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Why Steve Fishman — of the notorious Fishman Papers — is today serving 21 years in prison

Steven_Fishman

[Steve Fishman in the mid-1990s]

 
The preeminent academic studying Scientology, Dr. Steve Kent at the University of Alberta, recently set us on an interesting pursuit: Trace, he asked us, the effects of TIME magazine’s epic 1991 cover story on Scientology, “The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power.”

For some time now, we’ve been thinking about that question, making phone calls, and digging up records. The project appealed to us for a number of reasons, one of which was that we’d just spent a couple of years investigating the Paulette Cooper story, which spanned from World War II to the present day, but involved research mostly focused on the period 1968 to 1985. We’ve also spent a lot of time thinking about Scientology’s more recent history, after the year 2000, as a result of our work at the Village Voice and here at the Bunker. But we have some gaps in that intervening period, 1985-2000, that we were eager to fill in.

We’re still reading and searching and interviewing with no end in sight, but we thought we might come up for air after getting our hands on a fascinating document we thought you might want to see. And also so we can do a little crowdsourcing to help us get some ideas about where to go next.

We’ll try to do some very quick recapping for those of you unfamiliar with the period. If you have read our book, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely, you know that the FBI raided Scientology in 1977, finding a mountain of records detailing how Scientology’s “Guardian’s Office” had spent years infiltrating government offices, stealing documents, attempting to destroy people it considered enemies, and engaging in other nefarious acts carried out by an organization that acted more like a Cold War spy agency than a church. Eleven top Scientology officials eventually went to prison, including Mary Sue Hubbard, wife of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard.

Hubbard himself reacted by going into permanent hiding in 1980, and then he died in 1986. By then, a young executive by the name of David Miscavige had taken over, the Guardian’s Office had been replaced by the Office of Special Affairs, and later that year a young successful actor named Tom Cruise started his involvement and began to help with the church’s miserable public reputation. By 1990, we’ve been told by former Scientology executives, the church had rebounded from the death of Hubbard and was at its greatest extent, with about 100,000 active members around the world, and with its leader, Miscavige, determined to get Scientology tax-exempt status.

 
TimeCover

 
Then, on May 6, 1991, Richard Behar’s TIME magazine cover story hit Scientology like a ton of bricks. It wasn’t the only tough examination to hit Scientology at the time — a multi-part series by the Los Angeles Times the year before was another major blow to the organization — but with Behar’s story the church decided to draw a line in the sand. It sued TIME for $416 million, claiming that numerous statements in the article were libelous. Among them were claims by two people mentioned in the story, Steve Fishman and his psychiatrist, Uwe Geertz. Here’s the entire mention of them in the article…

Occasionally a Scientologist’s business antics land him in jail. Last August a former devotee named Steven Fishman began serving a five-year prison term in Florida. His crime: stealing blank stock-confirmation slips from his employer, a major brokerage house, to use as proof that he owned stock entitling him to join dozens of successful class-action lawsuits. Fishman made roughly $1 million this way from 1983 to 1988 and spent as much as 30 percent of the loot on Scientology books and tapes. Scientology denies any tie to the Fishman scam, a claim strongly disputed by both Fishman and his longtime psychiatrist, Uwe Geertz, a prominent Florida hypnotist. Both men claim that when arrested, Fishman was ordered by the church to kill Geertz and then do an “EOC,” or end of cycle, which is church jargon for suicide.

Not only was this passage among the 12 Scientology singled out when it sued TIME, but Scientology also filed a separate libel lawsuit against Fishman and Geertz. Geertz ended up being represented by Los Angeles attorney Graham Berry (which in itself is a fascinating tale, which we won’t tell now), but Fishman, who was released from prison in 1992, was representing himself. Scientology said that Fishman’s statement in TIME was untrue in part because Fishman was not the longtime Scientologist he made himself out to be, and he had not engaged in his stock fraud scheme on behalf of the church. Fishman felt that he needed to prove that he was a longtime member of the church, so he came up with the idea of posting as a court exhibit Scientology’s upper-level “OT” teachings. If he wasn’t a longtime Scientologist, he argued, how would he have access to Scientology’s most secret materials?

Was Fishman telling the truth? Well, if you’ve read his online book “Lonesome Squirrel” — and we did, recently — you may come away from that work thinking that as early as 1979 Fishman was a covert operative for the Guardian’s Office and later the Office of Special Affairs who was defrauding companies on orders from his church superiors so he could pay for his Scientology courses. Or, as we did, you come away thinking that “Lonesome Squirrel” may be the single greatest parody of Scientology ever written. Like on a genius level. (And yes, we mean that. It’s stunningly brilliant on multiple levels. It’s also shockingly misogynistic, so beware.)

Actual longtime Scientologists will tell you that the material in that book, as well as Fishman’s statements on his notorious set of videos (recorded by his attorney to prove to the court that Fishman was a lunatic) prove that Fishman was never a Scientologist, but a nutcase who had amassed a huge library of Scientology materials which he studied closely so he could talk as though he knew what he was talking about — at least to the uninitiated. And once you understand that and read “Lonesome Squirrel” as fiction, you start to see what a satire Fishman was doing on Scientology belief.

Fishman claimed that Scientology auditing helped him remember that in a past life he had stalked the Virgin Mary and, while spying on her, he’d masturbated into the pond where she was bathing and his sperm somehow found its way into her, inseminating her — making him, in fact, the father of Jesus Christ. By revealing that he had been “Malchoot the Antichrist,” Fishman claimed that in this lifetime he was asked by L. Ron Hubbard to help “deChristianize” the world for Scientology.

As we began reading “Lonesome Squirrel,” we realized that some of the people named in it have, 20 years later, come out of the church. So we reached out to them and they confirmed for us that nothing in the book associated with them actually happened. “Lonesome Squirrel” is an incredibly creative work of fiction that has enough actual names and locations and quotations from L. Ron Hubbard’s work that it has a veneer of authenticity. But it’s about as authentic as one of Fishman’s bizarre and offensive similes about women and their body parts. (If you’ve read it, you know what we’re talking about.)

Anyway, whether Fishman was telling the truth or not, the important point for posterity’s sake is that Scientology failed to notice that Fishman had filed the church’s most pricey secrets in an open court file. Months later, thanks to Arnie Lerma, Karin Spaink, and many others, those OT materials got out to the Internet and the wider world, and Scientology was unable to put the genie back in the bottle. The “Fishman Affidavit” or the “Fishman Papers” became synonymous with Scientology’s struggle against the Internet in the 1990s, and to this day Fishman’s court file has a legendary status for Scientology watchers.

But what happened to Fishman?

Scientology dropped its lawsuit against Fishman and Geertz after Fishman filed his affidavit and after Graham Berry served subpoenas on numerous Scientology celebrities at a Christmas event. The lawsuit against TIME, meanwhile, was dismissed.

But then Scientology sued Lerma and Spaink and others for disseminating the Fishman Papers online in 1995, and Fishman traveled to Europe to testify on Karin Spaink’s behalf. A Dutch news story at the time said that Fishman had been working at a nursing home, but then had lost that job after it became known that he was a convicted felon. You can also find posts from alt.religion.scientology in 1996 where Fishman is defending the authenticity of his stories in Lonesome Squirrel.

But after that, Fishman got into another scene.

According to the federal government, from 1998 to about 2005, Fishman was a key player in a classic fraud operation that suckered investors out of millions of dollars by convincing them that 150-year-old railroad bonds were worth billions.

The bonds, issued in the 1850s by the long-defunct Galveston, Houston and Henderson Railroad, were actually worthless, except as collector’s items. But the several men who made up the “Caribou Capital Corporation” gave astounding assurances to potential investors about what those old bonds could yield once their overseas agent somehow put the bonds in play in European securities markets: “It was represented that an investment of $100,000 to participate in the profits from one 1855 $100 face value ten percent GH&H historic bond would yield profits of $1,100,000 per week for forty weeks, for a total return in a year or less of $44,000,000.” The investors were even assured that they could get their entire investment back within 60 days if they changed their minds.

The scheme also made use of shill investors (“authenticators”) who made assurances about their own huge profits in the scheme — one investor claimed that a single $500 railroad bond could ultimately be worth $15 billion.

The conspirators further bolstered their story by representing that the Florida Supreme Court had secretly issued an opinion, being kept under seal in chambers, which established the validity of the bonds. They also assured prospects that the United States government had assumed the railroad’s obligation for the bonds following the Civil War, and that the obligation represented by the bonds was still a “live” debt backed by the Federal government.

When money didn’t start pouring in, the members of the conspiracy had to placate investors, telling them they could also invest in bonds issued by the Republic of China in 1913 that the current government would have to honor, and coming up with other ways to stall them as no profits at all actually materialized.

In a document that describes the scheme in significant detail, the roles that different people played is spelled out. One of them was the gladhanding salesman. Another played the part of the overseas agent who supposedly had access to European markets. But the government said the nucleus that held it all together was Steve Fishman.

Mr. Fishman drafted and furnished documents, consulted with investors both before and after investment, traveled to Europe with Mr. Thornburgh to meet with Henriette and supposed bank contacts, hosted at least one meeting of investors at his home, drafted and furnished lulling progress reports, provided bonds, picked up bonds from escrow, supplied the names of “authenticators,” and sold or attempted to sell both railroad and Chinese bonds.

Fishman raised several objections to his prosecution, claiming that once he learned the scheme was under investigation in 2002, he dropped out of it and even cooperated with the government. But an appeals court disagreed, saying Fishman was still participating for several more years, and was never promised immunity.

In October 2009 in a federal court in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Steve Fishman was sentenced to 21 years in prison on charges of wire fraud and money laundering. Now 65, he is being housed at the low-security men’s facility on Terminal Island in San Pedro, California. He’s scheduled to be released on October 28, 2028.

In 2011, an appeals court upheld Fishman’s conviction and sentence, and it’s that document which gave us such a detailed look at the fraud scheme. Once we obtained it, we thought you’d want to see it.

But we still have a long way to go on our project, and we are looking for some guidance from the experts in our commenting community. Having read Lonesome Squirrel, we have to wonder about Fishman’s assertion that he obtained OT 1 through 7 for his affidavit from Sea Org member Ellie Bolger, and original OT 8 from Richard Ofshe. (As for the authenticity of that OT 8 material, which the church long said was a hoax, we now believe that it was, in fact, authentic.)

Could there be another source for those OT levels? And do the specific levels Fishman put in his affidavit still hold up today, or were they approximations? We’d love to hear from some tech experts on the various versions of the secret teachings put on line and when. Before we move on to how Lerma and Spaink and others were affected by making these materials available to the rest of the world, we’d like to settle some of these questions. (And yes, we’ll be dropping a line to Fishman himself to see if he’s interested in helping us out.)

Here’s that appellate order…

 

Steve Fishman Appeal, 2011

 
Steve Fishman will forever have a significant place in the history of Scientology. But it’s a shame that he couldn’t use some of his creative math and writing skills for something more productive.

 
——————–

Jonny Jacobsen checks in on the Russia development

Naturally, we’ve been getting a lot of email with reports out of Russia that equipment seized in a January raid has the government accusing Scientology of spying on its customers. (Shocking, we know.) We asked our man in Paris, Jonny Jacobsen, for his thoughts, and he sent us this…

 
I had a brief exchange about this on Twitter the other day when someone tipped me off to the original Russian story. So far as I can tell (from the dodgy coverage in the Russia media) they are being accused of spying on their clients. It rather sounds as if they have been secretly recording auditing sessions — hardly a first.

Bunker regulars will recall that it was a similar situation last year, when Scientology’s St Petersburg offices were raided. There again, they were being accused of being engaged in just the kind of fraudulent activities we know they have carried out elsewhere. So far as I know, we are still waiting for that case to come to court.

And it is reasonable to ask whether the defendants will get a fair trial if either case comes to court. This is Russia, after all: three times condemned by the ECHR for its treatment of Scientology. And it has form when it comes to bending the rules to put “undesirables” behind bars.

— Jonny Jacobsen

 
——————–

Miss Lovely on parade

Miss Lovely pays a nighttime visit to the mission in Houston — perhaps the largest city in the western world with only a mission and not an org.

 
Houston

 
——————–

BOOK NOTES
3D-Unbreakable

We didn’t get a chance to include photos in our book, so we’ve posted them at a dedicated page. Reader Sookie put together a complete index and we’re hosting it here on the website. Copies of the paperback version of ‘The Unbreakable Miss Lovely’ are on sale at Amazon. The Kindle edition is also available, and shipping instantly.

Tony Ortega’s upcoming appearances (and check out the interactive map to our ongoing tour)…

 
August 24: Boston, Boston Skeptics in the Pub, Hong Kong restaurant (1238 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge) 7 pm (with Gregg Housh)

Sept 15: Barrett the Honors College, Arizona State University, ASU in Downtown Phoenix campus, Walter Cronkite Theater, 5:30 pm

Sept 23: Cleveland, Parma Heights Library, 7pm sponsored by Center for Inquiry – Northeast Ohio

Sept 24: Minneapolis

Sept 27: Portland

Sept 28: Seattle, Razzi’s Pizzeria, 7 pm, with Seattle Skeptics and Seattle Atheists

Sept 29: Vancouver, BC, Seven Dining Lounge, 7 pm

Oct 23: Sydney, Giant Dwarf Theatre (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 25: Melbourne

Oct 28: Adelaide (with Sen. Nick Xenophon)

Oct 30: Perth

Past dates: Santa Barbara (5/16), Hollywood (5/17), Orange County (5/17), San Diego (5/20), San Francisco (5/22), New York (6/11), Chicago (6/20), Toronto (6/22), Clearwater (6/28), Washington DC (7/12), Hartford (7/14), Denver (7/17), Dallas (7/20), Houston (7/22), San Antonio (7/24), Austin (7/25), Paris (7/29), London (8/4)

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on August 19, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94 AT gmail DOT com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X

    A very good morning, all, as the mist rises over the oak trees.

    A quick reminder.
    They put up lies and false promises.
    We take them down.
    It’s easy, it works AND it feels GOOD!
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml
    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are now included in the google doc under the tab RedXTips.

    Tick Tock, Dave

  • Miss Tia

    the first scieno troll? gotta love that…..

    • BosonStark

      Scieno troll, or the only REAL Scientologist — you decide.

  • BosonStark

    $500 into 15 billion — not bad. Cardone hear about this hot return? I hear he wants to be a billi.

  • EnthralledObserver

    It is very interesting that the first person to publicly ‘leak’ $cientology’s OT levels apparently wasn’t even a genuine $cientologist.
    Not sure what to think of this guy, Steven Fishman… crazy, genius, criminal, geek?

    • 0tessa

      The Church admitted that he did some courses. Just the fact the Fishman scared the hell out of them, shows to me that Fishman knew a lot of the inner workings of the church, espically OSA. Remember the church until now denies flatly that Rinder and Rathbun were once highranking officers.

      • Lighthouse

        Good points, Otessa.

    • MaxSpaceman

      all of the above mos’ def

  • Joe D. Suggs

    This guy is a true American original. He belongs in a cell in Arkham Asylum, between the Joker and the Riddler…and two down from Ernest T. Bass.

    • Joe D. Suggs

      “Fishman and The Lonesome Squirrel have escaped again…to the Bat Phone, Commissioner Gordon!”

    • Juicer77

      I watched those videos before and thought this guy was a few apples short of a bushel. After reading this article and some of the supporting docs, it seems he’s much more cunning, though still not right in the head. What a character!

  • anoni81b4u

    Great article, I give it two salutes up!

    • Tracy Schmitz

      caption what each of them is thinking at this very moment.. tc looks earnest and in admiration. DM looks devious combined with “i got you fool”…

  • endoftheQ

    Hey, don’t forget, it’s World Humanitarian Day today, $cientology is holding open house events around the globe, staffed by volunteer ministers. *rolls eyes*

    • endoftheQ

      (refresh, svp)

      • Juicer77

        Bring your friends and they’ll be treated inhumanely, too! Ick. Good find!

      • April

        The absence of a properly placed comma in that last paragraph is making my grammar nazi eye twitch.

  • 0tessa

    When the Church of Scientology says you are a ‘pathological liar’, then you must have said a lot of things that are true about that church.

  • Jeb Burton

    If he was the father of Jesus, doesn’t that make him…. This guy should be the poster boy for Scientology. He is what I think of as a typical scientologist. They would commit any crime for the cult.

    • GrandEclectus

      Then they get sold down the river by the cult when they mess up with the law.

      People diverting their business or scam business funds into the cult, seem to be par for the course (sts). They didn’t mind taking Fishman’s cash and encouraging his madness and delusions when he was giving it to the cult.

      Unreal! A real circus case!

      • Rex Fowler, Steve Brackett, here’s a prosecutor’s blog that goes over the former case:

        Critics believed that many of the abusive financial practices of the church would become evidence in the trial. The governing financial policy of scientology is, according to Hubbard, to “MAKE MONEY, MAKE MORE MONEY, MAKE OTHERS PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MONEY.” According to former members, the church practices “crush regging” where high-pressure sales tactics are employed and the registrars are directed to: “rob the person of every opportunity to say ‘No’”. This “art of hard sell” is incorporated into the sacred and copyrighted writings of the church. The critics were, however, disappointed; Judge Francis Wasserman, who presided over Fowler’s trial, allowed very little evidence of Fowler’s faith and no evidence of the abusive practices previously alleged – a decision that shortened the trial immeasurably and caused many critics to cry conspiracy. Judge Wasserman’s decision was correct – this evidence, while interesting, had little relevance to the charge of murder.

        Fowler and his wife had been dedicated scientologists for several decades; both had attained the revered status of OT. While it is not known how much money the Fowlers donated to the church over this period, by most people’s standards the amount would be staggering. The $150,000 dollar misappropriation apparently was just a drop in the bucket. Earlier in the year, they had sold their home for over a half million dollars. Like many committed scientologists, the Fowlers had financed the ‘Bridge to Total Freedom’ with credit cards, personal loans and mortgages. With the economic downturn in 2008, credit sources dried up and business turned sour.

        Fowler was not the only scientologist to be stung by the credit crunch and recession. In May, 2009, Stephen Brackett, a successful contractor, was despondent over his financial troubles and jumped several hundred feet to his death in Monterey, CA. He was also an OT and had contributed over one million dollars to the church. There are a number of other instances of suicides or attempted suicides among OTs; some resulting from the despondency of financial ruin, and others from the psychosis attributed to the harmful practices of the religion. Most, however, do not commit suicide but are left financially ruined by the ‘donations’ made under the constant demands by the church for ‘MORE MONEY’.

    • Ardent

      Well, his little tale gives a whole new, and unfortunate meaning to The Annunciation. Creep.

      • Missionary Kid

        Don’t you mean the Immaculate Conception? The Annunciation was the announcement of Jesus’s birth.

        • chukicita

          There’s nothing at all immaculate about Fishman’s fantasy.

        • Sherbet

          Nope, that was The Virgin Birth. The Immaculate Conception was Mary being born without original sin (from Adam and Eve’s fall). Common misconception (pun definitely intended).

          I’ll be appearing here all week in Ask A Catholic.

          • Missionary Kid

            You’re right, but be aware that for one thing, if Jesus was the result of the virgin birth, then, according to Jewish law, he couldn’t be of the House of David. Another problem is that, according to some scholars, the term virgin at that time had nothing to do with Mary’s sexual history, but was applied to unmarried women. Ask an atheist.

        • Ardent

          I thought it was the angel descending to inform Mary that she was pregnant? All the paintings I studied with that title show such a scene. Not to argue, but not being too up on the virgin birth, I’d swear that was what it was?

        • Ardent

          I wrote another reply, but having studied paintings of the event, I became confused. Here is the answer I found online:

          Annunciation of the Lord, is the Christian celebration of the announcement by the angel Gabriel to the Virgin Mary that she would conceive and become the mother of Jesus, the Son of God, marking his Incarnation.[4] Gabriel told Mary to name her sonYehoshua , meaning “YHWH is salvation”.

          Aha! (pleased because I am so often wrong about these things.)

  • FollowTheMoney

    O/T: Anybody heard who this is?
    Blind Item #2
    This B list mostly television actor who has made a living from two television shows from the same family tree is so deep into Scientology that he has cut off all contact with his parents.

  • John P.

    I love reading about financial fraud, the more brazen the better (one wall of my office is decorated in framed stock certificates from notable financial frauds of the last century). So I had to dig in and Hoover up every detail of the Fishman scam. It’s a doozy compared to some of the lame stuff I’ve seen in the past.

    We in Global Capitalism HQ know a thing or two about outsized investment returns, since legitimately above-market results are why we continue to attract significant investors, leading to the usual collections of jets, waterfront estate, penthouse apartments, meals at five-star restaurants, yachts, supermodels and all the other trappings of success. However, unlike Fishman’s efforts, our valuation methods are solidly rooted in reality, and our auditors (as well as the SEC) routinely confirm our honesty and integrity in valuing assets appropriately.

    In reading the description of Fishman’s fraud, I can understand why he hung out with Scientologists. Their brand of magical thinking would have made them ideal marks for his scam, even with the absolutely ludicrous returns he was promising ($100,000 invested today would have turned into $44,000,000 within a year? The odds that we in Global Capitalism HQ could do that in the options market, even with our vaunted skill with that riskiest of financial instruments, is unlikely in the extreme).

    But the parallels between the claimed method for how people would become rich certainly sounds very similar to the secret knowledge of Scientology. To make 440x your money in a year, all you have to do is a) uncover some obscure bonds from a third-rate railroad that turn out, despite the probable bankruptcy of the railroad, to be still valid 150+ years later.

    Then you b) take the hypothetical interest on those bonds for 150 years. Then c) you posit that it would have been paid in gold at the time, which I highly doubt would have happened. It’s possible that some high-risk bonds would have promised to pay off in gold in the post-Civil War period when currency was often issued by local banks of dubious standing, but I strongly doubt it even though I could be wrong (I enjoy economic history but that period never really appealed to me). Since you made up the idea that the bonds were paid in gold, you (d) add the increase in value of gold over the last 150 years to your potential return.

    Then you tell investors that (e) you have a bunch of European banks lined up to “hypothecate” the bonds (i.e., to loan money using the bonds as collateral). Undoubtedly you tell your investors that they would loan at 100% of the value of a 150-year-old financial instrument. In other words, a bunch of cold-hearted Swiss bankers would be loaning billions of dollars to a bunch of Americans on a staggering increase in wealth from these bonds. Banks typically only take collateral to hedge against the risk that they won’t get paid back because the return on investment for the use of the funds is not guaranteed.

    And the use of the funds to f) invest in a “high yield trading program” to invest in other unspecified risky securities which produces the final return figures certainly doesn’t sound risky at all.

    From an investing standpoint, this is like soliciting investors to contribute $100,000 to a fund which will a) sponsor a stake for an unknown player at the World Series of Poker. Then when he wins the jackpot, it will be invested for the next month in purchasing Powerball tickets. In turn, the winnings from that will be invested in a series of far out-of-the-money put options on Microsoft and Google stock, which will appreciate in value by 50x when a particular cool new Internet startup with some unspecified killer app renders their business models obsolete in the next three months, destroying their stock prices.

    So why would this appeal to Scientologists? The foundation of their “religion” is a) a series of documents written by a third-rate science fiction writer. It distills ancient wisdom that’s been lost but rediscovered by one person where countless other seekers have failed to come close to the truth. Using this truth in conjunction with b) a primitive electrical device that was first designed nearly a century ago (longer if you count Jung’s experiments with a similar device) to c) rid yourself of a series of “engrams,” perfectly recorded memories of your father beating up your mother and repeatedly attempting to give her coat-hanger abortions.

    While you “go Clear”, you also practice d) drills that involve thanking ashtrays for flying across the room and talking to walls which will lead to e) your mastery over every aspect of the physical universe including the ability to create entire galaxies with merely a thought, as well as finding really good parking spaces in front of your destination on occasion.

    With your new-found super powers over “MEST”, you will be qualified for the ultra-secret OT levels, where you f) learn secret knowledge about the real history of the universe, history that was apparently blatantly obvious but which had somehow escaped the attention of legions of real historians and scientists for centuries. This secret knowledge, involving spaceships shaped like DC-8’s, volcanos, hydrogen bombs and galactic overlords, gives you the certainty that g) your body is covered in thousands of invisible dead space cooties that, once removed, give you power beyond measure.

    With that chain of magical thinking that has gotten several thousand people to each spend a fortune getting to spend years on dead space cootie removal on the OT VII level, it’s no wonder that Fishman thought he had a treasure trove of potential recruits by doing enough research on Scientology to convince culties that he was one of them without actually having been in.

    My faith in humanity is somewhat restored by the fact that after multiple years of effort by a fairly large number of people, they only managed to suck in about 20 Americans, though it’s pretty interesting that they managed to corral almost 500 New Zealanders (because one of the conspirators lived there, not because New Zealanders are necessarily more gullible). But 500 people coughing up an average of $8,000 apiece in the face of those promised returns is not a lot of money for seven years of work (Fishman’s take was about $350,000, which for seven years of full-time work is hardly worth the jail time he’s facing).

    In other words, the only people that really got scammed were the scammers, wasting years of their lives working long hours for low pay for poor returns. Just like the poor slobs on staff at Scientology.

    • John P.

      Incidentally, Fishman’s grounds for appeal show some really bizarre magical thinking: he believed that, because he appeared willingly for interviews with investigators, answered their questions, and offered to return the bonds, that he had an implied grant of immunity from prosecution. There’s plenty more magical thinking that’s worthy of these “sovereign citizens” who think that chanting the right incantations in court will somehow cause any and all criminal cases to just melt away.

      • Missionary Kid

        Do you think that Fishman’s sentence of 21 years was so long because it was a second offense or because he was so unrepentant?

        It was just a variation of what is now the Nigerian email scam.

        • chukicita

          Defending oneself without an attorney is always such a fantastic idea. Because it works all the time. *cough*

          • Always Amazed

            He who represents himself has a fool for an attorney…. Or something like that

      • indie8million

        Aren’t those 1913 Chinese bonds actually worth something? I hear a lot of buzz about how the Chinese government has to honor those bonds. What are your thoughts/experiences with the current or soon-to-be value of these?

        • John P.

          That’s just another variant of the scam. The difference is the angle the scammers use to convince you that the bonds are worth something. Instead of some allegedly independent “verifier” who will stand up and vouch for the bonds in the case of the railway bond scams, the crooks point to the fact that there is a Chinese government in existence today that you can sue.

          But it’s not the same government that issued the bonds, and there is no way that a Chinese court or a court in another country will find grounds to compel repayment. Not because of the politics where they’re afraid to piss off the mighty Chinese government by suing them, but because the law just doesn’t support it. Obligation to repay bonds ends after bankruptcy in the case of corporate issuers, and when the government is overthrown in the case of sovereigns.

          The Chinese government has been sued in the US over these bonds on several occasions a few years back but I’m not aware that any plaintiffs have prevailed.

          • indie8million

            Thanks for the clarification on that, John P. Appreciate it.

    • John P.

      Also incidentally, this scam, while pretty brazen and audacious, is hardly original with Fishman. These historical bond scams are so numerous that the US Treasury Department has a web page devoted to debunking them: http://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/ig/Pages/Scams/Historical-Bond-Fraud.aspx.

      It’s pretty staggering that people would fall for this scam in the Internet era, especially since the Treasury article shows up on the first page of Google search results for “Galveston, Houston & Henderson Railroad bonds”.

      • Jeffrey Levine

        People were not as internet-aware back then

    • SciWatcher

      Scientology really met its match with Fishman.

      “make 440x your money in a year” That’s a claim 10 times greater than 47x expansion!

    • . . . In reading the description of Fishman’s fraud, I can understand why he hung out with Scientologists. Their brand of magical thinking would have made them ideal marks for his scam, even with the absolutely ludicrous returns he was promising . . .

      Steve Fishman is not the first and, by no means, the only conman to feast on the pool of already mindfucked dupes created by Scientology.

      • Mockingbird

        Hey ! I resemble that remark ! Mindfucked dupes – a new sci fi horror movie about super gullible people you can take advantage of with absurd lies ! Oh wait, that’s my biography ! Doh !

        • You, my friend, have made a remarkable recovery and a significant contribution to explaining how it all works. Thank you.

          Its interesting to note how aware L Ron Hubbard was of the fact that he had created a pool of people ripe for fleecing by other con artists. He instituted any number of “doctrines” limiting what “business activities” people could do to Scientologists. Not that he particularly minded his Scientologists being ripped off by others. Rather, L Ron Hubbard wanted to make sure (a) he got his cut and, (b), any stink arising from meta-Scientology fleecing was handled in-house instead of filtering into the law courts. Wattaguy.

          • Mockingbird

            Thanks, I think he realized he had a limited pool of recruitment and viciously crushed the competition as much as possible. He reportedly was feuding with offshoots from the fifties on. Fair game was on .

          • Exterrier

            When I was in, every month or two somebody would hold a house party for a new pyramid marketing scheme. These would sweep through the orgs, especially the Celebrity Center. Then another would start up. Gee, the Masters Miracle Soap was a real trip, complete with people attesting that it solved their skin cancer and more. It ended up being some sort of watered down dish soap.
            Then there was the hydrogen water carburetor thing, and the pills for your gas tank, ….these were all magical products. It was a populace hungry for quick cash to go up the bridge, and just as credulous as they come.

        • dagobarbz

          Within the framework, you were taught to trust each other. Only it wasn’t a trustworthy union. No blame for you.

          • Mockingbird

            You are quite kind. I try to not blame victims myself.

            • dagobarbz

              I am not kind to people who are jerks, pompous, delusional, self-righteous… the list goes on. But they deserve it.

            • Mockingbird

              Well deserve is a tough call . I certainly have displayed all of the qualities you have listed and regrettably worse at times . I try to be appropriate but know being angry or defensive is understandable as part of human nature and calling out improper conduct is certainly correct at times .

            • dagobarbz

              I’m more sensitive to ex-Scientologists because I know how that game works. It’s NOT THEIR FAULT.

              I have no mercy on the stupid and disingenuous.

            • Mockingbird

              Well regarding stupidity it is what I call the impossible monopoly . Because we all are stupid frock time to time, some more than others.

            • B4you

              I heard that! 🙂 so effing true

          • ithilien

            Within the framework, [of scientology???] you were taught to trust each other? How does this jibe with a KR writing disconnection culture?

            • dagobarbz

              That’s another issue. When it’s Scn vs the world, they turtle up. You might be interested in the status of ‘Kha-Khan.’ Privileged Scientologists who have this status imposed may be trusted by anyone with anything.

              Case in point, 16 year old girl entrusted to a Kha-Khan’s care. Well, she wound up being abused and raped, but that’s not the point. The point is, you can TRUST a Kha-Khan. Scientology says so.

      • dagobarbz

        He’s not the only one to do hard time for it either. Reed Slatkin

        • Mockingbird

          Oh yeah that’s right ! I have a good memory but Scientology has so many criminals it’s hard to even keep them straight.

    • chukicita

      I think you’re, pardon the pun, right on the money with your assessment of Fishman.

      It’s useless to try to figure out if he is or was sincere about anything. But it’s easy to understand that, whatever his motivations, he was certainly attracted to all that magically delicious money that Scientology is all about.

    • Richard

      Here’s another drill that Scientologists do, apart from thanking ashtrays for flying across the room.
      From a flier sent out by AOSH EU in Copenhagen that I received yesterday …

      • Sid

        How come their bottles look so much more elegant than ours did?

        • beauty for ashes

          I bet that’s the only nice one in the room!

      • Mockingbird

        Is that a new AA drill ?

    • OTVIIIisGrrr8!
      • John P.

        Freaking brilliant! I want a real one to frame and hang on my Wall of Shame.

        • Freaking amazing, almost as amazing as the number of people whose fascination with all things Scientology engage their creative juices/unflat justice buttons here at the Bunker.

      • Mockingbird

        Awesome !!

      • indie8million

        Bwahahaha! Now, if I could only get back to Venus to redeem that…

    • Exterrier

      I did not realize how much I have missed you, John P., til I just now read this. Great stuff. You elevate this site to even greater heights.

    • Verve

      3 Questions I need answered before I invest-
      1) Is the poker player a guy or gal?
      2) What numbers (or combo of numbers) are you using for the Powerball?
      3) Is the new internet startup run by monkeys?

      Because only if a female monkey poker player using an inverted reverse Fibonacci sequence is involved do I trust you. I, too, have standards. As weird as they may be. Good day, sir!

      (edit- Mrs. Verve just looked over my shoulder and asked what the hell am I typing about. Heh.)

  • Scientia

    Huzzah!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Thanks for writing about Steven Fishman. I had no idea that he was in jail. I am sorry, I notice that many Scientologists get into trouble with the law either during their association with the cult or after they leave. I don’t know if it a disproportionate number or if they are the ones I end up reading about.

    Thanks for the request for ideas about where to go next. First, the blog is great. I never miss it. Reading it is the first thing I do each morning.

    Interviews– Xenu.net used to have a weekly summation of Scientology news. As with today’s article on Fishman it would be interesting to see where some of the people mentioned in those summations are now.

    Activist information– Where are the pickets, petitions, letter writing campaigns?

    Talk to Anonymi and Old Guard– Where did things work in the campaign against Scientology? Where did things go wrong?

    Bob Minton– Has there been an article on how he changed the climate in the campaign against Scientology?

    Interview Current Scientologists if possible– Some are connected to the readers of this blog as old friends or family. It would be nice to know what they say about their involvement. Are there any spokesmen left? Are there any who will speak for themselves?

    Interview Freezoners about the good and bad they have gotten from Scientology and why they stay with it.

    • Tony Ortega

      I meant where to go next about the Fishman Papers. But thanks for the suggestions.

  • Simi Valley

    In 1995, OSA organized a campaign among local clams to babysit the Fishman documents at LA Superior Court at 111 N. Hill Street. The idea was that clams would be scheduled to serve a slot of time when they would borrow the exhibits from the court clerk and sit with them in the adjacent reading area, so that no wogs could borrow them and read the Oatee materials. If you were not Oatee III or above yourself, you had to use your own integrity to keep from reading the dox. This went on for a number of months.

  • Simi Valley

    Link to Lonesome Squirrel:
    http://fishman.home.xs4all.nl/ls/ls01.html

    • Exterrier

      Thank you. Gee, is it detailed and inventive. Don’t know how anyone could or would read it all.

  • Richard

    “But we have some gaps in that intervening period, 1985-2000, that we were eager to fill in.”

    These were the exact years that I was involved in Scientology!

    However, I knew nothing about Fishman or the Time magazine article, or the 416 million dollar lawsuit.

    Not only that, I literally knew nothing about any story that mentioned anything bad about Scientology.

    To you never-ins here on The Bunker, by now many of you are so well informed on Scientology history, that this will not sound surprising to you. But to many other people, it could certainly sound illogical that someone could be involved in a so called ‘religion’ for so many years and at the same time know absolutely nothing about how corrupt that religion actually is.

    It is fascinating reading all these stories now. And to think, while all these sinister doings were going on, I was, at the very same time, trying to make myself a better person using Scientology. Actually, it’s frightening, if I think about it today.

    To me, this could never happen now.

    Why?

    Because now, if I want to find out something, I click on the internet, and somewhere there, the truth is written.

    But back then, there was no internet and even when there was one, it was prohibited and hence all of us Scientologists never ever looked at it, out of fear that it would ruin our future existence.

    And because of this, Scientology still manages to keep its flock ignorant of the facts surrounding its history.

    • EnthralledObserver

      So what was it that led you to get out then?

      • Richard

        I looked at the internet one day. This was about three years ago.

        Obviously I had been having serious doubts about Scientology and I hadn’t been “on lines” for years, but all the same, it took immense courage to write in “Scientology” as a Google search.

        At first, I actually couldn’t believe what I was reading. In the end, I spent two whole days and nights, almost non-stop, reading stories.
        After about 48 hours, with my eyes almost bulging out of their sockets, I stopped, stood up, and said out loud to myself these very words, “I abhor Scientology.”

        It felt good and for the first time in almost 25 years, I knew, once again, who I really am.

        • Juicer77

          Thank you for having the courage to do that Google search. It is great to have you here.

        • chukicita

          I’m really glad you’re out, Richard. And that we get to know who you really are, too. 😀

        • Kestrel

          “It felt good and for the first time in almost 25 years, I knew, once again, who I really am.”
          Beautiful, and congratulations!

        • Mockingbird

          You got the EP of OT VIII ! Congratulations !

          • SciWatcher

            Better than OT VIII! With OT VIII, you only find out what you’re not. This is more like the EP of OT XVI. Which we all know exists.

          • B4you

            He did 🙂 We all can!

            • Mockingbird

              😀

        • Mike Leopold

          Good for you, Richard. I’m glad you found the exit.

        • Allie

          I love reading/hearing stories about ppl who act on their doubts about Scientology,
          decide to check the internet and then become obsessed with learning as much as possible – reading for days everything written and finally learning the truth.
          “I abhor Scientology” and have found out “who I really am”. Delightful words.
          Congrats Richard for your bravery, obsession and for getting out and enjoying true freedom. ((Hugs))

        • LongtimeLurker

          Holy crap Richard.

          Thank you for that.

          Glad you’re out.

    • pluvo

      “Not only that, I literally knew nothing about any story that mentioned anything bad about Scientology.”

      Seeing the “Time Magazine, Scientology the Cult of Creed”, I remember vaguely that we were warned
      about reading anything critical about Scientology. It was the slogan “Don’t read “x” (and later don’t go on the Internet) because there would be OTIII-material in it.

      It was not only the myth (that Scientologist were made to believe) that they would catch pneumonia
      and die, it was also the fact that you would ‘mess up your case” reading higher level material.

      One of the methods to keep Scientologists away from reading anything negative about Scientology was
      to tell them that there would be OTIII material. Besides that, it meant you were ‘out-ethics’ when reading anything ‘entheta’ (critical about Scientology) which would get one into ‘ethics’-trouble and entail getting sec checked, at least.

      When I was staring to read the sites critical of the CoS, I was at a point of no-return; I was going over to the ‘dark side’. Luckily.

      • Richard

        It was the moment when I actually clicked “Enter” on the computer that I realized that this was the point of no return.
        “And if there really is something to Scientology and it’s me that doesn’t understand it” was one of my last thoughts.
        Clicking “Enter” meant that I was going to the other side.
        By then it would be too late. I was going to risk my eternity!
        It sound ridiculous, doesn’t it?

        • pluvo

          It IS ridicules. Same here. I remember the “enter” episode. The instilled fear which is having you in its grip is tremendous.
          I remember when I put by mistake my name in a comment on an ‘SP’ blog. When I realized it, it was too late. I had the creeping horrors and I was frantically pacing up and down the room, listing what would happen now and what OSA would do to me. After I was finished with listing, I realized that it was implanted fear and I burst out laughing. I couldn’t stop laughing because the whole situation was so grotesque.

          “Scientology: It’s All About Threats and Fear”: https://therealaskthescientologist.wordpress.com/2012/10/21/scientology-its-all-about-threats-and-fear/#comments

          “This isn’t just fear of what the church will do to them because they just left, it is the reaction to living for years under the constant threats, explicit and implicit, from the Church of Scientology. After a while, it just becomes normal to live in fear.”

          • Susan_Qbird_Poche

            You & Truthiwant… working in “darkness”… then Bam! Hit Enter! And all the colors rain down upon you! This is so cool! To hear how you found your way out. XD

          • Allie

            The instilled fear is tremendous and it just becomes normal to live in fear.
            These comments just make me rage with fury. I’m so glad, Pluvo, that you hit the enter button and learned the truth. Your description was fabulous – I could see you pacing the floor and then laughing at the ridiculousness of it all. Kudos to you and thanks for sharing your story with us.

            • pluvo

              Thanks Allie. But guess what – that was after I was already one decade (physically) OUT – but still trapped mentally.
              “Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Believe” is named aptly.

            • Allie

              Wow, that really shows what a grip Scn really has on ppl and how long it takes some ppl to get rid of the bullshit. So good that you are out & free
              and living well, the best revenge. Cheers to you, pluvo

        • Judith Sylvester

          Only to someone who is not able to put themselves in your shoes. I could really feel your state of mind, reading that. Congratulations on your emergence into the light. May it be with you forever.

      • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

        The ‘dark side’ is lucky to have you. 🙂

        • pluvo

          Thank you! 🙂

    • B4you

      “Scientology still manages to keep its flock ignorant of the facts surrounding its history”

      IMO: There is a whole new kind of people in the org’s (public’s) They don’t care about his Mind “tek” They don’t care about Auditing – They do care about donating and attending to the weekly events in local org’s in crowds. Why? I have no effing clue!

      I was on staff in 2004 and saw how public dressed up for “church” attended to SO events like never before, donating millions of there banks money to a scam that old-timers would never do and thus left or went to hiding. But the new ones, they are more WISE affiliated and from other front-groups making money on the side, using LRH business “tek”.

      I think they know about the internet by now, but i see the $ in there eyes, they are all in on the scam and just want to mingle with the Elite. It’s More like a Tony Robbins pep talk scam. That’s also why characters like Bob Duggan is very important, they all want to be like him.

      $cientology has nothing to do with Scientology.

      • Richard

        There are two types of Scientologists.
        There are the true believers in Scientology and then there are the people profitting from Scientology, mostly by using the sales techniques. Many of the people in the second category, don’t give a damn about looking at the internet. If they can use the scam for their own scam, then the rest has no importance.
        However, there are still many people who are afraid to look at the internet, thinking that it could ruin their eternity.

        • B4you

          I agree, i was scared like shit in 1995 when i downloaded the Fishman OT 1-8 and sorta read it. I tried so hard to forget the name Xenu and BT’s *LOL* I had to leave the country and all the Scn stuff, for some years, so i could let time make up the facts for me. All those OT 8 came out in the end and told us that there is nothing to it, and i went back home. Silly!

        • Mockingbird

          I was warned it was all lies . I would occasionally see an article about Scientology as a money making con by greedy con artists and think ” you stupid motherfuckers, I was on staff and in the Sea Org – we don’t make any money ! “And see a few other gross inaccuracies and just never read anything else.

          • B4you

            Exactly. I needed prof from some high ranking OT’s that exposed the scam, then i was reading! And here i am 🙂

    • Racnad

      The internet is prohibited??? I seem to remember the scam where Scientologists were sent CD’s to help them make cookie-cutter sites with their names (supposedly to crowd out sites like Operation Clambake from search engine results), which also installed an application to block sites and search terms critical of Scientology. Even today I know of several Scientologists with Facebook pages.

      • Richard

        The part where someone is critical to Scientology is prohibited.
        That famous CD contained a piece of software, unknown to anyone, that would cut out any sites against Scientology on a search. The Scientologists thought it was a CD to create their own site.

        • Allie

          Sneaky bastards that Church. They sure don’t trust their parishioners do they
          not to look at the internet. So install secret software to prohibit it. What a scam!

    • There may be people out there who were in Scientology during that period who experienced things that did not make sense to them then, but do now, due to the information they have absorbed since they left.

      I’m sure ex-Scientologists must have experienced many ‘so that was what was really happening’ moments – which might also be provoked by Tony’s article…

    • aegerprimo

      We were in a “Prison of Belief”.

    • Stephanie Loving

      “To you never-ins here on The Bunker, by now many of you are so well
      informed on Scientology history, that this will not sound surprising to
      you.” You are so right Richard. I’m no longer surprised. I’m appalled, saddened, angered, affronted … but never surprised. I’m so grateful to the X-Scis who gallantly and kindly share their stories with us never-ins on the Bunker and Mike Rinder’s Blog. You are patient and kind and ready to school us who have a million questions. Wonderful warriors all.

  • “Fishman made roughly $1 million this way from 1983 to 1988 and spent as much as 30 percent of the loot on Scientology books and tapes. Scientology denies any tie to the Fishman scam, a claim strongly disputed by both Fishman and his longtime psychiatrist, Uwe Geertz, a prominent Florida hypnotist. Both men claim that when arrested, Fishman was ordered by the church to kill Geertz and then do an “EOC,” or end of cycle, which is church jargon for suicide.

    Sounds awfully like what Rex Fowler tried to do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bkqsQO2njU

    • See below, I linked to a study of the case from a legal perspective.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Three gunshot wounds to the head and Fowler’s defense was basically, “oops, sorry, didn’t mean to do that.” Damn. And the bit at the end, about how the victim’s brother was upset Fowler didn’t show any remorse or apologize, but also that he didn’t expect him to…Yep, that sounds about right.

      Man, so many lives lost and ruined for nothing. Some days, it makes me sad, some days it makes me angry…Today–and I don’t know why–it kinda just makes me feel hopeless.

      • Mockingbird

        How did all that auditing work out for Rex ?

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Just the way it was supposed to, apparently. It turned him into a callous, cold-hearted, self-serving criminal.

          • Mockingbird

            A Hubbard imitator. Seeing his success story from before he committed murder was chilling.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              What was his story? I didn’t see it.

            • Mockingbird

              I read it a year or so ago and after he finished an OT level he wrote about having found peace and love through Scientology or something similar .

      • Juicer77

        Here ya go… (hugs and f5)

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Aw, nose bumps! Thanks for that, J.

    • Susan_Qbird_Poche

      “I’m not angry anymore, as more and more people rediscover their true selves through Scientology, together we WILL achieve a world without war, crime, and insanity.” Rex Fowler, OTVII, before shooting his ex-partner three times in the head and then himself.

  • EnthralledObserver

    Yipes – skimmed Fishman’s first chapter… mention of many prostitutes. I believe you, Tony… there will be misogyny in that story full up to the brim.

    • Mockingbird

      No spoilers !!!

  • Mockingbird

    Good morning beautiful Bunkeroos !

    Steve Fishman has been synonymous with insane Scientologist for a looooooooong time , right or wrong.

    I have been convinced by this article that I will NEVER try to figure out his situation. Not if he was a Scientologist or a fake Scientologist or a conman. Sorry dude I have my hands full figuring out a certain very real conman and his methods and their effects on his victims. No offense Steve , my plate is full. Good luck with your incarceration.

    • chukicita

      Right there with ya, Mockingbird. I met Steve in the mid-90s and something about him made me very cautious. That one is a shapeshifter, for sure, and not worth the energy drain it would take to find any authenticity in him.

      • Mockingbird

        Yeah, unless you have a personal connection or opportunity to help him in some way he is just an inscrutable curiosity. He might enjoy fan mail in prison .

    • SP Wogsy

      Are you going to read Lonesome Squirrel?

      • Mockingbird

        I tried to get through the first chapter . I think it is…not likely to educate me .

  • Panopea Abrupta

    A beautiful article from Tony for the Phoenix New Times 16 years ago.
    Fishman gets a mention in there:

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/double-crossed-6431852

    • Juicer77

      (Sort of) laughing so hard at the Christmas concert image with celebrities dashing around trying to avoid getting handed subpoenas.

      • Sunny

        I remember when it happened, because I was at the Gala. The Security Chief at the time got in big doo doo for it. They had not really checked the guest list at all for that event (later years they did for sure!). But at that first event they found 4 transvestites at the event (you know how Scientology feels about that! Yes of course everyone got in trouble for not kicking them out).
        Later years the events were tighter and tighter security.
        —-
        Reminds me when Tool did a concert there. Oh my god it was so loud…

        • Juicer77

          You can’t make this stuff up! Thx for sharing. XD

          • Sunny

            In 1991, there were about 200 people on the RPF. We had just completed most of the CCInt (I think we were just wrapping up the 7th floor renovations, all the parking lot and Pavillion were being done by an outside contractor – which is in itself a whole nother story!) The HGB had been completed, and we were wrapping up the final touches on the LRH Life Exhibition. After the article came out, there was a definite quiet panic that was felt all the way down to the RPF members. It was bad.
            But within a few days or weeks, an amnesty came out, releasing almost everyone from the RPF. It even was forgiving SP declares. I think about 10 or 15 people decided to stay on the RPF, the rest were mostly posted at the Manor Hotel or CC Int. Many other orgs were upset because their staff were ripped off (those on the RPF were assigned from different orgs and were expected to return to those orgs once they completed the RPF).
            Somewhere around 90 or 91 or 92 Amy Mortland (Scobee) recruited Dave Petit to be the CO CC Int, which was a huge turning point for CC. At the time we were all still in trailers in the parking lot and had not moved into CC Int building yet. Soon after, we moved in, and part of Daves big push was getting Celebrities in anyhow possible. So they would authorize film shoots, concerts, etc (which is how Tool was able to rent the Pavillion with no check being done on them at all. They were kicked out mid concert, which I heard they wrote a nasty song about Scientology after that. It was a rough day when they kicked them out, because they did not go quietly!).
            It was how Isaac Hayes was introduced to Scientology as well. He was in a film and one of the shots was done in the Celeb Purif area and he asked about Scientology while he was on property and the rest is history…
            Bringing back memories….

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Sunny, I love your stories! Did you feel like that article had something to do with the amnesty for RPFers? It seems to me like management just needed a cheap labor force and so perpetrated a reason to put you all on the RPF. Then when the work was done, they perpetrated another reason to let you go (the lousy lying fuckers–sorry, but exploiting hundreds of good, albeit hoodwinked, people is one of the worst crimes in my book).

              Isaac Hayes…ugh, that poor man. He breaks my heart. I still think he was on the purif or something when he died. His body was found next to a treadmill. Such a shame.

            • Sunny

              Yes I am sure the article and the amnesty were directly related. Had that article not come out, we would have all stayed on the RPF for who knows how long. I had already been on for 2 years (part of that as a minor). I was ready to get the heck out of there!
              First thing I was assigned to do at CC Int was help Jenny DeVocht and Amy Mortland (Scobee) who were there setting up the Manor Hotel – all the training of staff and setting up the restaurant, etc. We managed to sneak one of our chefs into a Wolgang Puck restaurant where he learned/fine tuned his cooking skills. I can’t remember the name of the restaurant, but the Chef (a male) was named Jodie that trained Phil (our Chef). It was a California Cuisine restaurant. We had wanted to get him into the French one, but it did not work out.
              Fun times. Old memories!

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              I hope they actually let you eat some of that good cooking, too!

            • Sunny

              Oh yes! Phil cooked for me, Jenny and Amy every day. And they lived in the Manor Hotel rooms, which were beautiful. So just wonderful meals and atmosphere for a few days after years in the RPF.
              Jenny was really nice to me. And she was beautiful. (so was Amy) It is sad to see from more recent videos (like the airport one) what an ugly person Jenny has become.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Good! A few decent meals are the least they could do for you after what you went through. But it is nice to hear than even in the midst of all that crazy and people being so horrible to each other, some light and some empathy could get through at times. It helps remind us that it’s not the people, it’s the situation. It is a shame about Jenny. I guess that’s what years of being beaten down and hollowed out will do to a person.

            • ” I think about 10 or 15 people decided to stay on the RPF”

              Why on Earth would they want to do that – did they think the alternative was even worse, or had they been there for so long they didn’t think that they could cope with anything else?

            • Sunny

              Self-flagellation.

        • Graham

          Transvestites? Calling Mark to the witness stand. Where’s his shoop of Dave ‘Let Him Die’ Miscavige sneaking into a Scieno event dressed rather fetchingly in an evening gown?

          • Sunny

            They were tall and dressed like ladies to the T. Very nicely dressed up, very loud ladies. Long hair… blondes, brunettes, redheads…

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          I remember hearing about that Tool show! Much later, of course–it happened in the mid-90s, right? The way I understand it, the band didn’t realize they were playing at a scilon venue (which seems questionable if it was the CC, but whatevs) and when they found out, they decided to have some fun with it. Keenan (the lead singer) reportedly baa-ed like a sheep instead of singing actual lyrics, and they invited a bunch of their friends and fans who showed up with weed. If it didn’t actually go down that way, please don’t burst my bubble, b/c this version of the story makes me so happy. ; )

          • Sunny

            I remember loud loud loud noise (not music) and very strong smell of weed. Yup.

          • Sunny

            When security tried to get them to leave, the games began! They were not going to leave quietly. And they did not.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Ha! I can only imagine. And that’s what you get for not doing your homework, CoS!

      • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

        Travolta ran and Kelly Preston screamed when the Berrys tried to serve them…I love it!

        • Juicer77

          Travolta “bolted” and left his wife standing there to get served! She actually got handed one. What a prince!

  • JSkool101

    I lived in Ft. Lauderdale in the 1970s and Fishman’s recollections of places, businesses, etc. in chapter 1 are spot on.

  • dungeon master

    Iirc, in the Fishman deposition, he claimed to have the largest collection of Hubbard speeches in the world – that scientologists all over the world sent him copies of rare tapes. His apartment was lined wall to wall w Scientology materials. And he was going to convert half the world by disproving the immaculate conception. He’d written a bible sized time – wish I could remember what he called it. Fascinating watching if you’re bored and have a few hours to kill. Insert link brb.

  • If he wasn’t a Scientologist, he shoulda been one!

    • Snake Plissken

      He was the most ‘Ron-like’ Scientologist to ever live, he emulated everything about Hubbard except for the fake navy and Gilligan’s Island costume.

    • BosonStark

      He’s an honorary Scientologist, for his remarkable collection of Scientology materials and his many OT qualities.

    • Miss Tia

      He could’ve been a contender!

  • Snake Plissken

    I’m not sure all of Lonesome Squirrel is fiction, I have no reason to doubt the validity of this passage

    “Recall a secret”, Nancy commanded.

    “I once had sex with my Aunt Eva’s dog Coco”, I said. “She was a black poodle. Hey, that’s not fair! It’s not a secret anymore!”

    “Your needle is floating”, she replied, indicating that the E-Meter was registering complete agreement with what I had told her.

    “Yeah, I remember I had a real good time”, I added.

    • Mockingbird

      That sounds authentic.

  • SciWatcher

    Covering up your own scam with another scam–that’s kind of brilliant. I wonder if he intended Lonesome Squirrel to be satire all along.

  • Kim O’Brien

    Oh great …another man who hates women and writes a book about it . Our power over men is that they are afraid we will laugh at them . The power men have over women ..we are afraid they might kill us .

    • Mockingbird

      At least he is in prison .

    • Judith Sylvester

      Kim, Yours is a quote for all times.

      No man really knows the subliminal state of mind, being alone and next to a stranger in the elevator who could squash you flat in 2 seconds. But I won’t follow up on what I’d really like to say about the first part of your comment.

  • what’suppressive

    I thought being being such a dirty, scheming arch criminal type was reserved for critics of scientology.
    I’m confused.
    Again.

    • Mockingbird

      If you were a Scientologist you could clear your words and do some demos.

      • what’suppressive

        Let’s not but say we did.

        • Mockingbird

          False attestation ! Off to ethics with you .

          • what’suppressive

            Scientology ethics.
            Putting the Moron in oxymoron.

            • Mockingbird

              Watch out or you’ll get routed to the hole !

            • what’suppressive

              We are of convict stock, I’m sure you’re aware! I’ll do that time standing on my head.

            • Mockingbird

              Miscavige must break you.

  • Miss Tia

    Whereas his fraud of people can’t be condoned, nor misogyny, if anyone was inclined to send him a thank you for making OT info public…..he did help the cause….either purposely or accidentally…..

    Steven Fishman #17280-004
    FCI Terminal Island
    Federal Correctional Institution
    PO Box 3007
    San Pedro, CA 90731

    • Mockingbird

      Maybe he will enjoy fan mail.

      • Miss Tia

        i’m sure he would enjoy some mail…..

        • Judith Sylvester

          Trying to get caught up with the fan mail of Charles Manson will give him another goal.

    • Judith Sylvester

      That is what is so hilarious about all these people. What dopes.

  • Snake Plissken

    The difference between L. Ron Hubbard and Steve Fishman is, Steve Fishman didn’t turn his scam into a religion.

  • endoftheQ

    HEY TONY.

    Got anything to say about your “Corvallis” comment?

    I’ll be pretty magnanimous, if I get a proper apology.

    R. x

    • what’suppressive

      (Makes Popcorn)

      • Juicer77

        (sits down next to What’sup — What comment? What did I miss?)

        • what’suppressive

          (as usual what’sups fucking clueless but sure is interested. Has sip of Juicer’s ridiculously oversized American beverage)

          • endoftheQ

            You have popcorn? Really?!!!

            • Mockingbird

              No popcorn on the RPF ?

        • SP Wogsy

          This poster was here on last night’s article late at night and called Tony a name. Not very nice.

    • Judith Sylvester

      Good morning Q.

      • endoftheQ

        Afternoon, Ma’am. 🙂

        • Judith Sylvester

          Hah! I forgot, you’re 6 hours ahead!

          • Kim O’Brien

            we thought this person got some help . Sad to see them here again really

            • endoftheQ

              Aw, use a few cells, or just look up, do you think Mr. Ortega feels the same way?

            • Missionary Kid

              You bought the urban legend about lemmings.

            • endoftheQ

              Kid, I beg you please don’t get into a pissing match with me… If you have any doubts about my “status” I’d ask you to email Tony. I truly, truly respect you, and I would be devastated if I lost your respect. That said, I’m not about to grovel around some of the seriously whiffey cunts that are splayed around the Bunker. Sorry.

            • Missionary Kid

              I don’t give a shit about anyone’s “status.” That’s what Miscavige’s latest scam is all about.

              I was just being factual about lemmings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming#Misconceptions I learned the hard way that lemmings jumping off of cliffs is an old wives tale, to my embarrassment.

            • endoftheQ

              (refresh svp)

            • Missionary Kid

              Good one. That’s a twofer: two urban legends in one. 🙂

            • Kim O’Brien

              like..really sad

            • Judith Sylvester

              I never quit laughing at the things you say.

            • Kim O’Brien

              no ..srsly . If it is who some ppl think ..it went WAY too far , ppl were sending baby clothes and gift cards to them . This sick person “cat-fished” the Bunker ( 1 yr..2 yrs ago ? ) Really not a mentally well person and i think ( if it is who some ppl think ) that we might really be engaging with someone who should be selling pencils from a cup

            • Judith Sylvester

              Oh, OK, I get it.

            • Guess her dad couldn’t get her under control after all. It is really hard to help a mentally ill adult that wants to stay sick.

    • Tony Ortega

      You bear a striking resemblance to a certain person who previously gave me heartburn. Take it as a compliment.

      • endoftheQ

        Hmmmm… ok, I do like kissing… and making out up. 😀

  • Missionary Kid

    Fishman seems to be a combination of a perpetrator of the Nigerian email scam, an imitraitor of L Ron Hubbard’s fanciful tales about his past, and a producer of forgery and fakery worthy of Scientology, but, in spite of this he came forth with documents that appear to be real. He is truly a bizarre person

    • Judith Sylvester

      And for those who were formerly in, and wonder why those of us never-ins follow this, it’s that weird discrepancy and trying to resolve it that is so absorbing.

      • Mockingbird

        In my opinion Steve is a one in a million kind of guy.

        • jazzlover

          It appears more like he’s one OF a million 😉

          • Mockingbird

            I hope there are not a million con men or Scientologists out there .

            • jazzlover

              “One never knows, do one?”

            • Mockingbird

              Yikes !

            • jazzlover

              In case you didn’t know, that’s a famous Fats Waller phrase (a sort of Yogi Berra-ism in its own right) that I first remember hearing on a TV commercial for a Broadway play when I was a kid. My sense of recall astounds me sometimes. LOL

        • Judith Sylvester

          Thanks MB. That’s a tip I’ll follow up on, as I do with some of the links and such that you provide.

      • jazzlover

        Honestly, Judith, I’m slowly reaching the conclusion that a lot of it has to do with dumb luck. If you haven’t listened to the Joe Rogan interview with Steve Hasaan yet, I’d suggest that you give it a listen. Within the first 30 or so minutes, Steve brings up a social psychological term which piqued my interests — I believe (someone correct me if I’m wrong) it was called “situational vulnerability” or something like that. Basically, we’re all vulnerable at different points in our lives. If someone/something doesn’t “get you” at one of those times, you escape the dangers. It made a lot of sense to me.

        • Judith Sylvester

          I so agree, although I haven’t heard that interview yet. Tori Christman and I are very close demographically, she being just a few years older. When I read her story, I recognize exactly where she was when she was first exposed to Scientology, and I am always stunned by how her story could have been mine.

          I did go on to make other mistakes, which I can’t exactly blame on Scientology, but the model is the same.

        • Missionary Kid

          That’s why the Moonies and the Hare Krishnas used to hang out at airports. They would catch people who were in transition psychologically. They were also in an unfamiliar environment and they were either apprehensive about flying or upset about their flight.

  • Judith Sylvester

    I so enjoyed this sentence: “a young successful actor named Tom Cruise started his involvement and
    began to help with the church’s miserable public reputation.”

    What exactly does that mean, help mitigate its previous misery, or help build its current misery? Unless it is my imagination, I notice that your writing style Tony is becoming increasingly acerbic, and I really dig it!

    • Juicer77

      Irony. 🙂

      • jazzlover

        Personally, I like to call it “twisted sarcasm” 🙂 But hey, that may just be my jaded NY bias talking 😉

        • Juicer77

          I like your term, but the word “irony” has such a flavor of truth after years and years of Fail. 🙂

          • jazzlover

            Couldn’t agree more!

        • Robert Eckert

          Snarkasm

  • Science Doc

    Terminal Island is not a pretty place, but you do get a view of marine traffic, from sail boats to container ships, passing through one side of the Port of LA. The air quality must be horrible there most days. Manson did some time there in the early 60s I believe.

    The story suggests that the ultimate test of a world class sociopath is an eagerness to charm a grand jury that is obviously closing in on his criminal misdeeds.

  • Mockingbird

    Hey Steve reminds me we can have a great meme PR wise for the cult – Scientologists ( even questionable ones ) with criminal convictions ! Scientology the “religion” with convictions !

    We have Ron Hubbard, Charlie “Scientology is too crazy for me” Manson, Rex Fowler, Jeremy Perkins , Mary Sue and the whole Snow White crew . Who else !?

    • Graham
    • Observer

      IMO Jeremy Perkins is a victim rather than a perpetrator. Medication he desperately needed was withheld from him, and as a result his mental illness took over.

      • Mockingbird

        Tough call. I knew him for many years and technically he is locked up due to killing another human being , so the tragedy he is associated with warrants inclusion on the Scientology crime list. He will never be let out .

        He didn’t have a prescription and he desperately wanted to escape Scientology but his family and virtually everyone he knew was in the cult . He would have had to leave everything including his job to escape Scientology. He wanted out for a long time .

        • Observer

          That makes it even more heartbreaking. More blood on Lafayette’s doughy hands.

          • Mockingbird

            The Perkins matter is personal for me . But I know Hubbard has either hundreds or thousands of deaths to account for. I can’t even claim an unusual degree of loss with all the damage Hubbard and his cult dish out. I talk with people who bury their kids due to the cult so I just feel frankly lucky to not have had to disconnect from my family. The cult only ran one operation to drive me to insanity or death , so I had it much easier than many others.

            How fucked up is it when you feel lucky to “only” get one OSA operation and live through it ?

  • Mockingbird

    I found this in honor of the frequent troll visits the Bunker now receives.

    Scientology Trolls Again
    From ask the Scientologist
    I wrote about the rather annoying and self-embarrassing Scientology Trolls before, but there is something else I’ve noticed that I don’t think has been discussed much.

    I think that many posters don’t understand what is going on when Scientology trolls appear in a discussion. They think that we’re all discussing Scientology; we’re debating Scientology; we’re going back and forth about Miscavige’s Church of Scientology’s lies, crimes, abuses and fraud. Critics of Scientology are working to expose and document these things and the Scientology trolls (they think) are defending, explaining and arguing about that.

    Nope. Couldn’t be further from the truth.

    Oh, yes, the critics certainly are working to expose and document the Church of Scientology’s lies, crimes, abuses and fraud, but the Scientology trolls are not arguing about that. Take a look. The Scientology troll’s posts ignore and avoid those subjects.

    The Scientology troll’s only job is to distract, derail, “enturbulate” and bury any thread that mentions anything negative about Scientology. That is all.

    And they do exactly that.

    Time and again I’ve seen a thread about one or more of David Miscavige’s lies, crimes, abuses and fraud get sidetracked by a Scientology troll. When that happens, the troll has succeeded in their job.

    You might think that the troll would be concerned that they inevitably give Scientology and all Scientologists a bad image by their insults, crazy statements, false accusations and general stupidity, but (this is important) they don’t care!

    You see, their job, which they get “stat” points for, is to distract, derail, “enturbulate” and bury threads about Scientology’s lies, crimes abuses and fraud. If they look like complete idiots, but accomplish that goal, they “win”. Their “stats are up!”

    They are playing a different game. They are not arguing about Scientology. They will never argue about Scientology. They won’t justify their statements. They won’t explain or defend Scientology’s actions. They never will answer questions about Scientology.

    Their false accusations are ironic. It is ironic because Hubbard said that criminals will accuse others of doing what the criminal is, in fact, doing. The Scientology trolls will inevitably accuse everyone of what Scientology is guilty of: Bigotry, intolerance, lying, making up stuff, hate speech, hate crimes and running intelligence operations against their enemies. Ron said they’d do it and the criminal Church of Scientology does it.

    If posters react to the troll’s false accusations, the troll “wins”. If posters react to the troll’s insults, the troll “wins”. If posters argue about wild statements the troll made, the troll “wins”. When posters go away from the subject of Miscavige’s and his church’s lies, crimes, abuses and fraud — they are then wrangling about subjects of the troll’s choosing, and the troll “wins”.

    The troll does not care one bit that he makes Scientologists look stupid, paranoid, crazy, brainwashed, etc. There are no “negative points” for such things. If the thread veers off from the lies, crimes, abuses and fraud of Miscavige and his church, he “wins”, he gets his little points.

    Understand the real game going on. Critics of Scientology are working to expose and document these lies, crimes, abuses and fraud and Miscavige’s Church of Scientology, through its trolls, is working to hide them.

    They know they cannot disprove the facts. They know they have absolutely no proof of their claims. These church operatives know they have no defense against the truth. The only thing they can do is desperately try to hide their lies, crimes, abuses and fraud.

    So the absolutely worst thing you can do to a Church of Scientology troll is — ignore those attempts , ignore those insults, ignore those false accusations and go back to the subject that the troll is attempting to stop. If Miscavige and his little troll-people hate it, then it must be good, keep on it.

    Posted by Just Bill

    • Kim O’Brien

      also..some of them were never in and are just kinda “catfishing” because they are not getting the help we thought they got ..and might not be taking their meds

      • Mockingbird

        The catfish are pathetic to me . Sorry catfish.

    • what’suppressive

      You’re ruining my chances of ever getting a date with Elle.

      • Mockingbird

        I guess we all have our priorities.

      • PRenaud

        what if Elle is nothing more than Miscvage’s dirty stinkin sock that just needs to be washed in bleach to get the slimy goo from multiplying

    • B4you

      This has to be Bill Franks?

      I wish Tony O would write some more on him!

      • Mockingbird

        I don’t know who wrote Ask the Scientologist but he covered lots of the stuff I have looked into . I wish I could talk with him .

    • LongtimeLurker

      That’s me from now on.

      I understand why people (me) want to engage and I am not denigrating them, but other than one more joke I’m almost finished shooping, never again.

      Also, saved to HD

      thx

    • Allie

      Thank you for this post explaining troll behavior & intent. As a never-in & relative newbie,
      I’ve often been confused when a troll arrives and how ppl comment to them. Some ignore them
      and others engage in conversation and questions. It has been exaspperating following the troll’s
      banter and I tire fairly quickly. This post helps explain to me what their intent is and now I can see it
      in the interactions. If their intent is to “divide and conquer” it doesn’t seem to work on the Bunker
      because as a group, we are of a similar mind in bringing down Scientology, even tho there are disagreements from time to time. You’d think the trolls would know that by now and stop their drivel.
      Just my 2 cents.

      • Mockingbird

        To me there are three “species ” of troll here. OSA who won’t stop as they are slaves following orders. Indies/freezoners who think ALL of Scientology would be thriving without SPs like us badmouthing Hubbard and never in trolls. The never in trolls are just…fucking assholes looking for people to fuck with.

        OSA keeps coming and always saying the same stupid shit. The Indies will put down DM but defend the tech and Hubbard to varying degrees . The extreme arrogance marks the Indie troll. They see Scientology failing AND see critical info that was forbidden while in the cult but still often know that they personally understand the technology better than anyone even including Hubbard and they can fix it in their minds. The never in troll can only talk like a Scientologist to a point.

        • Allie

          Thanks for the additional info, MB. Even tho I really dislike the trolls invading our space, I’m beginning to see the patterns of their nonsense.

          • Mockingbird

            Good , don’t let them discourage you, distract you or defeat you.

            • Allie

              Never!

  • GrandEclectus

    OTish
    Scientology Twitter Watch division
    John Alex Wood, our official Scientology spokesHole has been trying a new angle for awhile now. He’s tweeting to members of the adhd community, attempting to talk some sense into them about their false beliefs.
    He doesn’t get very far. They’ve had to deal with deniers before, and on the surface, Scientologists simply appear to be the same as other nutcases.

    https://twitter.com/focusmd1/status/633721692393750529

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      His tactic of just tweeting someone out of the blue and pushing some Co$ bullshit on them is so tired and lame. He clearly does not see how weird and “stalkerish” that seems to complete strangers. ETA: Complete strangers who did not tweet him, don’t follow him and are not critics of Scientology.

      • GrandEclectus

        He was in a protracted war with someone in June. The person he was attacking was brutal. Not sure what JAW gets out of it. He’s definitely not KSW. He usually just shows what a cultie fool he is. He’s not converting anyone.

        Scientology is tone deaf to many things, and being ghoulish is definitely one of them. Just randomly going after the ADHD community is ridiculous. Sending pleading letters to people 40 years after they bought a book, is another one. They seem to think it helps somehow. Signs of desperation.

    • LongtimeLurker

      What a selfish, manipulative waste of oxygen.

      Happy Rhodes Fan responded with “John is a Scientologist, who doesn’t believe in ADHD but believes in body thetans, engrams, reincarnation & Xenu.”

      I then asked for scientific proof or LRH’s war record.

  • Juicer77

    Meanwhile, Tony is shaking his head, waiting for helpful answers, while the Bunkeroos go off in twenty different directions. Herding cats, I tell ya!

    • jazzlover

      You go girl! Reign ’em in 🙂

      • Juicer77

        Oh, no – I’m a terrible offender! LOL

        • jazzlover

          To quote a mad genius who was being discussed yesterday and who was born in the great city of Baltimore:

          “Shut up and play yer guitar” 🙂

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Now somebody’s talking sense!

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            Come to think of it, we should just answer all troll comments with Zappa quotes. It wouldn’t be any less productive than the conversations we already have with them.

            Where’s Q at? Q, I’m sorry you got a head like a potato. I really am.

            • Mockingbird

              This could be good.

    • Mockingbird

      Most of us just don’t know.

    • pluvo

      We need a Bunker ethics and justice department ;).

      • Juicer77

        LOL – that would be a feat. We all have so many different viewpoints and things to contribute, it’s part of why the Bunker rocks.

        • jazzlover

          The Bunker E&J Dept could be just like Citibank, where everybody’s a VP, whether they like it or not 😉

    • Allie

      That’d be true, Juicer. 🙂

  • John McGhee

    Only discovered the Fishman affidavit last year; what an excellent reference point to show how truly insane the cult’s beliefs are. On a lighter note: I received a letter last week from scientology lawyer clown, Peter Hodkin, making a request for discovery. He truly believes that I am getting paid for protesting the cult and has requested that I send him receipts and invoices to prove so. He also wants proof that I am a “member of anonymous”. He gave me a deadline of 7days out of which 4 were used up on postage from England to Ireland, and back again. However, I pulled it off in 8 days; the total twat should have it on his desk as of a few hours ago.

    • Juicer77

      XD

    • Observer

      Scientology: making the able into idiots.

    • Graham

      John- Mike Rinder’s post today shows a Stain Hill poster which mentions “a briefing about the newly acquired building in Ireland”. Any idea what that’s about?

      • John McGhee

        I have not seen it yet, Graham; will look later. There was rumour here that the acquired some unit in an industrial estate, so that may be it. That is the route the crazy born-again xtians and mosques take in this country also; hardly upstat 😀 Nice to have met you recently btw.

        • Graham

          Good to have met you too John. A shed on an industrial estate? Whatever happened to the strategy of buying iconic local buildings and renovating them? I suppose if you don’t want protesters exposing you by standing opposite you on the high street then hiding out on an industrial estate is one way to go. Hiding: minus 8 on Elwrong Flubtard’s crappy made-up Tone Scale.

          • John McGhee

            Yes Graham, 😀 stick them in there amongst the plant-hire shops and the medical device distribution depots. Keep them off of the street

    • LongtimeLurker

      That…is unbelievable.

      What a sad insight into their minds

      “There’s no way someone would actually do this because they think it’s important, there MUST be money involved.”

      and…

      “There’s no way a group like annonymous could operate without structure, hierarchy and a membership list.”

      • Scream Nevermore

        They don’t even realise that they’re assuming that Wogs are just like them. Or so I assume, if they think we don’t do something for free/without hierarchy and a leader. Bunch of saddoes.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Exactly! Hey, Scientology…Project much?

      • John McGhee

        They have no concept of how things work outside of their cult; their principles of exchange have warped them.
        So I sent these off to “the Hod”. If you ask a stupid question…………..yada yada! Or in his case: if you make a stupid request….

        • Susan_Qbird_Poche

          This is some wonderfully funny shite! You did NOT send this to the lawyer-dude, did you, McGhee?!

          • John McGhee

            I most certainly did, Susan Q. Bird. He should be in receipt of them since this morning, as I posted them on Monday.

            • LongtimeLurker

              You are my hero.

            • John McGhee

              Aw Dang! Well I had to give the dog a bone

            • LongtimeLurker

              I wonder if he honestly believed his original mail would have an effect, or if he was just on Lawyer autopilot?

              Idiots.

            • John McGhee

              On scientologist/osa autopilot too I’d surmise

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              Oh Oh oh ~ I wonder if the lawyer will laugh as hard as i did?! ;-P
              (just call me Sue) (don’t get to be just Q anymore)

            • John McGhee

              Okay. Sue :). Oh I doubt it; he’s a fully paid-up scilon. Hodkin is Moxon’s UK counterpart. Humourless wretched pieces of human garbage. Hodkin wasn’t laughing too hard when I spoke to him at court in February and reminded about how he prostituted his own daughter’s wedding for the purpose of having Clam marriages recognised in the UK.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Go you.

              Come on – you have to give us a rundown of the highlights of that chat. Or did you already and I missed it?

              imho opinion the saddest Scientologist is a Lawyer Scientologist.

              And the saddest Lawyer is a Scientologist Lawyer.

              He must be pretty unhappy, is what I’m saying.

              (lookin’ good in that photo too. No homo. Not that there’s anything wrong with that)

            • John McGhee

              Peter Hodkin (flanked and wanked by OSA op, Massimo Angius) thought that I was going to talk settlements with him regarding his ronbot clients; mission staffers, Zabrina Collins and Michael O’Donnell. So after I called him to one side he approached me ten minutes later accepting my invitation (having conversed with his clients in the interim) I proceeded to give him the OT EPs and ridicule his cult. Told him how bad a parent he was for selling his kids off to the sea org, a despicable creature for being director of the Greenfields scientology school. He turned around and said, “you seem to be trying to convert me away from scientology”. Eh…. duh !! But to no avail. Just told him “hail xenu” and waved bye to him and his clients.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thanks!

              Well done.

              What a schmuck.

            • arcinva

              Can I call you Suzie Q? 😀

            • Susan_Qbird_Poche

              If you must.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Also worth noting that – Xenu actually seems quite nice according to this authentic documentation.

          “Thanks Buddy!”

        • beauty for ashes

          I applaud your craft, and dedication to your art, being both a fine artist and comedian. 🙂

          • John McGhee

            Ah thankyou for the sentiment, Beauty for Ashes, but I can’t take credit for the art; Sam did the artwork as I can’t draw for shit 🙁

            • beauty for ashes

              Tell Sam then, that she is like the Martha Stewart of Sci critics!

            • John McGhee

              I will indeed. 😀 😀

    • ThetanPlace

      I’m confused. So what
      did you send them besides the envelope? How
      are you supposed to supply receipts and invoices of something you’re doing for
      free and for your own satisfaction? Any
      burden of proof is on them, not you.

      • John McGhee

        I just posted up the contents of the envelope, ThetanPlace

    • aquaclara

      Dia duit, Pete! I love seeing the receipts you posted. (How did they expect someone to prove something that isn’t there, anyway?)
      I’m sure there will be a very enjoyable part two to this story.

      • John McGhee

        Dia duit tusa féin, mo chara. I’ll certainly keep you posted, Aquaclara

      • Your honour; I respectfully submit that it is logically impossible to prove a negative, and rest my case.

  • B4you

    Don’t forget yelp.com The $cios are there.

    “I recently did one of their courses as I went in there after hearing so much contraversy and just wanted to find out for myself. My finances are not always the best and I’m a business owner so I wanted to figure out how to make more money. They have a lot of spiritual stuff but I wanted practical solutions for my finances without being told I needed to spend another 20K on another degree… So I did their little Solving finances, or how to overcome financial stress or something like that course and it was great!!! Since doing that course (which took me, like 5 hours) my income has tripled. This is amazing. So in a couple months when I have a break from work I might try another one and see how it goes but I’m definitley impressed that a $50 course could teach me so much in such a short period of time.
    Oh ya, nice space and the employees were super chiper like their all on happy pills but not in that annoying superficial way.”

    http://www.yelp.com/biz/church-of-scientology-portland-portland

    • LongtimeLurker

      contraversy
      definitley
      chiper
      their

      Genna H. Portland, OR.
      Business owner. Scientologist

      • Juicer77

        Turble speller. Gradiate of the Delfry Akademee.

      • B4you

        They very new sort of $cientologist $$$$$

  • Joe D. Suggs

    Wasn’t Robert Duvall in “Lonesome Squirrel”?

    • Missionary Kid

      Rim shot.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Reuters Breaking News
    08/19/2015

    New Monty Python Recording?
    with our special correspondents, Pi Thagorus and Hungarian Dictionary

    Monty Python and Eric Idle,, in response to all the aggravation, harassment and tweets
    they have received from official $cientology twit John Alex Wood (who claims to be
    their biggest fan) and his girlfriend (who is his only fan) are NOT reuniting to record
    an alternative version of their old classic.
    John Cleese, speaking from his psychiatrist’s office said that the
    Dept. of Silly Walks had decided against it.
    The Vikings in the new one would all sing the amended chorus:
    “Clam clam clam clam
    Clam clam clam clam
    Clam clam clam clam”

    Donald Trump, speaking from behind a bulletproof wall of hair,
    said that he was shipping himself back to Mexico.
    Mexico said they wouldn’t have him.
    Steve Fishman, speaking from Terminal Island, denied that Joseph,
    a Palestinian carpenter, was suing him for maintenance and child support.

  • LongtimeLurker

    Quick question for the more experienced Bunkerers.

    When you’re getting flailing abused by a butthurt “endoftheQ” in the comments of old posts, how long does that usually go on for?”

    1 day?

    2?

    Forever?

    • Juicer77

      I got a whuppin’ yesterday. Didn’t last long. Very polite.

    • what’suppressive

      Hah.

    • endoftheQ
      • LongtimeLurker

        I wasn’t talking about a ban, I meant how long before you lose interest.

        All your responses are full of assumptions.

        See what I mean about flailing?

        • endoftheQ

          Ah, another never-in cunt, just one not to be sniffed at. 😀

          • what’suppressive

            I need more popcorn.

            • lynn

              I’m firing up the Whirley-pop! (I’ve got some great amish popcorn I’m dying to try)

            • Juicer77

              Here have another sip of my ridiculously sized American beverage 🙂
              FWIW, I don’t mind End of the Q, we debated yesterday on copyright vs. fair use and no knees got skinned. I like some questioning now and then, it keeps us honest. We can be a bit like the kids at the popular table here, occasionally. Nice to make the table bigger.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I added popcorn to my shopping list yesterday, partly because of all the mentions here.

              Then the shitty IGA I went to was out of stock.

          • LongtimeLurker

            I don’t understand this.

            Are you saying that anyone who is anti-Scientology, but a never-in is a c**t?

            Or what?

            • Mockingbird

              What language. I am so enturbulated.

            • jazzlover

              I do believe I have the “vapors” 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              But I censored it from the original for you….

              With the asterixes (asterxi ?) it could be “coot” or “chet” or something.

            • endoftheQ

              If someone who has been a long-term $cientologist leaves, they often have nothing, and nowhere to go. Nadda. Not even a roof over their head.

            • Mockingbird

              I have been homeless, much better than Scientology . By a wide margin.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I haven’t been a Scientologist, but I was very briefly homeless.

              I think it made me a better person. Many exes wouldn’t say that about Scientology.

              “Scientology – still not as good as being homeless!”

            • Mockingbird

              Great ad for the Republican economic plan ! “Don’t worry Americans sinking into poverty – it’s still better than Scientology !”

            • LongtimeLurker

              GOP – Don’t push us, or it’s Scientology for everyone.

            • Mockingbird

              Scientology worse than Trump or Bush , even Scott Walker !!

            • jazzlover

              Now THAT made me spit coffee. ROFLMAO

            • Mockingbird

              We need shoops !

            • jazzlover

              Indeed, but I sometimes don’t know whether to laugh or cry. If we are this ridiculous to ourselves, what the heck are we to the rest of Tegeeeeeeeeeegeeacccccccckkkkkkkkkkkk?

            • Mockingbird

              Entertaining if they understand.

            • jazzlover

              I’m still laughing. Not really sure if I’m “entertained”.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I know all that, thanks.

              You assumed. Again.

              I genuinely don’t understand what you were trying to say in that first statement, and the explanations aren’t helping.

              Is this right – because I asked how long you’d keep it up, and I’m a never-in, there’s an ex somewhere with nothing and I’m a c**t.

              Is that it?

              (Obviously I know that’s not it, but I seriously don’t understand.)

            • endoftheQ

              I was not talking to… you.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Okay, now I get it.

              Silly me, I thought that because your reply was DIRECTLY to me that you were talking to me.

              Are you okay?

            • jazzlover

              Ours is not to understand. Ours is merely to laugh and use it as fodder to warm up for more meaningful conversations 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              ikr?

              holy cow

            • jazzlover

              They are waking up earlier and earlier, it seems. I’d guess some aren’t sleeping at all. Methinks some nerves have been “touched”. LOL

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              No rest for the wicked!

              I suffer from insomnia periodically.

            • what’suppressive

              I’m beginning to suspect that Q’s use of the word cunt wasn’t necessarily a term of endearment.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Ha! I thought Q just wanted to talk about how they like smelling female body parts. Which, ok, whatever floats your needle, kid. Wrong board for that conversation, though. ; )

            • LongtimeLurker

              What gave it away?

            • what’suppressive

              Well, you’re an Aussie, I’m an Aussie and like you said upthread Q sounds like a dirty soap dodger so it could go either way. It’s not like a Canadian calling one a cunt, you know they mad. I suspect Q will not be able to resist replying to this comment with some crack about cricket.

            • LongtimeLurker

              It’s hard to know, right?

              To make it more confusing, he keeps upvoting my responses to him.

              I’m start to wonder of there’s an actual clinical condition at work here.

            • Smeso

              All your replies are completely irrelevant to the question asked. You seem to be stuck on the STCC drill of changing subject of every utterance.

              How can “If someone who has been a long-term $cientologist leaves, they often have nothing, and nowhere to go. Nadda. Not even a roof over their head.” possibly be an answer to the question “Are you saying that anyone who is anti-Scientology, but a never-in is a c**t?”

              What is your point in bringing up your assumed fact that long-time members often have nothing and nowhere to go?

              Can you answer such a simple question?

          • George Layton

            That’s the trouble with investigating first, you don’t want to go through the horrors that someone that was in has gone through and later shared. Also reading about the “good” that came from the experience seems either vague or delusional. Sort of damned if you do and a cunt if you don’t.

          • TheMirrorThetan

            Sweetie, stop being an arse. I have second hand embarrassment for you.
            Stop trying to get attention from Tony. He is spoken for and doesn’t return your unrequited crush.
            Move on and find someone else to fixate on. I hear Tom Cruise is on the lookout for his next ex wife.

            • endoftheQ

              Darrrhling. Tony responds to me. You?…. hahahahah

            • Scream Nevermore

              Even Cruise isn’t crazy enough to be interested in that!

            • TheMirrorThetan

              Shush. notrealbrightQ doesn’t need to know that.
              I wanted him to stuff off and annoy the Cruise message boards.

          • pluvo

            Why the insults, endoftheQ?
            (besides that, it is a Scio troll trait to insult the bunker commenters as a whole)

            How long are you out? What’s your story? (If you shared it, I missed it.)

            • endoftheQ

              There are huge numbers of never-ins that I respect. However, the average Bunkerite doesn’t can’t even deserve to be spat on, well unless they need lubing to RedX.!!

              If Mr. Ortega wants me gone, hey, he’ll push the button. Until he does, don’t forget he chooses to keep me here. 🙂

            • pluvo

              You keep on insulting. Why?
              So, how long are you out of Scn? Were you public, staff, Sea Org?

            • pluvo

              endoftheQ,
              Why can’t you answer simple questions? Are you chickening out to avoid to get in a REAL conversation? You’re berating and generalizing and administering side blows at Tony.
              Well …, what’s up?

    • Robert Eckert

      dtap and lifter each kept at me for days on end back in the glory days

      • LongtimeLurker

        I can always just not expand the Disqus notifications, or collapse the thread, I guess.

        Good times.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Hang on, I thought these were the glory days?

        • Missionary Kid

          It’s the Golden Age of Critics.

          • LongtimeLurker

            GAC 1 or GAC 2?

            • Missionary Kid

              We aren’t to the point where numbers are needed. Hopefully the critics will prevail so no more golden ages are necessary.

            • LongtimeLurker

              that sounds nice

        • Robert Eckert

          When we’re looking back at them a year or so from now, I’m sure they will be

    • jazzlover

      Your sense of humor can be a gift sometimes 🙂 And that avatar — it’s like you’re honing in on some of the memories from my childhood. LOL. If only someone here would utter the phrase “Tough shit” and I could answer with “chew harder”, my life would indeed have come full circle 😉

      • LongtimeLurker

        thx buddy! I like your comments too.

        Haven’t got round to coming up with a new avatar for today’s story.

        Tough shit, chew harder. That’s great.

        • jazzlover

          I look forward to your next choice. However, if I’m being honest, I wouldn’t be entirely displeased if you decided to stay there for a while 🙂

          • LongtimeLurker

            grrr fckn Google.

    • endoftheQ

      You should ask Tony.

      • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

        So because Ortega jilted you, you’re taking it out on some random commenter?

        • endoftheQ

          Hahaha. I kneel at Tony’s feet.

          However I observe the obvious, the “hand I cannot kiss”, I bite.

        • LongtimeLurker

          To be fair, I responded to him.

          24 hours ago.

          Is he in the UK? It’s 3pm-ish over there, so he probably just woke up, ate some Rice Bubbles out of his dressing gown pockets and then hopped straight on his Disqus notifications.

          • MaxSpaceman

            End of is in the UK mos def

            • jazzlover

              Wacky chick who Media Lush had the run-in with?

            • LongtimeLurker

              WTF?

              It’s a woman?

              No way.

            • jazzlover

              I was just asking. And btw, NEVER assume that you can tell the gender of any author by their writing, especially on the internet. There is a very weird psychology in play on the interwebs that I’m sure someone will write a bestseller on 50 years from now. Basically speaking, “keyboard muscles” give those who shouldn’t have a credible voice a voice AND gives more than you or I think the power to be whoever they damn well please to be. In my relatively (compared to a lot of others) short experience, I’ve seen it more than I’d care to recount.

            • LongtimeLurker

              No, I TRY not to.

              I know I still do it based on user names, avatars, interests expressed, etc, but I try to stay on top of it. And I do overuse “he” because…patriarchy?

              Yesterday about photography this person seemed occasionally to reflect some pretty classic “male issues”.

              So I think i’d subconsciously made that hypothesis “a fact”, which is why I was so surprised.

              I shall now form a second, equally worthless, long-distance psychological profile with this person as a woman.

              I will give them both equal footing in my mind.

              Then, I’m gonna throw ’em out and have a midnight snack.

              I still have finished Tony’s actual damn article yet.

            • jazzlover

              Just to be clear, I was not finger wagging. Just wanted to give you my take which is completely based on my own experiences. Some of the stories shocked me when I first became aware of them, and would probably shock others too. But then again, many here have probably had similar “internet” experiences along the way.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I didn’t feel like you were. But I obviously had made a series of leaps. so it was good to be reminded.

              Just discovered I’m out of chocolate.

              Not good.

            • jazzlover

              You see? Right there. I have always associated love of chocolate with females rather than males (for a variety of reasons, rightly or wrongly). Are you really a woman? 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              This is 100% true; as I typed that I thought – that sounds very feminine, I wonder if JL will…

              lol

              Nah, if you see pictures of me at Tony’s Melbourne visit, I think some will be surprised by how butch I look.

              But I’m sensitive as fuck.

            • jazzlover

              I was hoping you got my point 🙂 For the record, I’m sensitive as fuck too, and damn proud of it. Never be afraid to be human, I always say 🙂 For the further record, I don’t care if you’re green, blue, purple or even fuchsia, male, female, space alien or JC himself. Inside means more than outside.

              Now, go find yourself some chocolate 🙂

            • endoftheQ

              I believe there are important things we should discuss. 😉
              .

            • MaxSpaceman

              Sea Monkeys :))

            • End of the Q(ueue) is an English usage (US: Line?).

            • endoftheQ

              If you have a question, just ask. 🙂

            • jazzlover

              It means “shit outta luck” 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              HAHA!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thanks, but please stop calling me Mos Def, ; P

      • LongtimeLurker

        “I’m not a troll Tony knows me” Troll responds with glib link, irrelevant to previous statement that implies I’m some kind of blind follower, because I don’t agree with everything said by “I’m not a troll Tony knows me” Troll.

        Not an actual argument.

        Or very insulting.

        Or even funny.

        • endoftheQ

          If Mr.Ortega wants me gone. He only has to click a link. 🙂

          • LongtimeLurker

            I have never said anything about banning. Everyone here can see that.

            Why do you keep making out that I’m asking for you to be banned?

            I’m not. I haven’t.

            • jazzlover

              Much more entertaining to let subject hang himself 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              He keeps pretending to misunderstand that I’m asking for a ban.

              Or he actually think that some words don’t mean what they really mean,

              It’s weird, man.

            • jazzlover

              Try not to get too caught up in it. We know why he’s here. He knows we know why he’s here. He will continue to refuse to answer any direct questions you might have. It’s part of the game he’s playing to keep you (or anyone) on the hook. Notice how he’s not responding to anything I say. My lack of direct engagement with him does nothing to feed into his own lack of self-esteem. And I suspect that my “getting this” makes him more afraid than a shark enthusiast being hunted by a great white 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              Yeah.

              You right. You right.

              I’m going back down thread.

            • endoftheQ

              Oh, so you’ve asked a “direct question” that I haven’t answered? I’m so sorry, I do apologise for any omission, but please, post it here. I’ll answer by return. 😀

      • Missionary Kid

        Are you naturally a jerk or just an ex who still acts like a $cientologist?

        • endoftheQ

          I hate. Yes. I hate . I hate on those who “hate on” those who have no way of defending themselves. If Mr. Ortega wants me gone, well, I’m sure he knows how to do that. If you believe I shouldn’t be here, @missionarykid:disqus then send him an email.

          • Missionary Kid

            You’re defending yourself, and you’re trying to make yourself be a martyr, IMO by inferring that the way to deal with you is to go running to Tony. If you want to put on the cape of truth and justice, then go ahead, but, be direct about it. Otherwise, IMO, you’re acting like a jerk. If you’re trying to get people on your side, you’re doing a Miscavige job of it.

            When and if you think that someone is incapable of defending themselves, then pipe up and say so directly when it happens. Otherwise, you come off to me as a person trying to avenge some past wrongs by indirect references. To me, you’re passive-aggressive, and living in the past, but what do I know?

            The Bunker has over a thousand comments each day, and, while a lot of them are off topic, I don’t have time for your self-centered negative nattering.

            • endoftheQ

              No probs. bye then, Felicia. 🙂

            • Missionary Kid

              As usual, you’re using your little boy voice to call me an irrelevant bitch, according to my interpretation of, “bye then, Felicia.”

              After saying, “No probs.” that’s passive-aggressive as hell. You can’t just say, “Fuck off,” or “I disagree” or “You’re full of shit.” Obviously, you love sending mixed messages.

            • endoftheQ

              Please. Kid. Don’t.

            • Missionary Kid

              O.K., just don’t send mixed messages. Say what you really mean, and even if I disagree with you, we’ll get along.

            • endoftheQ

              100% fine, by me. I can’t say that I’ll necessarily agree 100% with the post du jour here. I’m more likely to say that I don’t. However, that does NOT make me a troll. 🙁

            • Scream Nevermore

              So you come to a site where you don’t agree with the stuff being posted, call people cunts, and say you’re not a troll? One has to ask if you wouldn’t be better off spending your time elsewhere, in a place more suited to your tastes.

            • endoftheQ

              Yeah, you got a free pass to “here”, you useless piece of half-life, but hey, twat is twat right? I’m s’posed to know that’s all you’re good for and be grateful?!!!

            • Scream Nevermore

              You would see twat when you look in the mirror, I’m pretty sure of that. Fuckity-bye, you useless spunk-sucking cockwomble.

            • endoftheQ

              Aw, I was right, another never-in cunt, who expects to be sniffed at. Ha!

            • Scream Nevermore

              The only knicker-sniffer here is you. You probably vote Tory as well. Sigh.

            • endoftheQ

              You’re a prime example of why the herd needs thinning… !

            • Scream Nevermore

              And you make the shite on my shoe appear fragrant by comparison. We each have our cross to bear. I prefer mine to yours.

            • endoftheQ

              Your “hate” makes me laugh. 😀

            • Scream Nevermore

              I don’t hate you – what would be the point of that? I’d probably go for ‘pity’. With a bit of ‘despise’. And maybe some ‘condescend’, as it’s getting near to dinner time and I have far tastier fish to fry.

            • endoftheQ

              Aw, another pathetic never-in, whose just desperate and needy enough to label themself a $ciBanger.

            • Scream Nevermore

              That should be ‘who’s’, not ‘whose’.

            • endoftheQ

              You’re some kind of delusional grammar Nazi, right?!

            • Scream Nevermore

              Well, one does like to see grammatical standards kept to a reasonable level. That misuse of the possessive pronoun was a bit much. Even from someone who writes like English is their second, maybe even third, language.

            • endoftheQ

              Yes, of course, your saggy tits should be talked about, if only so the boys can avoid. 😀

            • Scream Nevermore

              My saggy tits are nothing compared to the massive monotit that is you. Go watch Top Gear and have a wank, there’s a good chap.

            • Ooh… steady on.

              PS:
              1) May I borrow the word “coskwomble” for future use, please?
              2) I suspect that the ban-hammer will fall soon…

            • endoftheQ

              Email Tony. Demand it.

            • No. I just think I’ll ignore you from now on.

            • endoftheQ

              Fine. Then just don’t comment. I promise I won’t answer.

            • endoftheQ

              Perfect.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Of course! And I apologise for using the word ‘Tory’ (a reference to the useless Conservative government of the UK, not the wonderful lady who posts here) without a suitable age warning!

            • LongtimeLurker

              Fuckity-bye, you useless spunk-sucking cockwomble.

              crying

            • LongtimeLurker

              By the consensus agreement of literally millions of other people, some percentage of whom are smarter than everyone here, you are absolutely, today at least, in EVERY way, a troll.

              Embrace it, loser.

              “In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as etc) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”

            • endoftheQ

              Aw, do man up and show the courage of your convictions, that is if you have any? Email Tony, at tonyo94@gmail.com and explain to him that you “know” I’m a troll. 😀 You should explain it to him.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Irrelevant, disingenuous comeback is irrelevant, disingenuous.

              Emailing someone to whine about a 3rd party isn’t my style, but given how much you talk about it, it sure sounds like you fucking love it. No hugs as a baby little bitch? Kid? Recently? Ever?

              Try; Waaaah!!!TrollingDoesn’tHelp@WhyMeGodMaybeIShouldDrinkMore.

              But I actually do believe you know ALL about boredom.

              The combination of you and something else posted here today has done me an enormous service (don’t bother saying you’re welcome, it could have been any scumbag, bullying loser with no hobbies).

              This is the last time I ever have to talk to a troll (email; IDon’tGiveAShitWhatTonyOrAnyoneMIGHTSay@You’reATrollYouCoward).

              The funny thing is you weren’t even close to the dumbest or most obnoxious, you were just another in a long line of exactly the same loser.

              I can’t believe I briefly engaged you as if you were a real “photographer”.

              email; Tony’sOpinionsAreNotMine@You’reJust1inMillionsYouSadGimp

              Bye now, for always.

              Don’t let life hit you in the face on your way to an angry, angry death.

            • endoftheQ

              You’re worthless. You know how I know? Oh, it’s because I tried imagining the above as a conversation between me and a child. I decided, you’re sick. 🙁

            • Missionary Kid

              It’s fine to disagree, but $cientology teaches that disagreement is disrespect. That’s a huge fallacy.

              I was raised as a fundamentalist Christian, and, while we looked askance at other faiths, I learned to separate the person from what their beliefs were.

              My attitude now is that it’s OK to disagree, but the trolls that come here make the assumption that because we disagree, we are disrespecting them, and they take it personally. They make many indirect comments before going ad hominem.

              There is no insistence on 100% agreement here. There are, however, enough people that will disagree with just about any point someone is trying to make that runs counter to what the general flow is. That makes it appear to someone who disagrees and states it, that there is an insistence on conformity.

              I learned (and I have violated it often enough and gotten roughed up verbally IRL) that when I’ve said, “I believe” instead of “It is” that I’ve gotten much better treatment. For the most part, people here are stating beliefs, unless they actually witnessed something.

              The trolls use a passive voice when they say something, making vague statements, and jumping on any disagreement. You aren’t a troll, but at times, you’ve sounded like one because you state things indirectly, IMO.

              Remember how $cientologists, trying to hide what they are, say, “I’m not a $cientologist, but…” in order to establish that they’re bonafide. In the same way, I’m suggesting that you don’t have to say that you don’t necessarily agree 100%. Instead, I would suggest that you be specific, and just say that you agree about something or disagree, or simply express your opinion as your opinion.

              You probably have some thoughts to contribute. Please contribute them directly. Your words will stand or fall by themselves. Please say what you mean, directly.

              You don’t know me from Adam, and, for all you know, I could be a very clever OSA spy, but I like to see people actually communicating, and not in the Co$ manipulative way.

              I have an acquaintance, who, when he wants to go to lunch, doesn’t say, “I’m hungry.” Instead, he’ll say, “Bob wants to go to lunch.” He thinks he’s being cute, but it gets annoying about the 5th time he pulls it. Instead of saying, “I don’t like it when you…” he says, “Bob has told me in confidence that when you (fill in the blank), he doesn’t like it.” That’s a big reason that he’s now no longer a close friend. He’s a manipulator.

            • endoftheQ

              You’re calling me a troll? When Mr. Ortega won’t?!! Nice!!!!

            • Missionary Kid

              I did not call you a troll.

              I pointed out that the trolls that come to the Bunker often use a passive voice and make assumptions that if someone disagrees with them that they don’t respect them. They also flee.

              You have stuck around, but I’m trying to get you to avoid behavior that is similar to the behavior that trolls engage in. Unfortunately, the way to handle ad hominem attacks is not to engage in them, and, unfortunately, you’ve engaged in them, as well as the people you’ve pissed off.

            • endoftheQ

              Kid. I read something you posted, a lifetime ago.

              It made a difference.

              Aw, woops, yeah, FUCK!!! some motherf— will probably now claim I’m trying to draw you in to my no-ideas web.

              But hey, I’m not.

              That doesn’t mean that that the upfront cunts don’t deserve my take on their FGM.

              Yes. I’m bad. 🙁 Sorry.

              You made a difference. Honestly.

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. I’m glad that something I did made a difference.

              I don’t know where you’re located, but in the US, unlike Britain and the other former colonies, to call a person a cunt, particularly a woman, constitutes fighting words.

              When we use the term “fanny” here, it means a person’s butt. In Britain, it means a woman’s vagina. We are, indeed, separated by a common language.

              Free Willy here just meant “free the whale.” In Britain, it means to pull one’s dick out.

              We snigger at the fact that there used to be a street in London known as Cunt Lane, (which was where the whorehouses were .

              I know women who swear like sailors, and who use fuck in all its forms: noun, adjective, verb, adverb, etc., but the one word that they will not use is cunt, unless they’re looking for a fight.

            • Robert Eckert

              Ortega has already called you out as a troll. You even demanded that he apologize for it. How could you have forgotten so soon?

            • endoftheQ

              If I was a troll, Mr. Ortega could simply ban me with one click. As I’m not, he won’t, of course.

            • Robert Eckert

              He could, of course. You’re not enough of a nuisance to warrant that, yet. A little more of the misogynistic stalking, however, and he will. You know that, Norman.

            • pkatz

              I heard an interesting variant on “I’m not a $cientologist, but…” .
              I was in casual conversation with a fellow Outward Bound graduate (he N Scotland, me Minnesota) discussing the philosophy behind the School (there is one) when he said “I’m a Scientologist, but forget Scientology”.

      • Poor baby. Maybe you need a few sessions with the cans? You certainly are nowhere near Tone 40, are you?

        http://www.xenutv.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Hubbard-Tomato-Gallery.jpg

    • LongtimeLurker

      It followed me.

      I should have called that.

      Sorry everyone.

      I’m moving on to other threads, do with it as you will.

  • Edward Whalley

    …and in late 1992, I was hanging out in the Yale Apple Center, reading alt.religion.scientology. I had just come off a bad relationship with a fellow who claimed to have been an ex-Sea Org member, who had let me read some green books. The censorship of OT materials struck me as absurd, and in Westville in early 1994, I read from the Fishman document as part of my show “Forbidden Internet” along with “The Balad of Eskimo Nell” and “Polka for Karla Homolke”….

    ….and so it began…

  • Mockingbird

    For fun here is a partial list of Scientology criminal convictions.
    When I was in I was told Scientology won EVERY court case . Oops, a little lie.

    Convictions
    1999: Greece: Scientologists found guilty
    15 Scientologists were accused of systematically keeping files on politicians, journalists, judges, clergymen and other Greek leading personalities. The Scientologists were found guilty, but they were not sentenced, due to procedural errors. (In other words, they got off on a technicality.)
    In 1998, a judge ordered the Scientology organization in Athens to stop operating, since the organization was established under false pretenses. According to the ruling, the organization was not operating as a non-profit, and was putting people’s mental and physical health at risk.

    1997: Italy: Scientologists jailed
    29 Scientologists were sentenced to jail for criminal association.

    1996: France: Scientology executive found guilty of involuntary homicide
    “A former Church of Scientology leader was convicted Friday of involuntary homicide and sentenced to 18 months in prison in the 1988 suicide of a church member. Twelve other defendants facing lesser charges – theft, complicity or abuse of confidence – were given suspended sentences of eight to 15 months each. Charges were dropped against 10 others.” The Scientologists were charged in the death of Patrice Vic.

    1996: France: Scientologists guilty of interfering with a witness
    Three Scientologists were given suspended prison sentences for interfering with an expert witness in a Lyon trial. Charges of theft were proven.

    1995: Canada: Scientology pays the largest libel award in Canadian history
    Scientology was found guilty of libelling Casey Hill, the prosecutor responsible for bringing Scientology to justice for its egregious illegal acts in Canada.

    1994: USA: Scientology fined for filing a frivolous lawsuit
    Helena Kobrin, representing RTC (a Scientology corporation), was fined $17,775 for filing a frivolous lawsuit. (Using the law to harass critics is Scientology policy.)

    1992: Canada: Scientology found guilty of breach of the public trust
    Scientology itself and three Scientology executives were found guilty of breach of public trust in a case involving the theft of information from government offices.

    1989: USA: Scientology Found Guilty of Inflicting Emotional Distress
    In 1986, former Scientologist Larry Wollersheim sued Scientology for intentional infliction of emotional distress. The jury awarded him $35,000,000, which was reduced on appeal to $2,500,000. Scientology refuses to pay, and now owes Larry more than twice that (with interest accruing).
    The appeals court agreed that Larry had been badly hurt by Scientology: it found that Scientology “coerced Wollersheim into continued participation,” “seized Wollersheim and held him captive,” and that “the Church’s conduct was manifestly outrageous.” In October 1997, the court found that the Church of Scientology International and Religious Technology Center are liable for the debt.

    1984: USA: Clearwater Police Investigator Recommends RICO Charges
    Lt. Ray Emmons investigated Scientology as part of his duties. He found clear evidence of fraud and other crimes and recommended that federal and state authorities prosecute Scientology under anti-racketeering laws.

    1980: USA: Top-ranking Scientologists guilty of burglary, forgery, infiltration, and obstruction of justice
    Eleven Scientology executives, including L. Ron Hubbard’s wife, pled guilty to a number of serious crimes. The stipulation of evidence included the following statement: “At all times material to the indictment, L. Ron Hubbard was, by virtue of his role as the founder and leader or Scientology, overall supervisor of the Guardian’s Office.”

    1979: USA: Julie Christofferson Titchbourne sues Scientology for fraud
    Julie Christofferson Titchbourne sued Scientology for fraud and outrageous conduct. She won her original trial and the first appeal; Scientology appealed a second time but settled with Julie before that appeal was heard.

    1978: France: Fraud
    Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was convicted of fraud in a trial held in absentia
    From
    http://www.scientology-lies.com/crimesindex.html

    • joan nieman

      To the IRS: Please take notice of the above statement.

      • Mockingbird

        And there are plenty more to add !! No wonder the cult pretends to have tens of millions of members ! If you realize it is tens of thousands the crimes look worse .

      • Mockingbird

        I think they will need a senator or attorney general to push them. Maybe the FBI .

  • Science Doc

    O/T. Looks like Jared has eaten his last Subway for a few years. He appears before the judge in less than an hour on his federal plea agreement. Not sure what the sentence will be. I saw the word distribution in one story.

    • Mockingbird

      What dare I ask are his charges ?

      • Science Doc

        Possession of child pornography for sure. Some accounts are reporting more serious charges as well.

        • Mockingbird

          That’s pretty serious by itself . That is a felony people get lots of time for AND it shows…questionable judgment at the verybleast, disturbing really.

          • Science Doc

            I don’t know, but if it’s only possession and since he cooperated very quickly in a plea agreement, he could avoid all but a mandatory minimum or even get some form of probation, but some reports are saying other charges.

            • jazzlover

              I have to think that this will be the beginning of the end for Subway. YAY!

            • PlanetJ

              I read that his wife has filed for divorce,too.

            • Science Doc

              He had a bad day today. The New York Times published his plea agreement. They could have sentenced him to 30 years on each of two of the counts, and 20 years on another. They could have loaded up on a dozen or more counts and put it into the hundreds of years. A stark reminder of the power of US Attorneys if they ever go up against the church.

            • Mockingbird

              I guess wealth and celebrity isn’t always a get out of jail free card. Bill Cosby may be next.

            • Science Doc

              One could hope.

        • Bert Allen

          Highly unlikely that he will plead guilty to more serious charges. Most likely that he is pleading guilty now to avoid more serious charges in the future. Most likely that he is cooperating with the on-going investigation of others and more serious charges.

      • Science Doc

        Other charges for sure. He’s going away for at least five years and possibly a dozen.

        • what’suppressive

          So maybe he hasn’t had his last foot long.
          Sorry

          • LongtimeLurker

            HAHAHA!

            You ARE Australian.

          • Science Doc

            He’s closer to a six inch and hold the joke about mayo.

        • Observer

          Now if only someone would do that for Jan Eastgate

        • Mockingbird

          Maybe he can get a subway put in his prison. I bet they regret the whole “eat fresh” campaign now.

    • Susan_Qbird_Poche

      there are no heroes anymore.

  • BirdsFlying

    Not long after the Time article came out, along with a couple of other people, I read the Time article IN THE ORG. We had been told not to read it, of course and were careful to disallow anyone that might complain to see what we were doing. We did think that it was a bit bogus, especially the EOC (end of cycle) thing as to us that just meant the end of whatever you were doing, such as finishing up a project you were working on. Nothing more.

    However, what did not seem bogus at all was the “cult of greed” part. That was really real. Although I knew that people in the org were getting little to nothing in pay, the regging of everyone seemed ever present. And not just from the org, but on occasion from the Freewinds, AOLA, CCHR, and any other affiliated entity. I had actually been attempting to figure out how many affiliated entities there were, but gave up after a while as it was difficult to keep track and they just seemed to multiply (which reminded me of an Art Buckwald column on wire coathangers in a locked closet and their sex life).

    Although at the time I filed it mostly under press fabrications, I knew there was truth in it. I thank everyone who had anything to do with getting information out about what Scientology is really all about.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Another insightful comment from an ex.

      Thanks so much BirdsFlying.

      Glad you’re out.

    • aquaclara

      “…I knew there was truth in it.” That truth touched your heart and inspired your legs, so good move, Birds. Stories like yours here are so great to read. Once more, someone is safe and free because a journalist dared to take a chance on the truth.
      Hope you are doing well now.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Fishman’s long YouTube vid has 1 very striking and detailed illustration of Scilonese that have not seen anywhere else.

    In Scilonville, with the ‘proving’ to the mark the infallibility of the e-meter, once that implant registers as gospel in the mark’s belief system, the Sciborg auditor uses ‘early similar’ to take the mark further n further back in an engram chain.

    The meter can’t distinguish between the physical body reactions to a genuine memory and an imaginary memory. The mark mark is ready to ‘go back’ to past lives to find the early similar. There begins the mark’s immersion into thousands of hours of ‘made up’ BS. Destroyers of planets and civilizations, et al.

    In Fishman’s video, the one in his residence, with all his Ron books and scilon-inspired paintings n pictures, Fishman tells some detail about his ‘past lives’ and it is amazing to see, as it’s indicative of the what a mark will do when auditing past lives, creating incredible detail, weaving webs.

    The self-deceit portrayed is astonishing. And Fishman reveals what all Scilons bring into their lives thru their auditing: self deceit and delusion, and more. It is worth seeing some of what Fishman does in this regard.

  • what’suppressive

    Goodnight 4chan…..I mean ‘night Bunker.

    • LongtimeLurker

      ha

  • NewbieMeNewbie

    Did a quick research on Steven Fishman and found these data. Psychiatrist Rossi: “This man (Fishman) would manipulate anybody including his parents, his family . . . . he will manipulate all his life until he dies.”

    Who is Steven Fishman?

    Is he, as he claimed in a resume published in Who’s Who in 1989:

    The co-producer of a film entitled “Alchemuenster: Turning Cheese into Gold”?

    The author of six books, co-author of eleven and editor of two?

    A member of the “Trilateral Commission”?

    A “participant in a 1984 joint project for Interoceanic Biodegradable Foodstuffs Symposium at Dnepropetrovsk as Lead expert witness”?

    Is he, as he has variously stated, a Scientologist?

    No. He was none of these things. If you think these claims sound far fetched, realize they are far milder and more harmless than some of the other fantasies he has indulged in and claimed as fact.

    Since Steven Fishman was none of the things he claimed to be, just WHO is he?

    Steven Fishman is a convicted felon and an anti-religious extremist. He has a lengthy association with such people as Arnaldo Lerma, Jeff Jacobsen, Ida Camburn, Gerald Armstrong, Dave Touretzky and Larry Wollersheim. Fishman’s anti-religious activities date back to before his 1995 release from prison. Since that time, he has participated in anti-religious activities with other extremists, both in the United States and in Europe.

    On September 23, 1988, Steven Fishman was indicted in the Northern District of California on 11 counts of mail fraud, arising from phony claims made in securities class action lawsuits. The claims were made via the United States mail and Fishman netted at least four million dollars.

    In January 1989, Fishman was indicted in US District Court for the Southern District of Florida (Case No. 89-6018) on two counts of obstruction of Justice. The charges were based on death threat calls he claimed were being made that were found by the FBI to be phony. The Florida charges were consolidated with the Northern District of California proceedings in United States v. Fishman (Case No. CR-880616-DLJ) for disposition in that court.

    Church of Scientology staff only learned of these criminal cases when it was brought to their attention by the US attorney’s office that Fishman was attempting to use as a defense the outlandish claim that he was ordered by the Church to commit these crimes. Needless to say, when the FBI investigated Fishman it found his allegations totally false and charged him with obstruction of justice for manufacturing them.

    Fishman created an elaborate and completely falsified history for himself, using the names of real people affiliated with the Church that he obtained from reading Church literature and magazines. In short, he claimed that he went to work for the Church and as part of his duties was sent on secret projects to destabilize world currency, place cyanide in pharmaceutical company products and other similar bogus allegations. These stories are wholly the product of Fishman’s criminal imagination. These false stories included, of course, that members of the Church of Scientology had ordered him to commit the securities fraud for which he was arrested.

    Fishman even went as far as to pay a street person to make death threat calls to Fishman, based on a script that Fishman had written and provided to the indigent. Per Fishman’s script, these threats were coming from the Church. Fishman complained to the FBI, who put a tap on his phone, but soon discovered that Fishman himself had paid someone to make threat calls.

    United States District Court Judge D. Lowell Jensen sentenced Fishman to five years in prison on two counts of mail fraud and to six months in prison on the obstruction of justice count, to run concurrently. At the sentencing Judge Jenson was very clear about the seriousness of Fishman’s offenses:

    “These are very serious offenses. I’ve said that before and I think it’s obvious to anyone these are offenses carried over a period of time. There’s multiple victims. There is choice after choice to commit crimes, and they do threaten the justice system itself.”

    In August 1990, Fishman began serving his sentence at the Federal Correctional Institute in Tallahassee, Florida.

    Despite the fact that he had served time for obstruction of justice based on his elaborate attempts to falsely target the Church, Fishman continued to spread these lies while he was in prison and after his release.

    In January of 1993, Fishman was released to a halfway house. He was paroled from there five months later. Yet he was arrested again in March of 1995 for violating his parole by consorting with other convicted felons. He served the remainder of his original sentence in a halfway house.

    Fishman’s dishonesty has been commented on repeatedly by virtually anyone who has had to deal with him. Dr. Albert Rossi, head prison psychiatrist at Elgin Air Force base, where Fishman served part of his sentence, went so far as to state:

    “This man would manipulate anybody including his parents, his family . . . . he will manipulate all his life until he dies.”

    • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

      Fishman’s a real character, but you don’t have to post ReligiousFreedomWatch blast faxes about him.

      • Tony Ortega

        Yeah. Bet they skeedaddle in 4…3…2…

      • But ReligiousFreedomWatch is in the middle of a do-over right now.

        • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

          Yeah, it’s almost like this guy didn’t do “quick research” at all, it’s a real head-scratcher

    • pluvo

      link?

    • Science Doc

      How about introducing yourself?

    • Eileen

      He sounds like a perfect scientologist, almost an LRH clone.

      • madame duran

        He (NewbieMeNewbie) is taking a theta dump. Like, he’s crapping Hubbard in one big chunk on the Bunker floor. Gross, I know. I’ll get the mop and pail.

    • LongtimeLurker

      dox, video, interviews, fingerprints and a puppy or stfu

      Did the overnight shift at the Douche Factory just get out, or what?

      • Eileen

        I want a puppy too!

        • Always Amazed

          me too!

          • LongtimeLurker

            gdmit!

            Let me check the fingerprints against file first, and then I’ll get puppies for everyone okay?

            Don’t make me pull this Bunker over and turn around.

            • Scream Nevermore

              I don’t want a puppy, I want a kitteh!

            • Always Amazed

              move along little lady, nothing here for you.

            • Scream Nevermore

            • Always Amazed

              I see your kitteh and I raise you 4 pugs

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              I see your four pugs and raise you puppies in pajamas…. 🙂

            • LongtimeLurker

              SNUGGLES!!!!!!!!!!!

            • Scream Nevermore

              I have to admit i think pugs are really funny!

            • LongtimeLurker

              The great thing about them is they think they’re funny too.

              And they’re getting some pretty good chuckles about you as well.

              …I need another pug…

            • Scream Nevermore

              My sister has one, and she’s crazy! (The pug, that is. Tho sis is pretty crazy as well, now that I think about it…)

            • LongtimeLurker

              PUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

              Puppy!!!! (F5)

            • LongtimeLurker

              Dat puppeh haz a teddeh!

    • Sid

      “If you think these claims sound far fetched, realize they are far milder and more harmless than some of the other fantasies he has indulged in and claimed as fact.”

      Isn’t he the guy who invented that whole Xenu fantasy. Oh wait, that was the other guy, Hubbard.

      • LongtimeLurker

        He was a hero in 7 world wars. He formed the Blackeyed Peas. He was America’s youngest bird-watcher and he busted Bronco Billy when he was 5.

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          “He formed the Blackeyed Peas…”

          For that alone, he should be put away for life.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Hey! He died so you could…

            …nope…

    • 0tessa

      It is clear. Scientology made a enormous mistake by using Fishman. They were ‘outconned’ themselves for a change.
      I can’t help taking some malicious pleasure in this.

      • Tony Ortega

        Where’s the evidence Scientology used him? I’m pretty convinced Fishman trolled Scientology harder than just about anyone in history. Thanks to him, we got the OT levels in 1995. But you don’t get two separate fraud prison stays for nothing.

        That said, I don’t appreciate the OSA move by Newbie, and I’m giving it a little more time.

        • LongtimeLurker

          Wait…you get them for…fraud, right?

        • 0tessa

          I kindly refer to my reply to Sid, a few minutes ago.
          Scientology has a way of stimulating Scientologists to do things, e.g. in order to get money or entrance somewhere, but, if things turn wrong. Scientology knows nothing about it, you have only to blame yourself. The examples Fishman gave, look ridiculous, but what counts is the ‘spirit’ in which Scientology works and especially OSA. It is a secret service after all. If you screw up an operation, your boss does not know you anymore, even when you get jailed or killed. Paper trails are distroyed. You do not exist anymore. For them, of course.
          Scientology burned their own fingers with Fishman. That he could get hold of the OT materials speaks for itself.

          • Robert Eckert

            But Tony was asking, not just for an explanation of why it might be plausible that Fishman was once their agent, but for evidence that it is actually so. He’s finicky that way.

            • 0tessa

              I know. Of course, evidence is needed. Like I said paper trails will have been destroyed. Witnesses? When some individuals were subpoena’d by Fishman, Scientology dropped the case immediately. Who of these people would have talked then and who would talk now? Because when Scientology drops a case, that usually means something terrible (like the truth) could come out.
              I suggest talking with Mike Rinder.

    • madame duran

      I sense you have a raging case of butthurt.

    • dungeon master

      Thank you for this nice example of ‘safe pointing’. Very well laid out and civilly done.

    • NOLAGirl (Stephanie)

      …..

    • LongtimeLurker

      Wait a second everyone.

      I just carefully reread what NewbieMeNewbie pasted here, and it made me reconsider Tony’s article in a pretty unflattering light.

      Once I did that I found myself doubting some of his other conclusions.

      I’ve just now reread all of the Bunkers articles and everything Tony wrote
      and edited at the Village Voice. I also read ALL the comments.

      I’ve decided that not only will I stop visiting the Bunker, I will become the worst troll this community has ever seen.

      I am also considering popping in to my local Org for a chat about my eternity.
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      Just wanted to see how that felt.

      • Sherbet

        Laughing, laughing, Lurker.

        • LongtimeLurker

          wink

      • Kim O’Brien

        just in case they delete ..:)

        NewbieMeNewbie • 2 hours ago

        Did a quick research on Steven Fishman and found these data. Psychiatrist Rossi: “This man (Fishman) would manipulate anybody including his parents, his family . . . . he will manipulate all his life until he dies.”

        Who is Steven Fishman?

        Is he, as he claimed in a resume published in Who’s Who in 1989:

        The co-producer of a film entitled “Alchemuenster: Turning Cheese into Gold”?

        The author of six books, co-author of eleven and editor of two?

        A member of the “Trilateral Commission”?

        A “participant in a 1984 joint project for Interoceanic Biodegradable Foodstuffs Symposium at Dnepropetrovsk as Lead expert witness”?

        Is he, as he has variously stated, a Scientologist?

        No. He was none of these things. If you think these claims sound far fetched, realize they are far milder and more harmless than some of the other fantasies he has indulged in and claimed as fact.

        Since Steven Fishman was none of the things he claimed to be, just WHO is he?

        Steven Fishman is a convicted felon and an anti-religious extremist. He has a lengthy association with such people as Arnaldo Lerma, Jeff Jacobsen, Ida Camburn, Gerald Armstrong, Dave Touretzky and Larry Wollersheim. Fishman’s anti-religious activities date back to before his 1995 release from prison. Since that time, he has participated in anti-religious activities with other extremists, both in the United States and in Europe.

        On September 23, 1988, Steven Fishman was indicted in the Northern District of California on 11 counts of mail fraud, arising from phony claims made in securities class action lawsuits. The claims were made via the United States mail and Fishman netted at least four million dollars.

        In January 1989, Fishman was indicted in US District Court for the Southern District of Florida (Case No. 89-6018) on two counts of obstruction of Justice. The charges were based on death threat calls he claimed were being made that were found by the FBI to be phony. The Florida charges were consolidated with the Northern District of California proceedings in United States v. Fishman (Case No. CR-880616-DLJ) for disposition in that court.

        Church of Scientology staff only learned of these criminal cases when it was brought to their attention by the US attorney’s office that Fishman was attempting to use as a defense the outlandish claim that he was ordered by the Church to commit these crimes. Needless to say, when the FBI investigated Fishman it found his allegations totally false and charged him with obstruction of justice for manufacturing them.

        Fishman created an elaborate and completely falsified history for himself, using the names of real people affiliated with the Church that he obtained from reading Church literature and magazines. In short, he claimed that he went to work for the Church and as part of his duties was sent on secret projects to destabilize world currency, place cyanide in pharmaceutical company products and other similar bogus allegations. These stories are wholly the product of Fishman’s criminal imagination. These false stories included, of course, that members of the Church of Scientology had ordered him to commit the securities fraud for which he was arrested.

        Fishman even went as far as to pay a street person to make death threat calls to Fishman, based on a script that Fishman had written and provided to the indigent. Per Fishman’s script, these threats were coming from the Church. Fishman complained to the FBI, who put a tap on his phone, but soon discovered that Fishman himself had paid someone to make threat calls.

        United States District Court Judge D. Lowell Jensen sentenced Fishman to five years in prison on two counts of mail fraud and to six months in prison on the obstruction of justice count, to run concurrently. At the sentencing Judge Jenson was very clear about the seriousness of Fishman’s offenses:

        “These are very serious offenses. I’ve said that before and I think it’s obvious to anyone these are offenses carried over a period of time. There’s multiple victims. There is choice after choice to commit crimes, and they do threaten the justice system itself.”

        In August 1990, Fishman began serving his sentence at the Federal Correctional Institute in Tallahassee, Florida.

        Despite the fact that he had served time for obstruction of justice based on his elaborate attempts to falsely target the Church, Fishman continued to spread these lies while he was in prison and after his release.

        In January of 1993, Fishman was released to a halfway house. He was paroled from there five months later. Yet he was arrested again in March of 1995 for violating his parole by consorting with other convicted felons. He served the remainder of his original sentence in a halfway house.

        Fishman’s dishonesty has been commented on repeatedly by virtually anyone who has had to deal with him. Dr. Albert Rossi, head prison psychiatrist at Elgin Air Force base, where Fishman served part of his sentence, went so far as to state:

        “This man would manipulate anybody including his parents, his family . . . . he will manipulate all his life until he dies.”

        • LongtimeLurker

          Good job.

  • Snake Plissken

    I’m not sure how anyone could possibly claim that Steve Fishman wasn’t a Scientologist, he’s a perfect example of a heavily indoctrinated Scientologist. He sounds exactly like other Scientologists who have been caught letting their guard down on camera.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roN9C–bg-w

    • LongtimeLurker

      Slightly tangential…

      “…caught letting their guard down…”

      It must be really hard for those committed AND smart.

      Having to be constantly on guard about a central belief of their life, because they know it might put others off.

      I mean, sure I know not to talk about my politics willy-nilly, unless I accept the chance I’ll have to defend them.

      But…

      A) while people disagree with my politics, sometimes vehemently, few of them think “this guy needs help”
      and

      B) I CAN defend them. I might not convince anyone, but I can provide a functional argument as to why I believe it.

      Thanks for the video.

      • jazzlover

        I don’t really think that’s tangential. It’s key, and should be a HUGE red flag for anyone experiencing it.

        • LongtimeLurker

          It must be one of the (many) things that eventually gets people out, right?

          There are probably exes here for whom constantly thinking “why can’t I talk about this to others” eventually triggered further deconstruction.

          And yeah, you;re totally right. Red flags like that are one of the ways I self-monitor and try to grow.

          • jazzlover

            I would hope it’s one of the things that convinces people to get out. Although, I think the “getting out” itself is the far more important thing. Sometimes the reasons just don’t matter.

            Congratulations! I don’t claim to be a genius by any stretch, but I’ve finally learned that a little introspection never hurt anybody 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              Ii agree the reasons pretty much don’t matter.

              Unless it’s “this other crazy cult looks like it could do a LOT more damage to me and society, I’m gonna try that shit out”

    • Beth

      this is scientology’s Andy Kaufman.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      “The between lives area.”

      Oh boy.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Please don’t touch me in that area.

    • Mark

      He flakier dan Ron!

  • Always Amazed

    THank you Tony for the excellent post today. and thanks to Spaink and Lerma, I am looking forward to more of the story.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    A Midden of Whale Bones

    Fancy buildings on a midden of whale bones

    Self-censoring the Web and your smart phones

    Razor-wire fencing and prisons of the mind

    It’s the Way of the deluded and intentionally blind

    The self-enamoured, utterly smitten,

    Snakehandlers surprised they’ve been bitten.
    Yet rattlers and copperheads abound
    And a stench of sulfur rises from the ground

    Junkies blown away, thrown away, busted and broken

    Lies written, lies spoken; like a subway token,
    On the altar of disconnection and blackmail,

    Lives tossed away. $ci is a monumental fail

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I rapped that in my head 🙂

  • DexterSka

    The original OT8 seems like a brilliant fraud, but who has the knowledge and insanity to even attempt it? My point is I’m still not convinced that Steven Fishman didn’t forge it. It’s a little too good and suspiciously coherent for something written by Hubbard (especially in the 80s).

    • Tony Ortega

      Did you see our story on George White?

      • Sid

        It’s amazing that Fishman was able to get his hands on it.

        • Tony Ortega

          It is, which is why I want to dig into that more.

          • Dig! This is the kind of crazy that only Hubbard’s con could attract. Always worse than you think. Always weirder than you can imagine.

        • 0tessa

          But that is the point. Imo you had to have access to certain channels. Security has always been pretty tight concerning the OT levels, almost paranoid even.
          As OSA Int and OSA in general have the right and the power to enter everywhere and do whatever is needed to secure e.g. the OT levels arrangements,, I can only conclude that or he himself worked for OSA (not officially of course) or somebody in OSA assisted him for whatever reason.

      • DexterSka

        I did actually, and he did confirm it. But it was a strange interview, he seemed so uninterested in that particular part of it. But I guess that is the mentality.

    • Robert Eckert

      It’s genuine, as attested by those who took it in the Freewinds before it was hastily pulled and replaced.

      • DexterSka

        I’ve heard that, but most space opera in Scientology is so difficult to understand

        • pluvo

          Pssst… you are not supposed to understand – just believe it … because… Hubbard is source…

      • DexterSka

        I still have no idea what the invader forces are

        • pluvo

          Hubbard: “And that is the history of the Universe, the Human Race, the Fifth Invaders, the Fourth Invaders, the 3 1/2 Invaders, the people on Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Arcturus, the Markab Galaxy, the Markab System, the Psi Galaxy, Galaxy 82 …”

          http://www.skeptictank.org/gen2/gen00081.htm

  • BosonStark

    It’s odd that Fishman’s RR bond scam was narrow, when he knew Scientology, a successful scam, was so expansive and broad.

    Fishman could have written a book, HOW TO BECOME A BILLIONAIRE BY THE TIME YOU ARE 30, and then show people how to start a Scientology-like religious scam.

    Would it have mattered that Fishman wasn’t a billionaire? Hell no, Hubbard wasn’t clear or OT either. You don’t have to be what you’re promising. You only have to give people hope that they can attain these lofty goals.

    • Miss Tia

      niblet isn’t clear or OT either, i don’t believe….wait, he might be clear…..but he doesn’t even do auditing……

      • LongtimeLurker

        For what it’s worth from an old thread at exscn.net “If I remember correctly, DM is (per reports) mid-OTVII -and no longer auditing on that Level – he is a trained auditor and C/S.”

        Partially recalled from ‘Inside Scientology’ by Janet Reitman.

        Others there agreed with the auditor, C/S part but no one piped up on the OT VII.

        Do you have to be OT to be C/S?

        (there’s a goddamn sentence I’m surprised to find myself writing)

        • LongtimeLurker

          Even if he was OT whatever AND OT was real, he hasn’t had auditing in (decades?) and according to his own BS you have to constantly re-audit and resit courses etc just to maintain your current level on the bridge, let alone advance.

          So Miss Tia’s point is well made and Lurker should have kept his yap shut.

  • Sejanus

    “Fishman claimed that Scientology auditing helped him remember that in a past life he had stalked the Virgin Mary and, while spying on her, he’d masturbated into the pond where she was bathing and his sperm somehow found its way into her, inseminating her ”

    Jizzus Christ

  • Miss Tia

    TOT (Totally Off Topic): Whoever invented leaf blowers deserves a special place in hell. I’m trying to listen for one of the blimps and I’ve had 2 hours of LEAF BLOWERS cleaning up their 10 minutes of mowing. Seriously, they mowed for 10 minutes, now it’s been 2 hours and still going, of LEAF BLOWERS. I’m about to march up to St. Martha’s or whatever they’re called now, Blessed Trinity I think, and ask WHY YOU DO THIS?!?! Even if I wasn’t on ‘blimp patrol’, this is really insane, and annoying.

    The lady behind me is a great neighbor but she also goes leaf blower crazy and will use hers EVERY SINGLE DAY over every square inch of her driveway. I’ve watched and most days there is NOTHING THERE but over it she goes, every inch of it. She’s not a scieno, but it’s almost as if she’s clearing body thetans. Perhaps around here we have Land of Misfit Toys invisible parts that she has to blow away?

    Ah, much better after venting, now I’m gonna go set up shop in the street and sit out there cross stitching ‘i am insane project #2′ on blimp patrol. 🙂 Spirit of Innovation is leaving the area I think Tuesday and we will never see her again 🙁 Both blimps are gonna be out Friday and Monday doing tandem flights. I tweeted and posted on their FB page a suggested tandem flight route—right over Robinette Ct. 😀 Doesn’t hurt to ask!! I tweeted to ’em over the weekend when they were hovering over Stan Hywett to come back over North Hill and one of ’em did!! 😀

    • Sounds nasty, but I’m pretty sure our neighbors win the Shitty Neighbor Olympics™, thank you very much: Leaf blowers are awful, especially gas powered ones, but do you have a Hell’s Angel with a ’38 Buick Special hot rod right next to your bedroom window? A car so loud that it shakes your hundred year-old craftsman cottage to its core? Do they warm it up for 20 minutes every time they go out? Do you have to shut all the windows and shove a towel under your front door to keep your house from filling with carbon monoxide? Leafblowers get the Silver Medal, Hell’s Angels with house-shaking Hogs ‘n’ Hotrods™©® win the gold every time.

      We won’t even talk about their laundry products that fill the air with the scent of cheap hookers and grape urinal cakes . . . or the barking mastiff . . . or the trampoline full of shrieking children . . . or the hot tub orgies at 3AM.

      Sorry, I’ve been up since 5:30 thanks to them simply moving their vehicles around in the driveway so they could get the belching work truck out of the garage.

      • Scream Nevermore

        Can’t you complain to the local authorities about them? Antisocial behaviour?

        • The man’s a violent, rage-prone felon. I call the cops constantly. They do nothing. Collusion? Indifference? He doesn’t want to go back to prison. I don’t want to die young-ish. It’s a delicate balance of how far to push.

      • LongtimeLurker

        A) Why was the work truck at the back of the line in the first place?

        B) They sound terrible.

        Although I also use “Eau de Pro et la Pee Trough” and it really does get your whites, whiter.

        • The hotrod has a starter button an no key, so it’s always parked-in at night. It’s really a gorgeous piece of work, but it should never be used as a daily driver. Especially to ferry their 7 year-old princess to school with no safety features whatsoever. Not to mention what it does to my blood pressure.

          • LongtimeLurker

            A lunatic was pounding on our small apt block’s security door (even though there are individual apt buzzers) at FOUR-THIRTY am for 15 minutes a couple of nights back.

            The person he was trying to get to was ignoring it.

            And no one called the police.

            I dealt with it. But that’s an easy fix compared to you situation.

            I feel for you.

      • Eileen

        At least they have work 😉

        • Bam!
          Yes, there is that:)

      • dungeon master

        Iirc Tia’s neighbor is probably your neighbors’ twin.. The wall shaking stereo and if looks could kill she’d be a dead woman.. Hope things are soon better for you both.

        • Miss Tia

          DING!! you’re correct….vibrating volvo owner is a known woman beater—-numerous convictions for domestic violence, assault and admits on that video to slapping a woman around “if she deserves it”….has guns—is on probation for pistol whipping and is, of course, living with his victim….

      • Miss Tia

        I have the vibrating volvo (which has been quiet since the cops have been out twice), which has vibrated my whole house and neighbor houses—i get it the worse though when he does it (it’s an amp in the trunk)….i can relate to the CM, he goes out and revs the volvo (no amp now) revs and revs and revs and all the gas fumes—gas is leaking into the engine—come into my kitchen……

        i’m sorry you’ve got to deal with this…..i can truly empathize…..

        • PlanetJ

          I’m thanking my lucky stars that I live out in the woods on 5 acres,butted up to my in-laws 50 acres..The only noise problem we have is dogs barking..or the frogs and crickets getting to loud,down at the lake. I’d go bat-shit crazy if I lived in the city with neighbors.

          • Miss Tia

            we have our ‘moments’ in the land of misfit toys, such as with vibrating volvo domestic violence piece of shit, but when such toys are removed from our toy box this is a pretty quiet area—despite being off a busy street (dead end, literally and figuratively)…..and most days you hear the birds, toads when they’re out, blimps approaching—then me yelling BLIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….but it is pretty quiet back here…..

        • Here’s to both of us! May we prevail over stinkynoisy neighbors!

          • Miss Tia

            YES!!! May we both!! I am confident, that once again, I just have to outlast this mofo, cuz the odds of him going back to jail are so good no bookie would take that bet. The local police are trying to help with that, and are watching to catch him driving—he has a suspended DL but drives anyway. And being on probation for pistol whipping—-and the probation department won’t enforce ANY part of his probation!! The police have contacted them, telling them to DO THEIR JOB cuz he’s wrecking a cleaned up neighborhood!

    • LongtimeLurker

      They’re “provable BS.”

      Unless you’ve got acres & acres, or 4 feet deep piles of leaves, the millenia old rake tech is as fast, cheaper and more environmentally friendly, can be fixed with a nail and gives you exercise while you use it.

      Also, no one has ever been slapped upside the head because they woke up the whole block with their rake.

      Leaf blowers were probably invented by Hubbard.

      • Miss Tia

        rake or a broom—what’s wrong with them?

        probably were invented by Hubbard—-loud, obnoxious, blowing warm air….

    • pluvo

      I have even seen farmers working with leave blowers on slopes to blow hay.

      • Miss Tia

        see, THAT makes sense!!

        • aquaclara

          Crazy, isn’t it??? I have a leaf-blower neighbor who is out every day, too, on non-existent leaves and silly little snowflakes, too. Someone needs more hobbies, methinks.

          • Miss Tia

            i don’t get it with the neighbor behind me….she works 8 hours a day, comes home and LEAF BLOWS for up to 30 minutes….now in the fall when the leaves start falling? she’ll go for an hour or so…..if a leaf falls on her driveway after she’s blown that area, she RESTARTS THE WHOLE THING…..she must be OCD about the driveway, that’s all i can figure……and she does indeed also use it in the winter after she shovels!!

          • pluvo

            Maybe it is a substitute for the model railroads some men were playing with in the last century.

  • Fishman: yet another example of The Enemy of my Enemy is Not Necessarily My Friend. Scientology has an irresistible pull for fabulists, confidence men and just plain liars of all stripes. That they hold so many deadly asps to their breast must add to Miscaviges’s load of paranoia on some level. Which one will bite them next? Some of them are sad and delusional, tilting at windmills, harming few but themselves. Then there are the Fishmans, Slatkins, Fowlers and Cardones of the world. Slick talking, attention craving con artists who are pulled toward Hubbard like iron filings to a lodestone. They ruin lives on a grand scale.

    Tony, this is the kind of careful, clear-eyed reporting that I hope is cementing your place in the annals of excellent journalism. Scientology is one of the most fascinating things in the world to me, and I can’t understand why much of the media doesn’t want to dig in and explore the topic. It’s nothing less than the birth, rise, plateau, and long, slow deflation of a religion on an accelerated time scale. I’m pretty sure this is just the tip of the crazy iceberg.

    • Snake Plissken

      The most fascinating part about Scientology is that it’s legal. I really can’t believe that Scientology is not only allowed to operate but is protected as a religion.

      • jazzlover

        “Legal” is really an incredibly loaded term. We are taught that it ALWAYS equates to “sanctioned” or just plain “ok”. Part of the problem is that we are often confronted with issues that make us question whether or not we should settle for “just ok”. I think that detaching “right” from “legal” would go a long way in getting the problems posed by this particular cult analyzed by the powers that be from a much more practical perspective. At least, I hope.

    • It makes you wonder if what might happen if Miscavige were to be suddenly removed from the scene. Could a really imaginative con artist take over the CofS and pull the organisation back from civil war, or would only insiders know how to seize the levers of power?

  • A True Prince

    https://youtu.be/U5_hLCCtDsI Your Morning Laugh

    • madame duran

      Only five?

      • Scream Nevermore

        It’s enough for those who are only just starting their day!

  • Sejanus

    When I see these stories of $cientologists that run these elaborate fraud schemes I say to myself..
    did the wisdom of LRH teach them nothing?

    Oh, evidently it did.

    • madame duran

      Scientology’s contribution to the “benefit” of humankind: it produces crazies, con artists, arrogant a-holes and belligerent brutes.

      • LongtimeLurker

        But also all our lovely exes!

        But mainly what you said.

      • romanesco

        Either that or it’s a refuge for them.

    • Sherbet

      The Time title “The Cult of Greed” says it all.

  • Tony Ortega

    Note from Jonny Jacobsen about the situation in Russia added to the post.

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      In a thread below on Fishman, Artoo quotes the adage, “the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.” I feel like that applies to the Russia story, too. I didn’t realize the ECHR had previously called out Russia for its treatment of scientology. Although, how ironic that a human rights commission would be siding with scientology. Oh, I’m so confused about this one. Who do you even root for here, y’know?

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        I think you have to root for real human rights, even if that means objecting to the unfair treatment of CoS.

        • Scream Nevermore

          Miscavige v Putin. What TV that would make!

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            And both of them such small men 🙂

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            I’d want it to be either a steel cage match or a dance off.

  • aquaclara

    This story today is a blockbuster, but not for all the usual reasons, so it’s taking some getting used to. Today, wee have no honestly sympathetic victim, although jail can’t be fun. There’s no stunning break from Scientology involving secret means and help from the outside. There’s not even a dead body at this point. So why am I entranced by this story?

    Beats me, but keep it up, Tony. I’ve read this twice already, and may need another pass through before I have absorbed all that’s in here. And I know there’s more coming.

  • randomity

    If you read Hubbard with the right perspective (like Tony and Vance Woodward did a couple of of years ago,) it is like a graduate course in the subtle tricks and mannerisms of the huckster.

    I guess it’s not all that surprising that some of the scientology-curious end up embracing those ideas and running with them.

    Another one I find weirdly entertaining is Stefanie Relfe, who has has a self help scam involving scientology, jesus, time travel, and alien abduction.

    • LongtimeLurker

      www . metatech . org for Metatech Clearing

      Metatech – Exposing Aliens and the Alien Invasion.

      Personal Sessions with Stephanie Relfe.

      Especially for People who Have (or may have) metaphysical abilities, and/or an important Life Goal to help earth and its people, that you are not currently fulfilling.

      (all capitals and punctuation from original)

    • Beth

      you’ve been hucksed. back to start. no refund.
      Hubbard was as subtle as a rusty sledge hammer. Unless of course you’re in a mild trance state, in which case he’s a hoot.

  • Science Doc

    Hello Bunker friends! Are you inspired by today’s topics? You would be surprised by how compound interest works over 100 years. Also I have secret letter from Putin regarding F5 document. Reply with cashiers check,mash, or bearer bonds. F5

    • MostEthicalPimp

      I’m sold you can’t not believe someone with a name that has both science and Doc in the title on the internet. I mean Scientists are always trustworthy as are doctors! You do accept BitCoin? Anyone who accepts BitCoin anonymously on the internet is definitely not shady.

      • Science Doc

        Well, I might have a Mt. Gox wallet out there somewhere, but it’s kind of full.

    • Snake Plissken
  • Hamtaro

    Today’s post about Steve Fishman reminded me that DM filed a truly hilarious declaration in the Fishman case. One where he accuses Vaughn and Stacy Young of using lawsuits to personally harass him. And where he unconditionally states that he doesn’t try to avoid service by subpoena or giving depositions. Also interesting is how much more openly combative DM’s language is back then (immediately subsequent to the granting of the IRS exemption) compared to today.

    If you’re up for a laugh, here’s a link. Paragraph #13 is particularly hilarious: http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/legal/poodle.htm

    • To further ensure that the old GO influence was completely terminated, all “Guardian Orders,” the non-standard issues which GO staff followed instead of Mr. Hubbard’s policies, were canceled.

      And were promptly recreated as Office of Special Affairs Network Orders.

      • Sid

        Along with a select number of staff.

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      Hmmz, what was head of Interpol, Raymond Kendall, doing meeting with DM in January (93/94?)?
      Also, “colloquy” seems like a word that Miscavige would legitimately use in conversation.

    • I love it.

    • Science Doc

      Read most of the CA complaints. This is great!

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I love Heidi Macavoy. She is an unstoppable machine.

  • Sunny

    Is it noted anywhere how the original OT materials were gotten out of Scientology in the first place? I cannot find it anywhere….?

    • Science Doc

      That’s the big question. Sounds like scientology brushed up against a for real criminal who wasn’t play acting space navy.

      • Sunny

        I know how they got out, I just don’t see anything that says how it happened.

        • Science Doc

          Right. But did he burgle an advanced org, pay somebody off, or more interestingly scam someone in the church as part of an as yet unknown scheme. Davy was looking at a lot of dodgy money making schemes at the time. The Ship of Good scheme comes to mind, and he had lost a lot in oil or gas wells.

          • Sunny

            Who did it? That is what I don’t know. I know how, just not who?

            • Science Doc

              Are you saying you know how Fishman got the DOX?

            • Sunny

              No – I never heard of him. I am saying how they got out of a Scientology building, into someone else’s hands (again I don’t know who, just how).

            • Robert Eckert

              Are you saying you know how that was done? You are being very vague about what you do or don’t know.

            • Sunny

              I know of one incident which resulted in OT materials getting out… It was the OT I through V materials… everything all together were handed over to one person who walked out the front door with them. Is this story anywhere? He walked in AOSHEU and said he was from RTC and that he was there to pick up all of the OT materials because they were being corrected/fixed up. They believed him when he said he was from RTC and they just handed over everything.
              Nowadays you can’t do that. There is massive security measures in place for the OT materials. Back then there were not. I think this was around 96 or 97.
              Is this story anywhere online?

            • TonyOrtega

              Yes, the Robin Scott story is well told. Also, that they didn’t need to do the theft of NOTs because at the same time the man who wrote them, David Mayo, was recreating them for the AAC in Santa Barbara.

            • TonyOrtega

              Whether that theft, or Mayo’s recreations, had anything to do with Fishman, is something I wonder about.

            • TonyOrtega

              …hence the call for tech experts who might know of the genetic differences in Scott NOTs, Mayo NOTs, Fishman OTs, and other tech leaks.

            • Sunny

              Probably need an old timer Class IX to know about Mayo NOTS, Scott NOTS and Fishman. I have studied all the NOTS materials and audited them on others, but only post 96 (after Golden Age of Tech, and all of those are supposedly pure LRH, whatever the hell that is).

            • MaxSpaceman

              Karen de la C, a Class XII, may know.

            • Sunny

              To really pick them apart, yes, probably her and someone who has read the materials after 96, which are “pure LRH”, whatever that really means. Nothing is certain in that farking place! We know that.
              Looking at Fishman affidavits, OT II and III are the only two that look pretty accurate. But OT V looks like what is/was called “OT VII EP”, which was done on people after OT III in order to get them to wake up more BT’s and then send them back in for more OT III, which was called OT III expanded.
              The OT VI in the Fishman files looks more like the Sunshine Rundown (not all steps, just some), which is done right after a person attests to Clear.
              Never seen Mayo NOTS, maybe I will check that out next…

            • MaxSpaceman

              I love nOts with *The Thetan Hand and all the weirdnesses 🙂

            • Mooser

              “…hence the call for tech experts who might know of the genetic
              differences in Scott NOTs, Mayo NOTs, Fishman OTs, and other tech leaks.”

              Wow, thanks! My own ignorance never felt more like bliss! All I know relating to Scientology is a little bit about electricity and VOMs, and that’s more than enough.
              Thanks for all you do, Mr. Ortega. It’s been a privilege just to observe a little of it from the Bunker.

            • Sunny

              Thanks. Where is the story (well told)?

            • TonyOrtega

              Google is your friend. (And I’m walking the dog, so of limited help.)

            • Sunny

              Thanks. I found it using “Robin Scott, Scientology”.

            • Mooser

              You’re walking the dog?
              I’m just a walking the dog, too!
              If you don’t know how to do it
              I’ll show you how to walk the dog!

            • Sunny

              Things like this I know from sec checking people involved, not the outside version, so to speak.
              It’s odd when the two worlds collide and both stories are pretty much the same.

    • OT3 was given to people who walked in and asked for them, of course.

      https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/NOTs/provenance/atack-lawley.html

      • Sunny

        Thank you. That was what I was wondering about.

  • Observer

    Boring, self-deleting not-a-Scientologist smugly bloviating about “This is Russia, after all: three times condemned by the ECHR for its treatment of Scientology” in 3 … 2 … 1 …

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Ah, the sweet taste of martyrdom…

  • Robert Ramsay

    OT but this is currently number one on the front of reddit. http://sportige.com/adidas-doesnt-want-players-who-practice-scientology-02-10-2014/

    • Robert Ramsay

      Just hit 10,000 up votes this appears to be on a good run for today.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X
    When Co$ frustrates, saddens or angers you,
    there is something YOU can do, regardless of location.
    Red-X flagging is therapeutic.

    They put up lies and false promises.
    We take them down. Join us.
    You can help prevent walk-ins from learning voluntary insanity.
    It’s easy, it works AND it feels GOOD!
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml
    RedX tips & Complaints procedure are now included in the google doc under the tab RedXTips.

    Tick Tock, Dave
    Your whole scam is an evil shaggy dog story.
    It is worth as much as one of these:

  • Jenny Daniels

    The new and improved email reminders stopped a few days ago. Is anyone else having a problem?

    • TonyOrtega

      I’m not sending them out for now. Looking for yet another solution.

      • endoftheQ

        It slays me, but http://www.feedblitz.com is what you’re looking for. You may kiss me. 😀

        • pluvo

          Somehow a have the feeling that you show traits of a stalker.

          • endoftheQ

            In which case, Mr. Ortega can easily ban me, do email him. 😀

            • pluvo

              email?? I don’t know what you are having with commenters should “e-mail” Tony. He can read … here … on … his … own… blog. You are giving the impression of some obsession.

              Still waiting for some answers below:
              – “How long are you out? What’s your story? (If you shared it, I missed it.)”
              – “Why can’t you answer simple questions? Are you chickening out to avoid to get in a REAL conversation? You’re berating and generalizing and administering side blows at Tony. Well …, what’s up?”
              – “You keep on insulting. Why?
              So, how long are you out of Scn? Were you public, staff, Sea Org?”

            • endoftheQ

              @pluvo:disqus darling, ask a question, svp,

            • Robert Eckert

              He asked seven questions right there. You answered zero of them. FLUNK!

            • endoftheQ

              Ask. I’ll answer.

            • Robert Eckert

              Liar.

            • endoftheQ

              Hahahahah. Tony doesn’t dare call me a liar. BUT, you obviously need a guarantee, so email him at Tony Ortega and check whether my word is good.
              Your question is?!!

            • pluvo

              You are pathetic.

            • Lucille Austero

              You are weird. I wonder how you smell? Ick. Go away.

            • Mooser

              Wait a minute! That is the exact same e-mail address Tony gives the entire world in the sidebar. How did you get it?

            • Robert Eckert

              He doesn’t bother to call you a liar. That’s not the same thing. I don’t bother to pester Tony. Why you want his e-mail inbox filled with talk about you I cannot imagine, but you are as deluded as you are dishonest and unpleasant if you think people are going to e-mail Tony over your pathetic nonsense.

            • pluvo

              Your comments and answers are non-sequitur, very non-sequitur.

            • endoftheQ

              Ask. A. Question.

            • pluvo

              Are you a never-in or an ex-scio?

            • Kim O’Brien

              no one gives a shit if you are here or not …and since no one gives a shit .. no one is going to lift a finger to get you banned

            • Lucille Austero

              boom

            • endoftheQ

              Kim. Kim. Kim. It’s incredibly interesting, something that has absolutely nothing to do with you, but you’re completely obsessed with. Very. Very. Nice. Oh, do email him: it’s Tony Ortega he’s agog with anticipation about your complaint. I’m sure of that. 😀

            • Kim O’Brien

              like i said , no one gives a shit enough to complain about you

            • endoftheQ

              Aw, it’s so sad, when one has nothing to contribute, huh?!

            • She’s sooooooooooooo fucking sick. I really had completely forgotten about her till about a month ago when she showed back up:

            • Lucille Austero

              I am getting a really icky vibe off your comments. Sad face.

        • Scream Nevermore

          You recommended that to Tony back in July. If he hasn’t taken up the suggestion by now, I would suggest that you stand little chance of getting a kiss for it!

          • endoftheQ

            Kid told me that Tony may not have noticed my recommendation. I’ll email him, of course. Thank you. 😀

            • Scream Nevermore

              I’m sure he’s looking forward to it.

      • Jenny Daniels

        Thanks!

  • nottrue
    • Snake Plissken

      Moscow Scientology Office found to be practicing Scientology exactly how L. Ron Hubbard designed it to be practiced

    • joan nieman

      I love this and only wish the Americans would step up to the plate. From Russia With Love.

  • Well the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology does ride roughshod over the privacy of its victims – who knows if the victims in Russia are made aware that their “confidential” sessions are recorded?

    We know that the more clued-in victims, such as John Travolta, take steps to avoid this recording, only to be cheated by the Co$, according to “Going Clear.”

    So, I’d have to see the details before I was convinced that the Co$ are not fairly prosecuted for this. Not that Russia has a particularly good record, but the Co$ is guilty of quite a few crimes all the same.

    And Steve Fishman is a name that rings a bell… I did read “Lonesome Squirrel” at the time, and it sure enough is a rollicking read! As to the stories in it, I think independent verification is called for 🙂

    • Snake Plissken

      “So, I’d have to see the details before I was convinced that the Co$ are not fairly prosecuted for this. Not that Russia has a particularly good record, but the Co$ is guilty of quite a few crimes all the same.”

      No never know this may be the one time in it’s history where the Scientology Crime Syndicate was not breaking the law to screw people out of their money, stranger things have happened

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjI8AxZnrx8

  • cricit$

    For my money the bunker is the best part about the scientology story. Scientology? Meh. The org aspect of it is archaic and the science fiction ideas and militant practices overdue to evaporate. But a group ( the underground bunker) just as dedicated and just as immersed in it’s own version of scientology all the while saying they are against it but nonetheless exposed to or immersed in scientology’s language and scientology’s members and practices seven days a week? Wow, that is an interesting activity and worthy of a Harvard case study. It is possible that Underground Bunker people spend more time in scientology then some actual members. And time is money so in a sense you are paying for your anti-membership as well. Superb people and culture watching to be had here.

    • Lucille Austero

      Please check your use of “then.” Also, I have seen this ridiculous drivel before. Sounds so familiar…hmm…hold on, I’ll go see what Xenu thinks.

      • LongtimeLurker

        “…time is money…” revealing.

        Ayn Rand much?

    • Lucille Austero

      Oh, I forgot to ask, are you here to save the universe? Just tell us.

    • Robert Eckert

      cricit$ • 5 minutes ago
      For my money the bunker is the best part about the scientology story. Scientology? Meh. The org aspect of it is archaic and the science fiction ideas and militant practices overdue to evaporate. But a group ( the underground bunker) just as dedicated and just as immersed in it’s own version of scientology all the while saying they are against it but nonetheless exposed to or immersed in scientology’s language and scientology’s members and practices seven days a week? Wow, that is an interesting activity and worthy of a Harvard case study. It is possible that Underground Bunker people spend more time in scientology then some actual members. And time is money so in a sense you are paying for your anti-membership as well. Superb people and culture watching to be had here.

    • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

      So if Scientology is bad and obsessing about Scientology is worse, then what does that say about people who obsess over the people who obsess about Scientology?

      • Lucille Austero

        Excellent question!

      • cricit$

        Man, I am the worst. Your point is sound Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps,

        • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

          Thank you. Please delete your account now. Thank you.

          • cricit$

            You do what you want and I will do what I want when I want. But thanks

            • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

              Oh, I know you’ll do it. I’m just reminding you, in case you forget before tomorrow at 2.

            • Lucille Austero

              Do you want to save the universe? Is that part of it?

            • Scream Nevermore

              Scroll down the page and chat to endoftheQ. But wait until we’ve had a chance to get popcorn, please.

            • Lucille Austero

              *snort*

            • pluvo

              Yeah, don’t forget it’s the day before Thursday (2pm) and they have to get their stat up with confront-shatter-derail-delete-tek …. or else.

    • Jimmy3

      For my money cricit$ is the best part about the bunker story. He spends more time here than the average bunker reader, all the while constantly crying about the bunker being a cult of time wasters. Plus he’s super cute.

      • cricit$

        “He spends more time here than the average bunker reader’

        Alas, that is not accurate. But it must have felt good to write yes? High five for writing cool sounding things.

        • Eileen

          Alas, that is accurate, you just keep changing your name. The tune is always the same.

          • cricit$

            Nah. Nice try. Just saying it (twice) does not make it so.

            • Lucille Austero

              Could you try just saying that you are in fact here to save the universe?

            • Eileen

              Does so, does so.

            • cricit$

              Sure thing Eileen. You said it AND Jimmy3 said it…so it MUST be true.

            • Lucille Austero

              I was hopeful that perhaps you, cricit$, were here to save the universe. Please tell me straight out: are you here to save the universe? Or the gulahxee?

            • Eileen

              Correct, correct.

            • cricit$

              There, it is settled, we both agree you are right.

            • Lucille Austero

              But what I want to know is if I am right. Are you here to save the universe. And has Jimmy3 somehow been responsible for putting a stop to your plans?

        • Lucille Austero

          What would feel good is if you were here to save the universe. Don’t you want to say?

        • Jimmy3

          “Alas, that is not accurate.”

          So you would like it to be accurate? I think you have an MU.

          • cricit$

            Nope. I would not “like it to be accurate” nor “like it to” not be accurate. It is just that from my perspective what you said does not add up. Though, I do understand why you wrote it as part of your clever reply. I am good with it.

            • Lucille Austero

              Is the fact of what Jimmy3 said not adding up causing you a delay in your saving of the universe? Is there a kink of some kind in your plan? In other words, could we blame Jimmy3 for the universe not being saved?

            • Jimmy3

              I can tell you *really* want the universe to be saved. You are a good person, Lucille.
              Alas, cricit$ refuses to confirm that that is indeed his mission. 🙁

            • cricit$

              I don’t reply to people who play the copy and paste game or who insult or harass and badger others who they view as a threat or as non members or who might not promote the popular views here. You on the other hand are hilarious and respectful and your, what I would call, jabs, are appropriate and to be expected.

            • Lucille Austero

              cricits$, are you sucking up to Jimmy3 in order to disarm his counter-saving-of-the-universe strategies?

            • Lucille Austero

              I was hoping that’s why they are here. I would totally like to help out. In the saving.

            • Lucille Austero

              Major sad face. I was hope.

            • Robert Eckert

              cricit$ Jimmy3 • a minute ago
              Nope. I would not “like it to be accurate” nor “like it to not be” accurate. It is just that from my perspective what you said does not add up. Though, I do understand why you wrote it as part of your clever reply. I am good with it.

              Not good enough to understand the point, obviously. Why did you use the word “ALAS” unless it something to mourn?

      • LongtimeLurker

        How many thousand readers are there?

        And how many (?dozens?) are here for multiple hours commenting?

        cricit$, the fake “interested & objective 3rd party” Scientology ManWhore would EASILY be in thetop 5% for time here/comments made.

        And saying otherwise doesn’t make it less true.

        That’s all I wanted to say.

      • Scream Nevermore

        How cute? Johnny Depp cute??

        • Lucille Austero

          Chris Pratt cute.

          • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

            Yummy.

        • Snuzey

          I’m pretty sure Jimmy said he still has a couple of fucks to give…. so…. I’m wondering if I should get in the queue….

    • Lucille Austero

      Is there something standing in your way, making it hard to save the universe? Have you encountered difficulties?

  • chukicita

    Here’s a blast from the past – Jeff Jacobsen’s video of the first Internet picket in Clearwater, March 9, 1996. Moxon looks so young.

    About the first minute is shots of the picket – then the rest is that day’s news stories as viewed at the post-picket afterparty.

    At around 3 minutes in is some footage of Fishman and Rinder arguing.

    https://vimeo.com/2821822

    • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

      I snickersnorted at 02:16 when the viewers booed (an extremely young-looking) Sylvia Stannard.

      • chukicita

        Oh, here’s some more Sylvia. This video, taken at the December, 1996 post-picket Q&A for press held by picketers, begins with Sylvia harassing Dennis Erlich by asking something about his child support. Sylvia had claimed a right to be there by saying she was there as a reporter for Freedom magazine. No one made her leave.

        I’m the one with the hair sitting behind her. 😀

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          Just woken up, read your email notification and logged in only to find – no video! I am dying to see you and your hair 😀

          • chukicita

            LOL! I can’t believe I forgot to include the link:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGvCtqDZk7s&feature=youtu.be

            • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

              Thank you! I watched the video all the way through as soon as I got home from work. You all are the real warriors. And your hair is amazing!

              I love how Sylvia Stannard tries to pass herself off as a reporter only to blow her cover so quickly that other – real – reporters begin questioning her about Scientology practices.

  • I have listened to that Fishman recording on youtube more than I’d like to admit and Beth stated it it perfectly:
    https://i.imgflip.com/prs15.jpg

    TY for the inspiration Beth

    • endoftheQ

      Drunk. Again.

      • Lucille Austero

        endoftheQ, (praise John DeLancie) are you here to assist cricit$ in the whole saving the universe plan?

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          Thank you for the John DeLancie reference, I’ve been thinking the same thing!

      • Please leave me alone. Thank you. Also, libel.

        • endoftheQ

          I leave the unwashed alone, if they leave me alone. 🙂

          • Lucille Austero

            Now your true colors are showing. Your $cientology skills coming to the fore. You are a sad and deluded being. Be gone.

            • endoftheQ

              Mr. Ortega can tell me to go. You don’t have that privilege.

            • Lucille Austero

              I can say whatever I want you Marcab-dwelling sh*t for brains. I do not like you at all.

            • Kim O’Brien

              You should ask Tony.

          • Robert Eckert

            Liar.

            • endoftheQ

              Fool.

            • Lucille Austero

              I smell something…does anyone else smell something weird? And not in a good way?

            • Robert Eckert

              I’ve been thinking it’s Norman for quite some time.

            • Robert Eckert

              You stated that you leave people alone when they leave you alone. This was a clearly false statement, since Nat had not been speaking to you at all. You ARE a liar (as you have shown in other ways today) and there is nothing foolish in pointing that out.

            • Kim O’Brien

              Seriously You should ask Tony.

          • Kim O’Brien

            Maybe You should ask Tony.

      • TonyOrtega

        What’s with the personal attack?

        • endoftheQ

          If you need more, Tony, hey… ?! I’ve got a whole lot more!!!

          • Kim O’Brien

            You should ask Tony.

        • endoftheQ

          You’re “hating” on Grundoon?!!!!!

          • Kim O’Brien

            You really should ask Tony.

          • Eileen

            So you are Grundoon?? I thought Marty Rathbun was Grundoon!

      • Kim O’Brien

        if you love Jesus, You should ask Tony.

    • Beth

      ha! good one. I’ve listened to almost all 3+ hours of the interview Snake posted while I do chores. What a character. wow.

      • SarahDB

        The troll is trying to derail this conversation, don’t bite and let it win. I listened to about half of the Fishman videos, then it was just too sad.

  • Observer

    ..

  • Snake Plissken

    Where does Steve Fishman rank among famous Scientologists? The top three famous Scientologists are undisputed but after that it’s anyone’s guess. I’d say Steve Fishman easily makes the top 50 of famous Scientologist.

    1 Tom Cruise

    2 John Travolta

    3 Charles Manson

    • Eileen

      4. Werner Erhart (started EST)

    • MaxSpaceman

      Fishman needs to be in the Top 10. Just for the famous Fishman Affs. Then add his wack-a-doodle video, where he recounts past lives, shows his L-loonacy Library, and his paintings et al of Space Opera, and he’s top ten fo sho.

  • Robert Hammond

    In Hubbard’s own words Secret OT III text

    “The head of the Galactic CONFederation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet – 178 billion on average) by mass implanting..

    He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken – in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there “packaged”.

    His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc was placed in the unplants. When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. “They” are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert.”

    ~ L Ron Hubbard, plagiarist, bigamist, hypnotist, con artist

    (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4SBfhRmvzU

    • PlanetJ

      Question : Are Co$ and the Galactic Confederation of Light people, the same?
      I’ve been on the weird side of youtube before and have seen the crazy GCoL creepy computerized voice-over video’s. Just wondering if Co$ and GCoL are the same?
      I’ve been wondering about that ever since the first time I read your OTIII post.

  • ze moo

    Fishman would have been a great clam. His ‘postulates’ sucked in money (in pitiful amounts) and by employing clams the scampire got some too. Fishman’s later ‘payoffs’ were to work at Earthlink, what a payoff!! When I learned around 1998 that Earthlink was clam owned, I quit and went to AOL for a brief time. Even AOL was better then clamland.

    One of the most valuable lists that scammers can generate and sell to other scammers is a list of those successfully conned. By selling these names and phone numbers, other scammers get some well qualified ‘customers’. Clams make good marks. Why? Because they already fell for Rontology and many have ‘magical’ thinking. I don’t include all clams, someone down thread posited the answer that there are 2 types of clams, those being scammed and the scammers. Scammers can also fall for the magical thinking, or perhaps they think they can scam the scammers?

    Magical thinking abounds. In the 1960’s or 70’s there was a wonderful scam that sold you confederate currency from the 1860’s. The scam made you believe that Georgia or Texas had to redeem these notes with interest. Well, the notes were counterfeit confederate crap and of course those so scammed later bought dry oil wells or homeopathic remedies or some other nonsense like the seats on an airplane ponzi scheme.

    Get rich quick is has always been an idea that is easy to fall into, if you suspend your ‘do I smell bullshit’ senses. Getting that suspension takes a skill, a skill that regs and case supervisors and body routers in the clampire used to know.

    • Mooser

      “Magical thinking abounds. In the 1960’s or 70’s there was a wonderful
      scam that sold you confederate currency from the 1860’s.”

      Ah, the old “green goods” scam rides again!

      • Juicer77

        Nice to see you, Mooser 🙂

        • Mooser

          Why, thank you for the friendly greeting. And Hello! to you, and everyone else at the Bunker. I don’t have time these days, unfortunately, to hang ’round and comment, but I always read the Bunker, just about daily. And when I skip an article, I read the article the next day, no matter how long it takes or how tired my lips get from reading.

          • Juicer77

            LOL

      • ze moo

        The confederate money scam was hilarious. In the 50’s and 60’s several places reprinted ‘original’ confederate money as souvenir. The scammers just scooped up this fake money and spun a tale to sell it. Greed is good, if you’re Gordon Gecko and live on Wall Street, if you’re living hand to mouth and have $200, watch out.

  • LongtimeLurker

    So the regular troll is back.

    For those who are a bit taken aback when multiple trolls are commenting at the same time, something just occurred to me that I thought was important to share.

    I regularly go to dozens of sites where I NEVER read the comments.

    In some cases it’s because I once read them and thought “okay, never again”.

    But that didn’t stop me from going back for the articles.

    Let’s say The Bunker’s comments somehow became unreadable because of this and other word-whores.

    All the comments on every article fill up with crickets bloviating and, let’s say Jimmy3 pretending to make passes at him in response..

    Yes, it would be a loss, genuinely.

    But…

    The articles would still exist and the truth would still be getting out.

    No matter what they do, it doesn’t matter. They have no endgame that’s worth anything.

    Edit – there’s no image, that was a leftover.

    • MrsLurksALot

      This may be harsh, sorry If anyone is offended. BUT, I may not engage often with the trolls, but I’m getting so bored with their same old song and dance. Trolls: You aren’t riling us up, you aren’t making any comments that will ever change our mind. All your repetitive comments do is bore us, in the end. They must bore you, too, seeing how you delete them every day. So, this one is for you. F5 (Again, harsh and sorry in advance if anyone is offended by my pic.)

    • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

      Q seems like they’re trying to get banned. I’m not sure for what purpose or what point that proves or what stat it meets, but that does appear to be the endgame.

      • LongtimeLurker

        What if – gets banned says to everyone (?) The Bunker hates free speech.

        or…

        Possibly not a Sci.

        Just a lonely sociopath who gets off on attention?

        I haven’t read all its comments though, so there may be actual Sci giveaways you know about?

        • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

          The former. Not that it would actually persuade anyone with a brain.

          • LongtimeLurker

            No way man. The whole internet would listen.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Heh. Now if they tried to claim that the Bunker hates kittens, or something, maybe–just MAYBE–they could stir up the internet. The internet will always defend its kittens.

      • pluvo

        Maybe they have a stat for being so ‘effective’ that they get banned.

        • LongtimeLurker

          They’re not doing a very good job, in that case.

  • Jgg2012

    I have noticed a disturbing trend of former Scientologists joining scams. Why? Part of it is because they are unemployable. Having “worked for OSA for 10 years” on a resume scares people.

    • Lucille Austero

      Or utterly confuses them 🙂

      • LongtimeLurker

        – So, this OSA, what was it?

        – A black ops…an ecclesiastical spying…like a religious dirty tricks…
        …I’m not getting the job am I?

        • Lucille Austero

          Yes, ecclesiastical and really really spiritual and religious as well.

  • Robert Hammond

    Hubbard’s Secret OT VIII text

    “No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible where various events are predicted. Also mentioned Is a brief period of time in which an arch-enemy of Christ, referred to as the anti-Christ, will reign and his opinions will have sway. All this makes for very fantastic, entertaining reading but there is truth in it. This anti-Christ represents the forces of Lucifer (literally, the “light bearers” or “light bringer”), Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of enlightenment, the Galactic Confederacy. My mission could be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ period. During this period there is a fleeting opportunity for the whole scenario to be effectively derailed, which would make it impossible for the mass Marcabian landing (Second Coming) to take place.”

    ~ L Ron Hubbard, plagiarist, bigamist, hypnotist, con artist

    • Jgg2012

      OT IX: The whole thing was a joke.

      • Robert Hammond

        OT X: Give us more money.

      • Rasha

        OT J/K

  • Madison KinSmed

    Question ‘re comments: why someone repeatedly include the proprietor’s email address in their responses here?

    • LongtimeLurker

      He thought that I and others constantly calling him a troll meant we were asking for him to banned.

      And we should put our money where our mouth is and email Tony. The email address was supposed to rage-shame us into emailling Tony, thereby creating dissent and destroying the Sun.

      He was also trying to somehow subtly insult Tony in a way that is unclear to intelligent people.

      He’s a fuckstick.

      edit – clarity

    • Scream Nevermore

      He’s off his meds. Or his head. Or both!

      • MaxSpaceman

        pretty certain endof is female

        • LongtimeLurker

          A) I need to know this story. But I guess I never will.

          B) That’s exactly why I’ve kept saying ‘he’

        • LongtimeLurker

          HEY, LOOK AT YOUR NEW AVATAR!

          I just rewatched that.

          • MaxSpaceman

            is it any good? haven’t seen it since was a boy

            • LongtimeLurker

              Nope.

              It had some great moments, but some major failings.

              But I’m the kind of person who’ll watch stuff for an historical perspective on set design or FX or whatever.

              So for me it was worth it.

              Whereas I actually think Forbidden Planet is a good film.

        • Robert Eckert

          He picks on women he thinks are vulnerable to abuse about bodily appearance. Quite obviously male, and probably the same one we have known as Flunk, Ziontologist, etc etc.

          • MaxSpaceman

            wow– that’s so bizarre. I thought end lives in england, female, fascination for sea monkeys, that’s all. But the shit storm e of q can put forth is really derailing the whole Fishman post of today.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Don’t women body shame each other all the time?

            • Lucille Austero

              Not to their face.

            • ^^^^^

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’m almost certain it’s a toxic asshole male as well.

              But I didn’t think there was zero chance it was a woman deliberately using male tactics from the safety of anonymity, specifically because she thought they would hurt.

              I’m happy to be wrong.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              lol…..don’t reveal all our secret female ways! 😉

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Absolutely not, women are paragons of virtue who heartily embrace their fellow females with sincere kindness but never body shame! Who has been filling your head with such lies?!

            • LongtimeLurker

              It was a f**king guy.

              Darn it.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              And we never fart either.

              But if we did it would smell like roses.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Well, obviously.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Roses, or sometimes peach cobbler.

            • Mooser

              Longtyime, even my limited experience has taught me, and quite specifically, that womens, generally, are each a unique individual. Every last goddam one of them (that I’ve ever known) is like that! It never fails. Just when you think you’ve got one who is just like the rest of ’em, she turns out to be an individual, too! Womens today just don’t care about stuff like that, the way they used to. In the old days, women used to care if they conformed to some self-serving, male-conceived, self-destructivess-to-themselves images of woman. But the womens these days just try to be (of all things, really!) themselves! You can’t count on them to do anything “all the time”.

            • LongtimeLurker

              I’m not sure how badly I came across, so this might be an over explanation.

              I didn’t mean to give the impression I thought all women were like-minded, I don’t think that. Nor do I think it of all men.

              I also didn’t mean to give the impression that men don’t do most of (and the worst) body shaming, I think they do.

              I just wanted to point out that there was no way to 100% know that a deliberately hurtful, anonymous jerk on the internet isn’t using a commonly male tactic to be hurtful.

              And I based it partly on the fact that several more experienced Bunker folk had already said they knew which woman the troll was.

              I failed to achieve any of the things I was aiming for.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Don’t worry, this particular woman won’t keep your mistake on file to throw in your face at a later time just because! 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thanks little missy!

              I mean…

              darn

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              (sigh) I guess “little missy” is better than “that feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemale”

            • Robert Eckert

              Well, identifying which “old friend” it is cannot be done with 100% certainty, but clearly this was not simply a professional photographer who just happened to stop by here and couldn’t help but comment on Tony’s attitude about copyrights and fair use.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Clearly.

              All I care about now, is that I seem to have been gently tarred with some kind of sheen of misogyny.

            • Snuzey

              I don’t get that from you 🙂 your sheen seems perfectly respectful to me!

          • LongtimeLurker

            Not knowing those identities, do we know if he’s a Scientologist or have reasons to think he’s not?

            I can’t tell and I’d like to know.

            • Snuzey

              From what I’ve gathered in the past I thought he/she was an ex. I’ve had some sound conversations with him/her before so I find this sudden change really odd. Maybe its just a bit of a flip/anger period, who knows. I hope they find their peace.

            • Robert Eckert

              He goes through these cycles every time he is here.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thanks Snuzey.

              It seems pretty obvious to me that whatever Q’s issues or problems might be they’d be better served by trying to directly deal with them.

              Because how Q is spending today ain’t gonna fix anything.

            • Robert Eckert

              Former Sci, still brain-damaged.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Thanks Robert.

              Way to target people who are completely not the problem. That will fix its life.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              I think it’s a safe assumption that anyone who comes in here and trolls like that is a scilon. I also assume they share accounts, which explains how the personalities seem to change.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Two different people down below assured me this is a specific ex, with other issues.

              I hate you guys.

              ; )

            • Scream Nevermore

              Want to talk about the Ashes instead then?? 😉

            • LongtimeLurker

              That’s…a sport thing, right?

            • Scream Nevermore

              You sure you are an Aussie??

            • LongtimeLurker

              I know. It’s a real problem.

              My school years were hell.

            • Scream Nevermore

              I can imagine. I have family out there and they’ve totally adopted the ‘live and breathe sport’ attitude.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Almost all my friends are like me.

              But the unavoidable sport nonsense of the rest of the place is my least favorite thing about Australia.

              I mean other than our asylum-seeker policies.

              And our health care system.

              Our education system…

              Anyway, it’s in the top 10 that suck.

            • Scream Nevermore

              But it’s still not that bad a place to live.

            • LongtimeLurker

              No, it’s not.

              I’ve visited worse.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              A specific ex? Hmm, interesting…Well, I’ve totally lost track of today’s threads anyway. I do, however, have Poison songs stuck in my head, so the trolls can claim that as a stat if they wan to.

            • LongtimeLurker

              Look, there is literally no way to know for sure, right?

              I thought if 3 or 4 different people gave the same answer, I’d lean that way.

              You didn’t, that breaks it, so I’m going to stop thinking about it.

              I…dislike…Poison.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              I dislike them, too. So I concede the trolls have won on that count. ; )

            • Unfortunately that is not a safe assumption. Other sickos troll us too.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Wow, that is unfortunate. Q was particularly aggressive and hostile–in a very personal way. I did not expect that. I’ve only witnessed the usual trolls.

            • We’ve had mentally ill people pull long term catfishing ooperations on us as well. That may be the case with this trolling. I’m taking a wait and see attitude to see what Tony Ortega does/says.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Geez…Well, I’m sorry you got caught in the crossfire.

          • TinyTyrant

            I thought the same thing, but I was also reminded of the cult’s tactic of provoking a response and then using the response against the person, such as the Davis/ Sweeny shouting match.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Pffft, some of my relations are like the Borgias, I can do this all day!

          • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

            It’s just bull baiting. They’re obviously going for a ban. Whatevs.

        • Kim O’Brien

          who claimed to be raising her sisters daughter cuz she left her for scientology ..and that she was preggo with triplets . Crazy fucky pants

          • Sherbet

            I think they were twins, Kim. Imaginary twins, but twins nonetheless. 😉

            • Kim O’Brien

              oh right 😉 my bad …

          • Sandy

            or in Corvallis, Or – as Tony suggested earlier … 😉

        • richelieu jr

          Check out my Etymology of ‘Q’ in French below for an interesting perspective, folks…

    • Mooser

      Well, given that the proprietors e-mail is given by the prop. his own self, (LH sidebar main page) it can’t be all that significant.

      Yes, Tony Ortega has an e-mail address. Probably got several accounts. Lotta people do.

    • Who knows?

      Maybe they think it will result in his address being harvested by spambots (this person seems to see themselves as quite computer savvy) or they are desperate for his attention for some psychiatric reason.

      Whatever the reason, their behaviour is not quite rational.

    • endoftheQ

      Hey, dumbarse, it’s simple. If Mr. Ortega objects, then he can close it down.

      • Lucille Austero

        Hey. EndoftheQ. No one asked you. You are not here to save the universe. Please show yourself out and also that idiot cricit$. Did you feel that? Thank you.

        • endoftheQ

          No. You pathetic piece of crap. 😀

          • Lucille Austero

            oh my. so we’re down to neener neener, are we?

      • Kim O’Brien

        so maybe You should ask Tony.

      • richelieu jr

        Interesting in that ‘Q’ pronounced as we do in French, means ‘Cock’, and the end of it would be well, the piss-hole, wouldn’t it?

        No surprise to see what is squirting out of it, then, when you think about it.

    • LongtimeLurker

      Don’t engage Madison. Being called dumbARSE, is not an insult from a sociopath.

      • “Arse” is UK/Irish usage, distinct from the US “ass”. He/she might be one of ours. I do apologise.

        • Scream Nevermore

          He said in a previous post that he is one of ours – I almost wish I had voted SNP in the Referendum after seeing that!

        • LongtimeLurker

          I’m Australian.

          I was just trying to mildly irritate it.

          • endoftheQ

            Yes. We understand. You’re a £10 pom. We got it. You can shut up now. 😀

        • endoftheQ

          Mr. Ortega does not apologise, in case you haven’t noticed. 😀

  • Bugs Bunny and Bearshark — I really miss you 🙁

    • ze moo
    • endoftheQ

      What, Nat? Nothing to say, Hey, baby, you’re the totally ugly specimen. C’mon, we adore catfish. 😀

      • Kim O’Brien

        You should ask Tony.

        • endoftheQ

          I agree. 100%.

          • Kim O’Brien

            then You should ask Tony.

            • endoftheQ

              Absolutely!!!!!

            • Scream Nevermore

              Are you sending Tony pictures of yourself in your baggy old paisley pattern M&S Y-fronts? Enquiring minds want to know.

            • endoftheQ

              Tony’s observing. Do you pass??!!

            • Kim O’Brien

              Well..You should ask Tony.

            • endoftheQ

              I did ask him, you stupid cow. Go on, ask him yourself.

            • Kim O’Brien

              think about the children …You should ask Tony.

            • endoftheQ

              You ask him darling.

            • Kim O’Brien

              You should ask Tony.

            • Robert Eckert

              No, you. You’re reminding me of dtap, as well as Norman, and 26.

            • Lucille Austero

              endoftheQ, ancient Marcab saying: you are the cow of stupid. Now go.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Always to the left.

            • endoftheQ

              The risk is. Dockers in Drag.

            • Kim O’Brien

              Risk ? You should ask Tony.

            • Scream Nevermore

              You’d know more about that than I do, Madame Jojo.

            • endoftheQ

              Madam JoJo has the right to hold a knife to my throat. Oh, and then cut it.

            • Kim O’Brien

              in THAT case… You should ask Tony.

            • Scream Nevermore

              Why should Madam Jojo put you out of your misery?

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEQcsuXnnnc

            • Lucille Austero

              Oh! Is this foreign humor, I mean humour? Regardless, you are fail and you are hereby invited to use the door as soon as possible. Can you feel my finger? Thank you.

            • Lucille Austero

              Whoa. Is there a test? Why didn’t anyone tell me there was a test today???

            • Kim O’Brien

              then please… You should ask Tony.

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        Speaking of catfish, I wonder how our very own catfish, the cruel and disturbed Monkey Knickers is doing these days. Don’t you, endoftheQ?

    • Kim O’Brien

      🙂 i’m bored at work and can cock block all day sista …we heart you

    • Scream Nevermore

      Ignore it Nat – it’s only here because there’s no East Enders on the telly this evening.

      • It comforts me to imagine what Espi and Howdy would be saying right now. White knights, both.

        • Lucille Austero

          Indeed. I miss them too. Hearts to you 🙂

        • endoftheQ

          No body gives a shit about you. If they did, I’d want a refund. 😀

          • Kim O’Brien

            You should ask Tony.

            • endoftheQ

              Email him. Ask him. Go on. I dare you.

            • Kim O’Brien

              You should ask Tony.

            • Juicer77

              That’s it… here it comes. Kissing monster!!

            • LongtimeLurker

              I loooove dems.

          • Lucille Austero

            I will speak for the record here. I believe that myself as well as a great many persons actually do give a shit about Nat as well as loads of other posters. You are poison. You clearly need a touch assist. Know what I mean? Thank you.

            • endoftheQ

              Yes. Poison. Oh, agreed !!

            • Lucille Austero

              Every rose has it’s thorn.

            • 5 Feet Long and Luminous

              Lucille, get out of my brain today! Although, this is the one that popped into my head first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_88L-CU7PD4

            • SP Wogsy

              ???????

            • Scream Nevermore

              I suspect Poison is his favourite perfume!

            • endoftheQ

              I suspect anything stuffed in your ear is good thing?! Huh?!

            • Scream Nevermore

              See that ear wax? That’s your brain that is.

            • endoftheQ

              Sad, but my cock will help you understand.:)

            • Scream Nevermore

              Something that insignificant would be of no help to anyone!

            • endoftheQ

              Wow, now I know why the boys want a refund, I thought “you’re saggy arse” was just an expression!!!

            • Scream Nevermore

              That should be ‘your saggy arse’. ‘Your’ being the possessive, and not ‘you’re’ which is the contracted version of ‘you are’. Which would make no sense. And of course, I don’t talk out of mine, so it’s in decent nick.

            • endoftheQ

              What?!!!!

            • Scream Nevermore

              Sit up straight in your chair! Pay attention!

            • Kim O’Brien

              if you are confused about this ..you should ask Tony

            • Scream Nevermore

              Give him Tony’s email address, will you? I can’t remember what it is…

            • Kim O’Brien

              naw ..it’s right over to the left 🙂

            • Kim O’Brien

              THAT was amazing ! 🙂 and they don’t get it either ..that makes it even better . LOL

            • I remember those sketches – I particularly like the one that started out to discuss the origins of the Great War, and ended up with exchanges like “see that flob on the table? That’s your swimming pool, that is”.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0imsRWPjzo

            • Scream Nevermore

              Back in the day I attended a few conferences which basically turned into this kind of thing – it was hysterical!

            • Kim O’Brien

              you should ask tony

            • Newiga

              Nat <3

        • Scream Nevermore

          • Gorgeous, thanks!

            • Scream Nevermore

              Just imagine that the drumstick in the pic is one of her/his/its legs! 😉

            • endoftheQ

              Yeah, a tired old troll, with sag marks. 😀

            • Scream Nevermore

              Don’t be so hard on yourself, babes. I’m sure you’re not *that* bad!

          • Sherbet

            :’-(

      • Sherbet

        She’s British like I am. And I’m not.

    • Susan_Qbird_Poche

      fly with me Nat ~ float for a spell on the updrafts ~ soar!
      as you always have ! It’s easy. I’m with you 🙂 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/579742353105067101dac1c87acf4be48fa1ca1b317fbf259600f901727e9027.jpg

  • Robert Hammond

    Illustrated History of Scientology (refresh) Be sure to give the video at least a minute before the audio portion begins. It gets better as it goes along.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s3gIthXHJU

    • MaxSpaceman

      Certainly possible that El Ron El Rey hisself dropped acid with Stephen Boyd, while sailing the Mediterranean in the late 60s. That accounts for 178 billion people per average per 76 planets and all the tripe in his Space Opera.

      • Snake Plissken

        I don’t think there is any question about it, if you listen to Ron’s Journals from the late 60s you can tell that his brain is fried. I’m sure it’s the reason he had such a hardon about people who dropped LSD not being allowed in the Sea Org. He didn’t want people as messed up as he was on the same boat as him.

  • Crickets

    *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* Scientology is awesome *chirp* *chirp* *chirp**chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* DM is a living god *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* read Freedom Magazine if you want the truth *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* I’m opening my own Ideal Org, under a rock in the back yard *chirp* *chirp* *chirp**chirp* *chirp* *chirp**chirp* *chirp* *chirp*.

  • Cursed Frogurt

    m/18/detroit

    • LongtimeLurker

      Jesus, you’re down here as well?

  • Robert Hammond

    Invasion of the Body Thetans (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=83&v=a-oriJ1qUBI

    • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

      Oh my! So who are the two people doing *actual* confronting (the ones speaking and asking questions without getting answers from the Scies)?

      • MaxSpaceman

        wasn’t this a Pete Griffiths overt Op. ?

        • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

          I don’t know! That’s why I asked!

          • MaxSpaceman

            yes Pete Griffiths (a clumsy rhetorical question I posted :-/

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              I’m a never was/never in, so some things I don’t know, so being a relatively reasonable person I ask questions of those who can answer them. But thank you for the answer! 🙂

            • MaxSpaceman

              Pete posted an epic video – more than 1 I think – of his scilon org Ops in Ireland.

        • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

          Yes, Max. We bought the balloons for the IAS anniversary weekend (and, oh, the fun we had with them) and the leftovers were flown back to Dublin 🙂

        • LongtimeLurker

          “overt op”

          +1

      • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

        John McGhee and Sam Domingo-Freeman, and Pete 🙂

    • Sherbet

      Normal people would pop them and laugh at how funny it is. These stone-faced dolts are treating comical balloons as if they’re hazardous waste. Scientology: Check your sense of humor at the door.

  • Tony Ortega
    • Kim O’Brien

      Aaaand there you have it . LOL

      • endoftheQ

        Is this proof of arse lickin’, dear Tony?!!!

        • Kim O’Brien

          You should ask Tony.

        • Eileen

          Are you Marty Rathbun?

        • Lucille Austero

          I am getting sleepy.

        • Kim O’Brien

          how are the babies ?

    • Scream Nevermore

      He lost me when I got to the bit about buying Camelot – dear gods!

      • Snake Plissken

        Where else would you expect a billionaire who’s into playing batshit crazy roleplaying games to live?

        • Scream Nevermore

          In his case, Broadmoor!

        • LongtimeLurker

          HEY! I play RPGs.

          grumblegrumble

    • Juicer77

      What about Tintagel?!?! Wrong castle, dummy (article subject, not our Proprietor!)

      • Scream Nevermore

        I think his grasp on reality is rather…loose…

    • Snake Plissken

      Isn’t gambling supposed to get you called into Ethics for Sec Check if you’re in the cult?

    • Lucille Austero

      Dear NASCAR Baby Jesus, please send us your humble servants a sign whether Donald Trumps is good or evil. I feel your finger. Thank you. Amen.

    • “Donald Trump’s biggest fan is a British Scientologist who lives in a castle”

      Well… he lives in the Tintagel Castle Hotel which (rather like Saint Hill Manor) is a conventional, run down building with phoney crenellations.

      This is the nutcase who has a running battle with websites like Trip Advisor. Whenever someone posts a really bad review of his hotel there (and there are no good ones) he responds with a phoney 5* review. This can usually be spotted because it includes the catchphrase, Magic! https://googlejohnmappin.wordpress.com/

      He also distributes Scientology material locally and has a nice line in pressuring guests to buy his execrable ‘works of art’.

      A pity, because Tintagel is a beautiful place.

      • Eileen

        I once spent several entertaining hours reading the tripadvisor reviews. People went into detail about exactly why they hated or were freaked out by the place.

        • Snuzey

          Me too! Apparently the art is horrific!

        • LongtimeLurker

          I did it for at least an hour.

      • Juicer77

        Been there on a rainy, windy September day. Had a dreadful cold. Still loved the crumbling ruins and the view down to Merlin’s Cave. It IS lovely.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Once_Born is being SUPER generous with “conventional, run down building”, this is a freaking world-class, one of a kind run down building.

        The BBC did show on it.

        I suggest everyone follow Once_Born’s link and also google it, there are a couple of sites dedicated to exposing the truth about Tintagel Castle Hotel.

        Finding out about this hellhole was one of my favorite things about clammy wackiness.

        I’ve included one image to get you started.

        Refresh

        https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/ef/da/db/water-and-electrics-go.jpg

        • Kim O’Brien

          why does it look like you have to pee in the sink ?

          • Scream Nevermore

            Because you DO!

          • LongtimeLurker

            I’m glad you asked.

            I don’t want to know.

            You should see some of the images on the exposé sites.

            Some of the bathrooms, INSIDE the suites, are portapotties, portaloos? you know what I mean.

            It’s worth it for a laugh.

            Report back if you do go.

            • Kim O’Brien

              my camping equipment is better than that …and we pee outside LOL

            • LongtimeLurker

              It’s gone so far towards hellhole, it’s come back to funny.

      • lynn

        oh my, that link certainly is a very deep rabbit hole.

  • Robert Hammond

    Moscow Scientology Failing Fast (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xA_oB8kNrI

  • Panopea Abrupta

    These trolls are such angry amateurs.
    Using the c-word, demeaning women, spouting insults.
    Here’s a bunch of c-words for you, children.
    I like to care for the disabled.

    The cantankerous Canterbury cantor, recanting, cantered from the cantina towards the cantons, past the cantilevered bridge, a cantrip, canting cantos and canticles while sipping from his canteen and eating cantaloupe.

    or, if word-clearing those is not for you, here’s a little rap:

    Nothing to add, just act like a cad
    You’re really sad, thinking you’re bad
    And acting so rad, need help for your mad.
    You’re the Devil’s advocate, all hit and run
    Defending creeps that disconnect and shun

    Finally, an excellent article on professional trolls instead of Dave’s zombie army:
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/18/trolls-putin-russia-savchuk

  • Science Doc

    Troll Advisory and Historical Perspective: Today’s comments are running a little above average on troll activity, but do not let this deter you from reading some of the outstanding and informative comments below. By comparison, on the first major internet scientology forum, alt.religion.scientology, in the late 90’s, half or more posts were commonly by trolls, and the raw feed was sometimes unintelligeable. Xenu.net, Operation Clambake, provided a service called ARS Week in Review that distilled and de trolled the raw feed to isolate the most useful information. Bottom line, the trolls are loosing. Today’s comments have already taken me to other sites rich in information about Narconon, Scientology in Russia, and the nutty castle guy in England. The trolls accomplished nothing.

    • Snake Plissken

      The slaves have kicked the hamster wheel into overdrive because Thursday 2:00 PM EST is less than 24 hours away and their stats are dismal

      • Science Doc

        They should be shown an archive of ARS on a busy day in 1999 and then sent back under their bridge to reflect on their failed stats 16 years later.

        • Snake Plissken

          What used to be a morgue in the basement of PAC Base back when it was a hospital is now a room full of worn out hamster wheels from the OSA trolls who have failed before them.

    • MostEthicalPimp

      Why was I too clammed to at least troll on Alt.religion.Scientology back in the day!

    • Robert Hammond

      They accomplish the goal of exposing Scientologists for lack of communication skills and analytical thinking abilities. They also remind us to post the OT III Xenu story for those who haven’t seen it yet. So they do accomplish a few things. Probably not what they are intending, though.

  • Snake Plissken
  • Robert Hammond

    Internet Troll Gets Owned (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S56lpon1JX4

    • Scream Nevermore

      OMG, it’s Elle!!

      • Sherbet

        Dyin’ laughing here, Scream.

        • Scream Nevermore

          I’m on a sugar and cocodamol high, I talk all kinds of shite when I’m like this! 😉

          • Sherbet

            It suits you.

            • Scream Nevermore

              It’s what I was like before the menopause and arthritis drugs! 😉

  • Robert Hammond

    Internet Trolls: The Musical (refresh) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nS-QeM2ne8

  • MaxSpaceman

    One of the great, wonderful figures from the Critc Community 20 years ago, Karin Spaink. And The Fishman Affidavit.

    http://kspaink.home.xs4all.nl/fishman/index2.html

    • endoftheQ

      You think Mr. Ortega is going to play? !! ….

      • Kim O’Brien

        you should ask tony

        • endoftheQ

          He’s running scared. 😀

          • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

            I don’t even know the guy personally, but somehow I doubt that.

          • Suzanna Nielsen

            I see you are truly the asshole I always knew you were!

          • Lucille Austero

            He’s running scared like you are at cause over MEST.

          • Dr_Orpheus

            He’s brave enough to be frequently interviewed. Your Chicken of the Board hasn’t done a single one since 1998.

        • Newiga

          I don’t know if that contributes to his/her stats… Thursday 2 pm is a day away…

    • Juicer77

      Thanks for the link, hadn’t seen this one before. 🙂

      • MaxSpaceman

        This is the original one. And Karin’s story is a great saga.

    • SarahDB

      Once again the troll is trying to derail any conversation about this link and thinks they win if people respond.

  • SP Wogsy

    O/T but we have 401 recommends on yestedays post. Way to go Bunker!

  • Jimmy3

    Screw it. Enough is enough. Since no one seems to want to do it, I’ll ask Tony.
    But what am I asking him?

    • Kim O’Brien

      🙂 they keep asking us to contact Tony if we are bothered by them . They say ” ask Tony ) . SO ..i just respond the same way . It’s fun …kinda like playing with a retarded kitten . Plus , i am bored at work so ….

    • SP Wogsy

      I don’t even want to know. I’m staying out of this one.

      • Jimmy3

        Why don’t you ask him what I should ask him?

        • Sherbet

          Go ask Alice.

          • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

            when she’s 10 feet tall?

            • Newiga

              Tell ’em a hookah-smoking caterpillar has given you the call….

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              hahaha – I have the song in my iTunes library but can’t recall all the lyrics off the top of my head.

            • Newiga

              I love the song! One of their best, IMHO.

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              “remember what the doormouse said…feed your head!”

              I’ve got an eclectic iTunes library. REALLY eclectic. 😛 I go from rap to the coasters to goth/industrial to 60’s-folk psychedelic, etc…

            • Sherbet

              It’s not “keep your head”? Ooops!

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              I’m not entirely certain because it sounds like it could be either depending on where the chorus comes in on the track.

            • Sherbet

              “Misheard Lyrics” — so funny!

            • Newiga

              You weren’t too far off.

            • Robert Eckert

              You’ve got hold on, to what we’ve got, doesn’t make a difference if we’re naked or not…

            • Sherbet

              Hahaha! How about Steve Winwood’s “Give Me an Iron Lung.”

            • Newiga
            • Robert Eckert

              We count only blue cars… we meet many crossed-eyed people… and ask many questions, like chickens often do…

            • Scream Nevermore

              ‘Excuse me while I kiss this guy’! 😉

            • Robert Eckert

              FEED your head, feed your head

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              I already said that! 😛

            • Robert Eckert

              I owe you a Coke

            • PantalonesCalienteYDelicioso

              Oooohhh my favorite…as long as it’s classic coca-cola, I don’t do that mess “Coke” formula they did for a minute before returning to their original. 🙂

            • Sherbet

              Keep your head.

            • Sherbet

              Where’s our hookah-smoking Baby been lately? How about Mark Foster? I haven’t seen either very much.

            • Newiga

              Me neither… 🙁 I hope everything’s OK with them.

              Then again, I’ve been away for a couple of days too.. So, I might have missed them.

            • Scream Nevermore

              I saw mark on Twitter a few minutes ago, so he might pop in soon.

            • Sherbet

              That’s good.

            • Scream Nevermore

              I saw Mark on Twitter a few mins ago.

            • SP Wogsy

              Baby was here yesterday night.

            • Sherbet

              Oh, good.

            • Baby is here. Mark is MIA.

        • SP Wogsy

          Why don’t you ask him if I should ask him what you should ask him?

    • Beth

      you’re asking if there’s any ‘official’ policy about bronies posting in the bunker:

      • SarahDB

        that is just sooooo wrong! lmao

        • Beth

          hey! you insulting my boyfriend? 😉

          • beauty for ashes

            No, I loooove it!!!

    • Lucille Austero

      Something about touching and the little baby Jesus?

    • Eileen

      Ask him if Grundoon is AKA Marty Rathbun is AKA Endof Q

  • joan nieman

    Regarding the Fishman story, it is not surprising that a conman had a link to scientology. Why are we not surprised? The cherch carries on with scamming people for huge sums of money but because they are a religion, no penalties forthcoming. It kind of just makes one sick that this is okay for the chult but not an individual. Double standards here?

    • Scream Nevermore

      No doubt they’d argue that scamming is part of their ‘religion’ and therefore a protected practice. Not that that makes it any less of a double standard.

      • Dr_Orpheus

        They save the scamming is part of our religion excuse for court cases where there doesn’t appear to be another way to avoid an unfavorable judgment. They never admit to it unless it is the last resort.

        • Scream Nevermore

          ‘Your honour, we prefer to call it an ecclesiastical fund-raising method…’

          • Mockingbird

            Good one .

          • Dr_Orpheus

            How about an extreme ecclesiastical fund raising method? The term beating can be replaced by extreme ecclesiastical ethics action. Scientology- the Extreme Religion!

  • Andrea ‘i-Betty’ Garner

    Remember you can collapse entire threads if you can’t be arsed with the several linear feet of trollery in today’s comments.

    • Kestrel

      I wish there was a “collapse for good” on Disqus threads so that they wouldn’t re-open when I F5 or leave and come back. Even better would be to stop feeding them.

      • LongtimeLurker

        Why isn’t there a “don’t show any of this commenters comments”?

        Or is there, and I’m the only one who didn’t know.

        • Robert Eckert

          Many message-board softwares do have that kind of “block this guy” button, but Disqus lacks it.

          • LongtimeLurker

            Yeah, I’ve seen it elsewhere.