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Ron Miscavige on life at Scientology’s secretive Gold Base (and getting thrown in its lake)

 
Last time we talked with Ron Miscavige, he had some pretty incredible news for us about a laptop computer that may contain some of the most explosive evidence about the Church of Scientology in decades.

We’re working with Ron for an update on that story, but today we have a treat for you: It’s an interview of Ron by contributor Jeffrey Augustine.

The two of them go over some really interesting territory in this discussion. Ron lets us in on what it was like to hear from his publisher about how his book, Ruthless: Scientology, My Son David Miscavige, and Me was selling.

They talk about what life was like on Gold Base in California, where Ron lived and eventually escaped from in 2012. Jeffrey asks Ron about a few famous incidents at the base that we don’t think we’ve heard Ron talk about before.

We learned, for example, that Ron’s musical skills were called upon when Katie Holmes at one point wanted to put together a special song for Tom Cruise. How sweet!

Another time, Ron stayed up 82 straight hours to put together a theme song for Saint Hill Manor, Scientology’s UK headquarters. Now that’s Sea Org dedication!

Ron also discusses a couple of notorious deaths on the base, and about his own experience being thrown in the lake there as punishment.

We think you’re going to find it a fascinating discussion. Let us know what you think about it!

 

 
——————–

 
HowdyCon 2017: Denver, June 23-25. Go here to start making your plans.

 
——————–

Scientology disconnection, a reminder

Bernie Headley has not seen his daughter Stephanie in 4,657 days.
Claudio and Renata Lugli have not seen their son Flavio in 2,254 days.
Sara Goldberg has not seen her daughter Ashley in 1,294 days.
Lori Hodgson has not seen her son Jeremy in 1,006 days.
Marie Bilheimer has not seen her mother June in 473 days.
Joe Reaiche has not seen his daughter Alanna Masterson in 4,591 days
Derek Bloch has not seen his father Darren in 1,761 days.
Cindy Plahuta has not seen her daughter Kara in 2,081 days.
Claire Headley has not seen her mother Gen in 2,056 days.
Ramana Dienes-Browning has not seen her mother Jancis in 412 days.
Mike Rinder has not seen his son Benjamin in 4,714 days.
Brian Sheen has not seen his daughter Spring in 821 days.
Skip Young has not seen his daughters Megan and Alexis for 1,223 days.
Mary Kahn has not seen her son Sammy in 1,096 days.
Lois Reisdorf has not seen her son Craig in 677 days.
Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike in 1,182 days.
Mary Jane Sterne has not seen her daughter Samantha in 1,426 days.
Kate Bornstein has not seen her daughter Jessica in 12,535 days.

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on February 8, 2017 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

The Best of the Underground Bunker, 1995-2016 Just starting out here? We’ve picked out the most important stories we’ve covered here at the Undergound Bunker (2012-2016), The Village Voice (2008-2012), New Times Los Angeles (1999-2002) and the Phoenix New Times (1995-1999)

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • richelieu jr

    Cant wait to MP3 this for my walk today!

  • Ella Raitch

    You tease Tony. I read the first line (and not the headline) waiting for the article to load, anticipating the ‘well, we got it and here it is’.
    Katie’s song for Tom: “You’ve Lost that Loving Feeling”?

    • Sherbet

      “You Don’t Own Me”

      • Draco

        “Hit the Road, Jack”

        • MissCandle

          50 Ways to Leave your Lover

          • Sherbet

            50 Secret Ways to Leave Your Lover

      • SarahDB

        I love that song and when Diane Keaton, Goldie Hawn and Bette Midler sang it with choreography! Priceless!

        • Sherbet

          I saw that movie, too!

      • John Prince

        This could get ugly 😎

        • Sherbet

          We’re all just quoting the terms Katie included in the divorce agreement.

    • SarahDB

      “You’re So Vain”

    • “Somebody That I Used to Know”?

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      She could sing this to Tom:

      My Life written by Phil Ochs.

      My life was once a drag to me
      And I loudly, and I proudly, lost control
      I was drawn by a dream
      I was loved by a lie, every serf on the scene
      Begged me to buy.
      But I slipped through the scheme
      So lucky to fail
      My life was not for sale.

    • mark

      “Short People”

    • thetastic

      Tom cruise crazy.

  • I don’t think there’s been any news of deaths on the base until now. With a few hundred people in one place, it’s bound to happen by mere statistics, and they won’t anyways have time to shift them elsewhere like Ann Tidman.

    /coffee

    • SarahDB

      Wasn’t a daughter of one of the church’s attorneys electrocuted at Gold?

      • Ah yes, right.

      • Ella Raitch

        You’re right, Kendrick Moxon’s daughter Stacy

    • PickAnotherID

      Ashlee Shanner was killed on Highway 79, just outside of Gold, because someone there ordered a contractor to move a loader on the road, at night, with no lights or flagman.

      • Yes, but she wasn’t a Scientologist living on the base.

        Along with natural deaths, there would have been suicide attempts that didn’t fail.

        • PickAnotherID

          No, she wasn’t. But her death demonstrates the ‘Gold’ mind set, avoiding Miscavige’s displeasure is more important than any risk to human life.

    • Techie

      Mostly if you are sick enough to die you are sent somewhere else. If you go looking there are deaths at the “Happy Valley Ranch” such as a friend of mine that got cancer and was sent there to die. Greg Brown his name I think. Other deaths at the Big Blue are Gold staff members like Uwe Stuckenbrock. Sent there to die after he got MS. A lot of sick folks got sent back to Australia or Canada to leach off the universal health care systems. I don’t know of any actual deaths on the Int Base besides Stacy Moxon and Ashlee during the time I was there 1983 to 2004. Oh, there was a guy that got killed in a motorcycle accident on the road through the Base, forgot his name. Supposedly his kickstand didn’t stay up and when he took the left turn to go into the housing area north of the road it caught and threw him into a telephone pole.

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    The velvet tones of Jeff Augustine. Perfect listening for today, can’t wait. 🙂

    • Missionary Kid

      When I heard of the tornadoes that hit N.O., I immediately though of you. I’m happy to see you here this morning.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Thankfully it was all north of us but it was scary windy here. Now everyone pitches in and helps where they can.

    • SarahDB

      Hugs- mornin’ sweetie

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        What’s the latest news on your partner, Sarah? Is he recovering well?

        • SarahDB

          I drove him home last weekend, he wanted his independence! I’m going down there today to spend a few days (maybe get snowed in tomorrow, blizzard forecast) now that my classes are over for the week. I think he’s making slow and steady progress, thanks for asking Andrea!

          • Sherbet

            Yay!

            • SarahDB

              I must admit I enjoyed getting a few solid nights of sleep after he left!

            • Sherbet

              Haha. I capeesh.

            • Ella Raitch

              Ha ha – good for you!

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            It’s so good to hear he’s on the mend after such a major op. I hope you enjoy some peace and quiet together 🙂

            Please think of your UK friends and send us some of your snow.

          • thetastic

            Glad to hear an update!

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        ***hugs*** Morning. 🙂

  • Panopea Abrupta

    David Miscavige: intent on destroying everyone’s ego except his own
    The intelligence gene is recessive in that one.

    $cientology: a Dead song
    “I don’t know but I been told
    It’s hard to run with the weight of Gold
    And I don’t know but I heard it said
    It’s just as hard with the weight of lead”

    Clean up your act, Dave

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b01463fda11b178b1371fa3be76f5b81cbac53832043f310bad9fd402d3d2a2d.jpg

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Aww, baby anteater 🙂

      • Susan black

        but what’s that other thing? plush toy with potato?

        • thetastic

          Dat’s da nose!

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Trumpy!

      (it’s an MST3K thing – not to be confused with Donald Trump)

  • 31 years ago, Hubbard drops loot!

    Hubbard Left Most of Estate to Scientology Church; Executor Appointed February 8, 1986, Associated Press

    My finger math says that they were missing one of the six living kids, probably Alexis. “tens of millions of dollars”, that Heber, such a kidder! It was over 40 “tens of millions”.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Phat l00t?

      • https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UHoGwsN2uyw/hqdefault.jpg

        $400M+ and whatever was buried around Creston Ranch in suitcases.

        Funny thing is, the value of his estate didn’t seem to be part of what Scientology was telling the IRS a few years later. (Hidden in case the deal went sour?)

  • Newiga

    YIPPEE!! In for a treat when I get home. Stopped by to say Hi to y’all!

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I’m also at work and silently fuming that I have to wait!

      • Newiga

        I’m also nursing a nasty migraine. 🙁 Gonna soldier on. Too much to do.

        • SarahDB

          Hugs from a fellow sufferer

        • Draco

          Ugh. My worst – being at work with a migraine.

          • SarahDB

            I used to teach school on occasion with a migraine, that’s challenging!

          • Newiga

            Exactly. Plus someone nagging about a meaningless little detail…

          • Newiga

            Still going strong… x(

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          🙁 Are you feeling any better?

          • Newiga

            Getting there. 🙂 A good night’s sleep helped a lot. Thankfully, Friday is around the corner. 😉

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    “We’re working with Ron for an update on that story…”

    This made my ears swivel in the manner of a more than usually excited Labrador.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    As a teenager, flirting with Scientology, I also flirted with other really stupid things. A book in my library almost as destructive as Dianetics was “Steal this Book” by Abbie Hoffman which explored the hippie philosophy.

    In his own “Book One”, Hoffman explored, among other things, ways to get out of the draft. His idea was that you could get out of the draft by committing a federal crime but one so low that the punishment would be zero. His opinion was that the most innocuous federal crime was killing a bald eagle. Well, that’s fine, but he also understood that it was very hard to find a bald eagle to kill. So he suggested that the second most innocuous federal crime was conspiracy to kill a bald eagle. A conspiracy was three people (as I recall) and Hoffman recommended the cabal be you, a buddy and a cop.

    Well, in all the days since Snow White surely Scientology has done something worse than conspiring to kill a bald eagle. I hope there is something on the laptop RM discusses that is far, far worse than that. I hope that it is recent and actionable. I hope that it really gets the powers and authorities to take a good, close look at what they have been doing. I can only hope.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I always love your comments 🙂 Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the laptop belong to the “let him die” private investigators?

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Thanks for your kindness in pointing out what is certainly my error. I have edited the comment for clarity. My high hopes are already being dashed. I have come to believe that the only way the authorities will stand up and take notice is if Miscavige is found beside a bleeding body with a smoking gun.

        • I’m not sure even that would work.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            OK. David Miscavige during the SuperBowl intermission drags Monique Yingling by the hair, out to the fifty yard line. He pulls out an assault rifle and pumps a hundred rounds into her as America watches. He yells into the air, “Ha, ha, ha, ha… The bitch got what she deserved,” then pulls out a revolver, and fires it at Terry Bradshaw or whatever beloved American is on the scene, grazing his or her shoulder but drawing enough blood to stain his or her shirt.

            I think he would get 99 years for drawing blood from the beloved American.

            • Or hated American. If he took a wild shot at Donald Trump, and the Secret Service took him out…

      • Draco

        yes.

      • Mrs. B ( noseinabk)

        My under caffeinated thought was “what does RMycroft have on his laptop?”

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4a8be7303a9e1de0fcf500bb9d492ab42c000cc38cef6af25fb1677fe4fc6fd7.jpg

      • chukicita
    • Techie

      Abbie Hoffman, all round real crazy guy and hero of the Chicago 7 (trashed the Democratic National Convention in 1968, after the “Summer of Love”). Wasn’t it Abbie who said that conspiracy just means “breathe together” (from the Latin derivation) so we should all come and breathe together to end the Viet Nam War? But his culinary ideas make a lot of sense. Basically all dishes are just s*** on a shingle. Example: spaghetti,the meat sauce is the s*** and the noodles are the shingle. Applicable across a broad range of ethnic cuisines, from hobos with their Dinty Moore stew cans on the camp fire to beef cordon bleu.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        Chili and toast is the classic.

      • Sherbet

        Pedant here (who lived through it): The Summer of Love was 1967.

        • ze moo
        • Techie

          I stand corrected. I also lived through the Summer of Love but I was in High School and didn’t get laid.

          • PickAnotherID

            I had just arrived for my first tour in Japan. And I did.🇯🇵

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Neither did I but I would have had I chosen The Process Church of the Final Judgement over Scientology. It was a better cult for engaging in sex.

          • dagobarbz, fine Italian shoes

            I was in high school too, but the family took a trip up the coast and stopped in San Francisco. Fascinating! Lots of exotic hippie types!

            Dad bet me $5 I wouldn’t walk down a block on Haight, and I was out of the car before mom could lock the doors. They wound up giving me $5 to NOT walk down Haight St.!

          • Sherbet

            I didn’t, either. I was enrolled in an all-girls Catholic school, so that should tell you something.

          • Missionary Kid

            I was in my last year in the Marines.

    • I found a copy of “Steal This Book” once, but someone stole it.

    • Phil McKraken

      I enjoyed The Autobiography of Abbie Hoffman very much. There are some memoirs that stand out over the years, and that’s one of them.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I never read it. I haven’t thought about that stuff for a while but I am thinking about it now. At age 16 I thought the hippy stuff might make sense. Like Scientology it seemed a good way to get out of having to work. That had to be my main attraction to it.

        I was 13 years old during the Summer of Love. I wasn’t going to truck off to San Francisco. But some of my cousins who were a little older went off to Toronto’s Haight-Ashbury, Yorkville, and wasted time there. In some cases it took years to get over the damage it caused them– not unlike Scientology. Also, the Scientology cult office was only two blocks away from Yorkville and I am certain that was no coincidence. Their main clientele seemed to be the damaged hippies.

        • Harpoona Frittata

          “…some of my cousins who were a little older went off to Toronto’s
          Haight-Ashbury, Yorkville, and wasted time there. In some cases it took
          years to get over the damage it caused them– not unlike Scientology.”

          Ummm, unless your cousins got sucked into one of the other cults operating at the fringes of the hippie scene, like the Moonies or the Krishnas, then their experience wasn’t in any way comparable to being in $cn!

          In fact, I’d go so far as to say that the free love/recreational drug use/peace & environmental activism that were some of the defining values and activities of that era were the very antithesis of $cn at any level of comparison that you might care to make!.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Hi, Harpoona. I don’t want to go into details because there are real people involved but there was a flip side to the peace and love. I stick to what I said.

            • Reminds me of an article you might like, “Slouching Towards Bethlehem” available in the book of the same name, by the journalist Joan Didion.

              She went and interviewed real people, honestly and presented a world that was far more self-deception, squalor and addiction than love and peace.

              This was a period during which social attitudes changed… but it’s highly questionable whether the anarchic activities of those who dropped out really made any contribution to this, other than adding some colour to the media coverage.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Again, my thanks, Once Born. I mentioned here, several months ago that I had a book published. It was set in that period and it doesn’t have any hippies in it. My afterword is noting that hippies didn’t exist. I, myself, fit the definition as well as anyone but I didn’t walk around looking like Jimi Hendrix on stage. I didn’t use drugs. I spoke the Queen’s English and never, ever said, “groovy”. I couldn’t find free sex no matter how hard I tried. I was a student who worked the summers and sometimes weekends. But I had longish hair, wore grubby clothes, hitchhiked many, many thousands of miles. I never met a real live hippy though I was in a position to meet many if they were any. I met a lot of freaked out kids with no where to go at the Scientology cult office. If the definition of hippy was freaked out kid with nowhere to do, I met plenty.

              Now that I think of it I remember one guy who used to dress like Jimi Hendrix when on stage. Everyone thought he was a poser and a fool. He was.

            • I wonder if the whole Hippy thing wasn’t mostly a new kind of national myth, constructed by the media and people who loved media attention – something that those “freaked out kids” aspired to, but didn’t really know how to go about because the sub-culture, as presented, didn’t really exist.

            • Harpoona Frittata

              I’d have it no other way! Perhaps the West Coast version had better drugs, more beautiful girls and the best music and that explains the differences in our experience then.

        • The sociologist Stephen Kent (well known for his uncompromising attitude to Scientology) would agree with you.

          His excellent book “From Slogans to Mantras” proposes that the boom in new religious movements was partly due to their being able to attract people disappointed by the failure of radical politics, but still looking for ‘an easy way to change the world’ https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/08/13/from-slogans-to-mantras-social-protest-religous-conversion-and-scientology/

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            THANK YOU! I had no idea that someone with a Ph.D. had thought about it deeply. The Krishna cult office was just a couple blocks down from the Scientology office. It was cult row. I once got stopped (cycling) along there by a beautiful girl who was a member of the Process cult. They might have had their headquarters along Avenue Road, too.

            The hippie thing was largely a myth. While there may have been an actual hippy at the corner of Haight and Ashbury for twenty minutes or so in July of 1967, no one but no one fit the stereotype. They (we) were all there for our own reasons. Robert Crumb who has written about it both at the time and in reflection, said that by 1968 the criminals came in to Haight-Ashbury and took over. I think it was no different in Toronto.

            I was at the Toronto cult office for Scientology on my Christmas break from high school in 1970 or 1971. I took the comm course in 1971. Everyone there was about my age. Some were quite a bit younger though it might seem hard to believe. A friend who was a auditor told me that everyone he audited had used LSD. This was not a typical cross section of the population or even of the youth of the day.

            I know that Scientology calls people forth to clear the planet and help the world but they also tell the WOGS that they will become clear and have enhanced powers then OT and have superpowers. The hand-bill hander-outers went looking for people’s ruins, not for people’s noble purposes. Many of the hippies were quite blind or unwilling to face the harsh realities of life. Living with a stripper (the guy’s dream) or a lead guitar player (the girl’s dream) seemed like a whole lot more fun than studying and doing what your parents told you to do while working part time and in the summer. When things didn’t pan out in Yorkville there was another group of people willing to take you for what you had just down the road.

            • Kent’s examples include Krishna and Scientology, and what you describe is pretty much the situation he discusses.

              I wonder if the Hippies and the Scientologists didn’t have more in common than might be thought. They both bought in to an unrealistic fantasy about being able to change the world without having to put in the hard labour.

              The early stages of Scientology certainly present a ‘comrades on a mission’ impression, and also bang on about ‘communication’ and ‘freedom’ in a way that harmonises quite well with counter-culture aspirations towards being freed of conventional inhibitions.

              Of course, it’s not until much later that you learn that Scientology redefines the words ‘communication’ and ‘freedom’ to mean their exact opposites, and that the CofS is actually far more repressive than the most hidebound outsiders.

              Much the same happened to the Hippies – as I note below, lover and peace were promised but many ended up with squalor and addiction instead.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Hi, Once. As always thanks for your thoughtful commentary. I always enjoy it. I found my short afterword about the 1960s. I hope you enjoy it. It is actually only a page but that looks pretty long on the Ortega site. No need to read it if other matters are pressing. There will be no test on Monday.

              STARTS HERE.

              I just watched Scott Mackenzie perform “San Francisco” on youtube. What a freak! Nobody I knew dressed like that and I mean nobody. If anybody did, Markie Schulman, would have beaten the snot out of him and that would have served as a warning to others. The closest thing I remember was Marlene Robertson who had her hair cut like Twiggy and wore maxi-skirts back in 1967. People called her Mod Broad behind her back. She had no friends.

              And there were no hippies. I mean, maybe there was a hippy standing at the corner of Haight and Ashbury for 20 minutes one night during the summer of love but that was it. A hippie had to have the following characteristics— long hair, wear paisley or tie-dyed purple clothing, live on a commune, engage in free sex (not with me though, and I forgive them that), smoke dope, drop acid, see the world from the far left and listen to Strawberry Alarm Clock, Moby Grape and Iron Butterfly on FM radio. Their favourite movie was Easy Rider, favourite play was Hair, favourite dance was flailing limbs around in an uncoordinated fashion, favourite book was the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test just because it had the word acid in the title and their religion was either Bhuddist or Jesus Freak. They didn’t play sports. If they had to their favourite would have been horseshoes (hand grenades for those who ended up in Vietnam). A hippy’s short term ambition was to be cool (which is pronounced K-ooo-l not Kule). The long term ambition was to join the Peace Corps as long as that didn’t involve work. To be a hippy one had to live in a hovel. They named their babies Peach or Flower. They preached love but hated Richard Nixon.

              It remains a mystery where their money came from. Based on my interviews, it seems the boy hippies paired up with strippers and the girls with lead guitar players. They skipped out on their rent a lot and ate a big supper on Sunday with Mom and Dad.

              Now, upon examining my own description, I was politically left and hated Richard Nixon but none of those other things applied to me. Like most of my generation my hair was shaggy, but not long by any modern standard. I dressed like a slob. However in 1967, at least in Toronto, a student could not wear blue jeans or a T-shirt to school or he or she would be suspended. By 1968 I could wear only blue jeans and a T-shirts or Markie Schulman would beat me up. My elder brother had to wear a tie in university. By the time I got there, if I had worn a tie the students in Fine Arts would have wondered what I was trying to pull.

              Hippies and quasi-hippies were not hippies at all. They were just a bunch of slobs. And we/they all knew which side the bread was buttered on. We learned difficult skills applicable to the world around us and tried to get rich. We tried to find someone to love, and wanted to be loved. We found a bit of time for hobbies and recreation. Some of us followed a dream, but most of us were practical. It was just a lot easier to wear jeans for two weeks straight, get a haircut when we damn well felt like it, smoke dope if that was more agreeable than alcohol and maybe go to a protest once in a while. At the protests we tried to find socially awkward girls that might want to go to a movie with a well-meaning slob some Saturday night.

              And the whole 60’s thing didn’t start until 1964 and it didn’t end until 1972. As best as I can tell it started with Kennedy’s assassination, the Beatles and the escalation of the Vietnam War (which, quite rightly, gave American males something to be really upset about). It stopped with Watergate, the end of American involvement in the Viet Nam war and the dissolution of all good music until Costello and Springsteen came along. Of course elements of the sixties stay with us and always will be lurking around. Thank goodness.

            • That’s another insight into the reality behind an enduring media myth.

              As you say, those stereotypical Hippies didn’t have much of a business model, and you have to eat (I suppose there was always drug dealing, but that typically turns nasty very quickly indeed). Where were they all, and how did they support themselves.

              From my point of view, in a relatively rural end of the UK, the whole thing seemed like an American media presentation (complete with gramophone records and merchandise for sale, by big corporations). We consumed the products, but didn’t bother to think it through. Apart from a few fashions, nobody really tried to live like that.

              Perhaps people need an explanation for social change that’s simpler than the reality of structural shifts, the influence of new technology, conflict and so many other things interacting in a chaotic way.

              It’s easier to put it all down to 60s ‘revolutionaries’ who actually wrote a few playful and unrealistic books, and were seen a lot on TV, than it is to study history.

            • Gus_Cox

              Oh, funny, I thought, “San Francisco” wasn’t by Scott MacKenzie! lol, I went and checked it out and I was like, “oh, *that* San Fransisco!” lol. Lovely song.

              I originally thought of “San Francisco” by Maxime LeForestier
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q61cFrsB9Gw
              Also a lovely song and worth a listen.

              C’est une maison bleue…

              My probably somewhat inaccurate translation of the first bit follows (thanks for teaching me French a long time ago, Amethyst)

              There is a blue house
              Next to a hill
              We come on foot, we don’t have to knock
              Those who live there threw away the key.

              We gather together
              After years on the road
              We come and sit around a meal
              Everyone is here, at five o’clock in the evening

              When San Francisco gets misty
              When San Francisco’s alight
              San Francisco, where are you?
              Liza and Luc, Sylvia, wait for me

              The rest goes on about being there and then leaving – it’s about a sort of commune he visited and hung out at in the late ’60s, and how even though those times ended the City is still there. Even without knowing French, it’s a pretty tune and one that everyone over there still knows. One of my favorites.

              We did get a lot of good music from the time! I tend to think the Hippie Era ended with the Manson Murders, rather than Watergate and all that, but I guess I wasn’t there so I’m only looking back from outside.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Hi, Gus. In some ways, the era never ended. I am one of those people who still has a lot of that in his headspace– only the good parts. I have my little essay up somewhere explaining that I wasn’t a hippie but there was no word for what I was– maybe a quasi-hippie but after the fact. Maxime sure has that hippy look about him. Maybe the hippiest thing I did was hitchhiking all over the place, certainly more than ten thousand miles. That diminished dramatically for all of us when Clifford Olson killed twelve of our number in B.C. I am about to listen to the song. The lyrics are strong.

        • Phil McKraken

          It’s an interesting book in that you get his perspective on the events he’s famous for after his years of living in hiding. And his telling of his life, before, during and after the yippie movement, is just damn entertaining. He was quite a character.

    • Missionary Kid

      Believe it or not, but a friend of mine got out of the draft because he had way too many traffic tickets. He’d played cat and mouse with the local cops way too many times. I guess they figured he wasn’t dependable or couldn’t follow rules.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I completely believe it. My wife missed the sixties. I was telling her just yesterday that getting medical marijuana today is a lot like getting out of the draft in the late sixties or early seventies. You got/get a list of things that will achieve it for you, then find one that suits you.

        • Missionary Kid

          I lived in a more working class community when I was growing up in L.A., but I graduated from high school and started college at 17. I was living in a more middle class community when I registered, so that was my draft board. Since there were a lot more guys that were in college, the pressure was on not to drop out.

          Looking back, I would have been much better off with a gap year for maturity, but the draft didn’t allow it.

          What I didn’t know was that the Coast Guard had a program, that if you joined before you were 18, you could serve for 18 months, and then you would be placed in inactive reserve for 6 years.

          If I had signed up for the National Guard, or the Reserves, when I was 17, I would have been practically assured of not going to Vietnam, because few were called up. By the time I was a junior in college, just getting on the waiting list for either was a 6 month process.

          The State National Guards were rife with cronyism. Jr. Bush got into one of the Air National Guard units and got flight training without having to go to Vietnam, when they were desperate for pilots.

          Another person who got into the California Air National Guard and got his wings without having to serve active duty was Dino Martin, Dean’s son. Sadly, he was killed when his F-4 hit a mountain in California.

          Everyone else that went into flight training had to serve out years of active duty after getting their wings.

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            Hi, Mish. We are certainly of the same generation. I was, and remain in Canada, so I never had to be directly involved with the draft situation. But I heard stories, read Time Magazine and listened to Phil Ochs sing Draft Dodger Rag. I didn’t know about Dino Martin though I remember him from Dino, Desi and Billy. I had no idea that he died that way. Thanks for all the details. What I do remember is going to New York several times in the early seventies. I don’t remember if the lottery system was active by then. What I remember is everyone I spoke to, and I mean a dozen or more people, had a way to get out of it. I don’t remember even one person ending up doing military duty in Viet Nam. The citizens had figured out how to avoid it if they wanted to.

            • Techie

              Lots of my friends avoided the draft by illegally immigrating to Canada. So you may have met a few that would never tell you about it. Of course, most of my friends ended up in BC on Vancouver Island, pretty far from your area.

            • Missionary Kid

              Dean Paul “Dino” Martin died in 1979, well after the draft, but he got into an Air National Guard program that sent two men from each state for pilot training without having to serve in active duty, other than Guard exercises. It was a program that was not publicized. My beef really isn’t with him, but with the favoritism that was rife in the Guard.

              Bush Jr. got into the Texas ANG under the same program. The only active duty that he served was going through OCS and flight training. I believe he was, in essence a draft dodger because he got into the program because of political connections, knowing that he would, in all probability not have to go to Vietnam. It’s alleged that his scores didn’t warrant flight training.

              Many of the veterans of Vietnam era service didn’t talk about it, because of the hostility towards the draft, and a desire to get on with their lives. You probably met a lot of them, but, since they weren’t open about their service, unless you asked specifically, they wouldn’t talk about it.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Thanks, Mish. I find that very interesting. I actually have me very few veterans. I appreciate the insight.

            • Missionary Kid

              We’re all over the place. We recognize each other, I don’t exactly know how, but I think it’s because we listen for places that someone has been that indicate military service.

              Many of the old military bases have been decomissioned.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              Just to mention it, my father, who passed away more than forty years ago, was actually in the Canadian Military during the time of WW1. His job involved the military so there were always people from the military in our home, including the foremost general in Canada. I said, “Hi” to the guy in our living room. After the Hanoi Hilton was let out, one of those guys drove up to our home to talk to my Dad. I remember the twitch. I also remember him saying, “Thank God and thank Richard Nixon that… [I am out of there].” My Dad was not an important man and I grew up without many material goods, but his job was almost unique so these people, including cabinet ministers (yes, plural) came around. Now if not for that I would have very little knowledge of military affairs. Canada has a very small military and an even smaller military culture. It is remarkable going to the US and being put to the back of the line in a Carl’s Jr. when a whole squadron comes in. That just doesn’t happen here. So unless things are as obvious as they were in the Carls Jr. I am generally unaware.

            • Missionary Kid

              Methinks you meant WWII for your dad.

              At the present time, America is, IMO, overcompensating for the low opinion of the military during Vietnam. I believe that we are, in essence becoming a modern equivalent of Sparta with an overemphasis on military solutions.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              My father was born in 1903. At the time, in Canada, anyway, it was common to lie about one’s age and join the military. Many years ago I checked with amother WW1 vet to see if my Dad’s military service was likely true or some family fiction. He assured me that if there weren’t enough men coming from his neighbourhood that he could even have been pulled in. My father remained on Canadian soil during the War. He never talked to me about it but I have a much older brother who has discussed it with me.

              The Sparta analogy is interesting. I don’t have an informed opinion about how much of your military is actually needed. The consensus here is that our lack of military is because we would rely on yours. We never have had to, but in the worse case scenario America would not allow us to be invaded.

              I am certain that we could take our entire health care budget, drop it into your military budget, and it would not make a ripple.

              I think of Israel as Sparta. It would be nice if a day came when they could stop being Sparta.

            • Missionary Kid

              Wow! Even if he enlisted at the end of the war, your dad would have only been 15 when he joined.

            • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

              I assume that it was right at the end. In that discussion I had with the old vet, about 30 years ago, he told me that they were taking them as young as 13. My father had a grade three education. I guess he had to do something.

            • Missionary Kid

              Wow again. My dad was born in ’06, but Sweden was neutral. He never was in the military, but he saw enough of war in China. My mom was older.

  • Mary

    Three years today since I’ve seen my son.
    THanks for your tireless efforts in exposing the abuses of this church.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Oh, Mary 🙁

    • Draco

      (((((Mary))))

      • joan nieman

        I hope the day comes soon Mary. Much love out to you.

    • Newiga

      :(((( My heart breaks for you, Mary! T_T

    • Dylan

      I hope you are able to reconnect.

      • Mary

        Me too. One day. I believe we will. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

    • chukicita

      Mary, where is your son? Can we all send him postcards saying “call your mom?”
      He should get them, because it’s a federal crime to tamper with mail. And we know Scientology would never do anything illegal ;D

      • Chee Chalker

        That’s a great idea! Swamp the orgs with postcards saying ‘call your mom/dad/sister/brother….’

        • chukicita

          Here’s one that fits a standard postcard template. I thought about using the billboard art, but this design doesn’t contain anything that could possibly be perceived as suppressive (like the URL on the billboard).

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4a2c8fe5c8ed2a2cb4796928d284b69ef11470bc0b29cf9a86d2096e0614f6a5.jpg

          • Chee Chalker

            I like it!
            They might even be convinced that someone wants to hear from them concerning the blech…
            The old bait and switch – reverse Dianetics if you will

            • chukicita

              I don’t get the bait and switch…it’s pretty straightforward!

            • Chee Chalker

              Call me because I want information about your ‘amazing’ technology and I have a lot of money to spend on complete nonsense……..when Org calls you, you say ‘call you mother, etc’

              A long shot and wishful 🤔 (thinking)

              But maybe you plant a seed of doubt?

              I love the idea of plastering nearby (near the Org) light poles, etc with ‘Call Me’ bumper stickers.

              The only problem with that is no one goes into the orgs!

            • chukicita

              The other problem with that is you have given an org your phone number.

            • Chee Chalker

              Yes that is an excellent point
              And even after all that, they’d still keep you in Central Files to count you as a ‘stat’

            • littlefish

              It’s a lot of work – but you could set up a phantom number that forwards to your real number without ever giving up the real contact info and can be ditched at any time.

            • chukicita

              You’re right – it’s a lot of work!

        • John Prince

          It’s an EXELLENT Idea! Post a L O N G List of Name&Adress of disconnected scibots ..that’s something we could all DO! ! Think the Time is Right 😎. .if “ordinary” scibots started getting truckloads of Postcards from all over the World from Strangers, simply saying “hey, Your Mom/Dad/Son/Daughter. ..right down to the Family Dog MISSES You! Please Call! !”..
          The more I Think of it, the Better I Like IT 👪💪

      • Mary

        I don’t know his address. He moved to Virginia/DC about a year ago area with Sean Clouden’s Company. The last email address I have for him is samkahn2343@gmail.com
        He thinks the family breaking apart was my fault because I refused to go in and “get handled.”
        I would love to be able to tell him that it’s not about his beliefs, it’s about the abuses.

        • chukicita

          Mary, how old is your son?

          • Mary

            He’s 25.

        • chukicita

          Sean Clouden seems to have a handful of companies. The latest one was registered in Vienna, VA in August, 2016. It’s called Waterbury Publications. There is another Waterbury Publications that is not in VA, and I don’t think they are related. There is no website for Sean’s new company, However, it has the same mailing address (that looks like an office in a bank building) as another of his companies, Viceroy Software. 8521 Leesburg Pike, Suite 320, Vienna, VA 22182.

          Clouden is also affiliated with M4L, Inc., Muscle for Life, Inc. and Legion Athletics, Inc. which are active FL companies. He was previously affiliated with the now inactive Ck Productions and The Kaplan Group, Inc.

          • Mary

            I think the company my son works for is Legion Athletics and it is in Vienna, VA. and that address you listed above is it.

          • Maybe search Pat or Patrick if they are related? I love the post card idea 🙂

      • John Prince

        Your idea ROCKS Chuki! !!!
        (see below ⤵)

    • (((Hugs)))

    • Well Mary, we never would have thought to have all this help from journalists and WOGs! Have a happy day and thanks for speaking out about Sammy.

      • Mary

        Yes. More and more. People like Tony and Paulette paved the way and others made it easier and easier to speak out. One reason I have more hope than ever is throughout history when someone or something becomes so toxic, some politician or lawyer goes for the gold star and does something about it – when it is no longer so threatening.

        • Yes we got lots to hope for and it will turn out OK for us. It took me years to get to this point and it was Hell getting out of there. We will be OK. Let’s stay strong and healthy for these guys leaving. I bet Sammy will bring a few with him 🙂

    • I’m trying to up vote this. (((Hugs))) Becky I’m right there with you ! Wo Hoo! Becky! We will win 🙂

    • I hate platitudes, but am often guilty of using them.
      And you likely don’t need them.
      Because you must believe.
      And I believe that your hopes will come to pass (ouch platitude warning).
      And sooner rather than later.

    • RedShoeLady

      May you be blessed one day with the surprise visit of your life. ❤💕

    • Xique

      Unfair and undeniably cruel. I’m very sorry to hear this , I hope you reunite with your son someday soon.

  • Susan black

    great advise from Ron to those still in…”JUST WALK AWAY.’

    • Techie

      When you are in you are told that you need to go through all kinds of hoops to “route out properly”. You are supposed to see dozens of people who will all try to talk you out of it, hold the cans and spend hundreds of hours confessing your crimes, on and on. It is far wiser just to walk away and never look back, but few have the courage and skill to do this. If you just walk out the pedestrian gate at the Int Base there will instantly be a crowd of Security Guards all around you, strongly suggesting that you are making a mistake. But the fact is, you are in view of passing cars and they would not dare to actually restrain you in public. You could literally just walk down the road, leaving all your earthly possessions and friends behind, but I don’t know of anyone who has done this. It is a pretty long walk to the nearest public transportation (though Google Maps does show a bus stop there these days).My advice to anyone reading this who is “in” is just go ahead and walk away. Get in touch with the police and they will escort you back to your living area to pick up your stuff. I know several people who have done this.

      • ze moo

        Just go back quick. SO and others love to steal from each other.

      • Umph. They’ll probably check the traffic before deciding not to restrain you. Luckily it’s a busy road. (No wonder they want it closed.)

        • Ben Franklin

          I bet they would come up with an excuse just to restrain the person. They might say the person is acting crazy and that the restrain is necessary for his or her own safety.

  • Susan black

    I want to hear Katie Holmes sing. Can you fix that, Tony?

    • OOkpik

      🙂

    • chukicita
      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        From Dylan’s song by the same name.

        So sing your praise of progress and of the Doom Machine
        The naked truth is still taboo whenever it can be seen
        Lady Luck, who shines on me, will tell you where I’m at
        I hate myself for lovin’ you, but I should get over that

      • Chee Chalker

        Girl can’t sang
        I hate myself for having listened to that

        • Sherbet

          Girl can do stealth divorce, though.

          • Chee Chalker

            That she can
            That she can

          • April

            Like a boss! heheheh

      • April

        Holy shit that’s awful. Joan Jett sings it with such ballsy “fuck you” overtones that it’s jarring to hear in a cutesy little girl voice. I hate cutesy little girl voices from grown ass women.

        • chukicita

          Well to be fair, I am pretty sure she is *acting* here, so it might not be the same voice she would choose if she were singing from her own personality.

  • SarahDB

    I love how Jeffrey Augustine conducts interviews, more, more!

    • RedShoeLady

      I just finished the entire podcast….starting over at #1 and hearing things I missed the first time. Good stuff. Jeffery Augustine is awesome.

    • April

      I like how he keeps interjections to a minimum. And that although he already knows the answer to some of the questions asked, he lets the interviewee answer in detail from his/her own perspective. Rock on, Jeffrey Augustine!

  • Robert Eckert
  • TexasBroad

    Fascinating interview. So many interesting stories. Ron repeatedly touches on the mechanisms of control that keep people from leaving the SO, whether imposed upon them (never being let off base alone, information control, etc.) or self-imposed….

    ” You have, over a period of years, agreed to certain things that you put restrictions on yourself, like ‘Now you can understand why we have to censor your mail because we don’t want anything getting off the base or coming in to you that would disturb you from doing your best possible work’ and ‘Well, I maybe can see that’ and after awhile you think ‘Yeah, I can see why they do that’ and “You don’t want to not have someone on the extension of a phone while your talking because this way you might miss something but that other person would pick up on it.’ It’s little things that you agreed to and once you agreed to them, they’re part of your thinking so over many years all these little points of agreement are literally bricks in a fortress that you built and you have yourself imprisoned in there.”

    Interesting that Jeffrey is hearing rumors that routing out is taking longer than ever because there aren’t enough auditors to keep up with the sec checking necessary for the number of people wanting to properly route out. Ron’s advice? JUST WALK AWAY! Deal with whatever repercussions there are. It will all work out because you’re doing the right thing.

    • Xenu’s son.

      Felt more like Gold DeBase.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      If $cn is a prison of belief, as Lawrence Wright so aptly described it, then the Int Base is like Super Max for $ea Org staff who are serving multi–lifetime sentences, while the rapidly dwindling number of non-$ea Org staff are serving shorter sentences in minimum security prisons. And every public $cilon is on short-leash parole and must submit regularly to sec checking, just to ensure that they’ve not committed any thought crimes and have stayed behind the self-imprisoning bars of their own belief.

      • April

        Holy shit that’s a great analogy!

    • Mary

      Enjoyed this interview as always when Jeffrey does these. Jeffrey asks such great question, has great comments and a very kind and soothing voice.

    • PickAnotherID

      Are there any phone booths like that left in the US??

      • stanrogers

        With handsets, you mean? Don’t think so.

      • Ben Franklin

        A few decades ago I don’t think people realized just how fast phone booths would become useless.

        • dagobarbz, fine Italian shoes

          They’re not “useless.” They make great emergency toilets!

          • Ben Franklin

            or shelter in some cases.

        • Rasha

          I think we can learn a lesson from the Golgafrinchans….

          • stanrogers

            I know for a fact that there would be huge marketing studies going on for years in the event that we ever had to reinvent fire.

            • Rasha

              …but should it be fitted nasally?

            • stanrogers

              Oh, crap. Our ancestors were on the “B” Ark, weren’t they?

            • Rasha

              Yes, yes they were. At least we got the signature on the glacier…. That’s kinda cool….

            • flyonthewall

              Rasha, umm I kinda won some front row tickets on the radio to see Smashmouth and well uhh do you think you’d want to, well, you know, if you’re not doing anything maybe you’d want to like go I don’t know go with me, if you want?

            • flyonthewall

              forget it, it’s stupid, I was just kidding I don’t even own a radio.

              Stupid fly, so stupid!

            • thetastic

              No radio, tv, or coffee table? There must be quite the echo at your house.

            • flyonthewall

              No, was just crazy. At least it was full of love : /

        • And pagers

      • flyonthewall

        there’s one in Metropolis so that Clark Kent can have a place to change into his Superman outfit but that’s it.

        • Sherbet

          Maxwell Smart had one, too.

          • flyonthewall

            Get Smart? I never watched that show. True story

            • Sherbet

              It’s OK. We won’t tell Mel Brooks.

            • flyonthewall

              he was behind that show? Wow. I only know his movies. I will have to be sure to give it a watch.

            • Sherbet

              Yes, and Buck Henry.

              Don’t expect much. It was a product of its time.

              BTW, the phone booth was just in the opening credits.

            • flyonthewall

              Oh I thought the phone booth was the main character. Forget it

            • Sherbet

              I think you want “Doctor Who.”

            • flyonthewall

              Never saw that one either. My parents didn’t watch tv, half the time we didn’t even have one in the house. One of my parental units thought tv was plebian and most music was evil/morally degenerate so I had to do all my cultural learning in secret and on the sly, which inevitably stunted its development.

              Flylady’s house was the opposite so she watched all those shows and is a big Dr. Who fan. Loves the british comedy and sci-fi shows especially

            • Sherbet

              I watched Who once and said, What??? I don’t get it.

              When are you going to write a book about your unusual past? Or at least a pamphlet?

            • flyonthewall

              You can’t get upvotes by writing a book. You want to know something really weird? My dad hated coffee tables and wouldn’t have one in the house. One time my mom bought one and he had a shit fit and literally threw it out the door. LOL

            • Sherbet

              OK…Luckily, we have a staff psychologist in the Bunker to address all our childhood traumas. Unfortunately, the waiting list is a mile long. Me, first!

            • flyonthewall

              is it MockingBird? Plz say it isn’t MB cuz if it is…I’ll do something bad

            • Sherbet

              It isn’t. It’s Observer. She’s the most level-headed among us. She also has a degree in psychology from Sequoia University.

            • thetastic

              Was he tall? Did he bark his shins on them or something?

            • flyonthewall

              I will prob be like that too if/when I ever get around to watching it.

            • I remember those. They weren’t actually ‘phone boxes as such. They were little concrete buildings with a direct telephone line to the nearest police station that could be accessed from the outside, and a tiny secure room with two benches inside.

              Police on the beat, back in the days before radios and mobile ‘phones, used the ‘phone to communicate, and the public could also use it call the police.

              The secure room was used to temporarily lock away prisoners or, more often, for coppers to shelter from the rain and warm up on bad days/nights. They used to be all over the place, but were knocked down when cars and radios took over from walking a beat

              One of the last of the Police Telephone Boxes used to stand on the green opposite my Gran’s house. When I used to visit her I was always impressed that the Tardis was parked nearby.

            • Sherbet

              I remember the police call boxes on telephone poles. Not only could the public use them, the police could call for backup as well.

            • Graham

              Like Officer Dibble in Top Cat?

  • Observer

    I won’t be able to listen till after work, but I can’t wait!

    Meanwhile, “David Miscavige, Ecclesiastical Leader of the Scientology Religion,” has his minions posting things in a blatant attempt to:

    1. Ingratiate himself with Christians
    2. Associate real, terrible persecution with criticism of Scientology
    3. Exploit the real suffering of millions of people to make the lazy and/or ignorant sympathize with the manufactured “plight” of his organized criminal enterprise

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/69ba734946a901cb4a1ee750094aaecfef0c84d81b9409ff53882d5767f0835c.jpg

    • stanrogers

      P.S.: No such guy; it’s all an implant. Have a nice day!

    • Ben Franklin

      Whenever Scientology under fire they always try to find ways to compare themselves with other religions. They often compare themselves to Catholics and on the issue of disconnection they talk about the Amish, but I have never Jehovah’s Witness.

      • Chewkacca

        The best comparison would be with the Spanish Inquisition.
        WOOO…….OUCH!

    • Sherbet

      Thanks, Dave. That’s very helpful. Pardon us for being skeptical about your intentions.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Lil davey – $cn’s very own Moonchild – seems intent on trying to “sheep dip” the entire religion and frame it as a victim or religious intolerance, when in reality $cn is one of the least tolerant high-demand/high-control groups on the planet and can’t be seen as anything but a faux religion…that is, unless worshiping yourself as a god now counts as a qualifying attribute!

    • “the Scientology Religion”
      What an awkward phrase.
      Why not “Church of Scientology”?

      • Jimmy3

        Because that is broader and blankets all aspects and forms of Scientology. He is still Lord of the Squirrels, dontcha know.

        • stanrogers

          Those heretical chipmunks, on the other hand, are on their own.

          • ze moo

            What about all of the rodentia? Why leave out the mighty Capybera?

  • John Prince

    I’ve been itchin’ for news about that maggot powell’s “other” laptop ..why is he not behind Bars for welching on his Deal with Federal Prosecuters? If I got caught with a silencer I wonder If I could skate away so easily?

    • Ben Franklin

      They claimed that they were gun enthusiasts and that the silencer and the guns found in their possession had nothing to do with their work as Private Investigators. I think that is why the police let them off easy with all those guns because there was some evidence that they were actually into shooting guns, and such a thing could have raised reasonable doubt if the case went to trial.

      • ze moo

        The ATF are the ones who passed on criminal charges.

        • Ben Franklin

          Yep. You are right. I got mixed up.

          • ze moo

            I have to wonder what the ‘pi’s traded to get out of that prosecution. Anybody else would have done Federal jail time.

            • Ben Franklin

              I think the fact that they were willing to talk, and that no one was physically injured might have made things a little bit easier for the two. In large part , they were just doing what they were hired to do as private investigators, and if it wasn’t for the silencer and the guns they may not have been in trouble at all. If they had a commercial type silencer, I think that would be a whole different case.

              This case would have been difficult for any prosecutor because the two were not just some random people stalking Ron Miscavige, they were private investigators by trade. It would have been very difficult to prove without a doubt that they intended to cause harm to Ron with the guns.

            • ze moo

              Simple possession of silencers is a federal crime. If someone named Mohammad had one, he’d do prison time.

            • Ben Franklin

              That’s for sure. For someone named Mohammad, they don’t even have to be in possession, just being in the vicinity of it is enough to get arrested for it.

              It is a crime to possess silencers but this was a crude home made “silencer”. If they had a good lawyer, the case went to trial, the lawyer could have asked the prosecutor to prove that it this a true effective silencer and not just some crude home made gadget. A homemade gadget may not be as effective as a commercial gadget, and it’s effectiveness may bring into question whether it is really a silencer or just an imitation of a silencer. It is hard to argue such a case without some serious expert testimonies involved.

            • ze moo

              The ATF is used to such shenanigans. Expert testimony is an in house specialty. No, the PIs traded something. I still wonder what?

      • As a detective I might have assumed they were trying to corner and kill their target. The state should have charged these men with possession of a silencer. Two PIs hired by a man who wants his father dead, driving around in a truck full of guns with silencers is a pretty open and shut case, IMO.

        • Ben Franklin

          They probably made a plea deal. Legally it is not an open and shut case, because the prosecutors would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that David wanted his father dead. The testimony of the two men would not be convincing because they didn’t know for sure who they talked to on the phone. Miscavige would obviously deny that it was not him speaking to the private Investigators. Just proving that alone would be so much time consuming.

          If the two men were truly gun enthusiasts as they claimed and the guns were legally purchased there is nothing the prosecutor can do on that front. As with the silencer, I don’t know, there must have been some compelling reason for law enforcement not to lay charges.

      • John Prince

        Pardon me if You will,Ben, but I seem to think the reason silencers are (suposed to be )really REALLY Illegal in the U.S is BECAUSE of all the “gun enthusiasts” running around armed to the Teeth over there! My Super DOOPER Wog senses tell me he avoided Prison because captain pissypants laid out enough cash for a get-out-of-jail-free card ‘cuz He CAN’T have that laptop examined by the “wrong” People!

        • Ben Franklin

          CoS made sure they had access to the best lawyers as soon as they were detained.

          • John Prince

            That’s more like it 🔫💵

    • ze moo

      You would not skate away from possession of a silencer. However, some Republican lawmakers want to ‘decriminalize’ the possession and use of Silencers. It is being called a ‘hearing protection act’.

      http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-silencers-20170110-story.html

      • Science Doc

        It could be called The Italian American Benevolent Fraternal Association Retirement Specialist Hearing Protection Act.

  • Ben Franklin

    I was hoping that Jeffrey Augustine would ask Ron Miscavige why he got thrown into the lake. In other words, what did Ron do or not do to be punished with overboarding?

    • Techie

      It was always something stupid. I remember the whole Audio division getting thrown in because I was late for something. Except I had medical OK not to go in the pond because of the skin ulcers on my ankles. So everybody else had to pay for my misdeeds, which made me super popular. One guy even told me he found leeches on his body afterwards. Other times it was because something was not done on time, or somebody mouthed off to somebody. Sort of like in boot camp where they are always saying “Get down and give me 50 pushups!” (at least according to the movies). The higher ups were always threatening to throw you overboard and once in a while they had to follow through to retain any credibility. Actually this happened mostly after the year 2000, in the 90s it was pretty rare and sometimes they even used the swimming pool instead of the pond. Could have gotten worse after I left in 2004.

      • Sherbet

        Did you work with Marc Headley, Techie? Sorry if you don’t want to answer. I was just curious.

        • gtsix

          It’s been answered here – when Mark was on Aftermath and hung around at the Bunker, they exchanged someposts. Marc’s went: TECHIE!

          So.. they might possibly be aware of each other, and may have at some point in the past, work together. Conceivably. Likely. Perhaps. 😉

          • Sherbet

            I missed that. Thanks, sixer.

        • Techie

          Yes, he mentions me in his book “Blown for Good”. And since my cover is blown below by GTSix might as well mention that Ron M talks a bit about me and Luigi in the interview with Jeffrey today. In the Music Studio with flashlights. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a2d8c5b05963b07f9b3c386e4c0c61af7b175639d28d79af03b0edeae23c9abf.png This is from “Highwinds” magazine #19 at https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/08/16/highwinds-magazine-how-scientology-would-like-members-of-the-sea-org-to-see-themselves/

          • Sherbet

            Cool! I’ll be listening to Jeff and Ron tonight at home. (Love the computer. We had a Tandy Radio Shack Model #1 in our cellar for years until we finally trashed it.)

          • Ben Franklin

            My goodness techie. I just realized that you had first hand experience in the notorious “Hole”. I had no idea.

          • sizzle8

            Techie’s posts should be archived and made into a book. Lots of good stuff!

            • MarcabExpat

              Yep, Techie’s, and Sunny’s too.

          • gtsix

            I did not blow your cover! I just read what you and Marc wrote.

      • Ben Franklin

        Were there designated people (maybe like security staff) whose job was to throw other’s into the lake? I would imagine they would have to forcefully carry someone or push them into the lake. Were there any people who fought back?

        • Techie

          The Chaplain always “said the words”. Never heard of anybody fighting back, after all getting wet is nowhere near as bad as being sent into a room to write up all your crimes for days on end or some other punishment. At least it is over fast. And you are not breathing human waste, like those who were sent to the evap pond to “clean it out” with manual tools.

  • Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their son Mike in 1,182 days.
    Phil and Willie Jones have not seen their daughter Emily in 1361 days.

    • Missionary Kid

      That’s approximately 3 years and 87 days for Mike and 3 years and 266 days for Emily. (leap year days weren’t figured in).

      • I hope you’re feeling better MK. It would be nice to see you at the billboard dedication.

        • Missionary Kid

          I am feeling better. I actually got to sleep most of the night in my bed. That’s progress. Right now, I’m looking forward to being there.

    • Newiga

      You two will be in my thoughts on Saturday the 18th. xxoo

    • Cece Smith has not spoke to her daughter #3 Sandy in 1290 days. Or actually its been 1290 days since she phoned to let me know it was the last call unless….
      Son #2 Jeremy phoned 1288 days ago to tell me to write my KRs and come back or else….
      Gotta laugh at these threats. Supposed to be low toned per their own tech. Family meeting will be interesting once this is all exposed indisputably. Looking back its so easy to see this is just a sham. Stay strong and healthy to see the end part 🙂

      • Together we’ll beat this.

        • Some days are hard. Thx for trying so hard for so much but I think we need to swamp them.

    • Mary

      Best wishes to you and Willie. Hope you have a great turn out for the billboard unveiling. And thank you so much for what you are doing to end this vile practice of disconnection.

      • Thanks Mary. Best to you as well. Hopefully this abuse by Scientology will end soon for all of us.

  • TOOT to OT

    The interview was riveting.
    I was wondering:
    1) When you were thrown overboard were there people standing around watching?
    2) Did you ever see someone else thrown overboard?
    3) What did they tell spectators? Who were the chosen ones to push the people over?

    Unbelievable.
    Very glad you are going to keep talking and definitely glad Jeffrey continues the interviewing.

    An idea for those people that want to leave: maybe we free people could organize an Underground Railroad?

    • Ben Franklin

      See Hubbard’s Order on overboarding. Quite Chilling to say the least.
      M/A is “master at arms”
      ——
      SEA ORGANIZATION

      FLAG ORDER 1499 21st October, 1968
      M/A Hats

      Overboard, Throwing people
      Amendment to FO 1479

      As long as the custom of throwing people overboard has grown up, the following drill must be observed:

      (1) An M/A Must be present

      (2) He must see that boats are not close by nor will they come around from under the stern or bow and so be below for people to bash into.
      (3) He must see there is no debris in the water a person can hit.

      (4) The person may remove his watch and shoes.

      (5) The Chaplain or a deputy must be present to receive the watch arid shoes.

      (6) The accuser Must state exactly why the person is being thrown overboard and at whose orders.

      (7) The Chaplain must say, “We commit your sins and errors to the waves and trust you will arise a better thetan.”

      (8) The M/A with any deputised person must throw the person far out from the ship so that he cannot hit the ship.

      (9) A person who cannot swim may be put in a life Jacket (which is much worse to hit the water with).

      (10) The person is brought aboard via the dock or a pilot ladder or via the boat door.

      The degrees of being thrown overboard are being [a] thrown overboard, [b] being thrown overboard twice [c] being thrown overboard blindfolded [d] being thrown overboard with his feet tied in a bow knot.

      People may not be thrown overboard under weigh but may be at anchor.

      The degree of swell or wave has no bearing on whether they go overboard or not.

      Any water gotten on deck by a person thrown overboard must be Mopped up by him thoroughly.

      Anyone wearing salt stained clothes or going around wet or trying in any way to make others guilty goes overboard again.

      If it is discovered in a subsequent Ethics hearing that the person was not the offender and was wrongly thrown overboard, the person who ordered it must pay a one dollar laundry bill.

      L. RON HUBBARD
      COMMODORE

      —————-

      • ze moo

        Lron again proves he is mankind’s best friend.

      • Qbird

        good god. No! just no.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        “If it is discovered in a subsequent Ethics hearing that the person was
        not the offender and was wrongly thrown overboard, the person who
        ordered it must pay a one dollar laundry bill.”

        Classic Elron! Being an all-knowing, all-powerful cult leader means never having to say you’re sorry or make amends for harming others, even when you’ve officially admitted that injustice has occurred.

        It’s too late to overboard Elron (except in your mind, that is), but if there ever was a $cilon who needed to be punished for his sins against the cult and the founder, then that would be lil davey, $cn’s very own Moonchild!

      • Graham

        The copyright of any video footage of the overboarding taken by the Commodore shall rest with the Commodore, who may view such footage at any time of his choosing, solely for the purposes of his own sadistic pleasure.

  • Lousy Ratatouille
  • DenaSolo

    Great interview, I just love Ron. He is a tell it like it is kinda guy.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Great interview!

    I was shocked to hear about Stacy Moxon’s death. It was the first time I heard about it and found out she’s Kendrick Moxon’s daughter. I read this online:
    “Scientology gets away with murdering Stacy Moxon”:
    http://www.skeptictank.org/gen3/gen02060.htm

  • Jimmy3

    When you mock up a clone, they are initially hairless. That is why this Jeff Augustine looks different. It’ll take a while to grow in.

  • Yeah its early to veer off topic, but this is in keeping with my prediction that Donald Rump will go full Kanye sooner rather than later.
    This is from a dyed-in-the wool Republican. The rest of the article is good for examples of Rump’s private mind-set. Spoiler alert: the hand towels on Air Force One aren’t soft enough.

    “I’ve been in this town for 26 years; I have never seen anything like this,” Eliot Cohen, a senior State Department and National Security Council official in the George W. Bush administration, told The Huffington Post.
    “I genuinely do not think this is a mentally healthy president.”
    http://theweek.com/speedreads/678812/aides-staffers-are-reportedly-leaking-about-trump-genuine-alarm

    • Graham
      • When the crazy guy says you’re too crazy for him…
        Although most of his supporters are too stupid to know how stupid they are, there will be some who find one thing or another (like the good Mr. West) to finally bail out of this nightmare.
        “Yeah, I didn’t mind it when they came for the Jews, but then they came for me.”
        “Yeah, I think the wall was a great idea, but nobody told me I would have to pay for it.”
        “Etc.”

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    A song for Tom Cruise?
    I imagine Katie as the singer in the middle:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv5pSqS98iU&list=LLalFrFxLOarw4pLrdxPdCkg&index=1

    • flyonthewall

      Lousy, I know you appreciate good music. I got some Smashmouth tickets I’m not going to use. : ( You can have them if you want. PM me if interested

      • Jimmy3

        What you need to do is sack up and get your game on, go see them play. You’re an all-star now.

      • Lousy Ratatouille

        No, thank you, Fly. Thanks for the nice offer. They’re a great band. I just watched them again on YouTube. Their song I like best is I’m a Believer.

  • $cnMonkeyNut$

    Great interview from Ron and Jeffrey, and loved Ron’s final words of advice to those under the radar that are thinking of leaving: “Just. Walk. Away!”Also… and just to be totally clear… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/140df06163a056a2eba65ca444315d5c28b7e6b1808fec65a5aa6d701596fb3c.jpgnot Hemet 🙂

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner
    • Thanks!

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Welcome, sweetpea 🙂

    • Juicer77

      Yay! Thanks!

  • Sejanus

    Excellent interview.
    makes one feel they were there, but so glad they weren’t.

  • Ann B Watson

    Thank you for this interview and for sharing it here. Scientology still breaks my heart with its harsh and cruel treatment of those still in, those who got out and the cult still bothers them and the fact that Scientology never ever stops regurgitating lies. 💔

  • davegrille

    The picture of the church becomes more and more vivid.

  • This comment is way off on a tangent… but it occurs to me that studying Scientology gives you a different perspective on mainstream religious doctrine.

    Consider Ron’s experience of being thrown into the lake. Of course, the excuse for this behaviour came from Hubbard, when he invented’ overboarding’. The Sea Org were expected to pretend (and some might even have believed) that is was a ritual that ‘wash away your sins’ in some unexplained way.

    Since the information about the origin of this practice is still available, and Scientology was not able to suppress it, we know that its real origin lay in L Ron Hubbard’s enjoyment of arbitrary cruelty. Years later, it was also used by Miscavige (who had learned to enjoy the exercise of power for its own sake, from Hubbard himself) when he allowed his own father to be thrown into a lake for ‘religious’ reasons.

    Imagine if Scientology was not dying. Imagine instead that a sane leader had emerged, and managed to accommodate Scientology doctrine and practice to the moral standards of wider society. Imagine (and this is a big stretch) that Scientology managed to survive in some form without (for example) overboarding.and disconnection.

    You can imagine some future, shallow, religious scholar describing the rituals of ‘The First Reformed Church of Scientology’ in which:

    a) Overboarding has evolved into a ritual where a parishioner is warned that they have broken the rules by being ritually splashed with water when the enter the org and…
    b) Disconnection has evolved into a ritual in which the congregation symbolically turns their back on the erring member, then welcomes them back into the fold when they apologise

    This will never happen, because the CofS under Miscavige is now too far gone. Also, they can’t suppress their past. However, the possibility makes you think.

    It gives you a new perspective on the rituals performed by today’s ‘respectable’ religions (who did have the opportunity to ‘revise’ and suppress inconvenient information) and wonder how their practices really evolved, and what was the true story behind their origin.

    • flyonthewall

      No, this is way off tangent.

      Remember these? I use to have some and they were awesome. I’m going to go on ebay and buy back a piece of my childhood but this time without the horrible emotional scarring and psychological devastation.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQHw17WBca4

      • Jimmy3

        I remember that. Pound your Capri Sun and Vodka while waiting for the crack to cook in the Easy Bake Oven, then when you were good and tight, you’d total your Hot Wheels. Being a kid was fun.

      • Before my time. I used to have a helicopter that went around in circles on a counterbalanced arm. You could tilt with a lever, to slow it down and change direction,and use a hook on the bottom to pick up little bricks with a ‘eye’ on top.

        Come to think of it, that’s probably why I recently bought a Parrot Swing drone – a call-back to my childhood with added versatility. We’re all really still kids (if we have any sense).

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lox4eOtjxZA

    • Ben Franklin

      Let’s face it, this is not about washing someone’s sins away, otherwise, they would just dip someone into a bathtub.

      Over-boarding is punishment but in order to get away with the practice without having to face legal problems, they had to find a religious explanation for it. Although over-boarding is cruel punishment the Court is never going to interfere as long as Scientology describes the practice as a “religious ritual”.

      • Quite. What I’m wondering is, given this example, what the true origins of many mainstream religious rituals and practices were. It’s likely that they, too, had very little to do with the way in which they are presented today – the only difference is that the evidence is now lost in time.

        • Techie

          A really important one, the Eucharist, can be traced to some degree. It is mentioned in the letters of Paul, the earliest Christian author. He describes it as a communal meal, sort of like the pot luck Church picnics of today. Not much like the way they do it now, but the spirit of the idea still comes through.

          • A spirit which somehow got the doctrine of transubstantiation elaborated onto it for arbitrary historical reasons. Not at all what was originally intended, to my mind.

            Also, the doctrine of the trinity evolved more as a result of (documented) meetings that made extraordinary compromises for political as well as theological reasons.

            PS: I’m not knocking Christians here – this thesis could be applied to any established religious group. For all of the claims to possess universal truth, their actual doctrines constantly adapt to worldly changes – in fact, the religions that refuse to do so become extinct.

            Again, it makes me wonder how much of the original typically endures.

    • Techie

      I dunno, OB, the overboarding “ritual” always impressed me as a frat boy prank more than an honest attempt to change minds. Apparently Hubbard was so exasperated about his students on the Class VIII course on the Apollo that he started throwing them overboard when they screwed up just to scare them into flying right. He also did some weird things like setting up a picture of the god Shiva in the courseroom. I feel for those students, stuck on a ship with a fanatical madman, constantly harassed to “do it standardly” but not having a really clear statement of what “standard” would be. Often they would do it exactly as written only to have Hubbard fly off the handle that they “were not doing it right”, and then the next day a new issue would come out with a new procedure. Overboarding is a ritual more in the spirit of a drill sergeant than a cleric. But to your larger point, if Scientology had a decent management team they could graduate up to the 21st century as other religions have done. But the dictatorial authority over every detail of the lives of the followers, the adulation of the crowds, the rich flows of tearfully offered hard cash are a powerful deterrent to common sense. It took some truly viable alternative splinter groups and a few hundred years of warfare to moderate the Catholic Church. I think Scientology will just fade away instead. But then what happens to the cash?

      • I agree – overboarding was just mad, arbitrary cruelty and Scientology is done for (it’s just a matter of time). Also, I don’t think it could survive without the repressive measures – take away disconnection, and give members a little freedom, and it would disintegrate much as the Soviet Union did.

        I was just thinking that if you specified a situation in which Scientology did survive and moderate, what would it’s new rituals be, and how would their origins be described and justified? They would be quite different from the history or Scientology as presently documented.

        It makes you see religious ritual and practice as something that has evolved in an arbitrary way, often over centuries, and theology as a story that is made up afterwards to add legitimacy by creating a tradition.

        PS: the cash will:

        a) disappear into the hands of people who hid it away
        b) Languish, forgotten in numbered accounts
        c) Be consumed by legal wrangling
        d) Be passed from hand to hand until it disappears completely (probably into government coffers)

        Sadly, I doubt any of it will be used to benefit the victims.

    • Graham

      Ritually splashing with water instead of full immersion. Nah. No religion would be that crazy.

  • So the little squit had his own dad “overboarded”, eh? Tick-tock, Captain Davy… (resharpen all marlinspikes and cutlasses, me hearties!): https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f30fcb995794d7d8a98cd26e29d06aeca79b060c440895a403c08e80c6320c46.jpg

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Very OT but very funny (thanks to Obs). For some mad reason I can think of at least two Bunker homes where Killer would be happy. F5

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a6625b12e5b71a552fe6242882dd73943d7393ea198704c3fd6d46f7cb402bed.jpg

  • Fink Jonas

    Are scientologist “aware’ when they go to the doctor with a handler they are being watched so they won’t escape? How does that make you feel? How do they reconcile that with themselves? Does that make you feel evil, not trustworthy?

    • They are so slow boiled at that point I don’t think they ‘think’ as we know it. Its a difficult situation and a ‘self inflicted’ prison if you can believe that could ocurr.

    • We were told that we should never leave the compound alone, when I was working at AOLA and in Clearwater. We were told it was for our safety because the world was full of evil people waiting to assault us.

    • As Derek says below, they don’t feel evil – they are grateful that a comrade is there to protect them from the evil of the wog world.

      Alex Gibney’s coined the phrase ‘the prison of belief’ in the title of his documentary “Going Clear”. It encapsulates how Scientology controls its member by distorting the way in which they see the world.

      Unless you try to enter into that distorted world-view instead of seeing the experience of Scientologists from your own perspective their behaviour will always be incomprehensible.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Wishing Lori Hodgson a very happy birthday and hoping that Bunker love will go a tiny way towards alleviating the pain of Jeremy and Jessica’s disconnection.

    (She loves Batman.)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d019364b43eaf1553a781386db99787a03e81e0987eb4e40e3567ab46565ce9d.jpg

    • thetastic

      Happy birthday, Lori! Batman’s boobs look like hearts.

  • Roger Larsson

    Gold turned into shit isn’t gold, $cientology turned into centology isn’t $cientology.

  • Mymy88

    –Off Topic–

    America – laughing stock of the world. Thanks a lot Trump. I hope you pay for the pathetic example of a human being you are, and to think you are the leader of the US. It’s all too outrageous.

    • April

      IKR? I want out of this alternate timeline!

      • Mymy88

        LOL. Yes, I am now a covinced proponent of quantum mechanics 11 dimensions many worlds theory because I’m sure I have somehow stepped out of my own into another.

        • At least that means that there are more worlds out there where Trump failed, or is in jail, or on the street &c than there are where he is in power.

          It has fallen to us to take one for the multiverse.

          • Mymy88

            (F5 referring to 1st clip)

            But I don’t want to take one for the multiverse lol. I would love to see him in a world where this is happening to him. Round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows.

            https://youtu.be/MY9AehScs_E?t=95

    • MarcabExpat

      At least the world is aware that the population here is pissed off as well. And I thought I was embarrassed travelling abroad when Dubya was in.

      • Mymy88

        Ikr? He takes the cake (dirty bastard).

  • Qbird

    What was Ron Miscavige, Sr.’s “crime” that he was overboarded? Why?!
    What happened? According to his own words, this was the beginning of the end for him.

  • joan nieman

    Off to make more coffee to watch the video. I love these mornings!

  • In this video above. Ron Miscavige talks about the absolute love and adoration that Tom Cruise has for Miscavige. Tony Ortega has covered this previously but I do find it bizaare. I just cannot assimilate and understand undying unshakeable love for the likes of Miscavige. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/205a0c134b0541e92e6ca6e91e91a98c7f4ec7c264bc8ab4d0568a4b3234fa5a.jpg

    • Looks like they even dress the same. Even their shoes match.

      • Gus_Cox

        I guess they both get their lifted shoes from Lobb!

    • Qbird

      Who’s the lady not in black?

      • Tony Ortega

        Is that a Mapother sister? I don’t know.

        • Chee Chalker

          The gal in black is Lou.
          I don’t know who the lady in the Mom jeans is
          Maybe it’s Danny Masterson

          • Tony Ortega

            I wasn’t referring to Lou. The question from Qbird was ‘the lady not in black.”

            • Chee Chalker

              I realized that after I sent the post
              I was just so excited to see a reasonable picture of Lou
              Where she doesn’t look like an angry young man
              Looks like her station in life has improved…..fancy leather coats, riding in helicopters, hanging with movie stars……
              Of course there’s the downside of sleeping with a miniature Liberace, but we all have our crosses to bear
              (Which is what a police officer once told me after a particularly long St. Patrick’s Day as I was attempting to get my then fiancé, now husband, out of the tank).
              Good times good times

          • Qbird

            Tom has 3 sisters: LeeAnne (1959), his [former] publicist, Marian (1961), a teacher, and Cass (1963) a former restaurateur.

            Hard to find photos of sisters. am looking.

            :::lol, Danny ‘go fuck yourself’ Masterson, mom jeans:::

            • Chee Chalker

              To clarify (for those who may not know)
              Masterson’s cool hipster DJ handle is ‘DJ Mom Jeans’
              Which, for anyone else, would be kind of funny
              On him it’s just insufferable

        • Qbird

          Remarkably, there are very few photos of Tom’s sisters on line — his Mom, yes.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Her incisor dimensions aren’t perfect. She’s not a Mapother.

          • Qbird

            Speak up OT8 ~ who’s hanging with the TC / DM entourage?
            Please tell me that that is NOT Ken Delusion!

          • MarcabExpat

            You might get a giggle out of googling Tom’s early teeth….

        • Gus_Cox

          I wondered the same thing.

      • Panopea Abrupta
        • Qbird

          really hard to say, imo.

        • Gus_Cox

          Apparently DeVette’s divorced, and is now something else (in true Clam fashion).

          • Gus_Cox

            And oh, is there a story there.

    • EmmaDaoust

      Matching glasses, jackets, jeans, boots.

      • Observer

        Now poor Tom doesn’t have anyone to be matchy-matchy with him and COB and Lou. 😭

    • Observer

      Tom doesn’t come across as a rocket scientist.

      • Sherbet

        Weren’t they ducking from a helicopter in this picture? Regardless, it looks like Katie is telling Dave, “But I’m scrunching down as low as I can!”

        • Qbird

          I imagine her saying, “oh don’t worry Dave, you really don’t need to scrunch.”

          • Maybe it was one of those little clown copters?

            • Sherbet

              “Tom! Duck your head, or else you’re gonna…” WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP

            • Perhaps that’s why his face was so swollen…

            • Sherbet

              I think you’ve figured it out!

            • Observer

              At first glance I saw “clown corpses.”

    • Chee Chalker

      Like Miscavige needed to duck because he is at risk of being hit by the helicopter blades
      Not unless it was he world’s smallest helicopter

      • Sherbet

        It was the Hemet drone, and he got scared.

    • Chee Chalker

      Tom and Dave are wearing higher heels than the women

      • gtsix

        I think they are wearing the same boots.

        • Chee Chalker

          It’s nice when you have a girlfriend the same size as you

          • Gus_Cox

            Oh, hell, both of those women (not the one on the right) are taller than Tom and Dave! And man, is Dave short! I don’t know why He bothered to duck lol.

      • chukicita
    • Does he really need to bend down – surely helicopter blades don’t ever dip that low. Seriously.

    • Rasha

      Davey would have to be on Tommy’s shoulders for any LOOP THAT GIF danger to occur. I think the ducking is all about losing balance in the downdraft.

    • Shivani33

      The connection between the two of them is shown to be very strong and potent, as well as mutually beneficial. A parting from their friendship could be equally as potent, and possibly devastating to both , but D.M. could be particularly vengeful, in a “take no prisoners” way, especially if Cruise pulls out in any sort of manner which could shed any negative light upon Miscavige. But I think that Cruise knows this. My evaluation comes in part from having read astrological birth and “relationship” charts for more than fifty years. Looking at them both separately and in relationship to one another is quite interesting. I realize that reading astrology could be irrelevant to a great many people and certainly respect that.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      their both MAJOR pathological narcissist and self absorbed with “issues’ from their childhood to their height to women and on and on!… all we can say is what does it say about tom cruise of all the people he has met and worked with and known throughout the world for decades now, that he chose a sociopath abusive con artist creep like miscavige as his bff? so much he accepts the royal ass kissing for 30 years and counting,, so much he gives up and/lor loses wives for him and scientology… so much he willingly doesn’t see his youngest child to prove to miscavige and scientology just great of a cultie he is!.. guess ole tom never heard of the terms brainwashed and svengali?… is it any wonder people think that 1) cruise is literally insane 2) he is “in on the scam” and 3) something is going on way more than a bromance between the two!..

    • Chewkacca

      The “absolute love and adoration” that TC has for DM would change into something else (lower on the Tone Scale) if someone would tell TC about how DM ridiculed his sexual confessions in front of an audience of 40 people. Just ONE person who was there, telling TC the exact contents of the session data, and how DM laughed and sneered at what a chump TC is, and how the 40 people laughed along with him. THAT ALONE would make TC into the next Leah Remini or Paul Haggis.
      AAAROOUGH!

  • Taffy Sinclair

    I’m glad they touched on the deaths at Int/Gold. I wish they had talked about Stacy Moxon more. I don’t think it was an “accident.” Such a shame.

    • Techie

      Ron doesn’t know much about it anyway. The vault Stacy “fell into” had exposed high voltage wires and terminals, probably at 7200V. Not “400” as Ron said. And her body was severely damaged. I am not sure where I saw it on the internet but somewhere there is the actual coroner’s report. Not very pretty. http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/Stacy_Grove_Meyer_20/index.html

      • Taffy Sinclair

        Yes, thanks Techie. I have read the reports. Gory, indeed. I forget who’s book briefly mentioned her (Marc’s or Jenna’s) but it was mentioned. It hits me hard because we were close in age at the time of her death, and I was involved in my own situation w/ cult things. But I wonder what could’ve been had she been born to a normal father.

  • NewSciWatcher

    Hello bunkerites!

    This is my first post ever here, been following the Bunker since 2012 everyday (just love everything about this place and it’s people!) and have been sciwatching since the Lisa Mcpherson debacle during the 90s. I’m from latin america and never had any direct contact with the Xenu cult but feel for the people that do.

    Just going to express my thanks to Tony, Rod Keller, contributors and everyone in the message board for keeping up with the good fight, the good humour and all the good vibes, even when the theme is sad and disappointing.

    The only two things I would like to ask publicly and directly to Tony Ortega, but anyone else may answer as well, I`m not trying to be demanding or anything, just trying to get some opinions:

    – Why there hasn`t been a lot of coverage about the Hulu series The Path? It`s in the middle of the second season and everything screams scientology all the time! We`ve got a second generation takeover that squirrel their tech and demand religious tax exemption, members investigating ex-members in PI fashion, isolation rundowns, E-meter like gadgets, recruiting of minorities (some immigrants) and kids, sec checking, abuse of staff, compulsory work in a compound-like place, disconnection, FBI investigations, crazy leader that went into seclusion and died isolated becoming a god-like figure, money peddling and extorsion from members, buildings acquisition … I mean, the list just goes on and on… everytime I watch a new episode I think, what`s the bunker` opinion on these parallels?? How come no one confronted the producers with this?

    • Tony Ortega

      I try not to give a shit about fictional treatments of Scientology.

      I really only care about the real thing.

      The Master was an exception because it was actually dramatizing some little-known early history of the church, and because, before Going Clear, it was so rare to have any major motion picture treatment of Scientology.

      More and more, I’m seeing references to Scientology in TV shows and movies, and now it’s almost become a small fad to see it in fiction books.

      But I prefer to stay focused on the real thing.

      • NewSciWatcher

        Thanks for the prompt and honest answer!

        I agree on the current overusage of the cult cliché and mind control themes, but this show is drawing a very very close depiction of Scientology. I see it is as an amalgamation of modern cult’s characteristics, like the Moonies and The Family as well, but Scientology seems to be the main model.

        I can understand your position, the real thing is truly mesmerizing, I mean, that’s why The Path is trying to mimic it and why I keep scientology watching!!

        • April

          I agree with you that the cult on the tv show The Path is eerily similar in some ways to the CO$. I remember reading somewhere that the writers for the show say that it’s not a depiction of any specific cult, but elements pulled together from a variety of cults. There’s methods that nearly all destructive cults use in some form or another, such as disconnection from anyone who might be critical of the cult.

          http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/path-creator-refutes-scientology-comparisons-853594

          • Qbird

            exactly.

          • NewSciWatcher

            I agree, but like I said, it`s coming way too close to Scientology than other cults. Can it be a hurricane Leah effect?

            • Qbird

              No. imho. The Path débuted before Leah Remini’s docu-series.

            • April

              Have you read much about destructive cults? If not, I recommend that you do because then the commonalities will be more apparent. Robert Jay Lifton is a good place to start.
              https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NXIVM/esp11.html

            • NewSciWatcher

              Yes I have read a lot about the cults, I know they are similar, but the E-meter is a trademark (pun intended) of scientology and in the show they plug electrodes into their heads and process themselves, that specifically is not common at all among cults.

            • April

              Woo comes in many forms. Not surprising.

      • flyonthewall

        : ( But fiction gives you freedom to do a lot and cover many themes that you can’t do with non-fiction. You can do composite characters, manipulate time, place and event in order to convey the essence of the source material that can be more compelling and powerful than a documentary.

        • Sherbet

          Look — If Tony doesn’t give a sh**, he doesn’t give a sh**, OK?

          • flyonthewall

            I will show Tony the light

        • Tony Ortega

          Now you’re talking about a biopic or some other feature treatment of a real story. That I would be very interested in. Specifically, there’s this book called the Unbreakable Miss Lovely that would make for a really cool movie.

          But fictional treatments about “Mindhead” or “The Path” or “The Higher Mind”?

          Talking about that is movie criticism, not news.

          • flyonthewall

            I appreciate your unbiased opinion of TUML and I agree.

            You have Rod Keller doing Sunday Scientology social media right? You need someone to do Saturday Scientology entertainment reviews. I nominate Sherb.

            • Sherbet

              How much does the job pay?

            • flyonthewall

              i am just the nominator, not the payer. Talk to HR, they can help you

          • NewSciWatcher

            But I would consider the confronting of the parallels with the producers worthy news though, not the dissection of the series itself, because they would either say that they do use Scientology as a model (which is unlikely but a very PR campaign to go to right now) or they would squirm in their spinned answers which would be great to see too.

            • Tony Ortega

              I don’t understand. What is there to “confront” them about? They turned what they know about Scientology into a fictional show that won’t affect Scientology itself in the slightest. They would just say it isn’t about Scientology for legal reasons, Who cares?

            • NewSciWatcher

              It would show that Scientology (maybe their lawyers) still scares the shit out of media if they spin it for legal reasons, it`s supposed to make the producers take a stand in relation to the abuses of the church or simply show they are spineless and out for money.

            • Qbird

              Question: What is more interesting, a fictional story or the real deal about Scientology?

            • NewSciWatcher

              The opinions of the producers and their intentions are part of the real deal about Scientology, that`s my point.

              I couldn`t disagree with you on the Co$ being more interesting always.

            • Frodis73

              One of the creators/producers also worked with Erika Christianson on an earlier show, so take that for what you will. Since they do not want to get sued, they would never admit they used sci as a model for the show anyway.

            • NewSciWatcher

              Old news, but Paul Thomas Anderson got mixed up with some controversy between him and Tom Cruise for the Master. On interviews he would hint at and maybe admit the connection with Hubbard but he wouldn`t extend on it, spinning somewhere else. I wonder how much of the movie was just cut out due to his (and company`s) fear of Co$.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              the scary thing is “the master” was clearly about scientology and anderson previewed it for cruise before it’s release. the scariest and most unbeilevable thing? cruise saw it and didn’t 1) put two and two together and realized the movie and it’s main character was totally scientology and hubbard and 2) didn’t run out of the theatre and denounce scientology RIGHT THEN AND THERE!.. he truly must be out of his mind LITERALLY!….

            • Qbird

              I read an article last year wherein the author of the story said that it was based on many, many ‘cults’ but she had some personal contact with Kabbalah-ists.

        • Rasha

          …really? Cool. Be right back….

        • Rasha

          Following your advice, I made a composite character! … okay, well… it’s not so good. I have an arm from Edgar Allan Poe, an arm from General Leslie Groves, two arms from Marie Curie, an arm from Charlotte Brontë, and a couple of arms from Lenny Bruce.

          …not very talkative, but it’s funny to watch.

          …Hmmm… Rasha’s not so good at this….

          • flyonthewall

            best.Shiva.ever.

            • Rasha

              *rapidly builds temple with donation jar at the door…..*

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              My granny used to say “I’m off to spend a penny” when she needed a pee. Keep an eye on donations from grannies, that’s all I’m saying.

            • Rasha

              XD

          • Sherbet

            Original title of the Beatles “Help!” was “Eight Arms to Hold You.” You’re almost there, Rasha.

        • Observer

          But all that is pretty much the antithesis of journalism.

          • flyonthewall

            True. Tony needs an entertainment/media guest writer for Scientology themed stuff.

            • Observer

              I nominate Imani. Flylady’s FB post was hilarious.

            • flyonthewall

              I don’t recall : (

            • Observer

              I tagged you

    • TexasBroad

      Welcome out of lurkdom NewSciWatcher!
      I think The Path was discussed at length in the comments a long time back – late night OT stuff. If you google “Hulu Tony Ortega” a few hits come up when it was being discussed. It doesn’t help to google “The Path Tony Ortega” because “the path to total freedom” is mentioned too often.
      I started watching it way back when and then just fell off.

      • NewSciWatcher

        Thanks for the keyword search tip TexasBroad, will do that. I also remember when the show began that there was some reporting here, speculating these relations, but couldn`t keep up with the message board back then.

        • TexasBroad

          It’s impossible to keep up with the comments now…I am never able to do it! I just pretend nothing funny or interesting happens when I can’t be here and then just jump in when I can.

          • thetastic

            That’s the only way it’s possible for me to post at all.

      • NewSciWatcher

        Yeah, tried to find it in the site but couldn`t, it was worth a try.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Hi, New(Old)SciWatcher, do stick around 🙂

    • Science Doc

      I watched and enjoyed season 1. A number of us praised the show here, but I felt the main reason it echoed Scientology was to make the fictional cult believable in its extreme practices by comparison to the real cult. There are a lot of differences as well, e.g., drug use.

      • NewSciWatcher

        There is a lot of weed in the series… very much like a hippiesque commune (The Family-like).

        The ayahuasca thing on The Path is nodding to the União do Vegetal cult from Brazil and northern Peru.

        I’ve actually been to some of their rites and consumed of the DMT-iMAO brew. I couldn’t stand all the chanting though, they take the thing and go into singing hypnotic Christian psalms for 4 hours straight, at some point I just went down to lie near the river and enjoy the trip with the natural world, and it was amazing. When I came back some people didn’t look very happy with my escape, as if I did something wrong by leaving the group, broke the magic circle or something. A second experience with a more concentrated brew and proper company (no cult) in a good setting gave me some of my most cherished memories in life. Ayahuasca is great, all the chanting and the cultish side of UDV is just nonsense.

  • Chee Chalker

    Listening to RM Sr speak about his book making the best seller list makes me think of how successful a book by Sweetbuns would be….’My 25 Years as Mr. Fix It For a Sociopath’
    An honest book with factual accounts
    None of this Scientology warrior stuff.
    Just an account of all the hijinks

    ETA: for Family Guy fans…..Marty’s book jacket cover could look like Brian Griffin’s (black turtleneck big arms) book ‘Live It Love It Want It’.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      It could be subtitled, “The untold story of what Moonchild Miscavige made me do for him and to him” (with pics and links to video).

  • Taffy Sinclair

    Is Jeffrey Augustine and his wife Karen still involved in the independent Scientology movement? Is Mike Rinder, too, for that matter? Or have they all given up on that dreck?

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      “Is Jeffrey Augustine and his wife Karen still involved in the independent Scientology movement? Is Mike Rinder, too, for that matter?”

      No.

      • Sherbet

        Betts, any news from Billy Drummond lately?

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          He and his family have settled in really well; they had Christmas day together (with our Once-Born) in their new home, and the kids are slowly getting used to the cold!

          • Sherbet

            Awesome!

      • Taffy Sinclair

        Glad to hear it! Thank you!

  • joan nieman

    Very enjoyable interview Jeffery Augustine and Ron Miscavige. Thank you for this.

  • itsIBBy

    I know we’ve gone over this like a million times, but I miss LL too.

    Davey ducking for the helo blades in that photo is lol

    Ron M Sr.. I’m glad you’re out and able to share insight on your diminutive despot son. I hope they never silence you

  • Jgg2012

    24:40 of the Ron Miscavige video: $400,000 birthday party is excessive enrichment. Really? How about a $20million house, new $5,000 suits every week, fresh sea food driven in from Santa Monica, and every Sea Org member must chip in $50 for a gift for Davey each Xmas.

  • nottrue
    • Sherbet

      May 14: Happy Common Denominator to my Prenatals Day, Mom!

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    On the subject of keelhauling I can’t help thinking of Ronnie (LRH) and Davy with a bottle of rum and Yo ho ho
    (making fun of it just helps a bit):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2KCHLKZ2dY

  • flyonthewall

    This interview should come with a parental advisory warning. Ron says some bad words here. Specifically the fuck word. Also motherfuck and bitch as well as shit and cock and…oh nevermind that’s just Eazy-E I’m listening to. Carry on

    • TexasBroad

      My Momma told me there’d be Flies like you

      • flyonthewall

        this comment section also needs a parental advisory. Lots of sailor talk here. Very unseemly

        • TexasBroad

          Aye!

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Ahoy!

            • Rasha

              YeeHAAAA!

        • Rasha

          Where is Google when you need them?

          • Aft.

            • Rasha

              Arrrrrr…

        • Ella Raitch

          So bad.

  • nottrue

    Read a book .. …. Explain that to me TC. Then go run through the flowers..,, ,, . https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2b46c4a7842b9b45df3117f5e2bb46003a1929f9e6c8746b791b66ffddfe7534.jpg

    • Observer

      Disgusting

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      What the hell is wrong with these people? I’ll say it again: Scientology children are born into a form of captivity where there are no keepers to ensure their health and wellbeing.

      • April

        What’s truly depressing is that if a kid admitted to touching other kids in an inappropriate sexual way, they’d never get any real help for it, just “auditing” or other CO$ bullshit.

        • TexasBroad

          And worse still, if they answered that someone had done something to them, it would never be reported to the authorities. The most ethical people on the planet redefined the word “ethical” to mean that sexual abuse is handled on the cans and as a PR issue.
          Blood boiling.

      • Its horrible.
        To not have a normal childhood is horrible.
        I ache for the children in war zones.
        Unimaginable.

  • Dave Reams

    Poor Dave … The munchkin who was allegedly sexually harnessed. by the Whizzer of odd on the Gold Base set.

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/feb/08/judy-garland-allegedly-sexually-harassed-by-munchkins-on-wizard-of-oz-set?

  • nottrue
    • NNCF (New Names To Central File) Priceless…

      Creepy Cult!

      • April

        If they’re sending mail to everyone tweeting support for Leah’s Aftermath show, it’s probably the only CO$ stat that isn’t in decline. Other than the footbullet stat, which seems to always remain in “affluence.”

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    I can’t tell if this is old so apologies if already posted. This is a trailer for Reza Aslan’s new series which features Scientology, among other apparently batshit beliefs.

    “CNN Original Series: Believer with Reza Aslan”

    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/01/06/believer-trailer.cnn-promos

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      This is excellent.

    • Doesn’t she post here?
      That is excellent.

      • she does, just re-found it on FB

      • April

        Yes she does. I’ve had a couple of exchanges with her.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        She started off being Jon Atack’s assistant and general factotum after they met at the Toronto conference where Spike was a massive help, but over the past year she’s become deeply involved with the Open Minds Foundation and has been creating some amazing content herself, building on her own experience in a cult – plus she’s generally just a really kind, decent person with a healthy dose of bonkers 🙂

        • Factotum.
          I’m so gonna use that.
          And nobody will know what the hell I’m talking about.
          As per usual.

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            I insist on being called General Factotum at work 😀

            • Hilarious.

            • grundoon

              I hope you make them stand at attention and salute.

  • No Donald Rump isn’t going to use the office of President to further his own interests:
    “Trump lashes out at Nordstrom in a tweet for dropping his daughter’s apparel line”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/02/08/trump-lashes-out-at-nordstrom-in-a-tweet-for-dropping-his-daughters-apparel-line/?utm_term=.e1e7b2741b64
    (Hate to tell you “Donald” many more have also dumped her)

    • He has to keep up with the footbullets. The man is a Brick.

      • He’s spiraling.

        • It’s not my impression he is getting any sleep and is pestling everyone around him. Maybe nature will take care of him!

          • That’s what I’m saying.

          • JJ

            After the election results…and stuff… I was scared, then I thought um, no, we are not in four four years of this… We really aren’t, there is “let’s make crazy sweeping changes in the country” and then there is, this person is not only unqualified to hold office (which is not illegal) but he is mentally unstable and will not be able to carry out the necessary demands, issues, actions of said office.

            • Rubber room service at Walter Reed.

    • Frodis73

      Yeah, he was also in a security briefing at the time according the the WH schedule. I feel so very safe, don’t you?
      This orange twat needs to be impeached asap. The conflict of interests are staggering.

      • ADD.

      • Ella Raitch

        Seriously?

    • Observer
  • Oh gee, his own Supreme Court nominee thinks he’s a butthole:
    “WASHINGTON — President Trump on Wednesday lashed out at federal judges considering a challenge to his executive order banning travel from seven predominantly Muslim countries, as his Supreme Court nominee called Mr. Trump’s attacks on the independent judiciary “demoralizing” and “disheartening.””
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/us/politics/donald-trump-immigration-ban.html?_r=0

    • Missionary Kid

      Drumpf really knows how to piss off the judiciary. They are very protective of their Constitutional duties, and bristle at the Executive and Legislative branch attempts to impinge on them.

      Supposedly, some of the people around him are starting to question his sanity, if not his world view. On the other hand, I’ve called him a narcissistic asshole who doesn’t understand that the Constitution, as interpreted by the Supreme Court is what rules.

      • ohh!.. they are question his sanity, alright! more and more day by day

      • Frodis73

        WTF took them so long to question his sanity I wonder? To most of the world it has been obvious from the beginning. I do wonder what they are seeing in private…scary I imagine.

        • Observer

          I think it was hard for people to believe someone as successful as he always claimed to be could really be this unstable. I don’t really get it either though–he told us loud and clear who he is throughout the entire campaign.

          • And when someone does (tell us loud and clear who they are), believe them.
            I’ve been following him for 20+ years.
            Scam artist.
            He’s been exposed thoroughly, and we let the tiny-brained folk win.
            I have met the enemy, and he is us.

            • Observer

              The Republican party is committing political suicide, and Trump is the gun.

            • And the rest of us had not hit bottom.
              Are we there yet?
              When do we stop putting up with stupidity?

            • JJ

              Unfortunately no, but it is coming…
              Remember how much people changed and began questioning the government during and after Nixon. We are in for a sea change politically. Maybe that is just as well. Hard to envision though.

            • The pendulum is not just swinging.
              Its jerking back and forth.

            • JJ

              is it possible for the pendulum to do a three sixty…

        • Missionary Kid

          Trump mouthed so many slogans that were aligned with GOP right wing goals, they didn’t examine the logic of his speeches. When someone says things that you emotionally agree with, it’s hard to change your mind, and that particularly is true for the alt right.

      • Supposedly, some of the people around him are starting to question his sanity

      • “I’ve been in this town for 26 years; I have never seen anything like this,” Eliot Cohen, a senior State Department and National Security Council official in the George W. Bush administration, told The Huffington Post. “I genuinely do not think this is a mentally healthy president.”
        http://theweek.com/speedreads/678812/aides-staffers-are-reportedly-leaking-about-trump-genuine-alarm

        • Missionary Kid

          Of course, their statement is going to be dismissed by the Drumpf supporters as just a part of the old guard establishment Republicans that he is there to shake up.

          • Of course.
            But we are the majority.

  • Sherbet

    I’m laughing as I’m listening to Ron Miscavige. He’s like your congenial old uncle whose stories meander from here all the way over to there, and then they loop around and get off track and maybe back on track again. Jeff is so polite. He just lets Ron go on and on.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      You’re right! I really enjoyed it 😀

      • Sherbet

        I’m enjoying it, too.

    • flyonthewall

      *old man voice* well in my day we’d show those BT’s what for and say “get outta here you horn-swagglin’ varmints before I blast you one in the keester!” Scientologists nowadays got no respect for their BT’s. Don’t know how to talk to ’em. They ain’t never gonna blow lest you communicate right! Send them so n so’s back to their Mars implant station g-d it I tell you what!

      • Sherbet

        “Let me tell ya, we worked our asses off. Kids today, they don’t know how to work their asses off. They only show their asses off.”

        • Observer

          There’s no need to diss Johnny!

          • Sherbet

            Ha! No need at all!

          • flyonthewall

            there’s always a need to diss Johnny. Keeps his butt from swelling

    • Observer

      That’s why Jeff is such a great interviewer. When people are rambling they say things they may not have thought of or had opportunity to say in a more structured format.

      • Sherbet

        Yes, he reins them in in a respectful and intelligent way.

        • Editing on the fly.
          Yet every edit reveals more about the editor than the author.

    • Lots of Hubbard’s lectures are like that too, btw.
      No offence to Ron Miscavige Sr. Your comment just reminded me of that.

      • Sherbet

        Hubbard had that awful voice that puts the listener to sleep. Ron Miscavige sounds not too unlike Dave — sort of street-wise and intense. No offense to Ron, either.

        • JJ

          Unless flicks of spit landed on you in the front six rows…

          • Sherbet

            That’s funny. Gross, but funny.

        • Gus_Cox

          The Philly accent is hard to shake 🙂

          Luckily, Ron, Sr. doesn’t modulate his voice in that annoying way Dave does, which He was probably taught by Jeff Pomerantz.

          The Fatman sounded smug. Annoying as hell.

    • Apart from “Ruthless” Ron has also written and (self) published two books (one with his wife). They employ the same anecdotal style – and tell stories from his youth – as in this interview.
      https://www.amazon.com/Ron-Miscavige/e/B00N8IZZ0G/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1486599948&sr=8-2-ent

      • Sherbet

        That’s right; I had forgotten. I knew about one of them. I think Tony mentioned it some years ago, and we were disappointed it wasn’t a tell-all. But “Ruthless” came along eventually anyway.

    • A good listener/interviewer let’s people complete their thoughts.

      • J. Swift

        I could listen to Ron Miscavige’s stories all day. He is a delight to interview and he doesn’t pull any punches. I really like Ron and Becky.

        • Sherbet

          It sounded like you were about to (listen all day). I’m just teasing Ron in absentia. His stories are interesting, if a bit convoluted. I’ll blame scientology for that. But you are good at what you do.

          • J. Swift

            Thank you. When I was in sales all those years I learned to carefully listen to my clients and take notes. People will tell you many things if you just let them talk. My guests, particularly those who were Sea Org, lived through hell. I respect them and their stories. Part of what I want to do is to help contribute to the oral history of Scientology as told by the people who lived it.

            I would like to do a really different type of television series on Scientology. This could happen.

            • Sherbet

              You’re careful to remove yourself from the emotion, so that you don’t insinuate yourself into the story. Good job, really. Not everyone is that sensitive to the interviewee.

            • TexasBroad

              “People will tell you many things if you just let them talk” — so very true! Not just even in an interview or in a sales environment…in the course of life, it is amazing what people will tell a good listener.

            • OOkpik

              “I would like to do a really different type of television series on Scientology. This could happen.”
              OOoooh – Quick, pass the smelling salts.

            • thetastic

              Your interviews are my favorite medium of consuming the truth about scientology. Thank you for what you do.

      • JJ

        I hate interviewers who are so clearly only interested in their own voice! Why do interviews, give lectures if all you want to do is talk…

        • Sherbet

          Tony has been interviewed by radio personalities such as that. They’re so busy being personable and cute, that they step on Tony’s story.

          • JJ

            Frustrating for audience!

            • Sherbet

              Yes. Not good entertainment, either.

      • Sherbet

        That’s Jeff.

        • Yeah. I wanna tell ya I’m so a fan of letting people go where they want to go.
          For good or ill.

          • JJ

            Ted Koppel owed it… Just let him keep talking, you got the only interview DM is gonna give… or one of two?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    O/T
    Federal civil rights laws and the protection of minorities in the US must now rely on
    Jeff Sessions, US Attorney General and racist fossil.
    That this happen during Black History Month adds insult to injury.

    DeVos, Carson, Sessions, …
    At least Trump is intellectually consistent in his choices – the consistence of Fian’s
    baby mush.
    There’s a reason he won’t disclose his school transcripts.
    Reports of his intelligence, like those of a Bowling Green massacre, are greatly
    exaggerated,

    The dismantling of democracy proceeds apace.
    Xenu help young black men now.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/81ca27c496e211110a67a8e49c72170093072d846a60680ddc7713b37adf4bca.jpg

    • Frodis73

      Ugh.

    • “The dismantling of democracy proceeds apace.”
      Insert the “all it takes for evil to triumph….” quote.
      Shame on everyone who does nothing about this.

      • JJ

        The holocaust didn’t just happen… It is step by mindless teeny step. Oh this is O.K. is is about safety, or health, national unity or national security… So what if it violates a few laws…

    • flyonthewall

      on the bright side, Trump could just drop dead any minute. People die all the time. He could just go to sleep and never wake up. That’s nice

  • JJ

    “War Crimes.” This religious organization engages in activity that can be classified as war crimes, way to go!

    “Whats the focus?” Control, the aim power, the goal money. Bazinga!

    “Why do people stay.” For the same reason they joined, hope of dong better in life. Add new friends and focus, isolation, no money, stay long enough you have no real world experience, possible family members still in, fear of change, giving up on something that you dedicated your life to for such a long time, fear of retaliation… It isn’t that hard to imagine it takes a lot of abuse before you say this is enough. That is true in many bad situations not just a cult setting.

    Listening. Comment on LisaM “she was dead and people didn’t know yet.” I hope to God that does not become true about Shelly.

    “Speaking truth to assumed power…”

    “Sucks the souls out of people…” Scientology The Scavenger of Souls incarnate.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Please forgive this egregious OT, but I had a little giggle over Tony’s lack of enthusiasm for both sources and whether his brain could cope with the joyous figure-of-eight Escheriness of one banning the other.

    “Wikipedia bans Daily Mail as ‘unreliable’ source” – The Guardian

    The editors described the arguments for a ban as “centred on the Daily Mail’s reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism and flat-out fabrication”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/08/wikipedia-bans-daily-mail-as-unreliable-source-for-website

    • The Gruniad, of course, has been wheal noun fur its smelling piss-takes for years.

    • iampissed

      Your using big words again.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Bumfuzzle! 😀

  • And, before I walk down the alley to get some necessities, please to be listening to what just came up on my random play, which I shall be enjoying with you. If this doesn’t make you feel better, we’ll just have to do more:
    Angelique Kidjo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrwRjUue-sY

    • flyonthewall

      gonna go score some crack?? Shouldn’t do that stuff. I heard it messes with the receptacles in yo brain

      • Wu Tang Clam

        Now you tell me?

      • Scored some Founders Dirty Bastard Scotch Style ale and the house salad from
        Vinsetta Garage
        http://vinsettagarage.com/
        Where Eckert and I shared a lunch.
        And my barmaid remembered me, after a year.
        See later for pix of awesome Morgan. Google it.

        • Baby

          I will have one of these to start… I can’t believe I missed this when I lived in the area.. Damn.. Looks like my kind of place..

          THE VINSETTA BURGER PIE — Seasoned ground Vinsetta burger blend, Woodshop MI maple bacon, house cheese blend, smoked cheddar, topped with cool V.B.S., tomatoes, red onion, pickles, shredded romaine. Everything is going to be okay — 12.95

          • Yeah.
            The side house salad was PERFECT!
            And, I’m serious, the barmaid is for real. I can’t believe she’s still there, and remembers me when I walk in.
            We had talked when I first came in and she was looking for a place.
            The upper flat from me was potentially going to be open (one block away from the place), but blah blah didn’t happen.
            2+ years later, I meet up with Eckert at the place, and before he arrives, she’s there (amazing enough) and says “Hi, neighbor” (before he gets there).
            That was warm and cool enough, but then I popped in there tonight, and she was there and remembered me still.
            C’mon. That’s nice.
            So I told her I had just been thinking about her that day….true….because I thought I should have….back at the Eckert lunch….told her to repeat the “Howdy Neighbor” thing when he came so it would have seemed like I was somebody.
            We chuckled.
            Is that too much detail?
            If not, I have more.
            (She moved to Auburn Hills!!!! Can you believe it???? A million miles away!!!!!…..I pointed to my place literally across the street and said…..well you can probably imagine better words than mine…..cause mine didn’t work

            • Baby

              As a former Bartender.. I am absolutely amazed AND impressed. She is worth her weight in gold..

            • Truly genuine. I try not to think she has a “thing” for me, but is just deeply empathetic.
              Although, as I like to falsely claim that my pappy told me (can’t remember where I heard it),

              “Honesty and sincerity are the keys to success in life.
              And once you can fake that you’ve got it made.”

            • Baby

              No wonder what the reason she must be a sweet woman. Plus you are a cutie..xo

              Oh I like that! hahaha

    • Baby

      I read this as ” Walk down the Aisle..hhahaha

      • A girl can dream.

        • Baby

          hahahhaha gasp hahahhaha

    • iampissed

      I really like, but be careful with the body paint, Just ask Buddy Ebsen.

      • Why the “but”?
        There was no skin harmed in the making of this video.
        The Wizard of Oz was a long time ago.

  • Yay! I finally automated my parsing of YouTube videos and cleared out years of backlog. (No, it doesn’t listen to the videos and tag everything said, just from the description.)

    http://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=500

    • TexasBroad

      RMycroft, I like your brain.

      • EmmaDaoust

        It’s that Canadian weather.

      • It is many people’s second favorite organ.

        • TexasBroad

          It’s my first favorite organ, followed by the pituitary gland…and then some other things. Oh, and the spleen is nice.
          When my ex’s dr. informed him they had to remove his spleen (he had idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura), I turned to him and deadpanned “I only loved you for your spleen.”
          This isn’t actually why we divorced.

    • I don’t even pretend I understand, but cool

  • TexasBroad

    It was great to have a day I was able to keep up in the comments, even if only in and out.
    Poignant that Mary shared this morning that it was the 3 year anniversary of losing her son to disconnection on the same day we got the joyous news Mark has finally met his granddaughter and gets to enjoy that connection going forward!
    Dodo had a great idea earlier – that we need a Reconnection List as well! I keep the Jeremy Powers reconnection link handy whenever things get dark here and I need to remember the happier things.

    (((Hugs))) to Mark and many, many, many hugs to Mary and to all who wait.
    http://tonyortega.org/2014/07/04/scientologys-disconnection-policy-foiled-as-jeremy-powers-reunites-with-his-family/comment-page-1/

    • flyonthewall

      you said in and out

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Sometimes In -n- Out is just a drive in.

        • And a cigar is sometimes just a cigar.
          A kiss is just a kiss.
          A sigh is just a sigh
          The fundamental things apply
          As time goes by

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            “You played it for her, you can play it for me! Play it Sam!”

            • Great song. And I LOVE the series of the same name with Judi Dench and old whatsisname Geoffrey Palmer.

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    I wonder how Nation of Islam’s partnership with Scientology is being viewed by this administration?

    • OOkpik

      Probably isn’t.

    • But they ride cool mopeds together for human rights and stuff..

      • SLIM

        I think you’re talking about Sting..

      • And it still didn’t make them cool.

    • If its not fed to him by Bannon he’s clueless.

  • Cornelius Orowitz Bigot

    Aaron Smith Levin interviewed on Porkins Policy Podcast. This is Aaron’s second appearance on the show. Earlier podcast on the same YouTube channel. Great, genuinely interested interviewer. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=te3mUL7Wzys

    • TexasBroad

      Wow. Thanks for sharing – great podcast!

    • madame duran

      Note to Aaron: There was a second mention of sexual abuse in the “Aftermath” series (albeit in passing; it wasn’t elaborated on). Karen De la Carriere mentioned that her son, Alexander, was molested by an older adult male when he was a minor (I think he was 14 at the time?).

  • ‘A utopian vision’: Doc-maker explores the secrets of Scientology

    “My Scientology Movie” will be screened in Victoria, Toronto, Calgary, Salt Spring and Ottawa in select theatres in February, March and April.

    “Salt Spring”?

    • Qbird

      hmmm… I’ve been to Salt Springs, Fla. –not in CA tho, eh.–

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    The new Sea Org body router outfits have just been approved by COB:

    http://cdn77.sadanduseless.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/outfits14.jpg

    • Liberated

      That’s Cybill Shepherd on the left…wow.

    • What is the equivalent term for “camel toe”?

      • DoveAlexa

        Moose knuckle

    • DoveAlexa

      I can feel the guys’ despair!

      Model abuse! MODEL ABUSE!

  • Funny what you might see if you walk down an alley.
    Our British sisteren and brotheren may appreciate more.
    And yes, indeed, a car with a wooden frame.
    The Morgan.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Motor_Company
    Of which I first became aware from the great Peter Sellers movie “The Party”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Party_(film)
    where his pick-up line is “Would you like to go for a ride in my 3 wheeler Morgan?”
    Yes, it came as a 3 wheeler. Indeed.
    I feel very lucky to have seen one in person.
    Did I mention that the frame was made of wood?
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aa4f2a544acd25d606fb2ff36f0cc023a6ef6194482ca6a04484cca9084fb543.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1edf702b687cf306e42f82c7055cfe61d46109e8da189113fd5ce909acd6e3bc.jpg

    • Baby

      OMG.. fabulous Shorp.. brrrrrrrrr.. right now though.. ( There, not here) NO I’m NOT rubbing it in..I’m just thinking in a Convertible..bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrr

  • Tony, please re-post Warrior tomorrow. It will make my day again. And others.

    • A major uplift, indeed.
      There is hope.

  • Repeat.
    AWKWARD
    Oh gee, his own Supreme Court nominee thinks he’s a butthole:
    “WASHINGTON — President Trump on Wednesday lashed out at federal judges considering a challenge to his executive order banning travel from seven predominantly Muslim countries, as his Supreme Court nominee called Mr. Trump’s attacks on the independent judiciary “demoralizing” and “disheartening.””
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0
    And I might want to add: will we see Rump withdraw the nomination?????

  • Sorry, I just have to ask: Where is Skp Press now that we need him?

    • Tony Ortega

      He rage-quit because I quoted Mike Rinder saying that our new president was motivated by money and ego.

      • Yeah, I’m just baiting him because, you know, things are going so well with Trump.

        • Frodis73

          I keep hoping EO from down under will show up too…she was obsessed with trump and I wonder if she feels the same today.

          • You know what roaches do when you turn on the light, right?
            Pleas don’t summon the morons from hell.

            • DoveAlexa

              Just laugh at them, worked wonders with the last one I saw. They ragequit so fast their bodies leave the area before their fingers stop typing.

          • Ella Raitch

            The Australian minority party she supports still feels pretty impressed with itself

        • Missionary Kid

          Unfortunately, Trump has gotten confirmed all the cabinet nominations so far.

          • That is just fine.
            And meaningless against the tide.
            Gravity which yet eludes understanding, is a weak yet pervasive force.
            Who could imagine that water, soft as it is, could carve the Grand Canyon.

            • Missionary Kid

              Drumpf seems to have the same footbullet ability as DM.

      • Yeah, don’t flatter yourself, he rage-quit because of me.

        • DoveAlexa

          😛

      • Graham

        Money and ego. Just like Hubbard. Amazing that someone could see that in Hubbard but be blind to it in Trump.

    • Wu Tang Clam

      He’s out knowing people and never mentioning it.

      • He’s seething, like Donald Rump…..watching Saturday Night Live, CNN, and Seth Meyers compulsiively, so he can tweet about what losers they all are……without actually proving they’re wrong…..

    • Frodis73

      I wonder if he has a twitter account? I will have to go look now.

  • Wu Tang Clam

    OT; Today is the coldest February day in Perth’s recorded history. It’s 19c (66f)

    • -16°C tonight.

      • Wu Tang Clam

        Xenu on a motorbike!

        • Maybe on a snowmobile. It is winter here, and in a couple days we’ll swing into another melt cycle of +8C.

          • Wu Tang Clam

            Get your beach gear ready.

    • Tell Steve Cannon.

    • Frodis73

      You poor (lucky bastard!) thing. It is snowing (again) and cold here. The thing is it was around 62f yesterday. Argh.

      • Hey Fro.get used to the pain.

        “Four old hippies drivin’ in the rain
        I asked for a lift – they said:
        Get used to the pain
        They gonna fix the weather in the world
        Just like Mr. Gore said
        But tell me what’s to be done
        Lord – ’bout the They gonna fix the weather in the world
        Just like Mr. Gore said
        But tell me what’s to be done
        Lord – ’bout the weather in my head?’
        Yeah, you know you are loved.
        Oh geez, thanks for somehow leading me to find this version of the song
        which is unbelievably kick ass. Oh Lord, yes it is.
        http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ek618_donald-fagen-weather-in-my-head-david-letterman_music

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      This is what Perth gets for rejecting Scientology. Just wait til the icebergs appear and the polar bears start to feed on all you SP’s! You’ll beg us to save you but we’ll say it’s too late.

    • Ella Raitch

      1 degree cooler here – a fine summer day on the south coast

    • Juicer77

      Put on a sweater, you big dummy! 😉

  • Baby

    My daughter’s ringtone hahahhah I have to figure out a way to use it. xo baby..

    Scientology-ringtone-938278.mp3 (441.6 KB) Download | Remove

    edit

    OH shit.. how do you get it live? poop

    Help.. She sent it to me and it worked so I copied it and this.. errrrrrgh

    • What is it, Tom Cruise’s laugh?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRbhE3GRiUE

      • Baby

        No.. it goes Scientology is not my favorite cult..OH shoot I forget but it’s good.. sigh..

        but this is an oldie but goodie..

        • Yeah, I don’t remember either, but it was probably good.
          Jimmy 3 will let us know.
          When he stops laughing at us from some bar somewhere….that guy….he thinks he’s so funny ….its not funny Jimmy…..its just not funny…..so stop with the “funny” stuffl…..you hear me???? Its NOT funny….

          • Jimmy3

            Then why did I just fall off my stool?

            • Ben Franklin

              what have you been eating?

  • RedShoeLady

    How about a list of the top grossing celebrities who never entered the cherch of scamology to show how weak TC JT KA JE etc are? How about Meryl Streep-Tom Hanks-Denzel Washington-Dustin Hoffman – Robert DeNiro can you Hollywood people in the know add to this list? People need to know to believe in themselves & recognize their natural talent rather than fall for some penny a word hack’s ideas of using mind control & manipulation to get rich off of other people’s hard earned money driving them mad to boot. I’d like to cuss right now but I’m practicing restraint.

    • Frodis73

      I understand the urge to cuss when it comes to scientology. Sometimes you just have to let it rip.
      As for your other question, it is easier to list the people that have been involved than those that have not. Even when we are talking about recruitment of people off the street, they have only ever been able to suck in a very small percentage of the people they talk to. Most reject it within the first 10 minutes.

    • Missionary Kid

      Of course, there’s all those Oscar awards that Tom Cruise has won, weighed against that list of celebrities. What? Never mind.

  • Frodis73

    OT-for the stoners and the people that love cult/obscure/bad movies:
    This was brought to my attention via God Awful Movies series on YT. The name of the movie is ‘Blood Freak’. It is a pro-Christian, anti-drug (marijuana) flick that does more damage than good. Have any of the movie buffs here seen this? I just know Howdy would have loved this.

    Synopsis and trailer to follow:
    Just back from Vietnam, Herschell (Steve Hawkes) is at loose ends until
    one day he stops to help beautiful Bible-quoting Angel (Heather Hughes)
    fix her car. She takes him home, where her scapegrace sister, Ann (Dana
    Cullivan), immediately plies him with drugs in order to seduce him.
    Instantly addicted, he needs money for his habit and takes a job at a
    turkey farm, where he’s instructed to eat some experimental lab-grown
    turkeys. He does, and undergoes a hideous transformation.
    Throughout the film, director Brad Grinter periodically appears to offer his commentary on the action.[1]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4RMDQxJSAE

    • John Prince

      I trust You’ve seen “Reefer Madness ” ..originaĺly titeled “tell your children” ?

      • Frodis73

        Oh yes. I even had to write a paper on it in a cult film class back in the day. Love that movie,it is so bad, but funny.

  • Dave Reams

    Poor LRH ! He goofed the floof and picked up Trump as a meat body but came to power just as he was nearing the Vistaryl phase of his life, eating TV dinners alone in seclusion with a new David Miscavige running the show. Sad!

    “Salon: Trump is basically a Scientologist: Leah Remini says the president’s hostility toward the media is familiar.”
    http://www.salon.com/2017/02/08/trump-is-basically-a-scientologist-leah-remini-says-the-president_partner/

    “My mission could be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ period. During this period there is a fleeting opportunity for the whole scenario to be effectively derailed, which would make it impossible for the mass Marcabian landing (Second Coming) to take place. The Second Coming is designed, among other things, to trigger a rapid series of destructive events. […]

    I will return not as a religious leader but a political one. That happens to be the requisite beingness for the task at hand. I will not be known to most of you, my activities misunderstood by many, yet along with your constant effort in the theta band I will effectively postpone and then halt a series of events designed to make happy slaves of us all”
    – LRH OT8

    http://www.spaink.net/fishman/ot8b.html

  • Sarah James

    If Ron is talking, somewhere lil davy is throwing a major meltdown. Makes me 🙂

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Oh dear!
    Lee Daniels, Lady Gaga, according to him, everyone gets their ideas from Kuba Ka. He needs to get back on his pre-CO$ meds because his crazy delusions are getting stranger and creepier by the day. SMH
    (refresh)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ad8c38964c16aa7c702ff2adabf2e59e5e2b998df1961b433fdd4a04d8037b89.png

    • madame duran

      Would Kuba Ka’s statement be sue-worthy? Perhaps saying “inspired by” is less liable than “created by” but either way, it’s factually untrue (but truth never got in the way for Scientologists. They’ll just re-create reality to suit themselves and claim everyone else as liars or less creative. Crazy!).

      Seeing his mom explains EVERYTHING.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        His mama wants to sue Lady Gaga for stealing from Kuba’s act for her Super Bowl performance *eyeroll*. Mama is apparently also his lawyer. The CO$ is attracting the cream of the celebrity crop with this lot!

      • Frodis73

        Hmm…maybe he will get to say “see you in court”!

    • Missionary Kid

      He forgot to credit the stage manager that came up with the “flying wires” for Peter Pan, and all previous stage productions. that used them that came at least decades before him,.

    • Frodis73

      Oh my. He is getting more delusional by the minute.

  • Juicer77

    Welcome, newbies and lurkers and under-the-radars. There’s plenty of coffee and tea, and someone usually shows up with snacks. Ask questions, comment, make your voice heard. Or just listen in. We’re cool. f5

    Tony’s latest podcast appearance starts at 45:35 here: http://idobi.com/podcast/253-havok-the-upset-victory-tony-ortega/ https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4b56f2edd4dd276a2d5dee73dbb2f3e55d93f1fb26db5980e48620241b87c061.jpg

  • Every Scientologist needs to listen to this lecture. Oh my life – So glad I’m living through it. Hugs Thur guys and again for Tony. Thx u so much 🙂