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Scientology, in forced-abortion case: It’s not abuse if you don’t complain when it’s happening

Bert Deixler

Bert Deixler

On Monday, Scientology attorney Bert Deixler filed the church’s final salvo at Laura DeCrescenzo before Monday’s crucial hearing in her forced-abortion lawsuit.

In 2009 Laura filed her lawsuit, and one of its main arguments was that since she had left Scientology’s Sea Org in 2004, she had come to a different understanding of her life in that strict group that requires signing a billion-year contract. After she had left it in 2004, she remained a Scientologist for four more years until finally becoming disaffected and reading eye-opening information about Scientology online.

Only then, she argued, did she gain the perspective necessary to understand how much her life in the Sea Org — which had begun when she was only twelve years old — was a life of coercion, indoctrination, and deprivation of liberty. Central to that experience was the pressure she was put under, when she became pregnant at 17, to have an abortion. Like many other women who have left the Sea Org, she says that she was forced to have the abortion in the larger interests of Scientology — the “greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.”

But Scientology, during its questioning of Laura in depositions, bore down not on how she sees her life in the Sea Org now, but how she perceived it then. Did she feel like a prisoner then? Didn’t she “voluntarily” agree to submit to the Sea Org’s prison detail, the “Rehabilitation Project Force” (RPF), which she stayed in for several years? Wasn’t her decision to have an abortion her own personal one?

Laura and her legal team have argued consistently that these things were forced upon her, but that Scientology’s manipulative techniques made her feel at the time that she was making these decisions on her own.

Now, in the final document submitted to the court before Monday’s hearing on Scientology’s motion for summary judgment, Deixler hammers away at this, arguing that Laura today cannot sue over things she felt were reasonable when they were actually happening. It doesn’t matter what she thinks of them today. It matters only that when Laura was joining the Sea Org, submitting to the RPF, and agreeing to an abortion, that she was doing so in agreement with the church she belonged to.

Laura’s case survived a previous motion for summary judgment, in October 2013, but Scientology has come back with another one, this time claiming that the lawsuit violates the church’s rights to exercise religion under the protection of the First Amendment. As we’ve seen in previous filings, Scientology argues that no matter how badly it treats people in the Sea Org, it’s not a matter for a U.S. civil court to examine. Writes Deixler in this latest document…

Under the First Amendment, churches may encourage a minister or member of a religious order to forego child rearing so she or he may continue in the religious life. Courts may not interfere with those efforts.

 
What a pretty way to say, “force a 17-year-old, technically a child herself, to have an abortion so she can continue to work 112-hour-weeks for pennies an hour.”

Also, Deixler suggests that not only was Laura not held against her will, but that she could have tapped her shoes together and left at any time…

Quite simply, plaintiff could have left the Sea Org every single day. She could have walked away at any time. She could have not returned from her various travels away from Los Angeles. She could have called her mother. She could have routed out and remained a Scientologist in good standing, like her sister did. Or, she could have left without “routing out.” The reason she did not was because she did not want to. She was a committed Scientologist.

 
Deixler has put together numerous arguments in this filing for why the judge should decide that Laura DeCrescenzo has not proved that she was held against her will or was forced to have an abortion, based on testimony of how she felt at the time.

But that’s never been the point of her lawsuit. She sued in 2009 after she realized to what extent she was victimized. And the decision before Los Angeles Superior Court Judge John P. Doyle on Monday will be, shouldn’t a jury get to decide who has the more compelling argument, Laura DeCrescenzo or Bert Deixler and the Church of Scientology?

We look forward to your comments on this latest filing…

DeCrescenzo v. Scientology: Defendant Reply

 
——————–

Chris Shelton interviews Rachel Bernstein, part 3

Here’s the third and final part of Chris’s conversation with Rachel…

 

 
——————–

Bonus items from our tipsters

Mark Bunker, on today’s gem from the archives of XENU TV: “On L. Ron Hubbard’s birthday, I spoke briefly with former member Neal Hamel whose neighborhood had been leafleted by Scientology.”

 

 
Actual caption: “Long-time veteran Tampa staff members and long-term friends (Edna and Dale) just routed on to their Survival Rundown together!! We are so excited about the beautiful journey you guys have ahead of you on this course!!”

 
SciTampa8

 
Scientology in Alaska!

 
SciAnchorage

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on March 3, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Bert Allen

    All of Deixler’s arguments ignore the fact that Laura was not legally competent to sign the Sea Org contract or consent to the abortion, because she was a minor. The 1st Amendment does not allow religions to abuse minors, which the Catholic Church is well aware.

  • Jgg2012

    Bert Deixler is the perfect reason why people hate lawyers. (Does “people hate lawyers” come up in search engines? What if I say it 3 times?) Yes, she did not object at the time and seemed OK at the time. If I jumped off the top off a 35 story building I would be OK while passing the 25th floor. That’s not the point. Laura was mislead and lied to. She was isolated from the wog world. She was denied basic education. Using Deixler’s arguments, the people off North Korea are OK at the time.

    • Great analogies.

    • madame duran

      Quite simply, plaintiff could have left the Sea Org every single day. She could have walked away at any time. She could have not returned from her various travels away from Los Angeles. She could have called her mother. She could have routed out and remained a Scientologist in good standing, like her sister did. Or, she could have left without โ€œrouting out.โ€ The reason she did not was because she did not want to. She was a committed Scientologist.

      Keep in mind that the person he’s referring to is someone who, at the time, was a MINOR between the ages of 12 and 17 years old. A DEPENDENT (not legally emancipated). What “options” does a cloistered, impressionable child have after walking away from the only family/environment that it has known and entering into an adult world, completely unprepared?
      – “She could have walked away at any time” To go where?
      – “She could have not returned from her various travels away from Los Angeles” Again, where would she stay or go afterwards? (let’s put aside the fact that these “travels” were arranged by Scientology for ‘church business’ and weren’t made for personal leisure. She had no say in the matter)
      – “She could have called her mother” You mean the same mother that was forcibly separated from her by the Scientology cult as part of Sea Org “duty”?
      – “She could have routed out and remained a Scientologist in good standing…Or, she could have left without ‘routing out'” And face the consequence of NEVER seeing her family/friends again? Leaving Scientology is not an unconditional release. Disconnection and “freeloader” bills are evidence of this. Further proof is contained within Deixler’s statement itself: it’s impossible to leave WITHOUT routing out and remain “in good standing” simultaneously.
      Basically, Deixler is arguing that Laura had the “freedom” to become a runaway street kid. Abandoned with no adult supervision/protection, no money, no job skills, and useless cult education. Wow…such a viable option!

      There are no words to describe how ridiculously depraved this argument is.

      • Chee Chalker

        I made a comment elsewhere in this chain, but I’ll make it again because it is an important nuance. Some jurisdictions (not sure if California is one of them, but this is fairly common) consider a married individual (even if under 18) a legal adult.
        The marriage takes them out of the minor/dependant status.

  • Sir Derf

    Wow. So these filthy Scientology criminals think they can commit massive human rights atrocities and abuses against their customers — and other people — and provided their victims don’t immediately run to the police or to the FBI and request protection or file criminal charges, it’s some how not human rights crimes.

    Amazing. These filthy Scientology assholes are absolutely insane.

    What do these assholes say about the endless times they hold people against their will so that they can’t flee to the FBI and demand protection? That’s probably also not core criminality in these bastard’s criminal minds.

  • Elizabeth Lavet

    I have written about this before but here it is again. These people, Scientologists, specialize in making you believe you cannot leave at critical times that you need to leave, or want to leave. The atmosphere around Laura, talked about above, during the time being pressured to abort could have been extreme, as it has been explained was the tactic. Separation from husband, exhaustion, repetition etc. Trying to SELL me for $6,000. they asked if they could lock the door, said I could leave anytime I wanted, one person took the key out of the lock and put it in his jacket. Even though I had repeatedly told them I was NOT signing any papers that day they grilled me telling me that since I could not make a decision on my own, for myself, in my best interest, they would make it for me and demanded I sign the contract for services paper. They, three large guys and a woman, told they were not going to let me leave until I signed. They had kept me waiting for them for hours, until just at closing time, they had already indicated we might be locked in overnight unless I signed, that it had happened before. They tried the routine, pick up the pen, thank you, put the pen on the paper, thank you, sign the paper….. By the time they got to the point of telling me they were not going to let me go unless I signed, everything they said about being able to leave at anytime was wiped out. I was now scared. I did not know these people. I believed they were not going to let me go. I used a tactic my parents taught me and made light of it. I took my shoes off and said that we better get comfortable then because I was not signing anything and acted like I was not phased in the least by what they said. This idea that someone should have known they could leave because they were told even one hour earlier they could is bull. You stand around terrifying a young girl, outweighing her by miles, and telling her loudly you are going to make the decision for her since she is not able to make the decision in her best interest herself and order her to do XYZ because you are not going to let her go until she does. The young person being bullied knows she has no back up and they know that, through interviews, in Laura’s case because they made it that way. I did throw in that I forgot to tell you I have my sister visiting me and she just might call the police. Laura had been under their control for years, they knew her every move. She did not have this luxury of being able to create sudden doubt. They talked outside the room, leaving I think one person with me. They let me go. I hate to this day how they treated me. The helplessness that made me feel. They knew what they were doing could have been misconstrued because they asked me to sign papers stating I was not held against my will, this indicates to me they knew what they did could have been viewed like that. From what I am learning about the violence and intimidation in the sea org. I can only imagine what Laura’s experience and fear was like. I was scared. I minimized it later in my head, but it is not small, it is big, big enough they want to protect their misdeeds by signed paperwork. Again, I was not signing any paperwork that day, and I made that clear repeatedly from the first moment to the last. But I had someone that had made me promise that, spoke no ill of Scientology, just made me promise that. Made me promise I would not take my purse in or allow anyone to follow me to the car. I did not know why he asked me to promise these things, until I saw a video by someone that had left on YouTube and realized these high handed tactics used by Scientologist in more places than just that one organization, they are universal. I have not doubt they probably told Laura she was not going to be allowed to leave until she promised to have an abortion. Probably made her sign a paper to do so and since scientologists are programed to believe their word is binding and irreversible AND she had no way to get away from them, unlike myself, she was coerced and forced into something. There is at least two other videos where women describe how they were literally afraid for their lives and were made helpless in situations with scientology when scientology wanted something from them. I believe it happened all the time but since no one could talk about it, perhaps they did not even know it was happening to other people to, certainly not how they felt about it. There is a sense of strength knowing I am not the only one. I believe this bullying by scientology has happened to lots of people. That it literally was part of their routine. I believe scientology is incapable of change and that it most likely happens today. The atmosphere of great fear, from the video testimonies rightly so, fear that silenced everyone has dissipated a lot with the internet. If the government is honest they too have been and even today are under that haze of fear, terrified of being buried under an avalanche of lawsuits. I hope with all my heart that Laura wins. Of course she was coerced terribly. Today I think Sea Org. members are still coerced but they also have a way to stay and not loose everything, if individual members allow them to follow that path.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      This is called kidnapping. It is a crime. I am sorry you had to experience this. Forget all the excuses and mumbo jumbo phrases. This IS Kidnapping.

      • Bert Allen

        Or illegal imprisonment.

        • April

          I think the legal term is “false imprisonment,” but then again IANAL.

          “In fact, any person who intentionally restricts another’s freedom of movement without their consent (and without legal justification) may be liable for false imprisonment, which is both a crime and a civil wrong. It can occur in a room, on the streets, or even in a moving vehicleโ€”just as long as the subject is unable to move freely, against his or her will.” http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/false-imprisonment.html

          • Bert Allen

            You are correct. The term was escaping me, and I didn’t want to take the time to look it up. I am a recovering lawyer.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Thank you all. It’s a crime. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • What puzzles me is why nobody compains about this and why people do not get arrested for doing it…

        • OOkpik

          Because…Scientology!

        • Kid Kat

          The scions would deny they did it. How do the kidnapped ones prove it happened? Record them?

          • Find someone still nominally ‘in’, and provide them with a concealed recording device which could be remotely monitored. Once the door was locked a crime was in process and officers could enter the premises to make arrests.

            This is the kind of thing coppers do. Talk to one, and they will come up with a list of suggestions as to how to obtain proof of guilt in this situation, given the power to investigate.

            The only thing that stops them is a lack of political will.

        • Elizabeth Lavet

          This is an extra tid bit. 1990’s I called the Attorney Generals office to complain after my experiences with Scientology. I was informed the government had just gone through a huge expense dealing with multiple lawsuits from Scientology. The representative indicated to me that, in his opinion, they really wanted nothing to do with scientology at that time. He would take my complaint but thought little would come of it, so I did not file one. He asked me if they hurt me, no. They did let me go. I had not tried to leave when they declared they were not going to let me leave. I was afraid that might lead to violence. When they declared that they were not going to let me go until I signed the contrat they all got up really close to me, crowded in on me. There was no personal space, no pushing back in my chair, etc.I indicated to the representative that they were promising things they obviously could not do. He indicated “buyer beware”. Scientologists were infiltrating public offices, maybe he was a Scientologist. Sometimes even justice and politics are better off with a little moral support from the people. Tony Ortega’s book on Paulette Cooper really highlights why people did not speak out. At the time I had no computer, computers did not have windows, had no cell phone, no internet. Now if Scientologists target someone they are likely to be video taped and it posted on the internet. Personally I was somewhat embarrassed that I even considered getting involved with scientology.

          • The potential cost should not enter into any question of justice. If it does, politics has taken over – and ignoring offences which cost big money to investigate will probably cost more in the long run by enabling the offenders to prosper.

            I understand the government representaives’ reticence in your case, because you were honest about the circumstances and it would have been a difficult case to prosecute. However, if they had locked you in the room – that would clearly have been an offence.

            You are right that people were intimidated by the system before and that ubiqutous communications mean that this is no longer so to the same extent. They are now speaking out.

            However, despite this, nothing os being done about obvious multiple and ongoing offences (e.g. Narconon) because there is still not the political will. Scientology wold fall tomorrow if only a small number of their offences were investigated and prosecuted.

            You should be proud of your actions in approaching the authorities, and they should be ashamed of their inaction.

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              Thanks for your information and support. They are very sneaky and fully aware of what they are doing and the impact.
              To make sure it is clear: They asked me if they could lock the door at the very first, when we moved to the room, indicating they were having lots of interruptions (reason for locking the door). They even stated that I could leave, get out anytime I wanted. They locked it with a key that they removed. LATER, in the sells routine they then stated (hostile, demanding) that they were not going to let me go until I signed their contract for services paper. They literally had created a situation, with my permission, where I could not just get up and walk out the door. I was dependent on the person with the key, producing the key, AND unlocking the door. I believe this is similar to why they take people’s passports. It slows people from leaving an abusive situation to where they can then use another tactic. They have figured out how to walk the grey-line of the law and much of it is on Hubbard’s written instructions.
              You are right, the political willingness may not be there yet, but it is shifting. Yes, it appears to me also that Narconons are being operated in negligent manners on many levels.

            • In a court of law I suspect that ‘we locked the door to prevent interruptions, and she agreed to this’ would not play. A jury would likely characterise this ploy as (to use a legal term) a lie.

              It’s on a par with, ‘I hid her shoes because I thought they looked a bit tight, and her feet needed a rest. I didn’t intend to stop her running away – and she didn’t mind when I said she could take them off’

              It’s not their excuses which mattes – it’s the fact that they are part of well-crafted and deliberate , established practice with the aim of intimidating people into parting with their money.

              Seen from the outside, this is so obvious, it’s hardly worth saying. The same goes for taking passports. In the closed environment of Scientology, taking your passport can be made to seem reasonable. It’s not. It’s illegal and manipulative, and a court could not tolerate this if evidence of this clear pattern of abuse was presented to them.

    • Observer

      You may have felt weak and scared, but you did not give them what they wanted. That is a victory which came from incredible strength. Respect.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Elizabeth, thank you for this post, perhaps the most powerful comment I have ever read. This should be read by anyone who doubts the power of coercive mind control. It is really terrifying to imagine being ganged up on and bullied/harassed/intimidated like this. You hit on quite a few key factors – including a few things you could use that Laura couldn’t, such as saying that your sister was visiting and might call the police if you didn’t return, and using a technique your parents taught you about kicking back and pretending to relax. What courage you showed!

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        We had a little discussion after I was told I was FREE ie: they were LETTING me go. The scientologist stated to me, after I refused to sign his paperwork absolving them of any wrong doing, that, You know you were free to go at anytime,. I asked him why he had said I was not then. I also asked him why he had taken the key out of the door. He stated that people often tried to come in while they were trying to conduct business and when they do it shakes the door. The key could have fallen out of the lock and inadvertently gotten knocked under the door. I now wonder how many people that happened to. I mentioned they should not have a lock like that on a door where they deal with the public, they should be free to exit at anytime. He indicated it would cost too much to replace all the locks and threatened me with some policy about doing harm to scientology if I wanted them to do unnecessary expenditures. I also suggested they just put a sign on the door, Do NOT Disturb, he said they tried that and it was ignored. They had an ANSWER and excuse for just about everything. Minimization.

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          These are remarkably lame excuses, all three of them. I am so glad you got away!

    • flyonthewall

      Thank you for sharing. Just a tip. If you break your comment into paragraphs with a space between each paragraph it is much easier to read.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        My computer won’t let me make paragraphs. No matter how many spaces I put between them when I post it the paragraphs go together. I also usually edit, but when I edit every punctuation turns into about five symbols of gibberish I have to then delete, clean up. I am going to make a video on the information I posted so I figured I will just splat it out there for now. I think I will change to Apple Computer before I start the videos for YouTube. Computer technology frustrates me. Have been having lots of trouble. Also, don’t worry, your suggestion did not upset me, contrary, let me express my frustration, thanks.

        • flyonthewall

          Oh I’m sorry. Seriously though thanks for sharing your experience, it sounds terrifying. I’ve read others with similar experiences. Every voice helps.

          • But so does legibility. And punctuation. AND ALL CAPS!!!!!!!

        • Techie

          Thanks for your story Elizabeth. No one knows what it is like who has not been there.Secret Disqus decoder ring method for making paragraphs: only do it with no spaces in between. This is actually part of the editing method that makes the whole internet work, known as “HTML” or HyperText Markup Language. Disqus understands it and you can do all kinds of magic, like make pictures in your comment that appear in the order you want with captions. But the most useful ones are p for paragraph as above, i for italic and b for bold, and Put in a quote you want to appear with a line to end the quote. You can also insert links. It makes no difference if you are using a Mac or a PC.

          Example of how a quote works

          • flyonthewall

            Thank you Techie. 2nd level support FTW!

          • Elizabeth Lavet

            Thank you so much. I appreciate this information more than you will ever know. Posting seems hard for me. I have admired all the special posts with transported information, different fonts, bolding, and nice paragraphs.

            • flyonthewall

              here’s some font tricks that come in handy sometimes. f5

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Elizabeth, Thanks SO much for your story – my jaw was dropped. Not that I haven’t heard that type of thing here before, but just how prevalent it’s become even with public! Desperation turned to evil/willing to do anything! How long after that did you leave? Did they harass you or try to make you sign anything further? Disconnection? I’m SO thankful you’re out and sharing your story! Eventually this will become such common knowledge (I hope) that even judges will know what they’re dealing with as more and more of these suits occur! Congrats to your freedom and strength!

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              Good questions. This was in the 1990s. It is my opinion from reading other posts from later times that they have not changed. This story is from my very first visit to a scientology organization. God bless the ex-sea org. members, staff, and others speaking out. These people are doing a tremendous service. I want to speak out to fill a gap – there is not a lot of people talking about early experiences of the public. Frankly, I believe many people are afraid to speak out. I am appalled at the actions of this organization from day one. Steven Mango has done a wonderful job (EXCELLENT!) detailing what happened to him on a YouTube video. When I saw his video I realized that what he was saying sounded really familiar, much like my brief encounters in Texas. I realized then that my experiences were not rare encounters with a few loose cannon members, like Scientology would like to portray to the public when they are questioned. This is how they did business-standard tech. They were obviously doing these tactics with lots of people. I don’t know for sure what they are doing today. I do not believe their abusive unethical controlling nature has changed, because it was written by Hubbard. I went to three different organizations (orgs.), briefly. I attended a few classes. At two of the Scientology organizations I was blatantly lied to just to get me to come to the building. The tactics of persuasion and behavior from early on, day one, I would consider bizarre, confusing, and a great number of times unethical. One of the organizations seemed more ethical, less abusive, maybe because they were a smaller organization, probably a mission at that time. This organization had adjusted their behavior somewhat to appeal to a Mormon Culture. My conclusion: a person may not see the exact same behavior at every organization and I imagine it depends on the circumstances as to what you may see. What I realized from the internet is that, in my opinion, the bad and unethical behavior, other behaviors that shocked me from day one, are not anomalies, they are more a practice and policy.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              Wow that’s really shocking that they’d risk that with the public out of the gate! I can’t believe that happened on your FIRST visit – insane! It’s amazing how even before being totall indoctrinated, just the fear and sense of surreal “this can’t really be what this seems like, right?” Can catch you off guard. And you’re right – amidst all of that, I’d definitely forget being told “you’re free to leave anytime”. It sounds like you kept your head about you really well! So glad you’re out and didn’t get too far in there before seeing and recognizing the insanity. I’ll definitely check out his videos, as I’ve long been curious why so many public stay in. Thanks SO much for answering my questions! So glad you’re here and sharing your story!

            • Elizabeth Lavet

              Got it wrong Jenny, I did not forget they told me I could leave anytime. Their previous statements were meaningless when they are now telling me “We are not going to let you go until you sign these papers”. The current threat trumps the previous statements. How am I to know I am still free to leave when they are all crowding around me demanding I sign a contract stating THEY won’t let me leave until I do. The fact the door is locked with a key that is in the pocket of one of the men threatening to prevent me from leaving is just a sinking feeling. It is delusional of Scientologists to think telling someone they can leave anytime absolves them of the following act of telling the same person they are not going to allow them to leave until XYZ. On some level they know this, that is why they wanted me to sign the paperwork stating I was not held against my will. Was I shocked and surprised, yes. As far as not knowing what was going on, I knew exactly. I was being threatened, bullied, manipulated, held in a locked room that they had manipulated me into agreeing to let them lock. The sadistic nature of the situation did not escape me. They lied to me, they were not worried about people walking in or the door coming open while we discussed the program they wanted to sell me. They had wanted to make sure I realized I had no escape and I was totally at their mercy when they threatened me. They were abusing my courtesy to them, my willingness to hear them, my willingness to wait for them to have time to talk to me. What I was not sure of was how far they might go. If I got up to leave would they physically restrain me? If I tried to leave I would still have to wait for them to unlock the door. They seemed irrational. They suggested I sign the paperwork and they would not put it into action for three days, indicating I would have three days to call them and cancel the contract. This is highly irregular. Verbal means nothing against a signed paper. No one should do that, period. For them to suggest this was a huge red flag. I had repeatedly earlier offered to come back another day. These people were using unethical hard sell tactics, they were over the top. Of course I was concerned. >p>There behavior was unquestionably unacceptable under any circumstances. The fact it is suppose to be a church, just makes it worse.Yes, this happened early on to me. They simply want to pressure people into buying, putting money down. It is extreme, it is abusive hard sell tactics. The fact that scientologists have no conscious about this is shocking. They don’t face that if they have to get signed paperwork to absolve them of wrong doing they should stop doing it. They are unethical, not ethical. They are incapable of admitting wrong, facing the fact that many of Hubbard’s policies are abusive…- do NOT make a good society. They justify bad behavior.
              There are lots of good videos on the internet. Magoo44, Surviving Scientology, Chris Shelton…..
              If you are a scientologist I hope you get real. Learn both sides, then make a choice. If not, you have a treasure trove of information out there.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              I agree 100%! I know we get lurkers here, UTR and some that are maybe just curious, others that have very real doubts they can’t ignore any longer. I am so glad you posted because people need to know this behavior is SO wrong. Don’t participate in it and if you’ve been similarly victimized – it’s DEAD wrong, immoral, unethical and in ANY situation HIGHLY illegal. No “church” or even decent business would put one into such a situation then ask one to sign paperwork stating they didn’t do what they just did. Yet this group does and call themselves purveyors of freedom, most ethical beings on the planet.
              Thanks again for sharing and I hope one day we hear about someone who read your story and knew they had to leave.

            • Jenyfurrrrr

              PS – Thanks Elizabeth SO much and the part of my post above in the middle isn’t telling YOU not to participate, etc. that was for the lurkers who may be reading your story!

      • I love this gif.

      • Elizabeth Lavet

        Wow, that is amazing how fast you can come up with these inserts and put them in. You must have great computer organizational skills. Really cool.

    • Mark Foster

      THANK YOU for sharing your story! I mean that.
      You are absolutely correct. This IS the template for” reg” actions/recruiting/fund-raising and there is
      “policy” that supports it. The behavior is hard-wired into scientology culture.
      It’s classic abuser behavior. And, yes, the abused, tangled up in scientological mind-fuck and its
      attendant cognitive dissonance, afraid of losing family and friends and spiritual salvation, and afraid
      of the immediate physical threat in those situations, cave in, without believing strongly enough in
      the fundamental WRONGNESS of what’s occurring(momentary doubts and maybe even
      anger notwithstanding) to simply get up and walk out. It’s easier to understand, emotionally speaking, if one has been in a similarly compromised, vulnerable position.
      Every story counts. Every story like this that is shared helps those who are experiencing or have
      experienced this treatment understand the mechanics of the abuse and its pervasive presence.
      It is this kind of information that can empower people and help them regain their dignity and freedom of choice.
      It is a valuable lesson that can be used to help people protect themselves.
      Wishing you the best, Elizabeth!

      • Kid Kat

        Right on Mark! There needs to be a bulletin board to stop the kidnapping/ false imprisonment along with stop disconnection. Add this to the protest signs. Get it done!

    • Searing testimony. Thanks for sharing it. Every story helps.

    • Orglodyte

      I had several such experiences. My young adult child was recruited for the sea org in similar fashion over 100 times. Scientology Hard Sell makes the time share condo experience look like buying a coffee from a vending machine.

      If you’d like to go down the rabbit hole of other people’s hard sell experiences, and read the policies that create this culture, http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/hardsell.html is an excellent resource.

    • Fink Jonas

      wow! the desperation to keep one body in the shop.

  • TOT: Cool crow encounter: It’s ‘go broke day’ and I ran some errands. Last stop was the Giant Eagle (grocery store) at a Chapel Hill plaza. I pull into the parking lot and only see the Chapel Hill Gull Group, no North Hill Crow Crew. The Chapel Hill area—filled with plazas, restaurants, a mall, etc is the main employer of the North Hill Crow Crew. Get out of my van and yell out (I obviously don’t give a fuck) “where’s my crows?!” and go into the store. Come out about 15 minutes later and the CHGG is gone; but a few of the NHCC is now in the parking lot! XD I had parked towards the end of the lot and they were in the couple trees down there and in some of the empty areas. I called out “Hey guys! Glad you vanquished the gull group, I’ll see you when you clock out in a few hours.” And damned if a couple of them didn’t start cawing while looking straight at me. I wished them a good rest of their work day and drove home. I get out of my van and 2 crows sort of flew low cawing over my driveway. I have no idea if they followed me or what.

    My van is VERY noisy–Edward claims he can hear it 2 blocks away but I doubt that, 1 block yes, 2 blocks no. So I’m sure they know the sound of my van. I didn’t have a camera with me or on me; but they might recognize me from always having a bandanna on and yeah, I do talk to ’em cuz I’m insane. ๐Ÿ˜€ MY CROWS!!!

    • flyonthewall

      you know what you have to do next. Dress up like a crow and become one of them.

      • LOL!!! But what about my toads?? They come out of hibernation next month! I already forewarned the new neighbors that they will see me out in spring rain storms in the street with an umbrella picking toads up to taxi them to their destination–my ponds—so they arrive safely. Best to tell them in advance the strange sites they’ll see. Haven’t warned them about the BLIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yet.

        • flyonthewall

          did you ever read Franz Kafka’s, Metamorphosis? That is your assigned reading for this month. It will answer all your questions

          • Observer

            She likes crows, not cockroaches. Silly fly.

            • flyonthewall

              well thanks for ruining the story for Tia, Ms. Pants!

            • I will read it anyway sometime this year and report back to you! ๐Ÿ™‚

            • flyonthewall

              it’s really good, one of my favs.

            • somewhere i have ‘the trial’ but i haven’t read it…..but i do possess it—not a library book, i mean…..

            • flyonthewall

              not read that one but I’d like to. I need to read other stuff besides anti-scientology, seriously

            • i don’t read that much anti-sci because i can’t get that much from the ohio link, as anti-sci themed books are popular within the ohio university library system ๐Ÿ™ so last trip i ended up checking out nabokov, twain, king, and a bio on tesla…..

            • flyonthewall

              Nice

          • nope, never read it!! i’ll put it on my list and see if the kent state library has it! it’ll be a few months though before i get it, as i have books checked out to read now first ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Sir Derf

    So when you buy a car, drive it home and you’re happy with it, when it suddenly explodes and bursts in to flames and burns your house down, you can’t sue the bastard that sold it to you because you were happy with it at the time.

    Man, these Scientology assholes are filthy.

    • flyonthewall

      ikr, it’s called soap you dumb ronbots. Didn’t Hubbard teach them to clean all their crevices and nooks and crannies? Unbelievable.

    • chukicita

      When you buy a car and the seller neglects to tell you that there is a bomb in it, but you were happy with it at the time…

  • I feel like there is a good chance we will have a 4 posts day in 2016.

    • Sherbet

      Tony just fainted.

    • Jimmy3

      And if it feels like we will end the day with only three posts, please drive your car into a Scientology org
      Stay safe.

      • I only own a bicycle and I am not doing this shit, because it’s expensive and it will look really silly.

    • flyonthewall

      For that Tony would need an apprentice or possibly a prodigy

      • Nah, he can do 5 a day, if he wanted to.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          R U product officering Tony, Dodo?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        I thought he had apprentices?

        • flyonthewall

          that would explain the catnip and mouse heavy posts. I was starting to wonder

    • Newiga

      Stories that I would like to see in 2016 (doesn’t have to be on the same day)

      1) Someone getting their son/daughter/mother/father/brother/sister/friend back. Screw Disconnection
      2) More KOs for Scientology in court
      3) Scientology loses their tax-exemption
      4) Shelly Miscavige blows the cult and speaks out

      I know the last two are a bit out there… but hey, one can dream.

      • aquaclara

        ….and a new book from Tony on how Laura won her case.

      • Royce Harlow

        I’m itching in my skin for Ron Miscavage’s book. I’m positive that book is going to wreak havoc.

      • News of the first org to be simply abandoned by all its staff, and left standing empty for ages because the CofS :

        a) Does not dare tell their glorious leader about it
        b) Has lost the organisational ability to ‘handle’ the situation

        The collapse of Scientology in the world otside Clearwater and its compounds would not be far behind.

        • Newiga

          Amen!!

  • Gerard Plourde

    The issue that causes Scientology the most trouble in this case is, as has been mentioned, that of undue influence. We have here the case of a minor who was under the total control of the Sea Org since the age of 12. Those facts argue pretty forcefully that she was incapable of making a knowing, intelligent choice in the matters.

    • Chee Chalker

      Not to mention the fact that teenage marriage is encouraged in the Sea Org (lest there be any out 2D!) and these members are not paid a sufficient wage, nor provided enough medical advice/attention, to avoid pregnancy through the use of birth control.

    • aquaclara

      I hope undue influence has some legal weight, because if this isn’t undue influence, I’m not sure what is. A billion year contract, too, is a pretty significant hammer. It’s more than a lifetime. Here’s a snip from Tony’s earlier posts:

      “In her new declaration, Laura DeCrescenzo explains that she was born into a Scientology family and began volunteering at the Orange County, California church as young as six years old. At nine she began working at the church in Albuquerque, New Mexico. At 11, she was sent to Los Angeles for training, and was there subjected to intense recruitment for the Sea Org, which requires total commitment to Scientologyโ€™s goals.

      At 12 years old, with her parentsโ€™ approval, Laura signed the Sea Orgโ€™s billion-year contract. (She was Laura Dieckman then.) She was in the Sea Org for the next thirteen years.

      Once she was in the Sea Org, Laura says all of her communications with her family were controlled and censored. โ€œBefore any incoming and outgoing mail was provided to me or sent to my family members, it was opened and approved by the Church of Scientology,โ€ she writes.

      Occasionally, she points out, she could get a phone call to her parents while not being monitored. But she knew that sheโ€™d be questioned about it later, so she knew not to utter anything critical of the Sea Org.”

      • Gerard Plourde

        Undue influence is a concept deeply enshrined in the law, especially in the area of probate, gift and the creation of trusts. It specifically deals with the issue of a person in a position of trust, authority or a fiduciary relationship using that position to obtain a gift or benefit from the principal (the person making the gift, will, or trust). I can certainly see that this basic legal concept resonates in Laura’s case.

        • aquaclara

          Thank you. That’s good to know. They were certainly in a position of trust and authority, as well as a guardian, which I hope gets pointed out.

          It occurs to me that this kind of case would never make it this far in any other situation (even putting the Supreme Court effort aside). The judge has to wonder why they go this far to defend the indefensible.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      I’m trying not to be too excited about Monday because as soon as I get excited….it gets continued again. Could our legal system be any slower? ๐Ÿ˜€

    • J. Swift

      Gerard, maybe at trial Deixler will put David Miscavige on the stand. Dave joined the Sea Org when he was a teenager and things worked out pretty good for him in the Church. Dave learned to think with his fists and how to con the Commodore.

      • Gerard Plourde

        Call it a hunch but I think suggesting that strategy would result in Deixler being fired.

        • J. Swift

          Yeah you’re right. I guess I wouldn’t make a good lawyer.

          • Gerard Plourde

            No, your analysis is sound and in any other case that’s exactly what I’d do. Miscavge’s performance during the Nightline interview made him gun-shy of all but the most controlled settings. He’s petrified of being that vulnerable and my allusion to Deixler being fired was with that in mind

  • Mark

    Edna and Dale, the Darby and Joan of Tampa? (Fresh doses of Geritol all round):

    • We had a couple like that in Cincinnati Org. He was a retired lawyer, held some small post in HCO and possibly not even Clear on the “bridge” and she was a housewife, Ethics Officer and OT 8. Poor guy paid for her everything and she bossed him around all the time, work and home. He also helped Cincinnati go “Ideal”. They are not on staff anymore. Nice guy though, he would always talk to me about different cultures, news in the world and what not, like he needed to talk about something that is not Scientology related. Sigh.

      • Robert Eckert

        ancient joke: they had the perfect marriage; he was in charge of all the big things, like fixing this country and dealing with our enemies, and she was in charge of the little things, like where they would live and how the children would be schooled.

  • Susan B.

    OT: Drumpf is speechifying in Maine. I’ve heard many clips from his speeches and read articles about them but this is the first time I’ve listened to a speech from the beginning. My reaction is: WTF!!!! This creep is saying absolutely nothing except putting down other people and talking about himself. Everyone once in a while someone who appears to be a rabble rouser gets kicked out of the room. Are they plants perhaps so he can look manly and in charge? Just like listening to a DM speech I can’t focus very well on the words because there’s nothing there. It’s so boring and full of nonsense. WTF??????? I’m listening right now and another one shouted out something and he’s being kicked out. Are we as a country Fk-ed??????

    • Jimmy3

      Those are not plants, they are real people. And they are being assaulted over silent protest.

      I would link to an article, but every news outlet sans a few have covered it. You can easily search for it. The paper of record has covered it. My local paper has covered it. These people are fucking bullies.

    • coonellie

      I seriously asked Mr. C if we could move out of the country if he’s elected. Mr. C has already lived under a fascist and he’s not real excited about doing it again. If he does get in, I hate to say it, but we’ll get what we deserve for putting him there ๐Ÿ™

      • Susan B.

        Hi. I don’t know who you are. : ) Mr. C. being whom might I ask? : ) And where did he live?

        It’s hard to lay blame on any one segment of America. There’s a lot of pissed off people out there who are running on emotions and not thinking things through when choosing candidates. Apparently Drumpf has no planks in his platform. Just soundbites and platitudes. Here’s a link to his “issues” : https://www.donaldjtrump.com/issues/

        One factor was the Citizens United decision by SCOTUS in 2008 which created a huge flow of money into neocon coffers to spend on elections. And the Democratic side benefited from this money as well. http://www.demos.org/publication/top-5-ways-citizens-united-harms-democracy-top-5-ways-we%E2%80%99re-fighting-take-democracy-back

        Familiar with the Koch brothers? Here’s some info including a chart Super PAC monies contributed to Obama and Romney. https://www.seventy.org/uploads/files/349577564198463903-349577564198463903-askew-ford-peterson-wilson-super-pacs.pdf

        We are less a democracy and more an oligarchy. I know some have actually left the US due to politics but I feel I owe it to the spirit of democracy to stay here and pay back what was given to me and if anything be a witness to what’s going on and try to do my small part by voting, canvassing and sharing the facts with others who are less inclined to care about what’s going on in the Federal Government.

    • Tony Ortega

      Since he was just debating an hour ago in Detroit, I’m going to guess that he’s not currently speaking in Maine?

      • Susan B.

        Which Detroit event were you listening to? He has his own jet so he can appear to be in more than one place at the same time. He spoke in Portland, ME on Thursday, March 3, 2016, at 1:30 PM (EST) and I tuned in yesterday on KNEW 910 am in SF which is when I posted above –KNEW had a live broadcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWD_oWZyK-s

        Detroit Debate: Thursday @ 9 PM (EST)

        Warren, MI, Macomb Community College @ 9 AM (EST)

        Cadillac, MI – The Wexford Center @ 1 PM (EST)

  • The Thursday at 2 pm deadline was coming fast, so I rec’d not one, but TWO e-mails back from Elizabeth, both today. She tells me why I can’t buy that outmoded e-meter for $5, jokes about vegans being a cult but otherwise is ok. Still comes across as very sweet and nice, even letting her guard down a bit more and I see more typos creeping into her e-mails, most of them have been pretty literate so far. I hope she sees the light, but at least I think she’s probably better off working for Bridge Publications than a lot of other possibilities.

    Anybody got any ideas on what to send her on my list of Dianetics questions?

    Here’s the latest exchange:

    Hi Elizabeth-
    It is always nice to see a reply from you in my inbox. This will have to be a quick reply because I have a story deadline for 2 pm Thursday and haven’t even started yet!
    Anyways, as I mentioned, my medical friend who laughed when he saw the book is thinking of being a psychiatrist and then went to that museum when he was in LA. Have you seen the museum?
    I am studying Dianetics and preparing a list of questions to send you soon!
    How can I become eligible for an e-meter? Was that a good price if I ever became eligible? Is it illegal to own one? Do lots of people get arrested for owning them? I certainly don’t want that!

    That is nice to hear about your tutoring! You sound really great! I consider myself lucky to have someone like you answering my questions. I admire your patience.

    We had mentioned gangs and cults! I’m not sure exactly what a cult is, but I hadn’t least two friends almost get caught up in them! One was a really close friend from college who was living with us in San Francisco. A bunch of us took a road trip to LA which we did quite often and my friend was driving. She almost got talked into staying with this cult and a friend of hers and only got away because we insisted she give us a ride back to SF. Her plan was to sell her car as soon as she got back and give them the money! Luckily we had the whole eight hour drive to talk her back to reality. Wild huh?

    Would I send you my self-help book to see if your publisher would be interested in publishing it?
    Thanks!
    Alan

    Hi Alan,
    Sorry for the delay. Letโ€™s see if I can answer all your questions:
    Re the museum in LA, no Iโ€™ve not gone to it actually. I went to a similar travelling exhibit though.
    I donโ€™t know if anyone being arrested for owning a meter. Maybe, maybe not. I know that it is legally only to be used by Church ministers and you need to sign covenants and license agreements when you get one. You would become eligible by training as a Scientology auditor. It sounds like you were offered an earlier model which we no longer use. So $5 isnโ€™t really hear nor there.
    Wild story on your friend being wrapped up with a cult when she came to LA. My closest association with a cult in LA would probably be the Vegans (joke). I really donโ€™t have a firm understanding of cults either since it seems to be based on the opinion of a person NOT part of the group for the most part.
    On publishing, we only publish L. Ron Hubbardโ€™s works here.
    Well I hope you have made good progress on Dianetics in the past week and had a lovely time besides.
    Best, Elizabeth

    She had sent me a canned Dianetics ad during the week and I said:

    Still checking it out. Will send you my list of questions if that’s ok.
    Thanks!
    Alan

    And she said back:

    Hmm. A list sounds slightly foreboding. But lets see what you have.

    Best, Elizabeth

    • Mark Foster

      Off of the top of my head…I’m thinking that you could ask about the quote from Dianetics in the screen shot down thread…or the bit in Dianetics about a fetus being able to withstand pokes and physical abuse and have a greater ability to heal than a full-grown adult…Or perhaps questions about the tone scale: Where do the numbers come from? Isn’t it possible to feel more than one emotion at a time? Why are there words that don’t describe emotions on the ” emotional tone scale? Is there a public record of the research that allegedly supports the scientific validity of Dianetics? Are there any new studies about the effectiveness of Dianetic therapy? Do practitioners continue to refine and improve its techniques?

      • Good ones! Thanks.

      • Mockingbird

        How about where are the original 270 or so original clears Hubbard claimed in Dianetics ? With the great length and complexity of the tone scale and accompanying information in Science Of Survival Hubbard laid out an exact correspondence between tone level and several medical conditions that always match. He described in great length and specific details how as we age tone and medical States change while linked.

        To scientifically research this would have required thousands of subjects being extensively tested over several decades. At least fifty years or longer would be needed as the scale covers health and tone from birth through death.

        I would love to see the thousands and thousands of files with extensive testing and the reports by the hundreds of doctors and nurses that compiled all the data. It must have been a huge undertaking.

    • Ask her if she ever met a Clear as defined in Dianetics.
      Also, pretty sure at this point she is being OSA coached.

      • Mark Foster

        Good point about the coaching. I’d add that referring to specific quotes in the book when asking questions and refraining from being sarcastic will keep the dialogue going and just MIGHT
        plant some seeds of doubt…

      • Jimmy3

        Good point. I just started following you on disqus.

    • Jimmy3

      Summary:

      1) I saw that same exhibit but I cannot say it is the same because they are supposed to be different
      2) I don’t know if people have been arrested for owning an e-meter because I lack common sense
      3) I don’t know much about cults because only the people outside of my cult call my cult a cult
      4) In this cult I am in, we only publish the works of one single author. I dont know if he ran a cult or not
      5) ps. When I make a joke, I put it in parenthesis to denote that it is a joke

      • Hey, she wasn’t lying about the exhibit, she only saw it at the event on video/dvd, not in real life.

        • Jimmy3

          It’s all the same. They have the permenant one, and they have the traveling one. They have videos and exhibits, but it’s all the same DATA, right?

          • Right. But acceptable truth works and helps PR/OSA people.

  • beauty for ashes

    What it were just one person, a guardian, that held captive a 17 year old, and coerced her into having and abortion in order to keep her job. And spiritual well being. And maintained that belief all under the guise of religion.
    It becomes even more disgusting. Why then aren’t religions held to the same standards of abuse? Why is that religious freedom?

    • SucculentDuck

      yes, agreed! please, can someone show me exactly where I can see this apparent fine line between religious freedom and blatant criminal activity?

  • aquaclara

    Jonny’s reporting here on Belgium and Scientology is terrific. Someone posted a reminder below, but I’ll just add it again here. Great reading, if you’ve missed it.

    https://www.byline.com/project/28/articles

    • Mockingbird

      The tragicomic testimony of the deluded cult members is driving the judge bonkers. Typical Scientological conversations. Judge: Your policy requires this violation of human rights.
      Scientologist: Oh no, we never do that.
      Judge: You just said you do and Hubbard clearly requires it.
      Scientologist: You are taking all those hundreds of quotes out of context. You don’t understand what Scientology is really like.
      Judge: You dumb motherfuckers contradict yourselves and witnesses and prior court rulings and Hubbard’s doctrine constantly. Why can’t you see and admit this is criminal conduct!!?
      Scientologist: I know Scientology is good. I have certainty, I don’t need facts.

  • I hate typos. Especially when they’re mine. Phibs? Really?
    So, now there’s new, improved Ron-B-Gonโ„ข, now with improved branding and 100% fewer typos! Hey, I’m not that great at math, either.

    • Jimmy3

      I liked PHIBS. It was like PHilosophical fibs.

      • Oh, Thrice James, we’ll always have Phibs, won’t we?

        • Jimmy3

          Uncle Artoo, I trust you to remove all semi-colons and semicolons, especially when it is completely necessary.

          • Semicolontology kills.

            • coonellie

              I thought semicolonoscopies were reducing the number of deaths.

      • Observer

        It reminds me of Dr Phibes.

    • SucculentDuck

      these are vertical ounces, correct? awaiting confirmation before i add to cart.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      It’s really good ๐Ÿ™‚

    • coonellie

      I like the one with PHIBS and I’m sticking to it. Reminds me of how old Ron made up words to suit himself.

    • SucculentDuck

      you know, I’ve been thinking about this too much, and I conclude that Phibs might actually be correct. didn’t he have a Ph.D. in phibberish? #LRonic

  • Sid (Phil Jones)

    When you’re on staff all training and auditing is supposed to be free, but if you have the money they will sell you on the idea that you’ll get through it faster if you pay for it. They did that with me when I was on staff years ago. (F5)

    • Tracy Schmitz

      geez, i guess age and wisdom do not necessarily go hand in hand…

    • Ella Raitch

      How long till these two are booted to the curb with a $50 retirement cheque?

      • Mark Foster

        booted to the curb and maybe one piece of supermarket retirement cake to take home,
        but no check…

  • Nat-leficent

    Hey Edna, why have you friendzoned Dale for so long? Is it because of his red face or his matchy matchy shirt pants combo? XD

    • beauty for ashes

      HAAAAAAAAAAh! Dale meanwhile is hoping the survival rundown will be traumatic enough to bring them closer. She’ll finally see him for the great thetan he is. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Royce Harlow

    “It matters only that when Laura was joining the Sea Org, submitting to
    the RPF, and agreeing to an abortion, that she was doing so in agreement
    with the church she belonged to.”

    Why is it necessary to come to an agreement with one’s religious institute to have an abortion? Just this that she had to make an agreement with an institute, that should not have any say in the matter what so ever, about something that is no business but her own says everything needed about the church overstepping their boundaries.

  • Xenu is my Homeboy
  • J. Swift

    Deixler could use his logic in this filing to argue that teenage boys who were raped by priests have no right to sue years or decades later because they could have left the Catholic Church at the time.

    Diexler is basically arguing that minors who were violated by their church were capable of consent and have no right to complain. IMO, this is what the court will zero in on.

    The Church of Scientology puts another nail in its coffin every time one of its lawyers writes something. These legal filings are all open admissions that the Church of Scientology is a brutal cult that places no value whatsoever on human life or the dignity of persons.

    Scientology’s central misunderstanding is that its 501(c)3 status confers blanket permission to harm and destroy people with impunity.

    Deixler and the Church are gasping for air.

    • Jimmy3

      My client may have a black heart, but…

      Just once i want to hear that line of reasoning play out before a jury.

    • 0tessa

      Consigliere Deixler is a master in warped logic, i.e. lawfully correct lying or misrepresenting.

    • Chee Chalker

      I don’t know if this applies in California, but if the time in question is when Laura was 17, but married, she may be considered (legally) an adult. I know in some jurisdictions, when a person is under 18, but married, they are considered an adult.
      No question that when she signed the billion year contract at 12 she was a minor.
      Her attorney will have to focus in on the brain washing which began at 12. And her fear of losing her family.
      Exhibit A? I’d like to draw the court’s attention to this billboard in Hollywood…….

      • Missionary Kid

        IIRC, being married makes her an adult in California law.

    • Jenyfurrrrr

      The fact that he used that argument is disgusting, but when I read it I was glad he did as should be truly enlightening to a judge now. So many other tactics he could have tried but this one should guarantee precious Laura her day in court!

  • Observer

    I bet Slenderman is really Bert Deixler.

  • SucculentDuck

    you can tell by the look on Bag of Douche’s face that even he’s like, “heheh, ya, i’m not sure they’re gonna buy this one, boss”

  • Here is the couple I commented about in reply to Mark below…
    I miss that Duda Dude.

  • Observer

    You know what? I think it’s about time Deixler got a shoop.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Yes!!! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • flyonthewall

      he makes you wanna shoop shoopadoop?

      • Observer

        Oh yes he does

    • MissCandle

      Yes, please, Obs! Two scoops of shoop.

    • Jimmy3

      Please make it Satan telling him how it is in Hell.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        “Okay, so it’s kind of a dry heat and you’ll need to just ignore that screaming….”

        • ze moo

          Ok, coffee break is over…

  • Xenu is my Homeboy

    The latest from Jonny Jacobsen in Belgium

    https://www.byline.com/project/28/article/870

  • nomorescio

    Deixler knows what he’s doing. Morality or what you believe is right do not supersede the law. Influence and coercion are not the same as rape as in the Catholic Church. This is a very tough case.

    • Mrs. V.

      The last I heard, holding someone against their will is against the law, regardless of what you feel is morally right.

      ETA: Although I agree that Deixler knows EXACTLY what he’s doing.

    • Ben Franklin

      Subjecting someone to intense psychological pressure to undergo an abortion is criminal.

    • Joe

      Which is exactly why it should go in front of a jury.

    • Mockingbird

      Deixler has to live with himself. All the money in the world won’t change that for him or Miscavige.

      • Tracy Schmitz

        someone who has no soul, doesn’t worry about where it went or if they need one or ever had one..

        • Mockingbird

          So, in the end what does he have if he has no positive emotions regarding others ? Loneliness ? Emptiness ? Self-loathing ? Frustration at being mortal ?

          No matter how much money he piles up he will end up equal to the rest of us. For someone with no attachment to other people that can be maddening.

  • Missionary Kid

    Here’s another cult group on trial: FLDS and cities being sued http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ff-polygamous-towns-trial-20160302-story.html

    To add: the attorney for the FLDS is using arguments that sound a lot like Drexler’s. They’re both desperate.

    • jazzlover

      OR they’re both very well aware of what they can get away with in U.S. Courts. Hint: its the same thing. Another hint: it’s a result of a major failing of the justice system in this country.

      • Missionary Kid

        The local and state prosecutors weren’t going to take them to court, so this is the Feds.

        • jazzlover

          Exactly. The sometimes blind and inflexible loyalty to the founding principles of the Constitution at the expense of the safety of our citizenship is a problem.

          • Missionary Kid

            The problem is not that they have inflexible loyalty to the founding principles of the Constitution, but they misinterpret them because of what seems to be a general misinterpretation of those principles, all based on both mainstream Mormon and the annotations of an unqualified interpreter of the Constitution.

            The fact that many of the writers of the Constitution were deists, and not necessarily Christians has escaped them, Jefferson, in particular, and most of them in general, who were definitely not of the fundamentalist type that they like to portray them as.

            • jazzlover

              I think the inflexibility is multi-faceted. There is a somewhat belligerent belief that we should “leave with the date who brung us” at every turn. I’m not the type to beat this to death, but look at the continued existence of the tobacco industry in the USA. Of course, there is huge tax revenue that comes from tobacco sales. Of course, there are huge kick-backs that the industry pays to politicos. I think there’s a third reason that relates to what I’ve stated above. One of the industries that this country was founded on is the tobacco industry. To those who get to make such decisions, to kill it now would be blasphemy. A blasphemy associated with denying our past, denying who we are, and denying what contributed to building this country up to where it is today. All common sense says, tobacco should go. Instead, the consumer is constantly blamed for a multitude of things. Think about it.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              well said, well said..

            • Missionary Kid

              The same thing goes for the energy industries. They were basically founded here in the U.S., and, with the oil depletion allowance, we support their profits. It subsidizes them, just like the tax deduction for donations to $cientology gives them subsidizes.

            • jazzlover

              Agreed, but Scientology doesn’t fit the original ideology surrounding what North America provided to those leaving England because of religious persecution. All it does is point out that we are (sometimes) inexplicably tied to the protection of religious rights to a fault. The problem is that nowhere in the Constitution are instructions given on how to determine what a religion actually is. Given that job has fallen on the IRS, it’s safe to say that we remain as clueless as ever and that it is and always will be about the money. In essence then, our stubborn connection to the concept of freedom of religion often translates into a license to abuse both our country and our citizens. THESE things should not be happening, and again, result from our refusal to adapt and make necessary changes in our interpretation (as you say) of the Constitution and our founding principles in order to protect those who live here. It should be clear to anyone here what really is to blame for the continued existence of an organization as evil as Scientology. The feeling of let-down runs much deeper than disappointment over the fact that a criminal like L Ron was allowed to operate as he did scott-free and safe from repercussion. At the heart of it all, I’m flabbergasted that something like that could happen here.

            • From an outsiders (UK) viewpoint that is precisely the problem. That, and the fact that religion is impossible to define.

              Whatever criteria you choose to define religion, you can find a religion which does not include them, or actively denies them. Most flavours or Buddhism does not have a deity, Daoisim does not have an afterlife either and Yoruba (the world religion which nobody in the west has heard of) breaks almost all of the (Western) rules.

              My definition would take a different tack. A religion would be any belief system which cannot be demonstrated or falsified in principle. If people believe something for which there is no evidence, or beleive in the teeth of contrary evidence and the matter can never be settled by scientific investigation that’s a religion. If they claim that they know the truth through a subjective experience which is unavailable to non-believers, that’s a religious belief.

              With the best intentions, the first amendment set up an immunity for people who choose to believe things for which there is no objective or rational basis, and to act upon those beliefs even when they affect others. If you have an irrational adgenda, all you have to do is call it a religion and show that you have followers and you are protected from the law.

              It’s astonishing that more people don’t do this more often.

            • jazzlover

              Totally agree. However, I’m not so sure that there AREN’T thousands more that we haven’t heard about. The real underlying problem is that religious protection is firmly connected to money. Change THAT and scientology couldn’t possibly exist. That may be the only way since the IRS has such a difficult time not only defining religion, but also defining what real charity is.

            • UK law has less of a problem with this issue as tax concessions come with charitable status. To obtain this, you have to show a social benefit which is freely available without charge – and there are complex and fair rules, built up over the years, which define exactly what you have to do to qualify.

              With no blanket prohibition against regulating religious organisations these provisions are more likely to be enforced, too – the CofS itself was refused chartiable status in 1999 in such a definitive decision that even they did not bother to appeal.

              Of course, the weaseled their way out of paying UK tax in another way – but have never been able to achieve the coveted status of a charitable organisation and the prestige that comes with it.

              I think that Scientology is exquisitly well-adapted to exploit the badly drafted religious provision of the US first amendement and this is why is does not prosper in other countries to the same extent.

            • jazzlover

              Which leads us back to why I stated that adherence to moronic centuries-old principles will bite us on the ass time and time again ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Tracy Schmitz

              i don’t even know if it’s that. it’s almost like they don’t KNOW how to or don’t WANT to interpret the constitution! either their incompetent, stupid and lazy, or bribed..

            • Missionary Kid

              They just want the Constitution to be interpreted their way. They have no tolerance for any other way.

            • ReallyMGM

              History is being erased from our schools. Our founding fathers were by in large deist, as MK says, as that was the Age of Enlightenment. It doesn’t take much reading to learn all about it and the beliefs of Franlin and Jeffferson, to learn where they stood in their beliefs. This has been removed from our school books, so kids never learn it unless they are in a world history class in a major university. They still might know if they sleep through that day of class.

            • Missionary Kid

              For anyone who wants to claim that the US is a Christian nation, it would be good to have them read the Jefferson bible, or Thomas Paine, or a lot of Franklin’s writings.

              It’s truly ironic that the phrase “separation of church and state” was used to defend Baptists, who were a religious minority, persecuted because their beliefs didn’t match those of the leaders of the state government they were in.

  • Kim O’Brien

    I sure hope that ex …one of the men who actually DROVE these girls to planned parenthood ….( i think Tony wrote about him ) Gee ..gosh golly , i sure hope HE testifies to help Laura . Probably not . But i can hope .

    • Jimmy3

      Can I take you out to dinner? I have a coupon for Arby’s.

      • Jimmy3

        but we can go anywhere you want. I wasn’t trying to limit your options.

        • Kim O’Brien

          i might be easy …but i am not cheap . Applebee’s baby . I am super classy

          • Jimmy3

            Anything you want. If some poor schmuck there tells us they don’t have Bloomin’ Onions at Applebees, The One True Catholic God help him…

            • Kim O’Brien

              onions are evil . Pretty sure that is in the bible . Stuck somewhere between cloven hooves and talking snakes . Almost positive that chicken wings are blessed though . I seem to remember something about ” blessed are the chickens , and their wings . Blessed are the buffalo’s ..and their wings ..”

              something like that . I might be paraphrasing .

            • Jimmy3

              I know of magical wings around here, and I’m sure they cater. Or at least fill catering orders.. This has actually been a productive conversation. Good ideas, good flows.

    • “Gee ..gosh golly” o_O ?! Where is our Kim and what have you done with her??? Such words would not normally come from her fingers! It’d be “He best have the balls to go to court and fucking tell the truth.” Blink twice if you need help Kim!!

      • Jimmy3

        I will help her. Free curly fries with any purchase of $5 or more.

        • So so kind of you! ๐Ÿ™‚

        • beauty for ashes

          Curly fries and a Vanilla shake from Arby’s is magically helpful. Maybe some others may not understand that , but I do James.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i was TRYING to clean up my language and delivery …;) but you are right . That fucker better drag his ass to court and man up .

        • fuck that!!! clean up your language for chirruns, official business, and elderly you don’t know! ๐Ÿ˜€ be yourself—let the words flow! i read on the bbc today that swearing is GOOD FOR YOU!!! so for fuck’s sake FUCKING SWEAR cuz it’s healthy! ๐Ÿ˜€

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Wonderful to hear. I’d like to express my feelings about today’s filing:

            Fffffuuuuucccccccckkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!

            • FUCK YEAH!!!

              Fuck that shit! Fuck them and fuck their games! Fuck that smarmy grease stain infected anal wart attorney! Fuck the midget pope! FUCK ANYONE WHO FUCKS OVER OTHERS WHILST IN A POSITION OF POWER!!!!!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)
            • JaxNGold

              Hysterical! I think I watched that for three minutes straight ..laughing the whole time.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Gary Morehead from Int Base security talks about how they coerce women to have the abortion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulNwZjPamTI

      But I swear I have seen a video with the guy who used to drive the bus to various different clinics.

      There is also this good article from the Tampa Bay Times. http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/no-kids-allowed/1101759

      • Kim O’Brien

        yeah …THAT fucking sack of shit . And i would love to wipe that fucking smirk off of his fat ass fucking face . I am just SEETHING …watching that fat fuck of a man , smirk his way through an interview . ZERO self reflection . ZERO .

        nothing like a MAN ..a fat sack of shit man …telling stories about forcing women to have abortions . With a smirk on his face .

        fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck………!!!!!!!!!……….

        • THERE you are!!! ๐Ÿ˜€ nice to fucking see ya!

        • Dee Findlay-DeElizabethan

          Kim, join me in a cheers drink if you drink at all. Lots of love your way and I feel with you.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    I needed to distract myself from the roiling boiling seething anger
    I feel when i have to face the insanity and cruelty of Laura’s case.

    A new vid for your viewing pleasure – Billboard Magic.
    Enjoy ๐Ÿ™‚

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTkfteHc914

    • Yes.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Talk about perfect casting. *shudder* That guy is genuinely frightening.

        • He is frightening and hilarious at the same time to me.
          Eta: The actor is probably a very nice guy, good father and husband in real life,
          but the nature/universe being the ironic assholes they are gave him a perfect appearance
          for a dead eyed nazi dude who doesn’t even get to say anything, yet dumb and scary as fuck.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Xenu in a manger!

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      ..

    • EnthralledObserver

      “In more pieces than Jack F&%#$@g Parsons” LOL!

    • 3feetback-of-COS

      this always cracks me up. Wonderful!!

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      ROFL

    • Kim O’Brien

      LOL

    • Kim O’Brien

      ” you will still find parking …i promise ”

      i almost peed a little

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      Quahogs !

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Oh, dear. I need to apologise to everyone, or at least those who were awake at around 2am my time a couple of mornings ago when THDNE posted a link to the ASA judgement about the Volunteer Minister advert being banned in the UK. I immediately assumed it was as a result of the quiet campaign run by Once_Born, and said as much. It’s so exciting when something you’ve been involved with comes to fruition. However, I’ve since read a comment from O_B where he clarifies that this related to a TV advert as opposed to the print ads we complained about. I’m very sorry. Having said that, it is still the case that O_B is an excellent, efficient campaign manager who I would back if he was running for Parliament ๐Ÿ™‚

    PS. Thank you to the person or people who complained about the TV ad. All credit goes to you.

    • beauty for ashes

      You’re even adorable when you apologize Bets. Lookah da puppeh!!!! F5

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Argh, that puppy is making me broody! It looks so embarrassed and I do love an embarrassed dog ๐Ÿ™‚

        • beauty for ashes

          Really I think we could all do with a look at an adorable puppy or too today. Maybe some jumping baby goats. ๐Ÿ™‚ And lots of Fly, JImmy3 and Nat non sequiters .

          • OOkpik
            • Robert Eckert

              That one goat on the left is going nope-nope-nope-nope-nope

            • beauty for ashes

              I have watched this before and I will watch it again! Thanks Ookie!

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      *smooches*

    • At the time all this was going down, I was helping a friend who, is buidling a kitchen extension, by filling a skip with rubble. At the same time, there were three posts in one day which I followed from a tablet connected to a tiny keyboard. I missed a lot and things got confused.

      Thing is, I didn’t see the TV ad because I have not owned a TV for 20-odd years. It was probably an extract from the video we complained about when it appeared online, which turned out not to be covered by the ASA because of where it was hosted. That complaint would have suceeded if it had been a TV advert, and the person who did make that complaint seems to have used the same grounds. So near, and yet so far.

      It wasn’t all in vain though. The ASA initially undertake an informal investigation into a complaint. They try to settle the matter by perusading the advertiser to withdraw or revise a questionable ad. They only escalate to a formal investigation (which has greater powers) when the advertiser is uncooperative or prove themselves untrustworthy.

      This is what happened to our “New Statesman’ complaint. After an informal investigation, the CofS withdrew the ad, and promised not to repeat specific claims.

      It could be that, when the complaint about the TV ad came in, the ASA checked their records, found that the CofS had broken their promise and repeated those same claims. Consequently, they opened with a formal investigation that had the power to ban the ad – and did. We could have given the anonymous person(s) who complained about the TV ad the power to deliver the death blow (a ban) rather than just obtain a retraction.

      If anyone sees any UK press or TV ads or even get given a handbill in the street, please tell me about it. I want to be in on the kill, the next time.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        “I want to be in on the kill, the next time.”

        Ditto! I would like you to organise me to be in on the kill next time ๐Ÿ˜€

        And now we have contact details for lots more UK Bunkerites than we did at the start of 2015. Bless you for helping your friend. Thanks, O_B.

        • No blessing neccessary. He buys me curry. Good curry.

          I’ve been busy lately. Not so much now. Perhaps its time to look for some new vulnerabilites…

        • PS

          If anyone sees any UK advertisements which mention ‘Volunteer Ministers’ please pass them on.

          If the CofS gets caught again, making the same claims in any form, the Advertising Standards Authority has the power to escalate their response still further. Ultimately, they can require advertisers to submit all of their copy to the ASA for approval before publication.

          Whenever they make a public claim about VMs in the UK they can be hammered. Please keep an eye out for these and tell me about them.

  • Jimmy3

    Oh, shit. I have to restract several of my comments from all over the blorgosphere. Apparently Once_Bourne is NOT actually Jason Bourne, and he is NOT a member of UK’s Parliament.

    But we still love him.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      ๐Ÿ˜›

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      So what are you telling me J3? He’s not really a ninja?

      I’m sorry, I refuse to believe that. What’s true for me. ๐Ÿ˜›

      • Jimmy3

        I NEVER SAID THAT!! I WILL SUE YOU IN ENGLAND!!!!

        I only meant that he is a different ninja. That’s all.

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          I WILL SUE YOU IN AUSTRALIA!!

          Oh, we agree….never mind. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • It’s okay. We all were once born.

      • Jimmy3

        Tell them about the time you were nice to me.

        • You and Daisy need to leave me alone. I am happily married now.

          • Jimmy3

            *sigh* We’ll always have that night…

            • Observer
            • beauty for ashes

              OMG I haven’t heard this in ages!!!!!!!

            • Oh wow, I forgot about this song.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              *hangs head*

              I liked this song in the 80’s. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Observer

              Me too.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              In my defense, it was always the beat and not so much the words that I liked. So many “getting ready to go out evenings” where this song was on, dancing around my bedroom. Good times. ๐Ÿ˜€

            • I didn’t even speak English in the 80’s and 90’s. It was all about the beat.

            • beauty for ashes

              I have to say now, I had NO idea what this song was about though! I don’t remember it being so morose. I guess kids filter things out that they don’t understand.

            • Observer

              I was in my early 20s, so no filtering. lol

            • I still have no idea what this song is about.

            • Robert Eckert

              you are very lucky.

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Me, too! (Psst! Still do, in a nostalgic stylee.)

            • Kim O’Brien

              i really hated the fact that when i was in Bangkok …this song kept running through my head . Not kidding …it really sucked .

  • Phatpharm

    Good to know Scientology is trying to step up the religious practice of marrying off your 13 year old daughter to some creepy 40 year old man is “protected” under the 1st Amendment. I mean when your raised by Warren Jeffs teaching and don’t know it’s wrong… Well that young girl thought it was okay at the time. That’s the women’s place at the compound. It’s our religious teaching. Treating people like trash is protected. Not letting them leave without harassment is protected. What kind of person thinks representing this horribleness is okay. I just don’t know how people can sleep.

  • Observer

    refresh
    .

    • flyonthewall

      *shiver*

    • Jimmy3

      This is a court exhibit some day. Mark it down.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Horrifying and perfect. ๐Ÿ‘

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      You were right: Bert Deixler makes the perfect Slenderman.

    • The truth is even scarier.

      • Observer

        I believe it.

    • beauty for ashes

      Whoah that’s terrifying and effective. Like a gut punch.

    • Frodis73

      This should be printed out and mailed to that asshole.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Or to the judge…

    • no twitter for him or his law firm, so i just sent it out to the general twitterverse….

      https://twitter.com/misstia/status/705541147855159296

    • Robert Eckert

      “YOU’RE scared? I’m the one who’s going to have to walk back alone!”

      • Jenyfurrrrr

        Ha! Now THAT is a perfect example of CO$lime!

  • Snake Plissken

    Anyone here graduate from Trump University?

    I listened to a Trump University review on Youtube , it sounded awfully similar to what the cult makes people say to get one of those oversized and overpriced certificates

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWQD0QPQs3M

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      I’d never even heard of “Trump University” until this lawsuit. Seriously people, if we’re going to put something in office that hasn’t been relevant since the 80’s then I vote neon colors and Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

      • Observer

        Something tells me I’m better off with my high-school education than I would be with a “degree” from “Trump University”.

      • ze moo

        It is/was a scam. The Donald just loaned his name to the UNIV and raked in the kick backs. The appellation ‘scammer’ has been leveled at Donald Dumfph, that is too kind.

      • RELAX!!!!

    • Robert Eckert

      This afternoon Trump was using the existence of these success stories as evidence that the fraud suit against Trump University was baseless.

      • Observer

        Gee, that sounds awfully familiar. Where have I heard it before…?

        • Robert Eckert

          And once you paid for the introductory courses that would teach you all the secrets, you started being regged for more courses that would teach you the real real secrets.

  • nottrue

    LRH the great man or insane ……How a religion evolved out of this crap is mind boggling….Jenna Elfman ” read a book ” …..Dianetics P. 90………The worst footbullet for scientology is Dianetics the book..I don’t think anybody really reads it. They just look at the volcano and go OOOOWWWA, ….And to disconnect from loved ones to defend this..Well Im done now

    • beauty for ashes

      Real Sciency Lron! SMDH!

  • JOE BLOW

    f5

    • shouldn’t that card have a shit stain?

    • Lucille Austero

      Hey! He left off his telex number. Now how will I get ahold of him?

  • Lousy Ratatouille

    I think Bert Deixler qualifies as a tough cult lawyer(^%$!!), so he probably won’t be cut out, like Tom in the Godfather:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f7ln_al3qo

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Bert would have to climb out of the gutter, up the curb and lean against a trash can just to sniff Tom Hagen’s shoes.

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Australian journalist, Bryan Seymour, posted this to Facebook yesterday in reference to a new article in “Adelaide Now” – http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/ukbased-church-of-scientology-religious-education-college-inc-registered-as-charity-in-adelaide/news-story/292436d3826b9360f16e6db9829e6f7b

    “Six years after I broke this story, Scientology is still avoiding paying tax in the UK by basing it’s governing body on the other side of the world in South Australia!” – Bryan Seymour

    ETA: In the new article in Adelaide Now:

    According to financial statements lodged with the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission, it made ยฃ10,805,637 (about AUD $21 million) in 2014 and ยฃ12,535,163 (about $24 million) in 2013.

    That a relatively small entity is still able to rake in such colossal sums is staggering.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Bryan’s original coverage:

      https://youtu.be/3I9FwpGUK4g

      • Dice

        I grabbed this face F5 he he!

        • Poor asshole.

          • no, dodo, i’m really sure that’s his face, not his asshole….

            ๐Ÿ˜€

            • Sejanus

              I dunno, some fairly disgusting shit has come out of it pretty often.

          • Sejanus

            Trustfund asshole.

        • Sejanus

          It mystifies me everytime that pinchfaced git is described as being handsome.
          I jusy do not see anything other than a yaks shaved ass always scowling and trying to look tough.

      • Aslan’s Own

        I love those Australian accents!

    • ze moo

      As the ‘governing body’ for $cientology in the UK is in Australia, is that figure for Australia and the UK?

  • So like if a kid is put into a sweatshop at 6 years old then he’s not allowed to sue the sweatshop or report them to the police because he was complicit in his own abuse? Say what?

    • flyonthewall

      not if it’s the Church of Nike

      • Kim O’Brien

        or Apple

    • aegerprimo

      Required reading in USA public school used to be Upton Sinclair’ s book “The Jungle”.
      (I read it and still joined a cult, you know which cult.) Makes me embarrassed really, because I can read, and have always been a reader.

    • Sunny

      I can’t tell you how many times I screamed “let me out!!!!” as a child growing up in the Sea Org. I finally gave up and joined. What choice did I have?

      • Same here. It was ridiculous they way they followed me and even kidnapped me during the recruiting process for the Sea Org. They broke me down to the point that I just gave in and signed the contract because it felt like my only option. If only we could figure out a way to raise kids in a way that the choices of their parents don’t override the choices of the kids.

  • If you’re gonna abuse them, better start young because that way they won’t know that there is such a thing as “not being abused” and you can avoid having to feel guilt or answer for your abusive activities. — Bert Dixhead

  • Anonzy

    Sea org explained

    • I will upvote almost anything with Christoph Waltz.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        That’s a Bingo!

  • nottrue

    JAW keeps ducking the TV AD ban…Not in Freedumb Mag yet I guess

    • If JAW and Kirstie is all OSA got on Twitter, yeah…

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Oh JAW, you keep parroting the “falsehoods” line yet your cult (who sues everyone) hasn’t sued anyone over these alleged falsehoods….hmmm, wonder why??

    • Observer

      I especially like the butthurt hashtag

    • aegerprimo

      #butthurt โ™ฅโ™ฅโ™ฅ

  • Dice

    If you see this one on twitter F5 it’s the campaign from this MonsterFunder, they chosen this picture on their own but i have asked them to change it to the billboard picture as it kinda a meme for this funding and not the little girl. I also got them to do another twitter round with the billboard picture!

    • Dice

      I have no idea if this have any impact at all but it looks like the funding is still going on from all kind people and the funding is still going on F5
      Phil made an update 7 hours ago if you haven’t seen it : https://www.gofundme.com/reconnectingfamily

      • Stup donatin peple! The gol is reached already.

        • Dice

          Think like DM think ๐Ÿ™‚

          • If IRS tech won’t do it, Billboard tech might.

        • Robert Eckert

          But we need to upgrade our status!

          • Ella Raitch

            Good point – Phil are you keeping a running total of our donations so you can give us gaudy trophies?

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          Dodo, we’re keeping it open to try to maintain the billboard staying up as long as possible. We also have to cover 8% in gofundme fees we hadn’t taken into account. We’ve got the 3 months covered but would like to see it longer if we can.

    • Dice

      Oxford don’t like Hubsy either F5

  • MostEthicalPimp

    Anyone who buys this argument for a second should look up one word related to manpulation: grooming

    • Also, Commodore’s Messengers.

    • ze moo

      Gas-lighting……

  • JOE BLOW

    Daddy, how do you make money?

    I am a lawyer for a hateful, bigoted, corrupt, criminal religious cult sweetheart.

    Why Daddy?

    See all those toys over there?

    Yes Daddy.

    See the big house we live in?

    Yes Daddy.

    See all of Mommy’s new shoes?

    Yes Daddy.

    Any other questions sweetheart?

    • Dice

      Where is mom Dad?

  • SucculentDuck

    I found some surveillance footage, possibly from the RPF, that might come in handy as Exhibit B supporting Dickslapper’s “No Complaints, No Abuse” defense.
    eta: “quite simply, your honor, these men were free to leave … any time they chose to do so. or, they could’ve called their mothers.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNMjZpSbnU

  • Tony said he might take a day off today, but no, he can’t keep his word. #Merchant of Chaos

  • stillgrace2

    I experienced so many levels of SAD seeing the picture of the elderly couple clutching their survival rundown materials. This won’t end well. Shame on you, sciloons!

  • aegerprimo

    If a child grows up in an abusive environment, it is all he/she knows.

    Co$ argument is invalid but leave it to this “church” to make such an argument in court.

    Itโ€™s not abuse if you donโ€™t complain when itโ€™s happening.

    Ugh, I can’t even.

    • Allie

      His statement – how demeaning, disgusting, sadistic, shallow, sick and unethical
      OK, it’s just too infuriating for me to find the right words. **stomps off in a rage”

  • flyonthewall

    u didnt see nothin

    • SucculentDuck

      dang, they removed Nibs from this scene, too???

      • flyonthewall

        ISWYDT. That was a good vid

    • aegerprimo

      Pink legs?

      He doesnโ€™t have to know all the bad news and if heโ€™s a power really, he wonโ€™t ask all the time, โ€œWhat are all those dead bodies doing at the door?โ€ And if you are clever, you never let it be thought HE killed them โ€” that weakens you and also hurts the power source. โ€œWell, boss, about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didnโ€™t like me.โ€

      The โ€œEthicsโ€ of Political Power: Scientologyโ€™s Worship of Ruthlessness
      http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/21/the-ethics-of-political-power-scientologys-worship-of-ruthlessness/

  • sashiebgood

    the option to forego child rearing in other religious order situations is also usually accompanied by a vow of celibacy. one of the insidious things about this cult is that they encourage “2D” but then spit on the results of it. to have teenagers living in groups and tell them they can’t have sex until they’re married and then expect them to not get pregnant is a joke. particularly since from what most people who grew up in the church or SO say, they are not provided with any information about birth control, and even if they were, most of them could not afford it on a SO (or staff) pay. it’s like Catholics in the 1950’s! The amount of confusion and devastation that surrounds the whole topic of 2D in this organization is mind bending. and that is why I think it would never occur to Laura or the other women who this happened to that she had been subjugated until several years after leaving, because she was never taught a healthy way of looking at relationships, children and family as a whole.. Divorce is a routine practice, abortion is a routine practice (though hopefully not anymore) – a normal sex life with the ability to make decisions about sexual health and children are not options.
    I really wish that the byzantine “2D rules” of scientology would be explained to the judge (and not by Deixler who would lie through his teeth) so that he could appreciate what a minefield it is for a 17 year old to attempt to navigate and how clearly different it is from other religious orders that place restrictions on sexuality and child rearing.

    • Supper Powers

      Good points.

    • I see your point – it appears to be a mad way of doing things. However, as with so many other things in Scientology it endures because it is functional.

      If you put people in that position they are going to break the rules and feel guilty about it – which is a method of control. The victims are always on the back foot and constantly distracted from the question of whether ‘ethics’ even has the right to treat them in the way that they do. In the grip of such powerful feelings, they just don’t have the psychological resources to question their situation as well.

      Also, sexual behaviour is a great source of material for blackmail, and the CofS has the power to ‘persuade’ others to condemn anyone who does not conform.

  • Observer

    Camelot Castle Hotel review

    F5

    • salin

      Witness the ‘media empire’. The Street report on his gambling on Trump being elected referred to their media (I don’t think they said empire – that’s Mappin – but the references suggested that the Mappin’s business included media outlets.) The “newspaper”, the poetry in the lounge, and the newly launched “TV” (you tube videos that fawn over a presidential candidate in another country).

      Mappins = performance art/interpretative dance of the definition of the word absurd.

      • I believe Mappin was once involved with an advertising-supported ‘newspaper’ which was given away. Its gimmick was that it contained only ‘good news’. It collapsed after the Internet took away that kind of advertising.

        Journalists who don’t check their facts much, might be taken in by this kind of history and claims about his ‘studio’ facilities. Shame on “The Street” for using that kind of journalist.

        The story should have included the passage, “This character owns a few high end still cameras that can shoot video, and think that makes him a media mogul. His efforts in this field have actually been small scale failures, which he could only undertake in the first place because of access to family money”

        It would have been a better story, as well as being true.

    • Frodis73

      I love these first hand accounts…they are unreal and always good for a laugh.

  • EnthralledObserver
    • flyonthewall

      I love that at the end, “Working non-stop…ok thank you.” lol, smh

  • Bob Crouch

    Deixler makes a very telling statement about how Laura could have gotten out: “She could have not returned from her various travels away from Los Angeles.”

    In other words, she could have escaped.

  • This blog will be closed on Friday.

  • Bob Crouch

    I bet Deixler is very persuasive in defending spouse abusers. He is obviously a big proponent of the “But she came back–it’s her own fault” defense!

  • Frodis73

    Does anybody know who this guy is?? His book sounds interesting (except for the parts about the cia and scientology controlling the usa). lol
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/162fmQQPauCmCiJynOh1vmahs91LJhevzZMK0LHjfmTE/edit

    • jazzlover

      Your parenthetical statement should tell you all you need to know. I got a semi-creepy feeling reading even his most benign passages. He is operating on the fringe.

      • Frodis73

        Definitely a nut, but if he really was in, it seems he was in during interesting times and witnessed some odd events. His conspiracy stuff reminds me of Merril and that other whack job (drawing a blank on his name).

        • salin

          Mike McClaughry?

          • Frodis73

            He wasn’t the exact whacko I was thinking of, but he qualifies. The other guy is a public scion and he posts on fb a lot…he was posting in the danny masterson (that interview where he swears a lot) story a lot. Larry Bryne…something like that.
            Isn’t it funny that there are so few sci’s that we know so many of them by name and or sight? Plus we discuss them and their lives online…they are so clueless.

  • Sherbet

    From Mike Rinder’s blog: A flyer about the volunteer help at the Tampa org, sorting through paper files. It said they got 45 volunteers and 150 hours of volunteer work. Big deal. Do the math.

  • Zeruel (Sebastian)

    OT, ICYMI: In less than 24 hours, the CBC’s the fifth estate will finally air its investigation into the Genesis II Church, which is actively selling its Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) in Canada despite the substance being banned by the health regulators up north. I regard the Genesis II Church the same adversarial terms that Tony may regard Scientology, and I take their abuse of autistic children very personally. So I am pleased to the extreme that I played a big role in the story that is airing in Canada tomorrow night.

    As some of you might remember, Jim Humble claims to be a former Scientologist. While there is no proof this is true — I e-mailed Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, even Karin Pouw — Humble’s church did rip off Scientology’s idea of a payment plan for his “miracle cure.” Tony has said that Humble’s operation and Scientology have little to do with each other, and that’s probably true. But it is what caused me to step forward from the lurking shadows and interact with, in my opinion, you fine people.

    • My friends’ grandson is 13 years old and ‘on the spectrum’. He’s a great kid, with a very clear idea of what is fair and unfair (and a very low tolerance of the latter). He’s a good person who has problems with crowds and with understanding some social interactions. He’s fine as he is.

      The notion of some idiot making him drink bleach to ‘cure’ him is… unacceptable – as in ‘I would do whatever it took to stop it happening immediately and permanently’.

      Well done.

  • salin

    ot/oh my – something happened in a US presidential debate that I never could have imagined. The insult fest has gone so far to get to penis size references. Rubio dives in with the inferential reference, Donald responds. This is what political discourse has become? Nothing but ‘your momma’ type insults? But now replace ‘your momma’ with your private parts?

    I am mortified. This is what discourse has devolved to. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/donald-trump-penis-size. Ever wondered if the crassness of DM became mainstream conversation? He gets no credit, but here we are.

    • Frodis73

      Speaking of…I thought of you, and others here when I read this article. It’s very interesting…a bit long, but well worth the read…scary.

      The rise of American authoritarianism
      http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism
      ETA-Link fixed

      • salin

        I can’t load the page. I have to sign off for the night, but will try to look up by the title of the article, tomorrow.

        As an educator who has worked with middle school and high school aged kids. How do we prevent stupid and distracting conversations/insult fests among students, which start spontaneously, but are worthless contributions to classroom time and take time away from learning time, when those running for the highest office in the country don’t talk about substantive issues but instead are engaged in the same juvenile insult fests? References to penis size? Really? A two for – Crass and substance-less.

        • Frodis73

          I know right? It’s like a dream…if you would have told me that this was going to happen 10 years, I would have said no way. the story is on the vox site. I just noticed the stupid formatting is messed up…I’ll fix it.
          eta- fixed link
          You are right about kids btw, this is setting a horrible example and will normalize it. Things will only get worse. It’s a shame. I am ashamed.

        • SarahDB

          What do you say to a third grader who is afraid that if Trump wins he and his family will be kicked out of the US?

          • salin

            What a heart-breaking question. I have no words.

    • Kim O’Brien

      i was watching ..still watching ..and i FREAKED OUT when the penis size thing happened. OMG …what a flat out horrid disgrace . i just can’t even .

    • Robert Eckert

      TPM linked onward to this story, another example of the level the Republican party is sinking to:
      http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/robert-morrow-travis-county-gop

      • Frodis73

        HOLY SHIT! I am stunned, seriously. That is fubar!!

        • Robert Eckert

          If you hung out on less polite boards than this one, you’d run into versions of this jerk all over the place.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Geez, their party is really swirling the toilet bowl isn’t it? SMH

        • Robert Eckert

          I particularly enjoyed: ‘In response to Mackowiak’s efforts to remove him, Morrow called his vice-chair “a douchebag” and told the Tribune to “Tell them they can go fuck themselves.” ‘

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Klassy!!

  • Aslan’s Own

    I took down the picture of the 10 year old girl who had completed the “purif” at the Tampa Org (ugh) because I figured it wasn’t right to post it. Another picture on their FB page shows a 6 year old girl who completed the Volunteer Minister course….. Plus pictures of several more “senior scientologists” that are on staff…. ๐Ÿ™

    • salin

      Tears.

    • Frodis73

      Sick.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      The last gasps of a dying cult Aslan. Take comfort in knowing that if they had anything else to show, they would. They’re going out with a sad whimper.

      I know, it doesn’t make those feelings go away. I want to throw daggers at them for doing that to kids too.

      • Aslan’s Own

        Lots of pics of 20-30 year olds, but seeing the kids and the really old people made me sad. I posted this somewhere on this page last night, but there’s a picture of poor Edna celebrating her 80th birthday in 2013, which makes her 83 now and on staff for 23 years. Just sad.

  • Vanfan

    Jeopardy tonight. Category “Non Fiction” – Clue-“The Modern Science of Mental Health” is the subtitle of this L. Ron Hubbard work.

    • Vanfan

      Had to double take the category

    • chukicita

      I saw this as well… what the hell for $1000, Alex?

    • Newiga

      I don’t know how to play Jeopardy (never seen an episode) but does this work: “I’ll take faux-scientific BS for $1000, Alex.”?

  • Kay

    So, I just logged on and am already nauseated. The aboveforementioned logic is unfortunately congruent with the logic that if you are not “complaining” while being raped, it wasn’t rape ? No hell hot enough…….truly

    • So Kay,
      If you want to catalog or hear some thoughts…
      When I was (it was per letters 1967 so I was born in Aug 52 = 14 because it was in Jun). Hugs, Cece

  • Missionary Kid
    • Liberated

      I think it fits too.

  • Ella Raitch

    Tony promised a good one for Friday which is saying something after the last few days. When does daylight savings finish (so I can go back to a 7pm start….. less waiting and more chat time)?

    • Narapoid

      March 13 Ella, then the world goes back as it should.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Yes! Thank you. I HATE setting the clocks back. I adjust to it (sort of) but never feel quite right until we “spring them” forward.

        • PickAnotherID

          I wish they would just stay on DST all year. I hate it when it’s pitch black at 5pm, and It would save a lot of energy too.

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Same here. I’ve literally asked my Dr. if there is a reason why I only feel “right” at that time and he said yep…you like sunlight. LOL Smart-ass. I do really wish we’d ditch it though. Why did we even start doing it in the first place??

            • PickAnotherID

              World War I primarily.

            • madge filpot

              back in the day.. when the farmers needed more light for working their fields.

            • sashiebgood

              http://youtu.be/br0NW9ufUUw

              John Oliver explains…

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Thank you love. Link saved. I will check that out when my Mom-taxi duties are over. ๐Ÿ˜€

            • sashiebgood

              Welcome! Have a great day!

            • Draco

              I agree 100% with him!
              Could never figure out what the purpose was. Especially in our modern world when so much goes on 24/7.

        • Draco

          We don’t do daylight saving in SA. We always have lots of daylight summer and winter ๐Ÿ˜€

          But from March 13 at least I can log on at 1pm instead of 2pm to get my daily Bunker Fix!
          Just realized that’s also elron’s birthday ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

            Save me a room for after the elections Draco. I may need it. ๐Ÿ˜€

            • Draco

              Heh! If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I would LOVE to have you stay. We could do a road trip!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              If I’m ever way over there, I’m coming right to you cause I’ll be lost as hell. LOL

            • Draco

              :))

        • Bavarian Rage

          I live in Saskatchewan – a province in the middle of Canada. We’re one of approx. 2-3 places (maybe more) in North America which don’t observe daylight savings time. Way better IMHO – I lived with both.

        • Observer

          I’m the opposite. Losing that hour of sleep kills me, and my internal clock is screwed up for at least a week. I don’t mind the dark.

    • EnthralledObserver

      Hear hear! I have to wait until 10pm… can’t wait until it’s back to 9pm…

      • Draco

        Oh my – that’s hard. That’s my bedtime on week nights, so I would miss out on all the chatter. And by the time you can log on, everybody has already said what the wanted to say and are now posting videos while they wait for the next post. Sucks to have such a huge time difference. At least mine is only 6 hours.

        • EnthralledObserver

          Yep, it is hard. I used to wait until morning… but I’m addicted now, and can’t for the life of me resist. It’s worse when people engage with my comments because then the hours disappear and I sometimes don’t get to bed until after midnight.
          So… oddly enough… it’s a good thing when people ignore me… haha.

          • Draco

            “It’s worse when people engage with my comments because then the hours disappear and I sometimes don’t get to bed until after midnight.”
            Haha! That is so me too! Sometimes just before going to bed, I just check in to see who is saying what … so stoopid.

  • 9001

    Deixler argues that Laura today cannot sue over things she felt were reasonable when they were actually happening.
    Noticed something relevant to this in the GOP debate. According to the courts, “victims of con artists often sing the praises of their victimizers until the moment they realize they have been fleeced.”

  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

    Morning all. I’ll put the coffee on. Tony, if you’re still sleeping…….I don’t blame you. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Ella Raitch

      We’re we warned about a potentially late article? It’s been hard to keep up this week.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        Not that I know of, but I left around 7 pm CST last night so, he could have said something after I left.

        • Victor

          “He could have just left” – B. Deixler. Maybe he blew…

    • SarahDB

      snuggles up to Nola with some tea to wait…

  • EnthralledObserver

    I see there might be a wait for a new story… so… in the meantime…

    Bryan Seymour – cult crusher – god I love that man!
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/31016846/muslim-group-found-guilty-of-discriminating-against-women/#page1

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      For you EO. ๐Ÿ™‚ f5

      • EnthralledObserver

        Oh yeah… since the demise of Alan Rickman, I’ve been searching for a new celeb to stalk… er… I mean worship… I think I found him. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          Hehehehe!!

          You have fine taste. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • EnthralledObserver

            At least I got to meet this one in person…

            *cries for Alan*

      • SarahDB

        *fans self

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          I’m not going to say what I’m really thinking and I’m just going to say:

          His wife is a lucky woman. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • EnthralledObserver

            She’s totally gorgeous too… as to be expected… I didn’t ‘meet’ her, but did see her in Sydney with Bryan… he’s lucky too!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Trump has been endorsed by Miscavige. Not really. I just made that up.

  • PickAnotherID

    Is it Friday yet?

    • Draco

      For a while – more or less – depending which part of the planet you live in ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Tony Ortega

    New story up.

    • PickAnotherID

      Yaaaaaaah! It’s Friday!!! Finally.

  • Draco

    Regraded Being is up – http://www.mikerindersblog.org/friday-regraded-being-37/
    While we wait …

  • Cushty Juvil

    It sort of sounds to me like a form of Stockholm Syndrome. And a lot like PTSD. So what Deixler is saying that if it is abuse, but your are brainwashed to think that it is not abuse, even though by definition it is, that it isn’t? Yea, right.

  • chukicita

    You can walk away from Scientology. “You can also dive off a bridge and blow your brains out!” – Scientology Orientation video.

  • When I was 5 and younger, I was sexually molested by my brother. I didn’t know it was wrong, because he was 7 years older than me and told me it was right. I didn’t know it was wrong until my parents caught him, and he was removed from the home, charged with whatever he was charged with, and put into a boys home like juvenile detention. Then I knew better. When you’re a child and have spent all your life being told that was is being done to you is right you don’t know any better. For the “church” (for lack of a better term) to argue that Laura was complicit in her abuse is an insult to abused children everywhere.