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Scientology caught in a lie to federal court — but will the judge care?

[Luis Garcia and Aaron Smith-Levin]

The latest twist in the Luis and Rocio Garcia federal fraud case against the Church of Scientology is a new court motion asking for a deposition to take place after the Garcias say they caught the church lying to the court and to Judge James Whittemore.

If you’ve kept up on the 2013 lawsuit with us, you know that Judge Whittemore ordered the Garcias to honor the contracts they had signed while members of the church and take their dispute over several hundred thousand dollars in donations to Scientology’s internal “arbitration.” The Garcias would rather have their allegations hashed out in court, but Whittemore said he couldn’t dispute Scientology contracts without violating Scientology’s First Amendment rights of religious expression.

But the problem with forcing the Garcias to submit to Scientology’s internal arbitration is that the church has set up kafkaesque rules about it. For one thing, the Garcias need to select an arbitrator who is a Scientologist “in good standing” — but the church is exceedingly opaque about just who is in good standing or not. Every time the Garcias have selected someone, the church’s “International Justice Chief,” Mike Ellis, says that they’re not in good standing.

One of those they chose recently was a Scientologist named Brandon Orlando. When the Garcias submitted his name, this is what the church said to the Garcias:

You have submitted the name of Brandon Orlando. According to the Church records, he last took any Church service in 2013, and was subsequently officially recorded as not in good standing as he chose to remain affiliated with declared Suppressive Persons. Mr. Orlando has continued to ally himself with individuals who are hostile to the Church. This is a matter of public record, as it was for almost all of the other individuals whom you previously suggested as potential arbitrators.

And to the court…

Orlando last participated in auditing no later than 2007, and has not participated in other Scientology services since 2009. He was dead filed in 2014. In June, 2016, he told a Church staff member that he has no interest in attending Church services or advancing his studies of Scientology, thus disavowing the religion. Based on these facts, in August, 2016, the IJC informed plaintiffs that Orlando was not in good standing.

If Orlando was “dead filed” in 2014, then the church would have stopped all communication with him.

But that just isn’t true, the Garcias contend. And they have an affidavit from Aaron Smith-Levin that they’re hoping will convince Judge Whittemore that he’s been lied to.

You remember Aaron. He made a huge impression in an episode of A&E’s Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath talking about his twin brother Collin. About how the two of them had been brought up in Scientology and joined its Sea Org.

And one person Aaron met in the Sea Org was Brandon Orlando. They were still friends last year, and that’s why Smith-Levin says in an affidavit for the Garcias that much of what Scientology is saying about Orlando doesn’t comport with what he knows.

At the same time that the church says Orlando was supposedly “not in good standing” and had been “dead filed,” Smith-Levin says Orlando was actually getting called daily by the Tampa Org, urging him to come down and take courses. And he was called down for a meeting with an ethics officer which Orlando told him about, Smith-Levin says.

In this interview the MAA [ethics officer]…mentioned that Luis Garcia had submitted Brandon’s name as a possible arbitrator. The MAA wanted to know why Luis Garcia had submitted Brandon’s name. Brandon said he had no idea what that was all about. Brandon was interrogated at some length to determine if he had been in touch with Luis Garcia. He had not….Over the next many weeks Brandon was called in several more times to be interrogated about his connection with me. Brandon said that he didn’t want to disconnect from me, but that if they were giving him no choice, if it was either he disconnect from me or he would be declared a Suppressive Person then he would disconnect from me.

Then, in January, Orlando told Smith-Levin that the church asked him to sign an affidavit saying that he had known that he was not in good standing with the church. But Orlando refused to sign it, Smith-Levin says, because it wasn’t true.

In other words, the church had lied to the Garcias and to the court, saying that Orlando had been not in good standing, when actually he had been. (Orlando did agree to sign a statement that he was ineligible for taking courses at the Flag Land Base, which is not the same thing.) And Smith-Levin’s testimony suggests that Scientology was trying to cover its tracks, having Orlando sign an affidavit to make the false claim that he was not in good standing in order to back up what the church had told the court.

“Part of the problem is that the church has lied to the court about what it means to be not in good standing. In truth, L. Ron Hubbard never really defined what that is — it’s only that you can be in good standing or you can be declared a suppressive person. There’s no middle ground. And Brandon was never declared,” Smith-Levin says.

So the Garcias are asking to be allowed to depose Orlando to see if his testimony will match Smith-Levin’s and further prove that Scientology is playing word games in order to keep the Garcias from selecting an arbitrator of their choice.

What the Garcias really want, which has been made clear in previous filings, is for Judge Whittemore to agree that Scientology’s “internal arbitration” is a sham, and to re-activate the lawsuit.

But even with evidence suggesting that the court is being lied to, is it enough to convince Whittemore to take the case back and give up on Scientology’s arbitration scheme? So far, he’s shown no sign of doing that.

So here’s the document for you to see for yourself, with Smith-Levin’s affidavit attached.

Garcia v. Scientology: Motion to take Deposition by Tony Ortega on Scribd

 
——————–

 
HowdyCon 2017: Denver, June 23-25. Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

Scientology disconnection, a reminder

Bernie Headley has not seen his daughter Stephanie in 4,682 days.
Quailynn McDaniel has not seen her brother Sean in 1,785 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 2,279 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 1,319 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy in 1,031 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 498 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 4,616 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 1,786 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 2,106 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 2,081 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 437 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin in 4,739 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 846 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis for 1,248 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 1,121 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 702 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike in 1,207 days.
Mary Jane Sterne has not seen her daughter Samantha in 1,451 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 12,560 days.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on March 6, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Frodis73

    So, I just now found out what Ben Carson said earlier at his first meeting as HUD secretary. How does this man walk and talk?

    • Missionary Kid

      Carson compares slaves to immigrants coming to ‘a land of dreams and opportunity’

      As many as half of those “Immigrants” didn’t make it to America. What a deluded dumbfuck. Trump picks cabinet members for their ability to destroy our government agencies.

  • downtherabbithole

    Time for some deep breathing & a nice glass of wine. I am so there….

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    OT (but it’s Seymour and Packer, so a tenuous link). An interesting news story from Bryan Seymour and 7 News Sydney about James Packer’s current fortunes. Things aren’t looking so good for this billionaire.

    https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney/videos/1396995026991293/

    • Ben Franklin

      I don’t know much about Australian Journalists but Bryan Seymour and Steve Cannane are two of my favorites

    • ze moo

      The Crown Macau is Packers Atlantic City Trump Casino.

    • Kestrel

      I’ll never forget the depth of the pit of despair I found myself in when I got down to my last billion.

      • Frodis73

        snort.

        • Kestrel

          …and that’s what got me down to my last billion. πŸ˜›

      • madame duran

        It’s not so much about losing money that hurts. It’s the loss of ego, bragging rights, pride that such a large fortune creates. James Packer inherited 7 billion from his dad. For him to go down to 1 billion is a significant dent to the lifestyle he was accustomed to. I don’t feel sorry for that insecure, fug-face twit. However, I wouldn’t mind if he took out his frustration on Tommy Davis.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        That was my thought precisely! Poor bugger πŸ˜€

  • Kestrel

    I don’t think the judge can rule that an arbitration WILL be unfair, he/she would have to find that the arbitration WAS unfair.

    • grundoon

      Good luck asking a judge to interpret church policy.

      • Mick Roberts

        Hell, I’m not even sure any ACTUAL Scientologist can confidently “interpret church policy” that seems to change depending upon various circumstances, except maybe Miscavige (since he arbitrarily interprets the rules as he wishes according to his own daily needs, whims, and sick desires……and he answers to no one).

  • Glen

    The $ci trolls/shills have come out in a larger turnout than usual in the Tampa Bay Times article about downtown development in Clearwater.:

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/scientology-plans-control-of-downtown-clearwater-for-retail-makeover/2315501

    Some are enthusiastically up tone:

    “Man this is awesome! Downtown is basically dead except for where these buildings are and man are they beautiful buildings. Also there’s the park that’s sprouted up on the side of the Fort Harrison, I go there all the time, it’s a beautiful park! Can’t wait to see what’s done in Clearwater! It’s going to be amazing!”

    “Great News! I am a Clearwater resident and I really admire what the Church of Scientology has done for this community so far. Looking forward to the new changes and an even better environment for us all.”

    “Scientology is growing! Why? Because they help People.They improve the environment around them! The city needs help . Scientology is there to do it. The city can use the tax dollars. If they can help make the downtown area viable then it would be a good thing. Obviously they will not do it alone but a joint effort by all parties involved would happen. From what I have seen their intentions are always for the greatest good for everyone they work with.”

    And then, of course, there are the attack dogs:

    “Clearly your source of information is that from bigots who have an axe to grind. This is simply illustrated by the fact that you don’t know that the Church of Scientology is the biggest tax payer in downtown Clearwater. Do your research before you comment.”

    “Did you not read the article before commenting? Or did you shoot right to the comment section to voice your bias? You are right about no revitalization downtown, that’s what the Scientology church wants to address with this. If Scientology is “one of the most unethical groups on the planet”, why are you so afraid of security cameras?”

    • ze moo

      “but a joint effort by all parties involved would happen” Yeah, give Davy Miscavage 50 million in ‘urban development’ funds. What could go wrong?

      The clams are trying to control the talk about their plan. I ignore and trash the pro-clam trolls.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Sir Terry Pratchett, patron saint of cynics, believed that the excessive use of exclamation points was a sure sign of madness.

      • sizzle8

        What do you mean??????

      • Kestrel

        OMG !!!!!!!! I couldn’t agree more !!!!!!!!!

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          πŸ˜›

    • ze moo

      “The plan does not require approval from elected officials or voters, but
      is a vision the church has already started implementing with the help
      of consultants and an aggressive acquisition of downtown property.”

      Now the gloves are really off. $cientology is now officially, a real estate scam.

    • downtherabbithole

      “The concept involves recruiting a few major, national retailers to anchor the district and filling the grid with handpicked businesses all at one time, similar to how an outdoor mall is established, said Community Redevelopment Agency Director Seth Taylor and City Manager Bill Horne, who in October were shown renderings of the retail strategy by Miscavige but not given copies.”

      What national retailer would even think to get involved as a “anchor” with Scientology involved and I can imagine who the “handpicked businesses” would be to fill the “grid”.

      • Kestrel

        TexasBroad has a good list of possibilities.

      • Frodis73

        That was my first thought. Nobody that has a pulse on America would want to get in bed with them.

        • downtherabbithole

          Does this “Community Redevelopment Agency” even watch what is happening in the market place? Do they know the number of major retailers who are closing down hundreds of their brick & motar stores.

      • ze moo

        The difference between the sham clams and the real Tampa Bay/Clearwater people is hilarious. F5
        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7862b1ec48db77c63adc5db647a3cf5fd771d33fb9505c7e94cfab0d9b2d6276.png

        Sharkey
        I
        was just driving through Clearwater the other day, saying to myself,
        “You know what this city needs? More homogeneous weirdos to fund a scam
        religion.”

        Finally, someone listened!
        Sharkey
        I
        was just driving through Clearwater the other day, saying to myself,
        “You know what this city needs? More homogeneous weirdos to fund a scam
        religion.”

        Finally, someone listened!

        • Harpoona Frittata

          Sharkey has some wunnerful snark there!

    • Robert Eckert

      Fred Rice sightings in the comments. He used to be regular here.

    • grundoon

      “the Church of Scientology is the biggest tax payer in downtown Clearwater”

      So how much does the City of Clearwater receive in taxes from the Chruch? I suppose not all of the meals and lodging sold by the Fort Harrison are tax exempt.

      After driving out all the other businesses, who’s left to pay taxes?

  • JaxNGold

    Ok, so this is WAY off topic but need some advice from anyone who’s gone through this.

    I was diagnosed with a pretty severe case of tennis elbow about 2 wks ago. The pain is relentless — 24 hrs a day, every damn day. I’ve done what the doc told me to do so far: wear a support brace, ice it as much as possible, don’t use my right arm (which is a real bitch considering I’m right-handed), and take a prescription of 800 mg Ibuprofen (which does nothing to help the pain). I don’t want to ask for opiate painkillers because I struggled with painkiller addiction for years and don’t want to risk “waking the sleeping beast”.

    My new HMO insurance is absolute shit. Today I was told it could take another damn month to get approvals for an X-ray and injections. WTF??

    If any of you have ever gone through this, do you have any other suggestions for relief while I wait for the insurance co to get off their lazy asses and approve the injections?

    • Frodis73

      Yikes. All I can do is sympathize with you…both with the pain and the addiction. I hope somebody here as some good advice. Pot maybe??

      • JaxNGold

        Yeah, I know you and I both dealt with opiate addiction — the worst! If I could smoke herb without getting totally paranoid and wanting to hide under the bed (lol), I totally would.

        • Frodis73

          Lol, that is why I so rarely smoke it myself! I hope Kemist’s suggesting to switch to naproxen works for you. Nothing but opiates do the trick for me when pain is above a certain level.

          • JaxNGold

            Yep, and there’s the rub. Nothing but painkillers will work for me either when pain is chronic and this intense. But I’ll definitely try a few of the other OTC meds that were suggested to me. Opening the painkiller can of worms is a real bad idea for me. With just one script I might be right back to the races…ugh. I don’t trust myself — even after being clean for a few years.

        • Jimmy3

          The paranoia subsides as your tolerance increases. But once they know that’s happening, that’s when they start taking your place under your bed.

          • JaxNGold

            Hilarious πŸ˜†

        • Kim O’Brien

          drink chamomile tea first πŸ™‚

    • kemist

      I would switch from 800 mg ibuprofen to 500 mg naproxen (if you can afford it).

      It’s a better NSAID, might work better for pain relief too (at least it does for me). You can also get it without prescription (Aleve).

      If you have chronic inflammation, what you can try alternating warm and cold baths a couple times a day. Keep in mind that chronic inflammation does not go away overnight. You’ll need at least a couple weeks of regularly taking NSAIDs for it to start going down. The medication’s main purpose is not pain relief per se, but control of inflammation.

      • JaxNGold

        Thanks, I’ll try that!

    • Observer

      I’m not big on the natural remedy thing, but I have a friend who is a hard-headed science nut and who swears by turmeric as a pain reliever. WebMD, with real doctors, also says it can help with joint inflammation and pain.

      http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-662-turmeric.aspx?activeingredientid=662

      • JaxNGold

        At this point, I’ll try anything. Thanks!

    • Noesis

      I played 3-4 hours of tennis almost every day in college for several years until I got tennis elbow so bad I could no longer hold a pencil in my right hand (not kidding.) My Black’s dictionary (this was a long time ago – pre-internet) was too heavy to carry and I had to quit playing altogether for almost six months to let the tenon relax and heal itself.

      I’m unaware of any treatment more effective than non-use of the injured arm, but do recommend Ibuprofen, which was available only by prescription at the time. It may not help with the pain immediately but it should reduce the inflammation which should then eventually cause the pain to moderate.

    • flyonthewall

      it won’t heal your elbow but I’ll be hoping you get better soon or are at least not in pain

    • daisy

      There is a product Robaxacet ( equate makes a cheap version ) It contains 200 mg ibuprophen and 500 mg methocarbamol . You can take it every 4 hrs. It is a combination of pain relief and muscle relaxer .

      • Frodis73

        I do not think we have that otc here…you Canadians are lucky that way.

    • Bobby Tolberto aka TDA

      My great aunt had it from years of housework, and acupuncture helped her out. She, like the rest of my mom’s family, was part-Chinese, and was surprised when it worked.

    • DoveAlexa

      Use topical ibuprofen gel. Ibu does nothing for me if I eat it but gel did. I also have better luck with pill form Acetominophen(sp?)/Tylenol/paracetamol.

  • L. Wrong Hubturd

    Sorry for the OT, but I’m very excited. My friends PBS special begins nationwide broadcast this week and the full album is out on March 10th

    See here for times:

    http://www.fernandovarela.com/pbs-tv-schedule/

    http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwopera/article/Latin-Tenor-Fernando-Varela-to-Release-Debut-Album-Vivere-310-20170227

    Catch it if you can. Look closely in the front row of the first balcony and you might see me.

    • Missionary Kid

      Good to see you here. I’ve been missing you.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        Been missing you guys too. Just enough time lately to read the story and do some upvotes.

        • Rasha

          I may have said something interesting. See if you can find it.

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Your profile is private, so I can’t look easily. What’d I miss?

            • Rasha

              Not much, I reckon. Just random comments. ^_^

        • beauty for ashes

          HI turdface!!!!!!!!! How’s Elro and elco?

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Hi, Beauty! We’re doing well. And you?

            • beauty for ashes

              Ugh, I just finished giving an update upthread. Holding steady. Need a vacation by myself.

      • flyonthewall

        that’s a gay thing to say

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Awww, don’t be jealous. There’s enough L.Wrong to go around.

          • flyonthewall

            idk how I feel about this new pic of your’s. I like the butt plug better, love the butt plug actually. This’ll take some getting use to

            • Frodis73

              I know, I wasn’t sure if it was really him when he posted the other day. We get attached to those pics.

            • L. Wrong Hubturd

              A change was needed. I may switch back one day and surprise you all.

            • Jimmy3

              that’s an MK thing to say

            • It blew.

            • flyonthewall

              why didn’t someone send out the blow team?? This place, man…

        • Missionary Kid

          Is there something wrong with being gay?

          • flyonthewall

            No, wish I was gay.

            • Missionary Kid

              I could be mean and say, “So does Mrs. Fly”, but I’m not. πŸ˜›

            • flyonthewall

              she tells me that all the time but she says she means it in the happy way and I believe her

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Orlando market at 8pm tonight. Puttin’ mah jammies on and gettin’ ready.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Scientology is pulling the wool over everybody’s eyes, including over the judge’s eyes.
    The judge might care, but it will probably make no difference.
    The internal arbitration is a sham. A SHAM.
    Uno dos tres quatro
    Here it comes:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZJiGu6Gz8E

  • RedShoeLady

    Lies, beans and abuse….I really hope I live to see this thing implode.

  • Jimmy3

    Disqus, I know you’re lurking. Let me ask you something. Why do you move comments that have been flagged for removal to the top of the “Newest” sorting? Does it accidentally reset the comment to newest when it receives a new flag? It seems like an easy loophole to get unpopular comments pushed up to the top, and that’s extremely counter-intuitive. The whole point of the flagging system is to hide/remove offensive comments. You seem to have it set up where abuse can make it the first thing people see.

    • Jimmy3

      Yeah, pretend like you’re not there. I can hear you wheezing, Disqus.

      • flyonthewall

        leave him alone and let him die in peace!

      • Are you talking to me or Daisy?

        • Jimmy3

          I was talking to Disqus. But now I’m talking to you. How are you doing tonight, Dodo?

      • Observer

        That’s just me. Asthma is kicking in early this year.

      • beauty for ashes

        disqus huffs. makes so much sense now.

    • TexasBroad

      “You seem to have it set up where abuse can make it the first thing people see.”
      Too bad Scientology doesn’t work that way.

    • Ben Franklin

      Hey, if you put garbage at the doorstep, it is very likely every visitor to the house will see the garbage, and maybe complain to the house owner forcing him or her to get rid of it quickly. If you hide garbage in the closet or in the bedroom, not many people would see the garbage and complain about it, thus, the garbage can stay in the house for a very very long time.

    • Mick Roberts

      Damnit, guess I did something to get flagged yet again. Didn’t even use profanity this time (except “damn” I think). Maybe the links I put in there did it? Trying to figure out what I’m doing because a lot of my stuff tends to get auto-flagged after an hour or so. Sorry for yet another one….

      • Jimmy3

        Not complaining about you, man. Your comment was good. I just dont know why disqus pushes flagged comments to the top all of the sudden. It did the same thing the other day and the time before that. They always seem to break something while trying to fix another.

        • Mick Roberts

          It did seem odd to me too why it was pushed up to the top. Just wish I knew what I was doing wrong. Must be formatting or something (too many links, bullet points, etc.). Or maybe Disqus just thinks that sometimes my posts are just too damn long (which even I can’t argue with that on some of my long-winded posts).

  • grundoon

    When the Garcias offer the name of a proposed arbitrator, is it ok for the Chruch to privately interview that person, call them in for an “ethics” interrogation, and put them on the meter before announcing whether the person is in good standing? Isn’t that like an ex parte communication, or more like jury tampering? Or is it standard procedure that the Garcias agreed to when they signed Scientology’s arbitration contract? Will Judge Whittemore have something to say about this?

    • flyonthewall
    • Noesis

      There is no such thing as ex parte communications in an arbitration process that is controlled by one of the parties to the arbitration’s outcome ( which is the only way to accurately describe the Scientology circumstance.)

      Scientology senior executives are lying about this entire “process” and there is effectively no way to keep them from doing so because the plaintiffs voluntarily gave up their civil law protections by agreeing to a (non-existent) arbitration process that is entirely under the control of the church.

      The statutes that are used to administer 3rd party arbitration processes did not anticipate an entirely mendacious actor that is effectively both the arbitrator and a party to the arbitration.

      IMHO no judge is going to step into this because to do so would effectively require them to overrule internal church policy that the plaintiff’s agreed to be bound under. Unless the Gracia’s can show convincingly that the church defrauded them into signing away their right to sue it seems unlikely that they are going to be able to avoid the arbitration process, regardless of how one sided it may be. Again IMHO.

  • Gus_Cox

    LUIS A. GARCIA SAZ

    That’s such a cool name I had to say it to myself a few times!

    As for the cult: What a bunch of assholes. Always trying to cover up their bad acts in order to save their precious PR, which always results in more bad PR. And their PR is right down there with ebola and projectile vomit. Yet, every time I think it just can’t get worse… it gets worse. That takes a special kind of asshole, nay, a whole damned organization of special assholes.

    What a rotten bunch they are.

    • Taffy Sinclair

      I actually had projectile vomiting as a baby. Turns out my pyloric valve stopped doing whatever it does, so I had to have emergency surgery. I have a scar on my abdomen from the procedure, and people think I must’ve been stabbed in a fight.

      • daisy

        It concerns me that your friends would assume it was a stab wound . What kinda friends are these ? Do you get in a lot of bar fights ?

        • beauty for ashes

          The kind that watch a lot of West Side Story. and wear skinny jeans.
          ETA this is a hipster theater geek joke, not a gay joke, sorry if anyone took it that way, not how I meant it.

          • Taffy Sinclair

            It was funny! Anyone w/o a sense of humor should get one!

            • beauty for ashes

              taffy sometimes my brain checks out while I’m typing, mostly my left brain, especially if I need to eat something. whole lotta derp! my hope is that people find it endearing, so thanks!

            • Taffy Sinclair

              I did!!

        • Taffy Sinclair

          LOL, no! It was a joke, but my scar looks just like a stab wound!

      • Rasha

        I had an issue with my LES, at the top of the stomach, later in life… Ain’t fun. *fist bump*. My “stabbed story” would be me facing off against 3 pixies with pairing knives, so I don’t go there. Just happy I don’t wake up inhaling stomach acid any more.

        • beauty for ashes

          pixies are MAD yo! I wouldn’t put it past em!

          • iampissed

            How are you and yours doing?

            • beauty for ashes

              great minds. I was gonna ask you the same question. Holding steady. Mom was initially having chemo until march, and now that will go on indefinitely, every three weeks for 1/2 hr. not bad at all. So lots to be grateful for. I could use a vacay by myself though, just sayin.

            • daisy

              How is dad behaving ? Are they getting along better ?

            • beauty for ashes

              Dad is behaving, and is resigned that he is not going to win an argument with my Mom an she is going to let him drive. He seems to keep himself busy, which is good. The stroke seems to have killed a lot of the asshole brain cells, but man the *when I was in the Navy* brain cells are overactive!

            • daisy

              LOL No that has nothing to do with the stroke, it just happens after 50 and gets progressively worse .

            • iampissed

              Hey I’m over 50.
              ETA…I know you have and upvote bot, or carpo tunnel syndrome.

            • daisy

              So am I. My Navy stories begin with – When I lived in Winnipeg the weather was so bad…..
              If you are honest you have your own navy story you tell over and over.

            • iampissed

              Dad was in the Navy…I saw a picture with him hanging off the Eiffel Tower top floor
              with some dumb ass hanging onto his belt…or was he the dumb ass.

            • iampissed

              I feel for ya….we still share a magazine subscription here. I’m working thru my fathers estate
              which isn’t fun but needs to be done. I’m getting to the point where I can have a bit of humor
              about it…that may sound strange, but at sometime you need to…doing well here, tell mom someone strange on the internet loves her.

            • beauty for ashes

              I will tell her that, along with the *all your children love you* hug and kiss I give her. Sometimes I have to confess she does find my humor weird but for the most part she gets it, and we laugh. Doing it now if she hasn’t fallen asleep!

            • iampissed

              Your mother should always find your humor weird. If not your not doing it right.

            • beauty for ashes

              She started singing, “Strangers in the Night…..” she laughed!!!!

            • Rasha

              ^^^^^_^

            • iampissed

              Or your mother isn’t.

            • Rasha

              Humor should always be unexpected. -_o

            • beauty for ashes

              I can’t wait till you see the piranha tank we replaced your headboard with!!!!

            • Rasha

              I thought those were Pharaohs!!!!

            • beauty for ashes

              But.. but..piranhas are reviled because they are great hunters you said! Right? Right?

            • Rasha

              Efficient hunters. πŸ˜‰

            • beauty for ashes

              Oh.. well ha….the instructions say…. the instructions….. what do the instructions say? The instructions say that if not fed the piranhas will cannibalize each other!!!!! Self cleaning! Right? No? okay… I guess we have to … take it back tomorrow! Oh… no… put it in the garage? get it the hell out of here? Yeeeees. OK!

            • Rasha

              It’s fine! When the piranhas’ Pharaoh parries a phoney phallic phoneme, phrasing pithy photographic psychic…. umm… phlegm…..

              I give up. Yeah, let’s take it back.

            • Rasha

              Very hugs. Going through similar. Echo Iampissed…

            • iampissed

              Thanks Rasha…see OSA this is what only half family dose.
              ETA: Imagine what your family…or an extended one would do for you.

            • iampissed

              I think they call it the cycle of life.

            • Rasha

              Yes. I typed a whole lot more, but deleted it. Just yes will do.

            • daisy

              I am sorry to hear that Rasha .

            • Rasha

              Thank you, Daisy. It is all good, and we are thankful for our time together. ^_^ I have to say, we in this little circle expect laughter at every event, including what some call “funerals”. It’s not always easy, but we do end up smiling.

            • daisy

              (((( hugs , prayers and jokes sent )))

            • iampissed

              If laughter leaves, we are doomed. I think it’s one of the things Scientology just can’t get.

            • beauty for ashes

              I am so sorry for whatever you are going through. I will support you if you do or do not want to talk about it, or only in code or with poop emojis. Sending my imaginary polar bear to come cuddle with you and lots of light and love!!!!!!
              Smoosh you, seriously smoosh you, till all the tears are gone. <3 <3 <3

            • Rasha

              So smoosh, Beauty!!! It is a cancer situation, and we are all about making every moment meaningful. And after the tears we will laugh.

              Funny, my family. I’ve been to funerals of other families that were stone silent and sniffles, but ours, after the crying, turned into some of the richest laughter… When my Dad passed away suddenly two years ago, we were in tears at his funeral, laughing about how, as he sat there in his favorite chair, the Grim Reaper appeared, and Dad just rolled his eyes and said, “NOW?? Are you shitting me? Fine!“, and was just all put-out about it – that’s who he was.

            • beauty for ashes

              I know that feeling. I hope this doesn’t make you feel worse but it’s just so intense because there is no escaping it. I swear at times like this I felt peoples prayers just holding me lightly together. I don’t know how I didn’t implode. So I’m gonna pray for you.
              I am here to listen. <3
              BTW~ Fuck Cancer!!!!!!!!!!!

            • daisy

              Fuck cancer !!!!

            • Rasha

              …years ago, I spent much time talking to my sister in her last days, her unable to respond as her cancer took her. It really tore me up, wondering if she heard me or not, but what was important was that I talked to her. I’m glad I had those endless hours. That was me and her. It never occurred to me to say I was sad or sorry, it was all about the things we had shared and laughed about.

              Now, it’s an older relative, and he’s still aware and with us, but it’s still hard. We let him know that he’s done a good job.

            • Rasha

              …and yeah. Fuck cancer.

            • beauty for ashes

              I remember you talking about your sister. I lost a friend to brain cancer, and his long drawn out battle sucked. (much deleted) too many tears. I am out of tissues. Dammit. I cry so much!

          • Rasha

            Sprites, sure. I’d have a Sprite’s back any day… I wasn’t ’til I found my doorstep darkened by a Pixie that I knew…. okay, I’ll say it – Fear.

            Maybe it was that look. I don’t know. The glint of steel, deftly sheathed before I could ask…. Was it the eyes? Something in the air… I’d faced killers before… Assassins… Raptors…

            ..but never the Pixie. And now there were three…..

            WOAH! Sorry! Haha! what were we talking about? Here! have some pepperoni bread! Haha…..ha……

            ….ha……

        • iampissed

          If it were three pixies…we wouldn’t be talkin. Just saying.

          • Rasha

            …still sleep with one eye open…..

            • iampissed

              You wouldn’t have a scar…you would be beef tare tare.

            • Rasha

              IKR???

        • Taffy Sinclair

          I hear ya! I was a newborn, so I remember nothing of my ordeal. But relief is always wonderful…

          • Rasha

            Omagarsh! “Yeah, I bested those Pixies and I couldn’t even WALK!!!”

            …you rock. -_O

  • Never_in

    JaxNGold I would add to the turmeric suggestion a FB page I just found yesterday that has everything turmeric, especially it’s healing applications-‘ turmeric user group uk’

    • PerpetualOutflow

      I am having some joint pain and was considering trying tumeric. Have you run across any dosage instructions for how much is needed?

      • beauty for ashes

        Don’t just eat a teaspoon.

      • Liberated

        Go to “People’s Pharmacy ” joe and teresa graedon”

        While you’re there, could ya tell them to tell big pharma they’re late w/my check.

        • PerpetualOutflow

          U betcha, thks.

  • Nation of Islam leader Minister Louis Farrakhan has posted a short, to the point excerpt of the video in which he states that he can prove he did not receive a penny from Dianetics or Scientology, he is not a Scientologist, but he respects L. Ron Hubbard. Interestingly, this clip cuts off before he states the Nation of Islam will stand by Scientology as Leah Remini ‘goes in hard.’

    https://www.facebook.com/OfficialMinisterFarrakhan/videos/1251396274967642/

    /

    • That might be sort-of true, in a way, depending on how their deal works. He might collect the money, take his FSM share, and then pass the rest along to CoS.

      Then they’d be getting money from him.

      • beauty for ashes

        So he is still getting money too? Never mind, I don’t believe for a second he isn’t.

  • TexasBroad

    “Are they going to follow through with what they say is in this opportunity? I can only go on what they say,” (Zachary Thorne – VP of govt affairs for the Clearwater Reg Chamber of Commerce) said. “In some point in the future we will know if they were truthful.”
    I can only go on what they say??!!
    SMH
    Poor Clearwater.

    • Quick empathy

      I sent an email Doreen Caudell, city council member in Clearwater, letting her know that I admired her for refusing to meet with Miscavige 1 on 1 like all of the other council members. She stated in the newspaper article that they should have Miscavige address the entire council during the regular meeting. Now there is a person who cares about the Sunshine law and the citizens of Clearwater.

      • TexasBroad

        I hope she is well-informed as well.
        I don’t think I welcomed you when you arrived, QE – so welcome!

        • Quick empathy

          Great to be here!

      • Juicer77

        Thanks. Great job.

    • beauty for ashes

      Zachary Thorne sounds like a night time soap opera/ romance novel sort of name.

      • Liberated

        Or a Bronte novel.

    • I’m sure that Major Retailersβ„’ are simply falling all over themselves to get in bed with the PR nightmare known as Scientology. This is a delusional fever dream of Mindscavenge’s.

      • Juicer77

        ^^^ Nailed it.

  • Observer
    • daisy

      That was so funny.

  • A message to Scientologists in the Deadpool 2 teaser? (On the phone booth, backwards.)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6d1988d9efe9e267ab5785823e7073e29a5008801f14fced0cf1ff3d0cba2420.jpg

  • Quick empathy
    • Rasha

      shhhhhhhhh.

      …nice Zeppelin.

      • beauty for ashes

        BLIMP! dammit, I still miss Miss Tia πŸ™

        • Rasha

          -_- …yeh.

        • You were correct! It was most likely a vintage toy of one of the big dirigibles of the 1930s, most of which were made by Zeppelin in Friedrichshaffen, or in Akron by Goodyear-Zeppelin. This moment of lighter than air trivia brought to you by caffeine.

          • Taffy Sinclair

            Awww,, the humanity!!

            • Or in the Everglades, the huge manatee.

          • Missionary Kid

            Goodyear airships are blimps. The Zepplins had a keel and had an internal.framework. That is a Zepplin type of airship. You’ll notice the segmented sides of the airship is characteristic of a Zepplin. Blimps are rounded.

            • That’s what I was saying, but I misunderstood the post I replied to. I’ve been a dirigible fanatic since I was a small boy. Hugo Eckener is on my short list of people I call hero.

            • Missionary Kid

              Hugo was, indeed, a principled man, especially in the age of Hitler. To be blacklisted by the Nazis must have been rough, but it is a badge of honor.

            • What an amazing life story he had, though! If you haven’t read Dr. Eckener’s Dream Machine, I highly recommend it. It’s a wonderful biography and telling of the first round the world voyage on the LZ-128.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thank you for the recommendation. Early aviators saw places from the air that were relatively unchanged and not overpopulated to the extent they are today.

              Flying over the earth at only a few hundred or thousand feet gives you a much different perspective. In a Zeppelin, you traveled at about the speed of a slower light plane, but you could travel thousands of miles without landing.

              Anne Morrow Lindbergh’s book North to The Orient describes places that she and Charles flew. They were some of the first to fly across from the U.S., across Alaska, Siberia, to China and Japan. He was able to aid the Chinese government in assessing the size of a tremendous flood, because they had no way of determining its size because communications were so poor.

              I believe that Charles became an advocate for environmental causes because he had seen much of the world in a much more unspoiled state.

            • It’s always stuck me that the Hindenburg disaster occurred just before Helium became commercially available.

              If that event had been delayed, just a little, and flammable hydrogen had been replaced by inert helium, airship travel might have continued until the helium ran out.

              There could have been a golden age of the airship – and the development of aviation would have been held back for a decade or two.

              Chance and contingency plays more of a role in history than is generally appreciated.

          • beauty for ashes

            You should be on antiques roadshow , But I challenge you to say what you wrote quickly and enunciated. Thank you caffeine!

        • Missionary Kid

          It’s not a blimp. It has a rigid frame. It is a Zepplin type. “A blimp, or non-rigid airship, is an airship (dirigible) without an internal structural framework or a keel. Unlike semi-rigid and rigid airships (e.g. Zeppelins)”

      • Taffy Sinclair

        But where’s Ralphie’s pink bunny costume??

        …nice bunny costume.

  • daisy

    This administration is almost as bizarre as scientology . Ben Carson called the slaves immigrants . How is this guy a Dr. I wouldn*t go to him to treat my toe nail fungus .

    • Taffy Sinclair

      The Nat’l Enquirer called him “Dr. Death” from bungled brain surgery…

      He is sooo not KSW

    • Missionary Kid

      He’s a 7th Day Adventist. They have a heavy emphasis on medical training, but they reject a lot of science.

      I believe that he learned how to do surgery, but neglected anything else, except to pass courses. His knowledge of history is weak, and, like Trump, he makes up shit because of his limited perception of the outside world and assumptions based on those perceptions.

      He obviously hasn’t been to Egypt. He thought that the pyramids were for storage of grain? Bullshit.

      • Liberated

        How did you know this stuff, did you tapp my phone?

        • Missionary Kid

          I knew a lot of that from being raised a fundy Christian and reading up on Carson in the past, but I checked Wikipedia to fill in stuff that I was unsure of.

          No. I didn’t “tapp” your phone. That’s for Trump to do. πŸ˜›

          When I was growing up, the fundamentalist Christians denied evolution, but it wasn’t a cornerstone of their beliefs. I was also around some medical missionaries, so I kind of knew how important being a doctor was.

          • Liberated

            I know I was joking, I just wanted to misspell tapp.
            Actually Carson said Joseph ( J C’s ) dad…used the pyramids to store grain, I think he might have said corn, but wait …was there corn in ancient egypt?
            The guy is pretty scary!

            • Missionary Kid

              Yeah, I was kidding you back about Tapp. Our illustrious Conspirator in Chief misspelled it, and you copied it.

              The British term for cereal grain is corn. What we call corn here in the U.S. is generally known as maize and comes from the new world (probably Mexico). I doubt that Joseph ever had anything to do with the pyramids, but just as people who believe that they are reincarnations from princes or rulers, I’m sure that Carson came up with the anachronism of the pyramids being used for grain storage, when the area inside is relatively small, and they were thousands of years old by the time Joseph was around.

              If anyone would have been doing something in the pyramids, it would have been Egyptians, not some interlopers from Israel.

            • ExCult.Jan

              You mean Joseph Christ?

            • chukicita

              Corn is a word that in English was used to mean grain of any kind, even before maize was transported from Americas.

            • Liberated

              I did not know that. Thks.

            • chukicita

              I’m a history dork. Lucky you. πŸ˜€

    • Mockingbird

      He’s got a PHD in Uncle Tom. He is the worst.

    • Juicer77

      Not to defend Dr. Carson or his current beliefs, but for many years he was a highly respected neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. Just trying to provide some background on his history.
      (ETA: pediatric neurosurgeon)

      Johns Hopkins bio: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/stlm/carson.html

      According to this article, his ratio of malpractice suits is “about average” for a physician in his field. Article about malpractice suits: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/04/ben-carson-malpractice-claims-doctor-for-president

      • daisy

        I believe you , a neurosurgeon is highly trained . I wish he had stayed in medicine and used his talents there where he is needed. I cannot imagine that there are too many pediatric surgeons. He is wasted being part of the shit show that is the WH these days. It is hurting his highly respectable reputation.

        • Juicer77

          Absolutely. I believe he retired from medicine but I wish he hadn’t. I was so excited when I first heard he was running for office but then he derailed in a huge way. Sigh…

  • TexasBroad

    Goodnight Bunker. Good wishes to all…
    Off to listen to Carrie and Ross talk about end times.
    Sweet dreams.
    http://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2017/3/5/ross-and-carrie-await-the-end-times-part-2-saturday-edition

    • beauty for ashes

      The end times were in the nineties, Gorbachev had the sign of the devil on his forehead. (so someone told me)

      • The end times are always here, according to somebody (whose organisation usually needs a donation they won’t have time to spend).

  • denise

    What organization can call itself ANY type of church with all of these long term nasty lawsuits coming up one after the other…it has to catch up with them sooner or later….time is running out.

    • Missionary Kid

      When you’ve got a billion dollars, with more coming in for their “defense” fund, they can do a hell of a lot of litigating.

      • John Prince

        That’s the actual problem isn’t it ? co$ is ALLOWED to make a Mockery of Justice and stonewall ANY Case in ANY Court because their “war-chest” is deep enough! That coupled with the fact that nobody is FORCED to become a scibot. .You sign away your rights FREELY and WILLINGLY as you sign up to be a clam. captain pissypants is showing the World he IS immune to any Government Intervention because he HAS enough Money to throw around and as long as enough cash lands in the right pockets at the highest levels, nothing much is going to change. .
        (remember trish-the-dish duggan hobnobbing with some of the top politico’s not so long ago? )

  • Just had a great conversation with a friend.
    Wish everyone to wake up thinking of positive things and people you know.

    • Too late. I woke up with a sense of impending doom.

  • Dave Reams

    I accidently donkey punched myself yesterday while making my bed. Shaking the sheet out, it got behind my neck without me noticing and when I snapped it down … A mind aching ouch!

    A cursory examination of the internet reveals donkey punching to be like Scientology – a baseless but very dangerous practice. The only sphincters activated are those doing the punching.

  • Scientology Investigation Throws Munich’s Haus der Kunst [House of Art Museum] Into Turmoil

    https://news.artnet.com/art-world/scientology-influence-haus-der-kunst-881753

    /

    • John Prince

      The Germans don’t mess about with co$ ! They’re very much onto the mega-scam and are watching the clampire like a Hawk. Anon has all but chased them completely out of the Country here, I’m happy to report, and the last few scilons around here are keeping a very low profile..I’m still waiting to hear from the cherch of Scientology /Hannover about my oca “test-results” that I took online back in October last Year 😎

      • I keep coming across German-language books about Scientology in Amazon searches, which I have never heard of.

        I often think that Germany’s particular cultural sensitivity to totalitarian behaviour could teach the English-speaking world a lot if only they were translated.

        • John Prince

          You might say They learned their lesson with Hitler! Zhey are not about to let another Wako-Supremacicst group get anywhere NEAR Power & influence around here..Not if they can help it

          That’s one thing Uncle Sam could learn von der Vaterland ✌

  • Missionary Kid

    OT. I now know why I didn’t like Seinfeld very much. I’ve got the TV on, and didn’t bother changing the channel while I’m posting on the Bunker, and I realized that the show is populated by narcissists. Everybody has to have their way, and disregards everyone else.

    If I had friends like that, I’d get new friends. They’re toxic.

    • There is certainly no arguing with taste, and humor is no exception.
      It is funny that you just realized that all the main characters in Seinfeld are loathsome. This was the show’s main appeal in fact. Can’t think of any other show where the stars were the worst people in it. That alone is revolutionary and funny.
      It was a reflection of how pervasive narcissism is in society. We all know people like that, and are all a bit like that, as much as we hope otherwise.
      The last episode is the culmination of their terrible behavior. They are all convicted and imprisoned for violating a “Good Samaritan” law by failing to come to the aid of an overweight man being car-jacked at gunpoint. Instead they crack jokes about his weight.
      Get it? They went to prison for being loathsome.
      We (who think it funny) laugh because it is so extreme in its portrayal of this aspect of our all-too-human nature.

      • Missionary Kid

        I loved the final episode. The ending captured the self centered-ness of the characters perfectly. I know a lot of fans didn’t like it, but I sure did.

  • Jack99

    Lloyd Cole in a black turtelneck is much better than Tom Cruise in a black turtleneck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDoJQH8Pz8s

    • Ella Raitch

      Now this takes me back to a time….

  • Juicer77

    Welcome, newbies and lurkers and under-the-radars. Tea is on – help yourself to a cup. f5 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4eb8435aeef4fd4a0a0e70cec1cb178a783c3cd11dde2bfe657fd1a3eeb4ba3e.jpg

  • Robert Eckert

    We don’t see Andy Nolch on camera. I like to imagine that he is wandering around the place in his bathrobe.