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L. Ron Hubbard on the run: When the Daily Mail was hounding Scientology’s founder in ’66

dailymail66b

 
Last week, we shared a treat with you that had been dug up by one of our helpful correspondents, a February 14, 1966 Daily Mail story that called Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard’s academic credentials bogus.

Hubbard, for example, claimed to have graduated with a degree from George Washington University, but records there showed he left with failing grades after three semesters and never took a degree. The article also pointed out that Hubbard was calling himself “doctor” based on a Ph.D. from a diploma mill.

A few weeks after that Daily Mail article and pretty clearly because of it, on March 8, 1966 Hubbard took out an ad in The Times renouncing the use of the title “doctor.”

Today, we have for you the Daily Mail’s coverage of that, as well as another piece from the same publication later that year recording Hubbard’s deportation from Rhodesia.

My word, the Daily Mail was all over the Hubster in 1966, wasn’t it!

And that may help explain why, that year, he began to formulate his plan to abscond from England and take his movement oceanward in 1967. For the next eight years, as “Commodore,” Hubbard ran Scientology from sea, keeping away from the long reach of the U.S. and British governments.

Thanks to our helpful researcher, here are these two fine pieces from 1966. We hope you enjoy them.

 

Don’t call me Doctor any more
Says the man The Mail exposed
By Richard Whitehead [March 9, 1966]

Lafayette Ron Hubbard, founder of the world-wide psychological cult called Scientology, stopped being a “doctor” yesterday.

He renounced the title in a 15-line advertisement in The Times Personal column, one month after the Daily Mail exposed it as bogus.

A Daily Mail Newsight article showed that his claim to another academic qualification was also a sham.

American-born Mr. Hubbard, 54, has won thousands of followers through the English-speaking world since he founded his cult in 1950. They pay from £2 to £360 for tuition courses.

 
Courses

For the past seven years he has been based at Saint Hill Manor, near East Grinstead, Sussex, formerly the home of the multi-millionaire Maharajah of Jaipur, which he has turned into his international headquarters with a staff of 200. Mr. Hubbard’s £15 15s. Times advertisement said:

‘I, L. Ron Hubbard…having reviewed the damage being done in our society with nuclear physics and psychiatry by persons calling themselves “Doctor,” do hereby resign in protest my university degree as a doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.), anticipating an early public outcry against anyone called “Doctor”: and although not in anyway connected with bombs or “psychiatric treatment” or treatment of the sick, and interested only and always in philosophy and the total freedom of the human spirit, I wish no association of any kind with these persons and do so publicly declare, and request my friends and the public not to refer to me in any way with this title.’

In the past Mr. Hubbard claimed that his Ph.D. degree was awarded by Sequoia University. But there is no accredited university of that name in the U.S.

He has also claimed a Civil Engineering degree of George Washington University, and the letters C.E. are printed after his name on his stationery. He was a student at his university for 18 months, but did not graduate.

Another qualification he has claimed is that of Doctor of Scientology.

Mr. Hubbard was not available last night. His personal assistant, Mr. Reg Sharpe, said he was abroad on holiday, and not to be disturbed. He said: “In future we shall refer to him as Mr. Hubbard, or as Lafayette Ron Hubbard, or simply as Ron.”

 
Heaven

As a Scientologist, Mr. Hubbard has made many claims in books and bulletins for followers. Among these are that he has twice visited Heaven, that it is possible to “process” the mind back to previous lives, and that he has succeeded in separating the human spirit from the body (“probably the greatest discovery of Scientology”).

Last December Scientology was outlawed by the State of Victoria, Australia, after an inquiry branded its methods there as “evil.”

In the Commons on February 7, the Health Minister, Mr. Kenneth Robinson, refused to order a similar investigation in Britain, though he said he would be prepared to consider “any demand” for an inquiry if he received one.

 
dailymail66c

 

‘Trip to Heaven’ man told: Get out
By Peter Younghusband
Salisbury, Wednesday [July 14, 1966]

Lafayette Ron Hubbard, founder of the world-wide cult of Scientology, has been declared a prohibited immigrant in Rhodesia.

He has been ordered to leave the country by Monday, although he waged his own campaign in support of Mr. Ian Smith’s rebel Government.

The authorities believe he is using the current political situation to expand his movement.

 
Followers

Mr. Hubbard, 54, who has invested nearly £30,000 to show his “confidence” in the country and its Government, refused to comment on the expulsion order.

Last February, Mr. Hubbard’s activities in Britain were investigated by the Daily Mail.

Multi-millionaire Mr. Hubbard has thousands of followers in the English-speaking world who pay from £2 to £360 for his tuition courses.

He has made many claims in books and bulletins for followers, among them that he has visited Heaven twice, and has succeeded in separating the human spirit from the body.

Last September, Scientology was outlawed by the Australian State of Victoria after an inquiry branded its methods as “evil.”

In the Commons earlier this year, the Minister of Health, Mr. Kenneth Robinson, refused to order a similar investigation in Britain.

Mr. Hubbard arrived in Rhodesia early in May from Johannesburg, where he had flown in January 1966 after “a third bout of pneumonia following which my doctors advised me to leave Britain” — according to a newspaper interview in Salisbury.

After completing business in Johannesburg, he returned to Rhodesia, bought a large house in Salisbury’s most fashionable suburb for £16,500, and began to hold Scientology meetings in it.

He bought the Bumi Hills Hotel on Lake Kariba for a song — it had cost £30,000.

He planned to develop it into a game lodge.

 
Sympathy

Mr. Hubbard lost no opportunity to get publicity. Apart from issuing Scientologist literature to anyone interested, he made special efforts to ride the crest of the present political wave, apparently to ingratiate himself with White Rhodesians and their Government.

He never lost an opportunity to praise the Smith Government, to drive home the point that he was making substantial investment in Rhodesia, and to express his sympathy for the cause of White Rhodesians.

But the Rhodesian authorities watched him suspiciously, and were investigating his past and present activities.

Mr. Hubbard was restricted to a month-to-month resident permit which was due for review on July 18. It will not now be renewed.

Rhodesian authorities formed the view that Hubbard was playing on Rhodesian emotions to serve his own ends — to swell the membership of his Scientology cult.

Scientology had made striking progress in Rhodesia recently, in the city of Bulawayo, with a population of 45,000 whites, the cult netted an annual return of £10,000.

Rhodesia’s police investigators studied the methods used by the cult. Its lecturers played on the fears, emotions and beliefs of people here to bring them to membership.

In particular, the racial prejudices of Rhodesians were exploited. They were told, for instance, that Africans could not qualify for membership of the Institute of Scientology, because their IQ was too low.

 
Furious

The director of the Scientology Institute in Bulawayo, Mr. John Kennedy, was responsible for much of the cult’s success in Rhodesia.

All went well until Mr. Kennedy, probably impressed by the amount of money he was making for Mr. Hubbard, decided to branch out with a movement of his own — the Institute of Mental Health, headquarters of which he set up in Johannesburg.

The Scientologists were furious for Mr. Kennedy took with him a large slice of their paying members.

Mr. Kennedy died in a shooting incident. It was said he shot himself accidentally while cleaning his revolver. An open verdict was returned by the coroner.

 
“Apart from issuing Scientologist literature to anyone interested, he made special efforts to ride the crest of the present political wave, apparently to ingratiate himself with White Rhodesians and their Government.”

Sounds like our Ron!

As we pointed out last year, Scientology today has a very different take on Hubbard’s Rhodesian gambit.

But it’s nice to get some additional support for the real version of what happened. And wow, did the Daily Mail sort of not very shyly suggest that Hubbard had a breakaway leader bumped off?

Harsh!

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on November 10, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Ella Raitch

    The authorities believe he is using the current political situation to expand his movement.

    !!!!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      A pu**y-grabbing, tax-cheat.

      Hmmm??

      • Ella Raitch

        A touch assisting, tax exempt?

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          ROFL!!

    • Juicer77

      “ride the crest of the current political wave.” Saw that, too.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    White Rhodesia was an international pariah.
    It was a basket of deplorables.
    Hubbard must have felt so at home.

    These articles are a treat.

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    “‘Trip to Heaven’ man told: Get out”

    *Snortle*

    • BosonStark

      And after going to Heaven twice, he made his last trip to the implant station on Mars instead, for the research opportunities.

  • BosonStark

    So he resigned the degree he never earned. With such noble character as that, I’m surprised he never ran for president. Even without a background in running casinos, it seems like it would have been worth the gamble and somehow constitute having an education (in fleecing).

  • OOkpik

    Is it any surprise that Ron got booted out of Heaven—twice ?

    • Surprising that someone let him in the second time.

      • OOkpik

        The second time was when he was caught red-handed during a covert operation to destroy all the records of his sins.

      • DoveAlexa

        He was wearing a fake mustache.

  • Juicer77

    Things I love about these clippings:
    1) price mentioned Hubbard paid for ad: 15 pounds, 15 shillings
    2) seeing the “c” word in print! (cult)
    3) Hubbard’s ad is so typically worded. He twists being found out as a liar into nobly renouncing his honors to stay ahead of public opinion. LOL
    4) Has the Nation of Islam seen these? The phrase “White Rhodesia” makes you shudder.
    5) Waiting for our intrepid researchers to to uncover any dirt about the “shooting accident” story.

    • SarahDB

      not to mention the assurances that black Africans have lower iqs

      • salin

        Sadly that sort of talk, among some of our fellow citizens, has been regaining fashion. *hurling*

        • SarahDB

          too depressing, a friend who is Jewish got called a kike on twitter yesterday

          • salin

            *heavy sigh* it’s hard to keep trying to dwell in hope while witnessing such outcroppings and gleeful slinging of hatred.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Hubbard (all quotes between 1952 and 1968);

        * Actually, have you ever noticed how a Negro, in particular down south, where they’re pretty close to the soil, personifies MEST? The gate post and the wagon and the whip and anything around there. A hat — they talk to ’em, you know. “Wassa madda wit you, hat?” They imbue them with personality.

        * The South African native is probably the one impossible person to train in the entire world, he is probably impossible by any human standard.

        * The insanity rate per capita in South Africa is appalling. it is easily seen that a primary requisite in any programme of the rehabilitation of the Bantu in South Africa would be mental health.

        * They took people who were totally dedicated to certain tribal procedures and said, “You’re free.” And they said, “Free. Free? Free. Ah! You mean there’s no police anymore.” Boom! Boom!

        * The Zulu is only outside the bars of a madhouse because there are no madhouses provided by his tribe. Primitives are far more aberrated than civilized peoples. Their savageness, their unprogressiveness, their incidence of illness.

        And a bonus;

        * Now we say there’s, well, another place in the world there’s India. Wonderful place except for its people.

        • kemist

          *wipes vomit from mouth*

          A wonderful gentleman, that Hubbard.

          • LongtimeLurker

            “Wassa madda wit you, hat?” clearly said by someone who had never seen an African American outside Gone With The Wind.

        • Mockingbird

          Alt right og.

        • Mockingbird

          He’s positively presidential.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Good one.

            • Mockingbird

              Laugh or cry. There will be a lot of crying.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            silly you! don’t you know the new line is we are supposed to take him seriously, but nothing he says literally!…. it’s the new bumper stick for our reality show president elect!

            • ExCult.Jan

              My “NO TRUMP” (in style of ‘coexist’) bumper sticker is staying on my car until the next election.

          • SP Wannabe

            Mockingbird, you gave me such an unexpected laugh, I’ve now got the hiccups! (Is there an emoticon appropriate here? I’m behind the times.)

            • Mockingbird

              I don’t know.

        • PJK

          Strangely enough I used to say that about France: Wonderful place except for the French.

          Does this make me a Francist?

          • LongtimeLurker

            Well since that’s a culture, not a race, I think you were just a regular bigot, like the rest of us.

            But I’m happy to call you Francist if you want.

          • April

            No, you’re a Frankophobe

          • daisy

            ikh

        • SarahDB

          this gives me the willies

          • LongtimeLurker

            I actually left some out for space.

        • Anony-Lurker

          “Primitives are far more aberrated than civilized peoples. Their savageness, their unprogressiveness, their incidence of illness.” – Hubbard.

          Well, I guess that was just definitively proven wrong!

        • Princess Squishy
      • Xenu’s son.
        • PJK

          Hasn’t the USA tumbled down a few percentage points in the last few days?

          • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

            A few? Sorry. I love America and 99%+ of Americans, even most of the ones who voted a way that I would not have. Every organization, every culture has a zenith and a low point. Here’s hoping.

        • SarahDB

          why does someone even try to do this? and who makes up the iq test? to me, this is bogus: I would want to see how these statistics were collected…no one gives out iq tests to their entire populations

      • Juicer77

        I can’t facepalm big enough for that one.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      Number 4 was my first thought after reading also? Like, you guys SURE you want to stay connected with CO$ knowing what “source” thought of ANYone that wasn’t within his white, cushy, worldview?

  • Jeb Burton

    Its articles like this that make me excited for the First Church of Independent Scientology.

  • beetee

    Any chance you can post the entire “don’t call me Doctor” .newspaper article here today?

    • Chee Chalker

      Isn’t that a Pearl Jam song?

  • salin

    As I was reading about the John Kennedy splinter group, I thought to myself: “I don’t recall reading this before…” then – Kabloowie! Yes, dear proprietor, the Mail did just implicate an assassination as an open question.

    • Juicer77

      For heaven’s sake, if you search for info on “John Kennedy Assassination” make it more specific!! Ugh.

      • Ella Raitch

        ? I think Salin is referring to Scientologist John Kennedy who died by his gun after forming a Scientology splinter group, and the coroner returned an open verdict

        • salin

          I was – and indeed so fascinated with the side story, that I didn’t put together the connection between JFK and assassination and Rhodesian John Kennedy and implied assassination. Doh! *sauntering to the coffee pot for a second cup*

        • Peter

          One does not “accidentally” kill oneself cleaning a revolver. A semi auto is more of a possibility, but a revolver doing so is nonsense.

        • Juicer77

          I made a not-so-funny. I shall now retire to the corner in shame. 😉

          • Ella Raitch

            I’m too brain dead to see the funny….I will join you in the shame corner 🙂

            • Princess Squishy

              I’ll bring my emotional support animal Mr. Pickles the Chrysalis. I was very confuzzled by this thread and I also need the shame corner.

      • salin

        Grassy Knoll!!!!

        • Umbrella man! (forgive me – I have just learned about that nonsense)

          • salin

            Not big into unraveling those conspiracy theories… I, too, just learned of umbrella man. Like, just now – running to wikipedia for a quick reference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrella_man_(assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy)

            • Ella Raitch

              What a wonderful account

            • That entry describes the theory that the umbrella fired a dart, tainted with a paralysing agent, into Kennedy so that he made a easier target for the sniper – a notion that it says was endorsed by Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty

              This is the same Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty who proposed that L Ron Hubbard’s war record was a ‘sheep dipped’ fiction, and that Ron was actually an intrepid intelligence agent, not a totally useless junior officer at all.

              Even the BBC fell for that one, back in 1987, in a radio programme (which is redeemed by its interviews) called “Ruthless Adventure”, about the life of L Ron Hubbard https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/ruthless-adventure-how-scientology-played-the-british-broadcasting-corporation/

              Small world, isn’t it?

            • SarahDB

              sounds like someone watched a few too many spy shows

            • ‘Umbrella Man’ turned up as an example in a book about the psychology of conspiracy theorists I’m currently reading – so I followed Salin’s Wikkipedia link and spotted Prouty, who I had already heard of, when I wrote the post about “Ruthless Adventure” https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/ruthless-adventure-how-scientology-played-the-british-broadcasting-corporation/

              The ‘cultic milieu’ and the culture of fringe beliefs does seem to be a small world in which there is frequently a path that leads back to Scientology, because it has endured for so long and was built out of so many different (stolen) ideas.

            • LongtimeLurker

              How did you not know about Umbrella Man?

              Don’t even get me started on the Three Tramps, the Second Oswald, and Fair Play For Cuba!

            • salin

              Great find. *speechless*.

        • Juicer77

          Polka dot dress!!!

        • Gus_Cox

          Babushka Lady!

  • salin

    As for the renouncing thing…

    My only direct exposure to Scientology (despite being a young working adult in two Co$ hot-bed areas of the country) was through the TV volcano late-night ads. The only thing that nominally interested me was that the ads referred to all of the areas of the author’s expertise and then the PhD at the end of his name. I would think… “sounds like a smart guy”… and then not think of it again until the next time I saw the ad. The thought never got me to act, but somehow that impression and LRon Hubbard, PhD stayed in my memory.

    Maybe folks stopped calling him Dr Hubbard, but the bogus degree, at right after his death, was certainly used to ad heft to the Scieno-promotional materials.

  • Those were the days – when newspapers sold in massive numbers and reporters had the resources to research stories, get the facts right, and not be deterred by the prospect of litigation.

    Since then, the Internet has provided a better platform for content, and undermined their business model (which was based on advertising). There are now very few papers that are not reduced to paraphrasing press releases and getting stuff wrong because they don’t have the time, money or people to get it right.

    What we need is a new breed of Internet-based journalists with a novel business model. I wonder if such people exist?

    • Peter

      Wouldn’t you say Wikileaks qualifies? And Tony? And Mike?

      • Yes – that was kind of a rhetorical question, at the end.

        • DoveAlexa

          Get Tony on Patreon?

        • LongtimeLurker

          I got it.

      • ze moo

        Wikileaks can be bought or rented by just about anyone. Russia did a great hack job and false flag operation on Hillary. Content is now king, and many will jump at any carrot dangled in front of them.

      • Mirnaminkoff

        Wikileaks is not journalism, unless you want to count it as part of the Russia Today conglomerate.

    • David Arum

      It was during the golden age of newspapers that the COS also had its golden age.

      • The story which is the subject of today’s post appeared for one day, and was then used for wrapping Cod and chips. If you wanted to refer to it, you would have to visit the newspaper’s archive and retrieve it. There was no search function.

        During the period he lived at Saint Hill Hubbard got a proper kicking from the British press, which contributed to his being refused entry to the UK. That’s not bad for an age when News was not persistent, as it is in the age of the Internet.

        • David Arum

          Life for Hubbard was opulent in St Hill before he had to bug out.

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Like my dear old Daddy used to say–
    What a tangled web we weave
    When first we practice to deceive.

    And also like my dear old Daddy used to say–
    What are you getting mixed up with a cult for? Learn a trade!

    • salin

      Wise dear old Daddy.

    • Draco

      I wish I had listened to my dear old Dad.

  • Jack99

    Why hasn’t Davieboy written a similar statement where he resigns as “Captain” in protest to the wars of this world and publicly declare his wish to be never referred to in such a way by friends, journalists or lawyers ever again?

    • OOkpik

      I sent an e-mail to Karin Paow with your inquiry.
      I will let you know if she gets back to me.

  • Richard

    Hubbard’s £15 15s advertisement in the Times is an absolute admission of his doctor status being bogus.

    Why?

    Because if he really did have a doctorate, he wouldn’t have published a spin story in the paper. No, he would have sued the Daily Mail for everything they ever owned.

  • pluvo

    Looks like his conceited resigning of his “Doctor” titles was to prevent future scrutiny of his false pretense.
    Here can be seen that false pretense and blaming others was one of his character traits which was the basis of his ‘scriptures’.
    The hypocrisy shows telling others “to get honest and straight” and depicting himself having moral high ground throughout his life. Everybody who was suspected as a threat to his scam and to expose it was denigrated and labeled and labeled with the character traits Hubbard himself had.

    • DoveAlexa

      ‘Only nasty people could ever be against me, and no one is nastier than me so you must be just like me!’ Is how I imagin his thinking goes.

    • ze moo

      The ‘psychs’ call that projection. Many demagogues use that tactic. We have seen it used successfully in the US in the last year and a half.

  • What’sup
    • LongtimeLurker

      Hi Dr. Nick!

  • ze moo

    “after “a third bout of pneumonia following which my doctors advised me to leave Britain”, as did his Solicitor and the police. And the tax authorities, and the Church of England and just about everyone else.

    A ‘prohibited immigrant’?? Doesn’t Rhodesia know Lron has been to heaven. Ok, he was kicked out of there too, but still, his luggage has the Heaven sticker??

    The UK press used to be good and useful. What happened? The Daily Mail is now just another gossip fish wrapper that has more ‘stories’ and pics on the Kardashins and other fame whores that I don’t go to their web site any more.

    • PJK

      Reading the Daily Mails wikipedia page gives me the impression that The Daily Mail run at LRH must have been a hiccup of actual journalism in the history of the newspaper.

      Its support for fascism in the early 1930’s seems to indicate that the people behind TDM were always on the extreme right wing side of the political spectrum.

    • As I say elsewhere, their business model (based on advertising) was demolished by the Internet and they simply can’t afford to do proper journalism (which required expensive research) any more. Gossip sells, and doesn’t cost much to repeat – especially when it is supplied by publicists.

      The situation is worse in the local press, which once took a lot of income from by small ads, which are not typically free – they finance themselves from adverts by local businesses which are now absurdly expensive for the relatively small audience they reach.

      My local paper now had two (count them two) journalists. The rest is just copied out of press releases, court records and syndicated content. They try their best, but often simply don’t get the facts right, because they don’t have the time to properly look into their story.

  • Mockingbird

    Good racism filled morning Bunkeroos.

    Seeing more details about the racist exploits of Hubbard reminds me of why I sincerely doubted something Jon Atack told me about. He left Scientology and realized it was all a fraud while Hubbard was still alive. He wanted to help Hubbard himself. Jon Atack knew about the abuse and deception built into Scientology and STILL wanted to help the mad old man.

    I felt highly skeptical that Hubbard after seventy plus years of being evil for at least the last thirty or so could be helped. I felt like Hubbard probably wouldn’t face himself with honest self reflection and therefore wouldn’t be able to recover. I don’t know if anyone is absolutely irredeemable but I couldn’t see Hubbard as turning away from evil. I just couldn’t imagine it as possible with everything he had done that was cruel, selfish, callous and narcissistic for so many years.

    In seeing the example of his racism here I can’t help but be reminded of another person that is around seventy years old and has a long history of racism that I frankly can’t see possibly changing, another irredeemable deplorable: president Donald Trump.

  • Robert Hanna Moore

    Scott Adams (Dilbert cartoonist) explains why Trump is president elect.

    1. The social bullying coming from Clinton’s supporters guaranteed that lots of Trump supporters were in hiding. That created the potential for a surprise result, so long as the race was close.

    2. Trump’s powers of persuasion are better than I have ever seen from a living human. That made it likely that the election would be close. And people generally vote for their party’s candidate, so that too promised a close election.

    3. The mainstream media backed Clinton. That created a situation in which she was likely to be ahead at some point near the end of the election cycle.

    4. The business model of the news industry guarantees lots of “scandals” on a regular schedule. Small things get inflated to big things, and I assumed there would be plenty of them. Trump has the skill to overcome medium-sized scandals and bumps in the road. That’s all you need for an entertaining Second Act.

    5. Once I framed this election as a movie script, it primed you to see events that way. Our brains are movie-trained to recognize the three-act form. That’s why all movies use it.

    6. Act One happened when Trump announced he was running. Act Two developed during the primaries and continued to the general election when Trump overcame one medium-sized problem after another. Act Three was defined by the Access Hollywood tape and Trump subsequently falling behind in the polls all the way to Election Day. The Finale was our collective discovery that Trump was right about the polls undercounting his support. It turns out he was Keyser Söze all along – and by that I mean smarter than you thought.

    And that’s your movie.

    I ask Trump supporters not to gloat too much. Be good to your fellow citizens. Be inclusive. Be useful. The country needs you at your best.

    • TonyOrtega

      Sadly, Adams revealed himself to be a wretched human being during this campaign. It’s a little late now for him to try to score points for good behavior.

      • Robert Hanna Moore

        Unaware of that, I just thought it was interesting and I’m grasping for a silver lining.

        • salin

          I understand. Just really slim pickings to sort through to find the silver lining.

          • ze moo

            There is a silver lining. The Repubs are divided into at least 3 groups. Real Tea Partyers, Trumpestias, and a few moderate ones. Getting them on the same page will be like trying to herd cats.

            Now, if only the Democrats can unite and be the check and balance on Trumpy.

            Rudi Giulani for Attorney General?? Brain will now explode….

            • salin

              Not to mention the now total take over by the rwing evangelical churches – who once they got organized (Christian Coalition) at times hijacked the party – have now seen full circle such that some of what gets preached is so political (and now – led by TRUMP) that in some churches it has become something for different than what was preached pre politicization. This from the folks who claim ‘literalist interpretations’ of the bible.

      • Mockingbird

        I am glad you agree. I read a lot of his posts and am somewhat familiar with the NLP writing he incorporated to try to pretend to be neutral while making a case for Trump and against everyone else. He tried to use language tricks and rhetoric to brush aside the claims Trump is a racist , narcissist and liar as false and with no basis.

        But if you read the same ideas Scott Adams did you realize he is using them knowingly. And he supports genocide against Muslims too.

    • Mockingbird

      Trump supporters inclusive !!? The Trump supporters at the Alt right and KKK and Daily Stormer and…are racists, antisemitic and frankly disgusting. David Duke proclaimed that Donald Trump’s victory gives “us” the moral high ground !

      That fucking white supremacist claims the moral high ground ! Fuck that bullshit ! Kids are getting bullied in schools and people that aren’t white are getting told to go back home Haji and shit like that.

      Setting up a cross burning isn’t my idea of useful. It’s deplorable.

    • ze moo

      Hillary has only herself and the leadership of the Democratic party to blame. Why is Obama President {for the 3 months}? Because in 08 the Democratic Party rejected Hillary. The ‘Hope and Change’ Obama sold was supposed to be more about ‘change’ than most people thought. Only problem is that Bill and Hillary control the Democratic party through their fund raising prowess. Obama had to ‘bend the knee’ to get Bill to get the money and support needed to win in 08.

      Too bad the Demos took their eyes off the ball in 2010 and let the Repubs take back congress. Obama might have had a chance to do something if that hadn’t happened.

      Now, will Bill and Hillary step aside and allow new blood to run things? I doubt it, Bill and Hill like being the Dons of the party. A party that has to drag around both of their massive baggage.

      • Mockingbird

        There’s plenty of blame to go around. And Hillary Clinton is too old and too damaged. She really was toxic this time politically. She wasn’t far enough left for progressives and had twenty years of Fox news attacks against her. That’s too much to overcome. Honestly if the republicans ran a normal republican against her and the things the DNC did against Bernie Sanders came out she would have been crushed. How terrible Trump is made the election close.

        Jeb Bush would have beat her like a drum if he just seemed moderate and had no scandals.

        • salin

          Seems like just yesterday when he was perceived to have baggage by being Ws brother. That mattered in the primaries. It ceased to matter when Day-Glo Don the candidate hurled from deplorable proclamation to the next deplorable proclamation by making the memory of W soften, even get a wee bit warm and fuzzy.

          • Robert Hanna Moore

            It’s wild isn’t it? Kahneman’s framing effect at work.

            • salin

              Looked that up. I took a grad class with Tversky (apparently shortly before he passed – I didn’t know that.) He had done some very interesting research on the ‘hot hand’ belief even when having read/looking at statistics that demonstrate otherwise. I bet I still have that course reader in some dusty box or another.

      • ze moo

        Now I see that Rudy Giuliani is going to talk about ‘investigating’ Hillary. Who is going to investigate Trumpys tax return? Who is going to watch his out standing loans from Russian Oligarchs? How is Trumpy going to explain or delay or destroy the Trump University crap?

        When Rudy was mayor of NY, he did 2 good things. Cleaned up Times Square and looked good after 9/11. He didn’t do much but look good and do his job for 9/11, but he tried to get the press to make him ‘Americas Mayor’. Thankfully, few bought that crap. Rudy’s bag man was Bernie Kerik, a now convicted felon. Hey, did Bernie Kerik get to vote in the election? He is a convicted felon??

        • Mockingbird

          You reminded me Trump promised national stop and frisk with racial profiling and he likes private prisons which he will jam pack with black and Latino Americans, just the way he likes it. Minorities as slaves locked up. And corporations profiting off their labor.

          • salin

            And the bonus – disenfranchisement of those voters.

        • salin

          He was on the ‘Trumps Cabinet List’ that was later disconfirmed (real or no?) as Attorney General. Comey’s boss. What a strong man’s revenge ride via the legal system are we about to get taken on?

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          The few times I saw him throughout this campaign, which admittedly was as little as possible after hearing him at the RNC, he looked more and more manic. It became so uncomfortable for me to watch him after awhile I just stopped.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Yeah, hopefully he was just putting it on to appear “high energy”.

            Because if not, there’s something wrong with him.

        • Anony-Lurker

          Ya know, I have this picture in my head of Trump, Giuliani, Bannon and Christie sitting in Trump tower, drinking good Brandy, Smoking expensive Cubans with four 20 year old models on their knees. The four men are laughing.

          It’s not so far fetched.

          • Draco

            Plus Putin makes 5.

      • Anony-Lurker

        I’m not so sure that Hillary has herself to blame. I suppose she was playing this campaign and using the old rules, which have been in effect since the beginning. Who ever thought that the rules of the game would change so radically in such a short time. Yet she became the perfect scapegoat, all problems both domestic and international going back forever magically became Clinton and Obama’s fault.

        I suppose the people could never forgive America for electing a black president.

        I saw a Trump supporter outside a small rally where Bill Spoke in July. She (about 40 years old) held up a large sign which said: “Kill the Nigger and Kill the Bitch”…just awful.

    • Mockingbird

      In the alt right world being a racist or antisemitic or supporting one and being called out on it is bullying. But they can’t stand how sensitive other people are.

      If you are a racist then denial is your defense and anyone that doesn’t support that denial is somehow a bully. Scott Adams takes the position of a racist that denies racism at every turn.

      • Robert Hanna Moore

        In the alt right world being a racist or antisemitic or supporting one and being called out on it is bullying.
        I thought he was referring to Trump supporters having their hats knocked off and signs torn up and the homeless woman assaulted for protecting Trump’s Hollywood star. Factions on both sides were verbally and physically abusive. That’s bullying.

    • Anony-Lurker

      Throughout the campaign, I kept saying that I felt like I was watching a well planned and executed theatrical production, the people I know thought I was crazy and some conspiracy nut.

      Well I still think so, more than ever. I’m wondering if Clinton ever really had a chance from the beginning?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    O/T One last foray into the swamp and then I’ll behave

    If the election had been a gig:

    Breaking News November 10th , 2016
    Live from the Fillmore Yeast, NYC

    Orange
    You Glad ?

    with our music correspondents, John Caged and Atonal Andi

    Opening act, Hilly with Ovaries of Steel
    After an interminable tuning-up of their instruments – a Con certo
    in F Minor on off-key banjo and didgeridoo with Slick Willie, the
    Sax Machine, supporting – finally they began.
    Somewhat woodenly.
    They followed with some fresh material –

    Private E-Mail Server Blues
    Pneumonia Moan
    I Got The Apolitical Blues

    And finally their hits –
    Benghazi Babes
    Whitewater Grafting
    Internsive Care

    And then their grand finale – their stadium-rock classic
    In an incandescent version –
    The Scar-Strangled Spammer

    Their newest hits are available on-line or in vinyl (on 45’s only, not lps.)

    Headliners Donny T. and the The Heelspur Gropers
    played a short hard-hitting set of their best known tunes-
    I’m Feeling Alt-Right
    The Wall
    Lock Her Up ( a well-known DM cover)
    Grate Again, Bigly

    The finale included his trousers bursting into flame.

    The mosh pit of pensioners rattled their false teeth.
    Blue-collar Billionaires for Don the Con rattled their jewelry in both their private boxes.
    KKK cone heads shook their sheets and dreamed of strange fruit.
    Bannon and Ailes were seen in tender loving embrace. With each other.
    And the seething writhing tattooed mass of angry betrayed humanity howled their approval.
    The Donald is expected to have ’78s and 8-track tapes available next year.
    Xenu’s spavined camel, but this has been a painful process.
    Worse than exiting Co$?
    No, but pretty damn bad.

    (Although Donny T. Has a con tract with the Déplorables,
    a death-metal skinhead collective from the shtetls of Idaho,
    he has a release clause that allows side-projects.
    “He’s gonna need all the release clauses he can muster once
    the IRS and the NY DA are done with his impeachment,” said an anony-
    mous (and probably corrupt) source close to the corridors of power.
    The reference was most likely to Trump U., the Trump Foundation,
    his wife’s abuse of her non-working visa, very iffy tax avoidance schemes
    (okayed by that Fred Goldberg!), assorted other nefarious practices,
    and ultimately based on first principles that he is an obnoxious xenophobic
    racist and self-centered lying birther misogynist whose very existence is an
    affront to the species.

    Karin Puow was busy, on a spiritual septic tank pilgrimage,
    and was unable to respond to our request for comments.
    She IS acclaimed as one of the world’s leading experts on malevolent
    solipsistic narcissists)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2fcc272df78b0d9648687e168ec3b963bcde76e1482140c08e4c91a68a314f1b.jpg

  • LongtimeLurker

    OT (see how I did that?)

    Scott Adams (Dilbert cartoonist) on how to treat women when they complain about the (apparently imaginary) wage gap, in the US the “American Matriarchy” (<< his words);

    The reality is that women are treated differently by society for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally handicapped are treated differently. It’s just easier this way for everyone. You don’t argue with a four-year old about why he shouldn’t eat candy for dinner. You don’t punch a mentally handicapped guy even if he punches you first. And you don’t argue when a women tells you she’s only making 80 cents to your dollar. It’s the path of least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles.

    • Mockingbird

      I haven’t seen this one. Is his point to suggest we ignore women and their problems ? WTF he is worse than I already knew !

      • LongtimeLurker

        You maybe didn’t see it because he bravely deleted it the next day.

        I think it’s a double point;

        1 – Ignore women and their (made up, according to him) problems.

        2 – Women aren’t real people like men, they’re closer to unreasonable children or the mentally handicapped.

        Get the impression Scott doesn’t date a lot?

        • Mockingbird

          I heard he is rich so that alone should get him attention.

    • I bought a book of his in a charity shop, once, being stuck for something to do while waiting for a delivery of building materials to a friend’s house.

      It was called “Dilbert Future: Thriving on Stupidity in the 21st Century” – a set of comic ‘predictions’ occasionally illustrated by some of his cartoons.

      On page 246 he writes:

      It is possible to control your environment through your thoughts or steer your perceptions (or soul if you prefer) […] The process [involves] visualizing what you want and writing it down fifteen times in a row, once a day until you obtain the thing that you visualized

      I waited for the punchline… in vain. He actually seems to believe this, and ascribes his success as a cartoonist to such “Affirmations.”

      It’s apparently ‘small world day’ today. Not only did L Ron Hubbard try to ‘improve himself by writing ‘affirmations’ https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/l-ron-hubbards-affirmations-admissions/ but Ron Miscavige still believes in that nonsense https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2016/06/20/it-works-by-rhj-wishful-thinking-in-fringe-ideas-and-its-influence-on-scientology/

      Scott Adams is good cartoonist, but otherwise evidently not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

      • Mockingbird

        He is heavily into NLP. Another harmful fraud like Scientology.

        • I’m glad we agree about that. I recall NLP once found its way into the TV programme CSI

          In one episode Gruesome Grissom explains how he knew that a suspect was lying – according to NLP, the character stated, you look to the left when remembering and to the right when fabricating.

          Well… it may have been the other way around, but it doesn’t matter, because the whole thing was complete nonsense in any case – as is ‘Neuro-linguistic programming’.

          Those few lines marred a programme that was otherwise respected science just about as much as is possible in popular fiction.

          • Mockingbird

            Yeah. If you just dig into the history and claims of NLP it is obviously a cousin to Scientology in that it’s also a method with covert hypnosis combined with bits from psychology and pseudoscience. It has broad unprovable claims and lots of red flags that it involves magical thinking and impossible medical claims.

            It’s like Scientology if Hubbard flat out told auditors they were trying to control minds covertly instead of fooling the auditor and the patient too.

        • salin

          NLP… man, you two are introducing a lot of new information to me today.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Jesus. Way to magical think, Scott.

        • There I was, sitting on a pile of bags of building sand, with this book in my hand, thinking ‘he can’t be serious’… and finally having to admit that he was.

          It was a weird experience.

          • LongtimeLurker

            I bet!

  • Chee Chalker

    Hmmmm Shelly Miscavige’s mother also died in a mysterious gun accident where she managed to shoot herself with a shotgun more than once
    Or was it a rifle?

    I forget but boy are those scientologists clumsy with a gun!

    • PickAnotherID

      Rifle.

    • Tony Ortega
      • cinfrance

        Keep looking at this please Tony.
        And at Hubbard’s own death – and at Hubbard’s TOTALLY fraudulent Will. Why haven’t serious journalists cottoned on to that? It’s surely a totally amazing story, v. nearly the last great $ci story I’d say.

      • MarcabExpat

        Everybody should read this if they haven’t already, even with the lack of ultimate forensic closure in the case. A must-read in Scientology history. This is the context in which Shelly Miscavige accepted banishment by her husband. Mind-boggling.

      • Chee Chalker

        Thank you for the link. Very very scary.
        My (now ex thank God) brother in law was a hunter and he owned some rifles. (I’ll give him some credit, he had them in a safe, which was in a locked room. He’s still an idiot, but for other reasons)
        Anyhoo….he was showing me his collection one day and I was amazed at how big and heavy rifle bullets are.
        There is just no way someone could shoot themselves more than once (never mind three times) with one of those things.

  • In 1966, Hubbard writes this:

    HCOPL 28 Feb 1966, Danger Condition Data – Why Organizations Stay Small

    Ron says, “A LARGE ORGANIZATION IS COMPOSED OF GROUPS.” And, “A GROUP IS A PROPER SIZE WHEN THE INDIVIDUAL IN IT CAN EASILY APPROACH THE MANAGER OF THAT GROUP ON A FAMILIAR, FRIENDLY BASIS….”

    Three months later, disappears off to Rhodesia…

  • pluvo

    I think that to compare now frequently Hubbard with Trump, also understandable after all emotional and what has happened, is somehow … I don’t know how to explain it and can’t find the the right word … just.. I feel slowly “over-trumped”.

    • Mockingbird

      Imagine being gay and losing your rights, a Muslim and being deported, a woman and losing your rights, a kid who gets poisoned because Trump disbanded the EPA and a chemical plant dumps toxic chemicals into your water, a union member who gets a fifty percent wage cut because Trump signed a national right to work law and eliminated the minimum wage, a person who loses their insurance and has a preexisting condition so they can’t get insurance again.

      People fought and died for the rights we have now and they are about to be torn away from more than half the people in the country. The vulnerable will be crushed .

      • Robert Eckert

        Trump will do far more damage than Hubbard because he has power over a larger number.

        • Mockingbird

          BINGO. That’s why taking him on has become my number one priority. I know people that are going to meet to discuss strategies. Under Trump a resistance must form. We at least need to have persistent massive civil disobedience. If we don’t stand together we will fall apart.

          • salin

            When we first met (here 1.5 years ago =/-) I think I told you that I was both fascinated and horrified by what I was learning about Co$, but I was really interested in some of the mechanisms of thought-stopping and other mind-control type rhetorical methods. Your writings on your blog, your sharing of your new understandings as you were reading/learning/recovering have been a trove of insight.

            My interest then, and now, has been to understand how some of this was happening on a mass media level in the political arena. I didn’t then realize how much further it would go (the mass media – now including rally/physical hysteria) in the upcoming election. Share and use the information you have learned on your journey out, with those would work with. Peace to you Mockingbird. And another round of thank yous.

            • Mockingbird

              Thanks. I just found out from Steven Hassan something useful. At the rallies Trump had he could have several people hired in the crowd. At key points in the Trump speech a person planted in the crowd YELLS out something that prompts a reaction from the rest of the crowd.

              Trump had massive rallies and kept getting crowds stirred up. He knew he could win with them if he had plants that called out and acted enthusiastic that would make others join in and it seems normal to be enthusiastic about Trump.

            • salin

              A more subtle form of the role of Sea Org (and staff?) at events, cuing (intimidating?) members to stand up and cheer, perhaps?

            • Mockingbird

              That’s so routine cult members don’t even realize they are manufacturing consent. They just think they re being up tone.

            • Mockingbird

              By the way if you want to read regarding politics the books Age Of Propaganda and Cialdini’s Influence are great. I am getting into George Lakoff too.

        • Mockingbird

          I was happy to see the protests have begun. We need to get like the protests during the Vietnam war and not stop.

          • Anony-Lurker

            The 60’s were a horrible and scary time. I remember as a kid waking up each morning and never knowing what to expect. More cities burning, another assassination etc.
            I’m also glad to see the protests starting but this time, I don’t think they’ll do much good…or I just getting older and more cynical.

            • Mockingbird

              Nixon gave in on a lot. He was scared the protesters would get him. He gave in on lots of legislation for social programs.

              Trump is probably not sane enough to reliably manipulate. Putin is not even aware how unstable Trump is or he would not touch him. He sees Trump as a useful idiot, meaning someone stupid yiu can manipulate. But Trump could turn on him and that would be a disaster.

              Narcissists aren’t easily manipulated because they have an inner world that has fragile hidden dynamics, bits and pieces that they don’t show anyone. They can be offended by little things and some decompensate into florid schizophrenia. Along the way they act batshit crazy. That’s not useful.

            • Anony-Lurker

              I know Bird, you’re preaching to the choir.

            • ze moo

              Good protests will put the trumpestas on notice that people are watching them. That will do for now.

            • Anony-Lurker

              You think?

              I wonder if Trump will attempt to stop the demonstrations, after all he preached such action and his supporters are thoroughly addicted to the extra strength super potency Kool-Aid

          • Robert Eckert

            Those took ten years.

            • Mockingbird

              We have to have HUGE protests, the biggest, the greatest. We actually have to make it so large Trump cannot get the military to cooperate in oppression. That’s the dire need.

        • Draco

          But Trump has bosses, even though he might think he’s the Top Dog on the planet, he does have people to answer to. Hubbard had none.

          • Robert Eckert

            No, he doesn’t.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        and half the country doesn’t know this or care? that is some scary scary stuff folks!.. a carnival barker foul mouth reality show adulterer who knows nothing, literally! well done u.s.! because EVERYTHING in the u.s. was SOooooooooo bad and horrible in the past 8 years right??!!?

        • Mockingbird

          Trump has a use of undue influence. Steven Hassan has remarked that because Trump uses vague, contradictory and confusing communication his followers project their desires onto him.

          He has in one two minute conversation taken three positions on the minimum wage. He talked about keeping it the same, getting rid of it AND raising it ! If you desperately want to believe in him you can pick whichever one appeals to you and hear that one.

          He has in turns insulted then denied insulting dozens of groups. If you hate someone he can have the common enemy to be part of your in group, if you are in that group or not ready to hate them you can listen ONLY to the denial and agree with that.

          He gaslights ruthlessly.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            your posting NAILED IT! if only we could get this undue influence out to the trump people and OTHERS! heck, steve hassan should go on the networks to tell and inform people on this matter!

        • Anony-Lurker

          You are right. Half the country didn’t vote and that itself was just horrible and unthinkable.

          What makes it the more horrible is that those who voted for Trump knew what a piece of shit he was and didn’t care. Trump was right abut shooting a person on the street, his supporters would still vote for him.

          This whole election seems like something out of a science fiction novel or movie. How in the year 2016 could this happen. It’s just a nightmare. I guess you lie again and again and it become the Truth.

          I don’t for a minute believe that Trump pulled this off on his own, he had some very powerful people behind him manipulating everything. There’s a lot we just will never know.

          • When “half the country” abandons the political process because it has become disillusioned with the political establishment, a demagogue like Trump only has to unify people like this long enough to vote in order to gain power.

            This situation seems to be as much a failure of the political establishment to engage the people as it is a bad decision by a minority of Americans.

            • Mockingbird

              The establishment was studied by someone who determined the position the public has is irrelevant to policies the government sets until the top twenty or thirty percent income wise.

              They found the top one percent nearly set policy and the bottom seventy percent are ignored entirely.

              I can’t remember the guy’s name who did the study.

              But lots of people know their opinions are irrelevant.

              Only about half the eligible voters voted and Trump got less than half of them.

            • Anony-Lurker

              Yes, and that is exactly what happened!

            • ze moo

              Let’s see if Trumpy can actually affect the everyday life of Americans. I doubt it, he’ll sell out West Virginia for new Trump Tower in Cincinnati. Ideal mOrg not included. Batteries sold separately.

            • I can’t see that an administration headed by a man who does not understand the basics of good governance, and thinks he knows it all can be good for anyone, in the long run.

              I wonder what the implications of his misrule will be for Scientology.

              Will
              the CofS get away with more, because regulatory authorities are starved
              of resources by a misguided war on ‘red tape’ – or will he
              inadvertently inconvenience their operations with new laws?

          • Tracy Schmitz

            hear hear, i also don’t believe for 1 moment that ALL THE POLLS OR NEARLY 99% OF THEM were ALL WRONG? nearly all of them? no matter who conducted them? nbc, cbs, abc, cnn, msnbc, fox and other media outlets and forms of media?
            no matter nationwide or state by state? for months and months now? even up to 24 hours before the election? that trump HAD to win nearly all the battle ground states just to be competitive and he does? (even pennsylvania with 2 huge cities that overwhelmingly vote democratic and no population between the 2 cities to make up for this voting block!?) and he had to hope against hope that he could ALSO win one of the blue states that hadn’t voted for a republican president since the 80’s! and he won 2 of them, michigan and wisconsin?! come on!.. unless everyone decided to turn republican as they drove to the voting booths or countless democrats and independents didn’t vote at all, these results DEFY believeability and realism if you ask me!…i do believe that the lack of black voter participation was damning as well as perhaps the over emphasis on the latino vote and how big it was was also wrong…

            • Anony-Lurker

              I agree on every count Tracy.
              I kept saying that I felt like it was theater, I was witnessing a well played theatrical production. People thought I was crazy, but I believe it more than ever now.

              Some very powerful people are also getting payback for 8 years of a Black President.

              I lastly suspect that the Koch brothers were heavily involved. I know they said they were distancing themselves, but I never believed that. They are smart, keep a low profile and every horrible think Trump said during the campaign is exactly the way these brothers think.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              i forgot to add 3 DEBATES AS WELL where every poll in every form of media said clinton won those too!…it’s virtually impossible for example in the state of pennsylvania to be up by anywhere on average of 5 points 24 hours ahead of time and then lose that state?! people don’t realize that nationwide and state wise a 2,,3, 4 % percentage point advantage is HUGE in actual numbers! obama and romney were virtually neck to neck nationwide on election day with obama maybe having a 1 % lead.. and obama won by 4 percent! that’s another thing, usually the percentage of victory is GREATER then what the polls suggested whether nationwide or statewide!.. here? it was the complete opposite? i mean even in trump’s wildest wishes this couldn’t happen!….

            • Anony-Lurker

              Tracy, we could make a list of everything that just doesn’t make sense and that list would be very long.

              For example, through the campaign, I would turn on CNN or MSNBC, they always have 3 or 4 people on to discuss and debate and there always would be a Trump surrogate saying the most ridiculous things. Tempers and voices would rise, the debate would end, than the moderator would warmly thank the Trump supporter and also mention what a pleasure it always is to see them. (Guiliani, Katrina Pierson, Hope Hicks, Boris Epshteyn…????)

              Again, none of it, from Trump to Polls to debates to news…non of it makes sense, thus I do believe everything was staged, Trump was given the job years ago, Clinton, Warren even Obama had to know as they are part of it.

              I know this is real crazy conspirator stuff, but tell me Tracy, what else makes sense???

              I feel horrible that Trump won, but what’s even worse is the average people I’ve been meeting who voted for him, just parrot what Trump said and haven’t a clue as to how this whole thing will hurt us all.

              Our freedom, rights are continuously be taken away and once again the Trump people who scream against Socialism don’t understand that a Socialist state is exactly what is happening.

              This can be good or bad, in this case very bad…after all Nazi Germany was an example of a bad socialist state.

              No matter what Trump says:

              Globalism is here to stay
              Obama care isn’t going anywhere, it might be re-invented and Trump will take credit, but it will happen.
              Manufacturing jobs will not return to the U.S. It’s cheaper in Asia and no Trump supporter will tolerate paying$5000 for a cell phone instead of $500…etc

              Tracy, get a hold of the film “Network” written by Paddy Chayefsky (a wonderful writer, now deceased).

              At the end, Ned Beatty gives an amazing speech 7 minutes or so) to Mr. Beal, about the economy and the reality of what’s happening in the world. This was in the late 70’s I believe and Chayefsky nailed it!

            • Tracy Schmitz

              great follow up post! i’ve never seen “network” although of course i know of it… good call that i should go and rent it! and you nailed it with your comments on obamacare, manufacturing jobs (none of his supporters knew or cared that he made his OWN stuff overseas?! come on!) and globalism!

            • Anony-Lurker

              Sorry for the length of the last post, I get carried away, my fingers don’t stop and all of a sudden it’s a large post.

              It might be time to start reading Noam Chomsky again and taking him very seriously.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              trust me, i’m one person you NEVER EVER have to be sorry to about the length of your postings! i LOVE to read long postings and novel like emails from my family and friends! and gosh knows i have been “guilty” of doing so with them and on this site too! lol!… noam chomsky indeed!..

      • AmoVolare

        The vulnerable had better go voting and do it right (specially if they are more than half the people of the country). Not that I support Trump, but you should admit that Hilary was and horrible alternative (and no one will ever vote the better ones, which remains in the 2-3% range…)

      • pluvo

        All correct and I agree. Although I should have stressed the “compare”. The same is with the comparison to Hitler. Although there are concepts of the superior complex in Scn, it is invaliding to a certain degree the vast devastating genocide and horror created by Nazism.

        PS: I compare the CoS with a fascistic regime in general, There were and are many.

        • Mockingbird

          The scale of harm the Nazis did is far, far beyond Scientology.

          On that detail they’re in different universes.

          But they have so many common details in other ways it’s good to point out. Hubbard reportedly had many books on Hitler and tried to reproduce the propaganda success the Nazis had and used a lot of rhetoric that is extremely similar to Hitler speeches. I made a list on my blog.

          He also reportedly modeled the CMO after the Hitler youth. There are other links.

          • pluvo

            Yes, I know all this (not from your site). My parents and their families were anti-Nazis in the regime, my grandfather a socialist and a free thinker who was out-spoken and who loved the French, the archenemy, and who was frequently on the verge of getting arrested by the Gestapo. For me seeing “Minister of Propaganda and Enlightenment” (yes, it is the correct translation) Goebbels in action in the old videos is even more interesting.

        • Robert Eckert

          The comparisons of Trump to Hitler are one of the rare instances where a Hitler comparison is an insult to Hitler, who could speak eloquently.

  • SarahDB

    OT: If Hillary won the popular vote, that does NOT mean Trump has a mandate…keep strong and keep fighting injustice and racism and misogyny…

    ok, rant over…

    I feel better

  • Observer

    I took this last year. Even when things are at their most bleak, there are glimmers of beauty to be found.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2f136e201f123723f620ea5707639442e0e533045f55cdd0fbd58c8ba9e31dba.jpg

    • dungeon master

      Lovely photo, Obs!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Here’s one that I hope makes you smile.

      When you buy a bed for the little dog and the big dog not only thinks it’s his, but refuses to get out of it, even though he doesn’t fit in it….at all. LOL 😀 (f5)
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5c2d1331939bc4018824adaca3d41a6af67ea5306c3e6b59e32ca0d8d5722cc2.jpg

      • Observer

        Typical!

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          LOL!! He’s now climbed on top of it and is just sleeping on it instead of trying to fit in it. I guess that finally got tiresome. 😀

      • Rasha

        That’s one scrummeh cream puff, there!

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          That’s the height of silly, spoiled, alpha dog right there. He is sweet though. ; )

      • LongtimeLurker

        “If I fits, I sits.”

      • Sherbet

        That dog is a clam!

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          OT VI…at least. 😀

          • Sherbet

            Snap! Snap!

      • Juicer77

        So sweet. LOL!

      • Draco

        It was just his head that was cold! And anyway…why no big bed for big dog? Sigh. Always the youngest that gets spoiled.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          He has a bed. LOL A nice one too. We bought a new one for the little dog because his had gotten old and ratty. I have no idea how long the dog-bed war will last. 😀

    • Draco

      Always 🙂

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Obs, are those drops of water catching the light? If so they’re very cool, they look like little buds on the branch.

      • Observer

        Yes, helped a little by a star filter

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Very pretty. I really thought they were buds until I looked closer. 🙂

    • Princess Squishy

      That is a gorgeous photo, terrific

      • Observer

        Were you the one I sat next to at dinner the first night of HowdyCon?

        • Princess Squishy

          not me, I wasn’t there

          • Observer

            👌

    • Juicer77

      🙂

    • allioops

      AHHHH! “Last year.” if only

  • Observer
  • PickAnotherID

    Mr. Kennedy died in a shooting incident. It was said he shot himself accidentally while cleaning his revolver. An open verdict was returned by the coroner.

    You have to open the cylinder, if not remove it completely, to clean every revolver I’ve ever seen. Which makes it just a tad suspicious when someone shoots themselves “…while cleaning his revolver.” I wonder if anyone has gone back and looked at this case using modern forensic techniques??

    • LongtimeLurker

      What if the first thing he did was test fire it at his own face to make sure the chambers were all empty, before he started cleaning?

      • Mockingbird

        Good gun safety.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Listen, I’m not condoning it.

          Who knows where this guy got his training?

      • PickAnotherID

        Whatch any formula cop show or action movie, or take a firearms safety course. You check if a revolver is loaded by opening the cylinder, not by pointing the firearm at yourself.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Right.

          I was making what I thought was an overtly ridiculous suggestion to point out just how unlikely it was that he killed himself while cleaning a revolver.

        • Mockingbird

          I always point a gun at my – BANG ! Ouch !

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Exactly.

      • I have been known to look up a hosepipe to see if the water has come down yet. It’s probably just as well that I live in a society that doesn’t have guns.

        • LongtimeLurker
          • I’ll bear that in mind, when I stop flinching.

          • Wut a Moron!

            • LongtimeLurker

              I couldn’t believe it was real the first time I saw it.

        • daisy

          Like you ,my friends will not even let me hold a stapling gun. They are wise.

          • I take two steps back whenever anyone fires up a power tool. Everyone I know runs away on the rare occasions when I fire up a power tool.

            • Princess Squishy

              I’m the same way with fireworks. I don’t want to be anywhere near them. But I kind of have a caveman-like fear of fire/being burned. So of course one 4th of July we were with friends at their house, and my husband and the wife of the couple went over by the pond to shoot off the big fireworks, and the husband of the couple was inside with the baby, and I’m sitting at their steps, they had a series of maybe 8 or so uneven stone steps leading up a hill to their house. So my husband and our friend are shooting off these fireworks, the big, big ones, like a fireworks show will shoot off because they are legal for us to buy in our state, and they did several and they were very pretty. Until the thing they were using to prop the fireworks up to launch them into the sky fell over right as they lit one and one came right at me. Luckily it missed me and it missed setting the house on fire but it scared me to death. And with these rickety, unevenly sized stone steps it wasn’t like I could run up them, but running for my life from fireworks isn’t really going to work anyways.

            • Curiously, I’m good with fireworks. However, I was born on November the 5th – which is Guy Fawkes night in the UK and the traditional occasion for fireworks.

              The fact that I’m dangerous with power tools may be that I’m just not interested in the things they do, and don’t concentrate when using them. Fireworks, on the other hand, have good associations, so I’m focussed when lighting ’em up.

              Being scared of stuff like this probably makes you even less able to deal with them safely so, after an experience like that, I can understand your keeping your head down in future.

      • Princess Squishy

        you just made me a bad person for laughing at that

    • It’s not like you can accidentally “leave a round in the chamber” with a revolver.

  • Jeb Burton

    This is one of the many reasons I despise Scientologists, independent or indoctrinated. You are all a bunch of racist fucks.

    • pluvo

      It’s not true that all Scientologists are racists.

      PS: just in case: I’m not a Scn anymore. But when I was, I was certainly not racist and the others they were not more or less racists than I’ve seen in other people. All the racist stuff from Hubbard was not seen, was hidden.

    • Mockingbird

      WTF ? When I was in I bought into the idea we were all immortal spiritual beings and a body is just a symbol. So I don’t know what you think you know. I didn’t even believe in gender.

      • LongtimeLurker
      • pluvo

        People like Jeb have the idea that we had all the info which now can be found on the Internet and was digged up (and that all before the Internet).
        Short before I got sucked in, I was thinking about to work for Amnesty International. Peolpe like me got sucked in because of such convictions with the Scio PR how it is done today with the “Youth for Human Rights”. Jeb doesn’t know (or doesn’t want to know). He lives in Clearwater.

        • Mockingbird

          Huh ? Scientology has over thirty million words in it ! And you usually study the same references over and over again, so getting to most of it is impossible for most people.

          • pluvo

            Yes, you and me know. But WHAT info, especially new people get, is not automatically known by critics who were never in. It’s not about the millions of words, its just about the concept that one should know as a Scio (which isn’t the case) what they know (from the internet).
            Hope I expressed this now understandable for you (don’t forget that I sometimes struggle expressing things or are not aware when it is not clear as I’m ESL).

        • salin

          At times a rather one-dimensional black/white (binary) view is expressed by some of us never-ins. We need the voices of experience to call those ideas out – and fill them out with human dimensions.

          • Mockingbird

            This is part of why I feel a series on the path staff take is useful. If it laid out which courses staff get and what the references are for the courses people could see how very gradually the Scientologist gets molded bit by bit into an entirely different person.

            You don’t get the entire series on fair game or disconnection or anything all at once, especially in the beginning. It’s a bit here and there with lots of other stuff mixed in.

          • Observer

            That has been done with Jeb repeatedly. He’d rather hand down his damning pronouncements from his high horse.

            • Mockingbird

              Way up there.

            • Sherbet

              It’s the old “walk a mile in my moccasins” cliche. Jeb won’t do that. But he’s not the only one who’s come into the Bunker and pronounced current scientologists and exes as being weak, stupid, or easily manipulated.

            • Observer

              No, he isn’t. But he is the most consistent, and I have never seen him express any compassion for those who joined (as opposed to being born in), unlike the others.

            • Sherbet

              Hey, I’m just glad “wog” didn’t make an appearance yesterday.

            • Observer

              Oy

            • LongtimeLurker

              ‘wog’ and its follow-up sock “Likes Winning” were both banned.

            • Mockingbird

              Thank whatever.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Tony. Thank Tony.

              And Jebus.

            • pluvo

              “Wog” has a sever hangover as he was totally high on “being right”.

            • Mockingbird

              Victim blaming isn’t productive. And somehow everyone that does it can find empathy for themselves.

          • pluvo

            He is quite provoking but somehow I like him (don’t know why – maybe I’m crazy). He doesn’t get under my skin and I want to give him some info. At the same time I think it is futile and he feels accosted by me.

            • Jeb Burton

              I don’t feel accosted. Just sick of the pity party. I was in, wah, it’s all DM’s fault, wah, wasn’t smart enough to question LRH, please feel sorry for me.

            • pluvo

              It’s not about pity at all. It’s about telling how I see it as an ex and what I experienced – what I thought is appreciated here. It’s of course easy to generalize and rebuke generally what others say when it doesn’t fit with one’s preconceived opinion.

              Fact is: I never was a racist and can’t stand them.

            • Mockingbird

              Nah. Don’t feel sorry for me. In fact disconnect.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Must be great to have never made a mistake.

              Jeb, let me know when you start your own cult for Awesome People Who Are Awesome.

            • Mockingbird

              That’s the crux of a lot of criticism of exes. We must have been stupid, wanted to be fooled, weak minded, crazy, etc. No, what happened to us could happen to almost anyone. I guess if someone never trusted anything or anybody it might not happen. Good luck with that life.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I was a little bit like that for about my first month here. But I was more polite, even then.

            • chukicita

              I really don’t see that pity party you say is happening.

            • salin

              I remember a couple of months ago we had some trolling – and Jeb jumped in… I (and others) were saying things like “where’s our cranky cousin, Jeb?” with genuine fondness.

        • Jeb Burton

          You were taught you were superior to the wogs. Give me a break. You were inferior, easily brainwashed.

          • pluvo

            I didn’t believe in everything I was told what resulted in continually dealing with cognitive dissonance.

            • It seems to me that membership in Scientology is not so much a matter of belief, but a constant struggle to suspend disbelief.

              That struggle is often resolved in favour of Scientology through social pressure – one of the first things the organisation does is to socially isolate new members by drawing them into a world where the only people they meaningfully interact with are other Scientologists.

              It sometimes seems to me that Scientologists leave because the CofS breaks that spell by treating them outrageously – if only Scientology treated its members better, they would retain more of them.

              The reason they don’t is that Hubbard was obsessed with accumulating money, and in the days before the Internet, when recruitment was still possible, the fastest way to do this was fleece people and then discard them – a high turnover brought in new money.

              This tactic is no longer tenable because recruitment has collapsed, but Miscavige refuses to acknowledge this. Instead, he has switched the focus of the organisation from the practice of Scientology to selling ‘statuses’ in order to keep money coming in

              This is a short-term measure. The remaining membership only has so much money to give, and they aren’t getting any younger.

              Scientology failed to adapt after the death of Hubbard, and is now its own worse enemy.

            • Mockingbird

              You hit on an idea that has appeared before.

              “It is startling to realize how much unbelief is necessary to make belief possible.”
              ― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

            • pluvo

              All what you said is correct.

              “It seems to me that membership in Scientology is not so much a matter of belief, but a constant struggle to suspend disbelief.”

              It’s about taking your convictions and morph them with different kinds of means and aligne them with Hubbard’s. Amongst others, the no-“verbal tech” doctrine is propelling or even making this possible.

            • Quite.

              The “verbal tech” thing also isolates Scientologists from each other so that they think that they are alone in having doubts when, in fact, everybody is having problems and putting a brave face on it – a situation called ‘pluralistic ignorance’. https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-pt-5-pluralistic-ignorance/

              It also means that there are probably almost as many interpretations of Scientology as there are Scientologists. Each individual can come to an accomodation with doctrine more easily, because they do not have to fit in with others as well.

              Everyone thinks that they understand the orthodox version when, in practice, you are allowed to interpret Scientology in any way that you like, as long as you conform and don’t rock the boat.

            • pluvo

              You have no idea how alone one can be when in, especially when in ethics trouble and when leaving. It’s like solidary confinement but of one’s mind and being at the same time in a vortex of contradictions. Nearly the only people one can open up to in such a situation are ethics personal and sec checkers. It’s like talking to the Thought police when one is questioning the regime and Big Brother. I described it once to another ex who was decompressing with “I was never so alone in my life being surrounded by people”. He said that that would have been exactly how it was. And this is a person who is naturally very communicative.

              When out, one can not confide to others who were never in because they don’t understand (and one is not out of the mind-set but in limbo). This is why it is so important that people who get out can confide in exes.The most important thing is that they can talk without getting attacked*.

              It is the purest cynicism that one of the main Scio slogans is: “communication is the universal solvent!”.

              *edit/ PS: with people who are out longer and were able to get all the info, especially about Hubbard, I’m less gingerly because I think most of them just can’t handle “having been wrong”.

            • As a never-in, I’ve always tried to listen to exes and try to understand the context of what they are saying. When you have accumulated sufficient background information you can understand something of the extreme social pressure exerted by that experience of being ‘alone in crowd’, excluded until you complied.

              Of course, that is not the same as having had the experience – but empathy, imagination, research, and a lot of thought can give outsiders an insight into the power of that kind of closed social situation.

              Support groups work because almost everyone in them has had similar experiences and understand each other. Of course, there are unusual problems with support structures for ex-Scientologists – not least that the CofS would harass, infiltrate and sabotage them.

              This is why places like this are so valuable – places where ex-Scientologists and outsiders can learn from each other, in an environment only occasionally marred by idiots who don’t have the imagination, empathy or intellect to listen and understand, but instead blame the victim https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/understanding-the-scientology-mindset-pt-6-attribution-theory-or-why-we-blame-the-victim/

              My thanks to you and to every ex who speak so openly and honestly here.

            • pluvo

              Because I know you understand, can process and then articulate so excellently, I keep on explaining things in detail responding to your comments.

              I love your articles at your blog, although I seldom read because I lived it. I think your blog is one of the best about Scn and trumps (sorry) most because it is succinct and easily understandable. If it’s too complex – and the subject of Scn is already complex – only few dive in. I think your blog should be permanently linked in Mike Rinder’s blog and others. Maybe you can make your avatar so that when clicking on it, it links to your blog.

              It is also my concern that many a story is untold from exes, especially when they get salvos of “you are stupid”. Who wants to tell his stories when he is getting reduced to a stupid person. I told many stories, actually parts of it with explanations but I was holding back also many times.

              Of course comment-sections are evolving and I like the chatting here but sometimes when I look at the comment-section from some years back I miss how it was. Although I think that many people moved on, I believe that some just had enough of getting attacked (like Marc Headley for example who didn’t comment anymore when after a comment he made in a video was depicted as an abuser).

            • An enduring problem with Scientology is that it has such an enormous back-story – it’s been around for long time and Hubbard had every nonsense word he spoke preserved for posterity. That combined with the secrecy and compartmentalisation, makes it difficult for outsiders to get a handle on.

              That’s no excuse for being boorish (like Jeb) and everyone should bear in mind that nobody has the full picture. Producing simplistic answers to complex questions , as he does, makes you look superficial and dumb.

              I can understand why people tire of being ‘attacked’ by such characters, but would urge them to resist letting them have an effect. I sometimes wonder of some of this stuff is done precisely to silence exes who are effectively feeling the truth about their experience with Scientology.

              Even if not, every community has idiots that should be ignored. Nils Carborundum

            • pluvo

              ” I sometimes wonder of some of this stuff is done precisely to silence
              exes who are effectively feeling the truth about their experience with
              Scientology.”

              It was done frequently , AFAIK especially on the exscn board and I’m pretty sure it is done here also.
              Additionally to the attacks probably also with whiny mood and just general stirring up using “the tone scale” (what is used in OSA drilling) and it could be that there are also “sleepers”.

            • My policy is to reply to what is said (and ignore obvious idiots) and not get carried away with theorising about the motives of the people who say dumb things.

              When you start to look for ‘agents’ you generally find them – sometimes where they do not, in fact, exist, and offending well-meaning newbies who unknowingly give the wrong impression.

              It’s easy to stumble into paranoid hall of mirrors – which is exactly what any agent provocateur would want.

              Having said that, I expect exes are more likely to spot people using ‘the tech’ to stir up dissension…

          • Robert Hanna Moore

            I used to think that.

          • Mockingbird

            Easily ? How many people have you brainwashed ? What’s your mind control pedigree ?

            • Jeb Burton

              I don’t understand what your asking. I think Scientologists are easily manipulated. Weak minded. Is there a problem with that line of thinking? I don’t think that is an exaggeration.

            • Mockingbird

              If you don’t have an education in mind control then you can’t form an educated opinion. But hey, if you want to pretend to be better than someone, knock yourself out. You are so superior you should not lower yourself to talk to me. Why not hang out with people at your level ?

            • Jeb Burton

              I can tell you were in once. Cant take a little criticism? I don’t think I’m superior. Just a normal guy who has an opinion on Scientology.

            • Mockingbird

              You said Scientologists are weak minded and easily manipulated. Is that a relative term. Relative to whom ? Are you weak minded and easily manipulated ? Or superior ?

            • Jeb Burton

              Easily manipulated by women. Probably weak minded, but always asking questions. Probably why I’ve never been indoctrinated in a cult.

            • Mockingbird

              So is that a superior attribute ?

            • Jeb Burton

              I’m not a Scientologist. I don’t think I’m superior to anybody. I have an opinion on Scientologists, doesn’t make me better or worse than them. I have my faults, just can’t think of any right now, but I’m sure they are there.

            • Mockingbird

              You didn’t address my question directly. I didn’t ask about Scientologists. I asked about you. If you are saying Scientologists are inferior to you then you are placing yourself as superior. Just own up to it, unless you are a victim of logic ?

            • Jeb Burton

              I’m a victim of logic. I own up to it. You win. Leave me alone now.

            • Mockingbird

              Wait, I thought you didn’t like people playing victim ? Is it okay for you though ?

            • Jeb Burton

              Are you my ex wife? I said you win. I give up. Here, take my credit card, go shopping. I’ll be in the mancave.

            • LongtimeLurker

              You got a real thing about women don’t you?

            • MarcabExpat

              “Easily manipulated by women…”

              Go home, Jeb, you’re drunk.

            • LongtimeLurker

              They have evil witchy powers they use to influence poor innocent men.

            • Mockingbird

              Sounds like the old victim talk. Come on Jeb, set a good non victim example.

            • You broke him 🙂

            • MarcabExpat

              Hey, at least being sexist is a much, much less serious problem than being a racist. Ol’ Jeb would never be caught being a racist!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Lol.

            • Mockingbird

              I can take plenty of criticism and have had plenty. I took the name Mockingbird after the novel To Kill A Mockingbird because I knew in speaking out against Scientology I would be blindly attacked by prejudiced people and you haven’t disproven that prediction.

              I object to people blaming victims. If you are the victim of something I am confident you won’t want to be blamed.

            • Jeb Burton

              Where the hell do you get an education in mind control? Wait, I think I know.

            • Mockingbird

              You can study propaganda analysis, thought reform and a number of other subjects in college. You have to pick the right one.

              You can take the book Cults Inside Out by Rick Alan Ross and ot has probably fifty references to compile an excellent and comprehensive curriculum. Jon Atack has also mentioned several dozen books and videos.

            • Jeb Burton

              Sounds like a good time, but unfortunately I’ll be on my boat fishing all weekend, maybe later.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Classy. And adult.

            • Mockingbird

              That’s fine. But know that you are not educated on the subject.

            • Jeb Burton

              Damn it. I think your right. What a dummy.

            • Mockingbird

              Then why not be humble and not insult people ?

            • Jeb Burton

              I’m not insulting anybody. I have an opinion on Scientology that is factual, and you are hurt by it because it’s true. My nickname is Humble Jeb. Word on the street is I’m the humblest man in Clearwater.

            • Mockingbird

              The fact is you come here to insult people and act like you can’t stand them but I didn’t drag your ass into my chain locker. YOU brought yourself here. To insult people and deny it. Pretty fucking weak. I am not insulting you. Uh, no you are and won’t own up to it.

              You brought your ass here to act like you don’t want to be around the people you came to insult. It’s pretty simple.

            • lol

            • Mockingbird

              Well if someone wants to use his knowledge on a subject to put people down, he should get some knowledge.

            • It’s like, when people come forward and say the been conned, then there are those who say – “You fool, this would never happen to me! You must be stupid” 🙂 People like that, never took a chance in their life, they never trust anyone, they are bitter and complaining about their boring little life of mistrust, especially when they get older.

              Another analogy would be; companies that get Hacked. They shut up about it and now many other companies are then at great risk to be hacked. Those who comes forward are ridiculed on the stock marked and in comment sections, by people who say – “You fool, this would never happen to me and this is why i don’t have a computer” – Da ah?

              Those people, here in the bunker, who think’s they would never be conned like that and we as exes are bloody fools, typically forgets that we had the experience and now have a new tool-box that they never will have and like a Hacker, who hacks those who points their fingers at other victims, will get hacked and conned, just for the lulz.

            • Mockingbird

              Very good comparison. And to me the first tool for the box is this: I was filled, so I am capable of being fooled.

              Maybe after studying Scientology for a thousand hours or so as a cult critic I won’t go back. Maybe, BUT I can still be fooled by someone or something.

              I cannot escape human nature. So I certainly want to be warned and cautious but I can still be fooled or wrong about ANYTHING or ANYONE.

              That’s the first tool.

            • Yeah! one has to recognize one’s own limitations at first (it’s not a bad thing) When young people are jumping up and down like a spring chicken, they are going to get hurt. Now is the time to come out the Box called ASC and spread out the words in general society and say; No more of this Cult shit that is eating up people’s time. IQ is basically pattern-recognition and people like Lifton, Atack, Singer etc. can see this pattern and they exhibit a very high Social Intelligence. People can learn new patterns, you are not stuck in a clinical IQ!

            • Mockingbird

              “Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength.”
              ― Eric Hoffer, The Passionate State of Mind: And Other Aphorisms

            • MarcabExpat

              Yes there is a problem with that line of thinking, you shit-stirring, backwards-minded fuck. There, how do you like it when other people use your own verbal tech back on you?

              Do you seriously think Chris Shelton is weak-minded? How about Paul Haggis? Mike Rinder? Leah Remini? Or do you just imagine that “weak-minded” people magically become strong-minded the day they leave Scientology? Because that’s bullshit. Undue influence is a complicated process to which even a genius mind can fall prey, but I guess that reality is too nuanced for you to process.

              Scientologists believe they’re superior to “wogs” because they’re carefully trained to think that. You believe you’re superior to people who’ve been unduly influenced because you are under the delusion that you’re less “weak-minded” than they are and could never be ensnared by the same process. That makes you no better than the “racist” cult victims you’re imagining yourself superior to. Maybe worse, because nobody trained you to think that; you made it up yourself. How nice for you, being such a superior breed of humanity.

              You might want to keep in mind that most Scientologists have never seen the explicitly racist doctrines, partly because they’re a few words in an avalanche of training that nobody ever completes, and partly because the Cherch has been quietly expurgating the “offensive” bits with each successive edition of whatever text contained them. You have to find first or early editions now to find that stuff; you have to know it exists and hunt it down in “critic” sources like the Bunker or Lerma. Today’s mainstream Scientologist not only doesn’t believe that stuff themselves, they would deny Hubbard ever believed it either, and they’d be sincere because it’s not in any of their study materials.

              But you keep on being an asshat, Jeb. You stay classy.

            • Jeb Burton

              So Miscavage is just a victim with the nonsense your spewing. I think most exes would admit they were at a vulnerable time of their life when they joined the cult. If your going to dedicate your life to something, you should research it.

            • MarcabExpat

              No, Miscavige is not “just a victim.” He’s also anything but weak-minded. Also, being at a vulnerable time of one’s life is not remotely the same thing as being “weak-minded.” Your statement that you are a victim of logic is true, in that logic utterly defeats you.

              And I’m a never-in, you nunce. You better believe I do research things I dedicate my life to. I’m here because a different, unrelated cult destroyed my family when I was a child, and I find the subject matter and discussion stimulating and useful. And because I care about justice and want to support those seeking mental freedom. These are all good reasons to be here, along with a common reason exes have to be here, which is recovery from the lies and distortions of Scientology and mutual assistance.

              Why you’re here I can’t imagine. What are you contributing? You just take cheap swipes at others you deem inferior to yourself. You’re not superior to anyone, and the ex-Scientologists I meet here are routinely more strong-minded, and better educated, than you are. So take a dose of your own medicine. And while you’re at it, why don’t you do us all a favor and learn the difference between “your” and “you’re.” It will make your comments slightly less obnoxious, and you need all the help with that you can get.

            • Jeb Burton

              When you go to the your, you’re, you’re usually losing the argument. So only exes should be here? Everybody kiss the exes ass. I read Dianetics when I was younger, and I said what a load of bullshit. So I guess I am an ex too.

            • MarcabExpat

              FAIL. On all counts. There is literally nothing accurate or pertinent in this reply.

              As someone who enjoys interacting with all types on this blog, exes, never-ins and casual commenters, I really hate it when you (and a few other eccentrics here) just up and decide, apropos of nothing, to put on your ugly hat for the day before commenting. You are quite capable of joining in the conversation in a civilized way. You failed at that today, and every time you do that, the Bunker is poorer for your comments. Maybe get some sleep and try again tomorrow in a less misanthropic mood?

          • Mockingbird

            Inferior to whom ? Are you god to judge ?

            • pluvo

              I was startled about that too. I think he means that we were conceived as being inferior by Scientologists as ‘wogs’. I hope he doesn’t mean inferior and thus easily brainwashed as that would mean he himself would have a superior complex.

            • Jeb Burton

              I meant to say, Scientologists are taught they are special, better than normal people. That is what I read, and where their arrogance stems from, on full display here in Clearwater.

            • pluvo

              Yes, that is part of it and part of the doctrine. It is what has to be shed when one is leaving Scientology. What you see in Clearwater is the extreme of it from the Sea Org. It has degrees.

            • chukicita

              I live here, too. And I get what you’re talking about.

              But is it arrogance — or is it fear?

              Scientologists are taught to fear the wog world. On the one hand, they’re told their belief system will strengthen their superhuman abilities, but on the other they are told that the planet is increasingly dangerous, and their belief system is so frail that it can’t stand up to the heat.

            • pluvo

              chukicita, in this point I have to agree with ” Humble Jeb” – lol… he called himself like that below. I was in the Sea Org and there maybe fear involved but there is a lot of arrogance.

              see: https://scientologymoneyproject.com/tag/scientology-master-race/

              PS: I forgot – you are a never-in, right.

            • chukicita

              Yep. But, pluvo, in every issue of Freedom, there is doom and gloom and how the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

              Do you think the arrogance comes from “certainty” ?

            • pluvo

              Yes, the doom and gloom is part of it and also the point of “certainty” as in other cults and religions who look down on non-believers (more or less, depending on character and indoctrination) – your question/statement is excellent – but also the superior complex is indoctrinated.

              Inside, the people have different characters and some people absorb it more or less or are predisposed (like there are lovely and arrogant people outside). In general the closer they get to “management” the more the arrogance. The people who are surrounding DM are the extremest. They couldn’t survive in that positions without the cold-chrome-steel attitude looking down on others what is also demanded. At the International Headwater they can also not marry outside of their circles and are forced to divorce when their spouse is at a “lower” org.
              (here a divorce and break-up list by Marc Headley: http://www.xenu-directory.net/accounts/blownforgood.html ).

            • chukicita

              Wow. Yes I remember back in 2004 or 5 when Rathbun and Warren McShane were divorced within weeks of each other, and they were being disappeared from Scn websites.

      • Jeb Burton

        Ignorance is not an excuse in my opinion. You were part of an extremely racist cult. Africans don’t have the IQ to be members, like the superior white people. Disgusting. There are many instances of the racism in LRH and Scientology. No excuses.

        • Mockingbird

          That makes no sense. If Hubbard wrote that racist stuff in references I never saw how was I responsible ? That’s absurd.

        • Graham

          Nobody’s perfect Jeb. And who wants to be Nobody?

        • Mockingbird

          We are disgusting ? Are you ? i

        • chukicita

          I totally agree that Scientology is steeped in racism. So are many American institutions and traditions.

          But you can’t say ignorance is not an excuse to members of an organization who do not belong to it through informed consent.

    • Juicer77

      Stop trying to stir things up with these all-or-nothing statements. You’re certainly stooping to their level here. Are you trying for irony?

    • Robert Hanna Moore

      Like Jesse Prince?

      • MarcabExpat

        Beat me to it.

    • Mockingbird

      Why do you associate with despicable racist fucks ?

    • chukicita

      Do you realize just how ridiculous that sounds?

      How can you hate EVERY SINGLE person in a group and not be guilty of the exact same kind of thinking you are accusing them of?

      • LongtimeLurker

        But he’s right.

        Everyone else isn’t.

        See?

        • chukicita

          I am so naive.

  • 9001

    The Mail were all over Hublard back in the 60s. I’ve read that he was “reported in the Daily Mail to have $7,000,000 in LRH Personal Account No.: 272’893·2 in the Pictet Bank, Geneva – though Hubbard’s claim, believed by all Scientologists, is that he inherited a large fortune in oil-yielding land in Montana.” Anyone know of a link to the original Daily Mail story that gives these banking details?

    • Juicer77

      No, no. He dug up the gold on his farm in Maryland. Truefax!! XD

      • 9001

        Yeah .He remembered where he had buried it from one of his past lives :p

  • Tracy Schmitz

    and NOT A SINGLE scientologist still in EVER looked into him and the cult before they got in? nothing, nada, zilch.. how terrible NONE of this information was EVER EVER OUT THERE before the internet came along, so how could they possibly have known ANYTHING, ANY OF IT! (sarcasm!)..biggest con artist chiester of the 20th century, with what looks like reams of information about him from the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and 80s and NOBODY knew about him or thought to even know about him before they got in this insidious thing?

    • Mockingbird

      Tracy you don’t paint a valid picture. Thousands of people left Scientology every year. But you don’t hear about the people that did it for a few weeks or months and found out it was a scam because they usually don’t have any interest in admitting it. The people that were in decades and want it stopped speak out.

      There are thousands and thousands of people that looked into it and they left or Hubbard kicked them out if they tried to expose him.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        i meant those STILL IN, not the ones who were in and DID look into it and left…. and that still leaves the question that those who i applaud who did look into it the thousands still did NOT LOOK INTO IT BEFOREHAND….

        • Mockingbird

          Ok. I think maybe you are starting with a false assumption on normal human behavior. People don’t question everything all the time. They somehow end up with beliefs and behavior and emotions patterns or frames or deeply ingrained assumptions.

          They stick with them usually and retain them. On most things that are deeply held with strong emotional convictions we rarely change.

          Most people don’t question their religion or basic core values. They are formed, set at some point and remain. That’s life.

          Do you wake up and question your religion, your philosophy, your friends, your life ?

          Consistency is part of human behavior.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            actually mockingbird i do regularly question my religion (no longer practicing catholic), my philosophies, family and friends! and when i say question all of this, i don’t mean in a negative light necessarily either… in regards to your comment of people don’t question everything all the time? how does one NOT QUESTION WHAT RELIGION YOUR GOING TO join and live your live by presumably 24/7? it’s NOT like deciding to join a gym and which one to do so! or some other simple matter.. guess it’s just me, but i question and look into EVERYTHING i’m gong to do, whether joining a gym, which job i’m applying for (company reviews) what vehicle to purchase and so on… and YET something that is determining your/their life and ruling over it, like a secretive little sect of a “religion” like scientology they DON’T? i can “kind of” see it if one was born into it and didn’t know any better and yes, were programmed to not look, but those who were NOT born into it? no excuse in my opinion..

            • Mockingbird

              I don’t know if you obsess over a million things or do something else but most people don’t question those things over and over. They just have core values or beliefs or prejudices and follow them for most of their lives. It’s human nature.

              Honestly if you actually want to know you can read about psychology, but you can just keep acting surprised and incredulous here if you don’t want to learn anything.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              i’m NOT disagreeing with you. i’m sure there ARE plenty of people who have core values or beliefs or prejudices and follow them for most of their lives.. it’s comforting to them, i’m just saying that people SHOULD question more and should not be so cocooned that their comfort should be THAT comforting or needed to be… it’s not that i question things over and over again constantly, it’s that i take the time to question everything from time to time and personally i feel shouldn’t that be the way to go? i mean it’s better to be looking over the next hill then to keep the head in the sand i figure..anyway, i’m just saying if your going to join a little known “religion” and live your live by that creed, you sure as heck should and should of looked into everything you could find and hear the good and back of it before making a decision on something THAT important… to not do otherwise? to not EVEN look at all or think or want to do so? is shocking to me as a adult about other adults!…

            • chukicita

              The blame and shame angle doesn’t really work.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              perhaps not, but i don’t think the free pass and excuses angle work either…. how can one move on if they don’t accept their OWN personal responsibility and failings?

            • chukicita

              Free pass to what? I’m sorry- enduring the grip of a high-control organization isn’t exactly free. Tracy, I don’t know anything of your background – do you have any personal experience in this or are you armchair quarterbacking here?

              I don’t think you can judge anyone from a few posts on how much responsibility they are accepting or not. Nor do I think it’s really your job or mine to do that.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              what i mean is by “free pass” not taking personal responsibility for getting involved in this insidious thing by not doing their homework BEFOREHAND, then getting involved in such a thing and while thankfully getting out of it eventually, not realizing if they had due diligence ahead of time what went on and happened to them could have been prevented, but instead it’s ALL of the cult’s fault! that is what i mean…
              NO, i do not thankfully have any personal experience and while some may see it as monday after the fact quarterbacking hindsight.. i personally feel NO it’s NOT hindsight it should have been foresight…i’m not saying EVERYONE is not taking responsibility for their own actions of getting involved but some are… and i will always find it incredulous and hard to believe that no foresight or homework and responsibility was NOT taken before they got involved in this little known small “sect” of a religion.. perhaps is isn’t my job to judge, but then again, if you want empathy and understanding it can’t be a 100% one sided affair either without dissension either..

            • chukicita

              Tell it to Gandhi or Dr. King or Jesus. How does pounding on people with the iron fist of self-righteousness help anyone?

            • Tracy Schmitz

              asking people to take personal responsibility for getting involved in something that they now realize was stupid, wrong and evil is a bad thing? ESPECIALLY if they didn’t do their homework AHEAD of time? sometimes guilt and shame and self examination “damn, i was stupid, what was i thinking” even in a half hearted laughing manner are great motivators to do better.. when people do NOT have any of this? and don’t learn from it? maybe it’s me, but i always feel you can’t change or grow if you don’t admit and are truthful with yourself that what you did if bad started from you yourself…granted, not to feel these negative emotions 24/7 and for life, that is not helpful at all, but at the same time,to not have a shred of it is also not good.. “those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it again”… sometimes i think that is the GREATER problem in our society.. so many do not have shame or responsibility…..

            • chukicita

              I agree that being truthful with yourself is the foundation of facilitating positive change.

              But I also think that it’s unnecessary to pour so much vitriol and blame victims. Perhaps walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before you start pounding.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              what you call vitriol and blame i call being brutally honest with yourself and being a adult… and i’m only calling for this personal responsibility to those who as adults 1) were not born into it and never took the time to look into it all before they got in and use a litany of excuses why and 2) those who complain the most about it once they got out but yet at the same time do not take ANY personal responsibility for their involvement, not in the slightest… i have empathy for those who were born into it and those who truly were alone, lost, had issues already and had no one or nothing…
              i can’t even fathom feeling empathy or understanding for celebs who should have known better, whose ultimate goal is to protect themselves and their reputation (and didn’t look into it at all? before, during or since their involvement? ) and who remain in for decades and who are (or act) deaf, dumb and blind to it all!..

          • ze moo

            I just talked to 2 nice old ladies who are Jehovah’s Witnesses who came to my door to check my ‘Christianity’. They were about 70 years old and just doing their JW proselytizing duty. I was polite when asked if I belonged to an organized religion. I said no, I was Lutheran.

            They giggled and left me a card with the URL of the JW’s web site. I have more fun with Mormons. Kolath and Marcab are next door neighbors.

            • Mockingbird

              Oh boy.

        • Juicer77

          I hear you, but I spent more than I should have on questionable medical treatments at one point in my life. And that was after research. Hope is a great blinder to reality.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            at least you DID research AHEAD of time!.. guess one has to question the information on that research on anything too right?..

  • PickAnotherID

    It’s ‘National Vanilla Cupcake Day’. I think I’m going to go bake a couple of dozen and hunker down until the political trebuchets cease fire.
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2l3IRdDMEm8/VkP8mdEPWSI/AAAAAAAAB7k/f7Quvq_xEPU/s1600/8ba5d-vanilla-cupcakes-with-sweetened-whipped-cream-frosting.jpg

    • kemist

      Perhaps these can be put in the trebuchets instead of the politics.

      Would certainly be tastier.

      • Sherbet

        I’m waiting with my mouth open, but nothing’s happening. 🙁

        • LongtimeLurker

          lol

        • Princess Squishy

          That is dangerous under our new regime…..

    • Juicer77

      Why bother? 😉 Wake me when it’s Choklit Cupcaek Day.

      • kemist

        Why do you discriminate against white cupcakes ?

        Cupcake racist !

        • Princess Squishy

          settle down
          .
          -wait for it-
          .
          ALL cupcakes matter

    • Robert Eckert

      The cease fire may not come this century.

  • Sherbet

    Buffoon.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    above:

    “Furious”

    “The director of the Scientology Institute in Bulawayo, Mr. John Kennedy, was responsible for much of the cult’s success in Rhodesia.

    “All went well until Mr. Kennedy, probably impressed by the amount of money he was making for Mr. Hubbard, decided to branch out with a movement of his own — the Institute of Mental Health, headquarters of which he set up in Johannesburg.

    “The Scientologists were furious for Mr. Kennedy took with him a large slice of their paying members.

    “Mr. Kennedy died in a shooting incident. It was said he shot himself accidentally while cleaning his revolver. An open verdict was returned by the coroner.”

    ————

    The 1965 original “KSW” policy condones fanatical behavior, I wonder if some of Hubbard’s most extremist policies need a refresher course, as their dark sides have lead to bad results.

    With “Fair Game” policy coming out within a short period of that ex staffer gun death, I sure wish those still alive who read the old Guardian’s Office files or who were right on the scene who are still alive and able to tell the full details would emerge and contact you Tony and nail this story down.

    Bill Franks told of seeing old Guardian’s Office files (files now apparantly destroyed) pointing to a couple of murders orchestrated by the old Guardian’s Office.

    1965 “Keeping Scientology Working” by Hubbard has the “rather have you dead than incapable” and the massive figurative statements by Hubbard that precede the ex Rhodesia staffer’s self inflicted gun death.

    Hubbard’s words did have impact on people’s lives in any event.

    Just like the “….and if you see WDC SMI, spit on him for me….” of 1982ish by Hubbard surely condoned Miscavige’s spitting and punching early 1980s era, I’m thinking that Hubbard’s “KSW” all time important “rather have you dead than incapable” attitude of 1965 and the whole serious anti squirrel attitude in “KSW” 1965 is date coincident prior to this Rhodesia ex-staffer’s life.

    Earlier similar, as Hubbard would say.

    My mind leaps to the conclusion that fanatically minded Scientologists helped induce or edge the splinter ex Scientologist to the end he came to.

    That is Scientology’s behavior that continued as Tony’s laid out in “The Unbreakable Miss Lovely”.

    • FredEX2

      ^^^^^

  • Draco

    “I, L. Ron Hubbard…having reviewed the damage being done in our society with nuclear physics and psychiatry by persons calling themselves “Doctor,” do hereby resign in protest my university degree as a doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.), anticipating an early public outcry against anyone called “Doctor””

    Well, that’s another prediction he got wrong. Along with “this planet only has 5 years before it blows itself to smithereens”, also predicted in the 60s.
    F5 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0460b19627cc2514dcdabc07b85403bc3b551d5c6cde4bf6820b4326a3359bdb.png https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/51defb281466cc82156da970e8ed31076f93d93a79702fe11300202119ba26fd.png https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/62d8a0c3a931c0e18b10cf717881413e14c0490dd599ecb199d76050fe61fe62.png https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b4aebc8cf385d50c54cfa319af1939e97a199fd4da86351a0e22d02dbd849a2a.png

  • Mrs. V.

    Go ahead and say that my “Doctor” title is bogus, I don’t wanna be a Doctor anymore anyway! Why would I want to be associated with real doctors anyway? No one likes them or takes them seriously, and I should be taken seriously. So there!

  • Mrs. V.

    He got pneumonia twice, and couldn’t fight it off with his ot powers? Riiiight.

    • Ben Franklin

      If he believed his own stuff, this means that he was either an SP or read OT materials that he was not qualified to read.

      • Mrs. V.

        And yet a short time later, he was the only person in millions of years to break through the WALL OF FIYAH and get the scoop on ot 3. Uh huh.

    • kemist

      OT III ?

      • Mrs. V.

        Oh, yeah! That’s totally what happened, he wasn’t ready yet.

      • The Wall of Phlegm.

  • Rasha

    “He planned to develop it into a game lodge.”

    …’nuff said.

    • MarcabExpat

      Oh, it was part of his game all right.

  • Ben Franklin

    Hubbard was such a terrible liar. Where in the world would a doctor advise a patient to leave the country because of pneumonia or any other illness?

    “Mr. Hubbard arrived in Rhodesia early in May from Johannesburg, where he
    had flown in January 1966 after “a third bout of pneumonia following
    which my doctors advised me to leave Britain” — according to a newspaper
    interview in Salisbury.”

    • Sherbet

      Hubbard was being modest. It was undoubtedly another one of those pesky war wounds that compelled him to seek healing in Africa.

      • They kicked him out of Rhodesia because of the tons of shrapnel that kept leaking out of his body.

        • Sherbet

          That wasn’t shrapnel. It was stigmata!

    • Mrs. V.

      Actually, my mom’s uncle, who was about the same age as hubbard, had tuberculosis and was told by his doctor to move to a warm, dry climate in order to control the symptoms. He ended up in New Mexico.

    • LongtimeLurker

      He’s paraphrasing.

      The doctor actually said “Please get out of my office. You’re freaking me out.”

    • MarcabExpat

      They did actually use to prescribe travel. People were sent to the countryside (to get away from city pollution) or to the seaside (because sea air was supposed to have healing qualities), or to “the spa” or “the sanitarium” for months at a time, or to different climates, especially more southern/warm/sunny ones than the British fog and damp. This was especially done for respiratory illnesses.

      BUT STILL. With his own words he invalidated his own scriptures, and his followers manage to invalidate that. No doubt at the time it wasn’t an issue in close quarters because as the Sea Org formed it became habitual to adopt a shore story, but I wondered what the general Scilon public must have thought of that quote.

      • The Great Smog of 1952 killed 4,000 people in London, so country air was a good thing when they still burned coal.

    • SarahDB

      From someone who hated going to the doctor!

  • Sherbet

    I think lrh resigned his second marriage in the same manner.

    • ronnie never had a second wife, so that’s impossible!

      • Sherbet

        And he never had a PhD, so it all fits.

  • Princess Squishy

    This post election world is getting too much for me. I think I’m going to name Mr. Pickles as my emotional support animal. Hopefully only 3-4 more days before his transformation!
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e3cae0d0377dca28f9bf120ef6c30c54987934914fba11243ec4e9ef0941071f.jpg

    • Rasha

      I am so excited to see this!

      • salin

        The awesomeness of nature.

        • Princess Squishy

          he attached himself to the cloth in the background there (its a pouch for a macro clip on lens for a cell phone) practically right away when I put him on it. That’s how I managed to get the one of him hanging from it that I posted the other day. Yesterday a single butterfly enclosure arrived for him and I had to figure out how to detach him from the pouch and get him to attach to the enclosure. I had to use something to sever the pieces of thread that he had grabbed, it was kind of like velcro. Then I put him in the enclosure with the same part against the netting and he didn’t grab on. So I left the enclosure laying on it’s side with him laying in there with the grabby part against the mesh and left the bedroom to watch TV. 5 hours later as I was getting ready for bed he still hadn’t attached (when I moved it he rolled, so he was absolutely not attached) and I wasn’t sure what I was going to do. So I went to set the enclosure upright, and I was going to maybe find a good place just to leave it on it’s side or something, but I set it upright and that meant that he was going to roll to the bottom of the enclosure, and then I looked in and he had grabbed onto the side suddenly. Like he had hours to do it, and he waited until I had decided it wasn’t going to happen. So I put the stick in the enclosure that the butterfly will climb on to stretch and dry it’s wings and then hung the enclosure on the wall since it came with a handle.

    • Princess Squishy
  • BosonStark

    Whether Dr. Hubbard was a doctor or not, he brought his message of hope, and how people should spend a lot of money on Scientology to get it, along with him.

  • Sherbet

    Observer, I think the “I feel pretty” shoop would be appropriate right about now.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      ^^^^^^

    • Observer
      • Sherbet

        Now I’m happy.

        • Graham

          Now I’m searching for the brain bleach!

          • Sherbet

            Observer had posted that repeatedly before I realized it was a shoop.

      • salin

        Eeeps!

      • Newiga

        Someone should give him make-up and fashion tips. He does NOT know his colors.

        • Sherbet

          Is he a Winter? He should have had his colors done.

          • Newiga

            He should’ve! Aren’t red heads usually autumn?

      • LongtimeLurker

        Christ. I click on it every time.

      • Juicer77

        XD

      • This hairy chest and the national costume excites me!

  • Anony-Lurker

    I know this is a Scientology room, so the last word off topic I’ll say is that with all the talk about Trump, no one has mentioned that the new VP is Pence, who is equally bad. Sure he is an experienced politician but…..

    • ze moo

      Pence will have a loud voice in the Trumpy Admin. He needs to watched like a hawk watches a rabbit.

      • Anony-Lurker

        Agreed, he very dangerous.

    • kemist

      He’s the dude you get if the Donald gets impeached, right ?

      Don’t know what’s worse. Purposeful theocratic evil or selfish, stupid evil ?

    • chukicita
      • MarcabExpat

        OH LORD IF ONLY.

      • Anony-Lurker

        Andy Kaufman? Excellent!!!!

    • MarcabExpat

      “… he will usher in the Republic of Gilead.”

      there, finished that for you.

  • David Arum

    There is a rub in that many degrees and even concepts devolving from legitimate universities and colleges are also bogus.

    • chukicita

      Could you name one, please? One that would not be subject to peer review?

      EDIT: I wouldn’t say “many.” Academic freedom allows for — and needs — concepts to be aired, even hinky ones. They won’t survive long in free discourse, only in closed systems like Scientology.

      • David Arum

        The mention of “peer review ” is interesting .This imprimatur became popular during the mid twentieth century ,before that scholars and scientists needed the approval a university ,college or professional association The peerage is nameless and faceless ;thus ,it is not responsible. “Peer review” does not guarantee dishonesty.It does ,however guarantee that the theses is accord with moneyed and powerful individuals .
        No university would give imprimatur to Freud or Wundt ,likewise L.Ron Hubbard.

        • chukicita

          In my experience working for a decade at a state University, the “peerage” wasn’t nameless or faceless. And it worked to helped demand responsibility from people making claims that couldn’t be backed up with accepted measurements. No, peer review doesn’t guarantee dishonesty, but it also doesn’t go away. Everything is up for constant review.

          • David Arum

            Peer review is a reality .The system which existed before peer review was popularized was better at keeping out fraud ,but it also suppressed some honest theses .

    • kemist

      Theology and chiropractic come to mind.

      But theology in canadian unis is more of a religion-oriented socio / anthropology thing, and chiropractic more or less a glorified, overlong degree for a PT.

      We’re a bit less tolerant of bullshit.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        “We’re a bit less tolerant of bullshit.”

        *sigh* I’m starting to long for your country. 🙂

        • kemist

          Careful, we’re full of socialist cooties, think gun control is a good thing and have legalized medical euthanasia (that’s in my province only ’til now).

          We’re still working on that death panel stuff though.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            I’m a gun owner and I think gun control is a good thing. I’m not so in love with guns that I’d have a problem not having one. The times that I even have a gun with me are very few and far between.

            I grew up with a cop as my step-father, surrounded by military members and people who hunt, so guns have just always been around but there’s no one in my family that’s not been trained in gun-safety in some way. Maybe my family is strange, I don’t know? 🙂

            • kemist

              You’re still allowed to have guns here you know. I don’t have one. Don’t hunt, live in a very safe city (seriously, worse thing I’ve ever met at night downtown is a couple of drunk kids), can’t see the purpose of it. My brother in law has a couple 12-gauge he uses for skeet shooting, but those things are dismantled with the parts locked in different places the moment he comes back home.

              Handguns are super restricted though. You’re still allowed to have them, but if you’re caught outside your property or a shooting range with a handgun without a locked trigger guard, you can get arrested. The idea of ordinary people going around schools and shopping centers carrying loaded guns is weird and scary to us.

            • daisy

              ^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              It’s weird and scary to me too. I’ve never felt the need to carry a weapon in my day to day running around and I really don’t understand people who do. My gun is locked in a safe and it stays there unless I’m all alone at night or I’m going to the gun range to shoot it. I used to carry it with me at night when I was single and I worked late but other than that…nah.

              People who stay armed to the teeth 24/7? *shrugs* I really do not get them.

  • LongtimeLurker

    “Don’t call me a writer any more”, says pasty, abalone-lipped charlatan.

    Babblefail Derp: a Saga of the Year 3000

    Part V–Chapter 8

    Jonnie pulled a kill-club from his belt. He braced himself for a charge.

    Terl’s paw motion was swifter than the eye. His belt gun was out. It fired a sharp bark.

    An inhuman scream racketed out behind Jonnie. He glanced back. A pack horse was down, threshing.

    “Your friends will be next,” said Terl.

    Jonnie lowered the club.

    “That’s better,” said Terl. “Now help me round these creatures up so we can get them in the truck.”

    • Observer

      Threshing? As in harvesting?

      • LongtimeLurker

        Threshing, as in borderline illiterate.

        • Observer

          What an ass he was!

          • LongtimeLurker

            Kill-club!

            • chukicita

              To distinguish from the Maim-club and the Bruise-club.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I need some kind of club filing system.

            • Sherbet

              Ladies and gentlemen, you’ve been listening to the Observer-Lurker-kemist-chukicita Comedy Hour, sponsored by Yingling’s Muffins — “They’re oaty good and OT clear!”

            • Observer

              The first rule of Kill Club: don’t talk about Kill Club

            • LongtimeLurker

              All the upvotes.

        • kemist

          “Borderline” you say…

    • I’d get that belt gun fixed. It should be firing bullets – a sharp bark isn’t going to hurt anything. That’s probably why the horse was ‘threshing’ not ‘thrashing’.

      I suppose a horse that could separate grain from corn was worth having, and Terl didn’t want to shoot it.

      • Princess Squishy

        in that case barking at it was probably a good move

        • I was walking my mate’s dog with his young son, once. We encountered someone riding a horse. The dog took off like a rocket, not to harass the horse but to joyfully roll in the huge deposit that it just had made on the grass.

          The rest of our day consisted of trying to hold the dog down in the bath while we got the stink out.

    • Graham

      Once again I find myself in a bookshop with a large Sci-Fi section and once again I find nothing by Hubbard under H. Seems the massive PR drive for Battleshit Dearth has passed the UK by.

      As ever Fred Hoyle’s still there with his genuine 1950’s classic “The Black Cloud”, plus an anthology of three of his other stories. Well written Sci-Fi continues to be saleable sixty years on. The dross just doesn’t stand the test of time.

      • I’ve seem copies of “Battlefield Earth” sold in Plymouth… but it wasn’t in a bookshop https://scicrit.wordpress.com/?s=battlefield

        “The Black Cloud” includes a discussion of computer programming, which involves a description of punched cards. Even now, when that is computing history, the books is still well worth reading. Some of his other fiction was good too (e.g. “Ossian’s Ride”, “October the First is Too Late”).

        He was also, of course, a flawed, cantankerous scientist who discovered one of the most poetic truths in physics – that the heavier elements (including those which makes up our bodies) were synthesised in the extreme conditions that obtain in the hearts of huge stars, and seeded throughout the universe when they went nova.

        In other words, we are, literally starstuff.

    • chukicita

      “abalone-lipped”

  • Sherbet

    In the early 1960s there was some crackpot (King of the Universe? — something like that), robed and with a fake crown on his head, making the rounds of local colleges, spouting nonsense and double-talk. The students treated him as a joke and staged rallies around him. He took it seriously and believed he had a real following. I often wonder if he faded into oblivion and mental illness, or if he ever fooled a group into financing his brand of lunacy, a la Hubbard.

  • Graham

    “a third bout of pneumonia following which my doctors advised me to leave Britain”

    Yep. Caught pneumonia not once, not twice but three times. A genuine testament to the effectiveness of all Flabturd’s “research”. Unless of course he was just spewing lying bollocks to disguise his real motives for going to Rhodesia. Either way it smells of Charlatan. And did Elwrong really expect people to believe he’d ever taken advice from anyone else ever?

  • Pneumonia? 3 times? From a clear? Was that just a “shore story?”
    Africans not high enough IQ to be a Scamatologist? Did they mean not gullible enough?
    Too bad the media didn’t stay on LRH like the Times.

  • FredEX2

    Bravo to the reporters at the Mail and the Times for exposing the charlatan scammer. It’s amazing to me that even back then Scientology was referred to as a Cult and LRH doggedly exposed as a liar and sham. Tony, I was wondering did the reporters back then become targets of Scientology’s Fair Game policy? And what seems to make Scientology’s decision to fair game someone…yet not others who also critiqued Scientology? Evidently they left alone…some who had written about them…but, for instance…took after Paulette Cooper in one of the most horrible Fair Game missions ever written about?

  • madame duran
  • Observer

    Can anyone give me a touch assist? My tinnitus is really obnoxious today.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I only really hear mine at night.

      When it keeps me awake.

      Must be hell to have it during the day.

      • Observer

        I can usually tune it out and I’m not even aware of it, but occasionally I’ll get temporary new tones which are always loud and intrusive. It’ll probably be back to normal by tomorrow.

        One morning I woke up to hear beeping like a truck backing up. Thank Xenu that only lasted about half an hour.

        • Sherbet

          Are you sure it’s not a puppy curled by your ear?

        • chukicita

          When it starts sounding like “Thank You for Listening” I hope there’s help nearby.

        • outraged

          What a drag!

          Good thing this blog is written or your tinnitus would be much worse from all the noise. :-}

        • LongtimeLurker

          Jebus! : (

      • I had it once a couple of days. The sound of a running fridge, so i really didn’t noticed it before i was expecting totally silence. It was driving me insane that i could not find where it came from, so i took out the main switch to the house and it was still there. So i went outside and around the house to find the source. Then i noticed that the sound changed when i chew and now i knew the damn thing was in my head. Stupid body thetans 🙁

    • isn’t there some sound therapy that could ease it out?
      https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tinnitus+sound+therapy

      • Observer

        Nope. I’ve had it since 1990 and nothing has helped.

        • daisy

          i know this is a long shot that you haven*t heard this already but ASA and products can cause it.

    • DoveAlexa

      I thought you weren’t suppose to put fingers in your ears? I could still do it, but…

  • nottrue
    • Observer

      I wonder if the title was a deliberate attempt on Lafayette’s part to confuse people into thinking his drivel was Robert Louis Stevenson’s classic. You know, like NarcAnon and Narconon.

    • Andrew Robertson

      Dr L Ron Haddock was just remembering one of his past glorious lives:

      “This was the first lifetime he had been able to build an
      organization with sufficient resources, money and manpower to tackle the
      project they were about to undertake. He had accumulated vast wealth in
      previous lives, he explained, and had buried it in strategic places. The
      purpose of their present mission was to locate this buried treasure and
      retrieve it, either with, or without, the co-operation of the authorities”

      – Jon Atack ‘Bare-Faced Messiah’ Chapter 17 – In Search of Past Lives

      Andrew

      • Sherbet

        In a past lifetime, my incarnation gave your incarnation a few hundred thousand dollars to hold for me. I’ll take it now, please. A bank check would be fine. Thank you.

        • Andrew Robertson

          (Consults e-meter)

          I remember now! Sorry, but I invested your money in tulip bulb contracts in Amsterdam in March 1637 and the market collapsed. Some investments work out, some don’t.

          Andrew

          • Sherbet

            Mumblemumblemumble, why, I oughtta…

            • Sherbet

              BTW, I looked up your reference, and, by gosh, there really was a tulip crisis in 1637!

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    So Ron the Racist renounces the title of doctor, which he never deserved in the first place.
    Just plain Mr. Hubbard, Ron or Elron.

    Questions like “Where’s my wife and family? What if I die here?” could well have suited Mr. Hubbard at a later stage of his life:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqrKejQTynk

  • Harpoona Frittata

    Publicly renouncing a faux doctor of philosophy degree in sham protest over the evil psychs and nuclear physicists…Elron, you were a completely original character! Unfortunately, you were lying, cheating, scamming one.

    Loved the part of the Rhodesia story where the writer implies that Elron had the $cn squirrel director killed! Wasn’t “shot himself accidentally while cleaning his revolver” the PC euphemism of the day for suicide or any kind of unexplained gun death? Would Elron actually have someone he was displeased with killed!!? Of course not…he’d have someone else kill them 😉

    It’s just heart warming, though, to be reminded that the press was calling $cn exactly what it is , a cult, over a half century ago!

    • Sherbet

      Heart-warming and discouraging at the same time.

    • kemist

      My question to dear Ron after that load stinking humblebrag would have been :

      Yo, “Ron” : what was the title of your PhD thesis again ?

    • FredEX2

      Yes. When you know what they think of death….as just ‘dropping the body’…and how a person just ‘picks up a new one’…and how much they hate ‘SPs’…it’s not difficult to see that for LRH or DM…committing an ‘R2-45’ as Hubbard called it…wouldn’t be any big deal…unless you got caught. In spite of many who think they would never go this far…there are those who have been in and who worked for OSA who have said otherwise…

  • nottrue
    • Kestrel

      This is where I contact the local district attorney and claim I’ve been defrauded and my identity has been stolen.

      • Kestrel

        I wonder if it could be made into a federal case.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      80 grand? Damn. That’s a hard hit. Hope they’re able to get that taken care of. Ugh, Scientology is so shitty. 🙁

    • kemist

      Isn’t the credit card company responsible in case of fraud ?

      I’ve been overcharged once (by mistake – someone else’s hotel room was billed to me) and it’s the credit card company that talked to the people who overcharged me.

      Companies are careful with that as they can lose the services of the credit card company if they are put on a fraudulent sellers list.

      If they don’t do anything about these bozos, I’d take a nice good look at their practices.

    • StudentOfLife

      Hi Gang, been lurking quietly busy with my job and life. Hernia operation I had after five years needing it resulted in my losing all excess weight and my tennis game is back to playing like a pro. I hope this turns into a future story by Mr. Ortega. I’ve heard similar stories from people who were conned by Miscavige’s legion of money grubbing vampires under the guise of Scientology. One day I will write the story of my disconnection by a famous sports celeb Scientologist and the lady he conned into joining who still is not clear after telling me she would be clear in 2015. Now she is just a zombie from her brainwashing, though her mind is still active regarding her public writing. This disconnection has delayed my upcoming Real History of USA Tennis Instruction book as I figure out how much to tell since it’s all relevant and Scientology may have inadvertently negatively affected the growth and development of USA tennis.

      • pluvo

        Hi SOL!

        Was missing you and a while ago thinking about you and also clicking on your discus profile on an older article to find out what’s going in your life and if you have abandoned us :).
        I was even searching photos from tennis pros in your former location but couldn’t make you out.

        Also I was thinking about when and if you ever will tell your – certainly very interesting – story.
        Wow, your story will have a big impact and now I’m looking even more forward to it. Have you ever thought about contacting Leah Remini?

        PS/edit: Then again, of course you wouldn’t tell if you did. Pls ignore the question.

    • chukicita

      ^^^ Wow. I’m wondering where this is, since the legal voice responding is a “barrister.”

      The strangest part is that the person complaining is saying they were never in and have never received services.

    • Draco

      This whole thing sounds a bit dodgy…
      “They came out to my house after I got back from the U.K. the next day and I had the flu and was very tired. I agreed to the $34K at the time but it was hard sell. I had told them that I did not feel comfortable doing it. They had me go online and apply for credit cards with Chase whom I already had an account with and then had me transfer the money over to the new Chase Freedom card. I had also applied for a Disney Card, which had not been approved as of yet and a few days later I saw it had been approved and some how they were able to take that $22K credit line and transfer it over to the Freedom card racking up $70,700 in credit card debt.They came out the following day (a different set of people) and then had me give them my creditkarma id and password ***** see where my finances were at and sign something I was very tired and I thought it was just giving them the approval to look at my financials. The next thing I knew I started receiving a bunch of emails with credit approvals from various credit card companies. When I inquired they stated because I needed to increase my overall credit line in order to keep a good credit rating. I then received a phone call again and they wanted my credit union card and stupidly I gave it and they racked up another $7K on that and another $3K on my BMW credit card. They emailed me stating that I approve the charges and I never replied. 5 days later I replied stating I could not authorize these charges because it would sink me. I then received and email 2 days later stating the charges could not be reversed. I have not been to the organization, nor have I received any of their services. This would bankrupt me completely.”
      Why would anyone give all that confidential info to people they didn’t know?

      • FredEX2

        Draco,

        Regges are very manipulative. I’m like a fortress regarding my personal info…and a Regge who kept at me for over 2 hours finally got me to crack. He then called someone directly that he knew at VISA and told him to open a $10,000 line of credit on a new card for me…to pay for a ‘lifetime membership’ in the IAS. It gave the appearance that they have people everywhere to get things they want. Especially when it comes to money.

        • Scott H

          Same here with personal info. Got involved in a minor fender-bender awhile back and even though I wasn’t driving (my boss was) and had nothing to do with the insurance (was a company insurance policy) I had a claims adjuster call the house repeatedly and demand I give him my SSN. Back up the tuna truck there Mr. I-need-this-info-to-process-the-claim, I don’t give out *any* info to faceless drones on the phone, much less my SSN and told him as much. He had the audacity to claim “it will slow down the claim if I can’t research who was in the truck”.

      • Gus_Cox

        A lot of clams give over their info to pushy regges, and then the regges go and get new cards and credit line increases on their existing cards. Then, of course, they max out the new credit lines. It is common enough that probably every clam at least knows someone who that happened to. I do. Unfuckingbelievable.

        Even when I was in, I always hated regges and I got very good at shutting them down. That’s not to say I didn’t get screwed too, but not as badly as it could have been.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      If true, that fleeced sheep’s story documents criminal fraud! Filing a police report is the obvious answer there.

    • Juicer77

      Who knows if it’s true. The sad thing is, it could be.

  • Jimmy3

    Thank you, Daily Mail and tipster. I’ve been saying for years that LRH killed John Kennedy and no one would take me seriously.

  • Newiga

    “Lafayette Ron Hubbard, founder of the world-wide psychological cult called Scientology, stopped being a “doctor” yesterday.”

    BUAHAHAHAAAA. The snark is so strong in that one, I’m sure Lroon still feels it today on Target 2. 😉 Oh well, Hubbard was a lot of things but a doctor, a ph.d, an engineer, a good writer/father/husband, etc. he is not.

  • nottrue
    • Newiga

      Oh shaddap, Kirstie. Everybody’s suffering from Electoral Collage hangover and is in no mood for hypocrisy and blaadi-blaa..

  • This election was another 9/11 :-O

    • kemist

      IKR ? 9/11 – 11/9

      One of my facebook friends commented about that a bit mystically – he’s a bit into conspiracy theories.

      • Yeah! the notification. My bad! it was september not november and even the day was wrong he he, due to my time zone. Oh well.. It feels like 911

    • Except it was 11/8

      • kemist

        I think a lot people had their shock waking up.

        At least they did here.

        There were a couple important hockey matches on tuesday night.

  • Richard

    I remember asking Greg Smith (veteran Sea Org member at Saint Hill and class IX auditor, who has been mentioned a few times here by Tony regarding the Laura DeCrescenzo case) if Ron Hubbard ever got really angry. Greg Smith told me that Ron only got angry about three times during his whole life. I can’t remember two of the occasions, but one of them, Smith told me, was when he returned from Rhodesia because his futuristic ideas for the government had not been understood by the people.

    I’m sure that’s still what Greg Smith thinks, just like almost all the other Sea Org members and many Scientologists.

    • Techie

      Richard, Nancy Many says in her book that she would sometimes just put the phone receiver on the desk during a tirade from Hubbard. It was just as easy to hear from several feet away and there was no need to respond for a few minutes while he vented. I have asked several Sea Org members who worked with “Ron” about his temper and every one would sort of look away and pause a moment to compose a politically correct answer. Then they would give a no-answer, but I got the impression his temper was legendary. He even says in the “Welcome to the Sea Org” lectures that “Wrath is effective” and tells the little ditty “We all revere Anthony Brown. He was quiet and polite … while the ship went down.”

      • Richard

        His reply to me could well be a ready prepared comment for the unsuspecting public like me. I mean, he could hardly reply to me “Hey Richard, Ron had the foulest mouth you ever heard and blew his top more times that you’ve had hot dinners”, now, could he!

    • MarcabExpat

      Another one of those only three times would have been the time he lost it because his son committed suicide, inconveniencing him and making him look bad and causing a flap.

      Which means the other time would be when he denounced everyone present (his faithful innermost core of followers) on the day he climbed into a van and took off permanently on the lam.

      All those tantrums aboard the Apollo don’t count, of course. Nor any of the earlier upsets that precipitated the creation of heavy ethics.

  • Graham
    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Damn girl, you don’t have to be a mail-order bride. Go get a passport, a plane ticket and a hotel reservation.

      I’m pretty sure Scotland will let her in. 😀

      • Chee Chalker

        She must not know that Trump’s mother was born in Scotland (as was mine)

    • 9001

      If she wants an older Scotsman in London I mighty be in luck!
      PS. Looked up an old Viz quiz today that gave me a chuckle. How American Are You? https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0fb4ac0bca4fe1fec98ba72e7b26cb0a8ecae0be24f371a98278564b1a9f991b.jpg

      • grundoon

        This is frighteningly accurate.

  • itsIBBy

    On topic: Sometimes the Daily Fail actually gets it right!

    Off Topic, thanks for the outpouring of Bunker BFF love yesterday. I havent heard from bff(??) since she hung up on me. I spent a lot of time reflecting last night, and decided to keep my distance from her for the imminent future. She will need to contact me, with an apology, before any mending can even be considered.

  • Hamtaro

    So…apparently President Elect Mango Mussolini received an honorary water cannon salute when his plane landed at LaGuardia today. My youngest son, having just voted in his first national election (and being sorely disappointed) saw this image on our muted TV and asked “Dad, why are they doing that?” I honestly had never seen it before, so I answered “probably to put out the dumpster fire of his upcoming presidency.”

    https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–DhVYyEjE–/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ulckdihayjlqcbjzt0pv.gif

    • Ivan Mapother

      I believe that’s called a golden shower. Quite common in Washington.

      • *lol* – sorry!

      • Draco

        You so bad…

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Has he made people start bowing to him yet?

    • flyonthewall

      how much do you want to bet the operators of those vehicles belong to a minority group he’s insulted?

      • Princess Squishy

        He’s insulted everybody except for rich white able bodied men… so no bet

    • flyonthewall

      It’s a documented fact that he’s ripped off small businesses and investors, wiped out jobs, is a sexual predator, a tax cheat, a compulsive liar and xenophobe racist but hey he won so yay I guess

    • Draco

      An attempt to quench the fires of hell?

      How weird.

    • itsIBBy

      washing the stink off maybe?

      • Kestrel

        There is not enough Febreze in the world to make that possible.

    • ze moo

      The Donald likes his ass kissed. And cleaned.

      • daisy

        Which end ?

    • Draco

      A polite way of saying “Piss off”?

    • I wonder if the people in the fire trucks are saying “you salute the office, not the man” over and over, like a mantra.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      QUICK, can someone talented please shoop out the fire engines and replace them with giants peeing all over our new president-elect’s jet?

      Oh, the horror…the HORROR!

    • Mymy88

      I bet the poor people operating the hoses wish they could turn them back on once President Mango Mussolini starts descending from his air thrown, unless of course he ordered someone to dismantle a first class lounge seat out and carry him down the steps with his fat squishy butthole drooped upon it, AND then honor the shit out of him. .

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Bill Allen’s old 757.

    • Observer

      Oh dear Xenu

    • I would tell your son that half of America was also disappointed (many of them first time voters as well), and remind him that there are so many important things to vote for besides a president, so please don’t be discouraged. I voted for Al Gore the first time I voted.

    • stillgrace2

      I could keep my garden going for six months on the water they used here. What a waste.

    • kemist

      But… what was the point of that seriously ?

      Water cannon salutes over planes are actually a thing ?

      • LongtimeLurker

        No, it’s not a thing.

        Get used to saying “what? Is that a thing?” for at least 4 years.

        • Princess Squishy

          actually I looked it up because that was my question too and it’s not 100% unheard of. I couldn’t find any evidence its been done for other presidents but its supposedly been done for certain people when they’ve retired. So it is something that has happened. Trump or whoever didn’t just invent them, but clearly they are rare.

          • Gus_Cox

            Yep, a retiring pilot will often get one when he lands his last flight.

    • What a shower.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      Did NYC run out of confetti so the city sent two trucks to piss on the plane? I have never heard of this as an “honor.”

  • nottrue

    Relax…I did not vote for Obama and I certainly did not Jeer him when he won…I respected the people’s choice .. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e025126a8ac78ea5b7d0131b5247b73f04be6271442d4aa4bb604d328064f1ec.jpg

    • Robert Eckert

      Dow set a series of record highs in the summer of 1929

      • nottrue

        You can blame that on Hoover

        • Princess Squishy

          and we’ll blame the upcoming one on Trump. The point is that just because it’s high 2 days after he’s elected doesn’t mean its going to stay high

          • nottrue

            Or go down

            • daisy

              The kind of anger I am feeling is impossible to sustain. Relax

            • Ella Raitch
            • daisy

              I loved that. Thank you Ella. I saved it for my socialist friends.

            • Ella Raitch

              In times like this it behooves us all to think ‘What Would Leslie Knope Do?’

            • Princess Squishy

              true. It’d be nice if it would stay high. That would mean teeny tiny good things for the average American. Massive good things for the big guys, but tiny good things for me. Like maybe my husband and I can get a second car in 2-3 years.

        • Robert Eckert

          Trump is considerably more ignorant than Hoover or even Bush Jr.

    • kemist

      Yeah, it’s all good.

      Except if you’re a woman. Or black. Or Mexican. Or gay. Or one of them citizens of countries involved in the alena.

      • nottrue

        My sister in law is married to a black women and they voted Trump…They are not in fear of anything..Both college grads.

        • kemist

          I know that this kind of thing happened.

          It’s puzzling, but people in the US have been voting against their best interests for years.

          You can even find gay republicans, FFS.

          • Princess Squishy

            yeah I know some gay republicans that voted for Trump. I know some Latinos that voted for Trump too.

        • daisy

          Never doubt the ability of humans to act against his own interest.

          • kemist

            Reminds me of the people who inhabited the Easter Islands.

            You know, the ones with the big ass head statues who deforested their own islands and ended up starving to death.

        • Juicer77

          I sincerely would like to know why they felt he was a better choice. Not being snarky. I really want to sit down and talk about this.

    • Tony Ortega

      When Paul Ryan proposes a budget that cripples Social Security and Medicare, and when 20 million people lose their health care overnight and the rest of us lose our right to health insurance despite preexisting conditions, when a Trump-stacked Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, kills marriage
      equality, and guts the First Amendment so our president can sue the shit out of the New York Times (and takes away my ability to write about something as litigious as the Church of Scientology in the bargain) —
      at that point, can I get angry? Or will you tell me to relax then, too?

      If you can’t take some anger directed at a raving bigot who is completely unqualified for the job of president, you’re going to have a bumpy time on the Internet for a while, I’m afraid.

      Maybe you should just relax.

      • nottrue

        Jeer if you must…. I saw the same fear when Obama won

        • kemist

          I think what’s expressed here is more fear than jeer. And also a sense of betrayal – you know, the kind of betrayal that is felt when people keep silent when others get taken away..

          We’re scared too up north, you know, even if the consequences we’ll face are mostly economical.

          I’ve got family members in the timber industry. Too old to reorient their career. They’re looking at early retirement with very little money. At least they’ll still get healthcare though, as opposed to all those people on your side of the border.

        • daisy

          What fear ? What of Obama *s stated policies caused you fear. I am not a republican of democrat. I am a humanist .

          • nottrue

            i didnt fear anything but I saw people who did and they had nothing to fear

            • daisy

              The question still stands. What fear ? I do not recall him threatening gay, mexican, press,or assaulted women rights. I do not recall him having tea with Putin . The difference is justified fear.

            • nottrue

              i know it is crazy but I knew people who feared him just because he was black

            • daisy

              Then using them as an argument isn*t valid. My fear and anger is based on his own stated policies

            • nottrue

              Some feared Obama care and losing their doctors. I know people who pay way more for health care now. I say dont fear Trump. His power is limited

            • kemist

              That’s irrational.

              Fearing policies that your new President has promised to implement, when he is unopposed, is rational.

            • nottrue

              He will be opposed… On the crazy stuff… And if he goes to far he will be impeached

            • kemist

              By who ?

              The ass kissers he’ll appoint ?

              Or the gloating racists and misogynists he’s unearthed ?

              Understand me, I know not all Trump supporters share those values and I get why they did that. But you cannot legitimately compare fear based on ignorance to fear based on facts, and you cannot expect people will just sit back and relax when they’ve essentially been told their lives, health and rights don’t matter by their neighbors.

            • nottrue

              By who… Democrats…They are still here you know….the popular vote was won by Democrats…..Thank you for your stimulating comments

            • daisy

              That is legitimate fear. It is not however the same fear and anger i am feeling. I do not like a thousand things my government does. I might even fear some policies, but i would feel a different more intense fear if they were about to take away my God given rights.

            • nottrue

              No president can take away our God given rights… Don’t be afraid of Trump…Thank you for your stimulating comments

            • daisy

              I am afraid for all of you. I care . Thank you back

            • kemist

              The thing is, this is very different.

              The man has actually threatened to shred trading agreements, take away women’s reproductive right, deporting people, take away people’s medical coverage.

              And everything is stacked his way.

              How does that even compare to being afraid because someone’s black ?

            • nottrue

              The President does not have as much power as you think.

            • kemist

              And that’s supposed to reassure us ?

              I keep hearing that argument, but seeing how little Trump, Trump supporters or republicans in general care for other people’s well being, you’ll have to excuse me for being very skeptical and not at all optimistic..

      • Juicer77

        I’ve heard that somewhere before… 😉 Not to make light of the serious issues we are facing. I continue to keep faith that compromises will be reached in the best interests of all, and there will be enough blowback to stop the measures you mention.

        • Tony Ortega

          Kris Kobach just joined the transition team.

          We are so fucked. But thanks for the happy thoughts.

          • daisy

            I am sorry Tony . I can understand your fear and anger. Democracy in the States is severely endangered . Stifling a free and open press is step 1 in the Nazi handbook

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    Did someone already comment that according to Mike Rinder’s Thursday Funnies, the San Diego Idle Morgue Grand Opening is set for November 19 at 3 pm. Well, who does the Bunker have in San Diego? Such fun it will be!

  • ze moo

    That Recommended heart is not getting much loving.

    • Rasha

      oopsie… #^_^#

      • You!

        • Rasha

          Shucks! And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn’t for you meddling kids!!!

          • Next time we will cancel all your certificates!

            • Rasha

              Hah! They’re in permanent crayon!

            • Damn!

            • Rasha

              Crayola Tech. ShhhhhBAP!

            • I must say!

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Banned, On the Run

    Lafaillite Wrong Hubris con tracted pneumonia from having to
    listen to the effluvium of b/s he was spouting every time he
    opened his flabby lying mouth.
    The miracle is he didn’t get a fatal dose of Fibulitis Immaculata.
    Following the advice of his doctor, he moved to Target 2 where
    he is pursuing his con valescence.

    Hanging in there.
    Hope all my Bunkerue buddies are too.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e0c062dba1b12077dbed80d3bfa8cf7ec167559316004164c97177f5d9f8da97.jpg

    • flyonthewall

      Is this how the racists felt when Obama won, 2x? Is this some kind of karmic revenge?

      • ze moo

        After Roosevelt, Americans have a habit of allowing one party a max of 8 years and then go to another party. Trumpy had that going for him. That and 8 years of blaming Obama for every rain story, frost and sports team losing streak. Repetition works….

  • sizzle8
    • lol the first sentence

    • Nice humblebrag butthurt denouncement.

      • Observer

        Could you imagine Lafayette and the Internet? It almost makes me wish he were still around.

        • ze moo

          I doubt that Lron could contend with the Twitterverse. He needed 3 pages for what should have been a 4 word sentence.

          • Newiga

            So true!! However, I think Kirstie channels LRH on the Twitterverse 😉

        • ha ha! YES… and read his policies

        • kemist

          Elron Hubbard and Twitter

          Imagine that for 2 minutes.

          • daisy

            We do not have to imagine it, it is happening right now.

            • Princess Squishy

              but you are right it is happening right now

          • Princess Squishy

            somebody with some time on their hands needs to create and man a spoofed LRH twitter account. Like that @NexttoKimDavis Twitter account with that County Clerk in KY that was refusing to issue marriage licenses.

        • Internet Engineering Task Force was formed on January 16, 1986.
          Hubster suffered a stroke on January 17, 1986 and died a week later.
          True fax.

    • Anony-Lurker

      I love that first sentence, what an ego!

    • Newiga

      I abandon herewith all my rights and legitimate use of this title as the names has been disgraced… xD
      The nerve! Hubbard could’ve used a ton of humble pie.. Or maybe he’s talking about the name Lafayette?

    • Observer

      “I could with ease defend any use of the term doctor in any nation, but I don’t want to.”

      • Newiga

        LMAO!!!! This has to be one of my favorite HCO Policy Letters.

    • ok! Plain Ron… you got it

    • Gus_Cox

      “The title of “Mister” implying “Master” I also abandon.”

      Ha, and it was enthusiastically taken up by Mister David Miscavige lol.

      Gaawd, I remember Jenny Linson in the Inch Wives video, always referring to Him as Mr. David Miscavige. Never even just Mr. Miscavige, but Mr. David Miscavige even for the second time in one (albeit convoluted) sentence.

  • ‘I, L. Ron Hubbard…having reviewed the damage being done in our society with nuclear physics and psychiatry by persons calling themselves “Doctor,” do hereby resign in protest my university degree as a doctor of philosophy (Ph.D.), anticipating an early public outcry against anyone called “Doctor”: and although not in anyway connected with bombs or “psychiatric treatment” or treatment of the sick, and interested only and always in philosophy and the total freedom of the human spirit, I wish no association of any kind with these persons and do so publicly declare, and request my friends and the public not to refer to me in any way with this title.’

    anything on the books about resigning in protest the claim “Scientology is a religion” in anticipation of public outcry… ?

    • kemist

      L. Ron Hubbard…having reviewed the damage being done in our society with nuclear physics and psychiatry

      That sentence, when you’ve never heard of the ludicrous (and dangerous) collection of bullshit called Scientology, is so nonsensical it’s hilarious.

      • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

        Yes it is hilarious. I think his anti-psychiatry doctrine is most likely a personal vendetta because someone, possibly a Naval psychiatrist , diagnosed him with a mental disorder and that infuriated him. He subsequently blamed all the ills of the world on psychiatry and constructed a money-making religion based on his personal animus coupled with greed. This is just my own speculative theory.

  • And as the sun shone down on one of Salisbury’s more salubrious suburbs, Tubbo bade a fond(ish) farewell to his Rhodesian staff… (No earthly use saying “hakuna matata”—it’s Swahili): https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d0106fad3e6dbaff2a2e9e5baa279cc9e994692b8923f57157b5f445fe33ecbc.jpg

    • ze moo

      What, no fist bump?

      • No: Julius was a Freemason.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      That reminds me: I have to get peanut butter next time I’m at the shops. Thanx, Mark!

      • Glad to be of inadvertent service! 🙂

    • My only only experience with Swahili was in a mobile ‘phone shop. It was late, and they were giving my friend the run-around about a faulty handset they had sold him.

      While he argued with them, I changed the language on all of their display models to Swahili.

      • Graham

        [Note to self: never turn your back on Once_Born]

      • Delicious retribution 🙂

        • Delayed action, too. They were so desperate to get home they weren’t going to notice until the next day, when business was picking up.

      • Princess Squishy

        I used to do that to my friends’ phones. Not necessarily Swahili but any language. They’d have a cool hip new flip phone and I would ask to see it and go in the menu and change the language to something they didn’t know. Always fun times. But that was back when phones were easy and simple. I could reliably find the language menu again even though I didn’t know the language either and fix it for them.

        • His mother occasionally manages to accidentally change the language of her Facebook page, somehow. Once, she managed to change it to an unreadable (to us) script.

          The only way to fix that (since you don’t know which one is English) is to try each language in turn. That can take a long time.

          • Princess Squishy

            When my boss broke down and got a smart phone and started texting for the first time her son texted her that her texts were coming through in Spanish and that there was something wrong with her phone. She texted me and asked if I could read her text because her son said that. I thought that was a great great prank

  • joan nieman

    Here it is, read all about it if you dare to go on the internet….all ye of scientology. Read it and weep. You have been conned to the utmost degree. Get out now!

  • nottrue
    • Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t co-dependency a bad thing?

      • Anony-Lurker

        In the 1990’s there was a huge huge industry built on correcting co-dependency.
        It started w/ the book, “Co-dependent No More” and started a large 12 step industry, with stores books, pins, jewelry etc.

        Yup it was supposed to be a bad thing.

        • I have been to CODA. My therapist suggested it would help with my recovery from my experiences in Scientology.

          • Anony-Lurker

            Did it??

            • Not really. I mean I had co-dependency issues in the past, but by the time this was recommended to me I was well into my recovery. My real issue was a lack of self-importance caused by Scientology. My friends helped me gain that back, and the year+ of therapy I had before I started going to CODA helped as well.

            • Anony-Lurker

              I’m glad you’re out and things are much better!

            • Thanks man. They certainly are better!

            • The Dark Avenger

              “I’m smart enough, and good enough, and doggonit, people like me!”

  • Can we stop with the extremist political rhetoric up in here. It looks like my Facebook feed, except that my Facebook feed is filled with people on all sides of the spectrum. No matter who or what you voted for, you’re all good in my book. I am still pretty butt hurt that my party lost, but hey you cant win ’em all.

    • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

      It will wind down. People just need to vent and at least they feel like this is a safe place to do so. This too shall pass.

      • Venting is cool. Just not the part where people occasionally insult the people who didn’t vote the same way they did. That’s more what I’m talking about.

        • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

          On that we can agree…I don’t like that either.

          • I sure 90% of my extended family voted for Trump and I would never dream of insulting them for it.

            • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

              Yup…..some of my siblings voted for Trump as well…and some of us voted for Clinton. . We have stayed away from the topic.

            • I don’t like to avoid the topic. I cherish other people’s points of view on things like that.

            • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

              Well in my family it is best not to discuss it……everyone is extremely Type A and sparks will ensue. I like hearing other people’s point of view however.

            • It was difficult for me to stop feeling to urge to tell people they were wrong and even more difficult to understand that “different” doesn’t mean “wrong”.

            • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

              I can understand that, given that you were in a cult that like most cults are controlled by snitching and punishing. One of the hardest parts of helping people re-acclimate from cults is getting them to let go of the rigidity and the built-in guilt. In the case of the cult survivors I have worked with its a religious thing…..they have a really hard time not believing that they are going to literally burn in hell for leaving, and are afraid of God’s eternal punishment. It takes a long time for them to turn that around.

            • daisy

              The problem for me is that I do not think of tolatarian and govt. suppressive governments as different . I do not think bigotry, racism and mysogany as different . It is wrong. I have never told someone they were wrong, but i have told them they were misinformed.( lots of spelling mistakes , but I do not care.

            • The problem is that you are transferring all the qualities of the candidate that someone voted for onto the voter. That’s not right. I am nothing like Hillary. It is the fundamental attribution error.

            • daisy

              I absolutely agree with that. There are a whole room full of politicians i wouldn*t have tea with. It is policies i disagree with. I try to make it clear that it is an issue difference and not a personal one.

            • pluvo

              I have a question Derek. Don’t have people to be registered (all the time) in the US in the cities and villages where they live?
              Here in Europe you have to be registered where you live and when there are elections you just go there, show your ID and vote.

            • Same here. You register when you are 18 and re-register every time you change addresses. It’s a simple process. Some states require ID, some don’t. You just tell them your name and sign on the register book that you were there. I register as absentee so my ballot is mailed to me and I fill it out at home and mail it back.

            • pluvo

              But I heard that people couldn’t vote because they didn’t register before. Why is that?

            • Those people have either never registered to vote, or likely they moved and didn’t re-register. If you do not re-register you can still vote, but you have to return to the last place you were registered. Cities are split into districts and each district has a polling place. The polling places keep track of who in the area has voted.

              If you don’t re-register when you move, then the local polling place has no record of you, so they can’t record your vote. They can give you a provisional ballot, but that has to be mailed to the Secretary of State and be compared against the statewide voter register to make sure you didn’t double-vote before it can be counted.

              For people who never registered, they had to have done that intentionally for whatever reason.

            • pluvo

              Thank you!

            • Anony-Lurker

              I found that to try to talk with a Trump supporter, just in a conversation or to ask them nicely why, they get really angry real fast and start to parrot Trump-isms. I find this very frustrating.

            • kemist

              I would remind them of what eventually happens when you keep silent when other people’s rights get taken away.

            • daisy

              All that is needed for evil to flourish is good men to stay quiet.

            • daisy

              I have no problem discussing calmly or listening to their views. I have a big problem with them repeating Trumps lies as if they were the truth.

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      Yes, it was very tough to see Clay Bock go down in flames.

      • Has his declare order been issued? He is, after all, a complete failure. He must have out ethics or the tech would have guaranteed a win.

        • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

          Not only was his declare issued, but Bock is now being used as an example with children of what happens when you have other fish to fry and aren’t going up your Bridge on GAT II or serving in the SO. “Little Timmy! Get back on course or you’ll grow up to be a horrible 1.1 DB like that SP Clay Bock!”

          • We’ll be sure to welcome him to the team, thanks! Now that you’re talking about frying fish, I am hungry.

        • Harpoona Frittata

          Of course it would have if he had not been ambushed by his former volunteer OSA co-cultist, who exposed his evil $cilon ways for all to see. That was nothing but fun listening to Oaty Clay fail miserably in trying to normalize stalking and harassment 😉

          Remember, friends don’t let friends do $cn!

    • Juicer77

      I knew I love you for a reason. I have avoided FB like the plague since Monday. May poke my nose back in next week. Until then I am sitting by a crackling fire having a glass of New Zealand sauvignon blanc. Join me?

      • I will gladly join you!

    • Jimmy3

      Can we STOP BEING REASONABLE AND GET ANGRY???

      Or not. It’s all good. I want the anger tho.

      • Cool. So you’re a troll.

        • Jimmy3

          Is that going to be illegal in Trump’s America?

          • Tony Ortega

            You can bet he’s going to try!

          • Sure. Whatever kind of horrible fearful scenario you want to cook up feed the masses

          • kemist

            Yes.

            But you’ll keep your gun.

      • Anony-Lurker

        Anger is good and healthy and we deserve it at the moment.

        • Cool. Let’s all get angry. And then what do we do? Should we riot? Or like break things? Or flip a car or two?

          • Anony-Lurker

            Of course not, but there are healthy ways to express anger. Ever hear of Peaceful protests? Ever hear of Ghandi?

          • daisy

            That is a reactionary comment not based in information. Just because a few of us are pissed scared and worried for our fellow man does not mean we would condone violence of any kind. If Tony doesn*t mind us blowing off steam. I will continue to do so for a while.You however have a solution .

          • TheLurkingHorror

            Anger doesn’t have to result in destructive behavior. I think it is important to recognize one’s own anger, but to try to hold on to it is, of course not a good idea. But I think constructive things can come from anger, it’s just a matter of how one chooses to direct it.

            • I spent most of my childhood through my early adulthood internalizing anger and using it to fuel myself into breaking away from my dependency on my family. So yes. I know this. Sorry that my sarcasm gets lost. I am frustrated that people are just now, at this point getting angry and protesting Trump. Just because he won. If you want to change the outcome of something, you don’t wait until it’s over ffs.

            • kemist

              Hopefully that’ll be a lesson people won’t forget.

            • I’m sure that no one will forget.

            • TheLurkingHorror

              Point taken. As for your original post, I agree. I don’t like shit stirring and fear mongering either (if that is what you were talking about). I don’t know what Trump will be able to get away with while he is in office, but I hope that calmer heads in both parties will not let him turn this country upside-down.

            • I have no idea what to expect. No one does. The guy is unpredictable.

            • TheLurkingHorror

              “The guy is unpredictable”

              That’s partly what’s so scary about him. 🙂

            • daisy

              That is why i am fearful.

            • daisy

              Your anger got you out of a cult.You could have went along with it as many of your friends in have.

      • kemist

        Anger is from the Dark Side, young padawan.

      • Cool so next time can we get angry before the election or something? Getting angry now is just annoying and pointless. Especially when like 100 million qualified voters didn’t vote.

        http://www.electproject.org/2016g

        • The Dark Avenger

          The question is, what should be done? Anger as a motivating factor is one thing, stewing on ones’ own juices doesn’t accomplish much, IMHO.

          • That’s why I said. If people want to be angry then do it before it’s too late to change the outcome. Like you know, register to vote, and then go vote.

            • daisy

              LOL- as a Canadian i was not allowed to vote. I did my part , bad-mouthing him and educating to anyone who cared to listen. I am sorry it wasn*t enough.

            • You know what I meant.

            • daisy

              I did <3<3

          • daisy

            I am perfectly aware that my anger is not likey to change anything . That does not make it invalid. Would you call grief stewing in your own juices. Let people process this .

            • I don’t want anyone stewing. I want people to get interested in politics instead of being so blase about it.

            • daisy

              Well telling us to stop the rhetoric isn*t going to accomplish that. It makes me feel disapproved of.

            • extremist rhetoric. See now you’re just getting mad at me instead of reading what I’m saying.

            • daisy

              I did see that . I thought you felt my posts were extremist . i am happy to learn you do not. I do not condone hate speech or violence either. I am not the least bit mad at you. Expressing an opinion that is different is not anger.

            • The Dark Avenger
        • daisy

          Anger is an emotion. You know who else believes emotions are pointless COS.By the way I think it is fairly uninformed to those who didn*t exercise their right to vote. I hope they don*t complain when the government tries to take away some of their rights.

        • kemist

          If I was the Democrats, I’d study that demographic very carefully, starting yesterday.

        • DoveAlexa

          I’m confused, I was angry before and saw a lot of angry before this…
          Also, it’s only been 2 days? *Goes away now*

    • daisy

      I think anger and fear is warranted at the moment .It is not like losing any real race of any kind. Let people be angry scared and downright pissed.They should be !!!

    • Mymy88

      I don’t understand this thread. I might have missed something but as of right now, I read every post. I thought Derek was asking “can we stop with the extremest political rhetoric up in here”. I think that is a reasonable request. It’s just a request. It’s not like he got nasty or insulting about it or anything. He was diplomatic about it. I’m sure he understands and would not dispute that people can keep saying whatever they want up until the point they decide to stop, or TO gives them some kind of warning or suggestion or suggested guideline or suggested time limit guideline or whatever, Or if someone gets really really off the chain, they might possibly be banned.

      But soon this thread started sounding if it was about people talking how much anger someone else should or should not have. I don’t understand how that type of conversation could go on, but it looks to me like it did, because people know it is not a good idea to tell someone else how angry or not they should feel in a situation, especially as monumentally important as of what just happened when the Dump got elected. Oops, sorry.. typo there. Damn I keep meaning upgrade my proof-reading game. So where did the transition happen when this thread went from “can we stop” to “I can feel what I want”? I

      I apologize in advance if I am not quite getting something or if I missed something.

      • I appreciate you. The conversation just changed a bit is all, I guess. That tends to happen as conversations around here are fluid. I’m over all now that I found out 100 million people didn’t vote. Ugh. That’s the worst.

      • daisy

        You are not getting ( at least in my case ) that I am only expressing my different opinion. Derek reassured me that my opinion was not extreme so I am good. On blogs like this there is going to be lively conversations and differences of opinion. If the language is not abusive I am not sure what the problem is.

        • Mymy88

          No I’m not saying anybody did anything wrong or at least I hope I didn’t come off like that. I was trying to make sure I was following the discussion correctly.

          I will tell you I think I am one of the most angriest people that post on this blog about Dump being elected, but I’m trying to be sensitive about that this is not a political based blog.

          Believe me, it would be fine with me if we went on for weeks with every single person that posts here being as angry as I am and wanting to keep venting as much as I do.

          But I realize that won’t happen and tough for me lol.

          So are we good? You know I love ya daisy!

          Secretly, just between you and me, I LOVE seeing extreme anger being expressed about Dump being elected, here and I would love to keep seeing A LOT of that but I’m not king of the world and that’s a good thing lol.

          ETA: Just to be clear. I will probably be exploding with anger about the Dump and posting about it but I’m hoping it won’t be more than 30 posts a day. I hope I have enough restraint to not go over that lol.

    • gtsix

      Well, as you put it so nicely. No. Soon, yes, but for today, nope.

      • I love straight answers!

      • Wait gay answers are okay with me too.

        Wait bisex—-you know what. I just like answers okay.

        • gtsix

          You know I heart ya kiddo.

          • Likewise! I like that we can disagree and still get along. That’s my favorite kind of friend.

            • gtsix

              That’s what friends are for… for good times, and bad times I’ll be on your side forever more, that’s what friends are for.

              Smooches little brother.

            • Back atcha big bro

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    $cientology is guilty of practising medicine without a licence.

    Fortunately, there are real doctors out there for those who choose to consult them, if needed:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLfQkHQlE8

  • The Joy Villa section at Lowes. Add some zip-ties, and you’re good.
    ..
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7477b82ca6da8c7f9071937ac31c89b87069368986de7ba0030fa643e989b87d.jpg

    • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

      Such a lovely color !!!!

      • Also in green for your spring collection.

        • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

          lol

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Scientology Offering Emergency Auditing to Handle Engrams Caused by Donald Trump

    When it was announced on live television that Donald Trump had won the US presidential election, billions of people around the world immediately collapsed into alternating bouts of uncontrollable rage, sobbing, and abject despair; this was particularly true of celebrities in Hollywood and New York.

    In response to this unprecedented humanitarian crisis, Scientology churches immediately began offering emergency crisis auditing to handle engrams caused by Donald Trump.

    The Trump Crisis Rundown is priced according to the severity of a person’s Trump engrams:

    https://otviiisgrrr8.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/trump-2.png?w=545&h=266

    • flyonthewall

      I don’t have any money but I have a lot of Legos, comic books, dvd & blu rays, records and cd’s. Work with me here

    • Juicer77

      Dear Mr. Grrr8: what if the drugs and alcohol are doctor-prescribed? Do I get a cut rate? Sincerely, Juicerlovesbigpharma

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        J77, IAS members get a 10% discount, so if you pay $5,000 to join the IAS you get the discount not only on the Trump Crisis Rundown, but also on all Scientology services, books, e-meters, and even COB’s highly deluxe beauty products for men and women.

        https://i0.wp.com/i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a563/OTVIIIisGrrr8/MinkOil_zpsbff2f4ce.png

        • Juicer77

          Oh, boy!! I can be a mile high AND have mile high hair!!

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

            We in Scientology believe in making money on every disaster. That is why COB launched the Trump Crisis Rundown and is also pushing his line of beauty care products. BTW, here is the truth behind the rumors between the break up of James Packer and Mariah Carey: Mariah is pushing her new line of beauty care products. This is a threat to COB’s line of beauty care products. Accordingly, COB ordered OSA to engineer the Packer-Carey breakup as happened with Cruise-Kidman.

            2016 is a year of improbabilities and shocking things. Just as Donald Trump is now the President-Elect, it will soon become public knowledge that James Packer is back in Scientology. Additionally, a surprise announcement about Tom Cruise will soon be made.

          • OTVIIIisGrrr8!
            • Mockingbird

              Luxurious

    • kemist

      Don’t see mine in there – Weird Desire To Stuff My Face With Poutine.

      Wait… Thinking of it, perhaps that isn’t quite a Trump engram.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        The desire to stuff your face with poutine is addressed in Life Repair. Not to feed you a cog, but you likely had a past life where you made a computation that you needed to stuff your face with poutine in order to survive. BTW, Americans do not understand Canadian snack foods:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vARrao4HH8

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

      We in Scientology care so very deeply that we had our private investigators follow home every Hillary voter who came to vote at Big Blue. That we had to peek at everyone’s votes to see who voted for Hillary is fair exchange as we actually allowed the filthy raw and unwashed wog public to vote in our Org. God how we hated it. The RPF is still white-gloving the Org to get rid of all the dirt and BT’s these wogs dragged into the place.

    • Princess Squishy

      I think I’ve got that cackling Trump in my dreams. For real. I think I’ll just start mixing meds to sleep. Should be cheaper than 4.8 million dollars.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        Princess Squishy, we in Scientology believe that royalty such as yourself should not be using sleep medications. Please allow us to recommend our special Ideal Org/Purif vitamins. We are certain that these vitamins + some auditing will have you seeing things in the correct Scientology way in no time at all. Trust us on this because we know how to treat royalty and celebrities.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e03488fbf0dde5280f00778ad2bcb17552acef5831450a6fcc5efa3797dc4bd2.png

        • TheMirrorThetan

          Ha. I just noticed the other ingredients: Chloral Hydrate and LSD.

    • Robert Eckert

      I’ve been planning emigration and having unshakeable fears that all is over: 940K

      • Stay around. Its going to get really funny.
        There will soon be reports of him not grasping what he’s told by the heads of departments, and losing attention quite quickly.
        Then something major will happen and he won’t know whether to shit or go blind.
        Putin will make provocative moves, and his lack of response will cause serious backlash.
        The generals will be in revolt.
        When he finds out he needs funding to build his wall, he’ll be like “Wut?”.
        Stay around its going to get really funny.
        I give him 6 months.

        • salin

          Then what?

          • I’ll keep you in suspense.
            But feel free to write a scenario.

            • salin

              The sad one I see: Trump goes Palin (resigns early with some bogus reason) and we get President Theocrat Pence.

            • “Then what?”

            • salin

              Think Pence in Indiana…. Rffra (let’s discriminate again… in the name of religion)… lets require women who have an abortion or who miscarry to have proof that they buried or creameted the remains – by a licensed mortuary…. that’s just the start. You can add on from there.

        • Robert Eckert

          When the military mutinies, the US is done. There will be a Second American Republic at some point, decades later, not nearly as strong of course.
          Or if by some miracle, the constitutional order survives, Trump is replaced by President Pence, who has a personal interest in persecuting ME.
          I just feel like I want to watch it from a safe distance. I am tired of being a teacher in a country where teachers are neither valued nor respected, watching the ignorance get worse and worse every year and now seeing ignorance enthroned in supreme power.

          • No, the military will do the right thing. (In my desperate scenario.)
            And President Pence will be paralyzed because he touched shit..
            But, absolutely, watch from a distance if you can.
            And, we have a system of checks and balances.
            Oooooh, wait, that’s not calming, when its all the same party, so ignore that.

          • gtsix

            Frightening, isn’t it. Trump has to stay healthy or Pence will destroy our ability to live freely.

        • kemist

          Putin will play him like a violin.

          That’s why he wanted the doofus elected – because somebody with NPD is eminently manipulable. And you can bet your ass they have a psychological model of him since months. That’s Putin’s bread and butter.

          All those people who are talking about better relations with Russia are deeply deluded.

          Russia has its own agenda, and they’ll be using Trump to further it.

      • Mockingbird

        Won’t you join the resistance ? We can use your knowledge of the laws God Emperor Trump revoked.

        • Robert Eckert

          I’m tired, so tired.

          • Mockingbird

            I feel like I was hit by a truck then put put in the chain locker for a month.

            This is the worst feeling I have had since the first few weeks when I looked outside Scientology and was utterly ruined. It was devastating. It’s called a personal apocalypse by some people who leave abusive relationships or cults.

            That left me devastated and crushed for two months solid. The next two months were a little better. The next two months were better still. And by a year and a half out I was significantly better. By two years out I was doing pretty good.

            But as bad as that was this is much, much worse. I know Trump has used his repetition of simple short phrases and sayings made with extreme confidence over months on several billion dollars of free media to inspire an exponential growth of racist groups. Previously moderate or mild racists have been radicalized and recruited into the KKK and other white supremacist groups. Trump has inspired citizens to bully, harass and assault gay people, Muslims, black folks, Latinos and many other people.

            He has courted white supremacists and surrounded himself with racists over and over. His tacit approval of harassment and attacks in combination with his messages and statements about roughing people up combines to give him tremendous responsibility for the conduct of his followers .

            Trump will annihilate the rights of black folks, Latinos, women, gay people and Muslims and many others. He may destroy unions and abolish the minimum wage. He additionally promises torture, war crimes and bombing, bombing, bombing as foreign policy.

            He promised to crush or eradicate the EPA. No more clean air, water, food or land. Pollution galore. Black folks and Latino Americans ? Rounded up with ruthless police using stop and frisk racial profiling and jam packing for profit prisons that eradicate voting rights, use involuntary labor aka slavery and keep the plantation running.

            Latinos rounded up for deportation also. Gay people fired for being gay and not allowed to marry or be protected from discrimination.

            Muslims ? Rounded up , tortured, indefinitely detained, monitored and surveillance systems used permanently.

            The poor white folks who voted for Trump will be shocked when they lose their healthcare and often the food stamps (SNAP) and welfare (TANF) they rely on. They will be upset as automated machines remove their jobs and Trump’s America provides ever lower paying jobs.

            The resistance must be united, relentless, smart and persistent. Or we will fail.

    • gtsix

      Damn, 4000 auditing hours, just because I want to burn this country to the ground? Fine, I’ll get my checkbook.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        gtsix, hiding behind your Ev Purps of wanting to destroy America are wholetrack Ev Purps to destroy the MEST universe. Only Scientology can help you. 4,000 hours is a conservative tech estimate. Because you post on the Bunker we have to handle those Ev Purps first. A real tech estimate for you is probably 12,000 hours + the Underground Bunker Repair Rundown. Like EST, the Bunker turns on things that it cannot turn off.

        • gtsix

          You’re right, of course, as always.

          I’ll just head to the hole now, save us all some time. Here’s my credit cards and checkbook.

    • Mockingbird

      This could actually sell.

    • Mockingbird

      Is Pam Bondi the new religious outreach Secretary ? A position granted by ecclesiastical executive order ? Merging Scientology and the U.S. government.

    • George M. White

      LOL

    • Mockingbird

      Where is the Trump Resistance Rundown ? When God Emperor Trump acquires Scientology and merges the Truth Rundown with Trumpanetics all critics will get to find there overts against God Emperor Trump and see how he never has lies or conned anyone.

      The new Trump RPF prisons should open soon. And under religious protection the prisons won’t have to recognize any human rights.

      Trump plans indefinite detention and torture and involuntary labor camps for all fortunate citizens who are selected by his racial and religious profiling ethics and relocation officers.

    • Lighthouse

      I’m amazed how many people on this blog still react and think in terms of scientology. Truly amazed. I’ve forgotten what an engram is, for chrissakes.

      • Lionel Drinkwater

        Engrams and BT’s are profitable invented problems that people pay to rid themselves of.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    I’ve always assumed the words “Dr. Hubbard” were nothing but sarcasm. He’s made Sequoia University famous as a prolific degree mill. This gives a whole new meaning to “earning one’s degree.”

    Being a misogynist, LRH wouldn’t have understood the following:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjv1gSPktdU

    • Saw him 10/12/1978 Crisler Arena Ann Arbor.

  • nottrue

    Pupils alarmed when speaker quoted Hubbard… https://twitter.com/NewJournal/status/796816524501716993

    • Observer

      At least someone’s onto them

      • Sherbet

        Not Elizabeth Kitcatt.

        • Kestrel

          I wonder if she’s originally from Hershey, PA.

          • Observer

            Grooooooaaaaannnn

            • Sherbet

              I second that groan.

            • Kestrel

              Kisses!

  • Observer
    • Sherbet

      Stunning!

    • Juicer77

      Soothing…

      • Observer

        Aren’t they? It’s kind of weird.

        • Rasha

          There are forms that are soothing because they follow natural patterns. The French Curve, the parabola… we can continue to define them with mathematics (which to me is awe-inspiring in itself), but the calmth it triggers to just hear, see or feel a wholly natural pattern is best left to the experience. It’s the curve poetry rides on.

          These are brilliant. ^_^

          • Juicer77

            The colors are luscious, too.

            • Rasha

              IKR????

  • Re: Mr. Kennedy who shot himself accidentally while cleaning his revolver – it was either a suicide or an Instant Exteriorization, aka R2-45 process, imo. I can kind of see it happening with semiautomatic in the hands of someone who was never trained, revolvers on the other hand are even easier to maintain.

    That “accident” has KSW fingerprints all over it. Another story that deserves a follow up.

    • Rasha

      There must be information out there regarding the details of the event, which can be correlated to known patterns. There are accidents, and there are extremely unlikely (not impossible ) accidents. Occam’s Razor is a good tool in such cases.

  • Seems relevant: Looking at T’s 100 day to-do list:

    4. School Choice And Education Opportunity Act. Redirects education dollars to gives parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends common core, brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and make 2 and 4-year college more affordable.

    You can bet that Applied Scholastics will be all over that, maybe with Hubbard College right behind.

  • AntoniaW

    O/T but going back a few days, & in the aftermath of the election: I can’t help being perturbed, as I’m sure quite a few of you here were, by the tragedy that has befallen Joel Kerns’s family. Reading Tony Ortega’s previous info, I had sort-of assumed that like many before him, Kerns was in some way suborned by Scientology. But just before the vote I saw this http://www.mcalesternews.com/news/local_news/kerns-ready-to-run-for-state-senate-seat/article_e5a2436c-ec25-56fa-9ebf-b7e2dc5974f2.html and this particular quote drew one’s attention:-
    “I think I can make a difference,” Kerns said. “The position I’m in allows me to see some of the things that need to be addressed.” He said that includes issues such as health care, mental health care, drug addiction and preventative measures to keep people from going to prison, including rehabilitative education programs.”
    These comments would seem to indicate a certain convergence with Scientology’s main entryist programmes.

    If other reports are accurate in stating that the Kerns family had two boys who had fallen prey to the problem of drug abuse, is it not possible that the poor man fell in with the Narconon view of the world, in the understandable hope that “the tech” could help his boys? We all know that people can be sucked in with the promise of false hope.

    I write this with some trepidation, knowing I’m speculating on someone’s tragedy, but perhaps hoping there will be follow-up on this story just in case we’re looking at yet another case of avoidable deep damage.

    • Tony Ortega

      There’s apparently some information about Kerns and Narconon in a deposition he gave in the Stacy Murphy lawsuit. But we don’t have access to the transcript yet (we may later), so for now it’s not really worthwhile speculating on what that involvement was.

      All we know for sure is that Kerns was tasked with investigating Narconon Arrowhead, and after he did nothing, he said some pretty clueless things about it, suggesting that he’d been snowed by Scientology public relations. Hopefully, we’ll know more as trial gets closer in the lawsuit.

      • AntoniaW

        Thank you.

    • Bob Crouch

      Thank you for posting this link. This is a truly saddening tragedy, regardless of how Kerns may feel about Narconon. And regardless of what was the specific case here, Narconon is indeed preying on desperate families! The claims they are making for their “rehab program” are outrageous and irresponsible by the standards of ANY addiction treatment program.

      The sad truth: The rehab field is chock full with all kinds of programs and methods. Pretty much anyone can devise something or other and open a program. Build it and they will come–desperate families and the legal system will make sure of that. And there is no real established science in the addiction field that creates a reliable benchmark of any kind. So hope springs eternal…

      Which is why Narconon gets away with so much, and why their quackery gets rubber-stamped by so many licensing boards. And which is also why the parasitic cult chooses to work this area in the first place (this plus the belief that LRH has the answer to addiction, as he does to everything else, naturally).

  • Juicer77

    I promise no more political talk, but this is worth reading. Some bright spots…. http://theslot.jezebel.com/here-are-some-women-you-should-know-who-made-history-on-1788764645

    • daisy

      That is a morale booster, thank you

      • Liberated

        Ah, there you are. I recall you promising me an invitation to live in your basement AND a ride from the airport.
        I seem to have lost your address and please don’t make me scroll down all the way to find it.
        Look at it this way…. I can cook, I can clean and I love dogs.. I’ll just be a live-in new bff.

        I won’t get in the way, plus all my shots are up to date….😇

    • Frodis73

      Its ugly out here…check out this twitter that is tracking violent incidents around the US

      https://twitter.com/ShaunKing

      • Juicer77

        I get that there is violence going on. But why devote time to documenting it on social media? Not what we need to concentrate on right now.

        • Frodis73

          I actually did not mean to put that under you post, so I am very sorry about that. I disagree with you though, I am glad somebody is tracking this stuff…I just discovered that and heard that (allegedly) 8 transgender teens committed suicide since the election. I’m horrified.

          • DoveAlexa

            Tracking is good, it’s a form of proof. Proof backs up arguments.

            • Juicer77

              Spreading things on social media is tricky, and should not be considered “proof” of anything. I tweet, but I link to other information so people can read, research and consider for themselves. It’s important that information flows freely, but social media lends itself, like Facebook, to quick re-posts and information without context or verification.

            • DoveAlexa

              If a murder, arson, or assult happens, and comes complete with a trial and conviction, does that qualify enough for you?
              I’m not even saying social media. All I’m saying is tracking is better than going ‘I believe this because, uhm, ah, that one time, with the guy with the hair, you know…?’.

            • daisy

              I do not think Juicer is talking about actual tracking. She is advocating not tracking rumor. We do not need to add fuel on a file by accusing people of rumored crime. That makes us like them. A little boy was harassed at school in Detroit because of his republican parents. That kind of action is not helpful .

            • DoveAlexa

              *Shrug*, wasn’t advocating that either, but right now, I’m just to fatigued and dispondent too explain what, on a pure data entry level, I was meaning. I really should just stop people-ing.

            • gtsix

              Don’t stop peopling. Ever. Take a break, but don’t stop.

            • Juicer77

              Good question. My point is that such claims should have links to the source, not just become urban legend type stories. Does this make sense? I feel like I’m not saying it very well. We may be saying the same thing.

          • Juicer77

            If true, that’s horrible news.
            I would like to see more coverage of resources available to those at risk of suicide. That would be worth re-tweeting.

            • Frodis73

              I just read the national suicide hotline is getting overwhelmed with calls. 🙁

            • Juicer77

              And Christmas is coming. That’s a trigger, as well.

            • OOkpik

              I’m super-sad for all the frightened and desperate people. 🙁
              Hang on, folks. Stand your ground one day at a time if need be. Even a foul wind blows itself out and you are not without power.

            • daisy

              ITA Stand your ground one day at a time excellent advice

          • Anony-Lurker

            This saw a couple maybe about 60 years old wearing two huge Pins:

            His said “Kill the Niggas”
            Hers said “Build More Ovens” and there was a big Jewish Star.

            You’re right, it needs to be closely monitored.

            • Liberated

              I bet you money they never miss church every Sunday.

            • Anony-Lurker

              I know this exists and has always existed. What is so disturbing is that the couple felt totally okay to rear it on there clothes and show it. This hate has now been fully legitimized.

              I don’t buy the “nothing we can do, lets see how it goes”. I also don’t buy the “It’s only 4 years”

              This whole thing is a disaster and you’re probably right, a man made construct named God, probably said it’s okay (in their hate filled mind).

          • kemist

            🙁

        • MarcabExpat

          With great respect, because you’re a favorite commenter of mine here —

          It’s only “not what we need to concentrate on right now” if it isn’t happening to YOU. If I were black, Muslim or gay I’d be documenting the shit out of this right now. Women have been being sexually harassed publicly, too. Should they keep quiet about it as in the bad old days? If Americans at large are suddenly finding themselves fair game (so to speak) for public abuse, that is priority number one as far as I’m concerned. Not “trying to stay positive,” or “reaching out to the other side,” or “giving things a chance,” or whatever. Protecting and safeguarding the public is priority number one. There is nothing more needful to concentrate on as long as people are at heightened risk simply from being out in public.

          If you’ve ever been the target of violence or harassment (I have), you know that if you report it or try to have anything done about it, the first thing the authorities tell you is document, document, document. Keep a log, get dates and times, pics and video, all the details you can. That’s what people are doing and more power to them. If we pretend it’s not happening, the people doing it will keep escalating. If every American who is being hurt comes forward, maybe we have a chance of reversing that.

          • gtsix
          • Juicer77

            I’m sorry you have been targeted in these ways. There is absolute value in what you say about using social media or other means to document what you are experiencing. These things SHOULD be talked about and NOT swept under the rug or accepted as “normal.” I guess I have a problem with the “my friend says” or “statistics say” stories without facts to back them up that get repeated all over the place. That’s my only point, because it devalues the validity of the original experience. If a retweet or re-post is linked to the source, I say do it! By the way, I am a woman and have directly experienced being devalued and put down because of it. I hope this makes sense. I appreciate your comment.

    • salin

      Add this to that piece – some of the same women, but also a few more. https://thinkprogress.org/meet-the-first-latina-senator-in-u-s-eec9832b509b#.7oo05lqjw

  • nottrue

    Hilary is winning the Popular Vote

    • Liberated

      Yep, don’t cha just love that electoral college.

      • nottrue

        Electeral College should go Bye Bye says Al Gore

    • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

      The one significant thing about that: it means her platform policies are more popular. Let’s use that and flip the House and the Senate in 2018 – just like the Republicans did in 2010. Never Give Up, Never Surrender!

      ETA: For clarity.

      • TonyOrtega

        Democrats turn out even less in the midterms. This country has one-party rule for at least four years.

        • Mockingbird

          Fucking great. Behind enemy lines in a fucking resistance to a white supremacist regime. FML.

          • Liberated

            The Southern Poverty Law Center is going to have a very hard time keeping up with all the hate groups, they were already “filled to capacity ” if ya know what I mean.
            Now, they seem to have a license to hate.

            • Mockingbird

              Their stats are straight up vertical expansion. I fucking knew the hate filled words Trump used would influence millions of Americans to emulate him. He has radicalized a generation of slight and moderate racists into hate group members. Cults they are, kill they will.

        • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

          I know. That’s exactly why I’m hoping that Trump’s election mobilizes people for the midterms, because we need better than simply depending on the lucidity of Mike Pence and Paul Ryan (*shudder!*).

          Do everything that can possibly be done, as quickly as possible.

    • flyonthewall

      Looks like her electoral “firewall” was more of a stupid…idiot…thing. Yes

      • salin

        That half of the eligible voters, DIDN’T vote was perhaps a big break in that firewall.

        • flyonthewall

          I was gonna say a bunch of stuff about Dems and Clinton and Sanders but *shrug*

          “In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve.” – Joseph de Maistre

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1T6l70XlqU

          • daisy

            Only 2 thirds in this case.

            • flyonthewall

              I no understand

            • daisy

              The people who did not vote and the people who voted for him, deserve him. My math may be off.

            • flyonthewall

              Oh ok. The numbers are irrelevant. We as a society allowed him to flourish. He is our Frankenstein monster

            • DoveAlexa

              What role does the average citizen have in who the republicans choose during the ‘kick off the island’ phase of choosing their candidate?

            • flyonthewall

              Republicans overwhelmingly chose him as their candidate during the primaries. Those are regular citizens, they’re not some secret society.

              Besides, I’m talking way deeper than that. I’m talking about letting him become a celebrity. I’m talking about having tax laws and a financial system that allowed him to remain rich. I’m talking about a culture where women are afraid to speak out about being sexually assaulted by men just bc they’re powerful and rich. In a normal healthy society he would of starved in the gutter or been thrown in jail a long time ago. But in America he’s a rich celebrity. And now he’s our president.

            • DoveAlexa

              And people are being told they shouldn’t complain about it now either… for some reason.

            • daisy

              How would you like to accuse a sitting president of sexual assault, running a scam university and the myriad other crimes this bloated orange creamsicle has perpetrated. It makes me sick that watching a practicing abusive narcissist sociopath is considered entertaining and allowed to flourish.

            • DoveAlexa

              It reminds me of how people gleefully watched child abuse take place on Toddlers and Tiaras.

            • Mymy88

              See daisy? I am SOOO with what you just said. I was not criticizing you in my other post at all, on that other thread. I was just saying I can understand why some people might express not wanting want to see this talked further about on this blog but I wish they would give me a pass and let me scream about that despicable Hitler wanna Dumptard and let me do post after post after post about how much I hate that little tiny handed orange squishy asshole looking mouth face. I guess maybe after about 3 or 4 days straight I might feel a little better lol. I might do it anyways. Sometimes you know I just can’t help myself.

            • gtsix

              For the first part… Bill did just fine. Multiple accusers, and nothing ever stuck to him either.

            • daisy

              I did not remember endorsing Bill*s behaviour. That is the same logic the COS uses. The Catholics are worse, so ignore us.

            • gtsix

              I did not say you did. Jesus, I was commenting about accusing a sitting president of sexual assault. Nevermind.

            • daisy

              I am very sorry, i reread your comment and you were just making an observation. I took it as you were justifying what Trump did. I didn*t mean to be as hostile as that remark sounded. I wish sometimes people could see how comments are made with visual clues.. Again I am sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion. My posts are not meant to offend , but some do.

            • gtsix

              No worries. It’s been a long week. (Hugs)

            • daisy

              ((( hugs back ))))

            • kemist

              They are relevant for what you can do next.

              Around 75% of eligible voters didn’t vote for Trump.

              And even amongst those who did, I have a feeling it was more of a “fuck you” thing, and that they will soon or already regret it.

              Those gloating assholes ? They are a minority.

            • flyonthewall

              can’t reply, flagellating self

          • Mockingbird

            No. No one deserves abuse and crimes. Millions of people will be persecuted. Trump supporters reportedly already are harassing people and bullying them ruthlessly. I am a two hundred fifty pound man that can pick up a three hundred pound man and throw him. They won’t easily bully me. What about the little guys or a Muslim or Latino alone ? What about a black child being told n@#!#@$ are not worth anything ? Reports of gay people being attacked by a crowd of Trump supporters are coming in.

            These people don’t deserve this. Life is patently unfair and brutal. We need to be decent if we want any decency to exist.

        • Mockingbird

          President Barack Obama has seventy million people vote for him. I think the loss of over ten million votes is incredibly relevant.

          • salin

            Big and relevant point.

            Doesn’t negate that for decades (or more?) more than half of eligible voters don’t vote in presidential elections. Even more don’t vote in non presidential election year elections.

            • Mockingbird

              Yes. To understand this we need to deal with a lot of relevant information. I recently saw an article in which someone said to be a critical thinker you must be able to memorize lots of information.

              I would say you must be able to retain it and compare it.

            • salin

              Good point – and one worth fleshing out. But for me, not til later. Have to crash – and have long work commutes and obligations tomorrow.

        • Liberated

          I was afraid apathy would be the enemy, and all this time I thought I was lucky I didn’t have to wait at all. Now I know why.

          • salin

            Sadly, it isn’t new. It is even worse during elections that are non presidential elections. I haven’t looked it up, and could be wrong, but I would venture to guess that are eligible voter/actual voter rate is among the lowest of advanced/industrial nations. Less than 1/4 of our population votes/pics our presidents. What does that say about us as a society?

  • Rasha

    Last night of 24/7 On-Call for work. Hoping I can skate by without a frenzied customer needing everything to be fixed RIGHT NOW at 3:00 AM……

    …just 14 more hours….. please please please don’t ring, phone…..

    • kemist

      Ehehe…

      You sound like me when it’s my month of support duty. 😛

      • Rasha

        MONTH??? Ack!!! Let me have my self-misery, Kem!!!!

  • Ann B Watson

    Thank you for theseAfter a few months in Sea Org I knew all about R2-45,and in my last year I was told to consider it.But in 74 until I started getting letters about it,I wasn’t thinking about the implications.However I can recall at least six or seven cosers who had come to ASHO for courses or auditing who later had passed in a ” suicide “.Either their families or loved ones wrote me & all said they did not believe the person shot themselves intentionally.It is so sad that this”religion” hides still behind the dark cloak,their actual reality,and the reverse of their cloak is smoke & mirrors slowly fading more each new day.So the dark cloak of their un-ethical,money grubbing,false OT dreams Church becomes their last bastion.I know the fight to end Disconnection,Fair Gaming and Knowledge Reports all under the chains of KSW David’s Way will continue but I feel the truth will slowly out.The RTC is a glittering scam not spiritual in the least,unless one counts some of the mountain views.♥️

    • Liberated

      So glad you’re out.

      • Ann B Watson

        Thank you from my heart.I would be long gone by now if that small spark of doubt had not continued burning until it exploded and I blew.❤️

        • Liberated

          I’ve learned to love, respect and listen to that small spark of doubt.

          • Ann B Watson

            Yes, I have also.Now as compared to Sea Org days and beyond for some years when I was being pulled back in,I rejoice that I can be me and I can decide for me and it is so incredible to realize that I am the guardian of my soul,not any PL or GO I order can eliminate that fact.Love your comments.💞

      • Rasha

        Hear, hear!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      My God Ann, multiple suicides being covered up by Co$ – that is really shocking, and I thought I had heard it all. Back to the old saying, Scientology – it’s always worse then you think.

      • Ann B Watson

        Oh yes it really is and what those Sea Org members under dm went through long time members who gave their all and were thrown in The Hole,and got out eventually.They are on my heroes list.Just when you think there is nothing more to uncover about the cult,dm carves out another mountain and orders another mega mega mansion built for Ron’s Return.But the Internet has become his enemy & I love that!💖

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          My family member thinks he walks on water, this after several years in the Hole as I have been told be ex-members who were in with him, and saw him emotionally brutalized.

  • Rasha

    *taps calculator… looks at clock… taps…..checks comment number…* We should have a LOT more heart clicks….

    • Ann B Watson

      You just might get them!💖

      • Rasha

        ^_^

  • Rasha

    I backed away from the forest a bit today, because the trees were getting too in-the-way. There were still thorns and prickers in the weeds, but I did notice the sky was still huge. And tonight, with a half moon approaching a brilliant supermoon soon, on my Dad’s birthday, the sky is cold and brilliant.

    I stood for a while, head up, as the new stars cooled into my eyes, my feet the only things in contact with the Pale Blue Dot for a while….

    …I remembered something that made me really laugh today… I ran inside – my perspective corrected.

    • Sherbet

      Dayum, that’s better than a haiku. 😉

      • Rasha

        I just… needed to.

        • Sherbet

          You’re a deep little nail gunner, aren’t you.

          • Rasha

            Pfft. *falls asleep on arm*

            edited for sleepy typing of “alseep”… BAHAHAHA!!!!

    • Thank you for that.

      • Rasha

        *stares at same sky… nods*

  • Overheard at Union Square 👂: Guy: "Is this the Anti-Trump protest?" Lady: "Yeah."Guy: "How long does it last?"Lady: "Four years." pic.twitter.com/TgaQ1rDyVz— NUFF$AID (@nuffsaidNY) November 10, 2016

    • Now this is good.

      • Mockingbird

        Good bye gay rights. Trump’s a fucking fascist.

    • Four years? Nah. Maybe six months… until he’s impeached.

      • gtsix

        Nope. The Repubs hold congress.

        • I’m still hoping he’ll prove such a liability even the Tea Party will be glad to see the back of him.

  • Off topic. Just finished watching Hell Or High Water.

    Critics like it and I do too. Good movie.

    Lots of Texan accent. Makes me read y’all posts like that.

    • Rasha

      y’reckon?

  • flyonthewall

    nasty women make good rock song musical ditty

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT6oZGThwis

    • Chee Chalker

      Great song!

  • Mockingbird

    Hate crimes are through the roof by Trump supporters. The KKK announced a Trump victory parade. I am in hell.

    • Mymy88

      Oh cool. I was beginning to feel like I was the only one.

    • OOkpik

      Trump needs to step up and talk some sense into them!
      ….never mind. 🙁

      • Mymy88

        Pfft, it would all be nod nod wink wink, you know?

      • daisy

        That is what needs to be done. What he is likely to do is hire a lawyer for the perpertator

      • kemist

        Bwahahahahahahahah…

        Sorry I’m a black humor kind of person.

        Thing is, he can’t even talk sense into himself.

    • Anony-Lurker

      I’m much angrier at the people who voted for him and people like Paul Ryan.
      The whole thing is still not real (at least to me), I cannot even believe Trump would implement some of what he says, but than again I never thought he would win, so my records is pretty dismal.

  • beetee

    I remember when I was given a book by a family member showing me Dr Hubbard DID call himself – DR HUBBARD.

    “All about Radiation” by Dr. L Ron Hubbard

    He gave it to me…I had it in my hands…and there it was – DR L RON HUBBARD

    LOL and CRINGE!

    I got in their face because the staff told me SP’s made that all up – he never called himself a DOCTOR. It was the SP’s trying to make him like a crazy man.

    CRINGING

    He was a crazy man and my relative was right!!

    • Rasha

      *skootches* Sit. More pies over here, OOkpik!!

    • chukicita

      I read that book because we had it in the library at the university where I worked. But it was by A Nuclear Physicist and A Medical Doctor. It was hilariously horrible, even for Hubbard.

      • beetee

        cringing…

        you are right – now I remember !

        “written by a Nuclear Physicist and a Medical Doctor”

        OMG – it’s like waking up and realizing you had given up your life following a nut bag crazy person from “One Flew Over the Cookoo’s Nest”

        LOL

  • Observer
  • George M. White

    meddler

    • MarcabExpat

      Is that really all you’re going to say about this, sir? Why not comment at length, many here would be very interested to hear your take.

      • George M. White

        My take is that Hubbard took a lot of people. He went as far as he could
        even in Africa. He thought it would be easy prey, you know. You read a lot
        of occult books and it softens you head. Hubbard wanted the gold, anyway.

        • George M. White

          Furthermore, Hubbard tempted everyone by saying in Africa
          that he knew Gloria Swanson. I think she had it out with
          Joe Kennedy. Can’t see Gloria with the Hub. Hub invented
          the famous “Joberg rundown” I think, while in Africa. Met
          someone calling Jesus a pedophile. Seems Hub was in rare
          form.

  • George M. White

    too much occult in the vodka

  • George M. White

    you can’t buy africa

    • gtsix

      Of course you can, Toto 1982. Check ebay.

      • Rasha

        Oh, crap! She’s coming in, 12:30 flight! BRB!!!!

  • George M. White

    i need a doctor!

    • Rasha

      We all need them. They are important. The ones who don’t denounce the title, that is.

      ..anyone seen Aegerprimo?

      • George M. White

        patient first – pre-clear first Hub copied it

  • George M. White

    read the occult, ronnie, it will help you sleep.