.</p>
<p>Hubbard was himself doing patchup finding more of the surplus souls that infested even him, as late as December 1985, a month before he died.</p>
<p>He absolutely still believed the surplus souls, and all their mental case stuff they leaked into our minds, was way much more important to finally making humans truly spiritually cleaned up and understanding of themselves as the pure soul that each of us are individually, MINUS all the past lives mental gunk we have still leaking into our pure soul minds.</p>
<p>Aw, such a huge huge fantasy waste of people&#8217;s time!</p>
<p>Arthur C. Clarke&#8217;s two sentence dismissal of Hubbard is the bottom line.</p>
<p>Hubbard went crazy and made a lot of other people go crazy, is roughly what Clarke said.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lliira		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73157</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lliira]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 20:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tonyortega.org/?p=2468#comment-73157</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73092&quot;&gt;Derek Bloch&lt;/a&gt;.

Don&#039;t apologize for bringing up sex! The more we talk about it honestly, the less messed-up we all get about it as a society. And in this context, it&#039;s necessary to shine a light on how... &quot;aberrated&quot; Hubbard himself was, trying to keep everyone in closets. Or ships&#039; lockers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2013/01/11/blogging-dianetics-part-2-the-state-of-clear/comment-page-1/#comment-73092">Derek Bloch</a>.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t apologize for bringing up sex! The more we talk about it honestly, the less messed-up we all get about it as a society. And in this context, it&#8217;s necessary to shine a light on how&#8230; &#8220;aberrated&#8221; Hubbard himself was, trying to keep everyone in closets. Or ships&#8217; lockers.</p>
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