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Scientology, in forced-abortion case: We treat people no worse than the Catholic Church does

SeaOrg2

[Seagoing monks, apparently]

Yet again, Scientology is defending itself in court by claiming that it treats people no worse than the Roman Catholic Church does. We wonder when, if ever, the Catholic Church is going to take notice of this.

Sure, the Catholic Church has deservedly been pilloried in the press and the courts for its horrendous sexual scandals. But that’s not the point here. In this case, Scientology is arguing that it can treat children essentially as slaves in its “Sea Organization” because it’s just like the way the Catholic Church treats its nuns and monks and priests.

That comparison came up in the latest filing by Scientology in the forced-abortion lawsuit of Laura DeCrescenzo, which once again is being kept from coming to trial by another motion for summary judgment filed by the church.

Laura filed her lawsuit in 2009, and her case has had a very complex path since then. At one point, it was dismissed for being filed too late by the first judge to handle it, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Ronald Sohigian. But then an appellate court agreed that Laura might have a point that she had not filed it sooner because of Scientology’s manipulative tactics after she left the Sea Org in 2004. So the lawsuit went back to Sohigian’s court, and in 2013, it survived a major challenge, a motion for summary judgment that Scientology filed at that time. Since then, Sohigian retired and the church filed yet another motion for summary judgment, this time based on the idea that its religious rights are being trampled by Laura’s lawsuit.

The new motion was scheduled to be heard last month, but Judge Rolf M. Treu punted at the last moment, apparently panicked that the case was so complex. He asked both sides to resubmit their filings, spelling out their arguments more plainly so he could grasp what was before him.

So now Scientology has filed its paint-by-numbers brief for Judge Treu, and it’s pretty interesting. Scientology has been all the way to the US Supreme Court in this lawsuit trying to hide Laura’s own files from her, but they lost that fight, and the results were pretty stunning once those files were made available. So, with those secrets out, Scientology is going for another tactic — admit that the Sea Org is essentially slavery, but argue that it’s no different than what other religions do.

They even found an academic to say that the hardships he went through as an 18-year-old seminary student were not unlike what Laura DeCrescenzo experienced as a 12-year-old who had signed the Sea Org’s billion-year contract.

Where do they find these apologist professors?

Anyway, although Scientology sounds like it’s leveling with the court about how difficult things can be in the Sea Org, they are still spinning the facts in Laura’s case as favorably as they can, so they can lead up to this argument…

For better or worse, plaintiff, like the Headleys, was raised as a committed Scientologist and committed her life to the Sea Org. In this respect, plaintiff is no different than young people throughout history who, raised in a devout religious tradition, commit themselves to a lifetime of religious service as monks, nuns, priests, etc., often in isolated abbeys, convents, and monasteries, and pursuant to vows of poverty, abstinence, abnegation, isolation, and/or even silence. All such individuals face the possibility that their commitment will not remain steady and firm, and that they may become disillusioned or disappointed by their church. If they change their minds, they risk being cast into a secular world with which they are unfamiliar, for which they are untrained, and in which, perhaps, they may be alone…The clear lesson of the various cases discussed above is that the First Amendment not only prohibits the state from interfering with such a religious commitment directly, but also from creating liability or punishment for it after the fact if the religious life does not work out to the satisfaction of the person who made the commitment.

Reading this spin on the supposed facts in Laura’s life, we couldn’t help thinking of the way Judge Sohigian had summarized the same facts when he denied Scientology’s previous motion for summary judgment. We were in the courtroom that day, and we were taking these detailed notes as Sohigian announced his verdict denying the motion and then spelling out the evidence that had swayed him. We invite you to compare how Sohigian summed up Laura’s experience with the way Scientology attorneys Bert Deixler and Robert Mangels do in this most recent filing.

[Judge Ronald Sohigian, October 23, 2013, Los Angeles Superior Court] …Plaintiff was, in effect, a child in this Scientology. She started out by volunteering at only six or seven years old — and there may be question whether that’s really volunteering when she’s so young. She got involved at 12 in the Sea Org, she moved away from her family. She lived in the Scientology facility in Los Angeles. This Sea Org is evidently a kind of a missionary activity or an office for a propagation for the faith, or something like that. This leaving and going with this organization, at that time she was just about beginning junior high school student. What they got her to do was sign some kind of a paper saying she would work for them basically indefinitely. There’s a number on the paper, a billion years. And that’s when she was 12. When she was 25 she left. When she went into that organization, she didn’t communicate in the standard way with her parents and other family members. Her mail was opened. There was someone present when she communicated with her family members. They did this evidently to make sure she didn’t say anything negative about the organization. She has given testimony that she was apprehensive about whether she was going to be punished. Part of the training was that she wouldn’t say anything negative about the Sea Org or Scientology, and if she did do that, she’d be declared treasonous. Then she’d be given base duties, extra duty. She was also told that she had to report anything that came out of the family, statements or behaviors, that was contrary to Scientology….So here you have a 12-year-old youngster who didn’t regularly interact with her family. And she would have to undergo a “check,” apparently a set of interrogations. (He’s talking about a “sec-check.”) And there’s evidence that you sort of had to pass this test to be able to leave. And the persons that give this test have to be sure that you’re not going to leave permanently. So in this time, middle and late adolescence, there is evidence to show that she went a couple of years without seeing her parents. And this period of time elapsed because she wasn’t let out….When she was in this Sea Org, she had to make out a questionnaire — a life history questionnaire.

Sohigian goes through some questions…He is bringing up specifically the question about asking the Sea Org member to admit to homosexual acts and detail them. Yeah, great questionnaire, Scientology. Now he’s talking about her incredible hours. And even when she wasn’t on the clock, she had to stay around the Scientology facilities, or go with an escort. In 2001, she went to the RPF. He explains to the court reporter that it stands for “Rehabilitation Project Force.” Damn right, judge. How her hours got even worse then, with lights out at 10:30. He’s relating it to his own days in the service! Wow. Sohigian is talking about Laura’s sleep deprivation, and little time for hygiene or changing clothes. Paid only 10 to 50 dollars a week. And during this time no formal schooling. She did take a high school proficiency exam. But didn’t get any other schooling. She could not freely come and go. She observed that when people would escape, they would do a “drill” (a “blow drill”) that would rely on credit card records, etc. So if she tried to leave, she would be tracked down and brought back involuntarily. Well, she did try to leave and was in essence detained. Then was watched 24 hours. Interrogated. And not just interrogation, but that she was told what to say. During RPF, about three or four years, she left the facility fewer than 20 times. She did not have access to her identification or money. Never allowed to have more than 20 dollars on her. Her passport was locked up. She was afraid that if she left, bad things would happen. So in April 2004, she wanted to get out of RPF, but SO put her on hard labor ten hours a day. So she drank some bleach as quasi-suicidal behavior. Now he’s referring to an affidavit she signed when she left the Sea Org, saying at the time that she benefited from the Sea Org.

Sohigian points out that when Laura was seven years old, she picketed this courtroom! “Picketing a courthouse doesn’t usually affect judges, but I think it’s meant to affect the public,” he says. Laura believed that the penalties for speaking out against the church would cost her millions of dollars. And she was asked to periodically sign forms about her loyalty to the church. This was an act of surveillance, she says. She also claimed that she was trained to report anybody who took a negative action against the church. So she claims that she was trying to weave her way through this thicket of fears and apprehensions. And this disabled her from acting more promptly, and that all of this was the fault of the defendants. She claims she remained active in this organization (Scientology) and she was doing that because she was scared, that she would be cut off from her family, declared a “suppressive person.” Her apprehension was that the Scientology organization and its members would smear her. And that she’d seen that happen to other people. She did get a freeloader bill of $120,000, she got calls about it, and she actually paid $10,000. This led her to believe that the organization was keeping its eyes on her. She actually went to work for a Scientologist-owned business in order to pay her freeloader bill. You could say this was an indication that she was not as scared as she says she was, but there’s another potential implication, that it’s circumstantial evidence that she was under continuing surveillance. Sohigian is saying that Laura, between 2004 to 2008, continued to get calls from church members, which indicated to her that she was being observed and snooped on.

It was in 2008 that she first began to consult information critical of Scientology. She thought if she gave her identity, Scientology would send someone to “handle” her — keep her from speaking out. But in autumn of 2008, she contacted another former Sea Org member, and started to talk about a lawsuit. Then she was visited in January 2009 by church members asking her about ESMB. (The Ex-Scientologist Message Board, forum.exscn.net) This was indication in her mind that Scientology was monitoring her online communications. After they left, she found a piece of paper with instructions on how to “handle” her. She was contacted by a lawyer and then filed a lawsuit in 2009. “So my view is, this creates a triable issue of material fact concerning the time-bar defense. It is not conclusive in either direction. I think that under the circumstances I have an obligation to deny the motion for summary judgment in all respects.”

Sohigian was clearly impressed by Laura’s testimony, and felt that the facts in the case were not in agreement, and that a jury should get the opportunity to decide who was telling the truth. Sohigian describes a child who was taken advantage of by an organization that plotted to keep her out of communication with her own family, even when it became clear that she was sorely homesick and simply wanted to talk to her mother. Scientology’s multiple methods of manipulation to keep Laura in fear about exerting even her most basic human rights comes off as anything but the activities of a church.

Now, Scientology is taking another bite at the apple, saying that Laura is exaggerating her claims, and even if it does treat its Sea Org members like crap, it’s a matter of religion which a civil court can’t get involved in.

Laura’s team now has until February 22 to file its response, and then Scientology can reply on February 29. A hearing on the motion is scheduled for March 7.

Here’s the Scientology filing. Please give us your thoughts on it.

DeCrescenzo vs. Scientology: Revised Memo of Points and Authorities

 
——————–

Today in Los Angeles: Hanan Islam has a prelim

At 8:30 am today in Los Angeles, Hanan Islam has a preliminary hearing of some sort in criminal court, and we could use a correspondent on the scene. Let us know if you are in the area and can go by the court to see what happens.

 
——————–

Chris Shelton interviews Tim DeWall, part 4

 

 
——————–

Australian Scientologists have fun at their “Indian event”

 
Perhaps our friends Down Under could help us understand what’s going on here.

 

 
——————–

3D-UnbreakablePosted by Tony Ortega on January 28, 2016 at 07:00

E-mail tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How the Church of Scientology tried to destroy Paulette Cooper, is on sale at Amazon in paperback and Kindle editions. We’ve posted photographs of Paulette and scenes from her life at a separate location. Reader Sookie put together a complete index. More information about the book, and our 2015 book tour, can also be found at the book’s dedicated page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of L.A. attorney and former church member Vance Woodward
UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists
GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice
SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

Other links: Shelly Miscavige, ten years gone | The Lisa McPherson story told in real time | The Cathriona White stories | The Leah Remini ‘Knowledge Reports’ | Hear audio of a Scientology excommunication | Scientology’s little day care of horrors | Whatever happened to Steve Fishman? | Felony charges for Scientology’s drug rehab scam | Why Scientology digs bomb-proof vaults in the desert | PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer | The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill | Scientology boasts about assistance from Google | The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)
    • Rasha

      Never forgotten. Better image to share them….

      • Newiga

        Amy Scobee’s uncle is in the middle, front row.

        • Rasha

          <3

    • Juicer77

      I would have posted the crew photo, though.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        You’re right. I’m swapping tweets. My main objective was to have one that included their names, especially Lt. Col. Scobee. ETA: If Disqus will cooperate that is. Grrr!

        • Juicer77

          It is a nice remembrance by NASA.

  • salin

    Little bit of surfing and ran across a really strange item. Not familiar with the website – so maybe someone has an idea if this is satire or if it is just ridiculously bizarre. http://newsblaze.com/story/20160128022723nnnn.nb/topstory.html

    • Sherbet

      I opened that link and got a popup of Kirstie Alley in her newest Jenny Craig ad. 😀

    • One Human

      That is some very weird stuff, plus, $1B price??!!!

  • dchoiceisalwaysrs

    Coming Soon a scientology press re- release:

    Gangs, drug pushers, mafia members, white collar and other criminals are all invited to come and find out how to extra-legally avoid justice. We will teach you how to claim pseudo-religiosity and cry bigotry when denizens voice their disagreement with your ways. Learn how an unintended consequence of the adoption of the religious phrase in the 1st amendment has been one of our greatest assets in protecting our anti-social behaviour. Historically, scientology has stood up for this barbaric method of existence which is to remain uncivilized and we are reaching out to you and into political and other malleable circles inviting all interested parties to join us. Come to sunday service and or your local NOI mob gathering to hear how we use betrayal and teach inhumane traditions which we are striving through miscavige manipulated case law seasoned with barratry to establish what we all want…..guaranteed success in the practice of you chosen trade.
    We build our successes upon your success.
    Take a stand and don’t let go to waste the crimes of others in the present and dark ages. Stand up for these things as they are a tradition of which we can all be proud

    PS. PLEASE remember to bring your and your marks wallets and purses for use in our FREE live demonstrations and workshops.
    PPS. True donations will not be accepted we only accepted coerced ones.

    Directions to you local cell: ask any raw meat recruiter who is passing out free depraved personality test tickets where our idle morgues are in hiding.
    Duration of offer. this offer expires when david miscavige is admitted to his padded cell which is reinforced with titanium bars.

    Come one, come all to this, most important in eternity, brief billion year event.

    Hip Hop Pouw!!!

  • Saint

    TL/DR: More sharing of childhood.

    A hint then a third story. When I say I am writing with intent I am signaling a decision to share my story as my story. I’ve been asked from time to time to do this, but I had to think about whether I could do that and still respect the privacy of people who may not be willing to share their stories. Here is more intentional sharing. Jenna told us what neglect and abuse looks like when you are away from your parents or are on “staff” as a child. I lived with my parents and was not on staff. Still, even in my case, growing up in Scientology meant you did not get to see your parents. And when you did, it was often tied with church stuff or compensation for church stuff. When I was a school age child, my parents decided my dad, who was on staff and worked 7 days a week, was not seeing us enough. They announced that he would set aside one half hour a week to spend with just one of us, one on one. When it came my turn, one of my siblings was impatient waiting for their chance, so I had to share. It was the only turn I got, and my parents abandoned the effort thereafter. Even at the time, I understood that my sibling needed our dad. But all these many years later, the incident still stings because it was the only chance I had with him and I had to share it. The time was that minimal I can remember it decades later. There is another view, and that is the other children.

    For a time, I agreed to help baby sit the kids of those on staff. We would all show up at 6:AM, and I (and some
    of the others) would be there until 10:30 at night. One or two parents would come during the day to say hi, but for the most part, these children were left with me (a young teen) and occasionally an adult. Numbers ranged from 8 – 15 kids, including a couple of infants. I was instructed that one child (5) was “downstat” and was allowed to be in the building, but was not allowed to talk to the other kids or to me. I did talk to him, but he
    screamed a lot. When his mother came to see his sibling, she would keep her contact with him to a minimum. This happened for weeks. Years later, that kid was as sullen as you would ever meet; he was in the SO; and he did shunning of his own. Many of the children arrived with maybe two meals worth of food. Many arrived with one, or none. 16 hours away from home with minimal food! And of course they would not share, they just couldn’t! There was a take out place down the street that offered free bread sticks with purchase. I would go buy the cheapest thing they had and then fill up one, two, three bags with these breadsticks for the kids. One time, a newer employee took issue with this. I saw the chef take the person aside, point down the street to where I watched the kids, shake his head, and then the employee came back and let it go. They knew I was feeding the kids and they let it happen. I wish they had called the cops. My experiences with children whose
    parents were just “on course” was different and likely more reflective of what you expect from families, and by that I mean, some are good parents and some are not. One family had several kids, who were very independent but kind to each other and lovely. The parents were amazing people and creative. Another family had a couple kids and again were very nice to be with; the kids were clever and adventurous and kind to one another. Another family had a wife who apparently was not as “into it” as the husband. They shared one child whom they did not feed. They would say if the boy got hungry, he can eat whatever he wants. And you’d open the fridge and there would be a Costco sized tub of margarine and nothing else.

    So with this general background of the minimal time kids get with their parents, here is the exciting announcement I got one day. My dad told me that I had been upstat so I got a surprise. This was a big deal, a big announcement. What was the surprise? They had bought me the comm course! Wasn’t I excited? Well, technically no, but I was a compliant child and I proceeded. And I spent my time again on the weekends doing this comm course. I thought the materials were a joke. The love bombing that ensued I recognized at the time as phony. You were great, you were amazing, you finished in record time, everyone told me you were so smart! Now, in my dad’s case, he really was proud of me for finishing something important to him. In the case of everyone else, it was a farce.

    So your time with your parents is minimal, it always feels rushed, and when you are “rewarded” with a surprise, it either falls through (time with parents) or involves more time in the chair doing processes or comm courses or other things. These are my experiences as a child being raised in the COS. Edited to attempt paragraph breaks which are not working.

    • aquaclara

      Good Lord, what were they thinking? I cannot understand how they could leave children with children, mere babies with no supervision, no food, no love. It’s beyond shitty.
      We need more puppy hugs today, so here we go. F5

    • Juicer77

      Thanks for sharing. It’s important that people realize kids have suffered, and still do, at the hands of this group. SMH.

      • Saint

        I was thinking this morning that the stories I’ve shared are pretty low-grade compared to those shared by Derek and Jenna and others. But then I thought it is important to know that this is a systemic, absolutely systemic, problem with COS. From a parent suggesting their son kill himself because of his sexual orientation, to six year olds essentially working a chain gang, to unsupervised five year olds living off freebies from a café whilst banned from speaking to others, the systemic lack of care of children is plain. The details are just in the degree. I remember Kyle Brennan.

        • Newiga

          Every story matters and is worth sharing. Thank you for doing so, Saint!

          • Ella Raitch

            Absolutely. Every story represents a different human being that was denied basic rights.

        • http://scicrit.wordpress.com Once_Born

          Abuse is abuse, and it all matters. I think that there is no such thing as ‘low grade’ abuse.

          As you say, any information will demonstrate that the behaviour of the CofS isn’t that of a few ‘bad apples’ but a systematic, institutionalised pattern of behaviour. Also, so many exes have pieces of the jigsaw that they do not even realise are significant

        • Allie

          Thank you for sharing this, Saint. It is so important that children share their memories, feelings, emotions, disappointments, hopes, etc. to provide the true picture of children’s involvement in Co$.

        • Juicer77

          Been mulling over about “low grade” memories. Yes, there are degrees of horror to the Co$ abuse, sadly. For each of these kiddos, though, any of these situations must have been terribly frightening and confusing (and possibly scarring). It obviously made a big impression on you, for which I’m truly sorry. Heaping terrible emotional and physical burdens on kids, when they already think they control the world and everything is their fault, just makes me sick.

          There’s teaching responsibility and then there’s crushing a soul. The Co$ was designed, for adults and children alike, to crush the soul and smother the individual into a productive drone.

    • JanInThePan

      It’s so important that outside folks understand what really goes on. Thank you for sharing.

    • Ella Raitch

      I was instructed that one child (5) was “downstat” and was allowed to be in the building, but was not allowed to talk to the other kids or to me. I did talk to him, but he screamed a lot.

      Just one horrifying part of a horrifying story of institutionalised child abuse.

      I am working in a public health area where we see health issues that are attributed to failing to form parent/child emotional bonds necessary for normal development. Practitioners teach parents to recognise the cues from their children and how to respond.

      What you are describing is deliberately sabotaging infant attachment.

      I think I need a hug as much as you do.

      • Saint

        There is certainly so much to unpack from simple stories. Thinking of your comment reminded me how they labeled that boy as “psychotic.” To speak in such a cruel manner of such a small child. I shudder to think what made a five year old so “downstat” he was ignored by all for months. Again, I did speak to the child and could not shun him. Even as a young person, I always loved kids and found things to like in each one. He was rather mischievous (this is a complement lol), but he was screamy in an overwhelming situation with a lot of scrubby kids that needed a lot of affection and attention. And this was “kids of staff,” this was not even kids of SO or kids in SO. I so appreciate the comments on this story today, because I always knew it was wrong, and to have the right words used to describe it is helpful. “Institutionalized child abuse,” “institutionalized pattern of behavior.” And again, oh my god was I the lucky one.

        • Ella Raitch

          He was probably screaming to get someone – anyone – to notice him! He was probably feeling like your or I would feel like abandoned in a straight-jacket in a padded cell.

          We form our sense of self through our early interactions with others – very young children don’t have a sense of permanence – I’m not sure what age it changes but for quite some time if you disappear they have no sense that you will be coming back.

          Most humans have innate nurturing senses which are an important part of developing robust mental health in our young and vulnerable. Denying children regular one-on-one interaction with people they can trust to protect them is devastating – especially as you’re talking regular periods (daily?) over a long period of time.

          You are lucky because you are out and able to reflect on it.

    • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

      thanks for telling your story. First hand evidence is important.

  • chukicita

    Fourteen women from an unspecified “local ladies’ society” enjoyed “High-Tea [sic]” and an educational tour of the Potemkin village in Clearwater.

    http://www.econotimes.com/The-Scientology-Information-Center-Hosts-Its-First-High-Tea-and-Educational-Tour-151453

    Amber, Amber, Amber. Poor Amber, trying to make it go right on a Thursday before 2 PM! This is a news story? The ladies (wanna bet they were all Scientologists?) received Froth about Drugs booklets – one woman said she’d give it to her grandchild (a stat! count it!). Amber said they also received “other complimentary ingformation about church sponsored programs.”

    Complimentary information? Couldn’t she just have said “information?”

    “During the event the ladies enjoyed a selection of teas, fresh-baked scones with fruit jams and cookies. ”
    I thought high tea was supposed to be a little more substantial than that, but I’m ‘Merkan. Will a Brit Bunkeroo enlighten me?

  • Mark

    The way this pleonexic ‘church’ keeps on mistreating Laura DeCrescenzo really makes me want to kick someone (Don’t refresh Preparation H):

    • https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorpy_Higginbotham Shorpy

      I like learning new words.

      • Mark

        Me too! :)

    • Dice

      is it scientolucy, scientolusy or scientolousy even scientoloser ?

      • Mark

        Scientolurgy, scientolubricious and scientoloathsome.

        • Dice

          don’t forget the official Scientolotion – it glues, Diane and ethics, to one word!

          good shoop – it tell’s a different story :-)

          • Mark

            But be wary of Scientolaxative…

            • Sherbet

              X(enu)-Lax?

            • Dice

              i had it on my mind but could’t not spell it and i am so lazzyy! and you it’s a slipery sloape as you Armorcans say!
              ETA: Brritanicans – ups!

  • MissCandle

    I hope that Shortie did not pay his lawyers to compare sci-lying-tology to the catholic church for the purpose of causing disagreement amongst certain Bunkerians.

    • Qbird

      Hello MissCandle. I think no. Discussions (ie disagreements) happen here. Always.. & that’s as it should be, yes? Freedom of speech being what it is an’ all. I believe it has everything to do with LRH policy, which is now scripture ~

      • Qbird

        Also, per Ron again, it has to do with Scn., Inc.’s message to the world:

        DEFY US and ~

      • Dice

        Yeah! show that to any judge before the trial.

  • Sarcasmo

    I’m not in Australia, but I’m betting that all the super hero costumes are at the cleaners.

  • Sarcasmo

    Can’t recall reading any accounts of nuns and priests not having toilet paper in the seminaries and monasteries.

  • Vaquera

    Huffington Post is quoting Narconon, as if that’s a reputable source. (#2)
    Damn. Hands head.

    The Narconon website says, “Drugs and a loving relationship mix about as well as dynamite and a match — the combination can be explosive.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deni-carise/5-reasons-why-its-never-too-late-to-quit_b_9089956.html

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      Scientology and truth mix about as well as toothpaste and LRH’s pearly whites — the combination just never happened.

      • madame duran

        *dies laughing*

    • Sherbet

      Probably fooled into thinking the “anon” part means it’s an Alcoholics Anonymous offshoot. Which is just what narconon wants. However, Huff Post is supposed to be in the business of news, and narconon is news.

    • One Human

      Something smells funny about the author’s organization:

      http://www.recoverycentersofamerica.com/management/

      • Vaquera

        The article’s author’s brief bio:

        “Dr. Deni Carise is a nationally recognized expert in substance abuse & behavioral health and Chief Clinical Officer at Recovery Centers of America (RCA).”

        How can one be a nationally recognized expert AND endorse Narconon? Someone needs to up her meds.

        • One Human

          The same way Prof. Asshat is a recognized religious scholar, pure BS!
          This looks like a very recent start-up.

          • Sherbet

            Good detective work.

    • One Human

      NarCONon and addiction: the results can be fatal.

  • FOTF2012

    Science vs. religion: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2016/01/27/scientists-open-the-black-box-of-schizophrenia-with-dramatic-genetic-finding/?wpisrc=nl_az_most

    Shucks, and here I was sure mental illness like schizophrenia was all just due to engrams.

    How wrong can you be? Ron.

    • Rasha

      Dead wrong, apparently.

      • FOTF2012

        LOL — how wrong can you be? Dead Ron.

    • April

      From the article: “In July 2014, Broad researchers published the results of the largest genomic study on the disorder and found more than 100 genetic locations linked to schizophrenia. Based on that research, Harvard and Broad geneticist Steven McCarroll analyzed data from about 29,000 schizophrenia cases, 36,000 controls and 700 post mortem brains. The information was drawn from dozens of studies performed in 22 countries, all of which contribute to the worldwide database called the Psychiatric Genomics Consortium.”

      THIS is well-designed scientific research, NOT what Hubbard did, which was sit around making up shit in his head. The fact that anyone believes there’s actual scientific research behind scientology methods is simply mind-boggling to me.

  • Jgg2012

    One key difference with the Sea Org and things like monks, nuns, etc. is that the Sea Org takes in children, not adults. Another is the isolation its members have: they don’t see their parents, go to school, watch TV, read the Underground Bunker, etc. These 2 points were cited by Sohigian. Training for a triathlon or playing in the NFL is grueling too, but the similarities end there.

    • Newiga

      Also, I’m pretty sure monks, nuns, etc. know what they are getting into. In the SO, unpleasant surprises lurk behind every corner. Promises of auditing, courses, education, libs, being able to call your loved ones, etc. are lies.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Also nuns (don’t know about monks I don’t know their rules) can visit their families whether they’re believers or not. The Catholic Church does not force anyone to disconnect from a loved one because they don’t believe or because they criticize the church.

      • Dr_Orpheus

        They actually get time off to see there families, something which I understand to be exceedingly rare in the Sea Arrgh.

        • Sherbet

          Generally, yes, but there are cloistered orders who don’t have visitors, and there are periods during the process of becoming a religious sister or brother where they are not allowed to leave. It depends on the order.

          • Dr_Orpheus

            At least they presumably knew ahead of time what the policies on visitations would be, and it’s not difficult to leave the order if they feel they can’t handle the rules.

            • Sherbet

              Definitely. Adults usually do know the policies, unlike the children who were suckered in by cos.

      • Jgg2012

        I think that one reason Leah Remini did leave was that her sister Nicole (who was in the Sea Org with her and was close to her) had already left. This meant that the only way they could all be together was for all of them to leave and, after being mistreated at Tom and Katie’s wedding, she had a reason to leave and bring everyone with her. Otherwise, I think that she would have stayed, and most Sea Orgers do. And when did Laura feel she could leave? After she learned that her mother was thinking of leaving.

  • jane456

    I really wish someone could explain why the Federal government is going after the Polygamists for child labor but they don’t go after Scientology for the same thing. It is probably some convoluted legal issue, but still I am curious.

    • Joe

      $$$$$.

    • Juicer77

      You’re not the only one.

    • Observer

      The FLDS hasn’t spent millions of dollars safepointing morally and ethically challenged government officials, and Scientology has.

  • flyonthewall

    If this doesn’t go Laura’s way something is seriously wrong

    • SucculentDuck

      hey fly! how was Tool?

      • flyonthewall

        Tool was something else. I dosed (1st time in maybe 15yrs) and got into a serious thing with the opening band, 3teeth and then Primus with their crazy Willy Wonka theme just put me over the edge, in a good way.

        There was what seemed to be a very long delay (take w/grain of salt as my senses were very distorted) b/w Primus and Tool and since I was tripping so hard I just kind of spun out and never recovered. Honestly, the thing that stood out most about Tool was that it seemed like it was a bad dream I couldn’t wake up from. The songs were all mixing into each other and it seemed like I was watching a tape on loop that was also all scrambled up. Seriously. There was this really weird “intermission” (thinly disguised obligatory encore) where there was a big countdown timer so you would know when the show started again and when they came back out Danny did this extended drum solo, they played Parabola I think and then it was over.

        I think that Tool was making a mockery of the cliche’ rock concert thing. They had a corny laser show, obligatory encore which for some reason they called an intermission, extended drum solo, Danny threw his sticks into the crowd afterward. It just felt wrong and horrible, very fake and contrived but purposely so. Like, they were saying, “You want a rock show, ok here you go!” Does that make sense?

        So Tool was a big bummer and a very bad trip for me but 3teeth and Primus were incredible and a real spiritual experience. Primus didn’t play very long at all but it was still amazing.

        eta – Maynard also wore this police riot gear outfit w/helmet and everything. I thought a lot about the whole thing and his choice of costume (symbol of authoritarianism and order) and I really think that he chose it bc Tool’s whole show was very orderly and packaged, very by the numbers. Idk, I could be way off but I don’t think so.

        • Frodis73

          Hmmm…interesting. Primus always rocks it.

          • flyonthewall

            I’ve seen Tool 3x before this, all in 2001, and it never felt like this before. The f/x and the whole program was just so formulaic and weird. I know I was tripping hard but I was wide open and I trust my impressions. Tool was mocking us with that show

            • Frodis73

              I can totally see them doing that. Sucks when what they wanted to pull off fell flat…esp with the cost of tix these days.

            • flyonthewall

              The thing is, they didn’t sound bad, technically they were fine. Nothing wrong stood out in that respect to me.

              But it’s like, how is pulling a joke on me going to go over well? People were happy! They got what they paid for, a rock show – lasers, encore, ext drum solo, throw your sticks to the crowd etc. Those are cliches but the people were happy, that’s what they wanted and that’s what they got and Tool fucking knows it. I came for a spiritual experience and I got it but not from Tool bc that’s not what they were there for. They were there to give a canned rock show.

        • SucculentDuck

          interesting, thanks for the replay. there’s def an element of f’ing w/ the crowd. bummer that you had that experience, all things considered, but i’ve been to shows like that, too. 3Teeth are good dudes.

          • flyonthewall

            Very good dudes. Cool that you’ve heard of them, I never did until this tour but they have a new lifelong fan :)

  • nottrue
    • Newiga

      I dunno, Kirstie. What concerns YOU most about the future of the Sea Org/Scientologist children?

      • Sherbet

        I love it when she pretends she’s just another concerned American mom. She’s a foul-mouthed, vindictive, oversexed, ignorant, irrelevant, pig-headed, multi-addicted, faded actress. But she likes coming across as Maria Von Trapp, cuddling a whole flock of rosy-cheeked moppets to her bosom and teaching them The Golden Rule, in harmony.

        • Newiga

          Well said! *applauds* She should add that to her Twitter bio. 😛

          • Sherbet

            Do you think I was harsh? ;-/

            • Newiga

              You were pretty accurate. That’s her in a nutshell. I’m glad that you made no references to her weight though. Personally I don’t care how much she weighs. Her obnoxious personality is what annoys me.

            • Sherbet

              No, I don’t like weight shaming, either. Kirstie’s weight is part of her addiction. It’s no joke. It just riles me that a person who paid millions to get all the answers doesn’t have an answer to that one glaring problem, and nobody is supposed to notice.

            • Allie

              No, you spoke the truth. Certainly, we Bunkeroos see it all the time with her tweets,
              but now many regular ppl are replying to her with serious snark. They.get.it.

        • Observer

          She’s got all the emotional maturity of a particularly immature 13-year-old.

          • Sherbet

            Beautiful!

          • Sherbet

            Yesterday somebody posted a round-table discussion among documentary makers, Alex Gibney and Michael Moore included. In talking about scientology, Moore said Travolta, Cruise, and Alley are all very nice people. I don’t know her personally, of course, but “nice” is not an adjective I’d think anyone would use for Kirstie Alley. And coming from Michael Moore, I was doubly surprised.

            • Observer

              She’s an actress. Were they expecting her to show her true colors?

            • Tracy Schmitz

              and he would know they are all nice because HOW? and WHY? “did he meet them ONCE and did the whole celeb you kiss my ass and i’ll kiss you ass schtick?” or the excuse of “hey, they were nice to ME, so hence they must be nice people!” i hope gibney showed moore the gross errors of his way….

        • Judith Sylvester

          You said it Sherbet. “I may seem like just a Mom because I care so much, but I’m really Maria Von Trapp, and Mark Twain on the inside.”

          • Sherbet

            Ah, yes, she’s a stellar human being.

        • Royce Harlow

          “She’s […] oversexed,……….”
          That brought up a mental picture I really could have lived without.

          • Sherbet

            Sorry, Royce.

        • Tracy Schmitz

          exactly.. you pretty much nailed who she really is (even more adjectives could describe her!)….the question is does she TRULY think she is this or is she like the other cult celebs the ultimate bullshitter! it’s a given she’s ignorant….

    • aquaclara

      Great reply from LordKingBilly.
      Thanks.

  • SucculentDuck

    Hey Scientology, if the Catholic Church jumped off a bridge would you? Comparing 12yr olds to nuns and monks and priests (or even soldiers in boot camp… good one, judge) isn’t an accurate analogy. Try again and get back to me.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    OT: Is it my imagination or has the Google Earth view of Int Base recently been upgraded?
    Is that a Bluebird under wraps near where the Old Gillman house was?

    • Robert Eckert

      If David Miscavige wants to huddle in a trailer, he should be aware that it is not so easy to disappear as it was thirty years ago.

      • SucculentDuck

        it would be if this was the trailer and we launched him into the Snake River

      • Eivol Ekdal

        I think I found his “Slip out the back Jack” garage…

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Definitely looks like it’s been updated. Miscavige could just get a Barbie motor home customized. Or get Lou to pull him around in a shoe box. :)

      • Sherbet

        So bad!

        • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

          ; )

          • Sherbet

            I generally don’t height-shame Dave (there are plenty of other things to pick on), but the shoe box visual is just too good not to giggle.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              He could get Lou a sparkly harness to pull him with. 😀

            • Sherbet

              Mardi Gras!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Right? Maybe a ring pop? That’s the closest thing to a ring that ho is ever going to get from him.

            • Sherbet

              She’s just, um, keeping the home fires burning while Shelly is toiling in the titanium vault.

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              You said it a lot nicer than I would have. :)

        • Todd Tomorrow

          She did pull it in.

      • shasha40

        Shoe box , definitely . Even Barbie’s motorhome is Too big for tiny member !!! 😀

      • SucculentDuck

        how about this rig! even looks like Dictator Minisculeage behind his massive podium! after his 3hr speech we can launch him into the Snake River Canyon! no rescue squad needed.

        ***edit to include: sorry for the double post in this convo. i just find this extremely amusing.

        • Sherbet

          That thing is probably worth some money.

          • SucculentDuck

            yup, this along w/ my Luke Skywalker action figure (ol’ Luke even took a few rides down the stairs of my childhood home on the back of Evel’s bike) and 4x original KISS solo albums on vinyl and i’m totally set for retirement. cha-ching!!!!

            • Sherbet

              Good luck with that.

    • One Human

      Does this mean Davey is declining?

    • Techie

      No, Elvol, I think that has always been there, it is the 3 MW diesel generator and backup diesel tank. All the other buildings are gone but they need the generator whenever the Southern California Edison decides to dump them for a while.

      ETA There is a garage for the Bluebird next to his house.

      • Eivol Ekdal

        Oh Techie – as always great info.
        One day I would love to meet you and buy you a beer!

  • ReallyMGM

    No words. Today’s story makes me ill. How many other women and teenage girls did this happen to who didn’t speak up? I am sure it more than hundreds over the years.

    My sympathy to Amy Scobee and family on the anniversary of the loss of her uncle on the Challenger.

  • Rasha

    Totally O/T: I’ll be out of town for the next few days, so I decided to celebrate early — this Sunday marks Rasha’s First Bunkerversary! That was an exciting and fast year to watch the chult spiral. So fall. Much implodey.

    The post was http://tonyortega.org/2015/01/31/jon-atack-3/ and I was welcomed at the ever-open door by:

    noseinabk
    And I’m Cute, Too
    Missionary Kid
    L. Wrong Hubturd
    Rita G.
    Bunker Bugsy Betsy
    Ella Raitch
    Frodis73
    what’sup
    giggler
    Commodore H. McCringleberry
    3feetback-of-COS

    …and managed to get on everyone else’s nerves shortly thereafter …happy to be a Bunkeroo. ^_^ Just sayin’.

    • Sherbet

      Oh, phooey, I didn’t welcome you? Is it acceptable to welcome you one year later? Welcome, Rasha! And your little nailgun, too!

      • Rasha

        I believe you did on that day, to a subsequent post. It was an exciting day for Rasha.

    • Jimmy3

      You know what I got for my Bunkerversary??? A half-burnt cigarette and a “Smoke up, Johnny3!!!”

      • Sherbet

        How many years ago?

        • Jimmy3

          I dunno, that was like 8 years ago. I was sleeping here for a while it was under construction.

          • Sherbet

            Eight years, my Aunt Fanny. I mean, let me check Google…oh, yes, Traditional Gift for an Eight Year Bunkerversary: A half-burnt cigarette.

            • Jimmy3

              Yep. See.

            • Rasha

              Oooo. I got that to look forward to. Same one, or do we all get one? Is there a way to up my status and get one early?

            • Sherbet

              Check the sidewalk outside Park Street Station. I think you’ll find what you’re looking for (and some things you’re not looking for.)

            • Rasha

              Ch’yeah. I’ll wait 7 years….

          • Ben Franklin

            so that was you on the floor with 3 blankets?

      • Vaquera

        …..

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Wow. They even got your names wrong…?

    • Newiga
      • aquaclara

        I am so going to make this cake. YUM.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Hah! I read that as ,”I am so going to make out with this cake.”

          And it made complete sense.

      • Rasha

        I am. I am drooling. Yes.

    • flyonthewall
      • Kay

        I love minions….

        • Rasha

          BOKA!!!

        • Allie

          Me too! They always make me laugh, giggle and smile 😀

          • Kay

            I think they are truly addictive and weirdly hypnotic..either that or I’m very easily amused. LOL

            • Allie

              All of the above. and I’m easily amused too. And they do it every time.

        • EmmaDaoust

          They look like 25 mg Zoloft capsules in overalls.

          There. I’ve just earned my big fat psych paycheque for the month.

          • Rasha

            ka-CHING!!!!!

    • Allie

      Happy Bunkerversary, Rasha. So glad you’re here.

      • Rasha

        Thanks! Me, too!

    • Kay

      I didn’t welcome you ??? Arrrggghhhh (slapping own face vigorously from both sides)

      • Rasha

        I’m sure you did!! (Grabs wrists, big hug). That was just on my first post. ^_^

        • Kay

          :-)

      • beauty for ashes

        upvote for literary drama kay!!!!

    • Nat-leficent

      So the rest of us get shot when you go on your inevitable rampage — is that what I’m hearing?

      • Kay

        NAT….meme alert above. We need one…and I’m not any good at that. Oh pretty pleez?

        • Nat-leficent

          Sorry, I’m at work :(

          • Kay

            DAMN…oh sorry….DANG

            • Nat-leficent

              I know! Stupid job.

            • Kay

              Yes, don’t jobs just interfere with one’s life, truly? I have felt that way for years.

      • Rasha

        Hehe – that was just the first post. I met more Bunkerbugs that first day than I have BTs.

        ETA: I only use the nailgun for Good, now. (cape blows in the wind, beam of sun breaks through the clouds…)

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          • Rasha

            Sound advice!

    • aquaclara

      Happy Bunkerversary, Rasha. Here’s a special caek in honor of the big day. (F5)

      • Rasha

        KITTEHCAEK!!!!!! ^_^

      • Kay

        Cute !!

    • ReallyMGM

      Happy Bunkerversary Rasha! 😀

      • Rasha

        Thnaks!!!!

    • daisy

      Not a nail gun cake, but as close I cloud

      • Rasha

        <3 !!!!!

    • EmmaDaoust

      Bunker Happyversary, Rasha!

      • Rasha

        Thnak you!!!! ^_^

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      Happy Anniversary Rasha. I got you refill of nails for the nail gun. ❤

      • Rasha

        squeeeee!!!

    • Qbird

      Rasha silly.
      so love.

      • beauty for ashes

        I think the one on the left might have stuffed her sweater a bit if you know what I mean!

    • beauty for ashes

      Shbap shbap shbap shbap shbap!!! **two nailgun salute** Still my favorite thing you ever said, and it might have been a typo or drunken poetic mistake, “I hug you all the time!!!” <3 <3 <3 <3

      • Rasha

        Weren’t no mistake, regardless of the VBNs. ^_^

    • Ruby

      Happy Bunkerversary, Rasha!

      • Rasha

        Very Thanks!!!! ^_^

    • OOkpik

      *pops a top*
      Cheers, Rasha.

      • Rasha

        Thank you!! *^_^* SQUIRRELEH BUBBLEH!!

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Happy Anniversary! As a matter of perfect timing, the miter saw arrived today. Let’s build something!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      A year late (apparently) but… WELCOME!

      • Rasha

        Fiddle faddle. I was just pointing out my very first comment. ^_^

        ..but THNAKS!!!!!

    • Robert Eckert

      Our friends at Voodoo Doughnut made a special Ammon Bundy cake, let’s pretend it’s Miscavige:
      http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width960/img/oregonian/photo/2016/01/28/-f9a794c7b9ee7e2b.JPG

      • Rasha

        Better yet, let’s commission one. Oooh. For HowdyCon! (high-fives self)

    • Ella Raitch

      Wow – you feel like part of the furniture – a very comfy piece

      Happy Bunkerversary

      • Rasha

        Hehe!! Thanks, Ella!! ^_^ This is my sofa away from home!

        • Ella Raitch

          It made me smile that I responded to your first post!

          • Rasha

            ^_^

  • Jimmy3

    Those damn Catholics, always forcing abortions on their adherents. I can’t even.

    • Royce Harlow

      Yeah! And they’re even more abortionier than normal non-catholic abortions.!!!!!1111oneone

  • Panopea Abrupta

    As a make-up gift to J3, who laments his half-burnt cigarette, Akira Kurosawa made a movie:
    https://www.criterion.com/films/597-yojimbo

  • Jack99

    Sinead O Connor tore up a photo of the pope. Who will the first to tear up a photo of Miscavige on live TV?

    • Rasha

      (hand shoots up)

      • Frodis73

        Lol, omg I never wished I was in a band more…let’s do it Rasha!! Sounds like fun and you know it will make headlines because most of the world will be asking who the heck is this Miscavige guy.

        • ReallyMGM

          I wanna be the drummer so I can throw my sticks at him!

          ETA: Disclosure: I’m watching John Bohnam performing “Moby Dick” right now. Everyone wants to be a drummer when they see that!

    • Allie

      I think it should be a multi-Bunker effort of all the deserving exes.

    • Sherbet

      Whereupon millions of viewers will ask, Who’s that?

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Or… “Why is he tearing up a picture of Martin Short as Jack Frost?”

        (refresh)

    • scottmercer

      Ron Sr.

  • Kay

    That Australian Indian Scio video is just so odd…beginning with the intro “Everyone put your claps together”
    I think that should be a new Bunker phrase, truly.

    P.S. Still trying to get into “Holy Hell” at Sundance tonight. I did read a review online that compared it to Going Clear, but the reviewer was also a bit snarky about Going Clear….nuts to him.

    • dagobarbz

      “Put your claps together” should achieve meme status.

      • Kay

        LOL…absolutely !!! I’m not a good “meme-r” or I’d do it myself !

        • Kay

          Okay here is a meme for the occasion. It’s not NAT worthy, but it will do I think.

      • Jenny Griffith

        Oooh..clap trap.

    • SucculentDuck

      something like this?

      • Kay

        That’s great !!!

        • SucculentDuck

          thx! it’s actually a .gif and they’re clapping like maniacs but Disqus wouldn’t allow it

    • Royce Harlow

      “Everybody put your claps together” Maybe he was referring to the veneral disease…… who knows. It’s a mystery. Doesn’t sound sanitary though.

      • Kay

        Laugh !!

      • EmmaDaoust

        Maybe he meant “clams”?

  • Scream Nevermore

    Yes, I distinctly remember quitting Catholicism because I lived in fear of them forcing me to have an abortion… Oh, wait…

  • Frodis73

    Confessions of an X-Phile…so, with The X-Files reboot I have been looking into my past. I must confess I was a huge fan of the show and this was the early internet days and I would spend hours reading the xfiles newsgroup dissecting every episode, line of dialogue, ep titles, etc. For you youngins this was pre-digital and I had all episodes (well 7 out of 9 seasons anyway) oh VHS and would watch them again and again.

    Earlier today I come across the video that the crew made for David Duchovny on his bday…and freaking JENNA is in it! Oh, I cannot believe I had forgotten that. There are lots of fun celeb cameos in this one and jenna shows up around 3 minutes or so in…she’s swooning on a bed. Argh! DD has so many connections to scientology it’s not even funny.

    For those curious you can check the video but prepare yourselves for a major 90’s flashback. Good times.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wijp4-3giNw

    • Tony Ortega

      Beghe assured me Duchovny — his best friend — wanted nothing to do with Scientology.

      • Frodis73

        Oh I know that…he just has so many close brushes against it with Beghe, Mimi Rogers…there is a couple more I’m not remembering.

      • Mockingbird

        Duchovny has ridiculed Scientology mercilessly. On his show Californication his character picked up a female Scientologist. After they had sex she told him she was a Scientologist and shouldn’t have casual sex. He said “I fucked your thetans”. And laughed at her and Scientology.

        • Qbird

          Jason Beghe said [in Mark Bunker’s uTube interview]
          that he and David, his good friend of many, many years,
          had an honest-to-god-roll-around-on-the-floor
          belly laugh,
          when Jason revealed to David Duchovny, the Xenu story.

          Now that’s something that is really good for our souls…
          [everyday normal usable standard working tech]
          sharing a hearty belly laugh
          with your friend.
          Helps you feel better.
          Helps you to see more clearly.
          Help us heal, I believe.

          Laughter. It’s free.

          https://youtu.be/pER3fa_mTo8

          XD cheers underground bunker folks.
          :::off to shovel snow:::

          • OOkpik

            Hilarious! I’ll be mopping up tears of laughter for a while. It certainly is contagious.
            Scientology calls it glee…a negative reaction. Get stuffed, Scientology! This was fun.

          • Mockingbird

            Now that the X Files is coming back Duchovny should meet Xenu on the show !!!

        • Frodis73

          Yes, they ripped on sci quite a bit on that series. DD rules…he is my secret husband ya know. I died when TO told me had met him.

          • Nat-leficent

            Mine!

            • Frodis73

              Lol.

          • Jimmy3

            Your secret husband is in a lot of those Cinemax-y softcore pornos, you know. I always watched those hoping Scully would show up.

            • flyonthewall

              you know they made a xxx X-Files parody movie?

            • Jimmy3

              I just kind of assumed they did. Never seen it tho.
              *kicks the dvd box under the couch*

            • flyonthewall

              the female lead looks VERY similar to Scully, kinda weird actually. So I’ve heard anyway *whistles*

            • Frodis73

              He’s a perv don’t ya know? :-)

            • flyonthewall

              right, he was a sexaholic or something?

            • Sherbet

              His marriage broke up because of that, I think. (Tea Leoni)

            • Frodis73

              Yes. he went to some type of rehab for sex addiction. He’s a wild man. 😉

          • Mockingbird

            I had no idea. Congratulations.

      • Not a Scientologist Butt

        I’ve heard him making fun of woo-woo quite mercilessly.

    • Kay

      It’s JENNA…Run for your lives !!

    • salin

      That was fun to watch.

    • Jon Hendry

      Jenna’s shown on the bedroom set of Dharma and Greg.

  • nottrue

    I wish Judge Sohigian was still on the case but I hope he is enjoying his retirement…..Also Chris and Tim I could listen to them all day. Can not wait for part 5 https://twitter.com/VelenoMedia/status/692526882424750081

  • Royce Harlow

    All that money and all those donations and all I get is an akward, borderline racist indian event devoid of all entertainment.

    • Kay

      So true…..and I would say it was more than borderline racist….. To use their favorite word, I think it was bigoted. They are mocking a whole culture, and doing it badly to boot.

      • EmmaDaoust

        Golly, it’s like they’re stuck in the 50s or something.

      • Royce Harlow

        I didn’t want to use too strong words so I said it was borderline. It truly is more than that though. When in the beginning of the video the man tried to emulate a stereotypical indian accent I knew this would be a disaster.

        • Kay

          Yeah, me too. It was just bad from the get-go. I guess I shouldn’t use the word bigoted since they throw it around so much, but it really was offensive to me…and not amusing at all.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      “Borderline racist”? How about this?
      Yes, it’s the Elfmans…

      PHOTO CAPTION -“Chief Ferocious Jew & Squaw Hot Momma wish you all a prosperous & kind 2016.”

      https://www.instagram.com/p/_-UIaryXFE/?taken-by=bodhielfman

  • aquaclara

    Scientology’s document calls the RPF “voluntary.” Voluntary by the standard definition.
    Who disagrees with this claim?

    • Kay

      Its about as voluntary as this…

      • aquaclara

        There you go. Yep.
        I would like to see it on the record, maybe testimony from former members talking about how “voluntary’ that experience had been for them. And the repercussions from such horrendous treatment. Then I want to see it shut down.

        • http://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page RMycroft

          Meh. Academics who believe that apostate atrocity stories can’t be trusted and everything a high-control cultic group says should be taken at face value would never be convinced.

    • Techie

      RPF is voluntary. Unquestionable, you can refuse to do the RPF. All you lose are your connections to your family and friends, your career (maybe stretching it a bit to call the Sea Org a career but for most it is all they have), $100,000s and your eternity. No pressure. You find out later that the freeloader debt is purely ecclesiastical, but they don’t tell you that when you are in. What other religion has a huge debt as part of their sacraments, not 10% or a special building fund once in a lifetime contribution, no, if you leave you pay for every bit of on-the-job training you ever received. Now that’s a sacred bovine of very special excrement. Technically they are right, the RPF is voluntary. The devil is in the details.

      • http://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page RMycroft

        Even if you refuse RPF, don’t they insist on a long routing-out process?

        • Techie

          Yes, R Mycroft, they will endlessly draw out the process while they try to talk you out of it. But that is only if you go along with it. If you just call the cops and say you are being held against your will, you can get out of there pretty fast. The problem is, these are folks who would tell you they are in it voluntarily. if you went in with Child Protection Services to rescue the children they would all tell you they are there, with the permission of their parents, of their own free will. Their “free wills” have been tampered with, like a “happy” hooker who tells you she is there to serve with pleasure as long as the pimp is around, then runs away when she gets the chance.

    • Cece

      I ‘refused’ the RPF. It was the second assignment some 8 years after completing the first. The basis for the assignment was in error and there was NO way I was going to do the RPF. But none the less I was not allowed to do otherwise but told I could get a Comm-Ev. [I did and in 3 months I was returned to my org with a clean bill of slate] Now, I could have sat down and refused to move. I had tried that once – James Merchaunt (sp?) called “HCO Bring Order” and two big guys instantly showed up and simply lifted me off the ground and took me to where it was I was ordered to go. Crazy goons! Just like LRH says in Battle Field Earth – Ya gotta have leverage. Well that group had leverage on me: One husband (I’d already lost 2), 4 children (I’d already lost 1), my life history with names and addresses to track me down, my thousands of hours of counseling revealing my deepest thoughts and secrets, my housing, food and income what little it was.

    • aegerprimo

      Human beings do not volunteer for punishment.

      Sohigian goes through some questions…He is bringing up specifically the question about asking the Sea Org member to admit to homosexual acts and detail them. Yeah, great questionnaire, Scientology. Now he’s talking about her incredible hours. And even when she wasn’t on the clock, she had to stay around the Scientology facilities, or go with an escort. In 2001, she went to the RPF. He explains to the court reporter that it stands for “Rehabilitation Project Force.” Damn right, judge. How her hours got even worse then, with lights out at 10:30. He’s relating it to his own days in the service! Wow. Sohigian is talking about Laura’s sleep deprivation, and little time for hygiene or changing clothes.

      ETA: quoted from above.

  • Sherbet

    Kirstie tweeted her complaint about the new, more realistically-figured Barbies. She’s glad she “was raised in the 50’s where a doll was an object, not a role model, & boys could call me a cootie without going to the principal” And somebody commented:

    “Hah, I have a problem with old Kirstie. I mean she gains a ton of weight, gets a celebrity endorsement and a
    reality show gig to lose it, makes millions, then puts the weight back on and begins the process over again, three times in the last decade to be exact. I mean who is she to talk about role modeling?”

    • Observer

      Has she checked into the burn ward?

      • Sherbet

        I’m still trying to decipher her cootie comment. Good ol’ days nostalgia, Kirstie? (Actually, the cooties are still there, and they came from space.)

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          We never called girls cooties, we said the had cooties. And they said we had ’em. Because… kids.

          • scottmercer

            “boys could call me a Body Thetan…I mean cootie.”

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Ooh! Ooh!

              “GIRLS GOT BODY THETANS!”

        • Not a Scientologist Butt

          COOTIES FROM OUTER SPACE!

    • Frodis73

      I love that everything she tweets gets thrown back in her face. She bans anyone that says negative stuff so she won’t have any followers if she keeps it up.

      • Sherbet

        You’d think she’d quit tweeting by now.

    • Sunny Sands

      Oops, you posted about it first :-).

      • Sherbet

        You had more details, Sunny.

    • sashiebgood

      she must’ve gotten the idea from DM and the COS, keep doing the same things over and over and keep getting money for it.

    • Robert Eckert

      In my day, sometimes we said that a girl *had* cooties, but I don’t remember ever saying a girl *was* a cootie.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Yep.

      • Mockingbird

        A BT.

    • daisy

      Barbie I thought that was an action figure of DM. Oh I forgot his action figure is a Tom C.

    • Enturbulated Masterbator

      For once I agree with Fat Actress about a doll is an object and not a role model. Ok, that’s my one good deed towards her this century.

  • http://askanex.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Racism, Tony. That is what is happening in that last video.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Aw, c’mon! Lighten up! It’s just a few jokes. And some funny costumes. And racially insensitive characterizations. And, you know, Big Beings havin’ a little fun at the expense of the wogs.

      Racism? You sound like some kind of bigot…

      • Rasha

        I’ve prepared a nice little laminated card listing all of my crimes. Total timesaver, lemme tell ya!!

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          I had one of those that folded out but it kept bursting the seams on my wallet.

          • Rasha

            Hehe!!!

    • scottmercer

      I wonder why it is we never see other races dressing up as Caucasians. Could it be because that’s asshole behavior?

      • beauty for ashes

        rednecks!

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Nick Cannon.

        Just sayin’.

        (refresh)

  • ze moo

    Thank Xenu that the clams have such a poor opinion of Indians. Imagine the New Delhi mOrg with a huge Buddha style statue of Lroon. That thought will give me nightmares for next month.

    Given the push in Taiwan to translate Lroon’s wit and wisdom into Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese?) can India with its hundreds of languages be far behind? Actually, Hindi and English would suffice, but there are 22 other ‘official’ languages in India. Imagine all the opportunities for fund raising if all 22 languages are needed to ‘save the planet’. I wonder why the clampire hasn’t jumped on that bandwagon? One point 2 billion people don’t want to know.

    • scottmercer

      We know what Hubbard said the problem with China was. Current management seems to have gotten over that, but I”m sure they have that problem still with India.

    • kemist

      I would find it very, very funny to see them try to put Indians in the sea org.

      One thing you learn when you visit India is that Indians do things on their own schedule, no matter who is waiting, or whether that person is screaming at them.

    • http://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page RMycroft

      Huh? They claimed that Hubbard had already been translated into Chinese and Taiwanese [sic] for their Guinness Book of World Records stuff, years ago.

      • Missionary Kid

        There is a native Taiwanese dialect, but the written language is, I believe, the same as Chinese.

        • http://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page RMycroft

          So they counted at least one freebee language to pad out their Guinness submission. (There were others like Mexican and Spanish that seemed iffy.)

          I suspect that a lot of their claimed translations would be improved by running them through Bing fish or Google, except that translating nonsense is a tricky problem.

          • Missionary Kid

            Yup. Translating nonsense only turns out nonsense.

  • Sunny Sands

    Kirstie was quoted today at the Huffington Post about her views on the new Barbi doll (she likes the 1965 original better). Article was by:
    Senior Editor, News & Analytics, The Huffington Post Cavan Sieczkowski
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kirstie-alley-barbie_us_56aa2b85e4b05e4e37036cba

    There was an unflattering National Enquirer front page today in the supermarket check out line featuring Kirstie and Oprah, and insinuating their diet product endorsements were flawed or bogus. Oprah promotes Weight Watchers, Kirstie, Jenny Craig.

    http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/oprah-winfrey-kirstie-alley-weight-loss-schemes/

    Kirstie’s Barbi doll article is all you see on a google name search front page, no Enquirer unless you click more articles. HuffPo also ran an article by Jenna Elfman on 1/7/16, promising 2 more articles in a series. HuffPo seems to be helping Kirstie and Jenna, intentionally or not.

  • Observer

    FB thinks I’d be interested in this. Not so much.

    refresh

    • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

      And a free glass of water!

      • flyonthewall

        and a free mini-tornado in the water!

    • April

      I wouldn’t send my kids there for all the money in the world!

      • flyonthewall

        you could send them there, cash the check for all the world’s money then just bring them right back home. You know, play ’em for chumps

    • salin

      How avante garde – weighing water. What advanced scientific methodology and technology. So sciency.

    • ze moo

      The ‘tornado’ is the result of a small capsule being rotated quickly by a magnetic field in base. So 1970’s.

      • Observer

        And probably still more scientific than anything Delphi offers. I watched most of the video, and from what it showed you’d think they were some kind of MIT prep school. A kid was even doing calculus on a chalkboard.

  • JanInThePan

    Scientology can do what it does because it’s no worse than the Catholic Church? That’s a new low bar, even for them.

  • http://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page RMycroft

    Hey, wait a minute! Prof Benjamin Hubbard is a former seminary student. Nothing he says can be trusted.

    • flyonthewall

      nice

  • 9001

    Where do they find these apologist professors?

    …Scientology at some point decided to cultivate contacts with NRM (New Religius Movement) scholars, and this has taken place through the OSA. Its members have registered as participants at meeting of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion. Most recently scholars have been invited to visit the organization’s headquarters in Los Angeles,with all their expenses paid.
    …OSA sometimes sends its operatives to scholarly conferences, and I recognized two men as OSA operatives, because they were in the conference exhibit area (SSSR meeting in Montreal in1998) handing out glossy Scientology literature. Later on they attended sessions and took part in discussions, identifying themselves clearly. At some point, passing through the exhibit area, I could see these two men exchanging warm hugs with a well-published NRM scholar…

    From Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi article Scientology: Religion or racket?

    • salin

      His field is psychology. Interesting twist. Using a scary psych to legitimize the tech.

      • 9001

        I don’r think he’s legitimizing $ci’s tech. He seems like a good guy.

        • salin

          I will have to read more closely. Thanks.

          Reading (fairly quickly) – it is interesting. And not terribly sympathetic. I agree with your assessment.

    • ze moo

      Safe pointing + a check what a combination.

      • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

        Yeah, writing a nice check helps too.

    • Rasha

      As a never-in with little experience, but who has learned a lot about the chult from those who have been in, based on this excerpt, I was about to post, “Hold on — I’m word clearing ‘safepointing’…” Now, for my own education, have I missed the point? Rasha’s being serious for once.

      • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

        Safepointing means to good PR the shit out of the target so they are on your side and you can later use their good reputation and position yourself with them, so you look good too.

        • Rasha

          Thought so. Looks like I got it. Cool. (G.I. Joe “Knowing is half the battle” clip here)

    • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

      Scientific Study of Religion is kind of an oxymoron.
      Also, SSSR is how you pronounce USSR in Russian.

      • Robert Eckert

        I thought it was CCCP

        • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

          I thought about you when I was typing it, Robert.

        • jazzlover

          I attended a hockey game between the Rangers and the national Soviet team at MSG when I was a teen. I’m pretty sure it said “CCCP” on their sweaters, but those guys were moving so fast skating circles around the NHL players (Canadians still think they’re the best in the world — ha ha) that I couldn’t really tell 😉

    • coonellie

      I’ve always loved Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi! Thanks for posting this :).

  • aegerprimo

    Re: video above.
    The Indian event at the church of Scientology seems so similar to when vaudeville acts put on a blackface….

    https://youtu.be/UfiNT6AKG0s

    • flyonthewall

      have you ever seen the Spike Lee film Bamboozled?

    • madame duran

      It’s exactly the same. It’s insulting, not humorous nor respectful at all.

  • HillieOnTheBeach

    Let me guess. If a count was made today of the 60+ people in that iconic image of Miscavige and his Sea Org, no more than 10 remain (or were still in at time of death). Of the “survivors”, most if not all are in the hole.

    Amiright?

    If Miscavige wants to compare the Sea Org to Catholics taking orders, then go all in and compare standards of living, quality of life, health care, retirement plans & care and… drop out rate.

    Give me a minute and I’ll think of a few more.

  • Observer

    “We treat people no worse than the Catholic Church…” *sotto voce* “…during the Inquisition.”

  • Observer
    • aegerprimo

      Obs….. even when you announce that you are off-topic, you are on-topic.

  • Nat-leficent

    Whoa! That Indian thing is so racist I reacted like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8YAK8oMEKI

  • sashiebgood

    Haven’t read the whole motion yet, but just a couple of thoughts, if the argument from scientology is that she agreed to the conditions of being a Sea Org member, that’s a spurious argument. she made the “decision” when she was 12 years old – 6 years away from being considered legally an adult – which should invalidate the entire “agreement”. I don’t know anything about what the catholics do, but I’m pretty sure that they’re not actively recruiting 12 year olds for the cloisters,and certainly not in the way that scientology does (love bombing, outright lies about the conditions one will be living under). I think Tony’s point is a good one about this “expert” they hired – the experiences of an 18 year old who joined a religious order in Catholicism is in no way analogous to the experience of a 12 yo in the Sea Org. Also, not 100%sure about this one, but maybe 99.9% sure that if a nun gets pregnant, no one is forcing her to get an abortion, because that would be a worse sin, right? they would likely give her some money and ask her to leave the order. not coerce her into an abortion and then make her life a living hell. Isn’t scientology nominally against abortion? I realize they’re not admitting to coercing anyone into doing anything, but in cases like this isn’t the deciding factor what the person BELIEVED was the policy, if not on paper, then through observation?
    I am the volunteer Coordinator for the museum I work for, I do not have ANY 6 year old volunteers. I don’t even have any 12 year old volunteers. the idea that this child was able to make decisions regarding her future at that age is ridiculous. I just can’t even believe that they have let this case go on as long as it has without paying her off, no matter what the verdict, it is horrid PR for the church – “oh hey, we won that child slavery, forced abortion case!” any church should be ashamed to even have those things associated with it.

    • Captain MustSavage

      If a catholic nun fell pregnant there might be pressure to allow the child to be adopted if she wished to remain in the nunhood. Abortion would be a massive no-no. Massive.

      • sashiebgood

        Right! and Scientology has a similar policy, right? so if they’re going to allow in all the policy letters and stuff as doctrine couldn’t that be used against the church in this lawsuit? I would think that comparing themselves to the Catholic Church will blow up in their faces because really, there’s not much of a comparison. Especially since it doesn’t seem that Laura was receiving much of a religious education during her time in the COS. sure they can SAY she was studying and show her freeloader bill, but I bet her testimony will be that she was doing more manual labor than studying or attaining “spiritual freedom”.

  • EmmaDaoust

    Yes, as to that ridiculous “Indian” extravaganza, Canada’s Russell Peters sums it up:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2SNPlSkvBU

  • daytoncapri

    “We are like Catholics” = an attempt to derail a conversation on Scientology. Correction: a pathetic attempt.

  • John McGhee

    The moment one tries to draw parallels or make an analogy comparing scientology to any other religions, they have lost the argument.

    • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

      Hence religious applied philosophy. Alfred Korzybski would be pissed and scientology lawyers are delighted.

  • Free to shine

    I am posting the following on behalf of Paul David Schofield (“Scooter” to his friends) as he couldn’t figure out Disqus regarding the video about the “Indian event”.:

    “I don’t know how many of you have cringed through this all the way like I
    did this morning – it was posted over on The Bunker but I can’t get
    Disqus to work for me so I thought I’d drop my 2c worth here.

    One of the “hosts” is Len Collen, OT VIII and fund-raiser
    extraordinaire. His wife Caroline (former ED Sydney Day org, also OT
    VIII but now “Needing to do the SRD”) is there in a sari. Last I saw
    them was when Tony O was at the Giant Dwarf in Sydney with Steve Cannane
    and Bryan Seymour. Len and Caroline were in the audience. Keeping a low
    profile, just like all good OSAspawn should, until Anna Detheridge
    noisily “outed” them.

    .

    The other “host” (“Simon?”) looks familiar but I can’t quite place him.

    Among the dancers it looks like the infamous Carli Crutchfield – but
    that may just be that I’ve left my usual glasses at work and I’m sitting
    in a darkened room trying to read this with my sunglasses while a
    thunderstorm is brewing outside

    Around the 10 minute mark, Edwin Taylor makes an appearance and spruiks
    for NZ org. Ed has been Syd staff pretty much since the mid-80s.
    Interesting how he talks about how big the machine for recruiting “raw
    meat” was at that time, It was actually decimated after 1983 and what he
    ran into was a pale version of the early 80s. Yet he’s talking about
    that as something that was awesome and to be aspired to now – shows how
    bad things are in the cult right now. And they’re not noticing.

    Then there’s the “acceptable truths” posed by the (probably) SO speakers
    while we have the vid. of someone’s kid playing around. Hope the kid
    avoids the recruiters in the future and makes a life for himself.

    THIS is now the REAL work done by $cientology orgs – as my mate Feral
    has pointed out on numerous occasions, the orgs are now just
    “shopfronts” for fundraising – they really don’t DO anything but beg for
    donations in many and various ways. And so I’m sure whoever filmed this
    and posted it on social media for the “SPs” to “pervert” is now being
    roasted slowly by OSA ANZO. O hai Vicky. Managed to convince your seniors at OSA INT that you are punishing the offending juniors already and are all over this “flap?”

    I wanted to post this explanation over at the Bunker so if anyone could
    cross-post for me I would much like that – I’m heading back to work now
    and I just don’t have the time (nor the glasses ) to do it myself.”

    • Noesis

      Are you sure you posted the correct video?

      This one does not seem to relate to the text description.

      • Free to shine

        Just trying to edit now, having my own trouble with that! It’s the same video Tony posted. OK fixed, I took the link out. Thanks.

  • flyonthewall

    Sci Lawyer: Scientology is as cruel and ridiculous as any other religion
    Judge: Ah, I see you’re going with the ignorant internet commenter defense. I’m going to allow this

  • flyonthewall

    bored at work, what should I listen to? I’m wide open, hit me

    • Qbird
      • flyonthewall

        yes, I’m liking this a lot and it is completely out of my regular sound. Thank you Q

        • Qbird

          hit me back, fly.

          • flyonthewall
            • Qbird

              got 4 min to go … I really think Mr. Q would like this one.
              must save to send to him. must listen again with ear buds.
              It’s a tough song.
              fly, I been thinking of Laura DeCrescenzo all day.
              How tough she is.
              How she’s standing up to this organization and speaking her truth of what happened to her… hanging in there… trying to move forward.
              Baby, I’m amazed.
              I admire this person.
              She be lioness kind of strong.
              just sayin’

            • flyonthewall

              *nods* Laura the Lionheart.

            • aquaclara

              That’s it, Q.
              Thank you.

            • Enturbulated Masterbator

              Finally some music I appreciate. Morcheeba does some nice instrumentals despite the useless rap lyrics.

    • http://www.tonyortega.org/ DodoTheLaser

      I want your work. Eta: Grand Canyon by Puscifer would do.

      • Qbird

        i knew you had a song to share. hi Dodo.
        eta: see Amazing Blues Slide Guitar Street Musician
        from the streets of Amsterdam.

    • Sid (Phil Jones)

      When were were young, (way back in the ’60s) my younger brother and I used to drive our older brother crazy by singing this song, over and over again. Drove him nuts. Strangely I still remember all the words. Maybe I was the one who went off the deep end.
      https://youtu.be/HW1GpxB0LH8

      • flyonthewall

        How did you make it out of there alive!? Lol. Btw, I didn’t know they made Lego hair for real people. I have lego guys with this guy’s exact same hair. Maybe he use to be a lego guy? Like a Pinocchio type story and then fairy threw in a bonus and also made him a pop star while she was at it

        • Sid (Phil Jones)

          Ha! Yeah, that hair was classic. It actually may have been the model for all future generations of Lego hair.

      • flyonthewall

        kinda dumb and kinda smart! oh that is classic, i am digging this

      • EmmaDaoust
    • Rasha

      Just ‘cuz Rasha luvs ’em….

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoXvMWWdRwM

      Edited for better version

      • flyonthewall

        such diverse tastes in the Bunker!

        • Nat-leficent

          Yeah, I thought it was crap too XD

          • L. Wrong Hubturd

            Dayum! On her anniversary too. 😉

            • Nat-leficent

              Who keeps track of bunkerversaries anyway? Seriously

            • flyonthewall

              you are so mean Nat, I’m glad you like me or else you’d make me cry i know it

            • Nat-leficent

              😀

      • Cece

        So nice. Both posts, relaxing and complex in a simple sort of way. Very artistic. It would be nice to see versions with English sub-title. Thx for posting.

        • Rasha

          (Logging in from a hotel far away from home – very tired, but couldn’t resist) Thanks. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but they do make me smile. Simple songs, but creative and fun-loving. Many don’t need translating, but I find the English words just for fun. So, okay. Drove all day, busy weekend ahead. You kids be good. 😉

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      This guy pulls off something OTs wish they could…..cloning themselves. And he’s damn talented otherwise.

      https://youtu.be/e8wWGAy5W4c

      • jazzlover

        Isn’t that the father in the Brady Bunch? 😉

      • Robert Ramsay

        Reminds me of Mike Oldfield 😉 I was going to say Phillip Glass but things are happening far tooooo quickly. :)

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          It’s very much an admitted tribute to Oldfield. Pretty much the best one ever. It was so popular that he’s doing a second one and got some former Oldfield technical folks to join in.

          Great Phillip Glass joke!

        • Enturbulated Masterbator

          Hey, Phillip Glass is supreme! But yes, a little sleepy at times for sure.

          • Robert Ramsay

            It was spot on in Koyaanisqatsi.

            • Enturbulated Masterbator

              Yes, one of the best. The accompanying video is sublime and mesmerizing. Glass has done so many movie scores that many people don’t realize. Same with Ryuichi Sakamoto. Two of the finest composers and musicians alive.

      • flyonthewall

        I’m glad he’s using his powers for good and not ebul

    • SP Wogsy
      • flyonthewall

        thank you, I will

        • Juicer77

          that’s why we love you! 😉

          • flyonthewall

            or love to hate me? *raise eyebrow*

            • Juicer77

              Naw, we’re fond of you, old chap

    • SP Wogsy
    • salin
      • flyonthewall

        90’s positive hip-hop is some of the best hip hop

  • http://umbraxenu.no-ip.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page RMycroft

    They went with “We treat people no worse than the Catholic Church does” because “We’re not as bad as Jonestown” didn’t score well with the test panels.

    • Qbird

      um, I freely admit I lol’d at this RMycroft… i did!

    • Kay

      So…..I guess if you are no worse than the catholics, but not as bad as Jim Jones, (and David Koresh, and Heaven’s gate….they left those out) then you are “in the zone” Scientology-wise?
      How offensive to the Catholic church, truly.

  • SciWatcher

    OT, and this may have mentioned before, but this kind of thing makes my blood boil:

    http://www.pasadenanow.com/main/holocaust-survivor-to-speak-at-remembrance-event-in-pasadena-this-sunday/#.VqrcXyorLWI

    Fucking hypocrites.

    • Qbird

      Should have ended with this: “Please join us in honoring the survivors of the Nazi era,” she continues. “Let us work together to help prevent future genocides.”
      [fixed it. crass cchr]

    • Frodis73

      Has anybody heard of this speaker before? I have my doubts that this person would be willing to speak on behalf of cchr in any capacity let alone the crap the Co$ does. This is a huge WTF.
      Total f’n hypocrites.

    • Kay

      THAT is revolting, truly.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Alright, who gave Jaden Smith the Bunker Blue nail polish?
    Sorry, dude but Tory wears it better…
    (refresh)

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BA-vHD0S9Xi/?taken-by=christiaingrey

    • Rasha

      Just. No. Stop.

    • flyonthewall

      getting very tired of these people thinking they’re walking talking art exhibits

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        He’s thinking? 😉

    • Nat-leficent

      *trembling* Can’t make fun till he’s 18 — arrrggghhh!

      • Intergalactic Walrus

        You are a better person than I am. I figure if you are old enough to post a stupid photo like that on your social media, then you are old enough for me to laugh at it :)

  • Rasha

    Night Bunks. See ya Monday. One last vid for my Bunkerversary. Fitting and mesmerizing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4znsXCH_2Y

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Couldn’t help but wonder if we might see an ashtray levitating.

    • Juicer77

      Happy Bunkerversary!

  • Sherbet

    Has anyone posted a RIP for Paul Kantner?

    • Rasha

      ;(

    • Liberated

      I loved the Airplane. I loved Paul Kantner. I’m so bummed. He wrote some beautiful songs and had a beautiful voice. What’s with this year ? We lost another musician. RIP, you will be missed man.

      • Sherbet

        This seems to be the year 1960/70s living is catching up on some of the greats.

  • cdubb

    total catholic membership 1.1 billion
    http://www.pewforum.org/2013/02/13/the-global-catholic-population/

    total scientology membership ????
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Scientology
    one interesting note at wikipedia, “If the claimed figure of 4 million American Scientologists were correct, “they would be like the Lutherans and would show up on a national survey”.”

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      And somehow I doubt that Pope Francis will be dropping his body alone in a Blue Bird trailer, parked out in the boonies. In fact, I’d bet against it.

  • Kay

    “HOLY HELL” movie (Sundance film)

    Well this movie was of course rather depressing since it’s a movie about a cult. (Buddhafield) It had similarities to all cult-like organizations, i.e. a charismatic leader who eventually runs amok and starts thinking he has supernatural powers, and that he is the only person who can teach people how to contact God, etc. What saddened me was the same thing you hear about Scientology, and that is that there were really intelligent, exceptional, creative people who somehow bought into it and spent years of their lives being personal slaves to “Michel” their leader. (BTW Michel is living in Hawaii under another name and running a new cult) The director said he was looking for deeper meaning at the time he got involved with the group via his sister, and at first the group really was functioning well, everyone was happy, and they were helping each other. Then “Michel” got out of control and demanded slave-like behavior from his followers.

    IMO Going Clear was a much better film. The content of this film was good, but it needed better organization and editing. (Not everyone can be Alex Gibney) The main point: although this was a major life detour for the cult members, many of the survivors have become very close to each other and can share an experience that those outside of their group cannot. I think that is important, and is one of the functions of the Underground Bunker for survivors of Scientology. If you are still actively depressed about your experiences in Scientology, or another cult, I would recommend that you steer clear of this movie until such time as you are feeling better.

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Do you think that the fact that the filmmaker had been in the cult for so long has a negative or a positive effect on the film? I wonder if outsiders have a better take on these kind of situations as opposed to former cult-members.

      • Kay

        That’s an interesting question. I think having been in for many years, and being willing to talk about it was good. PLUS he was the cult’s designated filmmaker, so he had a lot of footage of the cult and it’s members over many years. It was like a film diary. He didn’t try to make the movie about himself per se, but rather, he treated everyone equally.I’m glad he made the film.

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          When I read that he had all of that footage, I couldn’t help but think what would happen if there was a clam equivalent. Just judging by the limited amount of crazy CO$ stuff we’ve seen, it would be mind-blowing. Can you image actually seeing film of the crazy stuff LRH did on a daily basis? Or Miscavige? Oy!

          • Kay

            I know !!! I thought the same thing. Just the limited amount of video footage that is available right now on Scientology is really revealing. Having footage of LRH, DM etc. over a couple of decades….wow.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              I remember that audio Tony posted of LRH & the wifey using an emeter like a Quiji board, trying to get it to confirm his insane theories. What a crazy idiot! You know that lunacy like that was happening all the time. SMH

            • Kay

              Yes, absolutely ! I think the one comforting thing about this movie is that it helps other victims of cults understand that they are NOT stupid, that anyone can be sucked in…particularly if you are an idealistic person who just wants to make a contribution to the world. It makes me feel badly when any poster here beats themselves up over spending years in the CoS. They are the VICTIMS, not the perpetrators. You can’t think normally or critically under those type of circumstances and under continual fear of retribution. No one can.

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              I imagine its a little bit like falling in love with someone, who you later came to realize was a total jerk. And it’s like they say, it’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

            • Kay

              Yes, absolutely. I think it is basically a “religious” bait and switch. No one inside of a cult would willingly submit to what they eventually have to if they knew what it was really like at the outset

            • Intergalactic Walrus

              With the internet and the multitude of unsavory Google search results, it also takes a lot of willful ignorance to get taken in by the CO$ these days :(

            • Kay

              YES…..Thank God (literally) for the internet !! Now the tiny little emperor has no clothes.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              I’m going to copy and paste this if you don’t mind. I pipe up now and then when I see posters here get verbally assaulted with the stupid and arrogant barrage and I see it all the time.But since I”m an Ex, it may get dismissed. It would be good to have someone else’s view to throw out there. I’ve always thought those who close their minds to the mental journey and experience are missing out on a valuable learning opportunity. Of course, I realize scientology is something that worked in the 60’s and 70’s with a different culture, background, group, and situation. The ones who are convinced they could never be duped probably already are or will be soon enough. Thos are the easiest marks!

              And it gets lost how 99% of anyone involved only knew 1% of what all of us learn here; we all learn here on the internet now. Also seems to get lost that the majority leave within 2 years, and that the majority of those still in now are 2nd and 3rd gen and their family. Totally different situation when you’re born into it and know nothing else. Most of all, scientology looks ridiculous in this day and age. It would be good to have a comparison of it to a modern scam that is going on now to make it more understandable how people fall for it. Education is the key to immunization in my book.

        • Liberated

          Did you see the movie “Martha, Marcy May Marlene ? Good movie. I think once a person has been in a cult, there is a certain sensitivity for such movies, and a certain awareness for such things. I know that was true for me. I wanted to read , watch, and find out everything I could to expose these cults for how evil they truly are. How they prey upon the young and naive. How they exploit every vulnerability a decent person has. I know they have been a comfort to me. I had always felt so foolish. It’s nice to know I wasn’t the only one.

          • Kay

            I heard about that, but I haven’t seen it. I would like to see it. No, you are certainly NOT a foolish person. You were just a normal person trying to survive under VERY abnormal conditions and circumstances. Don’t ever beat yourself up over this, ever. It was not your fault. These manipulators are world-class sociopaths who know how to push everyone’s buttons. Hug yourself and congratulate yourself every night because it is no small thing to have the courage to leave !!!

            • Liberated

              Thanks, it really is a must see. Always the same sick formula of control. And what these “leaders” make these people do, unspeakable!

            • Kay

              I agree…..they are totally evil people. In working with cult survivors of a different cult, I have found that the most challenging work is getting people to realize that they were not at fault. Some people realize that fairly quickly, but most people I have dealt with have to work on it over a period of time.
              I will seek out that movie and watch it. Hopefully it’s on Amazon.

            • Kay

              I found it on Amazon….I will watch it over this weekend. Thanks for the tip.

          • EmmaDaoust

            That film was so hauntingly good, terrifying in fact. 20 years out of the group I was in and it hit all the marks.. Elizabeth Olsen was exceptional.

            • Kay

              I remember that she got superb reviews. I’m glad its on Amazon….I’m excited to watch it. I love Amazon, you can almost always find any book or film on their site.

            • EmmaDaoust

              Just make sure you’re not alone when you see it. Or have a kitteh or teddy bear to hug or something. It gets inside you.

            • Kay

              Really? That bad, huh? OK…..I won’t watch it by myself. If Mr. Kay is at work I will put the doggies and the cat on the bed with me.

            • EmmaDaoust

              It’s dubbed by some a psychological thriller. It’s very quietly dark, very internal, intense. And intentionally confusing. Yes, doggies and cat are good. And Mr. Kay. I’ll be interested to see what you think about it.

            • Liberated

              Wasn’t she good ?, I was very impressed.

          • daisy

            Is your story somewhere ? I would be interested in reading it, if it isn’t too personal. You should never feel foolish. You were preyed upon.

    • Frodis73

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I look forward to seeing this eventually. I didn’t know that the leader of that cult was now running another one! I guess I can’t say I am surprised.

      • Kay

        Yes, that was VERY disheartening I must say.

    • Ella Raitch

      Kay, you might want to share this again on the new story as some people who don’t read late will probably be interested in reading it

    • Juicer77

      Great review, and thanks for the heads-up.

  • Supper Powers

    Just checking in. Have some major brain surgery and death in the family. I’m unable to engage but just want to say hello. Bunker style-hello. See y’all soon.

    • Kay

      ((((hugs))))) to you, Supper.

      • Supper Powers

        Thanks. Grateful to have my family and friends.

        • Kay

          Here you go…some kitteh love to tide you over.

    • beauty for ashes

      Oh NOOOOOO! I’m so sorry! (((((((((((<3)))))))))))))

    • Sherbet

      So sorry. We’re with you in spirit.

    • Frodis73

      Supper, I am very sorry to hear about your family. Hugs.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Damn! So sorry, Supper.

      2016, you suck!

      • Kay

        Yes so far it has sucked, big time. :-(

        • Juicer77

          (hugs)

    • Robert Eckert

      Sorry to hear this. Strength to you!

    • Paul V. Tupointeau
    • EmmaDaoust

      Take care, Supper. So sorry to hear.

    • Spackle Motion

      All the best to you, Supper. You’ll be in our thoughts.

    • Juicer77

      Hugs, Supper. Take care of yourself and your family. Will say some prayers.

    • OOkpik

      (((Hugs))), friend. :( Thanks for popping in to let us know. Strength to you and your loved ones.

    • daisy

      I am so sorry, Supper. Take care of yourself and family.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Let us know how you’re doing when you can. You will be in our thoughts. So sorry you’re going through this. Hugs

  • Robert Ramsay

    To steal someone of their childhood. Shame on all the people that are complicit in this.

  • Kay

    Totally OT:
    A musing: Why is it that dogs will run outside to potty with great speed and dispatch when it is summertime, but when it is well below freezing and snowing, they just have to linger and sniff EVERYTHING before they decide, It is an odd conundrum. (my teeth are chattering from being outside in a bathrobe..I know that was a silly choice of attire, but hey I was hopeful that this time it would be different. ) Silly human !

    • Frodis73

      Omg, that is the story of my life lately.

      • Kay

        I know !!! Isn’t it just the weirdest? It’s like my dogs are trying to align themselves up with some mysterious magnetic field or such and just take their own sweet time. You would think their tootsies would be freezing. I just can’t figure it out. That is a new development as of this year.

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    Another happy reunion thanks to Ancestry .com? LOL
    (refresh)

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BBEMl7SrsqV/?taken-by=thejimmathers

    • Kay

      LOL !!!!!!!!

      • Kay

        P.S, What a tool to handle a lizard like that. It looks like a monitor lizard, (or maybe a Komodo dragon?) I remember when one of those bit off Sharon Stone’s husband’s toe while they were getting a VIP tour of the lizard enclosure at the LA zoo. I was in LA and was astonished that this was the LEAD story on their local newscast….like really, this is news?

        • Intergalactic Walrus

          Maybe it will eat his shirt. This guy’s collection of truly awful looking shirts has got to be stopped!

        • Kay

          Well…this is the intelligent way to handle one of those…but then of course I don’t think Mr. Shark teeth is very bright.

    • Ella Raitch

      Oh look! There’s a lizard standing over there next to that green thing.

  • Kay

    I’m whipped….so g’nite everyone. Holding healing thoughts for Supper Powers.

  • http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk/ media_lush

    new bollocks https://www.scientologybollocks.com/8000-2/

    Bonus kitteh pics

    • Intergalactic Walrus

      Did you see this “Celebrity Scramble” on TMZ the other day? I don’t think John Travolta has looked this good in years! Ha!
      (refresh)

  • Intergalactic Walrus

    I hope these neighbors leave their guns at home when they begin flooding into the San Jose (CA) Ideal Org…

    PHOTO CAPTION – “Just passed out The Way to Happiness to my neighbors. On Friday, there was a shooting on the other side of my block. This is my way of restoring peace and sanity to my fellow man.”

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BA8F7CliLic/

    • Juicer77

      The Indie Wave has begun…

  • Fink Jonas

    “We treat people no worse than the Catholic Church does” here they go running behind the Catholics cassock, when are they gonna get responsibility for being ruinous, instead of pointing finger, COWARDS that’s what they are from the top to the bottom exploiting kids. First of all scientology is not a church, is a totalitarian system trying to get rid of the Catholic church, secondly the Catholics don’t run away scared from their own church.

    • OOkpik

      Every time Scientology associates itself with a real religion, it seeks to promote the false idea that it too is a legitimate religion. The rest of the argument is always irrelevant in their dirty scheme. Details, shmetails!

  • EnthralledObserver

    $cientology can’t legitimately be striving very high if they are aspiring to be ‘no worse’ in the way they treat their members than another institute (in this case the Catholic Church)… it speaks to the nature of their entity… which is: what can it ‘take’ from it’s members, not what can it ‘give’.

  • OOkpik

    SciWatcher posted this earlier but it really deserves re-posting. This shit has got to stop.
    http://www.pasadenanow.com/main/holocaust-survivor-to-speak-at-remembrance-event-in-pasadena-this-sunday/#.VqrcXyorLWI

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I posted this – don’t know if it will stay posted. I was infuriated when I read about this event.

      “Wish I could be there to share my experiences in a prison reeducation camp and how it adversely affected the rest of my entire life. The sleep deprivation, the lack of nutrition, medical attention, having to run around in circles for hours and hours in the sun with a half broken back, with the constant stream of degradation and denial of basic human rights, with neither hope nor human compassion anywhere to be found.

      I never forget. I am thankful everyday that I somehow found strength when I was at my weakest to escape this vile horrific institution. It was not, of course, as bad as the concentration camps. I am not comparing. I just find it despicable that the very institution that put tens of thousands of others through hell and that to this very day violates basic human rights is holding an event such as this.

      This very week, for instance, Scientology admitted in a court of law that they engage in child abuse, child slave like conditions, child labor, and enforced abortions, but excused it by saying they were no worse than the Catholic Church. You can look it up for yourself for the truth of this. The case is Laura DeCrecenzo vs. Church of Scientology. Anyone can call themselves a church. It doesn’t mean they are one.”

      • OOkpik

        Tears and cheers for you, Hole. I hope this gets spread far and wide. I’ll be re-posting it later, if that’s OK with you.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Of course – I posted it on a public forum. I wonder if a scientologist is “Staff Reports”. LOL, if it is, it won’t be there for long. Which, in itself, would be telling.

          Edit to add: Well, that didn’t take long. It’s already gone! I’d love to see some protestors out there for this event with signs: “Abolish Scientology RPF Camps NOW”

          • OOkpik

            LOL!

          • Christinadina

            are the comments gone? or still awaiting moderation? i posted too…this event is infuriating for sure.

      • Cece

        I reposted (pasted below my comment). Of course it won’t stay long.
        Seems we are the only ones commenting? RSVP is Eden Stein. Wonder if he is a S. But then again ….. I really have better things to do today (smile).
        First Google is GAP “…President, Church of Scientology Pasadena.” Thx GAP

  • OOkpik

    Can’t keep my eyes open. Good night/morning, beautiful Bunkeroos. <3

  • Bea

    So I asked my brother-in-law who is a Professor of Law at a Catholic University (and who specialises in conflicts of law) what his opinion was. Comment below

    “Interesting!, I am not an expert however they are evidently talking baloney. Separation of church and state as well as human rights legislation and case-law mean that individuals (churchgoers; monks and priests….) in the church are just as protected in their individual rights viz the Church, as ordinary citisens are in their relations viz the State and viz other individuals

    A different point is whether Church- run or catholic inspired institutions such as hospitals, have a right to refuse eg treatment which it finds ethically unacceptable: eg can a catholic hospice refuse access to a Dr who is about to administer euthanisia on a (willing, obviously) patient? One such case is making its way through the courts in Belgium.”

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Thank you. This is excellent. “Talking Baloney”. Yep, it it’s not baloney, it’s not scientology!

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        I asked Catholic priests, nuns and monks I’ve met in my job and also retired priests, they are all hugely humbly high character virtuous in their responses.

        We Scientologists and Hubbard so much the case really really “they know not what they do” in our attempts to forward the Hubbard “religion angle” of Scientology.

        Lawyers in US history and worldwide, are the ones who came to Scientology’s rescue on this “religion angle” argument.

        We were superficially trying to make a non religion into a religion, and borrowing Catholic and military organizational practices. OEC Vol 1 “Historical Precedence of Ethics” article borrowing on the Buddhist monks’ ethics system, was an early Guardian’s Officer research angle, all part of the “religion angle” attemps of Scientology to behave religiously and justify Hubbard’s bricolage smorgesboard fake religion.

        Polite real religion people behave religiously in ways “we” in Scientology couldn’t ever appreciate.
        And I’m an atheist saying this! I do respect the vows of poverty that other religions have their nuns and monks take.

        Scientology’s members’ commitment is more “workaholic” oriented/slanted, rather than virtuously aimed at a really religious high principled orientation.

    • Bea

      And here’s my sister’s addition to the discussion

      “Interesting indeed. All churches must abide by the rule of law. Sometimes this makes for uncomfortable reading. The catholic church, by way of example, and regardless of its objections had to accept the new law that they could not prevent or block gay couples from adopting children. They responded by closing their adoption agencies rather than break the law. Similarly the catholic church can only advise women not to have an abortion. It could never use the law to prevent them from having one. In one of my very first lectures on criminal law the lecturer pointed out – we may have a moral dislike of adultery but in our society it is not a criminal offence.”

      • Robert Eckert

        “The catholic church, by way of example, and regardless of its objections had to accept the new law that they could not prevent or block gay couples from adopting children. They responded by closing their adoption agencies rather than break the law.” It is important to note in that case that the “they” who closed the adoption agencies were not the people running the adoption agencies, who had no problem with all treating all couples fairly by the sole criterion of which home would be best for the child. It was the bishops who ordered them to close down.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    What an excellent blog article title, again.

    Tony’s skill as a professional editor and journalist, again, I think of how a future observer of Scientology, were they to wish to enter into the whole Scientology subject’s controversies, all they’d have to do is read the long list of Tony’s excellent article titles, and they’d understand cutting edge current Scientology history.

    This blog is an historical treasure of material on the subject of Scientology, and the titling of the articles is the best on this subject.

    Tony Ortega puts the big relevant sub issues of Scientology’s controversies right in the article titles.

    I’ve never read so many excellent articles ever by one author on Scientology.

    Were there to be awards for understanding Scientology and putting all Scientology’s history in context, Tony Ortega’s daily coverage of details is historically unprecedented in this part of Scientology’s history.

    • Cece

      And an excellent job of covering the past as well. It’s been very helpful to me especially the articles featuring Jon and Jeff. Data I would not have ever run across mostly because I never thought to look. And here it is shoved in my face. I finally broke down and read one of Jon’s articles one day and I’ve never thought the same since. It’s like getting pulled out of a rudder for me (smile).

      • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

        So true.

        When I was in INCOMM, in the early 1990s, as soon as “Blue Sky” came out, someone whose job it is in OSA typed or input the whole of Jon’s book, so that OSA’s computers (one of which had their data bases of the articles and writings of others) had Jon’s whole book, there to see.

        I one night during the nightly “Data Preservation” (backups, meaning copying the computer’s contents to tapes for storage safely in case the computers mechanically died, we’d still have the content on tape to rebuild into a new computer if needed), I saw some of OSA’s copying handiwork kept on their “computers” in INCOMM which INCOMM at that time upkept for OSA.

        I saw Jon’s book first there, including the other 1980s critical books.

        Jon’s self reflections are so much more than an ex member look back at Hubbard and Scientology.

        Jon and Jeff too, edge fully into what outsiders more educated see in Scientology and in Hubbard.

        • Cece

          Yes, I agree completely Chuck and always appreciate your insight :)

  • Lighthouse

    Thanks, Chris, for another great interview.

  • Rasha

    Tyrannosaurus Ed

  • Kay

    OM gosh….a friend sitting here with me told me that there ARE two legged horses…so I’m going to change the GIF above. That is freaky. Sorry. I will delete and start over.

  • Kay

    laugh !