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A Scientology spy comes forward: Now he’s ready for ‘war’ with David Miscavige

SkipYoung1976

[San Diego Police Lt. Skip Young, left, in 1976.]

 
Skip Young’s involvement in the Church of Scientology’s notorious “Snow White Program” was only a footnote, but it was a memorable one. It was the summer of 1976, and Scientology’s chief Washington DC spy, Michael Meisner, was in hiding after he’d been discovered that June using a fake IRS badge to gain access to a US Attorney’s office while on a mission to pilfer government documents about Scientology and its founder, L. Ron Hubbard.

Hubbard’s wife, Mary Sue, who was actively running the operation, hoped that the FBI wouldn’t discover the connection between Meisner and Scientology while she kept him out of sight in Los Angeles. In the meantime, she wanted to know what charges he might be facing. So she turned to Skip Young.

Young was a Scientologist, but he also happened to be a San Diego police lieutenant who had been covertly running operations for the church in his free time. And he didn’t hesitate to carry out his latest mission: He checked on Meisner’s charges through a request with the National Crime Information Center in Washington. But Young had made a huge mistake. The FBI was actively looking for Meisner, and Young’s request at the NCIC was flagged by the agency. FBI agents showed up the next day, expecting that Young had checked the NCIC database because he actually had Meisner in custody. Young lied, making up a story that the day before he’d stopped Meisner for jaywalking, but then had let him go.

The truth was soon found out, Young admitted to working secretly for Scientology, and he paid for it by losing his job. Meisner, meanwhile, escaped from his Scientology handlers, turned himself over to the FBI, and on July 8, 1977 the FBI raided the Church of Scientology in Washington and Los Angeles. Eventually, 11 top Scientologists, including Mary Sue Hubbard, went to prison for the Snow White Program’s years of infiltration and burglarizing of federal offices.

Young’s involvement in Snow White was soon forgotten, but he went on to continue spying for Scientology for many years. He stalked some familiar names, including Jolly West, Steve Hassan, and Hana and Jerry Whitfield.

But that’s not why he’s decided to come forward and speak publicly for the first time, more than 40 years after he first began his involvement in Scientology. Skip Young has learned that even someone who worked for decades as a Scientology spy could find his family ripped apart by the church’s toxic policy of “disconnection.”

Scientology is actively keeping Young, 69, from his daughters Megan and Alexis, who are 24 and 21, and who both work for Scientology in Florida.

“A state of war exists now between me and the church,” Young says, and he asked us if we know of any good attorneys in Los Angeles who might want to talk to him. We told him we’d ask around.

 

<---------------------------->

 
Skip_Young_SD3

[San Diego’s Mission of Adams Avenue, packed in the 1970s]

 
Warren M. “Skip” Young first ran into Scientology when he was just 16 and dating a girl in high school whose mother loved to talk about L. Ron Hubbard’s book, Dianetics. He later married his girlfriend, in 1968, and by 1973, he’d heard enough about Dianetics that he decided to read it for himself and then began taking courses in Scientology at a local mission.

The Mission of Adams Avenue was thriving, as was Scientology itself. Photos of the time show the mission in San Diego filled with young people on their trip through L. Ron Hubbard’s “technology” of the mind. By then, Young was also well down the road on his other path, as a patrolman for the San Diego Police Department. He had graduated from the police academy in 1968 and had then worked the drunk driver squad, arresting two drunks a night, five nights a week. He then moved into traffic and then patrol divisions before he made sergeant in 1974. Two years later, in 1976, he became the second youngest lieutenant in the police department’s history.

And by then, he was running operations for the Church of Scientology.

“I’d get a call maybe twice a week,” he told us during a series of interviews we conducted with him by telephone. “They’d tell me, ‘Hey, check out this license plate,’ or ‘Check out this name. Go to this address and write down all the license plates that you see there and run them.’ That’s essentially what I was doing for them.”

The purpose, he was told, was to keep “criminals” from getting involved in Scientology. His handlers said that the FBI had a secret plan to send undesirables into Scientology in order to discredit it, and they needed to run police checks on suspicious people who might be hanging around. But he also realized that they were worried about government agents trying to infiltrate the local “org.” This wasn’t an unreasonable fear. Scientology’s Washington DC org was infiltrated by the FDA in 1958 during its yearslong investigation of L. Ron Hubbard’s health claims, eventually resulting in a 1963 raid and an eight-year court fight. Government investigations of Scientology had also taken place in England and in Australia in the late 1960s. Scientology was vulnerable to government action, and Hubbard’s personal paranoia was shot through the organization.

Young was sympathetic to the cause. By 1976, he’d gone “Clear,” a milestone for Scientologists on their way up the “Bridge to Total Freedom.” And after going Clear, Young pushed on to the “OT” levels. And it was around this time, he says, that he was offered an assignment he had to turn down.

“I have a caper I want to talk to you about,” Young says he was told by one of his handlers, a member of Scientology’s notorious spy corps, the Guardian’s Office. “There’s this guy, Ted Patrick, a deprogrammer,” the GO operative said.

Skip knew the name. In 1972, when he was still an undergraduate studying public administration at San Diego State, he’d done a paper on the status of minorities and their earning power. His professor recommended that he interview a local African-American community organizer, Ted Patrick, to bolster the paper. “I interviewed him for a couple of hours,” Young says.

Patrick, the subject of a recent documentary, was a self-taught cult deprogrammer who sometimes handled cases involving Scientologists, but Young wasn’t aware of that. All he knew was that his handler wanted Patrick targeted.

“He asked me, ‘Would it be possible for you to plant some evidence and get him arrested and sent to prison?’ I said, No, fuck you. That’s a felony. It’s way too risky,” he says today.

“But that’s the mindset they had at the time,” he says, describing an era when Scientology felt under attack and was willing to go to extreme measures to fight back. “That’s what we were dealing with. That was the level of rancor they had for some of these other organizations.”

It wasn’t long after that, he says, when he got a call from his handler at the local San Diego org, who asked him about a man named Michael Meisner.

 

<---------------------------->

 
SkipYoungDaughters

[Megan McKinley and Alexis Young]

 
When the three of them got together, Skip knew he’d have to sit in the back seat of his rental car and let his daughters take control. The only time Alexis Young got to drive was when her father came to visit, and she always insisted on doing the driving. So Skip sat in the back and relaxed as his daughters chose which way to go.

Alexis didn’t get to drive otherwise because there was simply no time for it. She’s a Sea Org worker, and has been since she was 16 years old. She works at Scientology’s “spiritual mecca” in Clearwater, Florida known as the Flag Land Base. Her older sister, Megan McKinley, is on staff at Scientology’s Tampa org and is not a Sea Org worker. Both of them, however, are deeply devoted to Scientology, which they grew up in.

In other ways, they’re complete opposites, Skip says. Megan is the buttoned-down one, ordered and neat. Alexis, the younger one, was a disorganized flower child. They went to Scientology schools, but Skip says he didn’t expect to see his daughters leaving home so young or working for the church.

He thinks that happened as a result of the divorce that split up his relationship with the girls’ mother.

“We were losing our house and we had to move out. There was a real feeling of loss and failure,” he says. In October 2007, Skip and his wife moved into separate condos but in the same complex. They celebrated holidays together, but any chance of reconciling evaporated. They were divorced in 2008. Alexis later signed the Sea Org’s billion-year contract and began its grueling schedule of work at pennies an hour. She was 16.

“My feeling at the time was that the Sea Org saw that my family was disintegrating, so they moved in and snatched Alexis away,” Skip says. “I was feeling very bad about the whole thing.”

He moved back to San Diego in March 2009. Then, after stretches in Glendale and San Bernardino, he moved back to San Diego again in 2013. During those four years, he says, he continued to see Megan and Alexis twice a year in Florida.

“It was a wonderful, silly relationship between the three of us,” he says.

His ex-wife, meanwhile, got remarried to a man who was an OT 8, the highest level a Scientologist can currently achieve. (Skip had stalled in his Scientology courses in 2006 or 2007, only reaching as high as OT 5.)

“She left me for a guy with a bigger certificate,” he says with a laugh. (We left voice mail messages with Young’s ex-wife, Teresa, as well as one with his daughter Megan. Alexis, as a Sea Org worker, has no personal phone. We also sent a detailed email to Scientology spokeswoman Karin Pouw with a request for comment. We’ve received no replies.)

About a week before Skip made his October 2013 trip to Florida to see his daughters, he received a call from Alexis, who asked him, while he was there, to “route in.” She wanted him to talk to a Scientology official about where he was on the Bridge, and to get an estimate on how much it would cost to get to the next level.

“I took it as a push they were on to get more people in. I figured she was given a target to hit. I didn’t think it was unusual,” Skip says, and he agreed to meet with a counselor during his visit.

After a day letting his daughters drive him around town in his rental car, he sat down with the Director of Processing at Flag, who began questioning him while he was holding the sensors to an E-meter.

“She asked me how were things. And she asked, ‘Is there anything we should know?'” Scientologists are trained to believe that the E-meter can read minds, and that it’s useless to try to hold back secrets while you’re being questioned with the use of one. So Skip owned up.

“I just want you to know that I got this email from Debbie Cook,” he told her.

The previous year, on January 1, 2012, Debbie Cook, who had run the Flag Land Base as its captain for 17 years, sent out a message that quickly became notorious. In it, she listed what she believed were deficiencies in the leadership of David Miscavige, who ran Scientology. And she cited original quotations from L. Ron Hubbard to make her point. It was a devastating takedown of Miscavige (to Scientologists, at least; to outsiders it can seem incomprehensible). Skip admitted that he’d not only read Debbie’s email, but it had led him to look at websites which contained negative information about Scientology. He had also read books by several recent defectors from the organization, including Marty Rathbun, Jefferson Hawkins, and Amy Scobee.

“She got this really sick look on her face and wrote everything up. The next thing I know I was routed to Ethics,” he says, referring to Scientology’s enforcement corps. “The next day, I was threatened with a comm ev.”

A “committee of evidence” or “comm ev” is something like a court martial in the naval-obsessed world of Scientology. Skip was shocked, and he protested. A comm ev wasn’t called for in his case, he argued. The ethics officer he had been referred to, Master at Arms Slavka Bottomley, worked out a program for him to avoid a comm ev, which involved Skip spending time reading through a list of Hubbard policies as a sort of amends project for daring to look at negative info about Scientology, which is known as “entheta.”

“I got a little way through it, but then I had to fly home. I worked it out with Slavka: I would agree to finish the program at AOLA [the Advanced Org Los Angeles], and I would clear off my computer, and finish the program. And they wouldn’t comm ev me,” he says.

About two weeks after he arrived in San Diego, he went to AOLA. “It took five weeks to study the policies and complete the program. The policies were all written up in the 1960s and of course said nothing about the Internet. None of them prohibited reading information online,” he says.

Skip had done what he’d been asked to do, and he figured it had blown over. But then, on Friday, December 13, he got a call from AOLA’s Master at Arms, a woman named Theresa.

“She said, ‘We decided to call a comm ev on you.'”

 

<---------------------------->

 
Skip_Young_SD2

 
“I have a name for you to check out. Can you check the NCIC?”

“Yes, I can.”

“Is it risky?”

“Depends. What have you got?”

That’s how Skip Young remembers the conversation in the summer of 1976 when he heard the name Michael Meisner for the first time. He wasn’t told that Meisner was at the center of a yearslong operation in Washington that had Scientology operatives infiltrating and burglarizing federal offices of the IRS and Justice Department and many others, taking out stolen documents by the yard. L. Ron Hubbard had designed the operation in a 1973 document and named it the Snow White Program. It had agents looking for documents in government offices around the world, but it was in Washington where the most intense activity was going on.

One day in June 1976, Meisner and another Scientology spy who had gotten a job at the IRS, Gerald Wolfe, were stopped as they attempted to get into a set of US Attorney’s offices through the library of the DC Bar, which was housed in a courthouse. Two FBI agents were called, who asked for their IDs, which turned out to be fakes. Later, one of the FBI agents ran into Wolfe at the IRS building and arrested him. But by then, Meisner had been whisked to Los Angeles and was in hiding. Now, several weeks later, Mary Sue Hubbard wanted to know what kind of charges Meisner might be facing and how much prison time he might get. That information would be in the NCIC database.

“I worked nights, and I was out in my patrol car. I radioed in to the dispatch area that I wanted an NCIC check. ‘Meisner, Michael’ I said, and I gave a date of birth,” Young says. “They typed the information into their computer system, which was linked to Washington. And then we waited. It took over 20 minutes to get the information back. In those days, everything was on paper, so even though you reached them by computer, on the other end they had to go pull the paper copies of the case record.”

Young was told that Meisner faced a charge of forgery of a government ID, which carried a five-year potential prison sentence. He relayed that information to his Scientology handler.

Meanwhile, on the other end, when the FBI realized that someone had made an NCIC check on Meisner, alarms went off. Young explains that an NCIC check implied that a fugitive had been caught by some local police agency, and they had checked on his name to see if he was wanted elsewhere.

The next day, the San Diego FBI field office sent two agents to meet with Young at about 10 in the morning. “Your person is wanted in DC. Do you still have him?” they asked.

“No, I let him go,” Young lied. They asked him for details about the arrest.

“I said I stopped this guy for jaywalking and he had no ID, so I got a weird feeling and ran his name on the NCIC. They showed me a picture of him. ‘Is this the guy?’ Like an idiot, I said yes. Looking back, I should have said he looked a little different. They then left, and I didn’t hear anything from them for many months.”

While Gerald Wolfe faced prosecution in DC, Meisner remained in hiding in Los Angeles and was getting increasingly impatient. Mary Sue Hubbard and her Guardian’s Office were taking a long time to work out a cover story for Meisner to use when the time came for him to turn himself in. But Meisner didn’t like that plan, and eventually, in June 1977, a year after he’d first been stopped and questioned, Meisner escaped from his Scientology handlers and turned witness for the FBI. One of the things he was asked about was being detained for jaywalking in San Diego, which, Meisner assured them, never happened.

“In June 1977, the FBI came back to me. ‘We want to show you the picture again. Is this the guy? He claims he’s never been in San Diego,’ they said. So I tried to cover myself. I said it kind of looks like the guy, and that I was only going by memory. That’s when they started investigating me big time,” Young says.

Young was summoned to Fifield Manor, where top Guardian’s Office executives worked — a building that was later turned into what is now the Hollywood Celebrity Centre.

“I met someone there whose name I think I knew at the time. She had bug eyes, and never blinked. All she was interested in was getting me to sign an affidavit saying that L. Ron Hubbard had never asked me to do anything,” he says. “Then they briefed me on who Michael Meisner actually was. That he was with the Guardian’s Office working in DC. And they said he had gone rogue.”

Young was beginning to realize how bad his situation was.

“Thanks, guys,” he told them. “I’m fucked here.”

He was assured that if anything happened as a result of the NCIC check, Scientology would hire him an attorney and defend him.

Then, just a few days later, on July 8 the FBI launched what was the biggest raid in its history to that time, simultaneously showing up at the Washington DC org, as well as the Los Angeles headquarters — “Big Blue,” the former Cedars of Lebanon hospital which had just recently been purchased by the church — and Fifield Manor itself. Here’s what we said about it in our book The Unbreakable Miss Lovely

By 10 in the morning, the agents were finding so much evidence of the Snow White Program and the infiltration of government offices, a call went out for reinforcements. Eventually, 156
agents were poring over records in Scientology’s headquarters in three locations and 30 separate rooms, and 48,149 files with 100,124 pages of documents were seized in total. A large truck was needed to carry it all away. The raid lasted 21 hours, and the last of the agents didn’t leave the premises until after 3 in the morning.

After the raid, Young was subpoenaed to report to a grand jury in Washington. At that point, he had to notify the chief of the San Diego police.

“I told him the whole story, about what I was doing helping the Guardian’s Office and the Church of Scientology, that I thought I was helping them keep criminals out of the church. At the time, they were very nice to me. The city of San Diego flew me to DC and put me up in a hotel.”

He was summoned to the office of Assistant US Attorney Ray Banoun, who would be prosecuting Mary Sue Hubbard and the other top church executives. “Kendrick Moxon was there,” Young says, referring to a young Scientology executive (and later an in-house lawyer for the church) who had with him an attorney hired by Scientology.

“You know, we thought you were just a cop who got caught up in this, but you come in with a church attorney, we’re realizing you’re part of the whole thing,” Banoun told Young. Skip knew he was in a tough spot.

“I told Banoun the whole story. What I was doing for the GO. That I thought I was helping keeping criminals out of the org. When they had me run this NCIC thing I did it thinking nothing would come of it. ‘Tell that to the grand jury,’ Banoun said. I was in there testifying for almost an hour.” Ultimately, though, Young wasn’t charged, and he also wasn’t named an unindicted co-conspirator, as L. Ron Hubbard himself was, and Kendrick Moxon.

But Young still faced trouble back home, where the police department was still deciding how to punish him. As Christmas neared, he asked an assistant chief what was likely to happen, and was told he’d probably get a two-week suspension. So he relaxed during the holiday and spent a lot of money.

Then, in the second week of January 1978, he was called in by his captain and another assistant chief. They let him know he was being terminated.

“I was surprised, but they said the FBI was telling them if they didn’t fire me, they’d cut the department’s access to the NCIC. ‘It’s either you or us,’ they said.” After meeting with the chief two days later, who didn’t relent, Young walked out of the building without even clearing out his locker.

He was soon contacted by the Guardian’s Office, which offered to hire him an attorney and take the police department to court. “I said I was going through a civil service appeal process with the union’s attorney. But after two months, the termination was upheld. By that point I’d made some contacts in the real estate business. I got a real estate license and an insurance license in a company making a lot of money. Maybe this was fortuitous, I thought. Maybe this was life telling me it was time for a change, so I accepted it,” he says.

“Looking back, I probably should have taken the GO’s offer of an attorney and fought it. I probably would have won.”

Before long, he was back doing investigations for Scientology anyway, and had found a place for himself in a business that became well known as a home for Snow White’s former spies.

 

<---------------------------->

 
SkipYoungDaughter

[Alexis Young]

 
Skip Young’s comm ev happened in Los Angeles on January 4, 2014. He was taken to a small room where he faced the committee, made up of a chairman and three others. They handed him a document known as a “bill of particulars.” It was the list of allegations against him.

When Young asked if he could keep a copy of it, he was told he couldn’t. So he took out a piece of paper and copied down what was on the document, making the committee wait for about fifteen minutes for him to complete it. When he was done, they asked him how he planned to plead.

Not guilty, he told them.

“They accused me of receiving an email from a suppressive person, Debbie Cook. But I pointed out that when Debbie sent out her email, she was in good standing with the church, not an SP. They accused me of going public with my complaints about the church. I denied that. I had talked to a couple of friends about Debbie’s concerns and what should be done about them. I never had any intention to harm the church,” he says he explained to the committee.

“They asked me how long I had gone on the Internet. For a year or two, I told them. ‘Why did you do this?’ the youngest woman asked me. I said because I was curious. I had received this email from Debbie Cook, who I knew to be a longtime Sea Org veteran. I didn’t even know she was out of the Sea Org at that point. I just wanted to find out if what she was saying was true or not.”

After about an hour, he was told he could leave and the results of his comm ev would be sent to him.

While he waited to hear the comm ev’s findings, he heard from Alexis in February. He had told his daughters that he planned to visit them later that month, but Alexis was angry.

“Dad, how dare you come to see me. We know what you did,” she said, Skip remembers.

“No, you don’t know,” he replied. And then she hit him with a barrage.

“I am a hard working Sea Org member. We’re working to clear the planet, and you’re hooking up with suppressive people,” she told him.

“It was all information that was coming from church sources,” he says, and he couldn’t convince her that he had his own version of events.

“That was the last time she spoke to me.”

Young had to wait eight months after his hearing before finally getting word of the comm ev’s findings and recommendations.

“They found me guilty of three crimes and three or four high crimes,” he says.

In order to get back in the good graces of the church, Young would have to submit to multiple interrogations (known as “sec checks”), and do a lengthy amends program. It would total about $14,000.

“If I did it, there would still be nothing to guarantee that they still wouldn’t declare me suppressive,” he says, which is Scientology’s version of excommunication.

After the findings came out in August 2014, Megan, his other daughter, also cut off all contact with him, notifying him in an email that she wanted nothing more to do with him.

Six months ago, in October, Young notified the Master at Arms at AOLA that he refused to come up with $14,000 to clear his name.

He also, that month, made a surprise visit to Florida to see Megan.

“I tried to make my case, explaining how wrong this was. How the evidence in the comm ev was improper and the conclusions were based on false assumptions.” But she refused to talk with him.

“If you come to my door again, I’ll call the police,” she told him.

 

<---------------------------->

 
Skip_Young

 
After losing his job in 1978, Young focused on making money. With real estate and insurance licenses, he quickly began making far more than his friends still back at the police force.

Within four years of losing his position, he owned two homes, had married wife number three, and they owned a Mercedes, a BMW, and a third car, a Porsche, for driving on the weekends.

But 1987’s market downturn wiped him out. So he turned again to Scientology, joining the Sea Org that year. He didn’t stay in for very long — less than three years — but during that time he got married to another Sea Org employee, and they had two daughters, Megan and Alexis.

Meanwhile, Young missed the life of investigations. So, in 1991, after getting out of the Sea Org, he made another big change. He went to work for David Morse & Associates and also began doing volunteer work for Scientology again.

DMA had been founded in Los Angeles by its namesake in 1979, and by 1991 it had branched out to other states, providing investigations for insurance firms. But it’s known in Scientology circles for another reason, that so many of the former Guardian’s Office top operatives went to work there after the Snow White Program prosecutions. It has been known ever since as a sort of employment agency for former Scientology spies.

Young acknowledges that his affiliation with Scientology helped him get a job there. “It helped that I was an ex-cop and on the Bridge, and OT,” he says. But if his past as a GO volunteer helped get him a job at David Morse, he says he didn’t interact much with the former GO execs at the firm, people such as Duke Snider and Joe Lisa and Henning Heldt.

“I was never on their level or privy to their conversations. And the guys I did know, we’ve never mentioned anything to each other about those days. I think it was an unspoken rule, that you don’t bring up that history,” he says. “But they all seemed to be in very good status with the church.”

And while Skip Young went to work at DMA to help with insurance investigations, in his spare time he worked for Scientology, which had caught itself up in another big cause — fighting the IRS.

At the time, he enjoyed the cat-and-mouse aspect of tailing Scientology’s targets and serving them with court summonses. One IRS agent, for example, was a 20-year law enforcement agent who Young says was very “slippery” — and armed. He was aware that he was being followed, and that made the job even tougher. He rarely went home, for example, which would have made things easier. Another IRS agent was served when Young pretended to be an Allstate claims adjuster investigating a car accident down the block. “You should have seen the look on his face when he realized I’d deceived him to get him to lower his defenses,” Young says.

But that guy had made things easy. This more slippery customer was tougher. Until, that is, Young got a tip where the agent would be dining. He found where the guy had parked his Mercedes automobile, and then hid between some bushes nearby, waiting for a couple of hours on a cold night for the guy to return to his car. When he did, Young leaped out and handed him an envelope with a summons.

“What? Is this that Scientology shit?” the IRS agent asked.

“Another satisfied customer,” Young says.

He used similar tactics on many other Scientology targets, some of them well known.

He served papers on Dr. Louis Jolyon “Jolly” West (1924-1999), a UCLA professor of psychiatry who had called Scientology a cult in a 1980 textbook and had been harassed by the church ever since.

Young says he contributed to Scientology’s targeting and eventual destruction of the Cult Awareness Network by stalking and serving papers on Cynthia Kisser, CAN’s executive director, and others.

Another deprogrammer he spied on was Steve Hassan. “He lived in a condo or apartment in Glendale, and he stayed in most of the time. So I had to watch him for three or four days, and for three or four hours at a time. Finally I saw him letting his dog out so it could pee, and I made my move,” Young says. “I tried to hand him a summons and he wouldn’t take it from me, putting his arms down at his sides. So I threw it at his feet. It was a subpoena for a deposition in a civil matter.”

Young also remembers following Hana and Jerry Whitfield — Hana once captained L. Ron Hubbard’s flagship, the Apollo, and she was featured last year in Alex Gibney’s documentary Going Clear. We asked Hana and Jerry if they remembered being followed and served papers by a Scientology operative.

“Which time?” Hana answered. Young’s activity didn’t stand out in their minds — they were followed too many times.

 

<---------------------------->

 
Skip_Young_SD

[Mugging at the mission, circa 1974.]

 
In 2011, after his divorce but before he received Debbie Cook’s email and ran into trouble with his daughters, Skip Young surprised his coworkers at David Morse & Associates when he decided to join the Sea Organization, more than twenty years after his first stint in Scientology’s ersatz navy.

“The Sea Org recruiters showed up at David Morse to tell them about my decision. That’s fine with us, they said. Look, if it doesn’t work out, you can always come back, they told me. And sure enough, three months later I came back,” he says.

It was another failed experiment. But during his short time in the Sea Org in 2011, Young got a remarkable glimpse for how the fortunes of Scientology appeared to be declining.

One of the things he was expected to do was to man phones at a call center, attempting to reach people who were in Scientology’s database but who hadn’t been involved with the church for years.

“We were never told why so many people were disaffected,” Young says. “I spoke with many, many people who said they were upset with some aspect of Scientology.” Many of them, he says, complained about “over-regging.” A “reg” is a registrar, Scientology’s name for the person who takes money for services. Scientologists are constantly under intense pressure to donate money not only for their own courses, but also for endless fundraising campaigns. Regges are known for being particularly aggressive, knocking on doors in the middle of the night to put the hard sell on a member to fork over thousands of dollars at a time.

Young also had to knock on doors and try to talk former members into becoming active again. When he took their complaints back to the base in Los Angeles, he was always told that the person complaining was really covering up his or her own “overts” — bad acts. The problem was never with Scientology itself.

After that glimpse of how much Scientology was struggling, Young realized his mistake and went back to DMA. Just a few months later, however, he was sent a copy of Debbie Cook’s email, and his recent experience helped convince him that she was telling the truth.

After his comm ev, and after his daughters disconnected from him in 2014, Young once again turned to his colleagues at DMA for help.

“DMA has always been good to me for 25 years,” he told us, and asked that we not paint the firm in a harsh light, despite its employment of former Guardian’s Office figures. He was especially glad for their connection to Scientology now, when he wanted to get a strong message to the church.

“I’m writing up a petition, asking to overturn the comm ev findings and just return me back to status quo. My game plan is to give them a chance to right the wrong, and if they do it, I’ll be fine and probably never tell my story,” he said to us a few weeks ago. He planned to use his friends at DMA to deliver his petition. “But I’m not holding my breath. They’re in a bunker mentality right now. Unless there’s been a change in the mind of the guy at the top, I don’t see a change coming.”

He gave the petition to a friend at work, and then he (and we) waited.

Then, a few days ago, Young contacted us again with an email.

I have just learned from a close friend that the church has sent people around to speak to as many of my friends as they can reach, telling them to disconnect from me, as I have been Declared. Of course, I have not received any such notice from the church. At this point I consider a state of war exists between me and the church. I want to move forward with the legal matter and I’m hoping I can get someone to take my case. Anything you can do to assist on that would be helpful. I just want an introduction to a willing listener who will hear my tale and evaluate the merits of the case.

When a Scientologist is “declared” a “suppressive person,” all other church members must cut off all contact with him or risk being declared themselves. Young’s daughters had already cut themselves off from him after his comm ev. Now, his situation was even more settled: He’s been cast out. But he plans to fight back.

We told Young, however, that some of our readers would look at his situation and wonder if he isn’t reaping what he sowed after spending so many years helping Scientology target its enemies.

“My response would be that human beings are capable of having a change of heart,” he told us. “I helped Scientology win tax exempt status by serving summonses on IRS agents. I regret that now. They never should have got their tax exempt status. I had been given cover stories and was operating off of that bad information…I bought into the enthusiasm and promise of ‘we can change the world.’ And Scientologists are not the only ones to buy into that.”

He is frustrated that he can’t convince his two girls to see how he’s been mistreated by the organization. But he’s sure that they are too afraid to go against the orders they’ve been given.

“They’re only doing this from fear,” he insists. “Their hearts are not in this disconnecting from me.”

And after 40 years with Scientology, he’s come to a remarkable conclusion.

“They’ve brainwashed my daughters.”

 
SkipYoungDaughters2

 
——————–

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——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on March 19, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    “DMA has always been good to me for 25 years,” he told us, and asked that we not paint the firm in a harsh light, despite its employment of former Guardian’s Office figures. He was especially glad for their connection to Scientology now, when he wanted to get a strong message to the church.

    ” I’m writing up a petition, asking to overturn the comm ev findings and just return me back to status quo. My game plan is to give them a chance to right the wrong, and if they do it, I’ll be fine and probably never tell my story,” he said to us a few weeks ago. He planned to use his friends at DMA to deliver his petition. “But I’m not holding my breath. They’re in a bunker mentality right now. Unless there’s been a change in the mind of the guy at the top, I don’t see a change coming.” ”

    wow, to me this means there might be other respectfully “disaffected” members of DMA as we speak.

    To me that means there are potentially more people at DMA who might someday tell their stories.

    This is a spectacular story, and loosening of people’s stories being told in these recent years.

    Thankyou Tony, for being on the job to do these stories, your reporting on Scientology makes for a valid news outlet to cover these intricate details of the predicaments Scientologists are living through.

    I so hope more DMA ex GO people can write someday of their lives like Skip has allowed you to cover his story above.

    Tom Reitze and Nancy, and Chuck Ohl.

    I for a very tiny few days was their course supervisor in one of those periods when the staff course room training was in the Clearwater Building, and Chuck Ohl was on the newly revised Evaluator’s Course.

    The Eval Course students had to turn in an eval, and at that tiny window of time, LRH was the one handling all evaluation approvals, and LRH approved Chuck’s student Eval Course eval! No one ever in the history of the Eval Course got an LRH approved student eval approved. Chuck did some things he had to also disappear for, and Chuck never got caught that I know. But he was incredibly bright.

    I hope Chuck Ohl and the Reitzes come out supportive of Skip and that others in DMA somehow don’t become a “declared” Scientology business.

    But if DMA now has some fault lines that divide up the ex GOers in it, then maybe Tony you will have some more people, or already have some more ex GOers giving up more history.

    Today’s story is spectacular.

    PS: And people subscribe! I’ve subscribed two times! Thankyou Scott Pilutik.

    • flyonthewall

      The DMA thing is confusing to me bc I understood that DMA is on good terms with CoS but they still associated with Young after the comm ev findings came back and his daughters disconnected. Is that den of GO crims drifting away from CoS?

      • Techie

        The Guardian’s Office got busted big time after the higher executives in it Like Mary Sue Hubbard went to jail. If you were “former GO” you could not be in the Sea Org, you could not go to the Int Base. But really this was all for show so they could tell critics or the IRS that all the bad bad things that were done to Miss Lovely etc. were done by bad apples that were later thrown out. Meanwhile they set up things like this DMA so they could keep track of the former GO and didn’t just throw them out into the street to become whistle-blowers.

        • flyonthewall

          no, that can’t be right. There’s plenty of ex-GO in the upper echelons.

          https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/tag/warren-mcshane/

          Plus DMA was set up by individual ex-GO operatives not the CoS

          • salin

            It’s getting murky for me.

            • flyonthewall

              it wouldn’t be scientology if it wasn’t murky 🙂

            • salin

              New Name for Scientology: Long Con Ron’s House of Murk.

            • Juicer77

              You can’t see anything, and the stench is powerful.

            • salin

              Name and Meme.

            • Juicer77

              (f5) Your wish is my command.

            • salin

              Love It!

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Yes, that’s an intricate sub story.

            Hubbard wrote “Simon Bolivar” policy, and that policy is OSA today in the same way that “Fair Game” as a term was cancelled, but still employed.

            “Simon Bolivar” policy says in a nutshell you have to operate at the ethical level of the society you are living in. IF that means the authorities are “playing dirty” then you have to play like authorities, which is why Scientology’s intelligence branch continues.

            It’s policy, “Simon Bolivar” is the bible policy for OSA. It sets the boundaries.

            Hubbard is to blame.

            Now in terms of the actual day to day people, the Linda Hamel’s and Warren McShanes, and all down the lines, there are the Jeff Quiros’s of SF Org (Jeff is old time GO and known for doing the bad stuff Jeff had Tommy Gorman doing.) There’s the older GO people that were on Gerry Armstrong’s case for long time, the Rockls up in Vancouver, Hilary in particular and Ray Rockl were on Gerry Armstrong’s case.

            There the OSA lady today, Tony Chambranis, she’s old GO intel. She’s the EUS OSA lady intel boss or the NYC Org intel boss.

            SO YES, the old GO intel people are at the highest parts of Scientology, and in big cities and have their “Handling Programs” going on their totem pole “top” enemies in their sub areas.

            When I try to get my head around all I’ve read of Hubbard, and digest it all, it comes back to the simplicity of Hubbard putting the Scientology staffer jobs of intelligence people into his fake church.

            You don’t want and never ought have church staff who are your intelligence branch.

            The whole “warrior” great job Marty did, and the fighting war mentality, is just wrong for religion (the charity work and helping the aged, poor, is the biggest valid parts of religion and any soothing religion does, but intelligence branches are NOT a church thing).

            • Bernie

              People in the GO remind me of those working close with LRH who had “shore stories”, hiding actual activities.

              In Vancouver, there was an op against Gerry Armstrong and his wife Caroline in 2004/2005 (http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/legal/decl-2005-09-05.html) by Phil Helmer, posing as Rene Helmer. He got busted by them ultimately.

        • chukicita

          I am wondering if DMA employees have been or continue to be contracted to do investigations for the church. Instead of an internal GO or OSA, it could be seen as outsourced (by attorneys and not church personnel) – same folks, just different structure and arm’s length. And the “acceptable truth” of the GO members being kicked to the curb could be told.

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            You are wondering right. My handler who had to be kicked out for being caught in some dirt, was sent there. (found this out later) On my “retirement”, I was told they would not use volunteers anymore but Pi’s instead. Seem to be more on the up side and no connection found to members or the cherch.

        • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

          Techie,

          You’d appreciate this, but isn’t it ironic that the Sea Orgers took Skip into the Sea Org twice! And his daughter today is still in the Sea Org.

          In the 1983 time slot, that was the roughest time, for the ex GO people, they who were tainted were really on the outs.

          Today, the old GO people who have kids, those kids can be in the Sea Org! Kind of shows how the old GO people have played “go along, get along” and mind their manners and not bring up the past, to the degree that the recruiters in the orgs DON’T know that this or that person is “ex GO”. “Ex GO” is a kiss of death usually for Sea Org recruiters, I can’t see how Skip got into the Sea Org twice no less!

          I think of the INCOMM advices, and today’s “RTC Int and Pers Data Base” which is the secret database that the Int Base recruiters and RTC recruiters have access to, and it has in that data base who was “ex GO” and it has all the dirty summarized details of that person’s “out qualifications” so that the data base searches through everyone’s listed name and spits out WHO is qualified to work in the various echelons of the “Int Orgs”.

          The RTC Pers and Ethics Data Base is an INCOMM creation, and I believe someone in RTC or in OSA Int upkept it, in the time that I was using it, in the tiny tiny window of time I was the “In Training ESTO-Establishment Officer” for ASI in the fall of 1995 is when I used the data base. That’s probably a violation of corporate integrity, me in ASI, using the “churches” (Church of Scientology Internatonal) computer data bases for recruiting into ASI. But ASI has to recruit from the Sea Org (COS).

          Anyways, in that RTC Pers and Ethics Data Base, you’re so right, the “ex GO” tag on a name meant never to be recruited into the Sea Org, and never see the light of day being associated in many ways to today’s Scientology.

          • Techie

            Chuck, in ’80 I think the GO took over the whole second floor of Big Blue. The elevator button for the second floor was replaced by a key so only those with a key could push the button for the second floor. There were Assistant Guardians for Finance in every organization. The GO was riding high. Then Mary Sue and the others got busted and it was like day and night. Suddenly the “former GO” label was like “former child rapist”. But there were still GO type operations going on. No one person knows all the details of that time period, lots of records were destroyed. I think nowadays they are probably desperate enough to recruit anybody who will stand still long enough to sign up.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              1983 I used those old GO spaces, on the routing forms project, the OSA US was just carrying on doing those legal cases, and those 2nd floor wing above ASHO was all legal library and other old GO US and renamed OSA US (which then morphed into OSA Int and OSA WUS faded out). Routing forms people had to use the copier in the old GO print room, and I had to be the “watch” since I was “Int cleared” and the GO leftoevers still roaming the halls were indeed tainted with all that was ultimately Hubbard’s fault. Hubbard wrote “Simon Bolivar” sending Mary Sue on her course of intel defender of Ron and Scientology, and it all came back to her being in jail and Ron nearly going with her. That’s one narrative of Hubbard’s that came back to bite him, and it’s still biting everyone who signs those legal docs that Scientology pushes on all its followers. They become complicit with the Hubbard operation.

              Hubbard is the one who’s writings caused all this mess.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        The old GO staffers were very conscious of being legal, they toed the line, they were actually in their own way MORE bending to the laws, as they were ordered to break them (and Mary Sue and Jane Kember made it compartmented so the illegal stuff was being done by the smaller sub units or the head A/G (assistant guardian) in the outlying “churches’).

        Hubbard is ultimately to blame, the “Simon Bolivar” policy is quite clear that breaking the law if that is the climate of the times one lives in, that that is the course that Hubbard ordered the intelligence chiefs of the movement were to take! (It’s so damned paradoxical.)

        Anyways the on the ground old GO people who were not into the breaking and entering and infiltration operations and volunter PI work jobs that Scientologists had going, the other GO people were quite conscious to be legal and professional and do their faking like they are religious.

        The complexity of describing today’s leftoever old GO biggies working at DMA, that’s a book worth of details, and I hope one or more of the ex GO biggies who were in the know about it all, do do some writing.

        There is a lot of material history to be told.

        I know it sickens some to read Merrell Vanier’s book, but I read between the lines, I like to hear of his mentality, and I read his site today to see his mentality today.

        Older timer ex GO people have more the freezoner milder view of Hubbard and Scientology, obviously, in their heads.

        They in history terms, were lambasted and hated by Hubbard in his final years, per the advices traffic I read. But they were unbelievably mostly faithful to that earlier and what is today the milder freezoner Scientology more tolerant Scientology mentality.

        This article today and the paragraphs I quoted and Skip’s talk of how the other ex GO people in DMA live and don’t talk about the past, is instructive.

        That whole LA community of older Scientologists who were part of the massive falling out from higher earlier Sea Org positions, I ran into one or two when I was at ASI as the computer guy there. ASI attracted in 1993 some helpful older timer Scientologists who’d already “been there/done that” in terms of them or their spouses being busted ex Commanding Officers of the Flag Bu and so forth.

        Lots of higher up earlier generation Sea Orgers and ex GO are all around LA still.

        The ecosystem and mentalities of the earlier generations of Scientologists particularly in LA where there are more of them, is intricate story stuff too.

        • flyonthewall

          *nods* It’s hard to imagine that a GO operative who was so willing and eager to do dirty tricks and commit felonies believed in a mild freezone Scientology. Seems like you’d have to be pretty zealous and fanatical to do that stuff. The type of Scientology that would call for you to commit felonies and destroy lives doesn’t sound like a mild freezone type Scientology, you know what I mean?

          I also really enjoyed Vannier’s book even though it also infuriated me. I thought it was a wonderful peek inside the mind of an indie and its inherent pretzel logic. The STL connection was of great interest to me too. I also loved how he described being put in what was basically a re-education camp for GO operatives. If looked at in the correct light and knowing what’s BS and what isn’t, it’s a fascinating read.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            outsiders call in branwashing, what that means in practicality is Scientology’s voluminous rules and regulations for achieving one’s dreams through Scientology really try the mentality and take up their time, so they cannot even think that things ought NOT be that way and get the hell out of the mess.

            It’s a massive dream operation, the people are lured long by high sounding goals and spiritual goodies and well meaning rules and regulations, but the proof is “no OTs” or no supersouled Scientologists who are spiritually improved who are doing good soul deeds in humanity and none are doing a damned thing that is supernatural.

            It’s a very voluminous SLOW con that takes years of fighting with one’s fellow Scientologists who are the staff gatekeepers to the rules that let one progress.

            It’s more than a brainwashing prison, it’s also an intricate operation that has all these well sounding barriers along the way inside of it that deflect and consume one’s efforts to even have the right to advance to one’s spiritual eternity!

            It’s a well drawn out con, and the people stuck in it, are stuck somewhere along the LONG drawn out internecine fighting and rules and options that Hubbard gives them to advance to his is “OT pinnacle” spiritual state.

            Hubbard’s books, those damned books have rules and steps and require intricate following, to reach to the end of the Hubbard monopoly game of spiritual supremacy and universe salvage!

            Hubbard’s the prolific narrator of this whole long show these people are stuck in all their lives (me, only 30 years now obsessed with this Hubbard mess).

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Thank you Chuck. I know you know a lot about them. Even a little of my own handler(s) as a volunteer, back in the early 80’s. Keep exposing and thanks again.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            thankyou so much Dee for going public! It’s the accumulated ex members continue to be public that makes this whole Scientology history story even available and it hopefully will inspire all the others who have stories to share them.

            It’s taxing on one’s brain being in Scientology, and it’s taxing when one gets out and tries to tell what one did there. Lots of mental reconfiguration to explain it without being stuck in it.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Thanks Chuck, it was a hard lonely road. When “Going Clear came out and I learned many new things, my fear left, bu do remain watchful. I can freely talk now, even tho it still makes me sick or nervous to some degree, so be it. I still have a couple more things to do on my Scio Bucket List. I’m always open to questions. But won’t tell what’s on my list in public.

            • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

              Yes thankyou for going public on your operative work too!

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              When in Ireland for “Enough is Enough”, Pete did a short interview, filmed by the Germans with me speaking out in public on the subject.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Hope so….

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        And one more reason, money. DMA ex GOers are respectul too.

        In today’s article, Skip Young mentions “Petition” and that’s the old Scientologists’ era justice method only older timer Scientologists are even old enough to know it used to be used, LOL!

        (When I was on the RPF, and Peter Stumpke, now deceased, was all turned in knots due the injustice of his RPFing, he was an OSA staffer who’d done endless good deeds, I one day had a 1/2 hour talk and laid out how he ought to follow the principles in the Ethics Book and do a Petition, and Peter then does up a petition and gets out of the RPF. I was an old course sup, and I’d done the routing forms project, and studied Hubbard’s principles line by line, and I knew of the older era Scientologists who DID petition like crazy when the policies blocked them from doing something in Scientology they wished to do, and the older timers knew that Ron used to gladly approve of petitions, and also I told Peter that the Tech FIlms, the Tech Film about “Captain Jak” who is a character who petitions to LRH, and LRH undoes Captain Jak’s “SP Declare”, is also reason to even DO petitions. LRH used to approve them, and the older LRH ED era of Scientology show examples of LRH doing great swings of direction due to input LRH received from people writing to Ron and complaining, respectfully. Respectful petitioning is or was an important option, …..now I’m soundling like an apologist, sorry, I don’t believe in a stitch of Scientology today…..and the point is that people like Skip who is above in today’s blog mentioning he petitioned, it shows he’s of that older mentality, when petitions did mean some hope for righting wrongs within Scientology.)

        • Skip Young

          My strategy since the Comm Ev was to try to use remedies contained within the system created by LRH. I have known (suspected) for quite some time that my communications to the MAA AOLA, the CJC at CLO and even to IJC were not being read by people who are old timers like me. They know little or nothing of the way Scientology life was like in its heyday. People were very friendly and helpful back then. But dealing with the church is like dealing with the government. If your communication is not in the proper format, it gets put into a “pending” basket or shredded and they move on to the next problem on their desk. They are bureaucrats.

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            Excellent info, for those that understand those subtleties of how things were under just 20-30 years ago when more longer time practitioners were still in the justice echelons (Senior HCO Int and even earlier older timers who lived through that earlier period when Petitions were way more numerous and many were permitted.)

            1978 was a heyday period of sorts but there was such a massive brain drain even in the final years of the 1970s I noticed among Flag Clearwater Apollo vintage people.

            If it would not cause much grief, I’d love to have someone like Chris Shelton interview you for your times in the Sea Org briefly.

            When I used to have more parents calling the 866-XSEAORG number (now defunct) it helped me tell parents who were concerned about their children who in recent years suddenly were on the PAC EPF,

            So I appreciate detailed details of recent EPF life, and the ratio of those that don’t make it in the Sea Org and what types of people are making it today.

            My impression was that it is 2nd or 3rd generation young people with large Scientology upbringing histories who have peers already in the Sea Org, and that there is somewhat of a young person’s cliquishness to the modern graduates of the EPF there at PAC.

            From the faces of the new Sea Orgers, and reading the names of he graduates, I see offspring names completing Staff Status courses and in the positions where their names are written on the promo and in the Auditor’s Mag course completions.

            I’d love to hear you interviewed by Chris Shelton is it doesn’t cause you any grief.

            Thanks so much for your views.

            Chuck Beatty
            ex Sea Org 1975-2003

          • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

            “New brooms sweep clean” principle, the young aren’t experienced enough, and apprenticing for 6 months or more on a post in modern orgs is out of the question, like sometimes there are some positions that the lower/helper person to the superior person, they get a defacto apprenticeship being so close to the superior job by the nature of their lower job.

            But it’s so easy for the young newbie staffers to act monkey see monkey do like those on posts (young and unwittingly inexperienced) so the net result like it’s always been, like in the late 1960s early 1970s, those holding Mission Holder status or ED Missions were long term Class 6s and Class 8s and had years of experience and knew the ins and outs and subtleties of treating each person who walked in the door appropriately per the “gradient” of Hubbard options and handlings.

            I sound like an apologist, but I know what you mean, I saw way greater nuanced handling by the more well trained, Class 6 and Class 8 long timer Scientologists.

            The kids today, what can you say, they get themselves in a group that has voluminous rules to choose from, and they choose the rules that contain the scenes around them in simple black and white terms so they tend to oust the troublesome problem “older” Scientologists who look like squirrels to them, LOL.

            None of the young ones have lived long enough to even appreciate the older timer’s big win summary conclusions about “ARC” (the amity or love across the dynamics testimonial wins that the older timers often have summarizing their whole Scientology processing achievements/realizations).

            An older timer could talk and weave ARCU into a universal solvent narrative that the older leader Class 6/8 tech trained leaders who knew the tech, and who had heard the tens of thousands of wins of Scientologists they’d personally audited or listened to in their longer more experienced careers, it is experience the young ones haven’t risen to even know.

            It’s worse, as you know.

            And for most outsiders, this all goes over any and everyone’s heads, and I sound like a rank apologist for Scientology.

            Freezone scientology I don’t even fully support, but the freezoners’ have that attitude of using the tech as the core of Scientology, and they dispense with trouncing on one another as much, my impression.

            I’m happy if you are happily neutral and out of Scientology, and merely witnessing it and seeing like all of us, which way it goes now.

            Thanks again.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        No

      • Skip Young

        Let’s be clear, they had no choice but to remain “associated” with me. I am one of the most senior adjusters and have an excellent performance record. They have to tread lightly with regard to enforcing church doctrine in a civilian workplace. As for the comm ev findings, very few people were told about them. The church did not go public with the comm ev results because they wanted me to meet their demands, pay the money, do the Sec Checks, do the amends and get back into good standing. And I actually tried to do that, but I just could not bring myself to admit to crimes I had not committed. It was a matter of personal integrity. As the months dragged on, I realized that the people with whom I was dealing were robots, unable to see any other viewpoint.

        • Frodis73

          They have to tread lightly with regard to enforcing church doctrine in a civilian workplace.
          Hey Skip. Maybe the fact that you are high up on the chain of command will protect you, but for the record, the church has been sued quite a few times around the world for doing just that (forcing scientology into the workplace on civilians).

          • Skip Young

            Yes, and I am counting on that legal precedence to offer me some protection from any planned retribution. I’ll keep y’all (a southern term) posted.

            • Mirnaminkoff

              They will find a reason to fire you Skip, count on it. Keep notations and a diary, they have been doing so since well before your comm eval. Make arrangements for another line of work, There is a long legal history of DMA firing anyone in their employ not in good standing with the CoS. It will not protect you, just make your life more complicated. The CoS and it’s associate are very adept at long drawn out legal to drain you financially and emotionally, many with more resources, support and lawyers have been destroyed by the cult. They make a mockery of our legal system and abuse it to drive people like you into the ground.
              http://smokyhole.org/mm/mm26.htm

            • Frodis73

              Hi Skip, I am happy to hear that. i know you have read many of the comments on this post today and you may think some have been harsh. 🙂 Leaving the church and all that indoctrination takes years…sometimes the reality of just how horrible the church has been (and still can be) doesn’t really settle in for awhile. It’s good to hear you are on top of this angle so you can prep for whatever they try…I’m sure they are not done with you…esp now that you have come forward and talked with Tony. I do wish you the best and hope you do keep us posted.

        • flyonthewall

          Thanks for the clarification Skip and good on you for not bending to them; I would guess that no amount of bowing and scraping would ever be enough for them anyway.

          Thank you very much for sharing your story and I hope your family is reunited soon.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Thanks again Chuck, good info.

      Chuck Ohl was my first handler, my only contact for at least two years while in Clearwater. I remember after checking into a motel downtown (I had actually come too close in town, but didn’t know it). Called the number given me the day I left Miami and Chuck came by on his motorcycle. I really liked Chuck.

      I stayed there maybe a month until I found an apartment in Largo, then had to find a paying job, as my funds were getting low. We started work right away. Me going downtown to basically infiltrate the SOS (Stamp out Scientology) headquarters run by Richard Tenney, a city commissioner (unable to find now and sure wish I could) and Alex Cromier, an ex, who I found is deceased.

      Two years later, unknown to me then about the changes with GO or why Chuck had to leave, (not need to know basis, haha). Then Ben, who apparently moved to Clearwater, introduced me to Neil O’Reily from LA, a green young guy, imo.

      I’d really like us to hear from Chuck. He would be able to open a very large can of worms.

    • Skip Young

      Again, I do not have anything negative to say about the folks where I work. I rely on them to earn a living and they have been very nice to me over the years. If I had to guess as to their state of mind regarding the old GO days, it was the wild and wholly west; it was a no-holds-barred shoot-em up with the immense power of the Federal government breathing down Scientology’s neck. I was a casualty in a war that really never should have happened. If the old GO operatives would have never engaged in illegal activity… if they church would have simply hired top tax attorneys to cut a deal with the IRS in the early days, even one that did not involve full tax exemption, many people’s lives would have been very different.

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        Yes, Merrell Vannier’s book gives much the old thinking. I’d say from today’s article that your attitudes ought to be the way things ought to be, with Scientologists NOT treating everyone around them as “SPs” and definitely not disconnecting.

        If Scientology is going to make any progress it has to be like DMA has been treating you.

        Good roads good weather, just use normal “ARC” and that’s all, nothing further enforced by Scientology business WISE members on their employees.

  • Sejanus

    Skip seems like something of a slow learner TBH.

    • Dice

      Hubsy wrote a lot of books, it takes time.

  • nottrue

    Skip that shirt….love it

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      When I was on staff way back in the ’70s I bought myself a puffy-sleave shirt. I was the Academy Course Supervisor at the time. I got the courseroom started and the Director of Training sent me home to change. That shirt was the topic of conversation for months afterwards.

      It was black velvet, with gold buttons at the top as well as on the cuffs. Not really a Course Supervisor acceptable sartorial choice.

      • Dice

        I once bought my Reg. a shirt with the text “I am Right” on the front, and “You are Wrong” on the back.

  • Gerard Plourde

    Like any scam, Scientology claims to have “secret knowledge” that will give a person power to be in control and guarantee results in a situation. And, like all scams, this just isn’t true. Because we humans abhor uncertainty we are particularly susceptible to the lie. The saddest part of this is that the desire for power and control over others that Hubbard promised is sought what he sought himself and this goal is genuinely embraced by the true believers (including Miscavige). It’s all about aggrandizing one’s “self” (the “thetan” inside) to gain control of others.

    Skip is having a real struggle here. What he wants more than anything else is to be reunited to his daughters. He’s so desperate for this that he’s willing to do anything to achieve that goal. If Scientology would give an inch and let him have his family back, he’d happily go away. They’re not going to do that, though. To do that would cede power and control to Skip.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Absolutely!
      I remember when i went back after so many years and being in ethics many months. I finally asked for a comm ev as in the ethics book which they made me read again, it says you can request one. I was really pissed and demanded one. They wouldn’t do that. I figured out why later.

      • salin

        I’ve read this experience by others as well.

        It confuses me – but that’s to be expected as Co$ is rather confusing.

        Here is how it reads to the uninitiated: Efforts are made to woo back the person who has drifted away. Then once back – expensive and exhausting ethics is part of the ‘welcome back’ experience. salin: what? Woo back with a slap and a bill?

        What am I missing?

        • Juicer77

          Mu guess is, part of the humbling/retraining. If you have the balls and/or brains to question or leave, you have to be well slapped down and re-thought trained in order to come back. If you continue to question while you’re trying to “route back in,” they know you’re too risky to allow back in. Sort of like the personality test on newbies!

          • salin

            That makes sense – in a mind-control sort of way.

            Truth in Advertising – Handwriting on the envelop style –

            Answer our Phone Calls! Come on Down and See Us! Love that you are Back! So we can threaten you while you pay for the opportunity of being berated!

    • BosonStark

      All those years of knowingness, being certain about certainty, and acquiring special OT powerz, but it seems like Skip has just about reached the “I don’t know” level in the CHURCH OF UNCERTAINTY. And we’ll be happy to have you in our club!

  • gtsix

    Well… this.is one hell of a read.

    Thanks tony for such a good Saturday postt.

    I don’t even have snark.

    • Juicer77

      O.o

    • SucculentDuck

      I do. But out of respect, I’m doing my best to refrain from unleashing a barrage of what would most likely be my unhelpful opinions highlighted with colorfully inappropriate language.

  • JOE BLOW

    Though legal battles won in court against the cult are certainly helpful in bringing it down. The information war I believe is where Mr. Young could have the most influence.

    $cientology lawyers CANNOT stop someone from looking at a billboard, reading a bumper sticker or a stencil on a sidewalk. They CANNOT stop the relentless bad press coverage that is intensifying daily. They CANNOT stop people hearing damning radio interviews against their criminal behavior, or reading exposes of Miscavige’s crimes. On and on, and on it goes….

    David Miscavige is losing and he knows it. His survival is hanging by a thread and he knows it.

    And OSA….you know it too or at least you should.

      • BosonStark

        Great visual metaphor for the state of Scientology. It’s real, right?

      • richelieu jr

        “Get it. Read it, Use it.

        Then be sure to flush the used pages away.

        You’ll find the cover a bit to glossy and smooth to be truly useful, but once Hubbard starts shoveling his shit, you can start wiping yours– And there are a LOT of pages, most of them probably unread, even if you stole it from the most passionate Scilon’s shelf.

        Why, a full copy of Dianetics in paperback can get a family of five through two nights of doubtful Indian food with a suspicious amount of spice covering something up (much like the CoS, now that I think of it!)

        How do I know Dianetics is mostly unread by Top Scilons?
        Because if they’d actually read it, they probably wouldn’t have stuck around.

      • Dice

        It looks fine to me! Would it be possible to collect all the addresses for billboards around? There must be a database somewhere.

        • aquaclara

          Each outdoor company maintains a list of their inventory. Some are on contracts that have been continuously maintained for years (and so, are not really available), while others rotate often.

          Best bet is to narrow in on a geography, a stretch of roadway and see what the companies have available. Tell the sales reps what you’re trying to accomplish, and have them help you.

          • Dice

            ok. Just thinking they have a permit and then it would be in some official record – one could also run a google streetview in selected areas. It would be cool to have in the event of making a strategic campaign , now that i know $cn hates the idea of billboards that promotes call-iners to call their parents!

  • BosonStark

    If Scientology ended their SP and disconnection policy, the cult would dissolve to half its present size within a few months.

    It would be a disorganized mess of indie nutters, people believing whatever is true for them without feeling compelled to pay extraordinary sums of money for processing or donating to the IAS. They wouldn’t be afraid that they might lose their eternity because they were connected to an SP, because there wouldn’t be any SPs to fear. It wouldn’t be Scientology.

    • Dice

      People should disconnect from Scientology

      • BosonStark

        And Hubbard was a big ol’ SP. Scientology was Hubbard’s attempt to disconnect from himself.

        • Dice

          He was disconnected from reality, so he wrote about it in a book 🙂

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Exactly! (laughing, at last)

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    DMA Services, formerly known as David Morse & Assoc. Lovely place to work, especially if you’re a scientologist and like to spy on people. This is just a small sampling.

    “How Surveillance Can Assist Claims Handling” March 2016 Video by Brad Balentine of David Morse & Assoc.
    http://www.insurancejournal.tv/videos/13302/

    Well, he and the other Scientology Family employees at Morse should know about that subject.
    Here’s Brad in Feb 1982 on the subject of surveillance of Gerry Armstrong.

    Good place for subcontract work for Private Investigators too.
    https://marksmithinvestigations.com/About.html

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Then there’s the Poulin scientology family. Just google them. Paul, Priv Investigator, Morse & Assoc, his wife you’ll find scurrying around in the Narconon scams. It’s a tight knit, spies spying on spies and your mother network. The Scientology Family. And they’re not all from Jersey.

      http://www.davidmorse.com/resumes/Adj_Paul_Poulin.pdf

      • richelieu jr

        Not from Jersey perhaps, but GoodFellas, one ‘n all…

    • Sunny

      Brad Balentine is my ex-step uncle. His mother died in the Sea Org in 2004.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s almost like an Irish family – somebody’s related to somebody somewhere! I didn’t know his mom was in the Sea Org too.

        I was just looking to see if Mary Heldt is still with Henning. For any newbies, here’s another look at one of these great guys Skip wants to not spoil their reputation, Henning Heldt. See link

        My favorite is when Henning compares himself to Martin Luther King, how he complains after being busted for his part in Snow White, he had to spend thousands on sweeping his home for bugs and suspected his phone was tapped. Also, the photo of him and his gang in the ape suits is kind of precious.

        http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=39386&start=15

        • Sunny

          Yes, a small world. His mother was only in the Sea Org about a year or two. She passed away from complications of the flu. 2004 flu was particularly rough on a lot of people in the Sea Org. Because she was elderly, maybe that was why? I honestly don’t know because when she passed away I was already in deep doo-doo and on baby watch.
          Another connection is Brads brother, Glen (who was married to my mom for about 8 years I think) was twinned on the RPF with Anna Stilo (who is in a few of those harassment videos of Rathbun). Anna was in the RPF a good 8 to 10 years. Some people never wake up, what can you do? I think now she is OT VIII? On the RPF she was Clear.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            wow. There is so much in that paragraph, Sunny. I don’t even know what to say. so sorry

          • aquaclara

            Oh, wow. Oh, NO. And that Anna?! Sheesh. In the regular world, there is 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon. In Scientology, it’s more like 3 degrees of, well, everybody.

            Those early and often marriages seem to connect pretty much everyone who ever took a course, was stuck in the RPF or did a stint in the Sea Org. Disconnection does in fact reach everyone, I’m seeing. How horrible.

            I have to admit, I did a facepalm over that Anna. She is wacky. Even the Debbie Cook letter might not have made a difference with her.

    • richelieu jr

      Excellent stuff, this @TheHoleDoesNotExist:disqus.

      Nice find!

  • richelieu jr

    ” But he also realized that they were worried about government agents trying to infiltrate the local “org.” This wasn’t an unreasonable fear. Scientology’s Washington DC org was infiltrated by the FDA in 1958 during its years long investigation of L. Ron Hubbard’s health claims, eventually resulting in a 1963 raid and an eight-year court fight. Government investigations of Scientology had also taken place in England and in Australia in the late 1960s. Scientology was vulnerable to government action, and Hubbard’s personal paranoia was shot through the organization.”

    tl;dr–
    When you are shoveling shit down people’s throats and calling it sunshine, you get nervous when people come sniffing around.

  • richelieu jr

    Glad he’s in our side now. Yet another “Saul of Tarsus moment’, except it wasn’t exactly light he saw, it was the same laser slicing through families he’d seen all along, only now it was his– AND THT MEANS WAR!!! And he wasn’t riding an ass so much as being one, whilst simultaneously being ridden by one.

    Your family? Meh, not so much…

    Hell, If he lives to be what– 110, he can work himself back to even.

  • Observer

    Better late than never, I say. People like Len and Skip are crucial to taking down Ron’s Abomination. If there were no long-time ex-members who were involved in dirty tricks but now have become disaffected or experienced a change of heart and are speaking out, it would be far more difficult to take the monster factory down. At some point the combined stories of all these people are going to reach critical mass.

    • Supper Powers

      And we have to dig deep for empathy.

      • Observer

        Any of us could fall prey to something evil if it’s disguised well enough. Nobody sets out to join an organization that will bring financial, mental and familial ruin.

        • richelieu jr

          Not completely true, but those folks are rather rare.

          Still, actions count– as F. Scott said “Action is Character”.

          ” Nobody sets out to join an organization that will bring financial, mental and familial ruin.”
          Yes, but when you do end up there and keep digging,you have a real problem. And if you get there and start puling others in, or stomping on them for fun or to look taller to the head midget, or covering up murder and torture, then that is what counts;

          You will find precious few judges who will find man guilty of premeditated murder but Innocent by way of snot intending to do it when they started out; Guilty of Rape or Unlawful Imprisonment, but a Good Guy Who Gets a Pass because he says he apologized in private and dies inside when he hears about it.

          Many, many children are molested, neglected and abused. Not all become serial killers (or robbers, or rapists, or Trumps, or Scientologists), and those who do are righty considered and treated differently than those who don’t.

          You would be surprised how many people on Death Row (I am against capital punishment, FWIW) felt they were doing it for God, were justified morally, or saving the World.? Ex-Scientologist Charles Manson considers himself an environmentalist. Hitler was a vegetarian, blah-blah-blah…

          I was a heroin and meth addict for years, but I never stole anything, prostituted myself, hassled people in the street, etc..

          There must be difference for someone who is just a supporter of the Evil Organization and someone who is actively chasing down those fleeing for freedom, someone who thinks they are saving the world by printing pamphlets and someone who is hiding money, showing secret ‘confessional files’ and punishing 12 year-old girls for crying for their mother when separated from her– for the ret of their lives.

          This who use police resources to break the Law (Real, true-world crimes, not Scilon ones like caring, showing emotion or not buying a second e-metre.) Those who break into buildings, listen to phone conversations, convince children their mother is a ‘fucking SP’ or lock 4 year-olds in bilge-lockers.

          Destroiygin evidence and obstructing justice are real-world crimes. YEs, Hubbard’s little song n’ dance confused them and twisted thier thinking; but so did Nazism, and we s-decided that wasn’t enough if an excuse then, not even for Judges who were enforcing the Law of the land as they had sworn to do.

          IT is very dangerous to white-wash anyone just because they sa they have had a change of heart– especially when they have a history of lying when convenient and dosing out information on a need-to-know basis.

          How can we know if someone is free of the taint of Hubbard? Do they still think they are better than us? Do they still avoid the law? Deny obvious positioning and politicking for power? Call us names? Wogs? Groupies? Issue angry threats of lawsuits?

          The best predictor of future behavior is how one behaved in the past, and how honest they are about it.

          People can and do change, and I truly, like so many here, want and even NEED to believe this. But not to the point where I am going to cover my eyes and dismiss crimes because someone says they die inside when asked about the people they hurt.

          Some people deserve to. And we have judges and laws and an imperfect system that is not just the brain fart of one narcissistic, paranoid, manipulative psychopath.

          and I do absolutely believe people have made gains and gotten something out of Scientology. OF COURSE they have. But I did on drugs as well, and I don’t think that justifies me becoming a dealer of diluted heroin, nor that anyone speaking honestly bout the dangers of drugs and addiction is trying to ‘take away’ or ‘deny’ my ‘wins’.

          How can you tell someone still has their mind o askew? Listen to them try and say Miscavige is the problem, or try and make it question of their ‘wins’ proving there is goods in Scientology.

          Hypnotism, lying, manipulation, disconnection, human-trafficking and child-abuse are FEATURES of Hubbardism, not bugs. Your “‘wins’ however area side effect and the smoke and mirrors while your pockets got picked.

          The whole problem was the 100% provably false frame Hubbard gave you to hang around the idea that staring at walls and into people’s eyes for hours is hypnotic and trippy and talk-therapy makes you feel good–
          It in no way proves Freight trains on Venus, or warm spots in the Van Allen belt, or at that all mothers try and abort children, that you have genetically become Homo Novus, that ‘a state of ‘clear’ exists, that there are OTIX-OT200, the BattleField Earth is any good, that Hubbard was good photographer, a War-Hero, or more than rough and inferior draft of Jabba the Hubbard; that we are Wogs, ‘raw meat’ or inferior to ass-hats surrendering their free will to strangers with broken lie-detectors or that you can leave your body or ANYTHING.

          This Free Pass, Pat on the Back ‘Ain’t We Enlightened and Friendly’ business is wonderful up to a point. But we should be more interested in the Truth and in not being used as a tool to sell books or to rehabilitate Hubbard’s reputation? He has left millions and thousand
          s of slave laborers to do that, we don’t need to help.

          • Observer

            I never said anyone should get a free pass. But I do believe in showing mercy and compassion to those who have awakened to and are genuinely remorseful for the awful things they have done while still holding them accountable.

            • richelieu jr

              Of course you didn’t say that, @obs@Observerinthewoods:disqus , nor do I think you are guilty of 99,9% of what I decry here.

              I truly did’t mean to aim this at you, or to imply that you were the perfect example of The Problem in any way, though I can see how you might take it that way, and I apologize. Perhaps I should have been more carful about my phrasing and where I placed the post, even though it was partly in response to some of the implications of your honest and generous statement.

              Yet, I see no reason why this corrupt ex-cop should get a free pass just because he cries when it happened to him. So he wants to see his kids, That means that he is n’t totally inhuman. Hitler loved his dog. Plenty of so called ‘Pro-Life’ Republicans willing to cut off health services for all women because they can’t tell a blatant piece fo false propaganda from the truth, see the light when it is their girl who gets knocked up because they KNOW SHE isn’t bad…

              Always glad to have someone truly see the light. The more the merrier and the fewer over there, even better.

            • Observer

              Sorry, I wasn’t being defensive, just making a statement. I didn’t think you were accusing me of anything. I have this persistent habit of announcing the final destination of a long train of thought and assuming people understand how I got there.

            • richelieu jr

              No worries, my friend. I totally got where you were coming from.

              One good thing about the regulars on the Bunker is no matter how hairy it gets, or the tone gets raised a bit (and NOT on that dipshit tone scale!), you can pretty much count on the fact that they are good people, basically trying to work through this shit honestly and openly in thier own way.

              As for your process, I’m in no posution to criticize. I am rightly notorious for just pouring my scattered brains process across the page and hitting ‘send’ of late.

              xo

            • Observer

              <3

            • vicariousthrill

              yes, and always entertaining!

            • beauty for ashes

              ” I have this persistent habit of announcing the final destination of a long train of thought and assuming people understand how I got there.”
              toootally stealing for my quote box 🙂

            • Skip Young

              Dear Cardinal; I can handle the invective, but let’s be clear about some facts. I did not engage in any “corruption” while on the police department. I violated two department POLICIES having to do with accessing police records for non-police business. Others who had been caught doing that were given a two-day to four-day suspension, nothing more. I did not commit any crimes, state or Federal. I read your comments with interest, but please make sure you employ facts.

            • OceanMomma

              No offense to you that may very well be or have been the case where/when you were a police officer. But, here are my facts. In my town an officer was fired, prosecuted (some law regarding his illegal use of the station computer for the search)and lost his pension just recently for doing exactly what you described. So you’ll have to forgive those of us who find your apparent lack of concern/contrition regarding your invasion of the privacy of numerous people somewhat unnerving.

  • Supper Powers

    fuck you Disqus.

  • OT: could someone go to howdycon.com and see if the site is up for them? it seems it’s up for some and not for others…..i’m one of the ones it’s not up for—the whole server is down for me…..we’re trying to sort this out…..

    • StudentOfLife

      Works fine for me. I plan on being there.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Working for me.

      • fuck……i’m totally locked out….no sites, no email, nada……

        • Dice
          • thanks, already got my answer though! 🙂

            • salin

              whew! I could feel your frustration building a state away.

            • it’s STILL building!!!! thus far i’ve spent 4+ hours on this……GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when i went to bed last night i just figured the server was down….but apparently it’s just ME!! I wish it had been the whole server cuz this is fucked up!!!!!! i’m gonna have to have my friend forward my email to a non-server based email addy cuz i’m totally cut off and have zero access……

            • salin

              An affinity GRRRRRRRRRR. If I see what looks like fog rolling it – I know it will be steam coming from your ears in Cleveland.

              Take a break from it. Go peek at the crocuses see if the late bloomers have decided to come out today. The soon to bloom daffodils are calling you… ‘Miss Tia, come take a peek’…

              Sorry you have got trapped in a technology sand trap.

            • i have things to do inside….fucking wasted hours on this shit……its also cold today……i’m beyond fucking pissed at this point…….like i have nothing else to do?! i’m ready to get the sledgehammer…..

            • beauty for ashes

              A thought to make you laugh. Look who I found on my bathroom counter top when I turned on the light. For the second day in a row! First day it was right in between the light fixture and the mirror. It scared me, and I peeled off the cover of amy poehler’s yes please after I had caught it with a Tupperware container. He peed all over Amy Poehler’s back cover when I finally slid it underneath. I told him not to be afraid and I was going to take him outside. Luckily Amy Poehler’s book cover rinsed off nicely. If I meet her I’d like to tell her this story, because after reading her book (mostly) I’m sure she would appreciate it! <3 <3 <3 Ps. If you need a butt transplant my family just like the kardashians would make excellent donors.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Maybe it’s lunar. LOL This weekend is nutty here too.

          • i can’t laugh at this……i’m in physical agony, i’ve lost so much weight my butt is bony and it’s awkward to sit, and NOW i can’t even fucking get in my email!!!! i did NOT need any more fuckery thrown at me!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Awww honey, I’m sorry to hear that. Sending *hugs* ❤

            • oatmeal x 3 is a drag….it would have been worth falling down the basement stairs if it broke my jaw, cuz then medicare WOULD have covered it! HAH! this is good practice i guess when i’m w/o internets cuz i HAVE to get to a damn dentist…….i’m just gonna turn the damn computer off for the rest of the day cuz this is beyond frustrating to me…….fuck it…..fuck it all!!!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Wish I had some techie knowledge to help you hon. ; ) I’m guessing someone around here can help though (if you’re still here).

            • getting ready to turn the damn thing off…..my friend is helping me….cuz it’s their server i can’t access and only their server……that has my sites on it and my email…..i have done verything possible…..they’re an IT expert…..right now they’re stumped too…..i don’t particularly give a fuck anymore at this point……wasted most of the damn day…..

              one bonus—no possible emails from ‘you know who’ fishing for info, insulting me, and trying to send me on guilt trips…..they can fuck right off and because of THEM i’m quite content i can’t attend except when eddie decides to drive up!! i think i’d tell them off if i got face to face with them……i know i would today!!!

              now i’m going offline…..you can always phone me……alt email craftymisstia(at)gmail(dot)com but fuck it, i’m going offline…..i’m not meant to be online…..the universe is sending the signals i’m just fucked in any/all ways…..

    • Observer

      Works for me.

    • richelieu jr

      Works for me here in Paris!

      (Turns the knife in his wound, adds more salt..)

      • i didn’t know you were wounded? o_O

      • MaxSpaceman

        Paris, Texas ?

        It is a nice little town. Houses are inexpensive. You will have an idyllic retirement there.

        • richelieu jr

          Close… Paris, France. And believe me, even my apartment was not inexpensive here.

          As for retirement.. Well,a boy can dream, can’t he?

    • Juicer77

      Looks good.

    • Works in the UK, too.

      I once got my IP blocked by my own server after I entered the password incorrectly too many times. Everyone else could access the site except me… perhaps you may have done something similar…

      • i haven’t had to enter a password in a long time…..good theory though!! it seem that it’s just me that’s locked out…..i have tried everything i can think of…..clearing dns cache/ip config/new dns servers….nada….i can go anywhere/everywhere except for the sites on my friend’s server….which also has my email….ARGH!!!! pings time out…..i’ve tried different browsers, even created a new profile on the computer….

        the only thing that i found also weird, is when i disconnected my router and plugged the internets directly into the computer it told me it couldn’t renew my ip address…..i sent that off to my friend—after i reconnected the router, as then i couldn’t be online AT ALL!!! just ran a virus scan, results clean…..

        gonna restore the system to a couple days ago……last thing i haven’t tried!!

        • If it’s just you that’s locked out chances are that the server is blocking your IP. i would go to a webpage like ‘what’s my IP’, then forward the result to your friend, who can ask their provider if this is the case.

          Either that or some security program on your computer (e.g. anti-virus, firewall, browser extension) has accidentally blacklisted the site.

          • I fixed it!! At the 8+ hour point and when I was ready to get the 10# sledgehammer, I got it fixed! It wasn’t a security program, as I had turned them off and tried. Damn thing. Beyond frustrating!! Thanks for your suggestions!!

            • Glad to hear it. Whatever it was, it won’t get you again – not after all that effort.

            • It best not!!! But if it does, my 10# sledgehammer is up here ready to properly fix things! 😀

    • aquaclara

      It works just fine, Miss Tia. Thank you for doing all this work….

    • flyonthewall

      works for me

    • Kestrel

      Works just fine for me.

    • vicariousthrill

      i got it

  • Roger Boswarva

    This is a sad, sad tale so typical of the insane enterprise of Scientology.
    Here is a guy who honestly served based on his beliefs . . . and who honestly actually carried out the organizations technology to resolve doubts and issues arising from “the Debby Cook email” . . . it’s called the Doubt Formula . . . . he acted to honestly inform himself.
    And what was his reward for doing what Scientology tech says you should do????
    Well we read all about it here . . . some individuals likely young enough to be his children who know nothing other than the insular doctrines of living 24/7 within the confines of the enterprise and who have no outside life experience, tell him he’s bad for applying the actual technology that the tech says should be applied.
    The actuality is that Scientology is the game that everyone is destined to lose in . . . this because dominant opinion and misuse of power positions rule . . .

    And of course, they lie, they lie, they lie. Once you are accused of something bad in their eyes, they fantasize and fabricate in their tiny minds the “crimes” they falsely accuse of.
    As I have said, and continue to say, the Church of Scientology is actually its own worse enemy, this because it violates its own doctrines and makes everyone who will not kowtow to its demands an enemy . . . and it wonders why it continues to only see enmity about it! They are not bright enough to see they are creating everything outside of itself as an enemy.

    • richelieu jr

      Could be worse. They could actually FOLLOW their own doctrines…

  • mikecrosby

    How Mr Ortega hasn’t won this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulitzer_Prize

    • Dice

      He could if he would look in the right direction and see the connections to the real enemy. Those who protects DM IMO!

    • aquaclara

      We need to nominate him….when’s the due date for applications?

  • Great reporting, Tony. This is why we come here every single day. What a layered, complex saga.

    Welcome to the Bunker, Skip. So, you woke up with the house on fire, and, of course, you had no choice but to run out into the street. No time to figure out how the fire was started or how it acclerated so quickly. Now you’re out and you have outrage at Tiny Fists and his cavalcade of cray-cray. How about Hubbard? Maybe the old man set the fire. Could it have been your own daughters who threw the first match? Or, did Debbie Cook flick her Bic and cause the blaze in which you were so rudely awakened? Maybe your boss at your last job helped fan the flames? Your ex wife and her big OT VIII hubby? So many suspects. So many matches.

    Now that everything’s down to smoke and ash, I think you might want to look in the mirror. You can blame Hubbard for his megalomania and his amazing con, but I think that was just the fuel. For flames to rise, it took you to strike the match by saying “no” to the Church. In my experience of following the story of Scientology for the last two-plus decades, every ex who wakes up finds themselves in a blaze of one sort or another once they speak against the church. Every year you stay in builds up extra fuel. You were in a long time, so I imagine the fire is pretty damn hot. But, it can be a cleansing fire. Let it burn. Let it rage. Make sure it burns away all the dreck Hubbard’s followers jammed into your head. This is a fresh fire and I’ll bet it’s really not out yet.

    Tony was right about us. There’ll be a few who’ll welcome you with open arms, a newly rejected victim of Scientology’s cruel dictums. Some will say “you made your bed, now lie in it.” But most will have a more nuanced view. As I see it, you’re still a Scientologist. You’ve come and gone so many times, now. You’re an OTV. You bought (or simply ignored) some of the biggest whoppers Hubbard spun. You’ve seen the dirty tricks, hell, you’ve done the dirty tricks. And now they’ve been done to you. The cruelest one. Disconnection. So, it was off to the enemy of your enemy, hoping they’d be your friends.

    Will you find friends here? I hope so. We all need redemption in our lives. We all make mistakes. Ten years ago, I woke up with my own house on fire and walked away from an abusive relationship, and 20 years of magical-thinking, into the cold, bracing wind of reality. Listen to the exes here. Listen to Chris Shelton. Jeff Hawkins. Tory. Nora. Marc Headly. Jenna Hill. Listen to Sid, and Hole and rest of those (too many to mention) who have not just survived the fire, but prospered and deepened their compassion and humanity because of it. Some of my very favorite people have turned out to be ex Scientologists (not that you should care what this opinionated, never-in thinks). For my own very complex reasons, I despise what you and so many of my friends here had to go through because of Hubbard’s long con. I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and my support in your battle to recover your family. But, take care of yourself first. Take the time to disentangle Hubbard’s thoughts from your own before you throw yourself into a battle with a desperate, cornered animal.

    Fire season’s just beginning.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    • TexasBroad

      Artoo, this this one of the best comments I’ve ever read in the Bunker. Thank you.

      • richelieu jr

        Hear, hear!

      • And that’s one of the best comments I’ve ever received in the Bunker.

    • Dice

      Cool.. That’s more like it :_) Expose the scam in your head and then take them on!

    • aquaclara

      Artoo, you are talented and nice. And you said this so well.

      Thank you.

    • Always Amazed

      Artoo, You have a great way with words and you are a mind reader too.

    • richelieu jr

      Very Nice @Artoo45:disqus!

    • Baby

      Artoo.. I just woke up..

      This comment should be put in the Untangling Scientology History Books… Brilliant. thank you. baby

    • vicariousthrill

      Yeah!

    • Sejanus

      I suspect the fire was arson.
      Self started by careless smoking of Kools.

  • Sherbet

    I’m seeing similarities between Skip’s story and that of Brian Sheen’s. They scream “Uncle” when disconnection hits, but, prior to, they’re pretty loyal scis.

    Still, when they leave the church, that’s something to be commended. They just have to be careful not to treat the church as having a revolving door: Get the children back, and then one can roll back around to being a fan of Ron’s. I think Skip and Brian probably know that, so who am I to judge their motives or extent of the Ronwashing they’ve endured? Somebody downthread applauded Len Zinberg for his stance, and I have to agree. He apologized for being a church thug, particularly to Paulette, with no agenda or gain for himself, and is moving on.

    • salin

      Not sure if you missed it, but Brian dropped into the Comments here the other day. He has come a long, long way since we “met” him last summer. He dropped in before meeting with Paulette (for drinks or a meal), had read TUML, and expressed that he has seen and accepted the awfulness that originated with Ron. It was really great to see/read.

      I hope that Skip follows a similar journey and that the families – all disconnected families are reconnected.

    • richelieu jr

      @she@disqus_VC3aqXJaLk:disqus, Nicely said, much more clear and concise than my diatribes.

      I couldn’t agree more!

      • Sherbet

        Thanks.

    • beauty for ashes

      Read as
      “pretty loyal cics” 😉

      • Sherbet

        Ha!

    • MarcabExpat

      Brian Sheehan is exactly where my mind was when I read this. The credulousness, it burns!

  • nottrue

    All the people affected by disconnection should get together and do like the people of the jonestown family members did and get a senator to help them.

    • Dice

      wtf?

    • Dice

      I could be wrong, but i think those people isolated them self and took their own life?

      • nottrue

        Not their family members who were not in the cult and got Congressman Ryan to help save their loved ones from Jones

        • Dice

          if we could get the attention from a Congressman it would draw attention in the right direction, you right about that. Hasn’t it been tried before?

          • Sherbet

            I may be generalizing, but it seems no Congressman was interested in investigating deaths at narconon. If it smells of religion or scientology, hands off!

            • Dice

              I think you right there, i remember something, but it could be turned around, so when people reject paying attention, there would be something to reveal.

            • Sherbet

              Not sure what you meant, Cube, but I think we agree! 😀

            • Dice

              I think i need coffee!

        • BosonStark

          Scientology has a weird connection with their sister cult, Jonestown. CAN (Cult Awareness Network) was started after the Jonestown massacre and one of the founding members was Ryan’s daughter.

          When Ryan visited Jonestown, after interviewing many members, only 14 of 900 people wanted to leave, and he was ready to report that “it was a nice place.” Ryan thought that if even 200 people wanted to leave, it wouldn’t warrant trying to shut down or interfere with the operation of Jonestown.

          They had staged this happy party for him and Ryan thought the place was great. Then they shot him and the others in his group as he was trying to leave on his plane.

          Toward the end of his second year in Guyana, Jones had deteriorated mentally and physically to the point where he wasn’t going to let the people who wanted to leave get out alive. He was very paranoid. They even rehearsed suicide protocols.

          I think Scientology finds it even easier to fool politicians than Jim Jones did with his fully integrated Christian utopia, which several politicians had praised. People like First Lady Rosalynn Carter were hoping to hear Jonestown was a huge success.

          Other politicians were practically promoting it. As we know, Scientology has so many more social betterment programs, and since they aren’t leaning toward communist Korea or Russia, politicians like Scientology even more. And they love Tom Cruise!

          Scientology killed CAN and keep their own cult sipping on Jones’s leftover Kool-Aid stock. Instead of an agrarian community which grows food, Scientology plans to just keep harvesting money.

          Any politician can see Scientology is not like Jonestown. They’ve got a golf course, swimming pool, many happy zombies, and Tom Cruise!

      • salin
        • Dice

          Yes, but my point was, that this action drove the rest to this finial “solution”?

          • salin

            Right – but I don’t think they isolated themselves. I think Jones isolated them.

            Why am i arguing with you? Semantics. We both had the same response. 😀

            • Dice

              I know 🙂 ill stop here
              ETA: it wasn’t my intention. sorry

            • salin

              I was laughing at my compulsion to explain how we differed semantically. Just thought I’d share my internal laugh. No need to be sorry.

            • Dice

              Me too 🙂

    • Tony Ortega

      And boy, did that work out for Congressman Ryan!

      • Sherbet

        Ouch.

        • richelieu jr

          Hey, does that hurt? Let me do a touch assist here…

          Now, just take a deep breath, relax, and show me on the dolly where the Travolta touched you..

          • Sherbet

            You are full of pisse et vinaigre aujourd’hui, your Cardinalship, sir.

      • nottrue

        The point is they got somebody to help. It is not going to be like that in this case

        • Dice

          Maybe we should just leave jonestown out of it 🙂 then it might work!

          • nottrue

            They got someone to listen to them. The family members did. They got a Congressman to help. This scientology shit is not going to be like jonestown for crying out ioud

            • Dice

              At least they will vote for him. jk!

        • richelieu jr

          Let’s not forget the free drinks!

      • richelieu jr

        Yet,, Congressman Ryan did not die in vain!

        The word went out– Ryan tried to act, to DO something. He put his money where his mouth was (doubtlessly force to spit out the Satanic Cock of Big Business and Banking to do so), and look where that got him!

        The cry went out, far and wide– Remember the Ryan!

        And no congressman has ever actually tried to do anything but grandstand ever since… Even filibustering has been toned down as being to physical.

        And they all lived Happily Ever After.

        THANKS OBAMA!!!!

        • nottrue

          Well said

    • The “somehow” was that Congressman Ryan had lost a nephew to Scientology. (Lost as in his van was found in the California desert, but no body.)

    • Juicer77

      Assistance from government figures would be a great help in getting the tax exemption revoked. When it comes to reuniting families, government help only goes so far with the faithful. They need to hear from their disconnected loved ones and see for themselves how they are blackmailed into staying. They need to be given a chance to choose freely. Perhaps officials can help by putting pressure on law enforcement to investigate criminal behavior (abductions, withholding passports, fraud etc.) but that’s as far as their involvement should go. I take issue with the government messing with my private relationships. That’s not their business.

  • Dice

    I think this Skip needs to wake up! A petition using DMA as messenger?!? he he I think he should wake up DMA for a starter.

    Otherwise i like him and to turn against him with disrespect, would just be down OSA’s alley – don’t do that!

  • Panopea Abrupta

    $cientology is a lot like a homeopathic dose of truth –
    any truth that was ever in it has been diluted and diluted
    so much, it is mathematically impossible that any remains.

    Lennon wrote an alternative version of one of his songs about it.
    He named it for Lord Hubris:

    “Gimme Some Tooth”

    I’m sick and tired of hearing things
    From uptight, disconnected, narrow-minded hypocrites
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth

    Ive had enough of hearing things
    By neurotic, sociopathic, pig-headed $cilons
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth

    No long-nailed, yellow-bellied Ron, the tricky dicky
    Is gonna Mother Hubbard soft soap me
    With just a pocketful of hope
    Money from rubes
    Money from dupes

    No long-nailed, fat-bellied Ron, the tricky dicky
    Is gonna Mother Hubbard soft soap me
    With just a pocketful of hope
    Money from rubes
    Money from dupes

    I’m sick to death of seeing things
    From tight-lipped, con-descending, DM’s little chauvinists
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth now

    I’ve had enough of watching scenes
    Of schizophrenic, ego-centric celebrities, prima-donnas
    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth

    No long-nailed, yellow-bellied Ron, the tricky dicky
    Is gonna Mother Hubbard soft soap me
    With just a pocketful of hope
    Money from rubes
    Money from dupes

    Ah, I’m sick and tired of hearing things
    From uptight, disconnected, narrow-minded hypocrites
    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth now

    Ive had enough of reading things
    By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed $cilons
    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth now

    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth now
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth

    $cientology: As mad as March hares

  • Mark

    That was a saga and a half, Tony! Somebody guessed you were writing another book yesterday, but this certainly counts as a novella 😉 Interesting illustrations too—though the trouble with old snaps is they do tend to get inadvertently cropped after a while… (Refreshing one’s lexicographical knowledge):

    • Skip Young

      That is one of the pitfalls of a blog; alterations of true intent.

      • Mark

        I think we can all safely say “If I knew then what I know now”. Here’s hoping you’re reunited with your daughters as soon as possible.

  • Science Doc

    A very famous civil attorney who was once my neighbor would always offer legal advise by first saying that a lawsuit requires two things, a cause of action, and damages. Scientology always causes damages but usually without a cause of action that can survive preliminary rulings based on their contracts, statutes of limitations and other defenses. Unless Skip is sitting on a mother load of evidence showing tortuous acts against him causing significant damages he is going to find himself as another angry victim who will get little or no relief from the courts. If he is willing to satisfy himself with causing hurt to the beast, he has come to the right place. If he is sitting on doxs, he can give them to Tony and move on with his life.

    • Dice

      I like the last sentence!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      ^^^^All of this.

    • Juicer77

      Make copies and send them to the IRS, too.

    • Linda Clement

      Isn’t it deliciously ironic that $cientology’s basis of “truth” is an entirely fictitious Source, but the long struggle against it has the always reliable Tony Ortega?

      47x⬆

  • One day in July 1977 LRH was at the secret base in La Quita, the next day he was long gone. He didn’t return until New Years of 1978 and in the days leading up to his return things were really crazy: staying up all night snipping mentions of LRH out of everyone’s pc folder worksheets, hauling box after box of documents out the a large fireplace on the property and burning them. My first all-nighter in the S.O. What a zoo those days were.

    • salin

      Tantalizing tidbit. What were you told was the purpose of this effort?

    • aquaclara

      That was a sign….

    • Sunny

      Wow. The truth shall set you free. Except when it will put you in prison for life. Then burn it to keep you free.
      Yeah, religion.

    • Dice

      Why did they do that?

      • Eivol Ekdal

        A reaction to the Snow White FBI raids.

        • Dice

          Ahhh! make sense..

        • salin

          Too bad they didn’t excise some of the words/ideas rather than just mentions of his name.

  • Mirnaminkoff

    What always amazes me about these “investigators” and spies the cult uses is that they spend countless hours harassing and spying on “critics” but never bother to turn their investigative skills to look even for a moment at their own organization who is asking them to do all these unsavory actions. It boggles my mind.

    I’m also stunned that up until a few weeks ago that Young only wanted all of this to go away and be accepted back as a member in good standing – even with all he knew. It’s amazing how people can be in Scieontology for decades, and see all manner of abuse and bad behavior, but ONLY when it happens to them do they suddenly cry foul. I’m sure Young has spent many hours investigating and tailing former dedicated members who had been declared SPs, but it was never a problem until he became that SP.

    If the cult welcomed him back with open arms tomorrow would he happily go back to doing their bidding? (It will never happen but it was amazing how naive he was during the process – he seemed to actually believe there was some type of justice in the CoS. Incredible. I only truly feel sorry for his daughters who never got a choice in the matter and have been brainwashed from birth to follow the dictates of a narcissistic, sci-fi con man. The girls are paying the heaviest price for their parents’ unquestioning, tragic, obedience. I can only hope they wake up before ALL the best years of their life are robbed from them by the evil cult working them 16 hours a day to line the pockets of DM.

    • Sherbet

      You make valid points, Mirna. This will be a wait-and-see story — will he have the ba11s Phil and Willie do? Time will tell.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      I’m sure he will spend many hours and years in tears over this, while he purges.

      • Sherbet

        You’re a kind woman, Dee.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Thanks Sherb! This what happens, to me and others when they realize their mistakes, while finding a loving heart again and true state. If not they are lost!

          • richelieu jr

            Yes, it does, and my heart and admiration go out to you on this painful, intensely personal voyage of self-discovery, improvement an d– hopefully– healing and growth…

            That said, I see little reason to believe this guy is on anything like the same voyage… He seems to be more on what we call a ‘Delayed Rathbun’ wherein one is hoist by their own petard, given a taste of what they’ve been dishing out, then instead of facing the same shitty Scilon music (Thank You For Listening!) they insisted others take, runs for it and lashes out in anger with threats and puffed out chest and puffed-up sense of Injustice.

            You do indeed seem to be a very generous, optimistic, forgiving person, all things I would aspire to be… I would be glad to see your optimism proved right and my own pessimistic ‘clairvoyance’ proven wrong this time.

            Fingers crossed…

            • Sejanus

              “Delayed Rathbun”

              Sounds like what you get after some bad Mexican food. lol

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Thank Richelieu Jr. and agree with delayed part.
              In time, my dear, as one grows older as we all do. I’ll be a young 80 this June and I’m getting ready (I’m slow) for the pearly gates in the next decade or so. Time does heal, but needs some speeding up, as one gets older and hopefully wiser.

      • Yeah, I didn’t talk about the whole convulsing on the floor in sobs realizing what a mess he made of things. Been there. Done that. Might do it again. I don’t thing there’s a way forward without that kind of release.

    • Bernie

      I don’t wonder you are stunned! It’s crazy, crazy, crazy….when outside looking in.

      I was blind for a lot of years, having bought into the long, slow con. For me the tipping point was personal as well….wanting services that I couldn’t afford and being pissed off about it as “bad management” and then being called every day for 13 months to buy the “Basics” book package. I felt harrassed and tried to stop it to no avail. By then I was in a frame of mind to take in some interesting internet information provided by a trusted friend. This led to reading more and more information and I was out.

      What is amazing to me is that I met so many worthwhile people in scientology, people who are/were decent and helpful and intelligent. Any spiritual gains any of us had from scientology, or any gains we had from helping out others, far far surpasses the slimy insanity of Hubbard and the self serving greed of Miscavige.

    • mikecrosby

      Every now and then I read something that is so self-evident, I think, why didn’t I think of that. Your first paragraph does that for me. Thanks. I think of the leaders of N. Korea–how do keep up with the twisted logic?

    • Skip Young

      Excuse me, Minkoff. Tone down your hostility. You don’t know shit about they way my girls were raised.

      • Mirnaminkoff

        It’s not hostility, it’s a fact. Your daughters have disconnected from you and dedicated their lives to the CoS – they chose the CoS over their blood family – that’s how you raised them to be and believe. Listen to LRH, not their hearts. They had no choice in the matter, they were raised at the knees of true believers. Their decision to disconnect is the result of a lifetime of conditioning which you fully supported and even paid for. I wonder, did they ever witness you disconnect from “SPs” growing up? Or know about your work spying on SPs who dared go against the CoS?

        My spouse was sacrificed to the altar of the SO by a parent when they were 14 years old, luckily they got out in their early twenties but I still rage at all that it denied them (education, opportunity) and even more the PTSD they suffer from years of unrelenting slave work and cruel abuse. I sincerely hope above all else your daughters escape the organization before the best years of their lives are in their rear view mirror and before more damage is done.

        In my shoes I have ALL the empathy and compassion possible for 2nd generation Scientologists and SO members, their parents are a far more complex matter.

        • Skip Young

          Technically, it was their mother (the one who dumped me a few years before they did) who trained them that way; but I see your point. thanks.

  • richelieu jr

    ““But that’s the mindset they had at the time,” he says, describing an era when Scientology felt under attack and was willing to go to extreme measures to fight back. ”

    So that ‘era’ would have started when, exactly? From just before the publishing of Dianetics until– What time is it, exactly? It is 19h17 here in Paris and they are still at it.

  • richelieu jr

    Another priceless name! Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you, “Master at Arms Slavka Bottomley”.

    Wonderful! Just pulpy enough (Hubbard himself would have doubtless gone all the way to “Vodka Slatternly”…

    It truly seems to me that the CoS has more than its fair share of wonderfully exotic, doubtfully conceived, names. I hope someone is keeping a list!

  • Sherbet

    Melissa prepares for HowdyCon (leaving Sherbet home).

    • flyonthewall

      sweet shirt!

      • Sherbet

        I got 2 of them. Nice quality.

        • flyonthewall

          oh u didn’t have to get me anything, thnx!

          • Sherbet

            I thought it was only fair, after all we’ve meant to each other.

    • Jimmy3

      Keep that doll away ok

      • Nat-leficent

        Jimmy3, does the widdle dolly scare you?

        • Jimmy3

          No. I just piddled a widdle. Dat all.

        • Sherbet

          She used to be my avatar.

      • It moves at night. Just a little bit, but that’s enough.

        • Sherbet

          I always thought so.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          When you pull the string, it sings out, “My name is Tina and I’m going to reg you!”

          • Sherbet

            That’s more frightening than zombies.

          • (Sits in bed, saucer-eyed, clutching covers and flashlight.)

    • Newiga

      The shirt is sweet but I’m freaked out by the doll… O_O

      • Sherbet

        My husband calls her Bride of Chucky.

        • Draco

          I am with Mr Sherbet on that. Didn’t want to say anything at first, cos I’m sort of polite that way. But I hope you don’t leave her home alone with the pets while you’re away!
          😉

          • Sherbet

            You don’t worry about me, only the pets? Sheesh, Draco! Anyway, we keep sharp instruments away from her. Just in case, you know.

            • Draco

              Fur babies might not recognize the evil glint in her eye…

  • MaxSpaceman

    Dave’s Slaves.

    The daughters may or may not wake up one day.

    L. Ron Hubbard Sr. set up a Gulag Archipelago (Alexander Solzhenitsyn), a Lubyanka (USSR’s RPF prison), and a brainwashing manual (The Red Volumes (( or Green)) ). All to keep his volunteers as his virtual slaves. And his Party/Religions’ members loyal, afraid, always toeing the line.

    And here’s the gol’dangdest story along those lines that ya could ever imagine, across 40 freaking years.

    What Ron Sr. wrought remains. The minions now– Daves’s Slaves.

    .

    • When I saw that (your colloquialism), I immediately thought of “The Got Dang Song”, so thanks.
      This is from Curtis Mayfield’s last album “New World Order”.
      Recorded after his horrendous accident leaving him quadra/paraplegic, and while he used artificial respiration. (!!!)
      And, yet, its great, and one of his best.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLvzN0l_zx0

      • beauty for ashes

        Philadelphia has this great radio station 88.5 and program called world café. The only reason why I have any musical education and taste! Introduced me to some of my favorite musicians. Also you can listen live from that website, which I’m sure you’d be able to find if you like.
        http://xpn.org/world-cafe/cafe-downloads

      • MaxSpaceman

        Wow! Curtis, a giant of the times.

        Thank you for this– I had no idea he could and did deliver the goods after the accident, on a respirator yet.

        And a great song! 🙂

    • “Dave’s Slaves”
      and
      “…across 40 freaking years.”
      Nice observations.

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Open letter to Mr. Young:

    I’m sorry, but this story reeks. If anyone would know that getting a lawyer for this matter is ridiculous, it is you, Mr. Young. There are too many other pieces that don’t add up, conflict or just full of holes. I know a lot about holes. I’ve reread your story several times now and at least 75% of it smells like acceptable truths.

    But I’ll tell you what. I’ll skip over all that and just address the matter of disconnection. It sure is a timely one, isn’t it? If you really want to see your daughters more than twice a year, then this is what you will actually need to do. Start over on that amends and petition project by making up the damage and addressing the people, the families, the loved ones that you and your cohorts were responsible for destroying utterly.

    Start gathering up every story and scrap of evidence for leverage under every rock and partner in crime you can find. And you and your good friends can start liquidating. Many of them seem to be raking in some high 6 figure hush money these days. Enough cash and leverage could get you a cool $1 Billion to keep that many mouths shut. Then you can start disbursing those funds to all whose lives you have destroyed, replace the homes lost, the careers lost, the incomes and savings lost, and unite the families torn throughout the trauma years.

    But you can never replace the physical and mental health lost, the years lost, the time lost with loved ones, or make up for the stress, the terror, the humiliation, the degradation, the destroyed reputations, the numbness, the pain, the horror, the nightmares. That I can’t help you with, although I could use a bunch of billboards at the moment.

    The fair game crap these friends of yours have barraged Mr. Hole with, including this last year of once again doing their best to utterly and without sorrow destroy him, his sanity, and what’s left of his financial health after what has already been done … this is what you are still concerned about protecting? This is what you are supporting? We will never recover from what has been done to us and we’re just a few in a line of tens of thousands of others. That’s tens of thousands, Mr. Young.

    So until you find out where you really are, who you really are, and who your friends really are, you won’t be getting any Father’s Day cards in the mail any year soon. Anyone can hire a lawyer. You need to step up to the plate and Hero if you want to save your daughters at these late stages of decay. Anything less isn’t going to cut it. And I know you know that.

    • tl:dr:
      Clowntime is over.
      Nicely put.

    • vicariousthrill

      Powerfully written. I hope you and Mr.Hole receive bushels and bushels of blessings after what you’ve survived.

    • salin

      Powerful.

      Harsh reality to face when lifting the blinders off. But only through that reality – what was created/forced upon others and what havoc was wreaked on peoples’ lives through those actions – is there a different reality.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Salin, there is no time left to kid glove this. If only for his own daughters’ sake, he has to understand, he has to know, that the conditions inside the walls of that hell right now are such that violations of every human right, of every Geneva Convention rule for POW treatment, for anything that is not sadistic and torturous and vile is happening every single day.

        Some of them are only 13 years old or immigrants with nothing. It is only getting worse day by day, week by week. His own daughters are inside that hellhole. I know this. He must know this by now.

        • salin

          Your powerful sense of urgency captures the direness of the internal situation for folks inside, and the effect that time has. That as conditions grow more desperate (fewer people, fewer dollars, diminishing returns on regging – except perhaps at the whale level) for the organization – things internally will only get more and more harsh. I appreciate your spelling this out in your previous and this post. I hope Skip has the fortitude to read all of the comments today. It can’t be easy. I don’t say that to be generous (though I try to be that), but realistic.

          I don’t hear his understanding inherently how bad things are for his girls and everyone else coming through Tony’s piece today. I hope that he has the fortitude to read this because he *needs* to understand this. If wavering he *needs* to speak with others who can more quickly bring him to understand the conditions in which his daughters and others exist.

          I am moved by your imperative, deep compassion. I deeply hope Skip
          ‘hears’ your voice.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Thanks, Salin. I have personally known many of the thousands that have suffered, and hundreds who have died. It wasn’t easy for them either. I hope Skip hears all the opinions and comments here today.

          • Skip Young

            Heard !!

        • Skip Young

          Yes, I know it. I had the willingness and awareness to investigate when I was made aware of the significant problems referenced in Debbie Cook’s email. Prior to that, however, I was admittedly, clueless. No, wait a minute, I got an inkling of the trouble in July, August and Sept of 2011 when I was working in the call center at PAC. But still I did nothing until Debbie’s email. But please know this, I NEVER put any of this crap on my kid’s lines. I know them; they couldn’t handle it. There was no sense enturbulating those two wonderful people. This is my fight now and I will wage it as I see fit.

    • TheLurkingHorror

      ^^ This a thousand times.

    • Oops. I forgot to tell Skip that listening to you would smart a bit, but the most effective medicine usually does.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s but a fleeting butterfly kiss on the cheek compared to the pain and suffering of so many. Okay, maybe it Was a buttcheek, but still 🙂

    • aquaclara

      That life of yours and all those who were followed, harassed and taken down was hell. This is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. If he’s smart, he will actually take this in, and do what you propose.

      And of course, hell awaits him on the other side. That’s my religion, and I’m sticking to it.

    • ReallyMGM

      Standing ovation, THDNE. (And a HUGE hug!)
      Shit hasn’t even started to get real for him the way it has for the others he took part in utterly destroying.
      Thanks Tony for the story, even though it turned my stomach.

    • Spackle Motion

      A-fucking-men.

      This doesn’t pass the sniff test.

    • Dice

      I like the billboard thing 🙂

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Just for starters 🙂

        • Sherbet

          Note to self: Never cross THDNE. She comes out swingin’!

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Burns me for anyone to use our fears and sorrows and hopes on the subject of disconnection and families, Sherb. And I also am painfully aware of how things are for anyone, including his daughters, that are still on the inside, as well as knowing so many who’ve died and so many more that suffered so long, and some to this day. I have stretched my limitson forgiveness and compassion and I can forgive and empathize with this one too … but not one second before it is earned.

    • Sejanus

      Easier for a person to go to a mountaintop with a down filled pillow and empty the contents into the wind.
      Then proceed to pick up every single scattered feather.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Wow, and so true, thanks Hole for telling it like it is.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I was just telling someone that I can finally have people over the house again. If I’ve come off rude in not wanting to tell schedules or inviting over, or changing invites, it’s because people, especially women, have told me after a visit and then return to their home towns, they were being stalked, cars parked outside when alone, etc. I just couldn’t deal with worrying about or feeling bad about anyone else going through any more of this on top of everything that was ongoing. 🙂

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          I understand. And me too!

    • Skip Young

      Mr. Hole; Thank you for your comment. Sounds like you have had a much rougher time than me. I wish you the best. Skip

  • Sunny Sands

    Any under the radars reading this blog need to take note. No one, no matter how much they have done for the church, how many illegal or immoral acts they have committed for the church, or how much money they have given to the church, is exempt from being turned on.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Oh I think they know this by now very very well. Fear and terror is all that is propping up this corpse today. Fear of losing their loved ones, fear of being out in the cold with absolutely nothing but negatives, fear of being turned over to the authorities. There’s only a few left now that are perpetuating and delaying laying the remains to rest.

  • beauty for ashes

    Wow.

    • Frodis73

      IKR? This is a *great* story…it has both history and disconnection. Outta the ballpark again, for TO.

      • beauty for ashes

        This reminds me of the first time reading an article by TO about scientology. Both like, what else does this guy have to say? and what the hell else is happening within this story that I need to know? Oh and how does shit like this happen? 😉 Something I know we both are prone to think often!

        • ReallyMGM

          I felt the same way, Beauty. What else happened that wasn’t admitted to? Tons, I bet!

        • Frodis73

          Yes!

  • Bernie

    Thank you Skip for coming forward. There have been many, many, many ex-scientologists come forward with their stories but how many people who worked for the Guardians Office have come forward? Very, very, very few.

  • Sunny Sands

    Appreciate the time and in-depth interviewing it took to write this article. Also, the 4 pictures saved from the 1970s.

  • Fabulous blog today. Hats off to Tony.

    Yes Len Zinberg. I
    would also add the B-1 guys (Intelligence) in David Morse and
    Associates (Insurance company) in Glendale CA. Duke Snyder, Henning
    Heldt, (Joe Lisa is dead) Tom Ritchie, Chuck Ohl and others come forward
    before they die off. Perhaps they have all been invited to the upper
    OT levels so that they toe the line.
    David Morse and Associates (DMA)
    was used as if it was Class IV org. IAS sales people would plunder the
    coffers, money was extorted relentlessly. DMA even had a target to
    get x amount of arrivals at Flag before Thursday 2pm !
    Henning Heldt
    Deputy Guardian United States who knew all the rogue and villain deeds,
    was given clearance for OT 8. The other intelligence guys were all on
    Solo NOTS (OT 7) a few years ago. When Henning finished OT 8, he wrote a
    3 page success story, profusely thanking David Miscavige in the last 2
    pages of his Success Story !
    Then when DMA stats down trended dangerously DMA called back David Morse to turn the company around. DMA was dying.
    One
    of the first things David Morse did was to ban on Scientology regges
    (salespeople). DMA was off limits to Scientology staff. The next
    thing David Morse did was to kick out all Hubbard volumes and books, the
    red on white Tech Volumes and green on white Policy volumes were
    removed from the premises.
    The revenue statistics reverted.
    Skip Young I hope you get in touch with me Karendelac@gmail.com.
    Various Guardian Office at my wedding.
    Jeff Marino’s wife Molly in pink and blue with Tom Ritchie left side (BI ~ intelligence and Chuck Ohl ~ BI Intelligence) right side.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Pinellas County, Hillsborough County, Tampa Bay area of course has long been deeply and widely safepointed. In this area, there is a similar circling of the wagons, consolidating the players, and shrinking of the spider web networks currently happening. Here’s just one small example in the scientology tech/web industry. Reminded of this due to Mary Heldt, when she was in Clearwater, had access to details as Human Resources Director, including former GO and veteran SO members, later called SmartForce or CBT Direct.

      “But Sjouwerman has decades of experience. KnowBe4’s bottom line is healthy. The company’s staff seems loyal and dedicated to growing the business. So many former employees of previous startup Sunbelt Software are joining the new company that Sjouwerman calls it “putting the band back together.”

      So that’s Sjouwerman, Alex Eckelberry, Mark Patton (now with Malwarebytes), and a host of other names I thought had scattered with the wind.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevemorgan/2016/02/03/worlds-most-famous-hacker-raises-8-million-to-play-in-billion-dollar-training-market/#7902d084e407

      Duke was in town within the last year for more services at Flag. Duke and Paula’s name both came up in the most surprising places as well recently in Tony’s piece about the Cathriona White tragic story.

      “As you can see, DMA’s CEO, who happens to be Mark Damian Burton’s stepfather, is a man named Duke (Wake) Snider, 68, and he’s a very familiar face, at least to some longtime Scientologists.”

      http://tonyortega.org/2015/10/07/a-secret-scientology-wake-a-snow-white-link-and-more-odd-twists-emerge-in-the-cat-white-story/

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Omg Hole! I went to the site with Duke Snyder’s pic. It does look like the Duke Snyder who came to my hubby (I forget when, late 90’s or early ’00’s) with a scam for money in some Island, He would hardly talk with me and I didn’t trust him and in the end got 1K from David. We dropped out and afterwards we heard he died of cancer.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Ah, so sorry you and David crossed Snider’s path. Always runnin’ a scam. Duke ran HCO at St Louis when it was just a mission. St louis spawned a number of GO types.

          I think reading comments those who don’t know me think I’ve come off too harsh. LOL, and I’m the one who usually gets the comments I’m being too soft. hah. Well, you and I both know there Are criminals floating in this cesspool and for a long time. Some in the sociopath spectrum, but others not. I’ve known thousands they have hurt, including children, widowers, everyone and everything in between. I’ve seen and known the decades long aftermath in their path. I and/or Mr Hole knew some of these perps way back when and since. They stop short of murder, but they destroy so much and cause so much long lasting hardships. They’re mafia. I’m glad David didn’t get sucked in for more and worse. But you know how infested this county as well as L.A. is with these types. And many of them live lavish lifestyles on these profits of other families’ nightmares.

          Gahhhh. I was so upset still when I went to get a haircut toda, I was mindlessly babbling the whole time and didn’t notice how freaky short she cut my hair. Now I need a hat. 🙂

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            At last, another laugh after the serious stuff.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I need a funny hat:)

          • Baby

            Oh take a picture! I think you would look cute with short hair.. doooooo eeeeeeet

          • April Moonlight

            It will grow back. 🙂 Plus, you will get used to it in a few days and find you actually like it and it looks good. *survivor of many too-short haircuts* :p

        • Baby

          Wow.. Freakin scam artist..ugh

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Good to hear Karen, thanks. Chuck Uhl can reach me at dfindlay@knology.net. Love to hear from you Chuck.

    • Skip Young

      OMG, weren’t we all skinnier in those days!?!?! Just to be clear, when the DMA stats crashed in 2009, it was the direct result of the crashed economy. All the major insurance companies cut back, laid off staff and most of the business they used to send out to the independents – they took it back in house. When the economy straightened out, the insurance companies started assigning out business again because their people were severely over loaded. But I do remember DM (David Morse not the other one…) coming back to work at the company and the purge of all Scientology accoutrements.

  • Tracy Schmitz

    and once again for the upteempth time 1) how is any of this religious/church/faith like again? and 2) not a single cultie still in including the whales and celebs KNOW ANY OF THIS information of what has gone on for decades that is on this site LITERALLY DAILY?! don’t care to know, don’t want to know, don’t need to know and/or wouldn’t believe ANY OF IT!….

    • “…2) not a single cultie still in including the whales and celebs KNOW ANY OF THIS …”
      Nor any of the relevant authorities.

  • Hamtaro

    It’s amazing to hear from another person whose life intersected (in a bad way) with Henning Heldt.
    If there was a movie about Henning Heldt’s life, it would have to be called: “The Thing That Would Not Die”

  • J. Swift

    The Church of Scientology in a nutshell:

    “Thanks, guys,” he told them. “I’m fucked here.”

    Another magnificent article by Tony Ortega.

    Skip Young: You are doing the right thing in going public to expose the Church’s inner workings. I salute you and hope to meet you soon. The Church of Scientology is destroying itself by breaking up families through disconnection and yet OSA will not stop ordering disconnections.

    The GO had Scientologists who were both sworn and civilian personnel in many other law enforcement agencies. I know about Boston and LAPD and now we know about San Diego. OSA continued this program. IMO, no agency has been more infiltrated than LAPD. OSA, of course, calls it “safepointing” the Church when it is actually spying, invasion of privacy, and engaging in the illegal use of police computers by use of Scientologists who are sworn or civilian personnel. This is the kind of activity that the FBI and the police departments can be something about once they know about it. Whistleblowing is encouraged. No one who wears a badge should spy for their “Church” and they know it. They could lose their job, benefits, pension, and potentially face criminal charges and for what? To help OSA break the law with its insane Fair Game programs?

    Skip’s revelation here is incredible:

    Patrick, the subject of a recent documentary, was a self-taught cult deprogrammer who sometimes handled cases involving Scientologists, but Young wasn’t aware of that. All he knew was that his handler wanted Patrick targeted.

    “He asked me, ‘Would it be possible for you to plant some evidence and get him arrested and sent to prison?’ I said, No, fuck you. That’s a felony. It’s way too risky,” he says today.

    “But that’s the mindset they had at the time,” he says, describing an era when Scientology felt under attack and was willing to go to extreme measures to fight back. “That’s what we were dealing with. That was the
    level of rancor they had for some of these other organizations.”

    • Bernie

      And who are the people who are able to track flights and cell phones. Are they mostly dedicated scientologists working for travel agencies or cell phone companies? Companies that would have very definite policies on privacy.

      • Never mind corporate policies, in civilised countries we still have very definite laws about this.

  • Missionary Kid

    Last week, when I was in Los Angeles on some business, I had some extra time so decided that I would visit an Org. Since my business was in the Northeast portion of the city, I decided on the spur of the moment that I would stop by the Pasadena Org.

    I couldn’t remember exactly where it was located, so I drove around for a little while. I thought it was west of Fair Oaks, and south of Colorado Boulevard, but I was wrong. In looking for it, I pulled into the Salvation Army store parking lot to ask someone where Raymond Street was. I went in the store, and, as is my usual habit in thrift stores, I nosed around a little bit. Looking through the books, I came upon a hardcover edition of LRH’s book, Introduction To Scientology ETHICS. It was totally unused, and looked in perfect condition, but it had a person’s name carefully signed on a sticker on the frontspiece for that purpose. The price was $2, which is $2 too much but I bought it so it wouldn’t fall into the hands of some unsuspecting, naive, person. I got lucky. It was on sale at 50% off, so I only paid $1.

    I got the directions to Raymond Street, and then drove by the org. It is in a tall, multi-storied building, that was probably built during the prosperous 1920s. It had a plaque outside telling about its origin.

    When I grew up about 10 miles away from Pasadena, starting over 60 years ago and in subsequent years, I remember that area of Pasadenaas being busy, but going into decline because the purchase and construction for the 210 and 134 freeways had caused surrounding property to become neglected. The area had some good looking old buildings that represented a part of the monied Pasadena history. More recently, it has been renovated and retitled as Old Town Pasadena and filled with little restaurants, boutiques, and specialty shops. It is thoroughly yupified and very active, except for Scientology..

    There is a lot of foot traffic in the area, with people walking in and out of businesses, but most of it is on Colorado Boulevard, while the org is on a side street. As far as the org is concerned, it could just as well be a blank wall, for all the attention people pay to it, even though it is set up to look like a very large, prosperous, bookstore. Unfortunately, it only carries books by one very narcissistic author.

    I parked my car down the street, then walked by the org, noticing that there was only two staff inside, and no body routers outside, then I remembered that I hadn’t put any money in the parking meter, so I hurried back to my car and paid the meter.

    When I came back, there were 2 elderly people talking to a staff member inside, and as I walked in I was greeted from the side by a tall, good looking, young woman dressed in pants and a white shirt covered with a vest. I asked her what the place was, and she said that it was the church of $cientology. [Maybe it’s just my perception, but it seemed that she enunciated church extra clearly. Thinking back, it seems like I asked kind of a dumb question to ask, because the word $cientology is all over the place.] I asked her what their philosophy was, and she said that by using their scientific methods that one could overcome the barriers in their life. She introduced herself, and I gave her my name. She asked if I was interested in learning about $cientology, and I said yes.

    The org was nicely appointed with clean, polished, white tile floors, and what look like high-quality hardware and fixtures, with stacks of books and other displays all over the place. The entrance-way had a podium/desk facing the entrance, set back against the wall to greet anyone who walked in the door.

    I told her that I had to leave for an appointment in about 30 minutes, so I had some time. She said that they had a video about 10 – 15 minutes long that would help to explain some things, and asked if I was interested, and I said, “yes.” She asked me if I knew anything about scientology. I answered that someone I had worked with had been involved with Dianetics a long time ago, but that was it.

    She asked if I was interested in Dianetics or $cientology. I said $cientology. As we walked over to a door that had the words “In Progree” on a sign on the door, but she opened the door and walked in as if the sign had no meaning. The room was the size of a very large bedroom, with overhead recessed lighting. A screen covered nearly one wall, and about 20 chairs were set up facing it on a good quality, plain, neutral colored, carpet. I was the only viewer/”body in the shop”.

    My guide told me that the video would explain to me about the Affinity Reality and Communication triangle. She said she would be back when the video was over. When it ended, the lights came up and the young lady walked in as if they were programmed, and asked if I had any questions.

    I said that their definition of reality seemed to differ from the Greek concept of an object and its Shadows that the Shadows only represented reality but we’re not reality. She said that we agreed that this door was here so it was real. I countered that the door could be independently verified regardless of what our belief was, and that people often times walked into glass doors, assuming that they are not real. As I recall, she didn’t dispute me but continued on, leading me out of the video room. She didn’t get it, but she had a totally friendly, agreeable demeanor.

    I did not express that I felt that there was some truth to the video, but that the statement that if one item was increased or decreased that the other two were automatically increased in the same direction was total bullshit. It’s true that Affinity and Communication and Reality can affect each other but not in such a rigid way. Some of the best experiences I’ve had have been in discussions with someone else who I disagreed with totally, but whose opinions caused me to think. I disagreed with that person, but I still liked the person.

    I found their definitions to be very simplistic and narrow. If one accepts those definitions, then they are started down the Garden Path of deception. There is no acknowledgement that those terms, Affinity, Reality, and Communication might also have substantially different or richer meanings in society.

    I noticed a display about Purification, so I asked about it. She said that it helps people to get rid of the toxins that surround us everyday and the drugs that ere in our bodies. Since I expressed interest in it, she gave me a booklet to explain it and asked if I was willing to watch a very short video on the subject. On the way to the free-standing video that was set up just for Purification, I said that alcohol only stays in the system for one hour for every ounce that we have consumed. Then it is totally out of our system. Research has shown that marijuana stays in the system longer but eventually, because it is water soluble, it leaves our body.

    She started a video that was a part of a display on purification to play, then it seemed she was called away and told me she would be back soon. Having worked in alcoholism and having gotten somewhat of an education about drugs, I was fairly pissed by the time the video finished. My comment to her when she returned was that whoever set up the program had no knowledge of biochemistry because drugs do not stay in a person’s system for a long time. She replied pleasantly in a non-committal way to my comment in a way that really said nothing, and I said that I had to leave for my appointment. We said our goodbyes and I walked out of the building. Outside, there was another younger woman who was talking to 2 young male passers-by. I slowed down to listen, and it became obvious that she was a body router. I almost stopped and said something, but I decide to keep going. When I looked back, I saw that the two young men had continued on their walk.

    I had asked my guide when we were discussing things, how many staff they had for the building. She said about 60 or 70. I was too polite to tell her that my belief was that the number she gave me was probably higher then the total number of active $cientologists in Pasadena and surrounding areas.

    If cars were sold this way, they wouldn’t sell any. They’d all be sold online. It was very impersonal.

    • Frodis73

      I so wish I had a nearby org to go and visit. Great story MK, thanks for sharing.

      • Missionary Kid

        I’m glad you don’t have one. The fewer, the better. 😀

    • It’s a beautiful building isn’t it? And as usual, Gensler did a great job making it look beautiful. Gensler and Associates: Scientology’s Albert Speer.

      • Missionary Kid

        I love, “Scientology’s Albert Speer.” Great phrase.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      What an exciting and great experience. I loved you telling us.

      • Missionary Kid

        You’re welcome.

        I saw a total of 3 $cientology staff members, and I don’t know the status of the elderly couple who I only saw when I walked in.

        What I should have done was to ask the young lady how much organic chemistry she’d had, and if she’d read any papers on addiction. It probably wouldn’t have any good, because she was in the pleasant salesperson zombie mode, and wasn’t really hearing what I said if it conflicted with LRH’s ideas.

        At least, she wasn’t from a foreign country, like I’ve seenon Hollywood Blvd.

        There was no communication going on, because her mind was set, and I was only some wog off the street. I don’t know if she was simply staff or sea org, because i didn’t want to ask and give away that I knew a lot more about $cientology than I was letting on.

        I talked to an Ex, who was around when the building opened, and they said there were a lot more people that would be in the org, at the time of day I was there, as well as people coming in and out. The whole video presentation concept sure cuts down on the personal connection that brought people in back in the day. Thank you, Dave, for shrinking the cult by orders of mangnitude.

        In $cientology, Davy’s greed and desire for control trumps everything else.

    • Tory Christman

      Thanks for sharing this, Missionary Kid! Great story…and very well written, too. 🙂 <3

  • Nat-leficent

    I agree with the THDNE.

  • Linda Clement

    What I can’t get over is the photo of the San Diego org in the 1970’s. It’s got so many people in it.

    Except for the audience at events with mandatory attendance, I’ve never seen a real photo taken inside a $cientology facility that didn’t consist of highly polished empty rooms.

    • TonyOrtega

      The thing is, that’s not the San Diego org. That’s how crowded it was at a MISSION, which was a feeder for the org.

      That’s what oldtimers are taking about when they say things were rocking.

      • Linda Clement

        Thanks for the clarification. So this place would have gotten the axe when LRH purged the missions because they had become too successful?

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Who is the short kid with the mustache on the left squaring up to the smaller kid? That’s what I wanna know.
        🙂

        • Sherbet

          I wonder if that many people would crowd the mission daily if there weren’t some kind of party going on.

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            The missions are far and few these days. I’d even say they have no parties except to reg.

      • Juicer77

        Newbies need to read about the mission holders conference when they got eviscerated. There was still a control culture and the underlying thought stopping, but it was a much more informal feel good pyramid scheme of “publics” in those days. Someone correct me if I am mistaken.

        • gtsix

          That’s how it always is. A church is very different from a cathedral

          Yet they serve the same overlord.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Tony’s right. Missions were a much better place to be back then. I found out too late when in Miami and went to the address in the Demonetics book.

  • At least he came forward. Good start.

  • Jeb Burton

    He didn’t ” have a change of heart”. He didn’t want to pay $14,000. I would do anything to get my family back, especially if I was a true believer. Well truth be told, I would probably pay $14,000 to be rid of my family. But that’s beside the point.

    • Jimmy3

      You’re a class act, Jeb. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

      • Jeb Burton

        Thanks. I’m sure everyone agrees with you. Love my fans.

    • Sunny Sands

      Not wanting to part with the money is the starting point to, hopefully, the rest of the story.

    • flyonthewall

      he didnt trust them not to declare him even if he paid the 14k. Can’t really argue with him, would you trust ’em? Miscavige probably pisses away $14k before he finishes his toast in the morning. That amount of money is nothing to the cult.

      • Jeb Burton

        He trusted them enough to break the law when he was a cop.

        • flyonthewall

          that’s more of a risk/benefit thing. Regarding the NCIC violation, the potential trouble he could/did get in or risk was minimal to the benefit of getting brownie pnts with the cult. When it came to something more serious like planting drugs on a person the benefit was not worth the risk. Got nothing to do with trust.

          • Jeb Burton

            He still thinks he would of got his job back if he had the union instead of the cult attorneys representing him. The scum broke the law, and thinks it was no big deal. Just running innocent peoples numbers. Thats a big deal. Its a violation of your civil rights.

            • flyonthewall

              #1 the number he got in trouble for running was on Michael Meisner, not an innocent person by any stretch of the imagination. I’m sure he ran numbers on lots of people for the cult and that’s not ok but in this specific case it was Meisner’s he got in trouble for, just want to keep that straight.

            • flyonthewall

              #2 I don’t get what being a dirty cop in the 70’s has to do with not trusting the cult to keep their word for $14,000 30+yrs later. How are those two related?

            • salin

              Thanks for spelling this out – I wasn’t catching the apples and oranges comparison early. It’s a good point.

          • beauty for ashes

            That’s an interesting point about risk/benefit thing. hmmmm.

            • flyonthewall

              i just dont get how being a dirty cop and trusting the cult have to do with each other. Seems like apples and oranges to me *shrug*

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    This is a hell of a story with a lot of interesting inside information! A good read on a Saturday.
    I hope Skip Young continues his decompression after his 40 years inside the cult and that he will continue to expose the cult, all in the best possible way. I also hope his daughters will wake up and the family will be reunited.
    One of the first lines I learned to say in English was this:
    TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYoZRYC8O2o

  • Spackle Motion

    The number of ex-Scientology goons that spill the beans mainly because the cult’s tactics impact them negatively is sad. The ones that don’t have a dog to hunt in this game but still remain silent are the ones that need the encouragement to speak out. As the years pass and I keep reading these stories about the ex-cult scumbags that are finally “at war” with the cult because they personally now have a loss is disheartening.

    Not every ex-criminal cultie deserves accolades when their personal situations become untenable and they go public.

    • chukicita

      Maybe not accolades, but…

      I don’t know. This might not make sense to some people, and it’s not a blanket statement by any means, but let’s give people compassion where we can, even when it feels inappropriate.

      Nobody ever thinks, hey, I’d really like to join a cult.

      One of the ways Scientology is the Stepford religion is that while appearing to tout thinking for yourself, its actual impact is to get you, on a gradient, to behave more and more like Hubbard wanted you to. And to *only* behave that way. This is a guy whose personal affirmations included ‘men are your slaves.” The pressures are incremental, and you don’t realize you’ve swallowed the caca with the honey.

      I don’t think people who are striking out at Scientology simply because it is (finally) impacting them really need a bunch of judgment at that point. I’m against Scientology because it hurts people — and one of the ways it does that is by making them hurt others. I have to cheer on anyone who is fighting against that, even if it seems like they’re only doing it for selfish reasons. We don’t know all of it, only what he’s telling us. But we can agree that it’s wrong for Scientology to keep parents and children apart just to keep itself working.

      It’s easy for people who have had the benefit of making an informed
      decision about Scientology to pass judgment on those who have not. But I
      don’t think we can really understand what they’ve been through; for
      some, it has taken up most of their adult lives – and sometimes all of
      their childhood, as well.

      I hope that made any sense at all. I need a decent night’s sleep something fierce.

      • beauty for ashes

        You make a lot of sense. it’s always easier to judge someone in the beginning of their story too.
        having come of the worse night of sleep, I empathize and sincerely hope you get a good solid sleep soon!

      • Gertrudis

        Chukicita — It not only made sense but was also very eloquent and kind. Thank you.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I’m Miss Compassion, Chukicita, and I get what you’re saying. I will say that even in the GO and for a short while, OSA, there were many who didn’t know what criminality and fraud was going on, especially volunteers. And 99% of scientologists were not criminals. Besides OSA today, and who knows how small that ring is now, there are also the same old white collar crims that have been running one business scam or another, or a legit business but one where they have safepointing or spying added value. And the majority leave the moment they find out about the crimes and real abuse.

        The only ones left compromise what seems to now be a disproportionately larger percentage. Underneath them are those who’ve been subjected to this mental and physical duress in all it’s compartmented complexity, along with sleep deprivation and more, that all in this group are in pretty bad shape. Other than that you have the second and third gens and now that we are starting to hear Their stories, I can only shiver. The scammers truly are going to be the last to leave this craven racket. I shiver because the pawns and sleeping slaves are so heavily outnumbered this year.

      • MarcabExpat

        Chuki that was beautiful. We can exercise discernment and compassion at the same time.

        It makes us on the outside bang our heads against the wall to see the same scenario play out over and over again, but every one of those people is getting their first major dose of reality in years. Any of us would probably sound like them right after coming out.

        The younger you get out, the easier it is to start making sense again. All these baby boomers who bought the whole package in their cultural heyday (I betcha ten bucks this guy still loves “the tech”) don’t realize the world kept moving while they stood still. How can they, when they don’t even understand that that new, exclusive journey they undertook in the 70s was the mental equivalent of putting their brain in “Park” and closing the garage door? They’re lucky to get out at all.

        I hope he gets his family back. I doubt it will happen anytime soon, though. He is, once again, fucked here.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        You nailed it Chukicita, thank you!

      • TheLurkingHorror

        I agree with everything you wrote here, Chukicita, however, I’m not convinced of his sincerity. I have to agree with TheHoleDoesNotExist, that his trust has to be earned.

    • MissCandle

      Dear Spack,
      You are much nicer than I am because I was just going to say “Asshole.”
      Then I read chuk’s comment below and felt that I should be more compassionate.
      Actually, I am compassionate.
      And I still say ASSHOLE.

  • vicariousthrill

    I tend to trust no one until they acknowledge that Hubbard was a madman.

    • Dice

      I don’t trust anyone (irl) who has even read Dianetics!

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        That’s going a little far. My mother read it when it came out and warned me it was nothing. Hey, maybe I was of those that knew better, haha. Just to make her wrong maybe? Of course I had already started the courses when she told me that, too late. She was born the same year as hubboard and didn’t like him or the book.

        • Dice

          I know what you mean.. But I am referring to those who believe some of it being true and self-help stuff etc. When i have asked those who read it (years ago) about the term Homo-Novis, they have no idea what i am talking about, but they do believe that they read the book. Most of them did $cientology to be a part of something bigger and the appeal to egomania is still deep in those!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Uh-oh, it doesn’t look LRH is going to have a big turnout for his birthday bash at the Denver Org…
    (refresh)

    • salin

      Only 100 invited. That sends quite a message.

      • Sherbet

        It’s a win! They’ll need to set up only one table! Hip Hip Hooray!

        • Juicer77

          You’re my kind of party planner!

        • Kestrel

          It’s a double win! The refreshments cost will be next to nothing!

      • Dice

        That is strange!

        • salin

          Then consider how many of the 100 are family members of staff?

          • Dice

            Yeah! But that number is not real… It’s more like a target. So this reveals that they don’t have many active public in their books. I don’t know how big/small this org is, but that target would fit my old org and this is one event that everybody would attend and it’s not an enforced seaorg event like IRS or Freewinds.
            Edit: IAS event

            • salin

              Excuse me a moment: Hey OSAbot, if you are reading comments today, read this:

              It’s an ‘Ideal Org’. So the audience targeted to reach by internet/invitation is 100. In a city of more than 650,000.

            • Dice

              It is an Idle Org? omg he he. cute!

            • Draco

              Indeed, it is an Idle org, which is also an Ideal Org!

    • Dice

      They don’t have time, they are reading the bunker.

    • Sejanus

      That falls rather shy of the whole 47x expansion dealie.

      They must be busy volunteering helping millions of people globally..lol

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      4 are going? So Marc and Claire Headley and Kim. Does this mean Kim got a date?

      • Draco

        #4 must be Chris. He lives in Denver, doesn’t he?

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          There ‘ya go, Draco. And we know Chris will have film at 11. Can you imagine? I’d pay high dollar.

          • Draco

            Heh. At least they will all find parking in that huge, empty parking lot. Just don’t park in the VM Van’s parking spot. Or maybe it’s up on blocks, looking at Google earth, it has been in the same spot for a couple of years now. Hip hip ….

            • Juicer77

              Pfffffbbbbbbt 😉

            • Draco

              And exactly how would one pronounce that? The closest I can get (sitting here trying) is a raspberry!

            • Juicer77

              Exactly 🙂

    • salin

      Intergalactic, you find some of the most interesting internet ‘artifacts’.

      Conversation at the event: Well this year, we thought we would do something different. We thought it would be nice to let this be a staff appreciation event in the LRH give the gift tradition, so each staff member is giving a donation in appreciation of LRH.

      • Dice

        “hear new stories about LRH” I wonder what that could be?

        • salin

          I dunno. They discovered some record that belongs in the Guiness World Records (Religious Bigotry!) that LRH was the first man to swim the English channel in a single stroke – taking only one breath??? lol.

        • BosonStark

          Probably not about pinks & greys, or his cyst.

    • Dice

      These are the fab-four that are going F5

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      Typically to get out of the constant barrage of demands to go to an event you’d say you were going and then say the baby sitter didn’t show up, or the car broke down, and just not go. Out of the 4 saying they’re going to attend I’d surprised if 25% arrived. That poor guy.

    • Frodis73

      It’s amazing they can’t see that they are dying. If they were taking over the world these events would sell out in minutes, etc.

    • just wait til staturday

    • grundoon

      Scientologists don’t want to connect with the org on Facebook anymore because of the Chruch’s Facebook Police.

  • Quite amazing how the broadest of a generality can be such a power source of effect. In 3 words. “Change the World.” My auditor was named Jay Hanson that worked in Narcanon in 77 Burbank mission. Was he related to the Hanson in this treatise?

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Didn’t read it all yet. But the the church has zero ability to step back and ask themselves might this course of action come back to bite us in the ass.

    • beauty for ashes

      It’s really hard to take you seriously when you come in dressed like that 😉

      • Baby

        beauty.. It does attract my Johns though..so I encourage it..

  • KingofSweden

    I hope Skip is reunited with his beautiful daughters soon! Thanks for sharing his story, Tony.

  • Supper Powers

    Action on the Eagle cam. http://dceaglecam.eagles.org/#

  • I guess the question I would like Mr. Young to answer is – if Scientology cancells disconnection tomorrow and you will be undeclared and able to see your daughters and old buddies again, will you keep critically thinking and talking to them, to Tony and otherwise or will you get a comfy job at scientology owned business and resume your journey up the Bridge?

    Thank you for getting in touch with Tony, but also please consider getting in touch with those IRS workers and others you served with the bullshit subpoenas. Good luck, Skip.

    • MarcabExpat

      You spoke the true word, Dodo. Having a change of heart involves a helluva lot more than yelling, “hey, waita minnit,” when things suddenly don’t go your way.

    • Skip Young

      The fact is that the last service I did was at Flag in 2008, when I completed all the Basic books and lectures. And I don’t care if I am criticized for saying this, but I liked them. I like listening to Hubbard’s lectures, even though I knew as I listened that much of the stuff he was saying he was MAKING UP ON THE SPOT!! Someone above commented on how I could have gone and done OT 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 knowing it was all bullshit. Well, I didn’t think it was bullshit AT THAT TIME. I was a happy camper. I was pleased with my results. But what got me to really think about the real workability of the tech was the 2008 divorce. It was then I decided never to do any more Bridge. I will post more about that in the future, but the Reader’s Digest version is that I saw a person (my wife at the time) who while married to me, went from nowhere on the Bridge to OT 4, yet continued to act in ways that to me were… I will be kind… unacceptable. How do you give 20 years of your life to someone, only to have them walk away because you are not moving on the Bridge fast enough?

  • BraveBloggers

    Tony writes about disconnection stories often due to their frequency. Every time I read one (or read a comment that tugs on me) I call my loved ones just because I can, and it’s far too easy to take something so simple for granted.

    For those who can…call someone you love today for no reason other than to tell them you love them. But for the grace of God go you or I. (No overt religious intent intended. Just a phrase that seemed apt.)

    • ze moo

      Doubling down on the ‘discipline’ is one of the marks of a failing organization. It’s like herding cats.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Thanks, think I’ll call my brother. He left early in life for the Navy but my scientology experience messed up the relationship we had. It became better later, but purely social if you know what I mean. Never the same.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Oh my. I’m so sorry, Dee. Hope you two find a path soon somehow.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Nothing to be sorry about, we parted long ago and visited on occasion, but just don’t talk much, different lives, interests and far away. I have a new path, new lovely smaller home. All is pretty well, I must say. Thanks.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Well, to hell with him then! 🙂

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Hahahaha, it’s very hard to talk with someone who doesn’t really care, so we do the family correct thing, How are you, fine! Friends are much better than most family.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              OT Just noticed diff avi. I really liked your other ones much better. I think it’s just the lighting on this one – not as flattering as the others. I say this as someone looking in the mirror realizing my hairdresser made me look like Eraserhead today. I really gotta get a hat. And a new hairdresser.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              It’s the one I use on FB now. Yes, had a problem with Disquis and signing in again. Don’t know what happened. then it gave me old account or something, then new pic. Shit can’t keep up at times.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          It’s been on my mind awhile THDNE. “Find a path soon, somehow”?
          I can’t imagine what you mean! I’ve been on a spiritual path since my hubby passed away, and that’s looking forward to joining him, meanwhile lots of stuff to rid my environment of, which is my responsibility.

          The interesting path I’ve taken up since 2012, educating people about the insane scientology and supporting all those that do. That’s what keeps me going and will do until the day I die. Plus taking care of my health which changes with old age.
          Those are my dedicated paths which go together and don’t need a new one. Thanks, and sorry if I misunderstood you.

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          My brother and I are different paths but remain social and I love him of course.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Remember Arthur Erlich, the 16 year old whose mother Sarah bragged on Facebook about him joining the Sea Org last year? Well, apparently that didn’t work out. http://tonyortega.org/2015/01/13/claire-headley-explains-her-amazing-scientology-experience-as-tom-cruises-examiner/
    Now he is a rapper (Arthur Vieww) on “Private Party Boats”. Nothing says “gangsta” quite like a rich, white, clam kid from Beverly Hills trying to act like he’s from the hood…
    https://www.facebook.com/arthurvieww/videos/vb.100001326836192/993265314061020/?type=2&theater

    • salin

      Make.it.stop. Sheez. If you are going to rap, you have to be able to discern and make use of the rhythm. That said, I am glad he is out of the Sea Org.

    • Juicer77

      Better that than the toothbrush toilet routine! Keep moving away from the Co$, kid!

    • ze moo

      Can white men sing the blues?

    • Frodis73

      I haven’t even watched it yet and I’m embarrassed for him.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Obviously not a scientology audience otherwise they would have overboarded him. Not that they don’t all look like they want to. Does Arthur not have any real friends that will tell him? Arthur, if this is truly your passion and not your parent’s projecting crap on you, then your family can afford top notch coaching and training. However, I can tell you that unless you get that debilitating Hubbard comm course and TR’s and tone scale crap embedded in your brain removed, you will continue to be smothered under it’s heavy curtains.

      I doubt you’ll see this, but if you have any real friends who might read this, I hope they will secretly get the message to you. I hope you find success in whatever you really want to do. You can’t buy that kind of joy and peace. Good luck.

    • Draco

      No. Just … no.

    • Frodis73

      Oh boy…he’s not in the SO, so that’s a good thing. He doesn’t seem to be all that into it, though he gets points for getting up in front of people. Hope somebody can reach out and pass THDNE’s advice along to him.

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      Chill A.E.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Chill A&E

    • OceanMomma

      Oh yes the gangsta whose “favorite drink is black tea with honey and a little milk”. Or how about this memorable line, “if you’re feeling down you can feel me up”? I really don’t like to knock anyone who has the *alls to get up in front of a crowd but oh my he’s just awful.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        If the CO$ numbers keep dropping, “If you’re feeling down you can feel me up” will be the body routers new opening line. It’s certainly better than “Would you like to take a Stress Test?”, AMIRITE? LOL

        • OceanMomma

          Oh man my mind didn’t even go there. Love it!

  • who knew the Hulk lived in Clearwater? …. wonder if this thought occurred to tiny fists”

    pic

    • MarcabExpat

      Yeah, he’s a Tampa native actually. We can’t seem to get him out of the Bay area altogether.

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      They had him at a few of the Scientology Winter Wonderland launches in Clearwater. Not for a long time thought I don’t think.

      • I think the WWE should develop a new wrestling baddy and call him “Xenu”…. his ‘shtick’ could be he carries a sofa into the ring and jumps up on down on it before launching into his signature move “The Flying Thetan Suplex Slam” …. wonder if the church would dare sue?

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          I like it. Similar to the Hogan Leg Drop.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        I doubt he has anything to do with them now, but hey, I could be wrong.

    • Draco

      That’s quite a nifty little retirement fund.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      I’m surprised you didn’t know that. He’s been in the papers a lot in many years here. He has a store on the beach where one can buy all sorts of memorabilia, with a big statue out front.

      He was in court Thursday while I was on a nice dolphin cruise with a friend, best display of dolphin ever!.

      • I knew he lived in Florida but it never occurred to me that a … er…’genuine’ celeb would choose to live in Clearwater

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          For long time now. His son had an accident with lots of press also his divorce which I believe his wife got the house.

          • yeah, I remember – it was a big deal here in the UK… the poor kids caved in face was horrifying… but it was always reported as Florida if I remember

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              I see! It was on the main drag in CW a mile or so before the beach or just before the Flag building.

        • anonsparrow

          Please don’t degrade the word ‘genuine’ like that. 😉

    • This clown was allowed to wear his costume in court.
      What the fuck? Who the hell else is allowed to wear a rag on their head in a courtroom?
      Who the fuck was the judge?
      Set up job. An outrage.

  • Draco

    “Another IRS agent was served when Young pretended to be an Allstate claims adjuster investigating a car accident down the block. “You should have seen the look on his face when he realized I’d deceived him to get him to lower his defenses,” Young says.”
    This statement reminds me of Marty telling his story of how he caught Annie Broeker at the airport when she was on the run, trying to get to her husband.
    They both seemed a bit too pleased with their cleverness, even all these years later and knowing what they now know.
    A bit of remorse is in order I think.

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      It does sound like bragging, but knowing how they think, he will be sorry for that in time.

      • Draco

        Hopefully.

  • nottrue

    Know wonder the mission was so full. They were serving Michelob

    • Juicer77

      Lol

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Also touching, and I don’t mean assists.

      http://i.imgur.com/e6JITY1.jpg?3

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Party time?

    • grundoon

      Book and Bottle goes better when you start with a full bottle. Weight goes down, temperature goes up. With Micks, you can do Op Pro by Twist. It’s an Objective Process – your objective is to finish the 6-pack. Fast flow students can combine it with Touch That Wall. Raises your confront of MEST: specifically, the floor.

  • Antonia Willis

    OK, apologies in advance for me asking questions that don’t relate directly to today’s excellent post, but can I ask anyway? First, as a never-in, I think I’ve noticed some odd Co$ tricks of speech beyond the usual jargon/acronyms; one, that seems to manifest itself in interviews with ex-scientologists, is to preface the answer to a question with the phrase, “Now here’s the thing…”. Is this some kind of control mechanism, or just a jolly Americanism that my British ears are misinterpreting?

    The second qu I have relates to the current Co$ reaction to the wonderful wave of publicity for Ron Miscavige’s forthcoming book. It also relates to their reaction to ANY news story. Obviously, some poor sod trawls the readers’ comments and does some Co$ trolling to divert or hijack the anti-Co$ theme. Typically, it seems to involve pointing out that all religions are equally absurd; how can we criticize the Xenu notion when we’ve got our own establishment sky fairies to worry about? This always seems to work with at least a smattering of readers. But the other tactic that I thought I noticed in the comments section on the USA Today site was an unusual smattering of spam comments – work at home for $X, etc., type of spam. Is this a new tactic or have I just spent too much time online? And does any study of scientology make one paranoid?

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      Imo. “now here’s the thing” is common. in the US.
      Sites like US Today and others will have trolling a lot. Most know they don’t get far here, so I wouldn’t worry about it!
      Paranoid, possible, but one becomes aware of the tactics and keeps a step ahead. There are many scams in the world, so one should always be on guard and when learning about the scios, they are a step ahead.

      • Antonia Willis

        Thank you Dee.

    • After a while reading online comments in various places, you will become a Grand Master of the game, ‘spot the disingenouous Scientologist’. I think many of their tactics are passed down from on high, which is why they are so easily identifiable.

      For example,in Amazon reviews it seems to be compulsory for Scientologists to begin ‘I’m not a Scientologist, but…’

      Another common tactic is to distract readers from the point and divert the conversation – hence the ‘all religions are the same’ line that turns up again and again. You don’t want people talking about Miscavige the elder’s book – so you say something provocative and hope they will argue about that, instead.

      I think the ‘work from home’ rubbish is just a sign of a site with very poor anti-spam provision.

      • ze moo

        All well programed clams have the ‘disingenuous’ button on when requires. I.e., when talking to each other or us wogs.

    • Dice

      “work at home” is just normal spam.
      It’s easy to spot scios since they are drilled or repeating the same rhetoric that was provided by LRH.
      ex-scientologist refrain from using any scio-speak, unless they are joking
      If you meet one, you get those staring Bug-Eyes.
      This tube vid is a collection of what they say when they talk.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNFMnieVEk4

      • Antonia Willis

        Oh wow!! That was hysterical! And useful! Just watched it twice, will doubtless watch it again.

        • BosonStark

          I think “Now here’s the thing,” is something Tommy “Xenu” Davis used to say. It’s probably Valley Girl-ish. I wouldn’t be surprised if Scientologists use it because they think it makes their lies sound like they’re being open and honest.

    • Franklin Adams

      First, Now here’s the thing is an Americanism, not sure from where but its probably regional. Sounds Northern Californian to me as opposed to Southern, but I do not know for certain.

      Second, the spam is just spam. You or I could whip up a script to do that in about five minutes. Its really easy. But that reframing bullshit you’re seeing come out of actual people is a play straight from the wumao dang (Five Mao [Fifty Cent] Army) school of derailing conversation that involves any criticism of the Chinese state or the Chinese Communist Party. The Scientologists may be trying to use Wumao tactics, which is hilarious if its true because the Wumao suck at psychological warfare, they aren’t good liars plus they’re so limited in their understanding of anything western that calling them out is child’s play, Scientologists (especially the SO) are so limited in their understanding of the “wog world” that figuring them out is just as easy. And they have a tell, they will never, ever admit to living in China. Scientologists have one as well which Once_Born pointed out, they’re never, ever Scientologists. There are really a ton of parallels.

      Y’know, if I was gonna go for a program like that, I’d at least outsource it to actual wogs. Idiots.

      • salin

        The phrase sounds like 80s-90s SNL (Saturday Night Live) dialogue. That would make me think north east US?

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    It looks like Sid’s daughter is pictured here.

    Facebook Caption – “Eugenio Derbes gets his star on the Walk of Fame. Eugenio Derbez at Author Services to celebrate his star on the Walk of Fame.” #HollywoodWalkofFame #LRonHubbardTheatre — with Eugenio Derbez.

    https://www.facebook.com/AuthorServicesInc/videos/vb.1422714837952141/1752605331629755/?type=2&theater

    • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

      I won’t view it to give them stats in views. That’s just me. Altho thanks.

      • Todd Tomorrow

        I think like that too.

      • Antonia Willis

        Lord, this is so sad.

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      Yes, that’s her. To her right is John Goodwin, President of Galaxy Press. They apparently got married last year. I say apparently because they never told us. I just heard through the grapevine. Yes, Davieboy you has leaks.

      • Dice

        What is her name again?

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          Emily.

          • Dice

            Just been reading up on this John Goodwin. Emily is in the sea-org, but is he? To me they both look high profile and status, so did she jump some ranks by marrying this guy?

          • Chee Chalker

            She’s a beautiful girl
            He’s no Spencer but let’s hope they get out together!

      • Frodis73

        And ha, ha to Daveyboy and all his leaks.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        • Baby

          this is cool Hole. I’ve only watched it for 10 minutes..I am very easy to entertain..hahaha

      • Observer

        I’ll say!

        refresh

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          Oops.

      • Baby

        beautiful Sid.. Your pain takes my breath away honey.. damn it.

  • Observer

    So OT it’s not funny, but… just watch it. I won’t spoil it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Yf_ErkN_s

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      I saw this before. It’s great!

      • Observer

        What a voice!

    • Frodis73

      She’s awesome!
      eta-what a great way to show off her range both vocally and stylistically.

    • seriouslyWTF

      Amazing. On a different ‘note’, Have you heard the Reggae version of Addel’s Hello? Refresh
      http://youtu.be/OmnDEUD9NyI

      • aegerprimo

        Awesome! ♥

      • Baby

        F*ckin amazing.. wow.

        • seriouslyWTF

          IKR? I love this version and I love that they are so natural. No make-up or glitzy clothes. She is adorable and the brother has a sexy smile.

          • Baby

            I love it.. Of course I love Reggae.. xo

    • Frodis73

      I wish I could understand more than a few words of Spanish here and there.

  • Liberated

    Indiana just beat Kentucky–great game!!!!

    • salin

      Not just a win, a win over Kentucky! I am sure the bars downtown are still going wild.

  • Antonia Willis

    Brainwashing: of course, many volumes have been written about it, & everyone on this site knows a great deal more than most. I just wanted to put in my tuppence-worth on how I came to this site; won’t bore you except to say that a dear family member got swept up in a similar cult aged 17, and it took 2 years and a lot of damage to get him back. While it was going on I was reading a great Victorian novel, Kenilworth, by Sir Walter Scott. It is set in the time of Queen Elizabeth I & is about the murder of Amy Robsart, lured to her death by a man pretending to be her husband. There is a sentence in it that hit me like a sledgehammer: “You will be judged for this – you have killed her by means of her best affections”.

    It struck me that that’s exactly what these cult leaders like Hubbard & Miscavige do – they trap and then destroy people “by means of their best affections”. They manipulate and abuse the best in people, which is one reason why it is the kindest and best who get caught up in these terrible scams.

    Sorry if this is again a bit off-topic or emotional, just saying.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      You might want to check out books and informational resources listed here on Steven Hassan’s site. It’s been helpful to many and in many ways.

      https://freedomofmind.com//

    • Dice

      Some is speculating in this as a setup to catch the best and most able to become future leaders, just to chop them down in the process. $cientology is using rhetorics like “making the able more able” etc.

  • seriouslyWTF
  • LittleRedSongbird

    I’ve always admired the forgiveness and compassion exmembers of Scientology have shown to each other. Very beautiful and admirable.

    • Baby

      Songbird.. I found a lovely Red Songbird if you would like it for your Avi..I sized it for you.. If not it would not hurt my feelings or anything..

      • LittleRedSongbird

        Oh, Baby I wish I had seen this earlier! It made my day!

  • Kestrel

    According to L Ron Hubbard, suppressive persons make up only 2.5% of the population. Yet, here is an OT5 declared suppressive after years of study in Hubbard’s tech. How is this even possible if the tech works? How is it possible that Debbie Cook, or Marty Rathbun, or Mike Rinder, or any OTs could become an SP after years of tech and admin if either worked? Shouldn’t scientology training reduce the percentage of SPs?

    • anonsparrow

      These are some of the many questions/contradictions that should snap some of them out of their belief systems – but doesn’t. Scientology is some powerful shit evidently. Don’t get it in your mouth.

    • The list is much longer.

  • nottrue

    • Observer

      I just can’t even with him

    • Wasn’t that Garry Scarff page done when they had no idea who the people in Going Clear docu were, guessed, and slapped up a bunch of stuff borrowed from their RFW smear site?

      I don’t recall him in the documentary, and he’s only cited twice in the footnotes of the book.

      • Frodis73

        Yes, that is they way I remember it too.

  • flyonthewall

    Just wanted to throw this out there before I go and binge watch the new DareDevil series but didn’t Vannier also choose to finally speak out bc he was disconnected from his daughter? Two ex-GO guys both decide to spill the beans after being effected by disconnection. Kinda weird. Just sayin, another example of the cult making enemies out of people for totally preventable reasons. Boggles the mind

    • aegerprimo

      Yep! My mind is boggled.

      • flyonthewall

        idk where the saying about insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results came from but CoS just seems to embody that saying.

        • aegerprimo

          That is an Einstein quote.

        • Robert Eckert

          The source is Jane Forman, a writer in The Grapevine, inhouse magazine of Alcoholics Anonymous in the 1940’s. “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results” was talking specifically about compulsive drinking behavior although of course it has wider applications. Within AA it is usually attributed mistakenly to Bill Wilson, the founder, but outside AA where Bill W is not so widely known it generally gets attributed to Albert Einstein.

          • flyonthewall

            cool, thanx. I was kinda thinking it was Einstein 🙂

    • Frodis73

      Enjoy DD, I’m getting ready to start ep 3.

    • pat k

      Daredevil is a grand watch! Mind still boggled too.

  • aegerprimo

    Skip Young should write a book.

    • anonsparrow

      I’ll buy it right now.

      • aegerprimo

        Me too!

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      Scientology:

      The Spy Who Came in from the Kool.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Lord Hubris loved his GO spies
    DM prefers now private eyes
    While paying old thugs
    To lie like rugs
    If any speak, surprise, surprise

    There once was a journalist
    Who wrote on the Crimson Cyst
    Every day, on his blog,
    New vile deeds of that dog
    While DM got more and more pissed

    Because of rejection and disconnection
    Now, finally, there’s some introspection
    A change of heart,
    Hope to restart,
    Still in need of some truth injection

    • anonsparrow

      Very nice PA!

    • aegerprimo

      Crimson Cyst
      ROFLMAO!

      • Rasha

        Definitely needs a shoop….. Sounds like an olde tyme highwayman….

  • Observer
    • anonsparrow

      I wish I could go back in time and prevent Kirstie Alley and Miley Cyrus (from)

      • anonsparrow

        Alright. Hot Tub Time Machine reference that nobody got therefore makes me seem creepy.

        That’s cool. It’s not about me anyway.

        Game on..

      • daisy

        Wrong post-see above

    • daisy

      Miley Cyrus is harmless, Kirstie Alley abuses animals and the English language

      • Missionary Kid

        And, she abuses people. Ask Derek Bloch, he’ll tell you about how she and $cientology screwed over his family.

    • Baby

      STFU Alley

  • salin

    Reminder to Click the Recommend (just under the comment count) – to ‘upvote’ today’s Story. Complicated, complex, and made into a coherent story by Tony.

    A single Aurora Shot – that, imo, is worthy of hanging on a wall. From earlier today in Glacier National Park in Montana. http://spaceweathergallery.com/indiv_upload.php?upload_id=123737&PHPSESSID=ca9o3kr7l1bi4m7n8ihcrqr702

  • Observer

    And in case you’ve been wondering what John Mappin is talking about lately (the last comment is priceless!)

    F5

    • salin

      Taking a deep breath before refreshing. Will I laugh or will my eyes want to roll right out of my head?

      • Observer

        Both!

        • salin

          You are correct – that was my response. Love that last comment.

    • aegerprimo

      Wait WAT?

    • It’s terrible when Anonymous, on the orders of rich people, starts attacking helpless, downtrodden poor people like… Trump? Wait a minute… i thought he was quite well off…

      Mappin doesn’t think anything through, does he? This seems to be a consequence of only communicating with people who will tell you are clever as long as you do the same for them. You just don’t have to think anymore (if you ever did).

    • Frodis73

      Thank you for keeping tabs on Mappin. I find him entertaining, but creepy at the same time. Always good for a laugh though.

      • Observer

        He’s a train wreck.

    • Rasha

      …evidently, he has nothing of his own to say. And is that David Letterman?

      • Observer

        David Letterman has better hair.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Bwahahahahaha! Thanks, Obs. Needed that. That’s a fairly priceless comment, altho I’m torn between that and the ditz above it from Maria, “They are shiting their pants”. I gotta save that one for Lucille if I ever see her around these parts.

      • Observer

        I laughed at that one too–“shiting on their pants.” What, they took their pants off, put them on the floor, and are “shiting” on them?

        • Frodis73

          What a waste of time huh?

    • “Richest people in this planet (Soros et al)”
      So 1993

      • Rasha

        That damned Carnegie and his ilk!!!

        • I hope Reagan wins this election.

          • Rasha

            I dunno… I like Ike…

            • They both in this planet.

            • Rasha

              Well in. ‘Tis true. I checked into myself.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Never thought I’d upvote a comment like that!

        • Not long ago the kind of conspiracy theory expressed by Mappin above would have included the phrase, “international Jewish bankers”. The rubbish he writes is so inept that it is funny… but there’s a nasty self-serving bigotry just under the surface, waiting for an opportunity to rise up.

          He’s funny,, but he’s creepy too.

          • Rasha

            *nods*

          • salin

            Agreed on both counts.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist
        • All of the rich people who are plotting to take over the world have a secret underground base… haven’t you seen a single one of those James Bond documentary films?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Not a Bond fan, but I was a vintage sci fi fan. Scared the crap out of me as a kid. Now, they’re comedy compared to slash ’em and mash ’em film noir.

            • You should’nt underestimate the power of what your own imagination brought those old stories.

              When I was about 12, I came upon my Dad, reading “The Island of Dr Moreau” by HG Wells. He put it away in a drawer, and told me I was not to look at it. Of course, I sneaked back at the first opportunity and read it from the beginning.

              I was never so scared to begin a new chapter ever again in my life. Compared to that scary, deep and profoundly pessimistic book, the most graphic film is just boring.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Oh that one made me realize the world might not be as nice as the Beav’s house. You speak soothe.

            • I still remember the narrator, having returned to ‘civilisation’, afraid that those around him would start to show ‘”[…] first this bestial mark, then that.”

          • BraveBloggers

            An underground lair!

        • aegerprimo
          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            There was a lot of people freaking out about radiation and nuclear fallout back then. Giant birds, giant wimmen, giant tomatoes. heh

            • aegerprimo

              OH…. more like this….

              https://youtu.be/qaZ6ftQYVlg

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Holy cow that’s awful!
              hah

            • aegerprimo

              Cult following…(of stupid sci-fi)

            • Rasha

              I miss the original Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. But yeah. Radiation. Peter Graves Beginning of the End-style.

            • Didn’t Ron himself demonstrate that tomatoes feel pain? I for one welcome our new vegetable overlords.

            • aegerprimo
            • Sid (Phil Jones)

              Eventually he developed it into the Tomato Sec-Check. (F5)

            • Rasha

              I’m afraid I can only upvote this once. Very laugh!!!!!

            • Juicer77

              LOL

            • Rasha

              He just had to stick that nail there.

            • Baby

              You owe me 2 Minutes and 19 seconds of my life back aeger..

            • aegerprimo

              No…. because I know you laughed your brains out for the full 2 minutes and 19 seconds. ☺

    • Antonia Willis

      OK, time to make a few comments on John Mappin, whose presence in my own small patch of the UK is the main reason I found your site. Having come across cult spokesmen before, I was aghast to find one of them lurking in my patch – and talking all sorts of bullshit as he landed.

      Now, bear with me please dear Bunkers, because this is going to be a long post (but my one & only such).

      About 15 years ago, an unknown businessman landed in North Cornwall and made an offer for an extremely run-down Victorian hotel:

      https://googlejohnmappin.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/camelot-castle-hotel-the-dream/

      which was called the King Arthur Hotel.

      We locals were amazed for a number of reasons. First, the hotel was a broken economic model: it was built by the Cornish architect Sylvanus Trevail at the height of the late Victorian / early Edwardian railway boom, to accommodate railway passengers who wished to enjoy the “healthy air” of north Cornwall’s cliffs whilst seeing the archaeological remains of Tintagel Castle, a nearby mediaeval cliff-top site. Unfortunately, the railway branch line to Tintagel was abolished a long time before I was born, and afterwards the hotel failed to attract guests. To repeat: the thing that Mappin & Stourton bought was a late Victorian railway-era purpose-built hotel, NOT a private house, NOT a castle, NOT a mansion. It was considered by locals even in my childhood to be a bloody awful eyesore, but a remarkable bit of hotel construction given the right economic climate. The right economic climate never came.

      The hotel’s architect Sylvanus Trevail, after a number of local commissions, including some schools and the county lunatic asylum, shot himself. My grandmother said it was no wonder – his buildings were enough to depress even the most casual of visitors, let alone their creator. Anyway, the hotel sort-of staggered along in the 1960s, 70s & 80s, paying for itself with low-end coach trips and some lunches and dinners, and the hideous, pebble-dashed facade became a familiar feature to many a Cornish person (such as myself) growing up. We didn’t say, “What is that amazing castle?” – we said, “What is that awful clifftop eyesore which detracts from the ruins of Tintagel?”. Or words to that effect.

      Anyway, the architect Trevail built another huge clifftop hotel in Cornwall, in Newquay: The Headland Hotel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headland_Hotel This was even larger and perhaps uglier than the King Arthur Hotel, but it became extremely successful, because it was brilliantly run as a hotel, not as a fantasy mansion, and its guests were pampered and cosseted and actually the design was fine if you’re trying to create a huge, well-maintained public edifice which will stand up to Atlantic gales. And the railway line to Newquay stayed open.

      So, when Mappin appeared in Cornwall in about 2000 buying the King Arthur Hotel at a knock-down price (it needed massive restoration and maintenance and didn’t have an established clientele), the local expectation was that he had cash to pump into it, to revive it as a hotel, employ heaps of locals and turn it into something resembling its sister site in Newquay. Obviously, none of this happened. What DID happen was that Mappin got caught up in a complicated fraud trial in London (Benjie Pell the bin man, I’m sure we all know about that). He did manage to rename the old King Arthur Hotel as the Camelot Castle Hotel, and to create some fictions about its genesis.

      So, to Mike Rinder’s comments: there is a relevance here that non-Brits might not necessarily grasp. Here, I’m going to go all psychological. Mike R awarded Mappin his “upper class twit of the year” award. Understandable, but not so: I would hazard a guess that Mappin’s problems stem from the fact that he’s always been desperate to be a member of the (old-style) British “upper class”, but this has never been possible. In a way, it’s not Mappin’s fault. To explain:

      John Mappin was sent to Winchester, which is one of England’s best public (which here means private) schools, both academically and socially. Academically, he was never going to make the top cut. But socially, he also had a problem. In the ghastly old-fashioned system that still held a grip on some public schools even in the 1970s & ’80s, people who came from “trade” backgrounds were middle class – albeit upper-middle, if you were a Mappin – but could never be “upper” class, as this slot was reserved for those whose background was in landed estates. A country house was part of the picture, of course. Mappin’s background was one of service to the landed classes – his family produced their engraved silver, their wedding presents with engraved crests, their little enamel boxes bought for treats. It was indeed a background of great technical and artistic achievement, but not one of social dominance. My guess was that Mappin was the sort of boy who would have been teased and bullied about this at Winchester. And in later life, if he didn’t have a family country house to fall back on, he’d find one for himself – only in this case he invented one, out of a failed clifftop hotel.

      Meanwhile, the old-fashioned British class system means nothing to those of us who mix and make a living here in the westernmost parts of the UK. But for people who are aware of the old system – like Mappin – there are wounds. At the root of the whole Mappin / Stourton “Camelot Castle” nonsense is, I suspect, a bullied small boy at Winchester who was desperate to belong. It’s just a shame that the consequences have been so deleterious to the local economy and, doubtless, to his own development.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        “At the root of the whole Mappin / Stourton “Camelot Castle” nonsense
        is, I suspect, a bullied small boy at Winchester who was desperate to
        belong.”

        Thank you for the background and insight. It just sounds right.

      • daisy

        Very interesting . I now know the subject I will continue to make fun of til he gets out.

      • Observer

        That is fascinating. Thanks for posting it!

        • Antonia Willis

          any day.

      • one of my favourite class distinction quotes which I’ll apply here is

        “John Mappin?, he’s one of those people who has to buy his own furniture”

        as a product of the English boarding school system I have to concur with a lot you have to say… anyway, here’s one of my posts that has a lot of Mappin lulz

        https://www.scientologybollocks.com/trumps-supporters-compared-scientologists-mappins-clam-camelot-castle-pretty-nasty-people-actually/

        • Antonia Willis

          Exactly. And to be mean, he’s got no f***ing eye for furniture either.

      • Please don’t make this your one and only long post. You made a lot of sense in this one.

        • Antonia Willis

          you are kind! x

          • Skabetti

            Great story AND you live near Tintagel. I’m jealous. I just live by the Mississippi River.

          • Baby

            Welcome Antonia.. *** Now it’s confirmed..You are a Bunkeroo..”

        • seconded

      • salin

        The antics at the Camelot Castle Hotel, are at time so strange – often but not always tied to Scientology – that reports (esp first hand reports) are a source of both amusement and something akin to but maybe not as strong as horror. Like Observer, I thank you for the background/context and local perspective.

        Glad that these discussions caught your attention and brought you to the Bunker. Your voice is appreciated.

        • Frodis73

          It would make a great movie.

      • Frodis73

        This is a great piece of the puzzle! I have to admit that I’m delighted to hear about this piece too…poor little Johnny…he just wants to be accepted by those folks, but it’s not going to happen, so he tries to buy his way in and that just doesn’t work either. So sad that he’s playing these games as an adult…in 2016 no less.

        • Antonia Willis

          I’m going to add an even-worse detail, then close down for bed. Here in Cornwall, we country-house owners (I’m one of them) talk to each other all the time, largely about how the hell we can keep working & going & creating stuff that other people want to pay to experience. We have a serious work ethic – anyway! Drinks at my house last month, someone says, “have you heard this Mappin chap has offered a knighthood to Donald Trump?” (everyone in hearing falls about laughing): but the man says, “no, some journalists actually think this is real! They think we in Cornwall are mad enough to give knighthoods away!!”

          Me: “Well, can’t someone talk to him?” (blank stares everywhere): “haven’t ANY of us met someone who knows him?” (more blank stares). This is a guy whom no-one in the local economy has ever met; which, in an isolated agricultural area, says a lot.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            and then ….

          • Baby

            Wow! That says a lot..Antonia.. I’m sorry I laughed too.. hahhaha

          • Frodis73

            This is another great tidbit. I have often wondered what the local business people thought of him. If you read his PR he makes himself to be the toast of the town. The fact that nobody has even met the jerk speaks volumes.

          • Missionary Kid

            That’s $cientology for you: pissing off both the locals and clients wherever they alight.

            I know you’re probably asleep, but I don’t think poorly of Cornwall because of Mappin. He’s simply a festering boil that’s outside of the local community. There seems to be at least one in many places.

            Thank you for posting.

      • Ella Raitch

        Fabulous post. John Mappin is always on topic and a long post like this just means that I get the popcorn ready fist. Please do keep us apprised of any more local info

      • Baby

        Antonia.. You have excellent writing skills and skillfully craft a fascinating historical story. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you very much to take the time to fill us in.

        I am reading..” Rose ” My Life in Service to Lady Astor by Rosina Harrison. I am very interested in
        ” Upstairs Downstairs ” relationships.. So I was absolutely riveted by your account. Thank you.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        He definitely does not have Edward Richard Plantagenet Corbally Stourton’s heritage!
        (We call him Ted with the Lightbox)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Stourton
        http://www.thepeerage.com/p6131.htm#i61303

        • Antonia Willis

          You’re dead right: the tragically fucked Ted Stourton career is precisely what created the mismatch that followed. Ted’s background, unlike Mappin’s is “echt” upper class but his behaviour wasn’t taking him where he ought perhaps to belong. And he gave a sliver of upper-class legitimacy to Mappin. This is, of course, nothing other than speculation.

      • aquaclara

        Whooooeee. Welcome to the Bunker. So you’ve resisted the Lightbox tour? Good for you! It’s great to hear from someone who lives with this in their own neighborhood. And these are terrific posts, so please stick around….It has to be tough to hear the comments from unsuspecting guests who come to town, finding themselves stuck in a Stourton-Mappin-filled nightmare of a holiday.

        • Antonia Willis

          ooh, I DID do the lightbox tour…lots of us here in Cornwall make our house guests do it on a wet weekend because it is SO funny and SO crazy, especialy when the pheasant shooting season is over and there’s nothing else to do. Btw last time I did it, an author friend of mine brought a darling American along who was a genuine Hollywood film producer, and she nearly fainted laughing. Except for the moment when Ted Stourton sang something by Art Garfunkel in the basement, and we were so embarrassed we couldn’t look at each other.

      • gtsix

        Absolutely lovely. Thanks and welcome.

      • Missionary Kid

        I would have thought that $cientology would have helped Mappin with his feelings of inferiority. [End of sarcasm.]

      • Juicer77

        Great post, Antonia. Welcome! I’m guessing you’re not a fan of the new Merlin face, then? 😉 The ruins at Tintagel are lovely and atmospheric. The magic of wandering around there is mulling over the history vs. the myth. That face is totally Disneyfied. I’m sorry you’re stuck with Mr. Mappin!

  • Ella Raitch

    It’s all been said so just adding my thanks Tony. What a rip-roaring read. This is WHY ( read the Bunker)… and credibly written stories like this were how I came to realize that the protests against Scientology were legitimate and not the disaffected grumbling of bitter apostates. (and also why at a concert last night, with dwindling power, I had to check in on the new story before squeezing down to the barrier to watch the Violent Femmes

    • Frodis73

      You saw the Femmes last night? How were they? Did they play old stuff or new religious stuff?

      • Ella Raitch

        They kicked off with Blister in the Sun and ended up with Add It Up. After, all these years it was the first time I’d actually seen them live. My teenager was completely taken away by the acoustic bass. It was a hoot being there with the kids. Also played Gone daddy gone, mother Reagan, country death song, gimme the car…..

        • Frodis73

          Oh wow! Very cool!! I saw them once and it wasn’t all that great and they only played maybe 2-3 songs that the crowd wanted to hear. i had heard that they were back to embracing their past instead of playing the religious stuff, but that was a few years ago, so I wasn’t sure. Also cool that you got to go with your kids!

        • sashiebgood

          Oh man ,Gimme the Car was one of my faves! It really is the 90`s all over again!

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    What an article today Tony! The article and all the comments have priceless information. Thanks so much for getting so many, including myself, to speak out. Now dinner must be had and so I leave for awhile. This has been quite a day.. cheers!

    • Enjoy, Sis.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Thanks Bro. Gotta take of self.

    • aegerprimo

      Yes Dee! It is quite a day.

  • Soros and richest people in this plkanet – STUP sponsoring Anonymouses!!!

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    I just found comments from Skip on my Disqus account. I have not seen them here. Mysterious, oh well! At least I got to answer him.

    • Hopefully we will see more of his replies.

      • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

        Go to his avatar under my comments and you may be surprised. I was!

        • Your account is private. Only you can see that.

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            Oh have to fix that. I went public long ago. An error with my disqus making a mess for me. I did see his tho.

          • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

            Hopefully fixed, not private. Hope I’ve not lost all my old stuff, oh well! Will try another time to get my other pic back.

            It may take a day or so?

            • You fixed it.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Yippee! (for now)

            • Skip made 13 replies so far.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I read them too. Unfreakinbelievable. That’s all I need to see.

            • He is replying to us. Brb.

            • salin

              Thanks Dee. Even though one of his responses was to one of my posts, I missed it.

              Side note – just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your caring intent/compassion, your wisdom, and your willingness to share your journey. Am glad that we virtually cross paths here at the Bunker.

            • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

              Well, thank you Salin. I appreciate you too.

            • Baby

              Ohh I love this picture..keep it.. I can see more of your face..

    • Frodis73

      Thanks for sharing that so we could all see. It was interesting to read his replies.

  • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

    I think Disqus is overloaded! Poor thing! It’s acting strangely on my iMac. Off to late dinner .
    Love you all!

    • Baby

      OMG.. Reverend Mama.. I LOVE YOUR PICTURE.. You look beautiful.. xo baby

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist
  • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

    O/T: Ross from–Oh No, Ross and Carrie–is at one of the Hubbard birthday celebrations. I can’t wait to hear this episode!
    https://www.facebook.com/ONRAC/photos/a.167355810007438.40146.105045406238479/991616427581368/?type=3&theater

    • Rasha

      That should be a blast! BTW, who came up with that awful attempt at an initials logo, anyway? A hash mark for a hack writer. Anyone know the background to that?

      • MaxSpaceman

        #ThereIsNooneTooHackneyedWhoDontDeserveAhashtag#

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        It looks like pi mated with the infinity symbol and tried to pass as a pound sign. Or something, I don’t know what’s going on there.

      • Robert Eckert

        “who came up with that awful attempt at an initials logo, anyway?” LRH himself.

        • Rasha

          Natch. I have little doubt that he was attempting to mimic Tolkien’s awesome glyph, and in spectacular Fail Tech, came up with this.

          An analogy….

    • Juicer77

      I am AMAZED that he’s still getting into these functions!

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        I just hope we get a play-by-play bonus episode. Carrie’s tales from the NYE event were priceless.

  • small selection of OT pics for late night amuse-bouche nomming

  • Sigh. Okay than. Time.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Nite, Dodo.

    • aquaclara

      Dodo, can you translate this? Does it mean he never told his kids that Scientology was bad?

      • Skip is still deep in. They should totally undeclare him. He is on this blog on accident.
        I am not joking.

        • Baby

          Dodo.. I had to walk away from it today..when I woke up..I couldn’t come back in.. Just because I feel the same way that you do.. I just do… and you have so much empathy for people ..and I know I do too..

          That is what is so unsettling to me.

        • Joy Lover (Ex-CS)

          Wow… :/

        • salin

          I agree. And think his coming out here with his story is damaging to his intent.

          From his state of mind – especially in regards of his blind spot towards his employer and his employment and the disconnect between what they do to “criminals” at the bequest of CoS vs. his now treatment/abuse at the hands of Co$

          That is all predictably going to blow up for him. Co$ is either a big client of the agency, or is back side of a front group in relation to the agency. Any tolerance for his discontent (which is palpably painful), will be immediately erased.

          But I don’t read that he is ready for this response, or even anticipates it. He still is loyal to his employer. He hasn’t internalized the impact of their operations on individuals – as how that effects their lives and their families nor made the parallel connection to how that relates to how his family has now been torn apart.

          I am both empathetic, but also – after more reading – agree that he is still mostly under the ‘enthrall’ of the Church. It could be accentuated because he was not only pulled into clandestine operations early on (like our dear Len), but then was involved in lower level clandestine operations for several more decades. To get out of the ‘enthrall’ means facing some pretty harsh self-assessments/responsibilities – and for him it is self and long time (and current?) employer.

          I wouldn’t have agreed the ‘by accident’ assessment early this morning, but now I agree.

          So very sad. Wish he could ‘hear’ THDNE’s message to him in a more deep way. But at this time – seems to be impossible. Feel his pain. But also feel his indifference to the pain that he and his employer have wreaked on others.

          By the end of the day, my empathy feels over-stressed.

    • noseinabk

      Yes Dodo, time. Think how Bob was when he first posted here. We cringed and argued with him because we could see that glimmer of awakening. Time.

      • Let’s hope.

        • noseinabk

          Hope is my favorite word.

    • Supper Powers

      It’s difficult to read Skip use the LRH gibberish to still describe his experience. I hope he begins to unravel the horrible things LRH did. Nobody deserves to have their children ripped away and hopefully he will come to understand that disconnection is not an isolated component of an otherwise benevolent organization. Disconnection is just one example of the diseased machine Scientology has always been.

    • Cognitive dissonance. Hurts to live it. Hurts to watch it.

    • Hi Skip, welcome to the world of the internets and the Bunker, the domains of the truly free. A tip, every time you find yourself using Scientologese, find a wog word that means exactly the same. It can always be done. Do this and you will eventually be cured. Enturbulating is not a real word, my friend.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Len Zinberg. 14 hours ago. Re-comment. The names of those who know must be repeated. And repeated.

    “Whenever I think of those Scientologists I knew who still remain silent; people like Jerry Hines, Kathy and Andy Savas, Charlie Batdorf, Jimmy and Jeff Marino, and George Pilat, all in their late 60’s or ’70’s today…I wish they’d come forward and tell what they did…”

    • They are afraid.

      • MaxSpaceman

        It’s a realistic and very good reason to desist.

        • Yes, Anonymous helped to removed the fear for me back in 2008. If we can remove the fear factor we will get a result.

  • Congrats Scientology (translation – Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige) on declaring someone an SP who did your dirty work and still a believer. You just reached a new level of stupid. Also, fuck you, Dave. Call your Dad.

    • Baby

      Yep.. and they wonder why their numbers are dwindling .. STUPID..STUPID STUPID..

    • Missionary Kid

      I think he’d only call his dad to threaten him.

  • Baby

    quick question.. what is an avatar size for disq? I can not find the info.. thanks..baby

    • 1000 cucumber pringles. Welcome.

      • Baby

        OH good thanks Do..

        ( Thanks for nuthin) ha Next?

    • Observer

      A guess: 100 x 100 pixels

      • Eivol Ekdal

        92×92

        • Baby

          grazie

      • Baby

        danke schön

    • Eivol Ekdal

      It should resize/crop anything you upload to 92×92.

  • This is why church should be separated from the government.

  • Skip, it must be hard to be a former cop, former spy, businessman, sea org member, former family man.
    I don’t know you, but may be you should take a break, reassess your values and stick with one thing.
    Take your time, we are here for you. I hope your daughters will leave the sea org and talk to you again.

  • There are many days here in the Bunker that stand out for me, but multiple threads here and especially the thread after Len’s comment will go to the top of my own personal Greatest Hits list. Sometimes you all just blow me away.

    • This Underground Bunker place is living and breathing.

    • salin

      I agree, Artoo. Very insightful discussions. Today I was stretched intellectually, emphatically – as in multiple directions per the complexity of the story and the ensuing discussions, and think I have personally grown a bit as a result of reading and participating.

  • madame duran

    But that’s not why he’s decided to come forward and speak publicly for the first time, more than 40 years after he first began his involvement in Scientology. Skip Young has learned that even someone who worked for decades as a Scientology spy could find his family ripped apart by the church’s toxic policy of “disconnection.”

    So for a period of FORTY YEARS, this guy was proud of the damage he was causing to other people lives (“for the greater good” by Scientology’s reasoning) but when his cult group turned on him and he faced losing his own daughters via disconnection, he suddenly develops enough moral outrage to go public. Is that a fair summation of this long blog entry?
    There’s a lesson there for ALL Scientologists. No amount of donations, certifications, statuses, or commendations will ever guarantee that you’d be absolved of your “crimes” or protected from Scientology attacks. Greater devotion does not promise any permanent reward. Your “eternal security” hinges on you remaining perpetually afraid, ignorant and uncritical of Scientology and/or its leader(s). If that’s the confined cage you want your soul to dwell in for the rest of your existence, there’s really nothing else I can say to you.

    • Frodis73

      Lol, I like your summation! I thought of Kim immediately as she’s fond of pointing out everything was all fine and great until they turned on me. How dare they?
      I hope the lurkers take your second paragraph to heart…truth all the way.

    • I agree :/

    • pluvo

      The threat of an EsPee-declare is present from day one. Latest when one reads the table of “errors, misdemeanors,crimes, high crimes and suppressive acts” * one should be aware what can happen when one steps out of line or voices any disgreements or criticizes management or Hubbard in any way or has connections the an ‘SP’, is reading or listening to ‘entheta’. To let anybody know about it, is called “spreading back PR”. The treat about “getting SP-declared” is used as blackmail”

      * https://jeta.home.xs4all.nl/scn/Scn-dem-200401/scn/hco/ethics-introduction.html#hig

  • Tony Ortega

    After a day when you all rocked this place with amazing comments since 7 am this morning, I’m humbled that I can write this sentence…

    John Sayles and I talked about Scientology tonight, and I gave him and Maggie Renzi a signed copy of my book. And we got to see our friend, Tom Tomorrow (Dan Perkins) put on an incredible show as he celebrated the publication of his 25-year retrospective double-volume delight.

    OK, this has been a good day.

    • Frodis73

      John Sayles as in *the* John Sayles, director/writer? Wow, I would have loved to have heard that conversation.

    • Baby

      Wow.. and swear to God I had Dinner with a Manhattan Judge who lives on the island at her dinner party..AND WE talked about Scientology and YOU all night..

      I am sure YOU were quite the hit Tony.. How fun.

      Wow.. I loved the comments also on the blog today.. and no one spilled blood on your carpet.. Good day

    • Juicer77

      I bet the house was packed. Hooray for Dan!

    • Ella Raitch

      I had to google/IMDB them but am certainly familiar with their work.

      Matewan….Passion Fish….whew

      And Piranha (I watched the 78 version a few weeks ago – awesome!)

      Hmmmm….pleasure? Or business?….hmmmmm……

  • Tony Ortega

    Paul Burkhart. The new management defector.

    Skip Young. The new spy defector.

    Might there be another coming?

    And another?

    And?

    So much to write. So much to do.

    • Can we have only one defector a week, please.

    • Panopea Abrupta

      Meanwhile, in moth-eaten otter coats, oat-eating ostentatious OTs uttered and offered utterly obfuscating inanities, insane infamous impotent inuring idiot Ron their incoherently infantile fallible inturbidating inglorious imam, interested only in ingots and incestuous incantations of incessant praise.

      “Can anyone explain what myths are?”
      “Yeth, Myth.
      Female moths are called myths.”
      A strolling drone gathers no myths.
      DM is a strolling drone.
      That’s why Shelly is a myth.

      Thank you for today.
      Awesome reporting.

    • Supper Powers

      Any chance for an IRS defctector???

      • MaxSpaceman

        no

        • Supper Powers

          Thank you for your expertise.

          • MaxSpaceman

            only deductive logic, Supper– no one from the IRS is going to spill.

            • Supper Powers

              Your inexperience is sticking out.

            • MaxSpaceman

              ok. Hope to hear you share your experience with IRS agents “telling” on cases like Scientology. Or maybe Scientology itself. Would love to be a part of your experience.

            • Supper Powers

              Well, you know nothing about me or who I know. Believe me, you’re not on my short list of sharing information and connections with. Plus, it’s not my story to tell which brings me back to this. I was ribbing Tony, not asking you for your insights.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Ok supper. Couldn’t care less what you have to say nor to whom. The only thing you’ve ever said here with any impact is you might have a recipe worth noting 🙂 Not.

            • Supper Powers

              Thank you for your kindness.

            • Supper Powers

              Thank you for your kindness..

            • MaxSpaceman

              always, for someone as nice as you are. goodbye.

    • salin

      Such a tease. You know how impatient we can be when you give us such interesting questions.

      • Frodis73

        IKR? He loves to tease…and drop bombs like hanging with John Sayles! I so hope we have another defector story coming.

        • salin

          We have just hopped in the old family station wagon. Only time before the echoes of “are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?” start singing.

    • noseinabk
      • salin

        perfect.

      • Baby

        hahahah this is making me dizzy.. but so beautiful… xo

      • Rasha

        …and the only word there blowing
        was the whispered word, “Lenore?”

        And a crowd of Oompa-Loompas
        murmured back the word the word, “Lenore”.

        Oompa-Loompas, nothing more.

        (….sorry!)

    • Susan black

      Bring it on!

    • something appropriate from my archives….

      • Baby

        hahahha I do NOT get this.. MY Gawwwd and I ditsy tonight or what..

        • to do it exceptionally well… in fact the wellness of the doing is so exceptional that it has to be controlled so as to not to explode beyond recognition and we all know ‘knobs’ control things… I do a thing so well that it is almost definitely needs a vessel to contain it … a vessel with knobs…

          [I could go on all night]

          • Baby

            Oh cool.. I thought it was a Sexual innuendo..( OOPs) Again..don’t ask.. You Knob you..

          • sizzle8

            Actually it’s “with brass knobs on” referring to decorative knobs (round balls) like the ones on a brass bed.

      • shasha40

        Perfect , Lush !!! hahaha 😀

    • TexasBroad

      Interesting times. From a place of admiration and respect Tony, I hope your future is exhausting.

      • MaxSpaceman

        fuuny, Texas 🙂

    • MaxSpaceman

      ~ Foreshadowing seraphs ~

    • OOkpik

      So wonderful of you to be doing it!
      Thank you.

    • Graham

      Tony- now you’re just teasing OSA. 🙂

      • Juicer77

        And it’s AWESOME!! XD

        • Graham

          Well you know OSA – they just LOVE being teased!

    • Ella Raitch

      He he he…

      One of my big takeaways from today’s piece (and I’m sure OSA’s as well) is that you had been talking to an as yet undeclared Snow White participant. That is, you are getting detailed stories from still-ins with lengty, grubby associations. Who? How many? What stories are stored up waiting for disaffected Scientologists just waiting for the “go” switch — “Fuck it Tony, time to go public”

      So sweet….

    • More defectors? Inconceivable!! Captain David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige can totally trust the officers who remain!!!

      Well. Most of them, anyway.

      PS: Tease us some more, you bad person you…

  • Baby

    Ok off to find a movie..before I leave..

    I tried to get all caught up..Impossible.. So can someone please tell me. I was so confused when I went to bed.

    What does Skip want? I know he wants to see his daughters. That is understood.

    He wants Status Quo.. “I’m writing up a petition, asking to overturn the comm ev findings and just return me back to status quo. My game plan is to give them a chance to right the wrong, and if they do it, I’ll be fine and probably never tell my story,”

    So.. I do know what status quo means.

    “DMA has always been good to me for 25 years,” he told us, and asked that we not paint the firm in a harsh light, despite its employment of former Guardian’s Office figures. He was especially glad for their connection to Scientology now, when he wanted to get a strong message to the church.”

    Does he want to work for DMA again? Does he want to volunteer for Scn. again? Be reinstated without A-E..?
    What does he want to return to..?

    I just couldn’t follow it.. Yes I understand decompression.. Does he want to decompress.. Will he do anything to get his daughters back?

    If he will do anything.. then maybe Miscavige would send him on another mission? Hell I don’t know..

    • Frodis73

      TBH Baby, I don’t know. I know he wants to talk to his daughters, but after reading some of his comments, he’s still drinking the kool aid in a lot of ways…and imo, is naive on far scientology will go. This caught my eye, he said in reply to Fly:

      They have to tread lightly with regard to enforcing church doctrine in a civilian workplace.

      I don’t think he’s read enough history of the church as we all know they have been sued around the world for doing just that such thing, and so much more.

      • Baby

        Thanks Doggie.. I have been trying to wrap my head around it all day..

      • Baby

        Girl I had to google TBH..hahaha

    • salin

      My impression, from his comments,1) is that he still works for DMA. 2) I don’t think he wants back in to Co$ – just to see his kids.

      And yes it is hard to follow – as I don’t know how sentence one (employment) is compatible with his going public with sentence two.

      Also there isn’t yet a sense of connection between the activities from GO through DMA in regards to the impact of their activities on the lives of other individuals and their families – beyond ‘that was the mindset (protecting the church) at the time – connected to the pain and disruption his own family is experiencing.

      I don’t think he would do another mission. His speaking out here – pretty much burned a whole lot of bridges. Yet – so many conflicts of interest place this situation in the category of “a big hot mess.” Which is so very sad for the daughters, others stuck on the inside, and all those now on the outside who have been subject to Fair Game activities at the hands of DMA.

      • Baby

        Piglet.. This is an excellent response. I had gathered a lot of what you said, but could never have stated it so succinctly.

        I am glad that I’m not the only one that thought it was hard to follow.

    • Tony Ortega

      Sorry this was confusing. I thought it was pretty clear. He works for DMA now. Before agreeing to have me tell his story, he wanted to give the church one last opportunity to correct what he believes is an unwarranted comm ev and disconnection by his daughters. So he wrote up a petition to the church, and had one of his friends at DMA deliver it to the church. He told me that if the church reversed the comm ev and returned things to “status quo,” meaning him not really taking classes but still being connected to his daughters, then he would never tell his story publicly.

      Instead, he heard from his friends that Scientology is telling people that he’s been declared and to disconnect from him. So now, as he says, a state of “war” exists between himself and Scientology.

      And so, a few days ago, he gave me the green light to tell his story. And I’m glad he did.

      • Baby

        OK.. Maybe my confusion was.. ” Why in God’s name wouldn’t he know that he would receive a comm ev an disconnection from his daughters after informing the committee

        “They asked me how long I had gone on the Internet. For a year or two, I told them.

        ‘Why did you do this?’ the youngest woman asked me. I said because I was curious. I had received this email from Debbie Cook, who I knew to be a longtime Sea Org veteran. I didn’t even know she was out of the Sea Org at that point. I just wanted to find out if what she was saying was true or not.”
        ………………………………………

        I have read stories where people have been declared after going on the internet one time.. and refusing a sec check.

        ***It will be interesting to note if he will still have a job at DMA after all this..

        and did he think HE would be the exception to the rule?

      • Baby

        I’m glad he did too Tony.. He was brave to do so..and I sincerely mean that Skip.

  • What a story! I feel sorry for every single person who ever got involved with the Scientology cult without exception including to some degree L. Ron Hubbard himself, who came to see in his final days that wealth and ‘power’ do not make a happy man or one loved by his family and fellows. Miscavige? Ok, maybe one exception 😉

    • Baby

      xoxoxo Hi blondie..

    • MaxSpaceman

      most definitely, Pete, that 1 exception.

  • Holy shitbombs, Fernando Alonso just walked away from this crash at the Aus Grand Prix

    edit…. one camera managed to take one of the most amazing bits of crash footage I think I’ve ever seen… it’ll be all over Youtube sooner or later

    • I uploaded the slo-mo vid to my blog…. scroll to the bottom to watch it

      https://www.scientologybollocks.com/david-tiny-fists-miscavige-outed-sociopath-bt-father/

      • Baby

        Jesus H. Christmas.. How in God’s name did he live.. and yet sometimes fender benders kill.

        • well, … he did have a bit of a limp when he walked away

          • Baby

            Lush.. so I was watchin a movie ..couldn’t get into it..googled to see if it would pick up.. UGH ( Final Girl)

            Directed by Douchebag Tyler Shields.. I got out of that movie right then and there..ugh

        • this is him half an hour later…. amazing

          • Baby

            Absolutely amazing..

        • these cars are made to keep the driver safe. That’s why us spectators can’t see the drivers…

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        :O

        Thank goodness he’s okay. Geez…that could have killed him.

    • Juicer77

      Whoa! Glad he is ok!

    • Draco

      Excuse my language, but FUCK!!

  • presidential candidates brilliantly nailed as DC comic book characters [IMO]

    • Baby

      bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahha Perfect..absolutely perfect Lush..

    • Newiga

      Joker Trump is the stuff of nightmares!

  • Baby

    It has been a very heavy day here.. filled with back and forth discussion.
    Here are my thoughts for today.. f5

    • Newiga

      LMAO!! Perfect!

      I’ll have a nightcap (morningcap for me. It’s 8am here) with you, Baby.

      • Baby

        I had 2 beers at a dinner party tonight Weigie.. Damn I wish I had one now.. I would pop corn.. and just veg out.. smooches.. and cheers! Clink.

        • Newiga

          I had two beers with friends last night also. The darkest I could find. Love it but it always gives me a headache. No matter how much or little I drink it. X(

          • Baby

            I’m more of a Mich Ultra fan.. last night I had a dark ale.. didn’t like it.. It didn’t stop me from drinking it though..hahaha

            Shoot.. headache..that’s no fun weig

  • Baby

    NIght all.. My head is spinning.. Everyone made sense..then nothing made sense..then I saw both sides.. and then only one side.. Good Lord..I felt like I was at a Debate Competition.

    Movie time..xoxo love baby.. see you later today..

    • MaxSpaceman

      It’s clouds illusions I recall
      I really don’t know clouds at all.
      (Joni Mitchell), 1967)

      • Baby

        YES! I felt like I was on pot..I swear..

    • FredEX2

      Goodnight Baby. Sleep well. I’m about to go to bed too. Was just reading everyone’s remarks from today and see some of us are still up! It’s nearly 2 am for me…Sweet dreams.

      • Baby

        NIght Fred.. I actually was off to watch a movie.. up all night.. sleep days now.. but had to go snoop in kitchen for treats.. Meh..

        Nothing..so made toast.. yum.. Oh and cereal.. tomorrow!

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Egads! What a crappy looking cake!
    (At the Steven’s Creek Org)

    #happybirthdaysir #lronhubbard #birthdaycake #strawberry #doublechocolate #chocolateraspberry #homemade #madefromscratch #scientology

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDJ–JRshWu/?taken-by=tabba_chubbs

    • I’m guessing they’re grapes… you’d obviously assume a little kid made this but it was in fact the 68 year old head chef of the Freewinds on shore leave [I’m pretty sure it was him]

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Their cake tech is weak – didn’t even use a cake board. It looks like they used cardboard cut from an old box to put the cake on – yuck! It’s yucky and tacky just like the Commodor.

      • FredEX2

        No way…..really?!!! OMG.

        • Supper Powers

          It’s not. Her name is Tabitha Ingram. She is a 30-35 year old woman who is obsessed with her BMW and who is likely on staff or a very engaged public.

    • FredEX2

      Oh my goodness how completely unappetizing it looks. That takes the cake! Did you get a piece? 😆

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        After veiwing that photo, I may never be hungry for cake again! 😉

    • April Moonlight

      homemade cakes, 7th grade baking club, best of the 11 and 12 year old students.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        Yep, a cake only a parent could love 🙂

    • Juicer77

      This is a pretty good metaphor for the state of the Idle Morgues right now. Someone spent their own money and time to do this. DM won’t even spring for a cake for each Org to celebrate the big birthday. Way to rally the troops, genius!

    • Draco

      Looks like someone’s oven was running too hot. Burnt offering to Lord Hubris?

      • Juicer77

        LOL

    • TheMirrorThetan

      Yummy. Everyone likes their chocolate cake burnt to shit around the edges.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        That might have been meant as some sort of a tribute to LRH. Black around the edges, just like his TEETH! Heehee

        • TheMirrorThetan

          Eww. You might be onto something there. 🙂

    • MM

      Nothing says “classy” like Ionic columns supporting a carefully torn piece of cardboard!

      • Draco

        And on top of said piece of cardboard is something that just barely escapes being called a pancake. My pre-teen grandchildren made better looking cakes than this. I can’t believe they actually put it out for viewing and consumption.
        They should be aSHAAAAMED!!!

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          When I was in the Scouts, if a kid walked in with a cake to be served that looked like as unappetizing as this, a parent would “accidentally” drop it on the floor, apologize profusely, then speed away to the closest supermarket to purchase a replacement cake.

          • Draco

            That would have been the wiser option 🙂

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    A photo of Bob Duggan at last week’s FLAG LRH Birthday Bash/Patron’s Ball. His face now looks like its made out of wax…
    (refresh)
    https://www.instagram.com/p/BC6sjhLScC5/?taken-by=batyamaman

    • She’s skanky.

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        She’s just another eastern European trying to jump onto the CO$ prosperity train. Didn’t you know that they are all going to be billionaires thanks to LRH & COB? That’s just about all they post about. Everyone in this cult seems to be in on one hustle or another.

    • Graham

      Congratulations to Bob Duggan. To reach your sixties and to have all the stresses and pressures of running a successful company yet not to have a single hair turn grey is to transcend the limits of human physiology. Maybe he really does have OT powers?

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        He keeps his hair from turning grey by exiling his pesky kids off to South Africa. And probably using Grecian Formula by the quart.

    • Victor

      There was someone else celebrating LRH’s birthday: https://www.facebook.com/ONRAC/

      7 hours ago:

      “I am, right now, at the L Ron Hubbard 105th birthday celebration. No one has recognized me, but two staff members have tried to sign me up for classes.”

      5 hours ago:

      “About an hour and a half into the event, a guard came to escort me out. Pretty tense conversation followed.”

      4 hours ago:

      “You’ll never believe where I am NOW. [Update: I’m back home safe and sound. Will tell the whole story later.]”

  • April Moonlight

    I don’t know how to contact the moderators of this site, hopefully someone can help. I’ve been posting here for over a year but my computer has a faulty mouse sometimes that causes me to accidentally click on something unintended, which is usually ok, (if I upvote someone) but once in awhile I accidentally click on the “flag” by a post (which mortifies me – I did NOT intend to flag anyone’s post, ever) and I’m not sure how to “unflag” it or note that it was done in error – if I hit the flag a second time, will it unflag? Can I in some way send a note to the mods that it was a “mistake” click of the mouse? Sorry for any confusion this has caused, and I vow to be more careful whenever it happens, then a month later, it happens again, arghh.

    • OOkpik

      When you hit the Flag, you should get a little pop-up box reading ” are you sure you want to flag this comment?” and a choice of “Yes” or “Cancel”. If it’s too late for that, it also contains a note saying:
      “This page at http://disqus.com says:” Maybe that’s your best lead as Disqus responds to Flags – but only if there are enough of them to warrant attention. You most likely have nothing to worry about. 🙂

      ETA: The moderators here at the Bunker would see your post and realize what happened.

      • April Moonlight

        Thanks for the explanation, I feel relieved now, whew. The mouse just does what it wants sometimes, lol. I can’t recall seeing a verification box though, so I’m not sure, maybe it didn’t actually “flag” the comment. I should have realized that it takes more than one flag to get a comment removed anyway. Thanks again.

    • Baby

      Oh April.. Seriously you are so sweet to confess.. but it really isn’t a big deal at all.. Human error..and OOKpik is right.. They would know right away it was an error..

      • April Moonlight

        Thanks Baby, I feel much better now that you’ve reassured me. 🙂 This is my first place posting using disqus, I felt unsure of myself.

        • Baby

          OH you are welcome April.. Girl sometimes my fingers are all over the place.. a good one for me was back in the day we had a upvote and downvote ..

          that would show up..and I would repeatedly click the downvote.. ugh..and a bunker Buddy would see me downvoting .. it was so stupid and at times embarrassing..ha

          If you would feel more comfortable you just sit beside me! xo

    • Juicer77

      Don’t worry, we all do it. Serial flaggers and downvoters are very rare here, and quickly recognized. It’s all good!

      • April Moonlight

        Ok, whew, a relief to know. I don’t think I’ve downvoted anyone, but it’s nice to know one vote wouldn’t be enough to make someone’s comment go away. I felt really bad thinking that I might have accidentally caused that. I appreciate your reply, thank you. 🙂

        • Juicer77

          No problem. Even multiple flags on comments don’t automatically remove them – the moderators have to do it. If you see people griping because comments disappeared, it’s usually Disqus having a bad day! 🙂

    • Dice

      It happens 🙂 I had the same reaction as you when i was trying it out. I also have to try out different switches in buildings just to see what it does! – It’s a thing i have.

      • April Moonlight

        I didn’t intend to actually try it out, it was an oops, but I am very gratified to hear that I haven’t caused any difficulty for any innocent poster who shouldn’t have been flagged. Thank you for taking the time to reply, very kind of you 🙂

  • Frodis73

    I have no words. Actually, I have a lot of words, and they are NOT nice. What the hell is up with this broad?
    eta-she even has a disconnected kid, but it’s not sci’s fault? wtf?
    https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/politically-incorrect-view-why-i-think-the-stopscientologydisconnection-billboard-is-a-bad-idea/

    • In her case, she may be right it’s not sci’s fault that her son/daughter disconnected from her….

      • Frodis73

        Well, maybe, we don’t know her specific circumstances. I just think she is so off that the billboard is some kind of horrible thing.

      • Ella Raitch

        I’m not sure how many sons she has but one posted on ESMB about a year back and the son was pretty clear about why he disconnected and received a lot of support around this decision (until his sister started posting and the whole thing ended up in grudge matches, from memory). And yes Scientology was not directly involved.

    • Juicer77

      What she doesn’t get – at ALL – is the thought-stopping mechanism built into $cientology. The billboard is communication meant to offer a choice, open a channel of communication if the person chooses to use it. The Co$ only tells you “don’t think, don’t talk, don’t look, don’t listen.” She really doesn’t understand what the billboard is supposed to be. I’m sorry her son is not talking to her. It’s hard enough getting through to those inside even if you are savvy in the way cults control people. She’s got a lot of learning to do.

      • Frodis73

        Exactly. You said all that so well. I’m too angry to try replying to that post….maybe later. 🙂

      • Graham

        I only skim-read her lengthy post, but basically it seemed to be about allowing your adult children to make their own decisions even if you think they are wrong. I wonder if she’d think the same if it were heroin we were talking about rather than Scientology?

        • Juicer77

          Good point. Another situation where straight thinking is not present..

    • Supper Powers

      Seems like she has bigger problems than just Scientology.

  • OOkpik

    The first day of spring has finally arrived.