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How a new independent ‘church’ is trying to wrestle away control over the word ‘Scientology’

ficos2

We asked our attorney and webmaster, Scott Pilutik, to help us understand what’s going on with the “First Independent Church of Scientology” and its effort to get a trademark on its name. We reported recently that tax exempt status was granted to FICoS, which is made up of former Church of Scientology members who have broken away from it and want to practice Scientology’s processes independently. But forming a small non-profit is one thing, getting trademark of a name that includes the word “Scientology” is another. Scott helps us understand what’s going on.

 
Many years ago an attorney who represented the Church of Scientology’s intellectual property interests (and whom I’ll not name out of professional courtesy) told me in a moment of frankness that the one thing that kept him awake at night was the possibility of a court one day finding the trademarked term “Scientology” generic. He didn’t have to explain his fear. The commercially disastrous implications of a court finding any mark generic is well understood.

By definition a mark can only be deemed generic after it has become extremely famous and thus lucrative. This cause and effect is easier to see in the retail universe, where, for example, Bayer’s “Aspirin” had become so ubiquitous a headache remedy that consumers started using the term descriptively, and the term was soon found by a court to be generic. Bayer was a victim of its own success and suffered commercially when its competitors began to sell their own brands of “aspirin.”

Though trademark law is most often wielded by commercial entities, the primary purpose of trademark law is as a consumer benefit, to protect the public from becoming confused. The benefits of trademark law are accordingly extended to non-profits as well. If you accidentally donated to “Unisef” instead of “Unicef®” you’d be understandably pissed off. Similarly, religious entities are afforded trademark protection as well, and Scientology has taken full advantage of that.

Of course, if you’ve been following along you’re already quite aware that Scientology is only ostensibly religious and primarily commercial. Their interest in amassing a huge trademark portfolio isn’t to prevent consumer confusion, it’s to prevent competitors from muscling in on their con. And Scientology’s business side is structured in line with this precept–it can set egregious prices precisely because it can crush competition with the help of intellectual property lawyers. If Scientology processes were evaluated in a true religious marketplace, auditing prices might be forced way down. Yes, Scientology is also doing many things outside intellectual property law to discourage competition, but if its trademarks are found generic a key component of its business strategy would suddenly be outside its control. And this terrifies its lawyers.

I’ve been waiting for years for someone in the Independent community to show up and challenge the Scientology® mark, and that day finally arrived approximately one year ago, November 12, 2015, when owner James R. Fonda and attorney Raymond R. Tabandeh applied with the Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) for the mark “FIRST INDEPENDENT CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY” (Nov. 12, 2015, serial number 86817837).

Scientology reacted quickly, filing a Letter of Protest on Feb. 9, 2016, which letter unfortunately wasn’t uploaded by PTO, but reference was made to it.

A month later, on March 18, the PTO refused the application on the basis that (1) there existed a likelihood of confusion with a number of cited Scientology marks; and (2) the applied-for mark might “falsely suggest a connection with the religion or Church of Scientology.”

The First Independent Church of Scientology responded on September 19 with a pretty good set of arguments. With respect to the PTO’s refusal on the basis of likelihood of confusion, Tabandeh argued pretty convincingly that there was no potential confusion, or at least that the potential for consumer confusion was greatly reduced because the potential consumers were “sophisticated buyers,” i.e., “…professionals, celebrities, prominent business owners and educated individuals, who are more knowledgeable than ordinary consumers and thus will not be confused [….]”

Now some of you are undoubtedly snickering at the characterization of Scientology adherents as “sophisticated buyers” given the buyer’s remorse felt by so many ex-members, but realize that the test isn’t about Scientology’s intrinsic qualities but rather whether prospective members would be able to easily distinguish between Scientology and Independent Scientology. This would be a factual question and could be determined through surveys. Purchasing thousands of dollars of religious processing isn’t an “impulse buy,” typically, as much as the Scientology is geared around making it just that. (Don’t look on the Internet, whatever you do!)

And of course, the word “Independent” right there inside the mark goes a long way to helping consumers, sophisticated and otherwise, distinguish from the fully caffeinated Scientology flavor, as it literally means “not being subject to control, or affiliated with others.”

Finally, Tabandeh argues that the term “Scientology” has become generic and is thus no longer entitled to trademark protection, because (a) the Church of Scientology uses the term without the ® notice; and (b) Church of Scientology uses the term generically, suggesting, for instance, that it holds a definition: “knowing how to know,” and using it as an adjective (e.g., Scientology processing, Scientology beliefs and practices, Scientology newsroom). He argues that on Scientology’s website, visitors…

“…understand the terms Scientology and Scientologist refer to the genus of services for ‘Religious and Ministerial [and spiritual] Services,’ and not the specific services or goods provided by [the Independent Church of Scientology].”

The Electronic Frontier Foundation only last year interceded on behalf of a company called the “Mormon Mental Health Association” when its trademark was rejected along similar lines. Its argument, laid out in a December 15, 2015, letter from EFF attorney Vera Ranieri, ring perfectly true here:

…the term “Mormon” has an established original, descriptive, primary meaning and my client is free to use it in that sense.

MMHA does not use the term “Mormon” as a mark, but instead to refer to and describe the community it serves. There is no other term that MMHA can employ that would convey the same meaning.

The letter includes mention that the MMHA doesn’t endorse or agree with the views of the LDS Church, holder of the “Mormon” mark they’re alleged to have infringed, and that other non-LDS-affiliated organizations use the term.

Getting back to the FICOS, Tabandeh delivers the most intriguing argument toward the end as part of the genericism argument, one that will have the most appeal when (and hopefully if) it is appealed.

[T]o grant an exclusive right to registrant for use of the generic name of a religion would be equivalent to creating a monopoly in that particular religion, which is also against the First Amendment rights of free exercise of religion.

I would expand this argument to include not just the First Independent Church of Scientology’s free exercise rights, but also the the establishment clause, because here you have the PTO explicitly putting its finger on one side of the scale in what is essentially a religious conflict, by allowing the first comer to flourish commercially and placing an impossible, existence-prohibitive burden on its competitor. By the first amendment the government cannot prefer one religion to another and that’s exactly what the PTO is doing here, its presumed non-intent notwithstanding.

So where are things now? The PTO, while barely commenting on FICOS’s argument, denied its appeal on October 18. This means that FICOS has until December 18 to file for a rehearing, or until December 20 to file a civil action. [See update, below.]

— Scott Pilutik

 
UPDATE: It’s been brought to my attention that there is an error in my article regarding filing dates. Because the matter was only suspended, response deadlines are moot. My mistake, I apologize.

The same source that pointed out the aforementioned mistake also suggested another mistake of mine in alleging that “FICoS must obtain trademarks.” Since I didn’t actually say any such thing, I have nothing to apologize for. Of course FICoS can operate without obtaining the trademark and simply wait for the CoS to sue them for infringement, which lawsuit will arrive as sure as the rain. Good luck to the FICoS. — Scott

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on November 9, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook versions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Missionary Kid

    I believe that I could take, at least Indian citizenship, or maybe British citizenship, since I was born in India when it was a British colony. I’m not even going to seriously look into it, but it would be nice just to know what the options are that I may have.

    Because of Brexit, some British Jews are applying for German citizenship. Because their parents escaped from Germany under Hitler, they have the right to get German citizenship, and they’re taking advantage of it because they would still have all the advantages of being citizens of the European Union.

    • Frodis73

      Wow, I had not heard/read that about British Jews applying for German citizenship. Says a lot! I wish I could leave..I have wanted to for such a long time for so many reasons, not just political. It would be nice knowing you have the option to bug out if you wanted to though.

  • Missionary Kid

    Hey, folks, we’re forgetting to click on the heart, just under the number of comments.

  • Sarah James

    Does anyone know how david miscavige had scientologists vote?

  • Mymy88

    Okay, I hate to air my dirty laundry but this is just too good, may God forgive me (if there is one).

    About a week ago I asked my 25 year old niece if she could do me a favor and put a restrict on me when she posts Trump support posts so that I don’t have to see the notifications of them in my email, cause he makes me that sick.

    Yes, I am still very upset with what she replied back to me (even though she apologized later) but on the other hand, it sure did go along way to explain how she can support Trump.

    This is how I asked her: (clipped from my Facebook)

    “just please block me from those posts. No hard feelings, it’s just that he makes me sooooooo incredibly disgusted. I don’t care if you say bad things about Hillary. That does not bother me at all”.

    She replied:

    “it’s rather irritating of you to try and censor me… and it’s against my constitutional rights. I do it because I respect you and love you but it is still aggravating, and I want you to know that.”

    OMG. Umm okay.. so asking her to censor me and only me is violating her constitutional rights. Now I understand why she supports Trump. Mystery solved. I thought she gotten out of that fucking teenage stage by now. Nope, don’t think so. For Xenu the overlord’s sake. I was an integral part in her growing up. Where did I go wrong?

    • Missionary Kid

      She’s 25, and just past what I call the 23 year old asshole stage. Just wait.

      • Mymy88

        Ah, thank you. It’s hard to keep up with the calibrations lol.

        • Missionary Kid

          My oldest came to live with me to go to a local school, which I supported, but then I discovered that he’d started to grow some pot in a part of my yard that I rarely frequented. In California, one could lose their property for doing that. We mutually agreed that he should move out. That was when I came up with the “23 year old asshole stage”.

          He’s in his 40’s now, and long past it.

          • Mymy88

            LOL omg! Yeah, but teenage girls are just soooo damn moody and bitchy. I’m not sure which is worse lol.

            • Missionary Kid

              Have you heard my talk about” 5 minutes for an attitude change?”

            • please tell 🙂 i might use it

            • iampissed

              The one to my kid was always…you don’t live in a democracy, it’s a benevolent dictatorship
              And it doesn’t need to be benevolent.

            • Missionary Kid

              There is nothing worse than having one grumpy kid in a car when everyone else is just going along for the ride. I stumbled on this when, as a single parent (we traded kids back and forth) I was driving, trying to get somewhere, and one of the kids was just sour. Bitch, moan, general unpleasantness was his order of the day.

              I happened to have a watch that had one of the first countdown functions, and I said, “You’ve got 5 minutes for an attitude change. I’m setting my watch, and during that time, you can bitch and moan all you want, but when the alarm rings, you’d better change your attitude.”

              Your smart phone probably has a countdown timer on it.

              The rules were, that after the time was up, they didn’t have to be sweetness and light, and I didn’t push it. They had to speak when spoken to. They were to be civil. I didn’t push it, and force them to talk, but I let them stew in their own juices. They usually ran out of bitching and moaning before the 5 minutes were up, and by getting stuff off their chest, they lost a lot of their anger.

              If they weren’t civil, I would pull over, stop the car and get in their face. I only had to do that once, IIRC. They knew that the longer they copped and attitude, the longer they would be stuck in the car.

              Kids hate you getting in their grille more than a spanking. I never attacked them personally or called them names, but I did call out their actions.

              I didn’t realize until much later that there were two things that they learned out of the experience. 1) That they were entitled to their opinion, and 2) they could control their emotions.

              As a male, I’m not always in touch with my emotions, and it sometimes takes someone else to bring them to the surface.

              I’m going to refer Mymy88 to this post.

              My oldest was just about a teenager when he came out of his room one day, and this is in effect what he said, “Grumble, grumble, sour words, bah, humbug.” I made nice, and he went back into his room.

              A few minutes later, he came out again, grumbling, and I made nice again, and he retreated to his room.

              The third time he came out and started the routing, I just looked at him and said, “It’s the divine right of a teenager to be a jerk. Just don’t expect people to like it.”

              I think I could sell a few T-shirts and bumper stickers with those words on it.

            • Mymy88

              Nope, lay it on me. I could probably put it to good use lol.

            • Missionary Kid

              Sorry this is so late. I was away from Wifi for most of the day. Here’s what I posted to Dice.

              There is nothing worse than having one grumpy kid in a car when everyone else is just going along for the ride. I stumbled on this when, as a single parent (we traded kids back and forth) I was driving, trying to get somewhere, and one of the kids was just sour. Bitch, moan, general unpleasantness was his order of the day.

              I happened to have a watch that had one of the first countdown functions, and I said, “You’ve got 5 minutes for an attitude change. I’m setting my watch, and during that time, you can bitch and moan all you want, but when the alarm rings, you’d better change your attitude.”

              Your smart phone probably has a countdown timer on it.

              The rules were, that after the time was up, they didn’t have to be sweetness and light, and I didn’t push it. They had to speak when spoken to. They were to be civil. I didn’t push it, and force them to talk, but I let them stew in their own juices. They usually ran out of bitching and moaning before the 5 minutes were up, and by getting stuff off their chest, they lost a lot of their anger.

              If they weren’t civil, I would pull over, stop the car and get in their face. I only had to do that once, IIRC. They knew that the longer they copped an attitude, the longer they would be stuck in the car.

              Kids hate you getting in their grille more than a spanking. I never attacked them
              personally or called them names, but I did call out their actions.

              I didn’t realize until much later that there were two things that they learned out of the experience. 1) That they were entitled to their opinion, and 2) they could control their emotions.

              As a male, I’m not always in touch with my emotions, and it sometimes takes someone else to bring them to the surface.

              Next story.

              My oldest was just about a teenager when he came out of his room one day, and this is in effect what he said, “Grumble, grumble, sour words, bah, humbug.” I made nice, and he went back into his room.

              A few minutes later, he came out again, grumbling, and I made nice again, and he retreated to his room.

              The third time he came out and started the routing, I just looked at him and said, “It’s the divine right of a teenager to be a jerk. Just don’t expect people to like it.”

              He got the point.

              I think I could sell a few T-shirts and bumper stickers with those words on it.

            • Mymy88

              “”It’s the divine right of a teenager to be a jerk. Just don’t expect people to like it.”

              Oh you definitely should sell those T-shirts LOL. I would buy one and pay extra if you could add a little addendum on the back.. something like.. and it commonly exceeds into adulthood. Don’t expect people to like it AT ALL especially any generous aunts that you have lol.

              I swear if my niece hadn’t apologized to me for all the crappy disrespectful smart alec remarks she’s made to me lately, I think I would have disowned her, you know… temporarily… to show her I ain’t puttin up with that crap no more.

              I put up with it when she was a teenager and I’m done. She’s 25 and she needs to get her shit together if she wants to keep getting those sweet birthday, Christmas and those “hurray I love you, here’s some money, go have some fun” treats from me. Muaaahahaha. Being a meanie head can be kind of fun sometimes.

              Thanks for the tips. Those need to be passed down through the generations lol.

            • Missionary Kid

              To be a sexist about it, women tend to be much more verbal than men. I talk a lot, but not necessarily about my feelings. I had to learn, with the help of a counselor, not to explode in anger after a long session of bitching or bad behavior on their part, but to give fair warning that I didn’t like how things were going, and that I might not be charitable. That 5 minute routine made their complaining bearable because I knew it was going to end.

              The image in my mind was that of a rattlesnake, that rattles away before they strike. That was my rattle. It let them know where I was at the moment.

              I learned that there were times when I would come home and tell them that I’d had a crappy day, and I needed to be left along for a short while, and that they might do something totally innocent, and I might snap at them, and it wouldn’t be their fault. When I did that, they weren’t walking on eggshells, but they were actually quite sympathetic. I actually had to tell them after a few minutes, that I was feeling much better, and they could proceed normally.

    • Observer

      Unless you’re the government, it is no infringement on her constitutional rights.

      • Jimmy3

        Try explaining that to a 25 year-old female who voted for Trump. See how it goes.

        • Missionary Kid

          See my answer.

          • Jimmy3

            Sorry, and I mean no offense to Mymy, but you don’t grow out of stupid. It’s not a phase.

            • Missionary Kid

              Attitude is a phase.

        • Observer

          I just want to go be a hermit somewhere.

          • Mymy88

            I already am. It’s not helping a whole lot in this situation lol.

          • thetastic

            I sometimes think that’s what I’m doing here.

      • Mymy88

        I appreciate everybody making these helpful information tips for me. I was already well aware of them and so the problem is… when it comes to my niece.. it’s kind of like a “where the fuck do I start to explain to you how clueless she can be” situation so we could on all day like this lol.

        God I am being such a terrible aunt today but it’s a special Dump hating occasion, so sue me lol.

    • kemist

      The younguns in your country seem to think “freedom of expression” == “everybody’s got to hear everything I’ll spew”

      On Pharyngula we used to call such people Freeze Peach advocates.

      Perspective. They desperatly need it.

      • Rasha

        “freedom of expression” == “everybody’s got to hear everything I’ll spew”

        On point.

      • Mymy88

        You know… I wonder if I was that stupid when I was 25. I honestly can’t remember. It was so long ago lol. I hope I wasn’t.

      • Observer

        And don’t forget “You have to respect my opinion.”

    • Rasha

      Censoring someone is preventing them from expression. Being asked to be excluded from someone’s expression is not censorship. That would make “Do Not Call” lists, channel blocking and web nannies unconstitutional. Am I thinking this correctly?

      • Mymy88

        Yes, but thinking correctly is of no concern to my niece. It’s all about thinking that you are correct without really thinking. I don’t know.. it has something to do with her having stupid friends maybe. Ooops, I really need to bring it down a notch. God where is all this meanness coming from inside of me today? Oh, right. Overload Dump is now in power. I can be excused for anything I say or do today as far as I’m concerned due to emotional distraught.

        • Rasha

          I’m Rasha, and I approve this message.

          • Mymy88

            Thank you. I throw myself on the mercy of the ASC court today lol.

            • if called as a juror, and speaking only for myself, i will be turning a blind eye to most emotionally-driven responses for the remainder of the week’s proceedings. do your thing.

              if anyone needs me i’ll be outside kicking a rock down the street by myself while whistling Freebird and/or Simple Man by Lynyrd Skynyrd.

            • Mymy88

              Let the music take you away. Best advice I’ve had all day.

      • kemist

        Yep.

        These people have never faced true censorship.

        True censorship happens when, like Raif Badawi, a canadian born in Saudi Arabia, you’re imprisoned and condemned to receive 10 000 lashes for criticizing Islam.

        Or when, like playwrights in my grand-parents’ time, your play would get parts removed from it by state religious authorities before it could be presented to the public.

        Or more recently, like when as a canadian scientist, you’re forbidden to state your opinion about certain subjects to the media, because it conflicts with your government ideological stance on environmental issues.

        • Mymy88

          Yo! I hope you don’t mind if I copy and paste your comment to my Facebook. MUUaahahaha. I should just change my Bunker handle to Maddog just for today or sumpin lol. This is so unlike me 🙂

          • kemist

            No, go ahead 😛

        • Rasha

          Seems to me that more extreme language is used recently to describe mundane things.
          “You’re not listening to me” == “I’m being censored”
          “You disagree with me”==”You’re a ‘hater’ ”

          I think it’s unhealthy, because overuse in this way eventually changes the “accepted” definition of the word or concept, and discussions end up being a battle of definitions. Sorry, I just think that language is a beautiful and creative thing, that should be treated with respect.

          *hops off apple crate* …whoa, that thing is smaller than I thought — but it makes him look so much taller on camera!

    • chukicita

      Xenu’s teeth.

      Her freedom of speech is not curtailed by your choice to not have to listen to her froth.

      • Mymy88

        Her brain.. on the blink… she has a blown circuit somewhere.. I must locate…

    • LongtimeLurker

      That idiot Scientology troll account ‘wog’ said the same thing when I told it to stop talking to me.

      The right to free speech is FUCKING IRRELEVANT in private situations. Facebook. My dining room. A fucking restaurant. This comment section.

      READ A FUCKING BOOK, PEOPLE.

      How is it that I know more about the US Constitution than many Americans?

      • thetastic

        No one has read it. Despite how much I hate trump, when my 9 year old was mocking him the other day for not having read the constitution, I had to gently point out to her that she hadn’t, either.

    • thetastic

      I’ve always rolled my eyes at the misunderstanding that freedom of speech means shouting”shut up!” at someone is a constitutional violation. Let’s lock up all the 5year olds!

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)
    • Kestrel

      Maybe he can use some of that money for new suits.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Fuck him.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Enjoy Mappin’s winnings, Miscavige. I don’t for a moment expect a penny to be invested in improving that ridiculous hotel.

    • Graham

      Has he started boasting on hid Faceberk page yet?

    • That SOB… Why? Why him 🙁

    • Frodis73

      Oh gawd, listening to this tool brag about this for the rest of his, or my life, is not something I look forward to. He is such a twit.

  • Hamtaro

    Off Topic: just feel the need to point out that President Elect Mango Mussolini, in his acceptance speech last night, felt the need to effusively thank Reince Priebus for all the support he got from the RNC. Said his name several times. Mispronounced it every single time. I’m reliably informed that it should rhyme with “Heinz” but the man with all the best words made it rhyme with “rinse.” Actually said it as two syllables “Ree-inse.” (F5)

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fe0aeae510e7d39a30e644eba55ac43e20d44f89d1db9679f634cd4cd533878f.png

    • A modest man. Then again, he’s evidently got a lot to be modest about.

    • chukicita

      I’ve only heard it pronounced “rinse.” Lather, rinse, repeat.

    • daisy

      Now do your EQ the important one . Also i would be willing to bet your IQ is a lie , its ok to make stuff up now, i guess,

    • Observer

      Mango Mussolini!!

    • Mymy88

      Ooookay, I am feeling sick again. Going to go lay down. Sigh. And cry…

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Oh my God, it looks like they gave him his Twitter account back.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Nah. Old tweets, check the dates. Just a window into his mind. *sigh*

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Thanks NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    • Harpoona Frittata

      uggh…unfortunately, this IS the real Donald J. Trump ;(

      • Ella Raitch

        Seriously?

        • Harpoona Frittata

          Yes, I’m afraid so. Our long national nightmare has just begun ;(

          • Ella Raitch

            Ubelievable. You’d think he could muster 24 hours with some manner of dignity. The acceptance speech he made yesterday must’ve really stuck in his throat.

    • kemist

      Mmmmmm….

      I wonder why he’s so hung up about his IQ.

      Whenever a narcissist insists on something like this… Deep down in their fragile, unexamined core, there’s a seething shitload of inadequacy.

      • Graham

        “Just because I’ve got small hands doesn’t mean I’ve got a small IQ. You’d be amazed if you saw the size of my IQ”.

    • Frodis73

      Ugh, and that speech last night? OMFG, what a joke.

  • daisy

    I cannot stop crying. I guess i will get my winter anti- depressants early.

    • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

      Have you run out of booze?

      Seriously though – (((HUGS)))

      • daisy

        much needed laugh – hugs back

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      In the middle of the night I considered asking my doctor for Xanax but then decided to tough it out. That is when I told myself I will not despair. I will soldier on, struggle through, with my values and morals intact.

  • Princess Squishy

    I’m over here reading a post-election timeline recounting of events for the 2000 election. I was only 15 then so I only remember it was an upset and the popular vote and the electoral vote did not match each other. Trying to see how much of a chance we still have to not let Idiocracy be our immediate future
    edited to add link
    http://uselectionatlas.org/INFORMATION/ARTICLES/pe2000timeline.php

  • J. Swift

    Have the FICoS people looked at more distinctive ways to differentiate their use of the word Scientology? Suggestions:

    * First Independent Church of Scientology, Nonviolent

    * First Independent Church of Scientology, Not the Crazy “Church of Scientology” Featured in the Documentaries

    * First Independent Church of Scientology, Not Associated with David Miscavige

    * First Independent Church of Scientology of Declared SP’s

    * First Independent Church of Scientology, Established 2016

    • Harpoona Frittata

      They may already be too far down the road in having chosen their name, but I’d suggest the very best and most direct way to differentiate this new version of $cn from the founding cherch is to name themselves The Reformed Church of Scientology because, Xenu only knows, reform is what the corporate cherch needs more than anything! Or how about using them both: The Independent Reformed CoS.

    • Graham

      First Independent Old Rules Church of Scientology.
      Original Old School Church of Scientology.
      Fuck-it, we’re Not a Church we’re a Scientology Business.

    • OOkpik

      “Scienology”, “Church of Scientology”, “L Ron Hubbard” – It beats me why any would-be enterprise would even entertain the idea of forwarding any part of that toxic fiasco. It screams UNETHICAL, regardless of whatever good intentions there might be!

    • Scott H

      First Independent Church of Scientology, Still Believe in Space Cooties

  • chukicita

    “Though trademark law is most often wielded by commercial entities, the
    primary purpose of trademark law is as a consumer benefit, to protect
    the public from becoming confused.”

    Like, ‘NarcAnon’ and ‘Narconon’?

    • grundoon

      NA doesn’t use the term NarcAnon.

      • chukicita

        Didn’t they used to, though?

        • Sherbet

          I don’t think so. It’s Narcotics Anonymous, or NA, for users, and Nar-Anon for families and friends of users.

          • daisy

            right, I suspect they chose that name for the confusion.

            • Sherbet

              Your suspicions indicate you’ve been hanging around the ASC too long.

        • Scott H

          I’ve worked with the NA program for almost 20 years and have never heard it called NarcAnon.

          • chukicita

            I believe you. But I do recall back in the 1970s a program called NarcAnon that a relation was involved with. It was in no way affiliated with Scn, but perhaps it is called NA now. There is a similar mention in this 2008 story, to distinguish it from the cult quackery:

            “The Purification Rundown is also used as part of Scientology’s Narconon
            program, which is in no way affiliated with the Twelve Step Program
            Narcotics Anonymous, aka NarcAnon”

            https://www.nolanchart.com/article4811-scientology-cult-tries-to-step-up-in-celebrity-enclave-malibu-html

    • Warrior

      Something related to Narconon’s web sites. Years ago, while looking at the source code (html) for several of Narconon’s web sites, I noticed that the meta tags contained the key word “NarcAnon”. This deceptive act was, I am sure, intended to help steer people searching for drug rehabilitation clinics towards Narconon.

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    People have been discussing the fear of mass deportation. Folks, the immigration law or lack of enforcement of an immigration law is a big issue for many people. Other countries have immigration laws and they are enforced. What kind of immigration law do we want and how are we going to enforce it. To say we do not want our friends deported who are illegal immigrants but have done nothing to become legal, or are simply illegal, means we want some to be let in but not everyone. Come on, we need a system that can be fairly applied. These are cultural issues that need to be discussed and thought about. Are border schools have a lot of kids the border towns pay to educate, perhaps that is fair since they get access to labor from across the border that can go home there at night. No, I am not Republican, but either have an immigration policy and enforce it or don’t. Acknowledge a problem. People came here illegally and are here illegally. They are breaking the law. They know they are breaking the law. Many people of all nationalities are here legally, as am I. You don’t want open immigration but you don’t want mass deportation either. Work on something that would be fair and make sense. If I went to Ireland and started working without the proper papers they would deport me, and they should. I would have known what I was doing was against their rules. They do not have enough jobs for their own people.

    • chukicita

      Undocumented immigrants pay taxes every time they buy
      gas, clothes or new appliances. They also contribute to property taxes—a main
      source of school funding—when they buy or rent a house, or rent an apartment. The
      U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented
      immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for
      benefits they will never get. They can receive schooling and emergency medical
      care, but not welfare or food stamps.

      EDIT: Forgot to source this: http://www.tolerance.org/immigration-myths a project of the Southern Poverty Law Center

      • Scott H

        Could not agree more. Vast amounts of the local economy here in southwest Georgia depend on annual migrant workers paying local taxes, buying local products and supporting local businesses. Certainly a fair amount of them are undocumented but the local populace really doesn’t give a rat’s ass about their legality, only the fact that they are good citizens and, most importantly, spend money.

        I worry about the future of my little community (Moultrie, GA) in 2-3 years time if The Donald has his way.

      • itsIBBy

        Thank you for this! I get frustrated with the misinformed “They’re taking our JERBS!” ( (c) Southpark) train of thought.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        So is it your opinion we need to have open borders, just continue to have these people live with the stress of undocumentation, what? Seems strange to me we are championing the people that came in illegally but then spend so much to keep people out.

        • chukicita

          I agree there need to be reforms, but not for the reasons you cite in your original post.

          I already showed that undocumented people aren’t sucking tax dollars – that is a widespread myth.

          I’m not sure what you mean by “cultural issues that must be talked about” but it sure sounds like you are afraid of something.

          Being an undocumented person in the US is not criminal, but is merely a civil offense. Yet, people are being detained and even killed for an offense that is legally comparable to jaywalking.

          I’m not sure you have made a proper case as to what actual damages are occurring because people traverse the border. In my community, for instance, there are many migrant farm worker families. They provide a valuable service and help farmers to provide food affordably.

          Are you Native? If not, can you please make the case for your own ancestors and how they came to occupy the land you live on today?

          But we agree that some kind of reform needs to happen. In order to get a better scope of the problem, let’s look at another side – one based on life or death decisions, and not just discomfort with someone who doesn’t look like you and who you have been told is a criminal. The militarization of the border is literally costing people their lives. The racist systems that criminalize and kill migrants and refugees are a stark reality for many people living along the border.

          We can start with revisiting the laws that say American border patrol agents are not responsible for bullets fired from the American side that cross the border.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            I actually had to go back and read what I wrote and then printed yours and mine because I had trouble recognizing what you were referring to in what I wrote. Let me start by saying thank you for the link to Teaching Tolerance Southern Poverty Law Center. It helps to know where you are coming from and is an interesting source. I think they have done a quick overview of some points. I believe the USA government has set up some policies, not mentioned by the law center, that allow for easier access to workers in agriculture from nearby countries to work here legally. However, the particulars of all the immigration issues is not what I wanted to get into from my comment. The school example is just an example of one of many issues involved in immigration and the melding between neighboring countries. It is a small piece of an overall pictureYou indicate you are not sure what I mean by “cultural issues that must be talked about”. By culture I mean all United States Citizens, what is it we want to stand for, what are our values, how will mass immigration effect our economy, our limited resources of land and housing. Perhaps it would behoove countries that border together with us (Canada, Mexico), etc. to work on ways to have more documented cooperation for workers and students so we do not have illegal aliens and undocumented workers. The information you link to explains that in the past we had easy immigration because we had vast amounts of land that needed to be settled. That is no more vast amounts of open land. Desert areas need to be sparsely populated for that ecology.. Some countries are already facing the need for population control. Limited water, pollution are cultural concerns. You mentioned fear. I think a very real fear for many is the fear that we will literally be overrun by people coming here if we do not have some limits to immigration, up to the point our economy is drug down to more the level of the country they are fleeing from as most state they came here to get work. Referring to your statement, “let’s look at another side – one based on life or death decisions, and not just discomfort with someone who doesn’t look like you and who you have been told is a criminal. The militarization of the border is literally costing people their lives. The racist systems that criminalize and kill migrants and refugees are a stark reality for many people living along the border”.
            1. If this is your view than we certainly need discussions amoung peoples which was my point in my original post, not to solve it here.
            2. “life or death decisions, and not just discomfort with someone who doesn’t look like you and who you have been told is a criminal” where did you get all this from what I wrote? I mentioned fairly applying immigration law. People can be illegal and not a criminal. Most of the Hispanic people I know, legally here in the United States, consider themselves Americans and do not want open borders with Mexico. They are just as possessive of their jobs as anyone else. I value, respect, love, admire, the Hispanic AMERICANs in my town and they me. The Border Patrol have saved many a life here and have a positive influence on the area. The stories you have heard of people getting killed because they are immigrants or illegal aliens have more to do with police brutality in general in areas not along the border. We had a very sad and unfortunate military training accident where a young Hispanic boy got killed while out hunting rabbits. There may have been other military training actions like that but I do not recall them, that was not the border patrol. The drug wars have left some people beheaded in Mexico. Some schools are afraid to send there students to play football at Fort Hancock at one point because some of the drug people from across the border like to take pot shots at the school. That has cleared up a lot. I totally do not see anything like you describe in my area such as “The racist systems that criminalize and kill migrants and refugees are a stark reality for many people living along the border.” My friends who are Anglo worked side by side with their Hispanic friends in the cantaloupe packing sheds. I was not so lucky to get to do that. I believe in fighting against racism, openly and honestly. There are a lot of crazy people out there, true. But this mass militarization of the border costing people lives that you mention is just untrue, in my opinion, not a reality. I don’t know how many emergency calls our ambulance and area rescue has responded to rescue immigrants walking trying to come to America that got into trouble in the desert or in the trunks of coyotes cars, or the back of closed trucks. At one point drug people from the Mexican side had a Hummer stuck on a sand bar in the middle of the Rio Grande River and had a bulldozer pulling it out, it was a stand off with them having machine guns and our border patrol and drug enforcement, rather than having a shoot out and an international incident they finished and left. Our people reported to the Mexican Police what had happened as well as their government. Pretty good cooperation. That is how calm and cool and concerned for life our guys are. I go to Mexico but am careful. Yes, there is prejudice on both sides, Hispanic against Anglo and Anglo against Hispanic but less and less all the time. There is also prejudice Hispanic against Hispanic. There are all sorts of issues in a blended culture the Culture of the UNITED STATES, a melting pot.

            • chukicita

              We are in agreement here:
              “Perhaps it would behoove countries that border together with us (Canada, Mexico), etc. to work on ways to have more documented cooperation for workers and students so we do not have illegal aliens and undocumented workers.”

              Yes, yes, and yes.

              But to do that, please understand that there is a lot more than perhaps you realize going on at the border. People are dying at Eloy Deptention Center, which is run by a private corporation. The family of Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez, a 16-year-old boy who was shot *on his own side of the border* by US Border Patrol agents in 2012 still has no justice – Border Patrol won’t release even the names of his murderers. He is only one of dozens of people shot. Many were young people. You hear *nothing* about this on mainstream news.

              The impact of over-militarization is compounded by US policies such as, if a bullet crosses the border from US to Mexico, we are not responsible for what it hits.

              Borders are imagined, imposed. They are fluid, and have changed many times for the families directly impacted by them over the last hundreds of years. Borders should not kill.

              School of the Americas Watch moved its annual gathering to the checkpoint near Eloy Detention Center (Nogales/Tucson) in part to raise awareness of this, last month. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/618faa0232c28f511b7f93059c0bbce1782442e9addc0de92dc57728541a942f.jpg

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              Thanks for sharing this, clearly different than my living experience on the border. We have had no problems with detentions, that I know of. Many of our Border Patrol are Hispanic themselves and all seem courteous and respectful of the detainees, ranchers, area workers, etc. Again, I appreciate this information. I vaguely remember something about that young man being shot. I think there is more to that incident, something about rock throwing I think. Thank you for bringing this up so I can research it. I originally was making a general point of suggesting people be open to discussions about solving issues of concern to the American citizens (and our neighbors); but have enjoyed your input and I have gotten a broader view than just my own living area from your detailed input about other areas. They say a picture speaks a thousand words, thanks for going to the trouble to send one. It motivates me to do research.

            • chukicita

              Thank you, Elizabeth. I learned from what you shared about your experience. We are on the same page about being open to discourse. I know I probably jumped to some conclusions I should not have, based on how I interpreted your original post.

              Everyone brings their own history to the table, and it’s so much better when people try to understand that!

    • Mymy88

      I don’t have all the answers but I sure as heck know Dump is going to make a bad situation get much worse in a real hurry.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      The problem is that the system is broken. People wait decades to get a green card – huge backlogs – often separated from their family http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/08/us/immigration-visa-long-waits/

      And many recent immigrants from central america are fleeing gangs and drug cartels, fleeing for their lives as family members have been raped or killed. Undocumented entry is the lesser risk for many, I think.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        At what point do people have an obligation to stay and make their own country better rather then flee to our?. We had a civil war, we fought through it and came out the other side. I understand you are telling me the reason they come, that conditions are so bad in their country that it is worth the risk. Without a country having true persecution of one people against another, is it fair to open our borders and say you can stay but others must leave or not be allowed in? I did not know of the huge backlog to get a green card. Of course this is an important issue of the equation of fairness.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          A lot of it is families with kids fleeing dangerous drug gangs. You don’t tell your wife and kids to stay and fight drug gangs.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            No, I would not tell my family to fight drug gangs. The question is about our policies, our immigration policies, what we need to think about and consider and how to fairly implement how we want to be as America. Do we as a nation say that anyone fleeing a country with drug or gang warfare should be let in. Can our economy stand to accept all the people from all the nations which have internal conflicts. Mexico has gotten so much better. Much less drug warfare. But thousand and thousands of people would like to come to the USA and always have wanted to, to work., their main reason. Their country has conflict. When I went to our bordering town in Mexico, during the worst part of the conflicts, I was given a tour pointing out to me the house were the family was killed by the drug lords, the place the journalist was killed, etc. People were going about their business much as usual and the comment was made that most of the killings were among the drug factions, people involved with the wrong crowd,but sometimes they make a mistake. The journalist had criticized a particular drug group in the newspaper. Right now, in my opinion, our immigration system is very flawed. I think the Border Patrol feel the frustration.

    • kemist

      It’s a little bit more complicated.

      There are people, often quite rich people, who profit from the labor of illegal immigrants, because :

      – they do not have to be given all the advantages given to documented ones

      – they can be threatened with deportation

      These people would not stay if somebody wasn’t giving them the means to subsist there.

      I’d start by enforcing, and if necessary making more severe, the penalities such people receive for enabling that sort of thing. It would make sure an undocumented immigrant does not have an unfair advantage in getting certain jobs, and it would probably decrease the number of illegal immigrants, as fewer people would want to take that risk.

      Deportation will not solve your problems. Attacking its roots, IMHO, would be much more efficient.

      • Frodis73

        ^^^This. I am sick of people hating on others just trying to come here and make a better life. While the people that employ them put up the American flag, act all concerned yet complain about all the illegals while exploiting them.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        Very good point. At one point they did make the penalty on the employers more severe. I have not kept up what has happened with this, if it was repealed or the employers got used to the idea, and are now just paying the penalty. Yes, it did seem at that time to me this would be an important part of the equation of fairness, so glad you brought it up. My father hired a family from Mexico for the ranch but he went to the trouble (before penalties) to go to El Paso with them to the Federal Courthouse (I think) and go before whomever you had to at the time to answer questions and get the paperwork complete for them to stay legally.I taught school in a small Texas oilfield town. Had a student who spoke almost no English. My aide worked with her full time and by midterm she spoke English quite well, well enough to tell us the story about her family going to the river at night where a car on the other side flashed their headlights, at which point they put their clothes in bundles on top of their heads and walked across the river. Her parents employer was probably the richest family in the county, ranched but had oil money. This story does not prove they were illegal. It was my second year teaching, first there, my concern was to encourage her to speak, listen, and teach, and I was already given the message I was not to upset the parents of any children by pointing out they might need to change their own behavior. Much like scientology, given the message to speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. That was a mother and father and 7 kids hired to work on the ranch of a wealthy family. I often wondered why they did not go to the trouble to get the paperwork with them, as my father had. I wondered about the school not having to have documentation. It seems to me we need to face these issues more openly. Our schools are suffering in Texas as the state has cut their funding. They are allowed to raise taxes unlimited, but not the county and the city. My property taxes went up over 500% over the last 3 years mainly because the state of Texas order a fair evaluation reappraisal which effects non-homesteaded property immediately but only increases on homesteaded property (residential) 10% a year. It seems to me to be to the advantage of the USA, if we are going to have families or individuals in our country, that the children do get educated. I saw the interview of a mass of people who crossed in Laredo, they clearly said they came to work before the borders were closed, pause then added, oh, and to avoid violence. This clearly seemed to be something they were couched to say. Thank you for your well thought out respectful reply.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        What is IMHO? Also, I forgot to add the state of Texas demanded real market values on property to get the school districts to fund more of the percentage of their own schools. Our town happened to have gone through a resort type moment a few years ago and property values had increased.

        • kemist

          IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            Thanks.

    • Making rational immigration laws and enforcing them fairly and with humanity (with due regard to international laws regarding asylum) is a legitimate issue. It would be nice if politicians of all nations would approach it rationally.

      The problem with Trump is that he isn’t seriously addressing it – rather, he’s exploiting the controversy and the xenophobia it stirs up in order to gain power. If he actually had anything like sensible proposals there would not be a problem.

      Building a wall is not a sensible proposal. That’s not a political opinion, it’s a practical matter.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        This is kind of what I was trying to say. People lacked confidence in Hillary Clinton being able to address some things they view as problems, probably a list of them. They saw that Trump was willing to at least admit they were issues. If we stop calling them stupid for voting for Trump and Trump a total idiot and look at what we need to address, have a dialogue, we might find out why people quietly voted for him and come up with some good suggestions to solve the problems.

    • Mockingbird

      The case against Trump is not one or two or five issues. Through extensive critical analysis of the man, his life, his conduct and his statements a very strong case can be made for the claims that he is a racist, fascist, demagogue, conman, pathological liar, narcissist and sociopath. That’s the problem.

      • Snippy_X

        forgot misogynist, but yeah, this ^^^

      • Anony-Lurker

        And what’s worse is that his supporters couldn’t care less.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        Mockingbird, Trumps personality traits is just one part of the picture. As long as we continue to repeat the bad things about Trump we are not willing to listen to the concerns those people had that voted for him, despite his problems, and the same concerns that some have that did not vote for him. We won’t acknowledge the problems, have healthy honest respectful discussions that might actually improve the situation, come up with some good helpful solutions, and move on. Over half the people voted for him because of concerns they had despite his short comings, probably hoping the system would mediate the outcome somewhat, but their concerns would get addressed. Trumps character and over the top nature demands attention on issues that were being ignored, that is what was voted for, in my opinion, not his exact plans. There were real concerns about Hillary which were poo pooed compared to Trumps personality issues. Let’s move on and be willing to discuss fully issues with respect.

        • Mockingbird

          First about half of eligible voters didn’t vote. Second he lost the popular vote. So about a quarter of eligible voters voted for him. Third over ninety percent of republicans voted for him, because he had the R and was running against Hillary Clinton. They proved they would vote for anyone with the R. He got some independent voters but it should have been forseen.

          Hillary Clinton has had over twenty years of extreme negative press from Fox and all right wing media ALL of it.

          In psychology it’s been found that if we get negative information on a person from a trusted or neutral source – meaning not deeply trusted or deeply distrusted – we have a lowered opinion of the person. And if we believe or unsure about the negative information it lowers our opinion so well that even if the same source tells us the information was a mistake we usually still have a moderately lowered opinion.

          When you consider the repetition of negative information about Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton it influenced the minds of millions and millions if Americans.

          Perhaps anyone with the R on the ballot would have won.

          Second Trump supporters need a lot of things. First is protection from Trump himself.

          Most don’t have a clue about his statements or his personality. He is going to do terrible things to almost all of them. That’s reality.

          Someone else will have to help them, right now we have to resist the tyranny of Trump. If you listened to him it’s obviously what he brings.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            EDITED: Thank you for sharing your views and opinions with me. After reflection I can understand your points fully. I believe there is room for both our opinions but understand from your poll information that you believe the majority fit your opinion. I can see your point and accept that is what you believe. I am so sorry I was rude, I was wrong to be like that, and sad at my behavior. Please accept my apology. For those who are wondering what further discussion is about, I wrote an uncalled for snide summary of Mockingbird’s post to me. I have deleted the rude synopsis and written an apology which should appear sometime. I wrote it in the side comment area, which seems to take some time to appear and does not allow editing once posted while there at that location.

            • Mockingbird

              The fact that half the people that could vote did not is relevant. It’s half the discussion about voting.

              Second Trump for about twenty five percent of the people that could vote to vote for him. That’s relevant.

              Third your claims about my emotions are both unprovable and undisprovable.

              It’s a red herring.

              I don’t think there are not issues to look into. I think we should start by using accurate and unambiguous terms.

              The fact that about half the people that could vote abstained is incredibly important.

              You can call me narcissistic for disagreeing with you. It’s your option.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              Mockingbird, I don’t know what you are talking about on emotions. Yes, the fact that half the people that could vote did not is relevant, but not to the point my comment was making. If you had simply said to remember that have the people that could have voted did not, I could accept that. But that point did not change what I was trying to say, in fact it seemed you were trying to invalidate what I said by saying that. I felt unheard. I felt you were nit picking and twisting what I said to avoid thinking about what I was actually saying. I was clearly referring in my point to the fact he got half (your correction, just under half) of the votes of the people who voted. To argue that he really only got 25% percent of all the voters registered means pretty much you were not willing to even try to understand what I was saying. Whether those voters are 25% of all registered voters or close to half of those that actually voted is irrelevant unless you think diluting the pool means they count less, which might be a point. My point was that those people, whatever percentage, were enough against a similar percentage from the other side to get Trump elected. I understand and accept your points about why you believe a large percentage of the people voted for Trump. You may be right. I will ask you to remember the polls were wrong. So there were people out there that possibly did not fit those responses to the polls that you list that voted for Trump, and they made a difference in the election. I know six people who voted for Trump. They never would have answered those poll questions that way. Your poll questions do not apply to them at all. They believe Fox News is biased. Yet they felt a need to vote for Trump. Again, I am sorry for my response.

            • Mockingbird

              OK. I think the first thing to understand is about eighteen percent of Americans voted for Trump.

              I think all the reasons why is a very, very complex subject with many reasons.

              I think some of those people are racists in denial of their racism. Moderate racists usually don’t see themselves as racist. They lash out at efforts for racial equality and don’t even realize that subconsciously they support white supremacy.

              A lot of experiments in social psychology and neuroscience support the idea of subconscious or implicit racism.

              That’s one big factor.

              I think hundreds of factors can be considered. Some of which Trump supporters will know and some they won’t.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              In my opinion, people are not narcissistic for disagreeing with another person.

            • Mockingbird

              You can insult people that disagree if that’s how you want to behave.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              Your right. I apologize. I should have reflected understanding without the sarcasm. You have a right to your beliefs and I am glad to know what they are. I am sorry I shit on them. I should have waited and thought about what you were saying before I replied. I have felt ashamed thinking back but had no computer till now to get back.

            • Mockingbird

              Don’t worry about it and relax. You have a lot of good points to consider. It is going to be looked at for a long time.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            I reread what you wrote AGAIN, fifth time, and see it from a new light now. I don’t know what I was thinking. My original response was from the library next to a girl with perfume that was giving me a terrible headache. I cannot think around perfume. Good grief. Totally different view of what you wrote now. So sorry. Just now barely getting rid of the headache from yesterdays perfume overdose. I should have left the building.

            • Mockingbird

              Sorry you had a headache. Hope you feel better.

        • Mockingbird

          I sincerely believe a lot of his supporters are the people shown in exit poll surveys.

          It’s been reported ninety percent of his supporters feel white men are at a disadvantage in America now. About forty percent said blacks are inherently inferior to whites.

          These people were asked what they believe and it fits white supremacist rhetoric and Fox news propaganda.

          They have been questioned and studied.

          People underestimated the extent to which implicit racism would play a role.

          And most voters are low information voters and did not look at the policies and positions of the candidates and parties in detail.

          Trump supporters will be extremely disappointed in my opinion.

    • you forgot your hashtag
      #Ihavenoideaaboutthelivesiamtalkingbullshitabout

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        You have no idea what I know and don’t know. ” you forgot your hashtag
        #Ihavenoideaaboutthelivesiamtalkingbullshitabout” is an asshole response and I am shocked and dismayed at how many up-votes this got. What you wrote is totally nonresponsive to what I actually wrote. I seems more driven by passion against Trump and things he said than any thought about what I actually wrote.

        • You are a bigot. Own it, babe.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            You talk like a scientologist. Old habits hard to break?

    • How much do you want to pay for a head of lettuce? Daycare? Hotel rooms? Boycott corporations that employ illegals and pay more or stfu!

      • Anony-Lurker

        Trump makes an insane statement, his people accept it without a thought, blind acceptance.

        I wonder how Trump will staff his hotel maintenance crews or will he be willing to pay 10 times the money for his restaurant produce? Perhaps Ivanka might start getting her hands a little dirtier…for the family business…

        And lets ask his followers how they plan to pay for health care when they lose their federal subsidy, and the hospital goes after their home after failing to pay 10K for time in the E.R. Oh, they’ll just apply for medi-cal/medicaid, yet they forget it’s one of those horrible entitlement programs they rale so heavily against.

        But than they say, he’ll bring back jobs which were outsourced, but than these people will be furious when their iPhones go up from $500 to $5000, not having a clue that manufacturing labor is so much cheaper overseas.

        And they’ll complain that there are no jobs here, not understanding that there are plenty of jobs in banking, insurance, finance, tech and small business opportunities but they’ll need an education…and now we’re right back to the beginning. People with little skills who won’t do the menial jobs that Illegal people are thrilled to do, so they can get their foot in the door, earn some money, bring their families, become contributing citizens sending their children to school so they do can contribute and add to our society.

        Sorry, I got carried away, I just alternate between depressed, shocked and pissed off!

        • People who say “deport them” and “build the wall” just want to terrorize a scapegoat. If they really wanted to end illegal immigration, they could easily vote with their dollars. Pay more for goods and services that don’t use illegal labor. A la organically labelled products. It would work and I encourage it as it would lead to true understanding of the value of labor that can’t be outsourced.

          • Frodis73

            Fucking BINGO! You are the winner! Truth revealed.

          • Anony-Lurker

            The truth is they don’t want to stop it…for the reasons we know, but you’re right point blame at scapegoats for all our problems. Makes it easier so those feeble minded people can be angry for their lives.

            Latinos are convenient at the moment, but Jews (myself) run the media and control the money (don’t I wish) and the blacks were always lazy shuffling and raping the white women anyone who is a Muslim is a terrorist looking to kill Americans while they sleep and the gays are turning everybody into pedophiles. Meanwhile Eric Trump looks so much the Nazi that he would easily fit into any Gestapo Uniform.

            opps, went off again, I better walk the dog.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        I think maybe you need to read what I wrote again or you would not be addressing your comments as if you are attacking me. From what you write I am guessing you just want to ignore the issue because you think it currently is set up where workers have no way to work but be illegal. You assume migrant farm workers have no way to work other than be illegal. You are assuming that most of the farm workers from other countries TODAY are illegal immigrants, despite the farm unions. Illegal being the key thing here. I think you are miss informed. You also are reading what I wrote as making suggestions, having answers, holding beliefs, instead of saying as a culture, as a country, we need to have discussions and decide what we want, so all people can live within the law. Respectful discussions. Stress is hard on everyone and living as an undocumented worker and/or an illegal alien, as is stressful, probably unnecessary. Before I get jumped on, yes not eating is also stressful. The issues are complex and many. We have laws and I would like to see the laws fairly and thoughtfully applied. If you would like to ignore the issues, look the other way, I guess that is your input. I really was not looking for input, I was trying to say it is a concern that caused people to vote for Trump. I get it is not a concern for you. No more said.

        • You are ignorant about the realities of life for undocumented workers. Your lack of perspective shows this. Pretend this doesn’t come from a racist place all you want. I know better.

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            Of course I am ignorant about the realities of life for an undocumented worker, in many areas, because I have never been one. Your comments are non-responsive to my original comment. I see now you slip in calling me a racist. cute.

    • There should not be any borders in the first place. Problem solved!

      • Anony-Lurker

        I love how Trump’s people complain about how illegal immigrants come here, collect food stamps and social security etc. Last week, the complaints were that they were being bused to polling places to vote for Clinton.

        Ad Trump reinforces it.

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    Today there’s a certain subject ………. I leave it up to the Stones now:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkzVeXrkXGw

  • flyonthewall

    I wish Marty would write something stupid so we would have something else to talk about

  • Scott H

    re:Last Night

    Was that the worst episode of House of Cards ever?

    …..wait a tic….oh fuck…

    • daisy

      Thank god there is laughter in the bunker.

      • SarahDB

        That made me chuckle

  • itsIBBy

    This is the only semi sane comment section I can find on the internet today so I’m just gonna pull a cushion over and park my ass.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      You can sit right here next to me. I just cracked open a brand new bottle of Crown.

      • SarahDB

        snuggles in for a hug

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          ***big squishy hugs***

          • SarahDB

            Inhales and passes, at least pot got legalized here in Mass!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Thanks. Not legal here but I give zero fucks right now.

            • SarahDB

              Got up in the middle of the night to check results, was so depressed couldn’t get back to sleep for a while…

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              I got woke up with the news around 4. There was no going back to sleep. Felt like someone kicked me in the stomach.

            • Mymy88

              Grrrrr, rub it in why dontcha. I’m in Georgia lol.

            • itsIBBy

              Nevada too! pass it my way!

            • Harpoona Frittata

              Yay, there’s something to celebrate! Legalization for social passed here in California too! I don’t partake of any kind of substance very often anymore, but there’s no shame in checking out for a bit and adjusting your own attitude in times like these!

    • Anony-Lurker

      Ain’t it the truth, I’ve been on and off since last night, if not to post, than just to read. It’s been very comforting at this time of shock.

      • itsIBBy

        my god that is amazing

  • Mockingbird

    I apologize if you already know. People are protesting Trump from New York to Seattle tonight. Thousands of people in multiple cities in California and New York have already started protesting.

    Trump supporters reportedly put Nazi symbols on a place they attacked to celebrate his victory and the seventy fifth anniversary of Kristallnacht.

    • We had a problem in the UK after Brexit. It was an insane decision, but it was a democratic one.
      It’s hard to protest against it without implicitly questioning (and possibly damaging) the legitiamcy of the democratic process.

      Come the next election, you will have an opportunity to sweep those bigots away – and that will be made more difficult by any questioning of the legitimacy of the process by which the opposition may come into power.

      This is not to excuse nasty demagogues like Trump – just to point out that the democratic process needs to kept out of any objections to the results of elections, however understandable.

      Perhaps it would be better if those people kept their powder dry and protested about the actual abuses of the new regime, when they come.

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Yes, we elected him fair and square (but don’t get me started on my “get rid of the electoral college” rant here), so we’re stuck with the BIG orange baboon for the next four year, barring his impeachment and removal, untimely death or mental incapacitation.

        Can someone please cue up “Requiem for Going High,” then get me high…I need to hit the circuit breaker here and check out of this grim moment for a bit!

      • Mockingbird

        They already see Trump supporters harassing people.

    • Anony-Lurker

      I couldn’t bring myself to watch or read any news today. Thanks for the heads up!

      • Mymy88

        Me either and I didn’t and I won’t for a long time.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Uggh…the 75th anniversary of Kristallnacht and tRumpf’s victory coincide? Sweet Xenu preserve us, our long national nightmare has just begun.

  • Mockingbird

    I am probably going to be writing at my blog on the cult of Trump for awhile. It is currently a far bigger threat than Scientology. So I will be changing gears. Everyone is welcome to check it out .

    • Anony-Lurker

      I noticed you hadn’t for a long time, I’m glad you’re back to it, I always loved reading it!

      • Mockingbird

        Thanks. I occasionally add something.

        I will probably tackle Trump, unless I get indefinite detention and torture.

  • Frodis73

    Where do I start? I have been away for two reasons…the first is my mom
    almost died (twice) in the past couple months…one of her own doing
    (by not getting medical treatment) the other of pneumonia. That will
    have to be a different post. The second is even though 5 ft loved me
    enough and was generous enough to send me her wonderful old laptop, the
    hd is doing that thing where it makes all kinds of crazy noises because
    it is dying…so I am right back where I was a few months ago.
    I
    missed you all very much and have lots of catching up to do. I am also
    devastated at the new reality. I am a little drunk (yes, this early, it
    has been a VERY bad day-story below) so I will not dwell too much. It is
    hard to be hopeful. I am totally aware of the checks and balances that
    our system has to keep power in check. However, the majority of the
    Republican party does not give a shit about stuff like laws and rules.
    Just look at the way they have blocked Obama from appointing a
    replacement for Scalia. Before they won it all last night look at how
    McCain, McConnel, etc were saying the would NOT let Hillary make any
    appointments either. I have little to NO faith they will act in the best
    interest of our country. I have ZERO faith that Trump will. This guy
    has been a public person for decades..he has a solid track record (of
    fuck ups). That will not just magically change because he won…I think
    it is naive as fuck to think so. I would love to be wrong…I hope I am
    wrong, but I am not holding my breath or staking my life on it. This is
    bad…and scary as fuck for some of us.

    I ran up to the corner
    store…as I walk in I overhear two workers (who I really, really like!)
    laughing about Hillary sucking his dick. And fuck the jews, she is just
    a jew lover. Nice. I am very aware that not all that voted for the
    Orange Menace are racist, but a lot of them are…and he has given them
    the okay to come out of the closet and rage on the rest of us. I left in
    tears.
    I know there are a lot of people that did this because they
    are mad at the establishment…I get that. That is why I voted for
    Bernie in the primaries. 🙂 Both parties have sold out and sold us down
    the river-that is true. I just do not see how Trump is the answer to
    that. I have read the reasons why and the (weak) justifications, bu they
    do not work. He sucks. He has NO respect for this country, our laws,
    our Constitution…nothing. He only care about himself and his ego.
    My
    country, that I love, just voted a fucking racist, misogynist, sexual
    predator, conman, uneducated, barely literate, anti science, anti
    reality, fucking reality tv host…as our GD President!?!?!? I am
    fucking mad as hell. I am ashamed. There is NOTHING to be proud of here.
    It is sickening to me and the people and ideals I love and hold close.
    I
    am so ashamed…it is the 21st century and we are still fighting over
    BS like this. This just sucks so bad. I am going back to my big ass
    glass of wine. xo to all of you. Fro

    • Jimmy3

      Keep your head up pretty lady

      • Frodis73

        Oh and the damn Tribe. Ugh!!!

        • Jimmy3

          Dammit Frodis. Today I had forgotten about that

          • Frodis73

            Yeah, that was not cool, sorry. I missed what happened here that night though.

            • Jimmy3

              Most people here were happy the Cubs finally won, which is understandable. And I made an ass of myself and cried myself to sleep like a baby.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Isn’t that part of your daily routine?

            • Jimmy3

              We don’t all just naturally have an ass to show, Johnny Assman Tank. Some of us have to make an ass for and of ourselves.

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Hey, I wasn’t born with this ass… Oh, wait – yes I was. Carry on…

            • Frodis73

              Aww, I was pretty bummed too…did not expect that. It was an amazing game tho.

            • thetastic

              That’s right, didn’t they say if the cubs won it was a sign of the end of the world? Huh.

    • <3 <3 <3

    • If the hard drive makes a noise like somebody throwing a teaspoon into an electric fan (seriously) it’s terminal. Wish we were close enough that I could send you a refurbished PC.

      These things too, shall pass. In the meantime, don’t let the bastards drag you down.

      • it’s easy and cheap today to replace with a SSD, but you know that for sure!

        • Frodis73

          Not for me it aint!

      • Frodis73

        Lol, yep, that is the sound! I do windows…I am good with children and animals. You could always adopt me and then I could move to the UK…deal??

        • I don’t have any kids or pets, and the window frames in the kitchen are rotten… but I don’t think we should let that stand in the way 🙂

          • Frodis73

            Lol, Im sure we can work something out. Seriously, I am very willing to marry somebody for their green card here….they can pay me and then I can leave!! How do I get in touch with these people? It is not like I can advertise that kind of thing…

            • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)

              Talk to Jimmy – he knows a guy that knows a guy *wink wink*

            • Frodis73

              Somebody needs to give me the hook up.

    • Anony-Lurker

      Scream it out Frodis73…I’m just as angry and more than half the population is also!

      • Frodis73

        I know anger isn’t always the best, but it is all I have right now, so we can be angry together.

        • Anony-Lurker

          No…anger is good, it’s worse to hold it in. Let it out, I sure am!

        • Ella Raitch

          It’s part of the way through….be kind to yourself and don’t make any irreversible decisions!

      • Harpoona Frittata

        Speaking of which, this is the second time around for dems winning the popular vote, but losing the election in recent history. The last time it happened and Gore lost we launched ourselves into a war of choice that cost several trillion, all borrowed from our children and grandchildren, killed and maimed hundreds of thousands and de-stabilized the Mid-East so badly that we’re still dealing with its serious repercussions. And sad to say, it’s totally possible that this time could be even worse.

        Time to do away with the anachronistic electoral college and let the majority national vote determine the election!

        • Jimmy3

          We can’t know exactly how it would have been different if Gore had won, but if we’re being fair (which we don’t necessarily have to be), you have to consider that the Iraqi invasion had strong support on both sides of the aisle. Everyone fucked up, not just the Republicans.

          • Frodis73

            Yes, so true.

          • salin

            I disagree. I think the response to 911 was the invasion of Afghanistan would have also been Gore’s response. It took a year of trumped up / dubious evidence relating Iraq to the attack – that mixed support happened only after all of that propaganda. Even before the vote – Gore had spoken strongly about the folly and waste of resources (while still in Afghanistan) about Iraq. I seriously believe he would not have taken us to Iraq.

            • DoveAlexa

              Wasn’t the war on Iraq illegal, and then everyone just shrugged and went with it?

            • salin

              It was sketchy – first stating they would only go through UN. Then calling off the weapons inspector (in place to verify whether or not the alleged WMDs were in Iraq), and rushing ahead to an invasion – without going back to the UN (where the US would have lost the vote.) Instead we created this new coalition… “The Coalition of the Willing”.

              It wasn’t til after the discovery of the photographs from Abu Graib where public sentiment shifted, and within a few years it was commonly undestood that we had been decieved into war – but we were there – and the country was engulfed in a civil war – been a dilemma and quagmire ever since.

          • Harpoona Frittata

            From that “alternative futures that never came to pass” perspective, you’re absolutely right; it IS ultimately unknowable.

            And since I’m already muy pissed about this election result, please don’t get me started on re-hashing that last tragedy. However, I will note that of the key inside players who were all gung ho, “let’s get to killin'” in that little debacle (Cheney, Rummie, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rove and other assorted chickenhawks) would NOT have been around to skew evidence, hallucinate WMD, establish their own off-the-books intelligence office and generally have their way with a none too bright or informed Pres. Bush.

            So my 100-to-1 odds bet there is that gGre might very well have gotten us into the Afghanistan War, but he would never have plunged us into the madness of the Iraq War…that was a perfect storm of idiocy and opportunism that only that rogue’s gallery could have cooked up and foisted upon us.

        • Anony-Lurker

          And low and behold, the WMD’s were never found, on the other hand, I know someone’s company that received god knows how much money to attempt to rebuild Iraq’s infrastructure, we so carefully demolished.

          • Harpoona Frittata

            Yes indeed, and if one were conspiracy-minded it would be all too easy to get off to the races there.

        • DoveAlexa

          To be fair, the whole dividing each state into little bits was to make each little area vote on a local representative that they could have more actual interaction with. Unfortunately, the Cult of the Pres is such that any attempt at decentralisation has failed, largely.
          note: I feel well enough to use spellcheck again, yay…

          • Harpoona Frittata

            I think that it was a useful mechanism in a bygone era, but it’s long since lost that utility and it now serves to thwart democracy, just as we’ve just seen in this election and in Gore v. Bush as well.

            • DoveAlexa

              Maybe if we can make it so the borders that get gerrymandered are locked in place for a term and can only be changed if the population of the area changes dramatically, and with complete transparency and agreement on all sides? Resetting them all first too, to an unadulteratd state?

        • Sine qua non

          I am reading an article about the Electoral College as we speak. It’s certainly not my top beef with this country, but it was based on conditions that were more relevant back in the late 1700s than they are today from what I’ve read so far. However: given our individual and institutional propensities to argue endlessly so that nothing ever gets decided, I don’t know if I think whether we should try to get rid of it or not. Not right now, anyway.

    • Mymy88

      I felt that and will keep on feeling it for the rest of the night. You are an awesome writer. Thank you for posting that, even though it was depressing as hell and back, but true.

    • salin

      Frodis,

      (((hugs))) For being there for your Mom. It can be really hard when the roles of parent/child have to shift fluidly (at times I parented Mom, and then she would be back to parenting me and back and forth) . Wishing you both the best – with rest and healing.

      Per the computer issues: I have a first edition IPad (I bought it for my Mom when they were first introduced – and she barely used it.) Do you still have my email address? If so – get in touch with me – so I can figure out how to get it to you.

      The rest… agree, agree, agree. Have barely slept for days – can’t ever recall being so disturbed and racked with concern as I have been through the general campaign. Hilary was right when she said that some of those supporting Trump were deplorables (think alt right) – and it is the empowerment of those folks that disgusts and distresses me.

      Know you are missed. xo

    • Sine qua non

      Hope you’re done with that wine by now, as I’m posting a day late. I agree, the election results such. I kinda wish Bernie had backed off cause I’m a relatively rare person who loves wonky, interminable Hillary, but hey, he had great points, I just felt she had better experience and was more electable. Who knows?

      I plan to speak out loud and proud against every bone headed, hurtful thing he does. If I go hoarse, so be it. I know many feel the same.

      I’m sorry about your mother. Do you have a support system to help your through this difficult time? If not, you might check with your area agency on aging to see what assisting resources are available. I’ve been through the slow decline of a mother, and you must take care of you and get help so you can relax on occasion.

      Hang in there. Breathe. Repeat.

  • Snippy_X

    Think this is right? Pretty sad, if so.
    https://twitter.com/SSS_joshnelson/status/796374940903768064

    • Increeeeeeedible!

    • SarahDB

      stupid electoral college

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      If someone doesn’t vote but constantly bitches about politics and politicians and tells others who they should vote for…..I really just want to punch them.

      • SarahDB

        I agree!

    • itsIBBy

      46.9% didnt vote… holy hell. Thats so disheartening

      • Frodis73

        That is a tragedy…so many people just do not care…

        • DoveAlexa

          Well, the votership dropped from 2012 and 2008 from a graph I saw on someone else’s machine. Dems used to well outdo the reepublicans, but this time round not so much. It does not help that both sides were busy saying the worst, then with no real way out, some people came to believe that it was all pointless. Fear mongering makes apathy as well as zealots.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    To all my friends and family, far and wide,
    I apologise.
    To everyone who is brown skinned, who is black-skinned, who has non-Caucasian features,
    I apologise.
    To my Native friends from northern Saskatchewan, from the Yukon, from British Columbia,
    I apologise.
    To my Inuit friends, I apologise.
    To my Cree friends, I apologise.
    To my MiqMaq friends, my Algonquin friends, my Naskapi friends, my Hopi friends, my Wabanak friends,
    I apologise.
    To all those of all peoples who are now target, Somali, Kenyan, Nicaraguan, Guatemalan,
    Panamanian, Brazilian, Mexican, Costa Rican, I apologise.
    To all immigrants, I apologise.
    To all those who are LGBT, I apologise.
    To all women, I apologise.
    Profusely.
    To my wife, I apologise.

    To all those who hoped and prayed and worked that we might put these old sterile divisions behind us,
    I apologise.

    We have allowed this to happen.
    How?

    That the country I inhabit has chosen a racist groping misogynist as President shames me deeply.
    That millions consider multiple orchestrated bankruptcies and abuse of tax law to facilitate unfettered
    greed a quality pains me deeply.
    We are better than this.
    We must be.
    Otherwise, we deserve all that will befall us.

    This is a day of mourning.
    This is a day of tragedy.

    A noble idea was born in 1775.
    Let us hope it’s obituary is not now being penned.
    Democracy has certainly been.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eca584fb76dd40df441d584acadc30cbd14e7108cf2f0dcde5d8987509af8643.jpg

    • Jimmy3

      I accept your apology. You are forgiven.

      • I thought you were going to ask him to apologize for spelling “apologize” too fancy XD

        • Jimmy3

          No. That’s how we Inuits spell it too.

          • “Inuit” not “Into-it”

            • Jimmy3

              I know. That’s what I said. I know how to pronounce my own people’s name.
              And I don’t know what sorta Trump-baiting you’re trying to pull by saying that to me, but this Inuit is not into it.

            • I . . . can’t . . . with you. Just . . . nvmd.

    • Frodis73

      Oh god, I am crying again.

    • itsIBBy

      beautiful

    • Rasha

      I was told once not to touch a stove, because I might burn myself.
      I was warned that if I drop a knife, resist the impulse to try to catch it.
      I felt the voice that said, don’t make that joke at this inappropriate moment.

      I did them all.

      And I will never do them again. The scars I’ve earned remind me.

      • richelieu jr

        Yes, but that time you dropped the nuclear bomb? I’m sure you feel bd n’ all, but the overwhelming majority of the scars of the Trump presidency will be borne by those who didn’t vote for him.

        He has pretty much sworn that it will be so, and that only counts intentional victims.

    • Snippy_X
    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      For the record Pan, you don’t owe anyone an apology. I think your stance on all these issues has been pretty clear for a long time. 🙂

    • I’ll take it.

  • flyonthewall

    To anyone who thinks one vote doesn’t matter – Fuck you

    • Scott H

      …with bells on.

  • itsIBBy

    I had a conversation with my bff today, and was sad to hear she voted for Trump. I asked her how she could and she had some bullshit excuse about the liberal agenda. What agenda? Equal rights? Womens rights? LGBTQ+ rights? She said she felt like she had equality as a woman, and she was tired of “the gays” getting special treatment. My response to her her was “You know I’m one of “the gays, right?” (I’m bi/queer) “Your vote has made my life a little less safe”. There was silence and then she hung up on me 🙁 So not sure if I no longer have a bff, and if its because of my sexuality, thats even a bigger gut punch. Pass the booze

    • Rasha

      Here. Drink from my glass. Any. Time.

    • Jimmy3

      I sympathize with you, and I’m not trying to insult you, but how was this person your bff? It sounds like they don’t know anything about you.

      • itsIBBy

        I’ve only recently been more open about my sexuality with friends and family. I should have clarified that. I had already come out to her a few months ago, and I think maybe the heat of the election results has fried her brain cells

        ETA: when I came out to her, she seemed supportive

        • Jimmy3

          Well, forget her. I will be your bff.

          • itsIBBy

            yeah! #teamJ3

          • Rasha

            Get in fricken’ line, buddeh…

        • daisy

          I will be your BFF. I am looking for a new one

          • itsIBBy

            All the bff’s for me! I like it!

      • daisy

        I have had a friend since high school . She would have voted for Trump. She wisely knew not to call me . I love her but I sure as hell do not like her. I hope this changes.

    • Mymy88

      Holy shit! I’m sorry that happened to you.

    • Frodis73

      Oh, how awful. I can’t believe she hung up on you. HUGS!!
      Btw, I am so sick of people complaining that others are getting special rights….equal rights are not fucking special rights. It is so clear a 5 yr old can see this!!!

    • Mymy88

      What is this special treatment that gays are getting?

      • itsIBBy

        If anyone know’s, I’d love to get in on it, because so far all I’ve gotten is judgement, and i dont know what shoes to wear with it

        • Rasha

          Sorry, I had to laugh at that. Brilliant! ^_^

        • Frodis73

          Did we not send you the toaster yet?? Oops, I think we forgot to get you in on that one…I will get right on it!

          • daisy

            Send me one too. I know I am not gay, but my mother set fire to the old one.

            • Frodis73

              I missed you a lot Daisy!
              PS, it is in the mail.

      • daisy

        Well you know , all those parades

    • Rasha
    • Observer

      Maybe it’s guilt.

      • itsIBBy

        good point. that never even dawned on me

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Not to be flippant, but with friends like that you really don’t need enemies.

      • TheLurkingHorror

        But it does still hurt, doesn’t it.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Special treatment.

      Yeah.

      Fear of abuse and violence.

      Covert and overt bigotry.

      Lack of marriage equality.

      And if you’re lucky, an occasional pride parade.

      Sounds fucking great.

      Where do I sign up? Is it the same place I pick up my check for being part of the liberal agenda?

    • Ella Raitch

      That’s so hurtful. I hope you can get over that pain and revive your friendship.

      • ExCult.Jan

        Or, better yet, fnd new nonjudgemental, kind, accepting, open, loving friends, like a whole Bunker full!

  • Jon S

    And I thought Brexit was bad. My heartfelt condolences to everyone across the pond. Thinking of you, America. Here’s some non-Scientology reading that suddenly looks interesting. The horror. The horror.

    “It Can’t Happen Here is a semi-satirical 1935 political novel by American author Sinclair Lewis, and a 1936 play adapted from the novel by Lewis and John C. Moffitt. Published during the rise of fascism in Europe, the novel describes the rise of Berzelius “Buzz” Windrip, a populist United States Senator who is elected to the presidency after fomenting fear and promising drastic economic and social reforms while promoting a return to patriotism and “traditional” values. After his election, Windrip takes complete control of the government and imposes a plutocratic/totalitarian rule with the help of a ruthless paramilitary force, in the manner of Adolf Hitler and the SS. The novel’s plot centers on journalist Doremus Jessup’s opposition to the new regime and his subsequent struggle against it as part of a liberal rebellion. Reviewers at the time, and literary critics ever since, have emphasized the connection with Louisiana politician Huey Long, who was preparing to run for president in the 1936 election when he was assassinated in 1935 just prior to the novel’s publication.”
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d2b8976f9ee2e26019c4b3dc11c0f15adec930b5ee085b151dc8041c3d470501.jpg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can%27t_Happen_Here

  • Unex Skcus

    Like many Aussies, I’m stunned at the US’s version of Brexit. I noted though that a few would suggest that the Donald would “shake things up”… perhaps a similar sentiment to many Trump supporters?

    One minor consolation – maybe – is that with a Republican President, Senate and House, Donald Trump will have no excuses if he doesn’t achieve results.

    • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

      Unfortunately, they will simply blame Obama. They’ve been doing that all along – saying he somehow paved the way for ISIS in 2004 (when he was just a junior senator from Illinois). Conveniently forgetting that it was George W. Bush and the Republicans who created the whole shitshow.

      They’re unfamiliar with the concept of personal responsibility.

    • Liberated

      He never achieves results, just blame it on someone else. He has no idea what he’s doing, this is all a big ego trip for him.
      Give the actual work to someone else and when that doesn’t work out he gets to say his favorite 2 words…You’re Fired!
      This is truly the worst thing to ever happen, and we thought George W was a terrible president, he seems great compared to this psycho.
      Trump is not just an ego maniac he is truly dangerous.
      I am worried.

      • Frodis73

        Omg, I would love, love, love to have Shrub back!!

        • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

          Compared to Turnip (autocorrect but it stays), George W. Bush belongs on Mt. Rushmore.

        • salin

          Bet you never thought you would say that… and I agree.

      • Unex Skcus

        Let’s hope that the ‘checks and balances’ work. Trump is threatening years/decades of work on Trade agreements, Defense pacts etc etc. But maybe in 4 years time, Americans will say it back: You’re Fired.

    • Ella Raitch

      Trump puts my animus for John Howard in a completely different context.

    • Sine qua non

      On your last point: absolutely agree it’s all in the Republicans hands now and believe me Democrats and other liberals will be on them like stink on a dog with apologies to all dogs if they don’t produce. This may awake the sleeping giant finally in this country and make the masses realize that they have to vote to get rights!

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Time to try to eat something and curl up with some DVDs. I guess for now we just take it a day at a time. Yes, apparently we’re in recovery. 🙂

    Peace & Love to you all. Thank you for being the incredibly kind people that you are. ✌️❤️

    • SarahDB

      Lovin on you Stephanie ❣️

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Love you Sarah. ❤️❤️❤️❤️

  • Jimmy3

    Is the plural of Cleetus Cleetuses or Cleeti?

    • Rasha

      Cleetiea

  • Techie

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-Y7MAASkg My advice for today. Going home for dinner with my mom, so won’t be around to hear everyone tell me how insensitive I am. Cheers!

    • Jimmy3

      I’m sure your mother is very proud, Trumpie.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Mark my words, Teckie, this is something that we as a nation are not going to be getting over for a very long time. Indeed, our long national nightmare has just begun.

      • pluvo

        Sight. For a moment I was worried that you will say to Techie that he “will rue the day”.

  • Scott H

    It is at times like these – dissention flying about, voices raised and words bandied – that I need to take stock of what went right today:

    I woke up next to the beautiful woman that so unwisely said “I do” 29 years ago.

    Our children and our children’s children flourish and thrive.

    We have our health, our friends and simple pleasures.

    Sometimes Hallmark manages to get it right.

    • Frodis73

      That is beautiful…I am truly happy for you Scott.

    • OOkpik

      <3

    • Jeb Burton

      What a coincidence. I woke up with her at lunch.

      • Ella Raitch

        You’re evil (but I laughed)

      • Scott H

        Order soup else any tasty tidbits on the edge of your plate will mysteriously disappear…

    • thetastic

      I went to bed last night worried I would have to stay home today with two crying children, as they were so emotionally invested in this election. This morning they made me so proud. My son woke me up to tell me the bad news sympathetically. I asked him to tell his sister gently. With an imp of mischief in his eye, he scampered past me with a box of tissues, saying, “she might need these”, making me laugh. Then I listened with baited breath at the foot of the stairs. Instead of hearing tears, I heard angry stomps! I should have trusted my girl, she doesn’t despair, she just gets good and pissed and then DOES something about it! They are such awesome kids. (11 and 9). We had a brief chat about how we safely handle bullies, then they strode off to the bus stop, Jamie proudly wearing his Hillary t-shirt.

  • Jeb Burton

    Maybe the indies can come up with a name that doesn’t include Scientology. How about “First cult of duped individuals who worship LRH, but don’t like what DM is doing, even though its what LRH told people in the cult to do.” Sorry indies, you have no excuse for believing in a film flam man who makes you feel superior to normal people. You are just as bad as the regulars.

    • kemist

      Mmmmm…

      Bit of a mouthful.

  • Observer
    • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

      I think this is a very revealing tweet, and unintentionally so. Powerful, charismatic personalities with enthusiastic followings urge people to vote for someone who lacks those qualities.

      I am a born and raised feminist, but goddamnit, let’s be honest – Hillary was a deeply flawed candidate with very little magnetism. And yes, I’ll say it: she was was foisted on us (“us” being Democrats and liberals). There was no real chance she wouldn’t be the nominee (and no, I’m not doing a tinfoil-hat routine; I think she won the nomination fairly – I just think it’s pretty obvious that the DNC catered itself to her by not offering anyone beyond O’Malley and Sanders, who surprised the hell out of them).

      • daisy

        Politics should not be a popularity contest. The smartest people I know can sometimes be socially awkward. Whether a person has magnetism or not is irrelevant.

        • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

          I completely agree with you.

          Unfortunately, magnetism is often how elections are won; thus Obama’s ability to carry swing states *TWICE*.

          ETA: To make it clear, I’m not talking about *qualifications* to lead the country. I think HRC is eminently qualified, which is why I voted for her. I’m addressing *electability*.

          • daisy

            ppp

            • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

              I voted for Hillary and I wanted her to win. Please don’t mistake me for some Bernie Bro asshole. I care a great deal about the rights I’m about to lose – this day is very painful for me too. But I want to move forward, and get organized.

            • daisy

              I already deleted. I am sorry for my initial remark. Your post and others make me feel like we are already down -stop kickng

            • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

              No worries, I totally understand – it’s been a very intense and heartbreaking 48 hours. I completely empathize.

            • Ella Raitch

              I think some people will need longer than 24/48 hours to get back up again, but I’m sure they will join in strength with those who are able to brush themselves off straight away.

            • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

              I get that, and like I said, I truly empathize. I just don’t want to lose any time. I don’t think HRC would 😉

          • thetastic

            You have saved me so much typing.

        • Observer

          It should be irrelevant, but sadly is not.

        • Liberated

          Yes, why must we expect to be entertained by a candidate? Who cares.
          If ya want a song and dance go to a show, if ya want a sexy stripper go to a nudie club…But this is a presidential election!

          She would have been a great president. She was qualified and had the experience.
          But, with women the standards are different, ridiculously unattainable…”yeah sure little lady we’ll let you have the job as long as you do everything we boys tell ya to do, ok honey bun?”

          What makes me sick are the women who turned against her.
          Thanks for the solidarity sisters!

          • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

            I’m with you on all of this, but I don’t think it accounts for everything.

            It’s disgusting that Turnip got the majority of the white women’s vote (53%) – but I think it’s important to look at WHY that happened, and then make goddamned sure it never does again.

            • Liberated

              Why it happened is the deep hatred of women that will never be fixed, at least not in my life-time.
              I think it is up to the individual, and who has control of that, but the individual?

              I know, Hillary would have won if she were prettier! Said every battered wife, ever.
              It’s ok, honey, there there.

      • Sine qua non

        Well, I agree and disagree. I’m glad you voted for her. My heart goes out to her. I have friends who who are friends/colleagues of hers, I once introduced her at an event,😍 and based on that and other factors have long been super impressed with the woman.

        I truly believe that she cares and believes in using the system to give everyone a fair shake. Perhaps that’s why she had high unfavorables-she makes most of us feel inferior to her. I believe she IS “better”than most of us. That made me want vote for her all the more. However many people threatened by her were probably less likely to vote for her.

        She definitely could have handled the whole email situation better. However to me and judging from reactions much of the world and as of this writing a larger portion of the electorate/popular vote fe’l those issues and others raised paled in comparison to Trump’s many misdeeds and deficiencies.

        Overall I’m devastated. I feel she would have been a great president. As a 50-something w oman, Ifeel I owe her a debt of gratitude along with many others of her generation. Younger women I think I may not know how difficult it once was for women even get a law degree or be elected to Congress. Running for President? .Laughable. Unfortunately they may take those things for granted, but it’s clear today that we still haven’t overcome sexism in this country. That is not the sole reason that she lost I don’t think, but it factored in.

        I just hope that now she takes some time to rest and enjoy life. She has worked non-stop from what I’ve seen for decades and largely been belittled because of it. I suggest she step back for a while. One day, we’ll miss he! 💔

        • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

          As I said, I think she’s eminently qualified to be president – that’s exactly why I voted for her. The past 48 hours have been very painful for me as well. (I also hope she takes a vacation – if there’s ever a person who earned one, it’s HRC!)

          Here’s where my perspective comes from – I was 21 years old in 2004. My brother had just been deployed for his THIRD tour of duty in Iraq – because Stop-Loss was invoked by George W. Bush, for a war neither my brother nor our family supported. We were presented with two options:

          On the Dem. side: John Kerry; intelligent person and decorated veteran

          On the Repub. side: George W. Bush; noted dumb-dumb and draft-dodger.

          I thought it was a no-brainer. I haven’t had any faith in the American electorate since then. Lots of crying and drinking was involved until my brother came home in 2009 – and that only happened because in the intervening years, we got organized.

          I’m empathetic to everything you’ve talked about – but I’m also aware that we *STILL* have a voice, and we have mid-term elections in 2018. I want optimism, and encouragement – this was NOT the last gasp of smart, qualified women!!! LET’S GET ORGANIZED.

    • kemist

      Lmao…

      At least it generates good jokes.

  • Anony-Lurker

    You know who the real winner of the election is??

    Kellyanne Conway, her firm will have lucrative business every election for the rest of her life!

    • Frodis73

      That “lady” sold her soul…or something. Hope she was smart enough to get the money first though.

      • Anony-Lurker

        Nah, for Kellyanne, it was business and only business. She was the most palatable pundit the Trump camp had. They made the smart move. She kept herself very clean. I would guess they vetted her very carefully before she go the job…unlike the other disasters before her.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      Yep, and an even bigger weiner, err, winner there is going to be Steve Bannon of Brietfart fame. He was key in developing the strategy that led to the big win which almost no one outside of the tRumpf campaign strategy group figured out or saw coming. Sheer evil genius at the Karl Rove level, I have to grudgingly admit.

      • Anony-Lurker

        He’s a dangerous man. Didn’t he come on board when Kellyanne did? Or was he behind the scenes for a much longer time?

        • Harpoona Frittata

          I think he was a behind-the-scenes advisor for quite awhile, but only came to the fore after Manafort got the boot.

  • Frodis73

    Oh wait, am I the only one that noticed DT’s youngest son looked like a serial killer in his young years last night?? He looked miserable, uncomfortable…and “off”. I know we should not talk about the under 18 yr old kids, because it is not fair. Everything I have read about that poor kid makes me sad for him though…he appears lonely and detached.

    • pluvo

      He looked tired and overwhelmed but stood his ground bravely in front of so many people and with all the theater around him.

    • Snippy_X

      I thought they all looked terrified. Maybe it’s those tax returns.

      • Frodis73

        Snort. I bet they were as shocked as we were.

      • LongtimeLurker

        They’re freaked out because when they move into the White House they’ll have to start pooping with the bathroom doors closed.

        And stop punching the help for lulz.

    • Chee Chalker

      I think he was way overtired. I’ll bet he was sleeping and they woke him up to go downstairs. I wouldn’t be too happy either.
      Trump’s daughters are beautiful
      His (older) sons….not so much.
      I can’t decide if they look more like him or Ivana.

    • Robert Hanna Moore

      He’s a cute kid.

    • Liberated

      Yeah, he does look sad. He has an entire floor (decorated in gold) in his daddy’s penthouse, just
      what every kid needs and loves.
      Developing all the characteristics of the trump clan.
      I bet he would just love to dress in normal kid clothes and go outside and get dirty and play…..where nobody in knows his name.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      What was the intended symbolic meaning of having young Barron stationed onstage with daddy tRumpf during his victory speech? He didn’t seem all F/N VGIs to me at all. more like bored, tired and irritable.

  • Observer

    Many, many thanks to Paulien Lombard for exposing Clay Bock’s covert Scientology and contributing to his thorough drubbing in the polls last night.

  • Johnny Tank (Forever Autumn)
    • Chee Chalker

      I love Ron Swanson

      • And Nick Offerman A Zen woodworking master.

  • Howdy would probably say – America Is Punk Rock Again. And I say – Welcome to the new adventure.

    • Jimmy3

      I think Howdy would say something about how it doesn’t matter who’s President because we’re all fucked anyway, so why bitch about it?

      And I was going to buy a ouiji board to see if I could summon him on his birthday.

      • thetastic

        That has a ring of familiarity.

    • Nah. He fucking hated dictator types.

      • I am referring to the entire election circus.

  • flyonthewall
    • DoveAlexa

      Tangentially related: can I still listen to Metalica or are they white supremacists? I’ve been vetting my music, cause I can’t be happy and listen to shitters at the same time. Feels like supporting their beliefs. Metal is a minefield…

      • flyonthewall

        first I heard that, I would just rock if I were you

        • DoveAlexa

          Also don’t want to be the last to get the memo that a band is widely reguarded as something only awful people like, and then mention it to someone who doesn’t know I don’t know better.
          Today made me remember the Pantera situation from earlier this year…

          • flyonthewall

            o.O sounds like I have some googling to do

          • flyonthewall

            typically skinheads have their own specific sub-genre of music that is made for that audience. Maybe some nazis like Pantera or Metallica but that doesnt make it nazi music

            • DoveAlexa

              Don’t worry, I’m not writing off a whole genre, just being very careful which bands I support now. Btw, I was checking Metalica but wasn’t saying they were, because they were the only one that I didn’t have info on, or a general assurance that they’d be fine. This is only for the music I regularly listen to or have on hand.

  • What’sup

    Bill be like ” Gimme those pants back Hillary”

  • Rasha

    1196 comments and only 93 hearts? rly?

    • OOkpik

      Poor thing! It needs a touch assist.

  • Jimmy3
  • What’sup

    My local bank branch are having a 2 for the price of one sale on all American currency.

    • chukicita

      what’s it like for an American expat in Oz?

      • What’sup

        Our cultures are more alike than they are different.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Just don’t interact with any of the fauna and about 50% of the flora.

        You’ll be fine

        (I’m not sure about the fora. ps fuck you Marty)

        • chukicita

          That’s pretty much how it is here in Florida, only I would add about 75% of the humans to that.

  • aiight … this is as gracious as i will be on the political matter…

    you have the keys to our castle now. don’t fuck it up. we’re watching you.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/79071d0bc6e26d44c0c8b3a8d4858e4f7d33f164ecafb0061ddb9034457367e0.jpg

    • flyonthewall

      totally unrelated topic. Today I gave my spoiled brat toddler nephew with severe behavior/emotional problems my prized family heirloom expensive shiny thing. Hope he doesn’t fuck it up

  • Hamtaro

    Trying to find a silver lining in last night’s election results: some bitcoins a friend advised me to buy a few years ago when they were $5 are now worth $700 each, mostly due to the global political turmoil of the last 18 months.

    So I’ve got tens of thousands of dollars of bitcoins now. Planning to spend it all on recreational drugs. Lots of pain killers and anti-anxiety medications plus a few pounds of excellent weed for sharing with friends who love weed. Did you know there’s a multi-colored potent weed called “Juicy Fruit”? I didn’t…until today. It scores 100% on the “happy” scale at Leafly. Just looking at the photo got me high. My official President Trump survival plan is to provide free drugs to all my friends for the next 4 years.

    Note to self: find out which neighboring states passed recreational marijuana laws. Move soon.

    #papa’sgotabrandnewbag #notalloldwhitemen #livinglavidaloca

    Legal Disclaimer: this comment is part of a fantasy role playing game, not a statement of fact. I’m not really going to give away illegal drugs to massive numbers of people. If you’d like more information, come to my house. I’ll give you all the “information” you could possibly want. For free. For the next 4 years.

    • Anony-Lurker

      I think a couple of Vicodin’s will do the job.

  • Rasha

    Night, Bunks. Early, yes, but the day’s been long, and there are honey-glazed chestnuts waiting. Also, Rasha needs to watch 5 Centimeters Per Second before bed. ssttrreeeeettcchhhh…. om nom nom….

    see ya on the other side……

    • flyonthewall

      5 cm per sec? Idk what that is. Is it Japanese?

      • Rasha

        Yeh, it’s an anime. One of my favs. ^_^

  • chukicita

    Thank you, Unca Scotty, for making sense of Scientology’s legal interpretive dance for us!

    • Rasha

      Unca Scotty is cool.

  • flyonthewall
  • I think Trump won mainly because of NRA support, even though Hillary is more qualified, but for whatever reason she is against NRA. In the middle of the worst domestic terror attacks. People don’t trust politicians, they trust their guns. So yeah. Basic psychology.

    • Anony-Lurker

      I thought Trump won because he stirred intense anger and for his supporters it’s a hell of a lot easier to blame others and scapegoat others than take responsibility for their own lives. This is a common thing I find, not just in politics but in life. Some kind of emotional malfunction while growing up.

      Children grow up and learn about responsibility, those who don’t go on to support Trump.

      • Guns.

        • Anony-Lurker

          Sadly…yes!
          A manifestation of their anger and hate.

    • Jimmy3

      Trump won because 80% of Americans are stupid.

      • Anony-Lurker

        Or emotionally damaged.

        • Robert Eckert

          Or both

      • kemist

        Actually, 25%.

        He won with the votes of about 25% of eligible voters. Most of them are “Fuck You” votes, à la Cardone.

        Puts things in perspective a bit.

        A lot of people don’t agree with what he said, I’d bet most have not idea what his “plan” (or lack thereof) is.

        You people just need to mobilize. A country cannot be governed in any meaningful way without the consent of the governed.

        • Jimmy3

          I was counting the 47% who didn’t vote, and then threw in some Democrats to be fair.

    • daisy

      I wish it were that simple. At no time did Hilary say she was going to take away guns. She proposed reasonable gun laws .The other shit is Trump propaganda . I know you keep a gun for protection that would not have changed. I am glad for your conscience that you did not vote, Unfortunately your uninformed countrymen did. This is why Trump won ,reactionary voting to an invisible enemy. FUCK the NRA , The next mass shooting is on you ( to be clear the NRA not Dodo )
      Basic psychology of a bully and idiots yeah I guess you are right there.
      edited for loud capitals .my point didnt need shouting

      • ..

      • LongtimeLurker

        Okay, if Daisy and Dodo start fighting, I’m gonna have to step in.

        And no one wants that.

        • daisy

          I adore Dodo. I abhor gun culture.

      • Frodis73

        They said the same thing about Obama coming to take their guns…did NOt happen. The gun nuts are well, nuts.

      • Ben Franklin

        I think a lot of people will be shocked when they finally realize that Trump has no clue how he is going to accomplish all the things he promised, like stopping factories from closing and bringing back jobs to the United States, or even Making Mexico pay for the wall. United states is in for a rough ride as I can see Trump going to war with Iran or some other rogue country like North Korea in the very near future. All Kim Jong-un has to do is just insult Trump’s hair on twitter and nuclear war is on.

        • kemist

          I’d like them to exchange insults on each other’s hair on Twitter.

          Now that’d be entertaining.

          • Frodis73

            Don’t give him any ideas! OMFG my country elected an asshat that freaks out when he is insulted on twitter!! I am seriously in the Twilight Zone.

  • For the record – I am not Trump supporter, I am gun supporter.

    • LongtimeLurker

      I’m anti gun. But I like you.

      I also like movies with guns in them.

      • Movies (and TV) with guns suffer badly from lazy story-telling. Any situation can be resolved by having someone wade it pointing a shooter (or get shot) and often is.

        Since the good guys with guns always win in the end, such fiction typically devolves into ‘might is right’, whether that’s what the writers intended or not.

        When the damn things are ubiquitous, this even seems to corrupt popular fiction.

        • LongtimeLurker

          I agree.

          I meant good stuff like Michael Mann movies.

    • Liberated

      Hillary Clinton did not hate the NRA ,nor a person responsibly owning a gun.

      All the rhetoric was paranoid crap set forth by hate groups.

      • I don’t know the political games. But I trust the cops I know.

        • Liberated

          You mean cops told you she hates the NRA?

        • daisy

          Your police friends would be more safe if only they were the guys with the guns.Cops I know would support reasonable gun control . They think your gun laws are ridiculous. They would also support having guns for protection. The bad guys are the ones with assault weapons, not the police.

          • Frodis73

            There are cops here that think we are ridiculous with our guns too…they seem to be the minority, but they are here.

      • pat k

        Rhetoric put out by both sides…anyone hear Obama? ..when did this site become political? Not liking this.

        • daisy

          Give us a day

    • What’sup

      Really?

    • gtsix

      I am too. Now.

      Liberals, arm up. Buy them all, wear them in public, legally, the repub right has used guns to intimidate you. They have rallied their base to believe a black president can overturn the constitution, and their followers have bought the tale.

      Arm up, it’s time to level the field.

      Their is no Unity unless it is solely on their terms.

      So, be real: what is done to you, do back. This is how the politics is played in 21st century America. No remorse.

      Arm up, intimidation works, use it.

      They have done so far 8 years. Why stop now? To pretend elsewise and to buy into a unity only on republican terms is to forfeit it all. “We” are not better than anyone. This is the USA, fight the battle in front of you, don’t hope for a more honorable opponent. This is the USA. Fight or die.

    • Mymy88

      snicker, hic. I have a feeling I’m going to regret this in the morning lol. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bcefde2d22400bfccb5258437c678c5e24a26a8d6fe15b375f51532286b7d1ae.jpg

  • LongtimeLurker

    Made coffee.

    No milk.

    Used Ben & Jerry’s Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough instead.

    You can’t take my fucking affogato, Trump.

    • Liberated

      Cookie dough, cruise would be so proud.

      • LongtimeLurker

        It was a bit chunky, to tell the truth.

        But it was the only flavor I had.

  • Liberated

    Don’t ever underestimate the ignorance and stupidity of the american people.
    Stupid reactionary morons won..the kind of people that listen to Limbaugh and Alex Jones, that must have a scapegoat to blame all their troubles on.

    They’re so blind, that they can’t see they just voted against themselves.

    Every dictator that has ever been , promises he’s the one , the only one that will cure everyone’s economic woes. Then of course he never does.

    • “I am going to solve America’s problems!” – All candidates say this.
      What they are really saying is “America has a problem and i have the solution — Me!”
      (LRH used this trick all the time)
      I say; What problem? What solution? Who are you?

      • Liberated

        So did Idi Amin.

        • Idi Amin ? lol what did he do?

          • Ben Franklin

            You don’t know about Idi Amin? He is one of the notorious, blood thirsty dictators to ever live on this planet

            • yes i know. just wondering how he fits in, in this!

          • Liberated

            Uganda… it’s ugly man.
            Took place in the 70’s.

          • Liberated

            There’s a movie about him..”The Last King of Scotland”
            Forest Whitiker won the oscar.

      • LongtimeLurker

        “What problem? What solution? Who are you?”

        This is how I interview prospective girlfriends.

        • really? i just use the tone scale until it get’s hysterically funny and then i claim my product! j/k

      • kemist

        Why, the problem I just made up. I’m the only one who can help you with that.

        You’re welcome. That’ll be a digit followed by a bunch of zeros, please.

      • Ben Franklin

        I am willing to bet that Trump may not even finish his 4 year term as the economy is likely to go in the toilet just like Greece. The Reason I say this, is because I think Trump is going to do massive tax cuts that will go to his rich friends, who will in turn take the money and invest in other countries where they get cheap Labor. A lot of companies are multinational and have no loyalty to one country.

        • Liberated

          That sounds about right.

          • Ben Franklin

            It scares me that Trump’s idea of having a strong economy is based on the notion that he is a good deal maker, therefore, if he can make good deals, the economy will be great. A country is not a business, and the economy can not just be reduced to good deals. There are a number of variables that make economy grow. I am not convinced Trump understands how to grow the economy. It is a big difference running a company, and running a country where he has to work with politicians who have been bought by lobbyists

        • yeah! that is on my list too. I just found out that he doesn’t have a plan at all. wtf!
          The tax cut on rich people is only going to fuel the Angry people! And when people raise their voices they will call it Aggression and then we will get more police and people will arm them self. Politics from other countries will eat him alive and he will blame the unproductive people. His voters!

        • daisy

          It just increases fear to speculate on problems not yet developed.

          • Ben Franklin

            Tax cuts is something that he has promised to do, so it is not speculation. Just saying that in my opinion, the idea of growing economy by massive tax cuts does not work anymore. Many of the big companies now operate world wide, and if you give them massive tax cuts in United states, they just take the money and invest elsewhere like china or Mexico where they get cheap labor. Many of the companies don’t employ a lot of people anymore because of advanced technology, therefore, it is unwise to give them tax cuts because they can and are using robots, computers, and machines, to replace human beings.

            Manufacturing companies that Trump talked about in his campaign are not coming back because they don’t need employees, they can use computers, and machines to manufacture products at a lower cost. Manufacturing companies that still employ human beings are investing in countries where they get cheap labor, like China, India, or Mexico

            • daisy

              i guess I mean it causes anxiety to be reminded , and maybe that is only me.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Multiple studies show that for the past several decades the economy has been significantly healthier under Democrat administrations.

          It’s almost a certainty he’ll fuck it somehow.

  • LongtimeLurker

    In more shameful news…Kirstie just will NOT block me.

    Yesterday she was glibly commiserating with several different Twitter followers who complained about being ‘unfriended’ or abused for their political views.

    She was all “that’s terrible” and “differences are what make people wonderful”.

    So I gave her several flavors of “Strange that you’re so silent on Scientology’s Disconnection policy that tears families apart.” and “Unless Scientology Ethics orders you to disconnect from those different, wonderful people, right?”

    And then…nothin’.

    Maybe she secretly likes me?

    • kemist

      Maybe you’re “impingeing” on her.

      Cognitive dissonance must rage badly in her. Political flipflop, lost celebrity and all…

      Doesn’t look like the picture of cult “certainty” to me.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Cog-diss is a hell of a drug.

        But surely you must have heard her career is on the rise again?

        What with her semi-recurring role as Nurse Ingrid Hoffel in the second season of the Fox horror-comedy Scream Queens….

    • Liberated

      You keep trying, man.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Thanks. I will.

    • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

      YouS gotta up yo’ SP game main.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Yeah. Maybe i need more pictures.

        • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

          Or more “entheta”. Gotsta keep that comm line grimey.

    • DoveAlexa

      You’re just too likeable.

      • LongtimeLurker

        I wish that were true. ; )

  • Snippy_X

    Live feed outside Trump Tower.

    “Donald Trump is full of shit.
    He is not my president.”

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/09/anti-trump-protests-erupt-new-york-chicago/93570584/

    Chants:
    Fuck Guiliani.
    You are fired.
    She has the votes.

    Fuck Mike Pence.
    Fuck your wall.
    Boys: Your body, your choice.
    Girls: My body, my choice.

    We reject
    the president elect.

    Recount. Recount.
    Trans lives matter.
    The people united
    will never be defeated.

    Fuck your Tower
    Fuck your wall.

    • Mymy88

      I’m down.

  • Good night.

    • daisy

      Good Night I hope you will still consider me the love of your life and the one who got away. I love you Dodo. I am just sad and mad.

    • LongtimeLurker

      ‘night bro.

      Sorry if my socialist yammering ever offended you. Seriously.

  • Jimmy3

    Goodnight Bunkertown. Tomorrow is a new day.
    http://youtu.be/SHhrZgojY1Q
    I hate new days.

    • daisy

      I hope so . Lets hope Trump does not watch the late night comics

    • Robert Eckert

      Nope. I’m here in what was supposed to be tomorrow and it’s Groundhog Day.

  • Mymy88

    A good friend indeed, wrote this on her blog today. I love the way she expresses herself and I share her sentiment, which is depressing. I wish I didn’t share it, but I do. It’s just very hard to face.

    America Died Last Night

    Early this morning, November 9th, around
    1:30AM, I sat alone outside in the dark cold, smoking, thinking, and fearing. I
    had just witnessed the country that I was born in, was raised in, that I had
    faith in, elect a man who is the antithesis of everything that I was taught
    this country stood for. The “shining city on the hill” was
    figuratively nuked last night. Now, it’s a heap of bigoted, racist, radioactive
    rubble.

    I had watched state after state fall for Donald J. Trump (hereafter known as
    Herr Drumpf, or just Drumpf) for President, and I could not believe what my
    senses were telling me. States that were supposed to be a shoo-in for
    sanity…weren’t. Pennsylvania, Michigan, North Carolina, Florida. Plus most of
    the others save for the usual “blue” states in the northeast and on
    the west coast…went for a Drumpf dictatorship. I was happy that my home
    state, New Jersey, and my adopted home state, Massachusetts, both voted for
    sanity. But that didn’t stop the Drumpf juggernaut, oh no. In voting against
    “elitism”, Drumpf voters chose the elitest of the elite, the
    insiderest of insiders, to be their working-class champion. I had to laugh in
    the midst of my grief, actually. Did they even realize that Drumpf could not
    care ONE IOTA about their working-class problems, that he considered all those
    not of his echelon LOSERS? No, lol, I
    guess not. They were too racially motivated to really care about that, they had
    only paid lip-service to it. Trump cares about one thing and one thing only.
    His own glory. And That. Is. It. And his supporters, whatever else they may
    say, were motivated by one thing and one thing only. To make America Great
    White Again. Yep, they’ll show those blacks and browns and Mooslims who’s boss
    in America, they sure will!

    From the moment Barack Obama won the presidency in 2008, these present Drumpf
    supporters were seething with self-righteous White Rage. How DARE a black man
    sully the White House with his presence? On the very night of his election,
    Repukelican Mitch McConnell opined: “We will work very hard to make sure
    Obama is a one-term president.” No willingness to work together for the
    good of all, none of that bipartisan bullshit, uh uh. Repukelicans, led by
    Horse Face McConnell, would do everything they could to see him fail, beginning
    with standing against him no matter what he proposed. Even if they secretly
    agreed with an Obama proposal, they vowed to stand against it anyway. And they
    vowed to get even.

    Last night, they got even. By putting into office a dangerous madman, a man who
    has the undying and public support of the fucking KU KLUX KLAN, not to mention
    neo-Nazi groups, a man who is a racist, a bigot, a hater and abuser of women, a
    xenophobe, a man who cannot let even ONE mild slight go and instead goes on a
    wild tirade against the Offender, a man who has not paid income tax for at
    least 18 YEARS even though he’s a billionaire, a man who was caught on camera
    talking about how he gets away with sexually assaulting women because he’s a
    “celebrity”, a man who, in one sentence, can and does lie multiple
    times and what’s more he KNOWS he’s lying because it’s already been PROVED that
    he’s lying and he just does it anyway, believing his sycophants won’t question
    him and they don’t, they have ensured this country’s demise.

    Drumpf’s used to not being questioned. He will attempt to run this country like
    his business, barking orders from a throne room and expecting instant
    obeisance. The United States is not supposed to work that way. He is supposed
    to work with Congress and compromise if necessary. Of course, with a red
    Repukelican Congress, they’ll just rubber-stamp whatever the fuck he wants. He
    wants to imprison all media outlets who do not openly worship him, effectively
    shitting on the First Amendment, he’s got it. He wants to put a tariff on
    Chinese imports, he’s got it…which will not only increase the cost of nearly
    everything we buy exponentially, but also could start a war, possibly nuclear,
    with China, because they’re not just going to sit around and say,
    “Whatever you want, Mr. Trump, your wish is our will!” A 45% tariff
    on Chinese imports will effectively turn China from a major economic player
    into an economic wasteland overnight, and I do seriously doubt they will take
    THAT lying down.

    The Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver, otherwise known as House Speaker Paul Ryan, has
    been salivating for years in his zeal to privatize Medicare, turning it into a
    private health insurance voucher system that most seniors will not be able to
    afford, and oh yes, eviscerate Medicaid. Now with Trump, he’s got carte blanche
    to do just that. They will cut Medicaid into block-grants back to the states,
    which means that the states will receive MILLIONS LESS than they had been
    getting for this crucial medical safety net for the poor. The result? The front
    doors of every nursing home in this country will crash open and millions of
    poor, disabled, and dementia-addled victims will be booted out of them to fend
    for themselves. My own 85-year-old mother, a Medicaid recipient in a nursing
    home, will have to return to my house, where I will have to quit my job to care
    for her 24/7. Since one salary…my husband’s…is not enough to sustain our
    mortgage, we will come under foreclosure, lose the house, and all three of us
    can move into my 2003 Saturn Ion. That is, if I don’t just take a swan-dive off
    the nearest bridge. Which is looking more and more palatable by the minute.

    Any woman who voted for Herr Drumpf has a lot of explaining to do for
    themselves and to their daughters and sisters. You voted for a man who has publicly
    bragged about grabbing women by their pussies, bragged about doing whatever he
    felt like doing to them, against their will, indicating that it was ok for men
    to sexually assault women. So ok…now, if you’re walking down the street and
    some guy comes up behind you and sticks his hand in your snatch or on your tits
    for a feel, you can just shut up and eat it. If you’re raped, tough shit. Shut
    up and eat it. Oh, and have your rapist’s baby if he impregnates you, because
    abortion will not only be against the law, but a doctor performing one illicitly,
    and possibly the woman who sought it illicitly, will both be prosecuted. Any
    horrid way a man wants to treat you, you now have to let him. You cannot bitch
    about it. Because you cast your vote for a man who gave all rapists and those
    who would sexually assault women a GREEN LIGHT. Watch me cry for you, Bitches.

    We will have a First Lady who is a foreigner, a scalpel-enhanced Barbie Doll
    who actually admitted on television that her husband is a “little
    boy”, who married Herr Drumpf solely for his moolah, and who posed nude in
    mens’ magazines. Jackie Kennedy, the most elegant and gracious First Lady we
    ever had, is spinning like a top in her grave. Michelle Obama, equally elegant
    and gracious, should perhaps consider installing a stripper pole in the Oval
    Office for when her successor, Miz Melania, gets “the urge”.

    When the Yam won and I saw that all sanity had been tossed out the window, I
    originally said that I hated this country. I don’t. I hate the many fucking
    white racist, bigoted, misogynistic, xenophobic PIGS that live in it, though.
    Those I DO hate, with all of my being. This country, I actually pity it. I pity
    what it will look like after four years under Herr Drumpf. Hey wait, it could
    turn out to be a lot longer than four years. Or even eight years. With a red
    Repukelican Congress backing up his every move, I expect he’ll just crown
    himself Emperor of the United States In Perpetuity. And no matter what
    hideousness he inflicts on this country or on the world, that Repukelican
    Congress would never slap an impeachment charge on him, not ever. And you know,
    even if they did, Herr Drumpf commands the military now. They are sworn to obey
    the President of the United States as Commander-in-Chief. So any murmurings of
    an impeachment will cause Herr Drumpf to surround the White House with American
    troops, tanks, and maybe a warplane or two. He won’t be going ANYwhere unless
    he wants to go.

    Whatever. I see many dark days ahead for this country, and for all those who
    stand against Herr Drumpf and His Sycophants. This early morning, as I finished
    my cigarette, I looked skyward into the dark, dreary night that was threatening
    rain, and contemplated the certainty that I live in a racist land, and that
    it’s been a racist land since the first fucking Pilgrim landed on our shores,
    as they pretended at first to be “friendly” toward Mattapoisett and
    the other Native Americans who approached the newcomers in peace, not expecting
    those newcomers to piously blow their heads off in the name of JESUS after they
    had finished using them. It’s been racist ever since. As Trump’s state by state
    victory mounted, I really hadn’t realized there were that many angry white boys
    and girls populating this country, but…I stand corrected.

    I am ashamed to call myself American. I think for all intents and purposes, I’ll
    just call myself Italian. I took down the American flags that had been flying
    on my property for the last 19 years. I will never fly them again, save for on
    my father’s grave, and that’ll be in HIS honor, not the country’s that screwed
    him royally anyway. I’ll not celebrate the Fourth of July anymore either. That
    may have been the birth of our country, but now, since our country died last
    night, there is no further need to celebrate its birth.

    I listened to Obama talk this afternoon about how he extended an invitation to
    Drumpf to come to the White House for a discussion about transition. After all
    the disgusting things Drumpf and his sycophants have said and done to Obama with
    the fucking Birther shit and all, Obama decides to take the high road with
    Drumpf. LOL, he is an honorable gentleman, Obama is. Had it been ME, lol, I
    would’ve told Drumpf to KISS MY FUCKING TWAT WITH SUGAR ON TOP. Then Obama says
    how we all have to work with the “new President” to “make him a success”. FUCK THAT. The Repukelicans swore from
    Obama’s first day, that they would work to see him FAIL, and now I’m supposed
    to work with Drumpf to “make him a success”????? Yeah, when I become Miss
    Universe, I’ll do that. Instead, from this day forward, I will use this blog to
    document all of Drumpf’s atrocities that he will perpetrate on this country and
    the world. For posterity, after the world explodes, you see. Hopefully, this
    blog will yet remain in cyberspace somewhere.

    Drumpf is presently putting together his “Cabinet”. Which of course consists of
    his most ardent sycophants like Newt “I Balled Around on My Wife Too” Gingrich
    for Secretary of State, Rudy “Yes, I have Alzheimer’s” Giuliani for Attorney General,
    Chris “I Like Cheeseburgers” Christie for maybe Taster-In-Chief, and a host of
    other kooks, white supremacists, far-righties, and frightening liberty-robbers.
    I even hear he has a spot for Sarah Palin in his Cabinet. As Secretary of
    Shooting Wolves from a Fucking Helicopter, I’m guessing. Slovenian Plastic Barbie,
    aka Melania Trump, can trade tips with Caribou Barbie, aka Palin.

    I want it known that I did not “love” Hillary Clinton. I never did. I really
    wanted Joe Biden to run for the Democratic nomination. He begged off, citing
    the death of his son Beau, but I really think he was talked out of it because
    it was considered “Hillary’s turn”. Too bad. Biden would’ve kicked the shit out
    of Trump. Even Bernie Sanders, avowed socialist as he was, I think could’ve beaten
    Trump. He had an ARMY of millions of millennials behind him. When he was beaten
    by Hillary, by fair means or foul, his supporters did not naturally navigate to
    Clinton. They were angry with her, saying that she had stolen Bernie’s chance.
    She may have, according to filched WikiLeaks emails that were later made
    public. So I did not LOVE Clinton. But when the other choice was Drumpf, she
    looked like the fucking Virgin Mary.

    Now it’s all moot. What could’ve been wasn’t, and nothing will bring it back.
    Hillary’s chance is gone forever, and who the hell will come to the Democratic
    forefront in 4 years’ time is a mystery. Biden will be too old then, I fear. Bernie
    absolutely will be too old. And who’s to even say that the United States, and
    indeed the world, will still be here under Herr Drumpf. I fear it will not be.

    Start digging your fallout bunker.

    PS: Russian Dictator Vladimir Putin chimed in this morning to offer his hearty
    congratulations to Herr Drumpf. I guess his dream of a reunited “soviet union” will
    now come to fruition, and Drumpf’s dream of a Moscow footprint for his ugly
    monstrosities will materialize. Happy days indeed.

    • Snippy_X

      yep

    • gtsix

      There is no high road. Only aplogetic centrist democrats think the world is the way they wish it were. When dealing with the current state of America, only a fool thinks compromise is worthy. Republicans do not compromise, Democrats give up and bendover.

      Grab your guns kids, it’s a whole new world.

      • DoveAlexa

        It’s really funny how when Pubs win, they expect them dems to appologise for not being with them, and to start grovling, when they throw massive tantrums and block anything the dems do when they win. “I won so now you have to be nice to me :P:P:P”

    • Missionary Kid

      I just replied to your earlier post and explained my “five minute to an attitude change” strategy.

      • daisy

        please post it again, I could use an altitude change,

        • Missionary Kid

          Your wish is my command.

          There is nothing worse than having one grumpy kid in a car when everyone else is just going along for the ride. I stumbled on this when, as a single parent (we traded kids back and forth) I was driving, trying to get somewhere, and one of the kids was just sour. Bitch, moan, general unpleasantness was his order of the day.

          I happened to have a watch that had one of the first countdown functions, and I said, “You’ve got 5 minutes for an attitude change. I’m setting my watch, and during that time, you can bitch and moan all you want, but when the alarm rings, you’d better change your attitude.”

          Your smart phone probably has a countdown timer on it.

          The rules were, that after the time was up, they didn’t have to be sweetness and light, and I didn’t push it. They had to speak when spoken to. They were to be civil. I didn’t force them to talk, but I let them stew in their own juices. They usually ran out of bitching and moaning before the 5 minutes were up, and by getting stuff off their chest, they lost a lot of their anger.

          If they weren’t civil, I would pull over, stop the car and get in their face. I only had to do that once, IIRC. They knew that the longer they copped an attitude, the longer they would be stuck in the car.

          Kids hate you getting in their grille more than a spanking. I never attacked them
          personally or called them names, but I did call out their actions.

          I didn’t realize until much later that there were two things that they learned out of the experience. 1) That they were entitled to their opinion, and 2) they could control their emotions.

          As a male, I’m not always in touch with my emotions, and it sometimes takes someone else to bring them to the surface.

          Next story.

          My oldest was just about a teenager when he came out of his room one day, and this is in effect what he said, “Grumble, grumble, sour words, bah, humbug.” I made nice, and he went back into his room.

          A few minutes later, he came out again, grumbling, and I made nice again, and he retreated to his room.

          The third time he came out and started the routing, I just looked at him and said, “It’s the divine right of a teenager to be a jerk. Just don’t expect people to like it.”

          He got the point.

          I think I could sell a few T-shirts and bumper stickers with those words on it.

          • Juicer77

            I like your style.

    • Lot’s of good stuff in this post! tnx.

      • Mymy88

        I’ll tell her lol.

    • 9001

      “Who the hell will come to the Democratic forefront in 4 years time” No mystery- it will be Elizabeth Warren.

  • chukicita

    Well, looks like David Jolly isn’t going to be invited to hang at the Fort Harrison anymore.

    And medical marijuana passes in Florida, much to the horror of the Concerned Clams Association.

    • Ohh yeah… how did all the other voting turn out?

  • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

    Today is one of those days I’m grateful for the Disqus (disconnection) blocking function.

    • Mockingbird

      How does it work ?

      • you buy a “White out” and use it on your screen!

        • Juicer77

          Snortle

        • Mockingbird

          Thanks.

      • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

        So, go to posters name then on the very right hand side of screen,click downward arrow (next to collapse button)and two options show – block user or flag. Click on block user.

        • Mockingbird

          Does it mean we won’t see each other’s posts like on Facebook ?

          • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

            You won’t be able to see the other persons post but they will see yours. Its kind of like putting a blindfold on yourself so you can’t see the otherperson . Doesn’t stop them from still engaging in character assassinations

            • Mockingbird

              Great.

            • everchangingmeezer (wogsy)

              And you don’t get notifications If they do respond to you – it depends if you think it’s worth it. I think it is tbh.

      • LongtimeLurker

        And you can always unblock via your Disqus home page.

  • Mockingbird

    I’m good news people are protesting Trump across the country in more than a half dozen cities.

    Tens of millions will have to stand up to him, and be persistent. There is a dim hope.

    • ehh?

    • gtsix

      What hope? He is the President-elect. Nothing can change that.

    • Unless this is going global, like when President Nixon was shitting his pants, this protest is dumb!

      • Mymy88

        God! Debbie Dice Downer! Meh… I’m getting my doggy and going to bed. It’s useless to try to feel any positivity about this day.

        • sorry about that!

          • Mymy88

            It’s okay. I was joking… kinda. Meh, every time I think about that orange yam, yammering on from some podium about how wonderful he is, I literally feel sick.

            Hmm, I wonder how long that’s going to go on? I have a bad feeling it is going to be a long long fucking time. Okay, that’s it. Now I’ve just Debbie downed myself better then you could ever do.

            • Maybe you need to blog. Your good at putting words to thoughts (i read your post downstairs) I could set you up with a page in my BunkerVault blog – in progress.

            • Mymy88

              That was not my post. That was a friend’s blog post. But I’ll tell her what you said and I’m sure she will be flattered lol.

            • ohh he he… need more coffee 🙂

            • Mymy88

              Don’t we all lol.

      • Kay (aka Nasty Lady)

        I think it is a predictable catharsis for a lot of people. So far the protesters haven’t been violent.

      • Mockingbird

        If even two or three percent of people protest historically it is unmanageable for the government. Historian Howard Zinn has written on it.

        If you get to about three percent protesting the government usually caves. That’s the tipping point.

        • aha! when has the government caved on these premises? Nixon was impeached – sorry but USA internals is not my strong side 🙂

          • Mockingbird

            There was a book by someone on the history of protests. It might have been Howard Zinn.

    • Snacktastic (aka Laura Lou)

      Hope of what? Turnip won the electoral college; it’s over. Let’s accept it and figure out how we’ll protect the millions of people who just got severely disenfranchised in the last 48 hours.

      • Mockingbird

        If ten million people are in the streets and refuse to submit to Trump the establishment will have to accept it. If people are protesting every day for weeks and say they won’t accept having their rights taken away then Trump will find very little support from the establishment. But protest must be large and sustained.

        • gtsix

          No, they won’t. Protests make people feel better, they don’t change anything. They go on for a bit, people get their rage out, and then they wither and die. All you have to do to beat a protest is wait them out.

    • Missionary Kid

      Trump is of the generation that believed that the protestors against the Viet Nam war were crazy, when they could be out making money and draft dodging the way he did. There are other ways to hit him. Keep up the drumbeat about the Trump University trial that is upcoming, for instance, and that Russia published a bunch of nude pictures of Ivanka.

      Keep reminding everyone of his business failures. The Toronto Trump Tower is just the latest.

      • Anony-Lurker

        His supporters don’t seem to care. What an ideal spot he’s in, he can do whatever, say whatever, even be indicted and his supporters will back him up, or blame it on Hillary or Obama.

        • Ella Raitch

          His supporters may not, but some of his customers may

          • Anony-Lurker

            My nephew (a really good kid) is finishing up a semester abroad in Sydney. We spoke via Skype about 2 hours ago. His first election and he was really shaken up by what happened.
            It reminded me of how scared I was in HS waiting to turn 18 to see if I’d get drafted and wind up in Vietnam. That fear was very real to me, and his fear is equally real to him. He’ll be 22 in January, he shouldn’t have to experience this yet.

          • Missionary Kid

            His followers may not care, but it’s the people who just went his way for the election because they didn’t like Hillary, not because of any overriding philosophical reason. Those are the people we need to reach.

          • he could leave the white house as ruined man in many ways!

      • JJ

        He was elected, NOT crowned. HE may find he doesn’t really like politics, where diplomacy is involved and you have to ASK for things and negotiate, not just bully, insist and oh, not paying people for their work, that never goes over well either. So is he gonna bring the rust belt jobs back to the U.S.? Maybe start buy making his clothing here and buying his steel from Pennsylvania? not CHYNA?

        • Juicer77

          Great comment.

        • BosonStark

          He says being a businessman, he’s going to double the productivity of the country. “You’re fired!” Yet he’s never held elected office, and as a businessman he was in real estate, and running casinos and hotels. Although that stimulated building and the construction trades, the issues in producing goods are different and running a country is different.

          The gambling industry is part entertainment, part playing on people’s greed. The gambling industry is not a healthy model for economic prosperity for a nation. It has little to do with the advancements in science and technology, the stability of society, or the preservation of the environment.

          Because of computerization, the transformation in industry and the workforce has been dramatic.

          The idea that becoming rich in real estate acquisition is primary to ultimate success is like David Miscavige’s, in running a scam. That may fool Scientologists but running a country is different, and it requires diplomacy, cooperation and experience.

          The same people who wouldn’t want a surgeon to operate on them if they had no actual experience doing surgery, voted for “change” via a man who has never held an elected office. He has never shown how his abilities in business translate to governance. After Trump, they may have to change the rules on qualifications for the office.

      • Mockingbird

        I think we honestly need to unite gay rights groups, black lives matter, Latino groups, Muslims and women and everyone else who cares about human rights and relentlessly protest and persist. If Trump has ten million people in the streets saying if you take away our rights you won’t have a country left that will accept you governing us.

        If the people unite and stand together Trump can’t kill, jail, torture and deport ALL of us SIMULTANEOUSLY.

        If we don’t stand together we will fall apart. Donald Trump has promised to take away the rights of over fifty percent of Americans. If we realize it’s entirely unacceptable then we put action behind our feelings we have a chance. If we sit back and don’t act we are lambs to the slaughter.

        Donald Trump is a wolf in wolf’s clothing and he still got elected. The people that think he will help them but destroy everyone else are almost entirely wrong. The poor and middle class are suckers to exploit to him. And if he’s allowed to do anything he wants then they will eventually be disillusioned.

  • Ella Raitch

    I’ve found some perspective and solace in Nate Silver’s piece today:
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-difference-2-percentage-points-makes/

  • daisy

    I am going to bed now. Last night is the day future time travelers are going to come back and try to prevent. I wish them luck and Godspeed,

    • Missionary Kid

      Sweet dreams.

    • Anony-Lurker

      Tomorrow will be better, the initial shock will be less.

    • Ella Raitch

      Night Daisy – take it from me, it does feel a little better after a night’s sleep, and it will feel a little more better after the second night’s sleep.

  • Andrew Robertson

    Maybe just a coincidence……………………….

    New Zealand immigration site traffic surges after US election

    ‘Immigration New Zealand (INZ) said its website received 56,300 visits in
    a 24 hour period, an increase of almost 2,500%. The site has a daily
    average of 2,300 visits.’

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37932921

    Andrew

    • daisy

      the Canadian site crashed .

      • LongtimeLurker

        You’re still up?

  • Mymy88

    Oh! Hmm. I decided to check the CNN live feed of the protests. Holy crap! It’s getting intense. Go see!

    http://www.cnn.com/specials/live-video-1

    • Ben Franklin

      Imagine when Trump actually start doing the things he has promised to do, the protests are likely to become bigger and bigger. These are protests before Trump has even started pushing through some of his most partisan policies. United States is definitely in for a rough ride with Trump at the helm.

      • LongtimeLurker

        “…Imagine when Trump actually starts doing the things he has promised…”

        We’ll have to imagine it. Because most of them he won’t even try to implement.

        • Ben Franklin

          I see trump doing a lot of wild things especially with the Republican party control of the house, Congress, and the Presidency.

          I also believe that based on the perceived strength of the tea party / the anti-establishment movement within the republican party, Trump is feeling invincible and pretty much will do whatever he wants to do, especially, at the start. Trump said a lot of controversial things during campaign that would destroy many politicians, instead those things he said probably helped him get elected. In Trump I see a man who will step into office thinking that he can do anything policy wise without much consequence.

    • Juicer77

      This is totally normal considering the emotional pitch of this election, and the closeness of the result. In a few days things will settle down again. There will always be Trump protests during his term. That is a good thing. Free speech and other viewpoints worth listening to.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Bummer.

    • Harpoona Frittata

      And when you look at the total number of voters in this election vs. the total number of folks eligible to vote it’s even worse!

    • Newiga

      What was the voting percentage this year?

      • Ella Raitch

        About 50% apparently

        • Newiga

          Wow… Quite low… We usually reach +70%

          • Ella Raitch

            It’s compulsory in Australia

    • DoveAlexa

      It is because of all the fear mongering, though. It can be used strategically to demoralise people, making them apathetic as they feel they’re doomed either way, true or not.

    • After looking into this a little more, i have to point out, that this graph is “zoomed” ie. the left axis is not starting at zero!

  • LongtimeLurker
    • Ella Raitch

      This album = first year of uni

      • LongtimeLurker

        ARE YOU ME?!?!?

        No one knows The The.

        • Ella Raitch

          Infected, baby…..good friend in first uni was into The The and The Housemartins.

          Hmmm – didn’t Infected also have ‘This is the 51st state of the USA’

          Ironic now that US has done a Brexit

          ETA 51st state was not The The

          • LongtimeLurker

            Great album.

            And it totally did have 51st State.

  • Jimmy3
  • Juicer77

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/09/politics/debbie-stabenow-erin-burnett/index.html?iid=ob_lockedrail_bottomlist
    As tough as it is, we all need to work together. That includes compromise from Trump. We shall see…

    • 9001

      Why are people protesting the result? Seems silly to me.

      • Juicer77

        Well, they are letting off steam and simultaneously saying they don’t agree with His Trumpness’ views on things. As well they should. Once tempers cool down a bit, I am hoping for a lot of dialog on issues that matter. Healthcare. Abuse and harassment. Civil and human rights. The election process! I continue to try and be optimistic that us loudmouthed Americans can make changes for the better if we work together.

        • 9001

          It sets a bad precedent imo. If Drumpf had lost and his supporters came out on the streets I’d be against that too. Hope you’re right about a dialog but don’t agree with these protests.

          • Ella Raitch

            From what I’ve read it is a lawful demonstration that they are opposed to the sexism, racism and other ‘isms’ exhibited by Trump during his candidacy

          • Princess Squishy

            and the people that are most angry are really afraid. They think there wellbeing and their civil rights are in danger. And if Trump actually had the power to do the things he promised he would do to get the votes he got, they are right. He promised to overturn the Supreme Court decision making gay marriage legal. He promised to repeal Obamacare. Plus his VP is in support of conversion therapy for gay teens. Trump has shown a lot of closet racists that it’s not as unacceptable to be vocal about your views as we once thought it was, and people are going out, being vocal and defacing buildings with their racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and other -ist and -phobic viewpoints, which puts people in those marginalized/oppressed groups in fear that worse is to come.
            So you have people that are worried that their marriage rights are going to be taken away. Some have already gotten married but if the decision is overturned, will their marriages still be recognized? People who have health insurance only because of Obamacare, as horrible of a set up as that was, but they had it for the first time in years, and they are afraid it’ll be taken away. Women who are worried about their reproductive rights. I don’t like the idea of abortion, but I really don’t support taking away my right to birth control, my right to infertility treatments and advanced reproductive techniques, and making laws about how I have to behave when I have a miscarriage (which are all things that are included in anti-abortion bills/laws and/or things Pence has specifically tried to make laws about).
            So I understand why people are protesting. They are scared for their livelihood, their wellbeing, their civil rights. They have a reason to be scared, because Trump was really confident when he made all those promises. I’m not particularly worried because I don’t think he’ll be able to make a lot of waves. Obamacare won’t be repealed, because it’s not better than the way things were, except that some more people got insurance. But those insurance companies like it this way. They are racking in the bucks. They aren’t letting it go anywhere. I don’t think he has the right to overturn the Supreme Court decision. Sure we have more open racism and sexism and homophobia etc. But I think that will wind down, and I hope that we maintain a state of order where people will be able to stay safe in the face of all that abhorrent talk, and that it stays as just talk. And as for reproductive rights, Roe V Wade will not be overturned, just like Clinton wouldn’t have been able to take our guns, Trump can’t take our reproductive rights.
            But people have a right to be afraid, to be upset, to whatever emotions they are feeling here. I don’t think protesting will help but…

            • 9001

              I agree that Drumpf is a nightmare and that the people are pissed off but tbh this must be for the USA what brexit felt like to me the day after. At first denial, then anger, then blame, and eventually acceptance. It was like last time I lost a close friend! Better to look to the future and put energy into Elizabeth Warren’s bid next time.

        • gtsix

          8 years of Republican obstructionism. 8 years. And now america should “work together”.

          You are a better person than I.

          • Juicer77

            Hopeless optimism, perhaps?

  • Snippy_X

    kinda intense standoff on periscope
    https://www.periscope.tv/w/1gqxvRODQpqxB

    • Hamtaro

      That’s a nice “fuck Donald Trump” sign. I can read it from 2000 miles away.

      • Snippy_X

        Looks like it’s resolving slowly but peacefully. Cops are being very patient.

  • TheMirrorThetan

    One positive thing. I have never blocked, unfriended and deleted so many people as I have today.
    Some arseholes think that the election results are a license to finally show their deepest hidden true misogynistic, racist and homophobic selves to all and sundry.
    Must be nice to be so privileged and selfish that you dont give a fuck about the basic human rights of others.
    Can’t say I’ll miss any of ’em.

    • Susan B.

      Love trumps hate. These are dark times but I have this heightened awareness that friends, family are sooooo important and kindness is needed. One thing NMP (not my president) taught me is how NOT to be in the world and how haters stir up more hate. Love is what matters.

      This post was edited in that I hit post before I finished keying this in.

    • LongtimeLurker

      My favourites are the ones who never (or almost never) comment about politics, but then were suddenly emboldened by recent events.

      

You know who you are.


      
At least Skip and EO (and whoever) were here regularly, taking the heat.

      

The other kind, no matter which side of politics they’re from, simply come across as spineless bullies.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        Oh well. Dicks all show their true colours sooner or later.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Trufax.

    • Juicer77
    • After Brexit, there was a surge in complaints to police about racially-motivated harassment and attacks.

      You are right. In a surprising number of people, that kind of bigotry is just under the surface, waiting for an environment in which they can get away it – which shows them to be not only bigots but also cowards, who can’t express their rotten ideas without the support of a mob.

      The one advantage is that it shows people for what they really are, and you know who to avoid in future.

  • Susan B.

    It’s 12:49 am here in California on 11-10-2016. I’m still in shock. I keep trying to wake up from a nightmare.

  • Scream Nevermore

    Well, have any of you Bunkeroos been out protesting? Some interesting pictures in the press!

  • John Ritson

    The Bayer example of trademark loss is not correct. Trademark status was not lost for Aspirin because it had become generic, but as a result of World War I. Part of the reparations imposed upon Germany by the victorious allies was the loss of trademark status for certain German companies within allied countries. So aspirin became trademark-free in the US, the UK, even Brazil, but not in Germany or Switzerland (or Mexico).

    • uhh? someone is On Topic he he… welcome!

    • Juicer77

      Welcome, John! Great comment,will look further into this.

    • Juicer77

      With either candidate, there was a high probability of someone from either side trying to push an impeachment. Not surprising AT ALL. Waste of time? Yeah. But if it bogs Trump’s agenda down while attempting to cover his @ss, that may not be a bad thing. The same thing would have happened to Clinton had she been elected, with just as much reason in her case. She broke the law. Impeachment talk is no surprise. It’s only sad that instead of making strides to address crucial issues in the US, we’ll spend the next 4 years cat-fighting each other.

      • hmm! THIS IS NOT HELPING!!! he he… So you say this is normal and expected?

        • Juicer77

          Yes. Americans love nothing better than shooting our mouths off. Exhibit A: me. Hee hee

        • Juicer77

          I should clarify – impeachment talk is not “normal” or “expected.” But what about this election has been normal or expected?

          • well… it could blow up and now people are voting with their feets!

          • LongtimeLurker

            Yeah, for this election, crazy immediate talk of impeachment is actually pretty low key.

      • This seems to be part of the problem – a growing unwillingness to accept a political process which has become irrelevant to a large segment of the population and dominated by money.

        Consider, after a father and then his son served terms as president a previous president’s wife stood as a candidate. This seems to indicate that the opportunity to achieve high office has become the property of a very small political class who have lost touch with their electors.

        Trump’s victory seems to have been a reaction against this. The tragedy is that he is such an ignorant demagogue.

        What worries me is not so much the ridiculous man who will be president but the apparent breakdown of the whole US political process. First one side seems willing to take the law into their hands, then the other side reacts. Where will that end?

      • gtsix

        What laws did she break? The emails? The same thing Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell did?

        I fucking hate the double standard in this country. Clinton should have known she could not do what the republicans can.

        • Juicer77

          I keep saying this. Repubs should be held to the same standards. If they broke the law in this way, they should be prosecuted also. REGARDLESS of what was in them, Clinton broke her oath of office and every security clearance she was granted when she took classified emails out of official, approved channels. If you’ve ever had to go through the process of getting clearances, you are carefully instructed what is ok and what is NOT ok. I’ve had to do this myself when I did a short-term job at an official facility, and that was in a very minor capacity. She knew full well what the laws are and did it anyway for her own convenience. It’s not a personal thing against her. Anybody who does it should be prosecuted.

    • Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world […]
      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
      Are full of passionate intensity.

      http://www.potw.org/archive/potw351.html

      • LongtimeLurker

        Jesus.

        …that was uplifting…

        • USA!… USA!… USA! 🙂

          • LongtimeLurker

            lol

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Morning Bunkeroos. Hope everyone got some sleep last night. ❤️

    • Ella Raitch

      Mornin NOLA – you’re sounding chipper. Hope you rested well.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        I’m not going to lie, I mixed some shit. LOL But, I did sleep and I really did need that. Can’t really say I feel “better” today but I do feel better than yesterday so…an overall improvement.

        Yes, this is my attempt to stay positive. Inside I’m still like…WTF??? 😀

        • Ella Raitch

          I felt better after a sleep and I woke up and the world was still here. I don’t have to live in the same country as Trump, but this wave of right wing is a real fear for any liberal democracy

        • Juicer77

          Glad you got some rest. We are all picking ourselves up and dusting off, I think. 🙂

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            I think it’s done me some good to recognize that I’m a bit fragile right now and that I needed to act accordingly. For now, sleep, love, Bunker, no live TV. So far…working. 🙂

            • Juicer77

              Smart woman. Me too.
              Mystery Science Theater in large(r than normal) helpings.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              ; )

            • Betty

              My second favorite web site was hacked. Democratic Underground on Tuesday at 4 pm. Has not been fixed since. Does anyone know how many people followed it? Thanks

            • Juicer77

              I wouldn’t know about that. Maybe do an internet search and see what you can dig up? So frustrating when stuff like that happens. Hackers are jerks.

  • LongtimeLurker
  • Sars Goodwin

    I was just wondering about this before I logged onto the website… How can a religion be an established one and at the same time be a single organization?

    Also, totally beside the point, but I found out I grew up living 2 blocks from Bennetta Slaughter, about which I was just… Shocked. I wish I could share my one story about her, but it’s not really mine to tell, and while that *I* have no qualms about posting about Scientology, I wouldn’t want to recount what someone else has told me. But God, it’s tempting. Let’s leave it at this: Known NUTJOB!!

    • chukicita

      I was shocked, also, one day in 1997 when Bennetta called me at work to chat about Lisa McPherson.

      I was never in the cult, had never met or been introduced to Bennetta. I had been posting for several years on a.r.s. and participated in several protest activities downtown Clearwater.

      But she called me, like she knew me, like we had just had lunch last week or something. And it was painfully obvious that she was a) trying to intimidate me with a “I know who you are and where you work” phone call, and b) trying to wrangle some kind of quote out of me that she could take out of context.

      She said she was Lisa’s “best friend” and how she was horrified at how critics were “using” her tragic death in an effort to tear down her religion. Because when a close friend walks on, and two years later some difficult questions are being asked about the circumstances of her death, that’s the first thing you do – call complete strangers. Not try to learn more about how she died or anything. *eyeroll*

      Bennetta was aghast at Lisa’s being used as a “poster child.” [She used that term so many times I was sure she wanted me to say it, too.]

      I did ask her, when I could get a word in edgewise, if Lisa was on the Introspection Rundown, and Bennetta insisted she was not.

      Then later, she and John “I Smell P*ssy” Carmichael went to the home of another critic. IIRC, they were trying to talk us out of participating in a planned picket downtown CW. He recorded the conversation, and transcribed it here: https://www.shipbrook.net/jeff/CoS/visit.html

      • Sars Goodwin

        Nice read! What I find especially interesting about this is seeing how a Scientologist speaks conversationally, as opposed to rhetoric or scripted smear videos, or some bullshit celebrity interview lame, half-assed, fluff questions. Even though she’s trying to manipulate, and we know she was coached, it humanized her a bit to me.

        • chukicita

          I would bet there was a script of some sort, talking points or whatever, that was drilled before that visit. Carmichael was a heavy hitter brought in from NY C. There are vids of him saying some very unecclisiastical things to critics.

          Believe me, there was very little authentic human in the phone conversation I had with her.

          • Sars Goodwin

            Oh, I was somewhat reluctant to use the word “humanize”… At least without a bunch of qualifiers, like I just can’t remember ever hearing (or reading) a Scientologist speak naturally. Obviously it stands out when she assures you, “I cleared all my words,” but I can’t even think of having heard an ACTUAL conversation. Like, I wouldn’t call any of the celebrity interviews that come to mind as “conversations” per se… They tend to be some very obnoxious combination of glib and vague. A complete waste of time because one can predict every pre-determined answer.

  • DeFactYo

    FICOS. FICK YOU, FICK THEM, AND FICOS TOO! FIC EVERYONE