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	Comments on: Scientology&#8217;s Meltdown: A Story Told in Pictures	</title>
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	<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/</link>
	<description>TONY ORTEGA on SCIENTOLOGY</description>
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		<title>
		By: Kastor Diggo		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-1429576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kastor Diggo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2016 02:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-1429576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thought-provoking commentary , BTW , if anyone was looking for a a form , my wife filled out and esigned a blank document here &lt;code&gt;http://goo.gl/Qpc7Lb&lt;/code&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought-provoking commentary , BTW , if anyone was looking for a a form , my wife filled out and esigned a blank document here <code>http://goo.gl/Qpc7Lb</code>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: trustmeonthisone		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49924</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trustmeonthisone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 02:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49903&quot;&gt;sugarplumfairy32&lt;/a&gt;.

Yeah, I feel lucky not to have been suckered! I caught on early, from moving into an apartment where a $cilon used to live. Oh, the BS they sent! We could tell right away that it was some sort of scam. Then, later, I met a few folks who had the misfortune of getting involved (some in an effort to &quot;pray the gay away&quot;) and were the worse off for it. That was when I first started really wanting to expose the cult for the scam that it is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49903">sugarplumfairy32</a>.</p>
<p>Yeah, I feel lucky not to have been suckered! I caught on early, from moving into an apartment where a $cilon used to live. Oh, the BS they sent! We could tell right away that it was some sort of scam. Then, later, I met a few folks who had the misfortune of getting involved (some in an effort to &#8220;pray the gay away&#8221;) and were the worse off for it. That was when I first started really wanting to expose the cult for the scam that it is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: trustmeonthisone		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49923</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trustmeonthisone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49889&quot;&gt;Sid&lt;/a&gt;.

I know. They are so cute together! But it is clearly going to become an issue at some point, whether she joins or escapes. All goes to show you why you should never marry someone you&#039;ve been with for less than a year! Come on, girls! Know yer man!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49889">Sid</a>.</p>
<p>I know. They are so cute together! But it is clearly going to become an issue at some point, whether she joins or escapes. All goes to show you why you should never marry someone you&#8217;ve been with for less than a year! Come on, girls! Know yer man!</p>
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		<title>
		By: trustmeonthisone		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49922</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trustmeonthisone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-49922</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49859&quot;&gt;Dodman (@aslan2012)&lt;/a&gt;.

This is an interesting question, and really not yet resolved. It doesn&#039;t LOOK like a $ci program, but there are a number of dodgy aspects to it, including the aversion to psychiatry and medications. Perhaps yoga is the new sauna.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49859">Dodman (@aslan2012)</a>.</p>
<p>This is an interesting question, and really not yet resolved. It doesn&#8217;t LOOK like a $ci program, but there are a number of dodgy aspects to it, including the aversion to psychiatry and medications. Perhaps yoga is the new sauna.</p>
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		<title>
		By: aussiecase		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49921</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aussiecase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 05:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-49921</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49914&quot;&gt;MirnaMinkoff&lt;/a&gt;.

According the the Martin Ottomann affidavit which cites IRS records, the Clearwater operation was the largest contributor. In my experience Scientology sucks money out of smaller operations which usually operate on a getting by basis, and when they have extra money it is immediately sent to management. 

When I was involved in the early 1990, a number of smaller operations are often near the brink of collapse, but they would often also send money to management on good weeks, and some how make a go of it the rest of the time.

I suspect Scientology is highly profitable and so even with a big drop in income it would likely still be a money maker. I wonder what John P&#039;s thoughts on this? 

How profitable is this scam? 
How big a hit to their income will it take to really make them not profitable. 

I agree with what John P wrote earlier. Calling the date of the collapse is a fools game. I reworded it a bit perhaps.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49914">MirnaMinkoff</a>.</p>
<p>According the the Martin Ottomann affidavit which cites IRS records, the Clearwater operation was the largest contributor. In my experience Scientology sucks money out of smaller operations which usually operate on a getting by basis, and when they have extra money it is immediately sent to management. </p>
<p>When I was involved in the early 1990, a number of smaller operations are often near the brink of collapse, but they would often also send money to management on good weeks, and some how make a go of it the rest of the time.</p>
<p>I suspect Scientology is highly profitable and so even with a big drop in income it would likely still be a money maker. I wonder what John P&#8217;s thoughts on this? </p>
<p>How profitable is this scam?<br />
How big a hit to their income will it take to really make them not profitable. </p>
<p>I agree with what John P wrote earlier. Calling the date of the collapse is a fools game. I reworded it a bit perhaps.</p>
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		<title>
		By: aussiecase		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49920</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aussiecase]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 05:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-49920</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49913&quot;&gt;Poison Ivy&lt;/a&gt;.

It appears Hy Levy has passed away form cancer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49913">Poison Ivy</a>.</p>
<p>It appears Hy Levy has passed away form cancer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Exso		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49919</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Exso]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 22:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-49919</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49854&quot;&gt;Chuck Beatty&lt;/a&gt;.

Actually the best number to judge Scientology by are New Names to Central Files, this is an indicator of people taking their first step on the bridge. Aola squirreled it years ago to book buyers and div six starts. The actual lrh stat reflected real production of the orgs and missions in real bridge starts.  The next stat to look at is fsm commissions paid by upper orgs to lower orgs. This indicates the production up the bridge. These fsm commissions are paid by advanced orgs to reward lower orgs for getting people to clear and ready for the ot levels then sending them up the bridge. When it was my stat at aola it was already false reported and squirrelly despite my efforts to get it right. That&#039;s because all the seniors cared about was the stupid birthday game and not pissing int management off.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49854">Chuck Beatty</a>.</p>
<p>Actually the best number to judge Scientology by are New Names to Central Files, this is an indicator of people taking their first step on the bridge. Aola squirreled it years ago to book buyers and div six starts. The actual lrh stat reflected real production of the orgs and missions in real bridge starts.  The next stat to look at is fsm commissions paid by upper orgs to lower orgs. This indicates the production up the bridge. These fsm commissions are paid by advanced orgs to reward lower orgs for getting people to clear and ready for the ot levels then sending them up the bridge. When it was my stat at aola it was already false reported and squirrelly despite my efforts to get it right. That&#8217;s because all the seniors cared about was the stupid birthday game and not pissing int management off.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Norm		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49918</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Norm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 17:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-49918</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49915&quot;&gt;Poison Ivy&lt;/a&gt;.

You do the math.

Hubbard used good people, but Hubbard also liked thugs because he was a thug himself. Miscavige delivered the money to Hubbard and kept Hubbard safe from subpoena servers. Hubbard got his money and was happy.

Wake up and smell the coffee.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49915">Poison Ivy</a>.</p>
<p>You do the math.</p>
<p>Hubbard used good people, but Hubbard also liked thugs because he was a thug himself. Miscavige delivered the money to Hubbard and kept Hubbard safe from subpoena servers. Hubbard got his money and was happy.</p>
<p>Wake up and smell the coffee.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Phil		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49917</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 15:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-49917</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It looks like Hubbard is wearing a clear bracelet in the pic with the e-meters.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like Hubbard is wearing a clear bracelet in the pic with the e-meters.</p>
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		<title>
		By: richeieu jr		</title>
		<link>https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49916</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richeieu jr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 13:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ortegaunderground.wordpress.com/?p=140#comment-49916</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49833&quot;&gt;Bob G&lt;/a&gt;.

Not sure I see the difference, really: Thetans, demons, fairies, hobgoblins.. Exorcism is exorcism...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tonyortega.org/2012/10/03/scientologys-meltdown-how-we-got-here/comment-page-1/#comment-49833">Bob G</a>.</p>
<p>Not sure I see the difference, really: Thetans, demons, fairies, hobgoblins.. Exorcism is exorcism&#8230;</p>
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