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AUDIO LEAK: Hear a Scientologist being declared suppressive and facing the loss of her family

Sylvia_DeWall
Yesterday, Alex Gibney’s documentary Going Clear introduced millions of Americans to Scientology’s concepts about declaring people “suppressive” and ordering them to “disconnect” from each other, resulting in families being ripped apart.

Today, we have one of the most dramatic examples of it ever caught on tape. The Underground Bunker has obtained a stunning audio recording which captures the moment when a woman is told she is being declared a “suppressive person” or “SP” by a Scientology ethics officer, and she realizes that it may tear apart her family.

Even more remarkable, we hear from the ethics officer’s own mouth that Sylvia DeWall (pictured) is being declared suppressive for…

— Watching Going Clear author Lawrence Wright being interviewed on television.
— Watching actress and former Scientologist Leah Remini perform on Dancing with the Stars.
— Having phone conversations with actor Jason Beghe.
— Sending emails to former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder.
— And commenting on the photos of former Scientologists on Facebook.

These were the crimes that caused Sylvia DeWall to be expelled from Scientology, endangering her marriage and relationship to her own children.

“So you’re going to label me a suppressive? That means my husband has to divorce me. That means I lose half of my clients. That means my son, who is in a band with a Scientologist who’s about to make a big record, can’t be in that band anymore. Or he has to disconnect from his mother,” Sylvia says to the unflappable ethics officer who can be heard telling Sylvia that she needs to take responsibility for her actions.

Which, we’ll repeat, included watching Lawrence Wright and Leah Remini on television.

Recordings of actual Scientology ethics actions are very rare. In 2011, we wrote about a similar confrontation which involved then-spokesman Tommy Davis, who was secretly recorded telling a young church member that he had to quit his job working for an “SP” or he’d lose all contact with his family, who were all Scientologists. In 2009, Larry Anderson, who had appeared in a key orientation film for Scientology, openly recorded his own meeting with Tommy Davis to ask for a refund as he was leaving the church.

And now, we have a recording of a meeting that took place on August 19 in Clearwater, Florida that captures the kind of moment we often hear about, but rarely get to listen in on.

Sylvia Wagner was introduced to Scientology by her parents when they had her take a beginning Communications Course in 1978. The next year, she and her parents joined the elite Sea Org with its billion-year contracts, but her parents lasted only a week. Sylvia lasted just six months. But she managed to stay in good standing with the church as she continued school and then joined the Air Force in 1983. She didn’t get back to Scientology until 1994, and then she married another Scientologist, Tim DeWall, in 1997.

DeWall had started in Scientology in 1984, then moved from St. Louis to Tampa, where he joined staff. From 1988 to 1992 he was the executive director of the Tampa “org.” Between the two of them, Tim and Sylvia have three children, all of whom went to Scientology schools. But by 2009, Sylvia was having doubts about Scientology again. Tim, meanwhile, remained avidly involved, and referred to himself as “Mr. Church” as far as his devotion to the organization.

In 2013, Scientologists were preparing for a landmark celebration. After 15 years, the new Flag Building in Clearwater was opening in November and it would deliver highly anticipated “Super Power” processes involving strange contraptions. But in October, Sylvia’s auditor told her that the Flag Master-at-Arms (MAA), a man named Patricio, had ordered that she be subjected to an extensive series of “sec checks.”

Security checks are interrogations. Someone had snitched on Sylvia, which is pretty common in Scientology, where members are encouraged to write up and submit “Knowledge Reports” or “KRs” about other members and turn them in for “ethics” violations. In this case, someone had noticed that Sylvia’s doubts had led her to communicate with some ex-members who had been declared suppressive persons. Sylvia went into her sec check with some trepidation. Like other Scientologists, she believed that it would be impossible to hold back information from the “E-meter,” which members believe can read minds. A skilled auditor can, with an e-meter, find what unethical acts (“overts”) a member was trying to keep hidden (“withholds”). So, like many Scientologists, Sylvia didn’t even try to hold back and spilled her guts about what she’d been up to.

The sec check lasted three weeks. It took so long, Sylvia and Tim were unable to go to the grand opening of the Flag Building, an event that was attended by both Tom Cruise and John Travolta. And while the lavish events around the grand opening were happening, Sylvia not only was being interrogated, she also had to pay for the privilege. The DeWalls owned a paint contracting business, and they worked out a deal to paint her auditor’s house to pay for the sec check, a value of about $4,500. In the interrogation, Sylvia admitted to various interactions with suppressive persons, and her auditor wrote it all down in a Knowledge Report for the Master-at-Arms. He let Sylvia see the report, and she thought he had exaggerated what she had said. So she submitted a “false report report” to protect herself.

In January 2014, Patricio, the Master-at-Arms, called Sylvia in and laid out a program for her to make amends for her transgressions. She agreed to it, and says that by then she had realized that she was no longer, in her mind at least, a “Scientologist.” She wanted to continue to have a good relationship with the church because her husband was still so dedicated, but she only wanted to help out at events or do other support work. Over the next several months, she and her auditor tried to work out a schedule for making progress on her program, but they were both traveling, which made it difficult.

Then, in August 2014, Sylvia heard from the new Master-at-Arms, a young man named Daniel. He asked to meet Sylvia at a location on Fort Harrison Avenue in Clearwater, but not at one of Scientology’s major buildings on that road. This address was a nondescript building with no signage, only a pair of double doors. Ironically, it was directly across the street from a storefront called “Sage” where Sylvia, until just a few months before, had operated a party space for weddings. (See the image on the video, below. The Scientology building is on the right.)

When he heard about the location, in an out-of-the way office, Sylvia’s husband Tim told her he thought it was a sign that Sylvia was going to be declared a suppressive person. But she disagreed. She still had a program to work on that would allow her to stay in the good graces of the church while she wasn’t an active member, and she thought the new MAA simply wanted to talk about it with her.

On August 19, she went into the plain building and sat down with the new MAA in a room that, she noticed, obviously featured a camera in the ceiling. There was no expectation of privacy in this meeting. It was obvious it was being recorded. We have obtained a copy of a recording of the meeting, and we have edited out only a few seconds to shield the privacy of two people whose names were mentioned.

 

 
Follow along with our transcription and notes of the conversation.

Daniel: OK, so I wanted to basically go over with you the sec check KR’s that you had – you received a sec check at the end of 2013 and then I think Patricio was going to see you but you went out of town and Patricio went out of town and you never saw…
Sylvia: Yeah it was tough trying to hook up, but yeah…
Daniel: Yeah, so I just got them recently because he’s still out of town.
Sylvia: OK
Daniel: So, I then I just…we need to do something so I finally found them and I looked at them. Now, in the KR’s, from what I’ve read, there are a number of different suppressive acts that are in here.
Sylvia: OK. Can you explain to me…
Daniel: Yeah. Specifically like communication with Jason Beghe – giving him the mail that you had received. Um… comm between September 2009 and July 2010…

Actor Jason Beghe defected from Scientology in 2007 and famously went public about it early in 2008. A year later, Sylvia reached out to him, wanting to talk about her doubts. She also mailed to him Scientology magazines to keep him up on what was happening in the church. We talked to Beghe, and he says he does remember having conversations with Sylvia.

Daniel: [Met with name, redacted], saw her about twelve times and nattered about the release of the Basics.

Sylvia had admitted that she met with a woman who had been expelled from the church, and they “nattered” about — criticized — the 2007 re-release of L. Ron Hubbard’s early books (“The Basics”). Scientologists were required to purchase sets of the new books and lectures, which had been slightly edited and fully redesigned, at $3,000 per set, even if they already had previous versions of them. Many Scientologists saw it as a cash grab by Scientology leader David Miscavige.

Daniel: In 2009 you were with several declared people. This is the one that had been reported as a photo on your Facebook that I think Patricio saw you on at that time.
Sylvia: It wasn’t on my Facebook.
Daniel: It was a Facebook.
Sylvia: It was the Boshoffs who felt like they needed to put it out there.
Daniel: Right.

Sylvia says that in July 2010 she went to a family party, and realized that some people at the party had been declared suppressive. She decided she didn’t care and stayed. At some point, she was asked to pose in a group photo, and someone posted the photo to Facebook. Sylvia didn’t take or post the photo, but just appearing in the image with “SPs” was enough to be considered a crime.

Daniel: So in September 2007 through August 2009 you looked at websites containing – reporting to contain OT materials. This occurred weekly.

The MAA catches himself here in an interesting way. He is about to accuse Sylvia of looking at websites that contain Scientology’s secret upper-level “OT” or “Operating Thetan” materials, which Scientologists pay huge amounts to attain. Instead of admitting that those materials can be had for free on non-church websites, he says that they are sites “reporting to contain” the precious secrets of the church.

Daniel: Sylvia remained connected to Creed Pearson after finding out he was declared. This continued six times for a few months. She also smoked pot with him for a few of those times. She went to see him at his then girlfriend Christine ministry – Christian ministry – at his then girlfriend’s Christian ministry, and he came to the Sage several times. August 2013 was the last time you saw him. Patricio said you saw him after he threatened suicide to get him back in the church.

Sylvia says Creed Pearson was the first person she knew who had been declared. She says that Pearson was a wealthy man with a family who had been declared suppressive because he had found and pointed out errors in L. Ron Hubbard’s lectures and books. After he was kicked out, his family fell apart and Creed fell on hard times. But Sylvia had reached out to him, and that was a “crime.”

Daniel: July 2010 Sylvia got Mike Rinder’s email. She wrote on his blog a few times and cognited she had to stay off these types of lines.

Sylvia says she never commented at Rinder’s blog, but did send him emails. Rinder defected from Scientology in 2007 after he had been its international spokesman. Miscavige considered him a major enemy to the organization.

Daniel: One and a half years ago she asked Mark Schreffler what happened on his Facebook page. There was no follow up after he answered her in a neutral way.

In 2012, a well known figure in the church, Mark Shreffler, announced at Marty Rathbun’s blog that he had left the organization to become an “independent Scientologist.” Sylvia, curious about his announcement, reached out to him with a private Facebook message.

Daniel: She watched several interviews with Lawrence Wright last winter. She wrote on his Facebook page that she appreciated his objectivity. She has since disconnected from him. She watched Leah Remini a number of times on Google News, the Ellen Show, and Dancing with the Stars during the period of June, July, and August 2013.

You can hear with your own ears that Scientology’s ethics officer will consider you suppressive for even watching the likes of Lawrence Wright and Leah Remini on television — even if it only involves dancing. Also, as a reminder, this Sea Org ethics officer only knows that Sylvia watched these shows because Sylvia divulged it in an intense three week long interrogation. And speaking of thought crimes…

Daniel: She was curious about the issue of what happened with Shelly Miscavige.

Aren’t we all? In Scientology, however, even admitting to wondering about Shelly — who disappeared ten years ago this summer — is a high crime.

Daniel: Two years ago Lucas…is it Tan or Tanning?
Sylvia: Catton
Daniel: Can?
Sylvia: Catton
Daniel: Oh. Catton.
Sylvia: Yeah. Did… Can I ask… Was there a false report that accompanied this? Because I wrote a false report report.
Daniel: On that specific one or the whole thing?
Sylvia: The whole thing.
Daniel: No. But you got the sec check and felt these were wrong?
Sylvia: Yeah.
Daniel: Right…
Sylvia: And John said, well, write your false report report. And I did and I routed it to him and he said “looks good.” So I assumed it had accompanied this.
Daniel: No. Or has any of the stuff I said accurate?
Sylvia: Uh no. Well, it’s generalized and exaggerated. When it says “several times,” a few times and that sort of thing. And why, um…
Daniel: OK. Well, I’ll continue then though, right? Two years ago, so, Lucas Catton contacted you to find out if the stepfather of his daughter was a suitable parent for his child. You asked for information about what happened at Narconon and why he was declared. Uh, one month ago he contacted you again to find out why you had unfriended him on Facebook and you told him you wanted to follow the rules. Those are them…

Lucas Catton at one time was the president of Scientology’s flagship drug rehab facility in Oklahoma, Narconon Arrowhead. He has since defected and wrote a book about his experiences. Also, in this section, you can see Sylvia raise her first objection to this list of transgressions, saying that they are exaggerated, which she indicated in her “false report report.”

Daniel: And then more recently there were posts that you had made on Nick Lister and Aaron Smith-Levin’s Facebook page.
Sylvia: There were “posts?”
Daniel: Posts. Like comments you had made on photos of theirs?
Sylvia: Yeah. I did comment on them. But I’ve unfriended them.

And finally, the last of her crimes is simply commenting on photos on the Facebook pages of two expelled Scientologists, Nick Lister and Aaron Smith-Levin.

Daniel: Right. So, the problem is that like these different things, even if it was one time, and there was a reason why or whatever and it continues to come up and these things are suppressive acts. So I’m going to give you the PL [policy letter], the HCO PL on suppressive acts…
Sylvia: Can I stop you for a second?
Daniel: OK.
Sylvia: Because, what was definitely neglected in the KR, that did come up in the sec check, was, as I’m reading the program I was given, at one point, it was the Code of a Scientologist. And I cognited [realized], I’m not. I am not a Scientologist. And, um, the desire to be in a church does not appeal to me. I don’t like the rules. Um, I’m not an enemy. I’m very supportive. If you’d heard the conversations between me and my husband, who said he would come down here. He will make a statement, to get his ass on course at Belleair mission, because he has gains. He has wins. He’s happy. I’ve never invalidated his wins nor his gains. But I am not church material. I have finally cognited on that. And I am not an enemy. I am not an enemy. In fact, I think if you look over the last 35 years of my connection to the church, you’ll see I’ve done maybe half a dozen courses. OK? And a few seminars… My interest has always been in helping the community. Volunteer, volunteer, volunteer. When I came to Clearwater twenty years ago, I was like jumping for anything and everything that I could volunteer. I painted Winter Wonderland. OK? Way to Happiness. I’m there. I’m handing them out. I love The Way to Happiness. I’m not going to be one of those that are going to be able to abide by the rules. Um, I’m not out there telling people to not do that. It’s just me. I’m not that.
Daniel: Um hmm…

When Daniel mentions that he’s going to give Sylvia the Policy Letter on suppressive acts, she knows what’s coming. He’s about to declare her a suppressive person, which could devastate her family. She reacts by trying to hold him off, explaining that she doesn’t even really consider herself a Scientologist anymore, but just a sort of volunteer who will help hand out booklets of The Way to Happiness, a bland collection of life advice that the church disseminates to prop up the image of L. Ron Hubbard. She’s now going to explain how she does have some involvement with Scientology materials, but it’s convinced her she’s not a full member.

Sylvia: And I know, I’m scared. I’m scared about telling you this. I’ve read up, and it’s like I’m not making a public announcement. I’m not telling my friends this. I applaud their wins because they look happier. They look brighter. I’ve indulged myself. I have the congresses awarded to me by Ann Manierre at the mission. I’ve been, myself, going through these congresses. I like that. I enjoy that part. What I don’t enjoy is this. Because for me, it squishes me. And though it’s been explained. I’ve read the policies and everything else. I’ve word cleared it and I’m like I still disagree. And LRH says I can do that. And he also said it’s not for everyone. I’m like, well, you know…it’s…there’s certain parts of the tech I do disagree with, but I have to say 99.9 percent of it I love. That’s the tech. But for me, the church, it doesn’t interest me.
Daniel: OK
Sylvia: And, where we go from there, it’s like I’m not, I’m just not getting enthused about doing a program to come back on board. I have no intention, at this point, of coming back into a course room. I might do extension courses. But quite frankly, the congresses are probably going to take me, at my rate, about the next three or four years. And I’ve got two kids in college, one in a rock band. That’s where my heart lies. And I’m also trying to finish my degree so I can start a camp, you know? Where I can incorporate The Way to Happiness, but…
Daniel: Totally fine. So, basically, the point is like these actions that are laid out in the sec check here, like connecting up with declared SP’s, these things are, these people are enemies of our church.
Sylvia: I do understand that.
Daniel: Right. So, you don’t want to do it? I’m not here to try and handle you to do it at all. But these actions per our policies are suppressive acts, and they get labeled as such. And the problem with living in Clearwater, is that there are many, tons of Scientologists…
Sylvia: Yes there are. John Bellmaine’s like “well, what are you doing here?”
Daniel: And community actions. Yeah you can do things that are not for Scientologists, for sure. But a lot of the community actions, especially in like downtown Clearwater, and the things you’re talking about, The Way to Happiness, these things are generally with Scientologists. Maybe they’re not, fine. No one is forcing you…do whatever you want. I’m not here to tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. But, my point is that those things are suppressive acts towards the church. Whether you’re a Scientologist or whether you are not a Scientologist. But you can not do them, that’s fine. I’m just telling you that those things get labeled as such. So I’m going to give you the policy letter so you can read it. If you do want to…
Sylvia: I have read it and I understand… I hope that you will consider the intention behind it. It wasn’t to harm the church. It wasn’t to pick up a picket sign or anything like that. OK? It was out of simple curiosity. Especially the call with… or it wasn’t a call. It was an email with Mark Schreffler. “What happened, Schreff?” OK? It freaked me out. OK? And I think anybody with a curious mind would want to ask the guy “what the hell?” You know? And I did read Debbie Cook’s letter because I love Debbie Cook. I went to the meetings – the CEC… And I was like “what the hell?”
Daniel: Right.
Sylvia: This doesn’t make any sense to me. So, I pursued that. I did. I did that. Now I didn’t mean to. The only reason I…I make a comment or, uh, even contact someone like Nick Lister is because my heart goes out to him. He’s my daughter’s age. He’s been cut off. I’ve been cut off. I’ve experienced that just a smidge when the Boshoffs felt like they had to put my picture with the people I had just met that night. I didn’t even know they were suppressives or declared persons until I was there.
Daniel: Right.
Sylvia: Sure. I should have gotten up, but four or five drinks later they take my picture and put it on Facebook. Great. OK? So then the Boshoffs ran with it. That was upsetting because what happens is that I go from about 1200 people on my friends list to about two hundred in three days. And nobody asked questions. Nobody came to me. That was a little heart wrenching. And so I know how Nick feels. And I don’t… and I know how Creed felt. Creed wanted to kill himself. It is horrid and that is one of the reasons I am not interested in the whole church thing. Because I think it’s – I don’t agree with it. I can’t agree with it. And I’ve been shown policies… and I can’t. I told myself I wasn’t going to get emotional and I’m just going to TR-3 it.
Daniel: Fine. I’m not here to handle you to do it.
Sylvia: But I’m, I know, but…
Daniel: These things get labeled. And they get… You know, people who do these things do get labeled. And so, I didn’t want to all of a sudden just have a label happen when no one had spoken to you in seven, eight months. That’s why I decided to see you.
Sylvia: OK.
Daniel: Because at least it’s… I’m telling you, I wanted to give you the policy. You don’t have to take it if you don’t want to. It’s in the ethics book, as well. It gives the steps if one does want to get back in good standing. Um… that was the main reason. I just didn’t want it to be out of the blue.
Sylvia: OK. All right. What’s going to be out of the blue? What’s coming. What is coming?
Daniel: Like what I’m saying is that if someone commits a suppressive act they get labeled.
Sylvia: So you’re going to actually label me a suppressive?
Daniel: For committing the suppressive acts, yes.

What Sylvia has been dreading, and trying to stave off, is now out in the open. She’s been expelled from the Church of Scientology as a suppressive person, and all people who want to remain in good standing with the church — including her own family members — will have to “disconnect” from her, cutting off all contact.

Sylvia: Do you understand what that is going to do to me?
Daniel: I think that the actions you have taken…
Sylvia: I’m telling you right now that I’m not even a member of the church but you’re still labeling me. How does that work?
Daniel: Well, look at the actions you have done. I can just explain they’re covered…
Sylvia: But if I did it as a non-member – I don’t even have a membership. I’ve never had a membership.
Daniel: OK.
Sylvia: So anybody, anybody in this whole planet, whoever spoke with Nick Lister is a suppressive?
Daniel: Well, somehow you’ve had some connection to the org or to the church. I mean I’m seeing it now…
Sylvia: Everybody in this town had had some involvement with the church. The Mayor… Can the mayor not speak to Nick?
Daniel: I think you’re more of a Scientologist than the mayor.
Sylvia: I’m telling you right now I’m not a Scientologist.
Daniel: Fine. Maybe you were more of one.
Sylvia: So you’re going to label me a suppressive? That means my husband has to divorce me. That means I lose half of my clients. That means my son, who is in a band with a Scientologist, who’s about to make a big record, can’t be in that band anymore. Or he has to disconnect from his mother. I have to disconnect from my brother. I’ve lost two to death. And now I’m going to lose to disconnection. Does, does this make any sense?
Daniel: I’m just telling you, you need to look at – take responsibility for your actions that you’ve done.
Sylvia: They weren’t suppressive. There was not any harm intended. I had a communication. I have seen Drew Sweet on the street, say “Hey, Creed. How ya doin?” You know? He responded to a communication. How come he’s not in here having to do this? Why isn’t he labeled a suppressive?
Daniel: I don’t know. Did you report him?
Sylvia: He didn’t report himself? My goodness!
Daniel: I don’t know. It’s the first time I’ve heard about it. I’m just telling you that you need to take responsibility for your actions. You can handle it.
Sylvia: By doing the program.
Daniel: It’s covered in the reference. It’s covered in the HCO PL. You can have a copy or it’s in the ethics book.

Scientologists who are declared suppressive can get back in good standing by accomplishing the “A to E steps” of a program of contrition and reindoctrination. Until that time, the suppressive may only communicate with the International Justice Chief, who determines if the A to E steps are being properly fulfilled.

Sylvia: Am I going to see said declaration?
Daniel: When it gets approved then the justice chief will contact you.
Sylvia: And what is that… Then what happens?
Daniel: He’ll go over with you the different steps, options, etc. He’ll be your terminal, your only terminal to the church.
Sylvia: This is, this is really…mean. This is suppressive, what you’re doing. I am a good person. I have got a shitload of commends from this organization. Nobody’s even bothered to look. I don’t even put my name anymore. Pam Anderson wants me to put my name on this list every time I check in at Winter Wonderland. And I say that’s not why I’m doing it, OK? I’m not trying to get a commendation from the Church of Scientology. I’m doing it because I love kids. I am not a suppressive.
Daniel: OK. You’ve committed suppressive acts.
Sylvia: With this organization which I am not a part of.
Daniel: OK. I get that. Somehow you’ve connected yourself into the group.
Sylvia: That’s… How do you sit there so calmly and destroy someone’s life? How do you do it?
Daniel: You need to take a look at your actions…
Sylvia: No. My actions are fine. Anybody outside this room – in the real world – would have read that and gone “What? You commented on someone’s Facebook post?” And by the way, who’s policing the Facebook? Who reported it?
Daniel: Anyone can see it…
Sylvia: Yeah. Who? Who is it that has time to police my Facebook page? Who?
Daniel: I don’t know.
Sylvia: Bullshit.
Daniel: I received it…
Sylvia: Let me see it.
Daniel: I don’t have them here with me….
Sylvia: You don’t even have a report.
Daniel: I have it here. In my office I have your file. I didn’t bring the whole file…
Sylvia: So, what, the only thing you can show me are my own admissions in my sec check. That’s it? I came to you guys. For being there and communicating you’re declaring me. You don’t have one KR. That’s why I was told I had to do a sec check. Was all these KR’s. And I’m like “Can I see them?” And I never got to see them. Never. Not once. And I’ve requested and requested. And got the run around from John, from Patricio, from Ann Manierre – nobody ever showed them to me.
Daniel: OK. I got that. I didn’t know that. It’s the first time I’ve spoken to you. So…
Sylvia: This is injustice. This is injustice. I have done nothing but communicate.
Daniel: OK. So I think you should read this suppressive acts PL. It gives you your rights in there and your options in there…
Sylvia: My options are I have to move out. Divorce my husband…
Daniel: I mean you can read the reference and see what the options are.
Sylvia: Or jeopardize my own personal integrity. That’s what you’re saying. I have to go against my own integrity. Are you watching this? Is he watching this? [Gesturing to the camera, Sylvia is asking whether David Miscavige is watching.]
Daniel: I think you should just read this PL and then you can see what your options are from there.
Sylvia: Jesus Christ. Well, you did your drill well. Your TR’s are spot on, buddy.

Sylvia finishes the meeting by referring to Daniel’s “TRs,” meaning that she’s mockingly congratulating him on his robotic manner.

And so Sylvia headed home, terrified by the thought of telling her “Mr. Church” husband that she’d been declared, and informing him that he now faced the choice of staying in Scientology and divorcing her, or staying married and getting declared himself.

“She was toast,” Tim DeWall tells us, remembering what Sylvia looked like when she arrived home from the meeting. “It had sucked the life out of her. And she didn’t know how I was going to react. You have to understand, I was Mr. Church. I’d been in a long time,” he says.

“I just told her, I understand, you’re declared. She was just sort of speechless. I told her, I have a decision to make. I’m going to sit here calmly — I had to go through that process,” he says.

They were not only facing the prospect of having to split up, but most of their customers were Scientologists. And once they heard Sylvia had been declared, those customers would stop calling.

Sylvia tells us she honestly didn’t know what Tim was going to decide.

“I made the decision that my wife was more important to me than a disconnection order on a piece of paper. I thought about the repercussions for our kids, too, and would I be in a position that I’d have to disconnect from one or more of them. No, my future was more important with my family than with a church organization,” he says.

Tim says that after making that decision, he wanted to learn more about the church — why would it do something so cruel? So he allowed himself to begin looking on the Internet. “I really liked what Chris Shelton was saying. And Dave Fagen. But it was Paul Haggis who really helped me. Because I wasn’t insane,” he says. “I spent three weeks of searching on the Internet after 30 years in the church. I was a former executive director, I had handled Office of Special Affairs stuff. I always suspected there were problems but I had turned a blind eye to it.”

Their minds made up, the DeWalls acted quickly. “We sold our business and our house and we moved to Arizona,” Sylvia says. “We had the intention of being independent Scientologists, but then you go through the Internet and read everything, and we ended up throwing out all the books.”

Just seven months after Sylvia was declared, the DeWalls have relocated to Arizona and have started a new painting business. Their three children, despite being educated in Scientology schools (“Which messed up their educations,” Sylvia complains) are also out of Scientology entirely.

Sylvia_Tim_DeWall

 
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Posted by Tony Ortega on March 30, 2015 at 07:00

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Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

Our Guide to Alex Gibney’s film ‘Going Clear,’ and our pages about its principal figures…
Jason Beghe | Tom DeVocht | Sara Goldberg | Paul Haggis | Mark “Marty” Rathbun | Mike Rinder | Spanky Taylor | Hana Whitfield

 

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  • AngryElf

    I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading the tweets from people who had little or no knowledge of Scientology before Going Clear. I imagine it’s similar to how I felt when I read the Time article all those years ago.
    http://www.salon.com/2015/03/30/tom_cruise_is_scum_read_peoples_stunned_reactions_to_scientology_documentary_going_clear/

  • Sejanus

    Just listened to the audio of Sylvia once again.
    Hearing the tone in that little prick Daniels voice makes me want to smack the smug out of him.

    I notice something interesting with Sea Org flunkies. All of them seem to have very limited skills with the English language. They are not well spoken for such superior beings and they all sound like Tommy Davis, douche nozzle extraordinaire.

    Sylvia just did an incredible thing and I am super impressed by her.
    The lies and disrespect shown by the cult are heinous.

    • Lucille Austero

      Extra points for “douche nozzle.”

      • Sejanus

        happily accepted…..

        (likely the only way the guy has ever been near a vagina.)

        • richelieu jr

          And yet I’ve never heard a bigger pussy in my life.. Hiding behind Davey’s skirts as he tries to talk down to a woman who has the moral high-ground and is honestly showing the flaws in his stupid reasoning right in front of him…

          After he went home, strapped a prosthetic sebaceous cyst on his forehead, knelt in a pair of shoes so he’d look like a dwarf in a 6th-grade talent show and began jabbing his finger out at little dolls in front of him as he ^$*%%ù@ out his two-incher (so proud it felt like nearly three!) and celebrated onto a picture of his idol Tommy Davis…

          “Confront and %$*§@@é&!” he said proudly, as he remembered how he’d briefly held power over someone who would surely have rejected him in High School or at any point thereafter, being a superior human being and possessing a complete frontal lobe to her brain.

      • Mark Foster

        However, REAL douche nozzles are useful. 🙂

  • The unfortunate truth is that in the United States religion has been consistently proven to be more important than human rights. Case in point, this “Religious Freedom” bill in Indiana that makes it state number 19 that legally allows your employer to fire you for violating his or her religious tenets.

    That caused me to feel as defeated as the ruling in the Garcia case. This country is beyond stupid. At least a part of it anyway. In fact it’s the primary reason I left Texas, not that California is a whole lot better–but it’s better than Texas, that’s for sure. It’s bullshit like that, that keeps Scientology alive and well.

    • Frodis73

      Yep! I agree with you Derek. Makes me want to move (again!) out of the country.

      • Miss Tia

        we need a bunker!!

    • Miss Tia

      Ohio was trying—and will probably try again—one of those hate based laws. It’s sickening and i am perpetually flummoxed how people can AGREE with those laws!

  • nottrue

    ….

    • One Human

      ooh, a fresh vein of lulz gold!

    • Observer

      I hope they publish the best ones!

      • kemist

        They could post a video of Jason Beghe reading them on Youtube, accompanied by soothing classical music. Or perhaps We Stand Tall.

        • splog

          For the lulz: Ask Jason to read them out loud, inserting as “fuck” after every third word.

          They would probably make perfect sense then!

          • One Human

            Mike Rinder too, hell, the whole lot of exes!

    • Sejanus

      Migosh lookit that stack..looks like almost every active $cientologist wrote in.
      Were there any written that weren’t from staff?
      How could they comment on something they were not allowed to see?

      Can a network be declared suppressive?
      If it is declared and they all contacted him….can they be declared like Sylvia was?

      • Juicer77

        Please tell me everyone who was ordered to write a letter is now curious enough to sneak out and see the film somehow!

        • One Human

          Perhaps all of the “one-sided” nonsense will trigger them.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Curious? No.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I hope they will note how many letters from “ordinary” members have identical wording.

    • generic sock

      At least our beloved Felled Oak did not die in vain. He just moved on to a new calling: stationery for butthurt letters.

    • kemist

      And that’s our former trolls main occupation these days.

      I wonder how many points they get per letter, and what the emails containing the letter writing “hat” looks like. Someone leak one to Mike Rinder for thursday plox. Think of the lulz !

    • Juicer77

      One person, somewhere, has a twisted claw for a writing hand today.

    • Betsy

      I assume that the above snail mail stuff was all sent in by Scilons, since they aren’t allowed to go on the Internet.

    • Lucille Austero

      Ooh…what are these rectangle thingees with writing on the outside?

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Mail-mail. It’s how people communicated back in the 1950s.

        On Marcab.

        • kemist

          Which looked exactly like 1950s Earth, but 75 zillion years ago, except it was overpopulated but everyone still managed to have a 1950’s size car. And spaceships that looked DC-8s.

          • sugarplumfairy

            If they’d all had jim dandy whizzers to ride instead of those cars, maybe the whole debacle could have been avoided and we’d have no body thetans to exorcise..

            • kemist

              It puzzles me how a guy straight out of the 1950’s could think about “overpopulation” as an actual problem in the west, or that an overpopulated country would look just like 1950’s north america. Look, dude, if your country/planet/whatever is overpopulated, its people won’t be moving around in 1950’s motorboat-sized cars. They’ll be using mass transport, bikes, and things like these :

          • splog

            I’m confused. If they had 75 or so planets in the confederacy, and 30 billion or whatever it was population per planet, how the hell did they manufacture 2 and a quarter TRILLION fedora hats???!!!!????

            the mind boggles

        • Lucille Austero

          I like them. I want one. How do I get one of these “mail?”

          • Douglas D. Douglas

            Just print your name and address here and a batch will be on its way. But I’d recommend you get the cat in, first.

            • Juicer77

              NEWBIES, HE’S KIDDING DO NOT DO THIS!

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              Lucille and I, being old friends and all, enjoy whistling duets past the graveyard. As Juicer suggests, do not try this at home.

          • generic sock

            Sometimes I wait outside box until nice lady say “Honey pie, what are you doing out on the street? You might get hit, sweetie.”

            And then I steal her wallet and run away laughing. I love the USPS.

      • kemist

        I believe this is how primitive homo novii (novises ?) communicate.

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          It’ll be novises, I don’t imagine moRon knew how to conjugate Latin plurals 🙂 (or even knew it was derived from Latin!)

      • generic sock

        To be fair, we have to consider that they started this letter-writing campaign in 1972. It all just happened to be delivered at the right time.

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          That explains all the appeals to President Nixon…

    • One Human

      While I know we are trying to avoid the comparisons to the Third Reich, that letterhead just sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

      • Miss Tia

        how can you NOT avoid it, especially after that ‘war is over’ ‘triumph of will’ production?

      • L. C. Spencer

        YUP.

      • SNAFU

        Same here, but totalitarianism is broader, Godwin’s-free comparison.

    • Miss Tia

      Well at least they’re supporting the USPS? I suppose they don’t realize Jigsaw and/or Alex can make those correspondence public now…..

  • ParticleMom

    A happy ending! I wasn’t expecting that. No, no, these aren’t tears…must be allergies…

    What a great follow up to Going Clear last night.

  • Betsy
  • Lady Squash

    Good for the DeWalls’. Great story. They (the Church) are such fascist pigs hiding behind their f*cking pretend religion. Never thought I’d say such a thing. But it feels kinda good.

  • Juicer77

    Another shot from my Bunker Walkin’ NYC tour – Metropolitan Museum of Art. I just happened to stroll around the exhibits with my Going Clear tote bag over my shoulder. (Thanks to THDNE for the great gift 🙂

    • MaxSpaceman

      THDNE’s Going Clear Tote bags are the world’s coolest looking totes ! Go Juicer !

    • Miss Tia

      Oh my goodness!! I was gonna send THDNE cross stitched book marks for those bags!! I was gonna x-stitch Going Clear on a book mark! If you want one, let me know!!! I have a couple done that say Suppressive and I gotta find my stash, i think i have one YSCOHB……

      • Juicer77

        I would love a Suppressive!

        • Miss Tia

          email me your mailing addy tia(at)misstia(dot)com i’ll get it to you in the next couple days…..i made the suppressive with golden rod floss too! 🙂

  • Captain MustSavage

    John Travolta is a Qantas ambassador. People take planes to reunite them with family. Travolta shills for a cult that tears family apart. Any Aussies interested in a little letter writing campaign to Qantas?

    • Frodis73

      That is a good idea. U should repost a bit later when most of the folks from down under are on.

    • EnthralledObserver

      We’re on… well some of us. Bring it up later again though, as a reminder – swimming carnival today for my nearly 11 year old. We’re vying for age champion. Everyone cross fingers for her! 🙂

    • ahem

      pic

    • oh, and this one too

      • splog

        I wonder if Breitling will drop Travolta like Armstrong’s sponsors dropped him once the jig was up?

  • Minor quibble in Going Clear [11:05]. Hubbard doesn’t have the Guinness Record for most number of books published, but for the most published author with 1084 works. It’s a standard CoS tactic to equate Hubbard’s short stories with books.

    (Strange because he only had around 240 published fiction works, most of which were smaller than novel size. Either they’re counting his self-published Scientology stuff, or otherwise padding out the total. In any event, Isaac Asimov has far more published by real publishers, so any way you look at it, Guinness was paid, bribed or blackmailed.)

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Aaah, Isaac Asimov… proper science fiction (from a proper scientist!)

      • splog

        I never could get into Asimov, despite having (I think) a mostly complete collection of his work. I read his Robotics stories when at high school and found them interesting. Never touched Foundation at all. I think it’s his own statements about himself that put me off – he always came across as arrogant and know-it-all: I’m a *real* science fiction writer. With a PhD.

        I always like Heinlein, even during his weird incest phase. Larry Niven – Ringworld and the Puppeteers was gripping, couldn’t get enough. Frank Herbert is just awesome, even though books 5 & 6 of the Dune series were starting to reach. The new Dune stuff his son is putting out is mostly shyte.

        And Hubbard. Well, ‘ole Hubs don’t feature I’m afraid. In geeky maths terms:

        Hubbard:Science Fiction::My daughter finger painting at 5:da Vinci

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          I agree that his writing style can be quite an acquired taste, but one of the reasons I read his books was because he was a professor in biochemistry–I studied chemistry with modules in medicinal chemistry, heterocyclics, and protein engineering–which is about as biochemistry as you can get while still calling it chemistry, which is why I’ve had an affinity for his works.

          I also liked Arthur C Clarke, and as you say… Hubbard, who he?

          Love the geeky maths equivalency–so true 🙂

          (The only time Hubs ever came up was when I started researching Co$–and boy, does his writing {if it can even be described as that} suck.)

          • splog

            Arthur C. Clarke? OMG, how could I have forgotten him? He was eerily accurate with his descriptions of future technology; geosynchronous orbit and nanotubes to built a space elevator being just the first two I can think of.

            I have a dream – one day someone will film Rendezvous with Rama and get it *right*.

            Let’s not forget Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams (RIP and RIP), both mean IMHO wrote pure science fiction, wonderfully wrapped up in biting social commentary. I’m halfway through the Discworlds, and Mrs Splog is adamant one of them is modelled on scientology somehow, but won’t say. You, err, wouldn’t happen to know which one?

            • ScnMonkeyNuts

              Arthur C Clarke was a futurist par excellence, I second your dream, but didn’t know a film had been made (and surely the CGI technology could do it justice!)

              As for Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett–I mourn their passing every day, and regularly re–read them.

              In the later Discworld books, I think Moist von Lipwig is slightly Hubbardian in character as he’s a persistent con–man (who is, admittedly, put to the service of the city–after all, it was Albert Spangler that was hanged!), who realises that it’s not what you say to people, but how you say it–and manages to sell bits of paper as gold (Going Postal and Making Money) In the earlier books, then I would have to go for Small Gods for the dedicated (and disturbingly thought–stopping) followers of the one and only Great God Om (Holy Horns!) and Deacon Vorbis of the Quisition as Hubs. Or possibly Monstrous Regiment, for the increasingly deranged Abominations of Nuggan–it’s hard to say, and sorry I’ve given four answers and not one!

            • splog

              Morgan Freeman has been trying to film Rama for years, but can’t get a decent script. The CGI is also really really hard, 3 examples to show some work various folks have done:

              http://io9.com/how-rendezvous-with-rama-might-look-as-a-cg-film-1579846748
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY2Yt1ATm4c

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBIQCm54dfY

              I can’t shake the feeling that if a filmed Rama stays accurate to the book, viewers will be completely confused as everything inside Rama is inside-out. Imagine showing the cylindrical sea on screen and making it “real” to the audience.

              Nonetheless, I still hope someone more visual than me will get it right. After all, Nolan made Inception look completely real and the street folding upwards was totally beleivable

        • kemist

          I like Herbert a lot too.

          I’ve always thought a cult started by Herbert would at least have had fascinating writing and ideas. Hubbard’s writing just sucks so bad it’s torture reading him and his ideas are frankly childish and boring.

          I’m fascinated by how scientologists read that crap over and over again and think it’s brilliant. Dudes and dudettes, just read Dune and tell me again how good and original Mission Earth is.

          • splog

            ME? O.M.F.G. I bought that entire series when still in, book 1 was OK, 2 was fine. Halfway through 3 it started getting boring – same old crap over and over and over. The wind-up in book 10 was just … lame. So lame it makes Jar Jar Binks look awesome.

            Of course, as an in at the time, I suppressed such treacherous thoughts

    • splog

      Correction: 1084 works, including the 80% ghost written by A. N. Other (who we don’t talk about)

  • Samantha63

    Wow. Just wow…..reading the blow by blow makes you truly understand how sadistic and petty these people are, I mean…facebook posts and watching Dancing with the Stars? Really?

    She also made a good point that she never joined, so she didn’t think she had to follow every rule, I mean, otherwise all of Clearwater would have to, right? And although he had no valid response to that, and didn’t even have “her file” with him, he had no problem just calmly telling her that he was ending her life. And saying it in a way that you’d tell a 5 year old there’s no more pistachio ice cream left.

    What also struck me, is her asking about the other guy and did he self-report, and I thought that she was being sarcastic, but they were both serious. In fact, most of the info they had on her was because she had self-reported at an earlier date. So…this cult makes you so afraid, and so guilty, that you confess things before they find out about them, in hopes you won’t be sent to the hole or be separated from your family.

    You know, they had an old re-broadcast of Orson Wells 1984 on tv recently, so that’s fresh in my mind, and this reminds me a lot of that, the cold, calm way everything is handled (in the movie), and the made-up names of things, the spying, interrogation and torture, the “confessions”, the whole sacrifice for the greater good thing, and the leader worship.

  • nottrue
    • Silence of the Clams

      this just in…

  • Richard

    At the end of Going Clear, when everyone is giving their final thoughts, the music in the background is a piece by Fritz Kreisler, originally written for violin and piano, called “Liebesleid”.

    Translated it means “Love’s Sorrow.”

    Very appropriate.

    • flyonthewall

      thank you for that connection

    • Narapoid
    • BosonStark

      Yesterday, a few minutes after the documentary ended, I posted that you would know this, too.

      • Richard

        I didn’t see your comment until now,. but then again there were quite a few to read! Actually, I wasn’t around that day and only skimmed through a few comments the day after.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Forgive if a re-post (can’t go thru one thousand four hundred forty five posts). Heart’s in the right place from Mia Farrow–

  • richelieu jr

    Sheesh, I sure am glad for the happy ending! Everybody out… very nice. Restores a bit of faith in humanity, I must say.

    35 years in Scilon-land and only a couple of poorly educated kids t show for it? That’s a real deal!

    Hell, Will Smith only let his loon of a wife blow a bit of mad-money seeing how many children she could confuse and he’s had well-deserved career-damage and two kids who are worse than poorly-educated– they have become public loons and laughing-stocks.

    Congratulations to the whole family on sticking together…
    Now they can spend the next few decades beging forgiveness from the kids they nearly sold into slavery, which I am sure (at least extremely hopeful) will be granted and the whole mess will become a learning moment for the young ones, and mis-spent young and ealry middle-adult-hood for the parents.

    Such a nice ending to go to sleep on. I had been fearing the worst.

    Nitey-Nite, Bunkerites!

    • Juicer77

      Bonne nuit, monsieur le Cardinal!

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Sleep well, Richelieu 🙂

  • Rottulf

    Wish you and your family all the best. Welcome to the SP-order

  • L. Meyer

    How can anyone possibly think that that sort of strict business dealings would ever help their business at all. Scientology is making its own noose and will eventually hang itself.

  • richelieu jr

    Still no torrent-love and my promised DVR from an ‘insider’ has failed to materialize…

    If you can possibly help me, my students and certain journalist in France out– drop me line off-list, would you be so kind?

    Try me on: device AT noos DOT fr…

    Thanks!

    • kemist

      Check your mail.

      • richelieu jr

        Done, Thanks!

    • Scream Nevermore

      Monsieur le Cardinal, have you managed to obtain what you are looking for??

      • richelieu jr

        Yes, I have! Thanks so much!

  • Rottulf

    Lover her comment at the end. I agree, his TR4 wass terrible

  • Brian C. Bock

    This is heart breaking. I’m just glad it has a happy(ish) ending.

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Miscavige in handcuffs will be the real happy ending.

      Yeah, Dave……You!….in pretty, shiny bracelets.
      By the way, Dave….Marty was awesome in the movie.
      AWESOME.

      So was Mike.
      You however, are looking a bit worn these days.

  • aegerprimo

    I watched Going Clear with my best friend last night (a never-in). I decided not to comment during the movie because I wanted to see how Alex Gibney presented the info and did not want to ruin the experience of the movie for my friend. We were both pretty much quiet throughout except for some giggles and gasps from both of us. Towards the end she blurted, “what’s with the creepy carnival music?” and her face was not a look of approval. (We both giggled at the 1950’s sci-fi movie music in the middle of the film interviews though.)

    When the credits were rolling she looked at me and said, “I’m so glad you are not involved with that craziness anymore.” I gave her a big hug.

    My review… Unlike my friend, who only heard of Scientology as the kooky sci-fi religion that Tom Cruise is into, I know all the stories of the people interviewed in the movie. I read Lawrence Wright’s book, twice. I feel this documentary is brilliant in the way Gibney put together the info and the interviews. He selected smartly of what to present from the book. In the first few minutes there were shots of the e-meter, and I thought “Oh boy, how is he going to explain it and how is this going to fly?” (Being the ex member of a crazy cult, I question EVERYTHING). The 8 exes interviewed came across as the intelligent people they are. I cannot express in words how much I appreciate that particular aspect of the movie.

    I am just an ordinary person who was a member of a cult. Like the 8 people in the movie, I am also resiliant.

    I need to watch Going Clear again.

  • ProudSP

    I love a happy ending!!!!!!!!

  • Douglas D. Douglas

    I feel so old. I remember when 500 comments in a day was notable. We are at 1500 and it’s only afternoon in the west…!

    • Rottulf

      The wind is turning my friend

      • outraged

        And so is the tide.

        • Rottulf

          Yep, u r right

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      It was certainly a lot easier to be a lurker in those days–could zip through the comments in no time!

    • Zer0

      I remember when 50 was a great day:) Seems like a long time ago, but things have moved much faster than I expected

  • Silence of the Clams

    worth re-posting

  • Bryce Byerley
  • nottrue
    • SNAFU

      MST3K “TV’s Frank” weighs in with a nice quip, sweet!

      • A bird in the chimney

        He’s been on a roll with several Scientology tweets.

        • SNAFU

          Wow, you weren’t kidding – he’s been tearing them a new one!

          “If MST3K ever does a live riff of Battlefield Earth in Indiana, I guess we won’t be served at any Scientology-owned bakeries.”

          Go Frank!

          https://twitter.com/FrankConniff

  • Mark Foster

    Tony O: PUTTING THE “DOPE” IN DOPESAUCE! Thanks for your relentless, focused journalism. Thanks to all lurkers, commenters, doubters, OSA-slaves, readers…and BT’s. Amen…and pass the grits, please, Nola.
    Oh yeah… and to y’all newly-free-from-the-cult-mind-fuck folks: LIFE GETS BETTER AND BETTER! SAVOR EVERY FUCKING MOMENT AND GET BUSY WAKING UP AND HEALING! Cheers 🙂

    • generic sock

      Damn, you’re fired up. Good to see.

    • outraged

      Cheers!

      And to that FBI agent or IRS gal who wants to be famous and watched Going Clear last night on HBO,

      I am repeating Tony O’s comment from Huffpost Live.

      It is TIME!!!!!!!!!

      How long is David Miscavige going to be able to run this organization completely on his own, imprisoned his executives, amass billions of dollars, without there being some sort of consequence? They are in complete violation of their IRS agreement. The American people are all subsidizing this organization and what it is getting away with.

    • aegerprimo

      Missed you Mark!

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    I finally got home so I could hear the audio. I am absolutely shaking with anger and I have a major desire to throw up.

    Daniel, someday…you will wake up….and when you do….I feel so, so, SO sorry for you. Because looking in the mirror is going to be real hard. For a real long time.

    • generic sock

      Yes. Because he’s a weasel, and he’ll probably mistake his reflection for a rival weasel.

      • Bryce Byerley

        One thing about the church shows that it can turn good people to evil…but it also shows that leaving can turn evil to good. I never thought I would look on Marty Rathbun or Mike Rinder with respect…but once they were out of the bubble they admitted their wrongs and really made an effort to right them.

  • TinyTyrant
  • Silence of the Clams

    tom is on fire…

  • Michael Leonard Tilse

    Danny, the boy here, has his TR’s in. He is going straight for the end product, declaring her suppressive. No deviation. No excursions into reason or compassion.

    I don’t know Danny. But what I feel, what I know, is that he has amputated and cauterized his compassion, his bond with other human beings. I did that on the TRs. That, along with the horrific consequences he probably has suffered whenever he didn’t get his ‘product’ in the Sea Org post he is in, does the full excision of humanity.

    I remember that in order to pass the TRs, specifically TR-0 Bull Bait, I went through an internal process of cutting myself of from my emotions. Emotions are what trip you up in the TRs. Emotion, the reaction you have from feeling what your coach is feeling. If the coach is trying to get you to laugh, you want to laugh because you feel, you understand, you experience some mirror of what the coach is feeling.

    So you have to reach inside yourself and slice that mirror away. So you don’t accidentally laugh with the coach who is trying to break you up.

    And sadness. A good coach, when they are done with laughter and absurdity, will target sadness. Tell you sad stories. Describe the most pathetic loss. Pretend to feel themselves the sadness and grief. Cry. And if you still have inside you a sliver of compassion he will draw it out, trigger your own sympathetic sadness. And flunk you.

    So you cut that out too. Away goes the shared feeling of sadness.

    And strangely, I started to be proud. I didn’t think of it as being bad, to not feel laughter or feel grief. Instead I had this feeling I was more able. More powerful. I was able to stand up and stare into laughter and grief and not bend.

    And then the sense of horror. And the sensation of knowing, feeling another’s pain. Mental pain and even that unconscious response to seeing another be injured.

    To pass the TRs at the level of Danny, you have to sever all your human responses.

    Danny. Daniel. I’m sorry to have to tell you. They take a long time to grow back.

    • generic sock

      I think I flunked, because I am crying after reading that.

      • Michael Leonard Tilse

        Yea. I do too. Now. Have an excellent cry. It’s a good thing. It means you are not dead inside.

        • generic sock

          I got up to get a tissue and I stubbed my toe really hard. Now I’m crying even worse than before.

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            Ouch! Sorry.

      • Frodis73

        No shit. Very disturbing.

    • kemist

      I was like that, without feeling, at the deepest end of depression.

      It’s a terrible thing. It takes away all the color of life, and after a while you don’t even remember what it is you have lost, but you still long for it. I don’t understand how someone can do that to themselves on purpose.

      It doesn’t make you more able. It makes you so disabled you have trouble just being with healthy human beings.

      • splog

        “I don’t understand how someone can do that to themselves on purpose.”

        They don’t do it on purpose, and that’s the truth. They do it because they have come to believe it is proper to do those motions, but they don’t stop to reflect on what they are *really* doing. It’s sad, truly truly sad what this evil cult does to good honest people.

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        …and we forgot the taste of bread…

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX50M1Om9ms

    • villagedianne

      I have wondered if bull-baiting does even more than kill your emotions. I wonder if, by submitting to bull-baiting, you are tacitly saying “It’s all right to abuse me. I am making myself available for that.” Thereby training you to submit to abuse by the cult.

      • Annie Jomes

        I’ve had that thought too, that one of the reasons for bull-baiting is to weed out the people who won’t tolerate being treated so shabbily, even under the pretense that it’s training to help your communication skills (!)

  • Wogsy Wonka

    I just got home, and I AM STILL SO PISSED OFF ABOUT THIS! WTF????????? How many times have we run into some dumb ass kid in ethics telling us what to do with our lives?????? GET OUT LURKERS AND TAKE YOUR LIFE BACK!

    • splog

      Come on Wogsy, don’t hold back. Tell us how you really feel!

      • Wogsy Wonka

        i know i know. i’m sorry. i’m just so revolted…ugh. i’m so glad i broke up with my ex-boyfriend before he got sucked into this mess…

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Monkey recommends several deep, even breaths–in through the nose, out through the mouth, inhaling to the count of five, exhaling to the count of nine (old singing teacher trick for relaxation) for a couple of minutes… then consuming this mostly vodka bloody mary 🙂

      • Wogsy Wonka

        Awwwww. Thanks Bunker bestie. ((Hugs)) : )

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          Your welcome, anything to get my Bunker Bestie back into their calm and centered self 🙂 (and prepared for a great singing voice!)

          ETA: will get back to you on email, but very busy with helping organise Autism Awareness Day event here on Thursday, sorry

          • Wogsy Wonka

            …well thank you..on that note what would you like to hear? I could sing “Time to Say Goodbye by Sarah Brightman or “I Whip My hair back and Forth” by Willow Smith. I got a 3/12 octave range… I mean I could do this…: )

            • ScnMonkeyNuts

              Hahahaha–I might have to link to the blog for the event, it’ll be described a lot better than I could manage, I’ll try to take some photos. (Delay while Sarah Brightman is wiki’d!), don’t think I’d want to hear anything by the Smith kids (sorry), and you’d need a male singer as well for “Time to Say Goodbye” and I haven’t warmed up to sing tonight so I think you’re safe 🙂

            • Wogsy Wonka

              She was the original Christine Daae in Phantom of the Opera play composed by Andrew Lloyd Weber. She was one of Andrew Lloyd Webers wives as well. She inspired the play. I was jk. I have a 3 1/2 octave range but i can’t sing for crap.

              edited

            • ScnMonkeyNuts

              🙂

            • Wogsy Wonka

              ok I’m in between comments right now and literally laughing my ass off right now. So I’m for the first time in history leaving the Bunker before you do. Gotta get this Biology lab done. XoXo. ttyl.

            • ScnMonkeyNuts

              XoXo laters 🙂

            • MaxSpaceman

              so perhaps, Wogsy W, you could post a link to a youTube post of your singing something? so we might enjoy a listen ?

            • Wogsy Wonka

              haha! Oh dear no. Look at my comment to SMN (2 comments down)

            • MaxSpaceman

              I saw it before I posted mine. 3 1/2 octaves – that would be lovey to hear. You record any?

            • Wogsy Wonka

              No I don’t record at all. 3 1/2 octaves is nothing to brag about though.

            • MaxSpaceman

              Did you find a way to catch the film? without swimming to another continent? 🙂

            • Wogsy Wonka

              lolol. MS that poster was not me!!

            • MaxSpaceman

              oi- semi senior moment ;-/

            • ScnMonkeyNuts

              ’Twas I that was whingeing about my inability to view, but was a naughty Monkey, and used one of those slightly less than reputable ‘streaming’ thingies last night, which just made me want to buy it on DVD when released on my side of the pond–so I could view it on a full sized TV… without all the glitching and freezing! (*said very sotto voce* as that kind of behaviour is rightly frowned upon here in The Bunker)

            • MaxSpaceman

              you good peeps, Monkey ~

            • Wogsy Wonka

              Oh yes! ok ok. I see what you did there. joke haha.sorry yes. A senior moment my bad lolol. I still think your a meanie. : )

            • MaxSpaceman

              I thought the “swim” joke was for you, Wogsy 🙂

          • Wogsy Wonka

            You don’t ever have to worry about that. Plus I wanna hear all about it, so I do expect about 10 pages…i’m just sayin…

            jk…jokes…snarks : )

  • new post up http://scientologybollocks.blogspot.co.uk

    FTR my daily figures yesterday were the highest I ever had… almost double the previous best and it was an advance post I made as I was away at my parents this weekend

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack
    • Peggy oh!

      I wish the networks would have released materials to Gibney. I was so pleased to see Hohn Hockenberry again, and would have loved to see more of his interview…

      • splog

        Gibney relied heavily on materials supplied by CoS itself, and I reckon it’s all the more powerful for it. the networks did Alex a favour

        • Peggy oh!

          Probably true, but it wish there was a web site with all the stuff left on the cutting room floor!

    • beauty for ashes

      Nope, got lots of static and a message that said, ” No you cannot watch this it is entheta! Don’t you care about your eternity?” jk That would be a funny trick to play though!

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        You had me going.

  • Chub Rub

    I’m just an outside observer. I recall thinking about looking into the “dianetics” thing in the late 70’s, early 80’s…but decided on some Dale Carnegie courses instead….thank God. I have been following the website “Operation Clambake” for over 10 years now and the insane stories they share. And then this piece….just wow. I cannot believe how brave this Sylvia woman is/was AND how her husband automatically had her back. That is love. That is a beautiful marriage. And together, they saved their beautiful family. I love a happy ending. In this age of information and the internet, I hope we get to hear a lot more of these. You do not have to be in this cult to help mankind. There are so many options to choose from. Great work!

  • Wogsy Wonka

    Has anyone seen Intergalactic Walrus??? I haven’t seen him or her for a few days. Hope he or she is okay? I love his or her posts…

    • MaxSpaceman

      now that you mention it, yeah- a.w.o.l.
      the big thing.

  • sizzle8

    Any ideas what the viewer count was for last night?

  • nottrue
    • Ella Raitch

      Tom Cruise has missed the boat – Jason Beghe has the starring role as the tough guy saviour

      • MaxSpaceman

        That’s beyond indisputable, yes.

      • Judith Sylvester

        That’s an interesting way of putting it, and I think it’s true. Watching Cruise, it’s obvious that he viewed himself as soon to be at the helm. He missed the boat. The dimwit.

    • aegerprimo

      My copy of Rolling Stone came in the mail today, and my husband had it opened to the page with article when I got home from work .

      • MaxSpaceman

        good hubby!

        hubby deserve reward 🙂

        • aegerprimo

          Already given! But hey, I will probably give an extra bonus award tomorrow.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Everybody’s favourite spokesliar, Karin Puow, was questioned on $ci’s counter-offensive of purchased Tweets that began last night:

    “We had an all-time high interest in Scientology during the airing of the HBO show,” said Karin Pouw, a rep for the Church of Scientology. “Over 50,000 people came to our website before we even issued a tweet. As there were so many people curious and interested, we decided to spread the word.”

    Amazingly, astonishingly, there may be a modicum of truth in what she said.
    Don’t worry, she’ll be feeling her usual self soon.
    They HAVE had more traffic – probably to their smear vids.
    How positive that will be for them is, however, open to interpretation.

    Here are screen-grabs of $cientology.org’s traffic stats.
    Weds. 25th, before D-Day
    Immediately after the movie , last night
    and at 7:06 pm EST today

    all followed by the traffic sources –
    notice that Going Clear was a HUGE hit in India.

    • Tory Christman

      OMG PUKE! I have said this for some time: I bet C of $ will, rather than take responsibility for what
      has been shown and talked about in the Documentary: “Going Clear, Scientology & The Prison of
      Belief”, they will begin to pitch how great things are, how much they are expanding, etc. The Beat Goes
      On. The more you YELL “greatness”, $cientologists, after people SEE and HEAR this documentary, the more you sound like an abusive husband YELLING about how much he loves his beaten up wife.
      Don’t like it? Then CHANGE IT. Love to all here 🙂 Tory/Magoo

    • generic sock

      Rebecca Black – Friday has over 77 million views on Youtube, and that is well AFTER it was deleted and re-posted with a fresh view count. It must be a hit, right?

      People go to Scientology dot org because they want to learn more about what this creepy thing is. That is true. But they go there expecting to be weirded out, and they go there expecting a good laugh. They don’t go there to learn more because they’re legitimately intrigued to the point of enrollment. They go there to make fun of you, Scientology.

      But please, do enjoy the swell. Pretend like it’s good for you. Just remember where the swell came from: a very popular documentary that took a great big shit all over you. Congrats.

    • Eileen

      The demographics show “no college” and “some college” as the biggest groups, by far. Also most of the locations, by far, were from school locations. Sounds like a lot of classes were assigned watching the documentary and told to go to the scio site. Critical thinking exercise. I often have students visit sites via the college access in order to protect their privacy.

      • Ella Raitch

        Or simply a lot of kids having a laugh, daring each other to go to the Scientology site? Who knows?

        • George Layton

          or they are lying.

          • splog

            I’m going with “we bought the truth we want to tell” courtesy of a polite Indian gentleman with many peons and a mouse each

          • Ella Raitch

            Hmmm, let me think about that. I’ll vote C thanks George – Scientology is lying.

      • Kristin Rawls

        I went to their site to balk at the hamfisted awfulness of their propaganda videos. But I used a proxy server and hoped they would not get my real IP address.

    • TinyTyrant

      Apparently, Karin believes that any publicity is good publicity. I’ve always thought the term “tool” to describe someone was a male gender specific term. I stand corrected….

  • Observer

    The first thing Mr. Observer said when he got home from work was, “For some reason I’ve been thinking about that documentary all day.”

    • Bury_The_Nuts

      Just what a really good documentary should do to a person.
      That is great. Mr. Nuts is going to watch it with me this evening. He actually seems kind of jazzed.

      • Ella Raitch

        Mr Raitch and I will watch this evening too (my first time)

    • Menna

      Stays with you, these malignant deeds are incomprehensible to normal people. They keep inserting themselves into my thoughts. especially Sara’s description of the desperate attempt to imprint the memory of the smell of her daughter’ hair! God it’s so wrenching.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        “Sara’s description of the desperate attempt to imprint the memory of the smell of her daughter’ hair!”

        That stuck to me like glue as well.

    • Anonymookme

      That’s funny. Mr. Anonymookme watched it with me last night. He had never even heard of Scientology prior, and to my absolute annoyance, kept misprouncing it as “sciencology” throughout the entire airing.
      At the end of the documentary, he said, “thank god the cult we were born into (catholic) at least does some good for people. pissed me off initially, but he’s right. When I got home from work today, Mr. Anonymookme said, “I cannot stop thinking about those ScienCOLOGY freaks”.

  • Jonathan Cummings

    Watching the documentary for the 2nd time (DVR) is even more emotional when not trying to participate in the live blog. Tick Tock

  • Violet

    So sad that she actually has to sound defensive and apologetic to this ass listing her “transgressions.” Kudos to her for what she said though, except for applauding her friends’ “wins”.

    • Menna

      I doubt that twit even heard what she was saying. Self-righteous zombie fuck.

      • Violet

        True. I do love how the woman kinds of finds her anger in the last few moments, and really starts letting him have it.

  • Everyone should sign this petition on WeThePeople to encourage the IRS to reevaluate Scientology’s 503(c)(3)
    classification. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/revoke-scientologys-tax-exempt-status

  • Zer0

    What blows me away is the number of the general public (not Bunkerites) who watched Going Clear last night… and had nightmares about Scientology! Now that is effective film making.

    • Rasha

      When Truth=Nightmares, you know it’s probably Scientology.

    • truth will set u free

      oMy first nightmare about Scientology was I guess after I really went down the rabbit hole on Tony’s site over a year ago (or more) after following many of the Bunkerites links to stories. A over vivid,horrific dream about being trapped in a huge empty building with nowhere to hide.

      • Zer0

        Sorry about the scare! But you landed here, safely, for better, and the more the merrier!

  • nottrue
    • TinyTyrant

      Sign this petition! Strike while the iron, and the media, are hot!

  • Nightshade09

    One of the things I read in the blogs of ex-Scientologists and forums is the discussion of how hard it is for ex members; especially lifers (those born into it) how hard it is to transition back into society after leaving this destructive cult.

    In the case of lifers they seem not to have the job skills, financial recourses and are somewhat retarded in their social skills to full integrate back into society once out. An such considerations often play a part in their deciding to “blow” entirely.

    My question is this. Are there any programs, therapy and or groups to help out there for ex-members help them in the transition. If not maybe its time for caring people on the outside to put together such a network and find away to get that news to the people still on the inside and deciding to blow.

    Just some thoughts.

  • Tory Christman

    Yay Sylvia! This is a m a z i n g to actually hear this awfulness in full. You say:
    “— Watching Going Clear author Lawrence Wright being interviewed on television.

    — Watching actress and former Scientologist Leah Remini perform on Dancing with the Stars.

    — Having phone conversations with actor Jason Beghe.

    — Sending emails to former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder.

    — And commenting on the photos of former Scientologists on Facebook.”

    The fact is, of course you are labeled an SP. “How does that work”? THEY DO NOT CARE.
    He has his orders. He is following what the order says. That’s why it truly sounds NUTZ.
    I never, ever even talked or read ANYTHING while still “in”.
    I quit an abusive, secret group in Scientology, once I found out what they were *really* trying
    to do: Stop Free Speech on the Net! (Which in truth, violates “The Tech” so once I learned that,
    I quit as it was actually OUT KSW!)
    I never got *a* comm ev, nothing. I spoke with ONE critic on-line, Andreas Heldal-Lund (Xenu.net)

    From that, I woke up, and escaped out.
    From that, they chased me across the country.
    The TAMPA POLICE got me out of the Tampa Airport, with OSA there.
    Thankfully my new friends, 3 “SPs” were there to help me.
    They declared me “SP”.
    I lost ALL Of my 30 year friends and
    My husband of 27 years. BOOM. GONE.
    As Andreas had asked me, when I said “Andreas, if I leave—I’ll lose all of my 30 year friends,
    and my husband of 27 years: I don’t know if my soul can take it”.
    He replied: “What kind of friends could those be IF they’re going to leave you because you changed your mind?”

    It is the same for you, Sylvia, and every person who may be lurking.
    CONGRATULATIONS on finally getting free from that awful TRAP.
    As awful as it is, life just gets better and better the more you are out.

    Blessings and Love to you 🙂
    Tory/Magoo (“in” for 30 years, escaped out in 2000….free at last!)
    Check out my YouTube site (ToryMagoo44)
    If you want to talk with another who knows what you’re going through,
    give me a call: (818) 588-3044 🙂

    • Wogsy Wonka

      You are making me tear up Tory. Lots of Hugs and Love to you.

      • Tory Christman

        Thank you, WW 🙂 I appreciate that!

    • Narapoid

      Tory baby, I fell into this rabbit hole after I had been out of the cult for decades and googled it in 2003…. What a computer burning, compulsive obsession it became. Your videos were instrumental in my finding my way through all of the out of sequence articles, videos and ultimately this blog.

      Your voice is the first I remember. Rock on you power flower, and may blessings find their way to you!

      • Tory Christman

        Thank you Narapoid!! How cool is that? 🙂 I’m so, sooooooooooo happy I was
        able to help, even in a small way. Someone just called me who used to be “in”.
        He was going on and on about how he wouldn’t waste his time with Scientology
        and “All that bullshit”.

        I mentioned to him that *I* got into Scientology to help people.
        I was never really able to while “in”.
        However, since I escaped out and began speaking out—I’ve helped far more than
        I ever guessed I could…and that, for me, out weighs any “BS” is spades.
        Thank you and for your kind blessings, too. To you, too! 🙂

    • eloise

      Tory, I’ve never laid eyes on you and yet…you are my friend. I’m sorry you lost so many people who were supposed to care for you. You are so very brave and a really amazing person to reach out to others who are in fear of that same loss. All best wishes.

      • Tory Christman

        Thank you, eloise…that means SO much to me! I heard Marty recently on a talk show
        say “We can’t have any friends” and he started to cry”. I know how that feels, even though
        I am not “Public Enemy #1” as he says he is.

        However, I plugged into the on-line community from day ONE of being out. Many were “critics” (People never “in”). I fell in love with a vast
        majority of my new friends. I adore you all. I am alive because of SO many people helping me.
        I thank you all, daily. 🙂

    • generic sock

      Has Andreas ever been angry? Every video I’ve ever seen him in, he’s always calm like a rock. Just Chillin. So was he bitten by some mutated species, or was it a military experiment that made him a superhero?

      • Tory Christman

        Andreas IS one of THE calmest, kindest, most helpful and loving people I have ever
        had the joy of knowing. He’s fabulous at debating, he knows what is true for him, and he’s
        willing to discuss it with anyone, anytime, and learn, too. He constantly helps people. He calls
        himself an Atheist….but he does more than any “Christian” or religious person I’ve ever known
        does to help his community and others. Yup—I guess that must be it: He was bitten by the super hero bug. 🙂 (He’s also very, very humble, too) A fan? YUP—and a friend for life. 🙂

        • Bury_The_Nuts

          And he is damn cute, too.

          Just sayin.

          • generic sock

            Check your email real quick? I sent you a recipe for waterproof scones. They’re awful, but you can eat them underwater.

            • Tory Christman

              Did you send it to ToryMagoo44? It won’t get to me, sorry. (There are 52,000 PMs there…it’s too much for one person to answer). “Waterproof scones” If you’re serious,
              I’ll pass. If not….PM me on FB. 🙂

            • generic sock

              Sorry, I was talking about an email to Bury_The_Nuts. Just had a quick question for her, because I know she is very wise, but I also know she has never figured out how to eat scones underwater. It’s a project I’m working on. I will email you the current recipe if you want.

          • Tory Christman

            Yup—and happily I can announce (as he has) that he’s now officially taken! 🙂

            • Wogsy Wonka

              Tory find me someone in the 27 to 35 year age range. Tall preferably blue/gray eyes. I hope your guy friends like average looking women. : )

            • Tory Christman

              Since when did *I* become a Find someone service? Sorry, check the Net…or join
              a Volunteer group you believe in. (That’s actually a great way to meet, get to know,
              and possibly find s/one you like). Good luck 🙂

            • Wogsy Wonka

              lol Tory. it was a joke.

            • Bury_The_Nuts

              I know. I saw that! Congrats to him big time.

    • George Layton

      It’s so frightening that, when trying to step people out of hubbard’s cloud of chaos, that it is necessary to use the concepts of “the world according to hubbard” to break the mental chains leashing these folks to that world they are made to live in.

      • Tory Christman

        What exactly are you speaking of, George?

        • George Layton

          I’m talking about having to break the bubble from the inside. Some of these people won’t see reason from something that it not in scientology. When your post said “(Which in truth, violates “The Tech” so once I learned that, I quit as it was actually OUT KSW!)” I felt that for some of those hard believers that was the way to break through past that wall of belief that scientology creates in a person. Showing the fallibility of scientology by pointing out the contradictions in the teachings.

          • Tory Christman

            Thank you, George. I think that’s the 1st time I even mentioned that…but that is exactly why. For actually many, it IS the contradictions just like that which help them wake
            up and LOOK. 🙂 It sure was for me! Once I SAW that they were using these phony accounts I was opening up to STOP FREE SPEECH, here was my 1st thought:
            *I* did NOT get into Scientology to do THIS”. PERIOD.

            • Tory Christman

              I escaped out shortly after that realization.

    • TinyTyrant

      Tory, thanks for your post. I love your videos and I love your posts! I think I saw you once at the airport and I’m kicking myself I didn’t say, “Hi”. Anyway, great post.

      • Tory Christman

        Hey Tiny Tyrant 🙂 Well….come say “hi” if we run into each other, again 🙂
        If you’re in the LA area…let’s get together!

  • edge

    “No. My actions are fine. Anybody outside this room – in the
    real world – would have read that and gone “What? You commented on someone’s
    Facebook post?””

    I loved that. Commenting on someone’s facebook page, appearing in someone’s facebook photo. Complaining about the price of a set of books from the 1950s? These are crimes? In the real world – I’m glad she used that phrase – these are not crimes at all. What else is a crime? Not clapping enthusiastically enough for David Miscavige a la North Korea? And to continue the ‘crime’ analogy for a moment the parishioner pays the church for the sec-check. So imagine that. You’re paying the prosecutor to prosecute you. And what gets you out of trouble? Why, paying the prosecutor more! Make a big donation! This whole ethics thing is f***ing bullsh*t.
    Sylvia, bravo for standing up for yourself and your family. Tim, as well, for keeping your family together. LOVED that you threw out the books! 🙂
    And COS, I can comment for days about how full of sh*t you are. Real justice is done in an official building, in writing. You pull this garbage in a non-descript building in Clearwater, and Sylvia can’t even see the Knowledge Reports written against her or her declare in writing?? A verbal declare by some young punk? That’s just slimey. End of rant.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Before tonight’s 2nd HBO showing of “Going Clear,” I linked to this. Marty Rathbun, interviewed by Ben Shapiro, Vice Meets. A very illuminating interview. Looks like it was recorded recently during one of the recent snowy days in New York. Excellent interview. http://www.vice.com/video/talking-to-marty-rathbun-former-senior-executive-of-the-church-of-scientology-665

    • bromo

      Good interview. Thanks for the link, Max.

  • outraged

    What Tim did is amazing too.

    You are both blessed.
    You left, you rebuilt, you are alive and well.
    You saved your kids lives in ways that you can only begin to understand.
    Take heed everyone reading who is still in!!!

    Listen to Tim:

    “I made the decision that my wife was more important to me than a disconnection order on a piece of paper. I thought about the repercussions for our kids, too, and would I be in a position that I’d have to disconnect from one or more of them. No, my future was more important with my family than with a church organization,” he says.

  • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

    If “Daniel” ever blows, I think that he might do well working for Comcast customer service.

    • MaxSpaceman

      Sir, lolol funny. A smile to you and an Up Up and Away ~

    • MoX, Mother of Xenu

      Speaking of another for-profit that specializes in making you pay them for the pleasure of abusing you.

  • Cece

    Wow, wow, wow. Sylvia and Tim. I really absorbed this. Good for the work getting the recording and bringing this insanity above boards. Some day I will see my kids again ’cause of stuff like this. Can not be argued with. I wished I had the mind to record it when 2 of my kids disconnected but I was shattered. You are doing great! So wonderful good news to see a family sticking together. I hope your son is still doing well on his music career. Love and hugs to all.

    • bromo

      Sending you a cyber hug just because, Cece. ((()))

  • aegerprimo

    Bustle is VERY ABUNDANT with Co$ bad press over the past couple of days in the wake of the Going Clear documentary debut on HBO. Here is the list….

    Scientology’s “Freedom Media Ethics” Twitter Account Shows How Scared They Are Of ‘Going Clear’
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72703-scientologys-freedom-media-ethics-twitter-account-shows-how-scared-they-are-of-going-clear

    Paul Haggis’ Scientology Letter From 2009 Says A Lot — And You Didn’t See All Of It In ‘Going Clear’
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72535-paul-haggis-scientology-letter-from-2009-says-a-lot-and-you-didnt-see-all-of

    John Travolta Videos Of Him Talking About Scientology Are An Essential Supplement To ‘Going Clear’
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72054-john-travolta-videos-of-him-talking-about-scientology-are-an-essential-supplement-to-going-clear

    What Happens When You Leave Scientology? Here’s What We Know From Those Who Left
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72460-what-happens-when-you-leave-scientology-heres-what-we-know-from-those-who-left

    The Book That ‘Going Clear,’ The Scientology Documentary, Is Based On — And Its Most Shocking Allegations
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72589-the-book-that-going-clear-the-scientology-documentary-is-based-on-and-its-most-shocking

    4 David Miscavige Videos That Offer A Rare Look At Scientology’s Enigmatic Leader
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72623-4-david-miscavige-videos-that-offer-a-rare-look-at-scientologys-enigmatic-leader

    Tom Cruise Scientology Interview From ‘Going Clear’ In Full, Because You’re Probably Going To Want To See The Entire Thing — VIDEO
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72074-tom-cruise-scientology-interview-from-going-clear-in-full-because-youre-probably-going-to-want-to

    This David Miscavige Interview Is Most Of What We Know About The Enigmatic Leader — VIDEO
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72403-this-david-miscavige-interview-is-most-of-what-we-know-about-the-enigmatic-leader-video

    Where Is Shelly Miscavige, Wife Of Scientology Leader David Miscavige? She Hasn’t Been Seen In 7 Years
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72106-where-is-shelly-miscavige-wife-of-scientology-leader-david-miscavige-she-hasnt-been-seen-in-7

    HBO Scientology Documentary ‘Going Clear’ Makes Some Serious Allegations Against The Church, But It Wouldn’t Be The Only Church Accused of Violating Human Rights
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72112-hbo-scientology-documentary-going-clear-makes-some-serious-allegations-against-the-church-but-it-wouldnt-be

    John Travolta’s Friend Spanky Speaks Out In ‘Going Clear’ & Sheds Light On The Church & Travolta Being “Trapped”
    http://www.bustle.com/articles/72759-john-travoltas-friend-spanky-speaks-out-in-going-clear-sheds-light-on-the-church

    • Narapoid

      Volcanoes of entheta will be erupting for some time yet. Come get some bustle.com! (Tony was first though)

  • Sid

    Oh yeah, this will bother HBO. I’m sure it will have a huge impact on their bottom line. (F5)

    While on the phone the cable provider said “Bobby who?”

    • HTC

      What a fucking idiot.

    • visitor

      Who is Bodhi Elfman? If it wasn’t for the Bunker, I never would have heard of him.

      (With a name like elf man, is he related to miscavige?)

      • Observer

        He’s Jenna Elfman’s husband, Danny Elfman’s nephew. (Danny is *not* a Scientologist.)

        • visitor

          Thanks, Obs. Actually I already knew that, I just thought it was funny because I only knew him as somebody’s husband..

          I really had never heard of him, which is why I so highly esteem the opinions of B-list actors.

          I’ve never seen any of these but, his film credits sure are cool:
          “Almost Famous” – (I rest my case)
          “Enemy of the State” – (must be about SPs)
          “The Shrink Is In” – (huh?)

          and my favorite…

          “Slappy and the Stinkers” (biography of DM??)

          • sugarplumfairy

            Almost Famous was a great film.. Bodhi only made the director’s cut, tho..

        • Miss Tia

          thank FUCK Danny isn’t cuz i love oingo boingo!! insanity is the theme song around here most days!

          • Kitz

            Funny enough… right now as I got to this, “Dead Man’s Party” started playing on my Pandora….

      • generic sock

        I too had no idea who Bodhi Elfman was until I started reading here. I knew Jenna as Dharma from the worst syndicated sitcom in history, and I had that opinion long before I even knew she was a Scientologist. That show was so bad. Just so bad.

      • Ella Raitch

        He had a bit henchman role in Enemy of the State

    • Observer

      Hahaha! Poor Bodhi thinks he’s wearing big boy britches!

    • good you took a screen grab… it looks like he’s removed it… there is this one though

      pic

      • Sid

        I saw that one. I was going to post this, “And what if someone made a documentary about Nazis and interviewed only Jews who had escaped concentration camps? Would you go hunting Nazis afterwards?”

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          OMG Sid, great tweet!!

          • Sid

            I don’t Tweet so was unable to throw this out there. Anyone else is welcome to it if they are able to master the Twitter thing.

        • yeah, I had posted the pic -you don’t know unless you refresh of course)…. can you confirm that you saw this comment in his actual twitter feed or is this a 3rd part yscreen grab ?

          • Sid

            I saw it on Facebook.

            • so there’s a chance it’s a shoop… shame…. actually, just counted and it’s a couple of letters over 140 so it’s a fake…. shame

            • Sid

              No, it’s real. See above.

            • … thought it was a tweet… d’oh!

            • Sid

              Facebook.

            • Douglas D. Douglas

              I counted exactly 140.

          • Sid

            Here it is. (F5)

            • excellent…. will tweet it to a few media outlets

            • … like this for example

              pic

      • giggler

        Shit for brains

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        Uh yeah, because Jews who leave their religion become Nazis. Makes perfect sense… if you’re a Scientologist.

      • Miss Tia

        the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead…..

      • George Layton

        No but a few more million people are keeping their eye on yew now Bodhi.

    • MoX, Mother of Xenu

      He’s just exercising his religious ritual of disconnecting from known suppressives and sources of entheta.

      I’m just wondering when he’ll realize that he’ll need to do the same with Twitter, the Internet, the rest of the entertainment industry ….

    • giggler

      what a tosser

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      O. M. G!

      Big Being Bodhi Elfman just cancelled HBO!!!

      That must mean that HBO is GONE, as Big Beings have amazing Supah Powahs over MEST!

      AmIRight? AmIRight? AmIRight?

      • Miss Tia

        Jenna’s out front of HBO headquarters screaming “DO YOU RAPE BABIES?!”

      • I hope HBO will offer him A to E steps, in case he will change his mind.

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          Hahahaha–POW! Perfect Dodo 🙂

        • Sid

          If he leaves HBO he has to agree to never watch TV again. And HBO will sneak into his parent’s house and break all of their DVDs.

    • Miss Tia

      uh huh…..they promoted SCIENTOLOGY’S bullying, intolerance and bigotry!! can’t have the public knowing about that til they’re bankrupt and down to one kidney!

      he’s douche-lite next to cardone…

    • madame duran

      He cancels THE DAY AFTER the doc airs? How is that a brave, bold choice? Did he even WATCH it before making his decision? After last night’s “Going Clear” debut on cable TV, only a blind moron would think that siding with a greedy, manipulative, insane CULT is preferable over a cultural giant serving thought-provoking documentaries. He’s just preaching to the clam choir. Everyone else will write him off as a certifiable loon. Kiss whatever career you have GOODBYE, you idiot. You just made it easier for the public to add your name to the Hollywood list of Celebrities Worthy of Oblivion.

      • Didn’t he announced it already like two weeks ago?!

    • sugarplumfairy

      At least he took his head out of his butt long enough to realize that a documéntary aired.. My Italian gram would say about him: “idioto..”

    • D.Y.G.

      Stupid motherfucker is gonna miss Game of Thrones, Season 5.

    • sugarplumfairy

      I was just about to respond to his tweet and tell him thank you for reminding me to sign up for HBO cause I sure don’t want to miss Going Clear.. And it looks to me like he just tweeted to himself “I love you..” Seriously?

      • generic sock

        He tweeted it out to the public. The public promptly responded, “Thanks, but who the hell are you?”

        • sugarplumfairy

          Lol.. You are en fuego tonight..

        • Lynn Fountain Campbell
    • George Layton

      “My self determinism, dictated by my church, has caused me to cancel HBO because that’s really the way I feel.

    • Zer0

      {Lots of luck with your social activism, Mr. Elfman. I’m sure it will catch on}

    • Ella Raitch

      Someone ask if he wants tweets of GOT highlights

  • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

    Thanks all for your supportive comments. It’s been seven months since my declare. We’re all doing great. I have to say I feel more like myself than I have in decades. You really have no idea how controlled you are while you’re ‘in’. My heart goes out to those still under the influence (to any degree) of that organization. I hope and pray, for the families that didn’t get out in one piece, that soon they will all be whole again. Take care and keep up the good fight!!

    • Rasha

      GIGANTIC HUGZ!!!!!

    • Sid

      Thanks so much for providing this recording today Sylvia. Together somehow we’ll get all the families out.

    • edge

      Thank you for sharing your story with us. You and your family are amazing!

    • bromo

      Thank you for sharing your story. My wish is that it brings hope to others. May a fair wind always be at your back as you and your family continue life’s journey.

    • George Layton

      {Dave called and wants his recording back, oh and you are going to the RPF next time you come by to visit him.}

    • generic sock

      If you were a popsicle, you’d be a bomb pop.

      • Mymy88

        Uh huh, she would. A bomb pop… it has been a while. My neighborhood ice-cream man should start making his daily rounds soon, yay! (F5)

    • giggler

      Such a relief you and your whole family got out, thank you for sharing your story, best wishes for the future

    • nottrue

      You are a true Hero

    • Observer

      So glad you got out with your family intact. I wish you all the best.

    • Love to you and yours, Sylvia!

    • Did your son find another band?

      • Douglas D. Douglas

        You and me, Nat. The Nosy Parkers…!

      • Sid

        I’ve heard them play. They’re very good.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Sylvia, i was stunned by your story, very upset by how you wee treated, and so proud of Tim – love triumphs! Blessings to you and your family in your new life in Arizona!

    • A bird in the chimney

      And thanks to you for sharing your story and documenting this horrible practice. I’m so happy for you and your family! You all take care too, and be well. Be great!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      All best wishes to you and your family.

      I am curious– did your son find another band? (You don’t have to answer if this is too nosy. For your son…!)

      • Sylvia Wagner DeWall

        All good with the band. 🙂

        • Douglas D. Douglas

          Thanks! Good to know.

    • Wogsy Wonka

      Big Hugs and lots of love to you Sylvia!!

    • Missionary Kid

      I’m certainly glad you’re here and have chosen to share your story with us.

      It sometimes takes a while once one has left a controlling situation to realize fully just how much ones life was controlled. Enjoy every minute that you have. It’s true FREEDOM!

    • aegerprimo

      ♥ HUG ♥ Thank you for sharing your story Sylvia, and so happy that you and your family GOT OUT!

    • D.Y.G.

      (F5)…

    • Violet

      The last couple of minutes, I could feel more of your courage kicking in, and you really let him have it about disconnection. Well done!!!

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Thank you for sharing this with The Bunker (and having the nous to record the robotic little creep) and being able to get your whole family out. Big Hugs.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      EP: Finding yourself again. Bravo!

    • Always Amazed

      Welcome home!

    • Ella Raitch

      Well done you!Your story doesn’t mention if you have left anyone behind but indoubtedly, if not family, there are friends still in whom you care about deeply. Thank you for your courage – your example will help others find the way. Cute hubby too (did I say that out loud?)

    • Pepper

      Happy to hear it Sylvia! Best wishes to you and your family too.

    • Dean Houser

      I am very glad to hear that you’re doing great, Syl. I am really sorry that you had to go through this.

  • HTC

    Finally finished watching tonight (too much pre celebration last night), how could anyone in their right mind think that these people were “bullies”? I thought all the subjects were overly compassionate and self degrading. Very moving indeed.

  • MaxSpaceman

    Aly Weisman. 30 March 2015. Business Insider. http://www.businessinsider.com/paul-haggis-sent-leah-remini-letter-after-she-left-scientology-2015-3

    Paul Haggis to Leah Remini back when Leah was more newly out:

    I can’t express how much I admire Leah. Her parents, family and close friends were almost all Scientologists; the stakes for her were so much higher than for me. Her decision to leave was so much braver…

    I finally called Leah during the last week of July. Her answering service didn’t recognize my number, so it took a while to get through. It was good to hear her voice and great to hear her laugh — though it was easy to tell she had been terribly hurt and shaken by the events of the last weeks. That said, Leah is an incredibly strong woman and will get through this with the help of her family and her true friends. She is kind and generous and loyal; she has always cared more about others than herself. She barely knew me, and yet she fought for me and my family, a battle she had to know in her gut she was never going to win. That takes an enormous amount of integrity and compassion. I will leave it to you to decide if the same can be said of Scientology’s executives and Leah’s many former friends — especially those Scientologists who are watching her be smeared now and are choosing to stay silent.

    I will forever be grateful to her.

  • Bob Gravlin

    Tim Sir you are a man of integrity. And because you acted rightly your wife and children will call you blessed if they haven’t already. Your strong choice for what is good is an inspiration to me. Thanks for sharing that Sylvia!

    • MoX, Mother of Xenu

      “The fact of the matter is, this is the leader of this church that has been a long-standing member of the community. They are involved in positive work–they have a lot of members.”

      Sorry for that sound you just heard … involuntary hairball …

      • “I believe that L. Ron Hubbard was a manipulative [and] dishonest [man],” Council member Ruth Galanter said in an interview after the vote. “He’s a cult leader. We don’t name streets after cult leaders.”

  • At 1:01:45 in Going Clear, what’s with those squirts of stream from one of the windows of the Super Power Building?

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      I wondered what I was seeing there, too.

      • Narapoid

        I haven’t seen it yet, but I am sure that the chult would say body thetans. Wait, they can’t say that either….

      • Miscavige having a meltdown?

        I suppose it would be possible to work out which floor it was, and check it against the plans to see what’s in that area.

    • SNAFU

      For Clearwater’s sake I hope it’s not Kirstie Alley on some new flatulence rundown.

    • Juicer77

      Was wondering that, too.

    • L. Wrong Hubturd

      Fresh batch of donuts in the oilness table?

    • Eileen

      I also wondered about that.

  • Sally Atwater

    Yeah please sign me up for a religion where everyone is there to spy on you, tell on you and flat out lie to your face. Wasn’t too long ago that one of their spokespeople went on National TV saying that there was no such thing as disconnection in their religion. Bold faced liars. So done with them. Our government needs to wake up and stop giving them tax exemption.

  • bromo

    Just talked to my daughter who watched Going Clear last night. Even after all I had told her about scientology she really had some wtf moments while watching. When she was a teen she had a huge crush on Tom Cruise and we watched Top Gun way too much LOL. I guess there was a Tom Cruise movie on afterward somewhere and her partner called to her that it was on because he knew about her “crush.” She told him she would never watch another Cruise movie after seeing Going Clear. I hope that the revelations made in the movie cause lots of never-ins to have the same reaction of disgust. Now if we can just get all of them to write their congressperson and senators to put pressure on the IRS we can have our own wins.

  • Magapo

    This is prof. This is much prof than most of “Getting Clear” documentary. Is the first time I had being presented real prof. I congratulate Sylvia and her husband. You are brave! ARC

  • Narapoid

    The secrets only they knew just a few weeks ago….

    • coonellie

      Love, love, love this picture! Full of life and hope and a future where those still trapped will be delivered.

  • Still_On_Your_Side

    In Going Clear, the point was made that if the FBI had raided the Hemet compound because of the RPF, those people who were locked in and being abused would insist they were there voluntarily. This became a moot point because the FBI backed off acting against the church after the Headley court ruling. Nonetheless it begs a very important question: why did the FBI not act against the church’s wide spread, organized violations of child labor laws? The law does not permit parents to “donate” their children to Scientology to work sweatshop hours in sweatshop conditions. Put simply there is no First Amendment religious exemption that permits a parent to endanger the health and welfare of their minor children by letting their church use them as slave labor. The same holds true for the church. The First Amendment does not protect a church from prosecution for subjecting children to sweatshop hours and conditions in violation of law.

    • bromo

      I want to upvote this more than once!

    • One Human

      ^^^THIS!!!^^^

    • Anonymous

      IIRC …the Headley’s losing their lawsuit where many of the same issues were in play was cited as greatly lowering the likelihood of a successful criminal prosecution of those issues subsequent to an FBI action…so they decided not to go ahead. Tony posted an alternate theory about a possible procedural error by one of the FBI agents that may have been the real reason for backing away from a raid / prosecution.

  • Free Minds, Free Hearts

    I keep forgetting to mention that I noticed in Going Clear, when little DM gave the speech in 1986 about the old man’s death, he said “this year AD 36.” Seriously? Are they counting from the inception of the cult? That is so sick. I had not noticed anyone comment on that aspect of the movie, but… I may have missed it in the flurry of comments.

    • Miss Tia

      he also had, it seemed to me, almost stage fright in some ways….(totally understandable….) but he was NOT comfortable speaking to the crowd at that time….

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        Yes, that was obvious – he was very nervous. I don’t think he realized he would successfully take over.

        • Miss Tia

          probably thinking “am i getting away with this?”

    • sugarplumfairy

      Self-important idiots..

    • Narapoid

      In this year AD 65, a giant fork was stuck in their ass…

      • Lynn Fountain Campbell

        Cannot stop laughing!

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      After Dianetics. The publication date of 1950. No one else really cares– so it’s a harmless delusion.

      • One Human

        Just more mindfuckery of the Orwellian trap.

  • phoebequeen

    I am a first time poster, loooong time reader of this blog. I know a lot about this dangerous cult and have just been disgusted that it still gets away with such horrible crimes. I do not get HBO, and will probably await it to go to Netflix. I have watched countless videos of first hand accounts on youtube. With that said, I clicked on a link below for vice.com interview with Marty Rathbun. It’s about 21 minutes long. At about 11:15 seconds, my computer made this loud roaring noise, screen froze and then went blank and started to then reboot itself. This laptop is only 2 1/2 months old. I kid you not. Now, I am not saying They , are responsible for this, but I find it pretty strange. Let me finish by saying, I never felt that I should comment here only because I feel like I am not worthy. I am amazed to read an article, then see in real time the person it’s about, come on and comment. It just reinforces the harshness and the real pain that so many have gone through. Thank you all for the comments and let’s hope that this starts some real change. And, hearing this audio was just chilling and sad.

    • Cupcakes for Breakfast

      Welcome phoebequeen! 🙂

    • bromo

      Welcome. phoebe. As another never in, your part about being not worthy rings a bell for me and I am sure for others. But I promise, the exes and everyone here are super nice and the water is fine so just jump on in. Just watch out for a couple of them though as they may spray you with a super soaker for laughs. 😉

      • phoebequeen

        Thanks. I ran a scan on computer just now. Never know. Is it wrong to feel the urge to put duct tape over the round , camera thingy?

        • bromo

          Not at all. The crap scientology does and has been known to do does not mean we all have to wear tin foil hats when we wonder if just maybe it possibly could be them. I understand your thoughts completely.

        • Juicer77

          Just use a tiny piece of a sticky note. There are ways to activate cameras remotely. I doubt the Co$ has the sophistication to do it, but others definitely would.

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      LOVE hearing from you. Don’t be a stranger. (‘Cause this place is strange enough…!)

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Oh!

      And I love your avatar! Watch out that the Baby doesn’t show up to claim that kitteh!

    • Lynn Fountain Campbell

      Welcome out from lurkdom. I felt the same way when I first started posting, because I was still trying to regain my critical thinking ability, and everyone else was so smart and well-informed and able to express themselves so intelligently. It’s an ongoing process for me. I’m still trying to catch up. 🙂

    • One Human

      Welcome!
      Every voice is important, so don’t be shy.
      😀

    • Juicer77

      KItty! Welcome to the comments section, PhoebeQ.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Welcome PhoebeQueen!

  • nottrue

    ….

  • MaxSpaceman

    HBO, “Going Clear” – starting now.

    • Miss Tia

      available on hbo go anytime online (must have hbo service) and on demand from hbo!

    • MaxSpaceman

      I like it better, the 2nd time around ! 🙂

  • coonellie

    Baby C and her best bud, after seeing Going Clear with us last night, started to rewrite the Santa Claus story to resemble the Xenu story. Two teenaged girls can really make things even more bizarre than LRH, but the uncontrollable laughter sort of gave them away. They said their “religion” probably wouldn’t sell because they wouldn’t be able to keep a straight face ;).

  • Wogsy Wonka

    Despite the revolting story, I am dying of laughter from the Bunker comments. I got my BETE for the night. Goodnight All!

    • Rasha

      ‘Night, Wogsy!!

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Night night 🙂

      • Super Power Wogsy

        ..pssst…not before dropping all my love bombs. check your bubble upper right. gnite : )

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          Wow, thank you Wogsy, big hugs and love XoXo

  • Violet

    So Bodhi Elfman felt like he had to trot out a Nazi analogy. I responded to him that, as the daughter of a Holocaust survivor and a Jew, I found his comment ignorant and offensive. I’ll let you know if he responds or deletes the tweet. I kind of have a rule: once you find yourself trying to make a Hitler analogy, you should probably just find a new argument.

    • Sid

      Ask him, “And what if someone made a documentary about Nazis and interviewed only Jews who had escaped concentration camps? Would you go hunting Nazis afterwards?”

      • Violet

        Great response. I think I will go ahead and borrow your quote.

        • Sid

          You are welcome to it.

      • Violet

        I told him they did make the films he describes: Shoah and Schindler’s List, and I don’t think any Nazis started a Twitter media campaign in response.

      • ComeToPresentTime

        So much this.

      • Snake Plissken

        Bodhi Elfman believes that the Jew who escaped concentration camps owe the Nazis a freeloader’s debt

        • John Peeler a.k.a. BTs2Free

          Do you mind if I Tweet back at him with this?

          • MaxSpaceman

            ! BTs 2 Free- Tweet on !! Grand being with you at the New York viewing. 🙂

            • John Peeler a.k.a. BTs2Free

              Hey Max, I was at the Austin viewing. Missed NY, but I’m sure it was grand!

            • MaxSpaceman

              oh-! mea culpa ~ I must’ve had 1 beer too many, when I asked, Who’s that? And I swore I heard, That’s John P aka BTs2F !! Too funny 🙂

            • John Peeler a.k.a. BTs2Free

              There is another JohnP who posts some really great things here.

          • Snake Plissken

            No I don’t mind at all, as far as I’m concerned anything I post online is in the public domain

        • John Peeler a.k.a. BTs2Free

          Here’s what I tweeted back:

          BTs2Free@BTs2Free
          now
          @bodhielfman So I guess your take would be that Jews who escaped from Nazi concentration camps would also owe a Freeloader Debt.

          • Kim O’Brien

            i just tweeted that to him 🙂

          • John, you did a Twitter friend thing on me and I deleted it not realizing it was you, sorry.

            • John Peeler a.k.a. BTs2Free

              It’s okay, I’ll send you another “Tweet” request. lol.

        • Mockingbird

          Ouch !! That stings as I have met a concentration camp survivor AND am a Scientology survivor . Neither are anything I would wish on anyone !!!

        • Mockingbird

          By the way I paid my freeloader debt rather than finish my billion year contract !!!

          • John Peeler a.k.a. BTs2Free

            I told them to shove the bill where the sun don’t shine.

            • Juicer77

              *cheering*

          • Snake Plissken

            The nerve of a fuckbag like Hubbard kills me, first he uses you as slave labor then he expects you to pay for it as if it was a privilege, while he was able to quit the Sea Org and walk away with no consequence

    • Snake Plissken

      The only thing I saw in Going Clear that resembled Nazis were the clips of Miscavige’s Nuremberg Rallies

      • Kristin Rawls

        I KNOW RIGHT

    • Snake Plissken

      Someone needs to ask Bodhi Elfman if the imaginary Nazis attacking Scientology he’s referring to are the same people who are running the imaginary psychiatric death camps Hubbard is talking about in this clip

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9NYh_VUWwM

    • Captain MustSavage

      Someone needs to point out to Bohdi that in his analogy everyone thinks THEY’RE the Nazis.

      • generic sock

        Someone needs to point out to everyone else who Bodhi Elfman is.

        • Snake Plissken

          Yeah I had to Google him too

          • Kristin Rawls

            Is he someone in addition to being Jenna Elfman’s husband?

            • Robert Eckert

              Not really.

    • Kristin Rawls

      “They they came for the Scientologists, but I was not a Scientologist so I did not speak out.” I’d tweet that at him, but he’d think I was serious.

    • Mockingbird

      Bodhi is in denial or a completely sealed cult bubble to keep out all truth er “entheta” !

    • bromo

      Heh, I was going to tweet to Bodhi and he has me blocked. LOL Did he go down a line with all the pro Going Clear tweeters and randomly block folks?

    • Anonymous

      The self-important prick Bodhi Elfman has made an absurd analogy between Nazi’s murdering Jews and ex-Scientologist and their interested allies blowing the whistle on Scientology corruption.

      Remember Bodhi? It was the NAZI’s murdering the Jews, not the other way around.

      Mr. Elfman may also have forgotten what happened to the folks that collaborated with the Nazi’s after WW II ended.

    • woodrose

      I took advantage of the good suggestions in this subthread, and added to the torrent sent Bodhi’s way:

      https://twitter.com/XenuLOL/status/582730262699601920

      https://twitter.com/XenuLOL/status/582729195840647168

      https://twitter.com/XenuLOL/status/582732481150898176

      • Mymy88

        Thank you woodrose. Those were fabulous responses you gave him. I love the stupid analogy hash tag lol. It made me laugh.

    • Mymy88

      Thank you for doing that Violet. Please reply to me if you get the chance, and let me know if he deleted it or what. I cannot come close to keeping up with all these Bunker posts today. Thank you!

      • Violet

        I think he may have deleted it, but not before there were some great replies, including by people here.

        • Mymy88

          I’m glad Tony made a big deal today of Bodhi’s idiotic tweets.

    • Violet, ask Bodhi if Jenna still believes she was a 1920s flapper in her last life – that’ll freak him out in a “how the hell did she know that?” way.

    • Graham

      Godwin’s Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

      “there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress”.

    • cathy from encino

      Bodhi’s tweet violates two Internet laws. I let him know which.

      https://twitter.com/encinoc/status/582816015551070209

      • Violet

        Good one. Cathy, my office was in Encino, now in Studio City.

        • cathy from encino

          Hi Violet, actually I don’t have any connection to Encino. My nom de net is a Dr. Laura Sclessinger reference. 🙂 I live in Silicon Valley.

          • Violet

            Oops. lol.

    • Anonymous

      Going Godwin is rarely useful…there just are not many apt comparisons to what the Nazi’s did.

      On a lighter note…Bodhi’s Twitter bio pic helps forward his message of insouciant self-importance. He’s sooooo cool!

  • MaxSpaceman

    Within 15 minutes, the film relates the story of Ron Sr.’s 2nd wife (“I didn’t have a 2nd wife.”)

    Sara Northrup Hollister. Her story is incredible. One sentence of it: “He always said he would kill me rather than let me leave him..”

    • Sid

      Ron’s wives are like Sea Org members, they don’t leave, they escape.

      • kemist

        With no money.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      I loved when LRH said “I never had a 2nd wife” as he was on his 3rd in that Granada interview. He would always walk that line of “I’m obviously joking, but maybe, just maybe, I think you’ll take me seriously or at least it’ll shut down the conversation because you realize you won’t get a real answer out of me”

    • Snake Plissken

      That was about the time he was writing Dianetics and you have to go no further than Dianetics to see the guy was psychotic. I doubt he would have ever killed her, but his obsession with woman trying to abort their babies with knitting needles and men pounding on the heads of their babies with their junk while having sex with their pregnant wives, is creepy as fuck by anyone’s standards.

  • Kristin Rawls

    The reactions to the film remind me to the reactions I remember to Jesus Camp. That seems like a good thing since the camp depicted in that film ended up being forced to close due to public outrage very soon after the film aired. But that was a small nondenominational organization (or a Pentecostal group) without nearly the same kind of legal war chest. It will be interesting to continue watching the fallout from this.

  • Illinoisian

    Has this been posted? (Sorry if it’s old news.)

    What We — and the Church of Scientology — Learned From the ‘Going Clear’ Controversy http://flavorwire.com/511826/what-we-and-the-church-of-scientology-learned-from-the-going-clear-controversy

    • Captain MustSavage

      So many posts these days that re posts are always welcome.

  • Ha! Thought so: At 1:05:25, big long clown-flipper shoes!

    ..

  • ScnMonkeyNuts

    Well, I’ve been in The Bunker all day (and quite a lot of the night too!), but before I head to bed, I said to Judith (previously known as Dale A) in yesterday’s live blog that I’d properly say Hi to everyone, so here goes…

    Hi, my name is Rob Howes, and I’m an Underground Bunker addict! See y’all in the morning/afternoon/evening 🙂

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Hi Rob!

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Hi Michael–*shakes hand* Pleasure to make your acquaintance!

    • MaxSpaceman

      Rob Howes 🙂 you are one Monkey nuts, dang !

      • Wogsy Wonka

        he’s gorgeous too! : )

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          The OaTee powers are strong with us, and we are in synchronicity! I’ve been postulating my mental image to you for a few days now! (unfortunately I can only postulate a few bits of information at a time–which is why it takes a while 🙂 ) Thank you Xo

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Hi Max, thanks, we aim to please 🙂

    • Gerard Plourde

      Hi Rob!

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Hi Gerard! *shakes hand* How do you do!

    • Wogsy Wonka

      okay so I had to totally break my word AGAIN. and just say you are a BRAVE one. Look everyone he’s my friend, and if anyone messes with him (OSA), you go through me : )

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Hiya Wogsy, sorry, should probably have given you a heads up about this one–but felt the time was right. As for the OSAbots–Monkey flings excrement that is better than them 🙂

    • generic sock

      I can’t believe someone posting as “Dale” turned out to be someone named Judith. That is a trip. It’s the only time in my life that I’ve ever thought, “Hmm… Should I have been hitting on Dale? Why wasn’t I hitting on Dale?”

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Ah, but questioning is what makes life interesting g–sock (and the ability to be able to question 🙂 )

    • ElleGee

      Bueno Noche, Mi Amigo!

      • ScnMonkeyNuts

        Thank you ElleGee 🙂

    • Juicer77

      Hello, Rob! I will still call you Monkey sometimes cuz you’re cute that way 🙂

      • Wogsy Wonka

        I’m not his PR person at all, but he is really cute in real life too. I’m just sayin…ok i gotta do this lab…omg and he ends up leaving before me Again.

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          Sorry for dropping that and running–I’ll give you some of my Big Pharma SP check as compensation! Xo (must project Monkey image–h’nnnnng *strains brain to send images of Monkeyness* OaTee connection forming 🙂 )

          • Wogsy Wonka

            …yeah mister. I thought I had to some damage control there. Everyone was crowding the monkey cage. I was like “Everyone BACK UP! But then I got your pictures that you sent telepathically, and I knew you could handle yourself….hence my ETAs : ) I know you’re good.

            • $cnMonkeyNut$

              Thank you (((hugs))) xx

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Hi Juicer–all good, I prefer Monkey! (but will answer to anything up to, and including, “Oi! You there!” 🙂 )

    • MaxSpaceman

      Okay, cool. But please let’s keep posting with this [ F5 / refresh ] cuz it just won’t be the same, without our Scn Monkey Nuts, just won’t. K ?

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Nothing will change on my Disqus Account and the avatar is definitely remaining the same, well there’ll be one small change–but you gotta spot it 🙂

    • Kim O’Brien

      hi Rob ..Howes is going ? 🙂

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        All good in the hood, thanks Kim! Howes about you? *shakes hand* Pleased to meet you!

    • coonellie

      Hi Rob! Kitteh says, “Hi,” too 🙂

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Hi Coonellie! *shakes hand* Kitteh collective say “Hi” too! (F5)

    • Mymy88

      Hi Rob, nice to meet your real name (smile). See you later.

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Hi Mymy–*shakes hand* it’s good to give it an airing from time to time! See you around.

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Rob it is wonderful to see your name! Welcome to the open world!

      • $cnMonkeyNut$

        Hi FMFH, *shakes hand* Thank you, it feels good 🙂

  • Panopea Abrupta

    As $cientology has decided to do battle in the Twitterverse with paid tweets and the indefatigable (or completely traumatized ) and imbecilic John Alex Wood, I thought he was worthy of a little attention:

    ty for the 3rd one to Anonymous

    • Mymy88

      Clap clap clap clap! But I don’t know who the guy is in the third one. Who is he? I guess he looks a little familiar.

  • MaxSpaceman

    It is really film as art when Alex Gibney goes through the OT story. Absolutely perfectly done. With Lawrence Wright voice over, intercut with Hubbard audio, with wonderful moving imagery.

    Awe ~ stunning.

  • what’suppressive

    For those of you that have no other option. The doco is up at the sites that shall not be named. Please buy a DVD copy when it becomes available.

  • noseinabk

    Only one more day to get votes in. http://www.milner.com/jumpstart/jumpstart-tampa

  • This is funny!!!! “THE BUNKER: Next week, Hubbard explains the meaning of life.”

  • justinlillich

    Fascinating stuff! Scientologists are moronic corporate scam artists. The constant “follow the policy” BS “Daniel” spews! It’s mind numbing…

  • woodrose

    White House petition to revoke the tax exempt status of Scientology:

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/revoke-scientologys-tax-exempt-status

    (I’m sure it’s already been posted, but just in case you missed it) Lots of signatures needed!

    • Tom Morton

      More signatures please.

  • Money problem! In Going Clear at 1:06:43, Marty says that CoS was facing a tax bill of a billion dollars, but only had liquid and material assets of a quarter of that. And that’s what they were reporting to the IRS:

    Scientologists Report Assets of $400 Million October 22, 1993, Robert D. Hershey Jr., New York Times

    The problem is that when Hubbard died, he had somewhere between $200 and $400 million squirreled away, perhaps more. A small pittance was paid out to family members, and the rest should have gone back to Scientology via Author’s Trust B or other routes. I doubt they blew it all in a few years, so what happened to it?

    It’s possible that Marty doesn’t know. Miscavige’s “second in command” is always really just the first minion.

    • Snake Plissken

      We’re talking about a cult run by people that belonged in a playground, any lawyer involved that would associate with someone like Hubbard would have no problem sucking out as much money as possible without any of the flunkies running the show even noticing. I’m sure people nobody has even heard of got rich and were smart enough to walk away and disappear.

      • I’m sure some of the bills, gold and diamonds at the ranch were paid out for services and silence, but most of it was off-shore.

        The question is, did they ever account for it with the IRS when they were supposed to come clean and open the books?

        • Snake Plissken

          Off Shore in some lawyer’s account, what incentive would anyone have to give a twerp like Miscavige access to any of that unrecorded money? And Hubbard was way too far gone by that time to even know what was going on.

    • TinyTyrant

      I thought I read somewhere that LRH was receiving suitcases of cash every week driven to his hideout ranch up until the week he died and that those suit cases held around a million dollars. Does anyone know if this is correct?

      • Snake Plissken

        I heard that too, and what could someone that spent the majority of the last decade of his life incoherently babbling in fetal position while hiding out in a mobile home, do with suitcases of cash?

        Anyone with an IQ above room temperature that ran across this situation walked away with the money and never looked back.

      • There was one account of a treasure hunt digging up suitcases in the middle of the night after Hubbard died.

        Still, most of it was in sizable accounts in Lichtenstein and other places. (One story, here I think, of a messenger being greeted as “Mr Hubbard” at the bank and the scramble that caused.)

        I should mention that the $200M was an early low-ball guess by Richard Behar in 1986. I think he later doubled it to “$400 million or higher”.

        • Lynn Fountain Campbell

          Wonder what’s *really* in those underground vaults in Trementina, New Mexico.

          • Missionary Kid

            Hi Lynne, I enjoyed meeting your smiling face at Going Clear.

            That’s a good question, but there’s been no hint of money being put there. I would imagine that any cash kept for emergencies would be held close at hand. Tremenitina is too far off the track and really too inaccessible, but that’s just my own opinion.

    • Juicer77

      Can’t remember who talked about Miscavige rolling the big bucks in Vegas in side trips on those cash missions to Hubbard. Someone who was in the upper levels and did a multi-part interview about how Miscavige came to power. Sorry, my tired brain is running very low on wattage 🙂

      • Miscavige framed Pat Broeker at Creston ranch.

        • Juicer77

          Good point!

    • Try a billion in cult coffers by 1978 said Jon Ausley to me, who had been on the Apollo and married to Paulette “CS6 but I have no idea about the difference between a dirty needle and a rock slam” Ausley, ate dinner with the Hubbards all the time. David Miscavige was a courier of monies to Luxembourg, Lichenstein, etc.

      • $400M in liquid assets and property reported to the IRS in 1993 seems unlikely when they were estimated to be taking in $300M/year; it seems impossible if Hubbard’s estate was included in the total.

  • Narapoid

    I am in too-steep-of-gradient. I feel “overwhelmed” and a bit of “reeling”. The avalanches of truthful coverage and tweets and what would normally be a huuuge splash with our proprietor: http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/hbo-going-clear-scientology/5514adee78c90a68c7001153 Tony is rocking and is the ONLY voice in media that has the work ethic and perspective to get the big picture. Just too much to process and I HAVEN’T EVEN SEEN “Going Clear”.

    I have no idea the scope of the crap that the “church” has put you through Tony, but I know it wasn’t just a little. Power to you brother, as I do not think that all that is following this documentary would have happened without your very considerable efforts. Aside from your talent and vision, your stomach and heart after talking to the vicims, and balls to take the goddamned thing on.

    I hope I’m like you when I grow up 😉

    • Snake Plissken

      You gotta respect Tony the guy has been getting shit shoveled on him by this crime syndicate for two decades now, he could have easily just walked away and worked on covering safer subjects but he stuck with it.

  • MaxSpaceman

    In Going Clear, Marty related how he and Mike Rinder would be sent to meet with Travolta’s PR person and/or lawyer(s), and, then, they would plan and carry out intimidation against the person attacking JT with charges of gay advances etc.

    Followed by Lawrence Wright then saying, “After that he was completely in the hands of the church.”

    Illustrating that comment, Scientology video of the birthday event for Ron Sr., Miscavige had Travolta introduce something. Startling: it seems like Dave is standing in a hole. He is so small. Here, the Scilon hoi poloi are singing happy birthday to Ron Sr. On some tumblr page I stumbled on this.

    • MaxSpaceman

      And just saying, the burlwood work is … John Brosseau’s work on the Cruise special Ford Excursion SUV is in a phrase completely gorgeous awesomeness.

  • bromo
    • noseinabk

      Some interesting comments on Gibneys twitter. More footage may become available and some nut asked if his film was funded by Johnson & Johnson.

      • bromo

        I have just been on the #GoingClear hastag since yesterday. Will go look at my timeline and read. Thanks. And I just want to point out that every time a celebrity tweets about this, their millions of followers see it. Hopefully some of those followers that were unaware will go watch it.

        • Cosmo Pidgeon

          Celebrity influence in Scientology reverse. So fitting.

          • Missionary Kid

            They’ve strong-armed too many celebrities to bring them into the fold, and they’re pissed off too many with their supercilious attitudes and ham-fisted attempts to recruit celebrities.

            Lacking empathy, they just won’t succeed.

  • Zer0
    • aurora50

      Moved by her thoughtful conclusion. I suspect even those of us who are ‘never-ins’ might have sub-cognitive beliefs that could take some examination…

      ‘As long as the outside world fails to resolve those ruins, to feed that
      need to do good or to address the fears of those who are terrified of
      parts of the medical establishment, Scientology will continue to have
      some appeal. Journalists and filmmakers such as Wright, Gibney and
      Ortega will be able to keep pushing Scientology to the margins by
      mocking it. But to free the people held in its “prison of belief,” we’ll
      have to take that belief seriously enough to help them find better
      options.’

      • Zer0

        I found that conclusion to be lacking, almost like she’s saying Wright and Gibney didn’t do their homework.

        • Sherbet

          The writer missed the boat. The book and documentary were pretty fair-minded, and the only thing that could be considered mockery were quips from exes, not the journalists.

          • Zer0

            Indeed. Some of the brightest visionaries on the planet, in collaboration, would never condescend to that level.

      • Couch_Incident

        I disliked the charge of “mockery” against these men who, although never in, have been compassionate to victims consistently. South Park’s “Trapped in the Closet” had mockery, not “Going Clear.”

      • WildaBeast

        It irritates me a good deal that she claims Wright, Gibney and Tony are just “mocking” Scientology. Wright did not publish a book of mockery. He published a book of fact, and while it was critical, it was not mocking. I haven’t managed to see all of Going Clear yet, but those bits I’ve managed to get my eyeballs on are not making fun of Scientology or Scientologists; on the contrary, the tone seems serious and, when doing the interviews, quite compassionate. Tony may publish the Sunday Funnies every week, but that’s about as far as he goes with outright mockery. Occasionally he may make a snide comment in a story about getting rid of alien space cooties or some such; but as a general rule, he publishes serious pieces which are INCREDIBLY compassionate toward and understanding of those trapped in the cult or who have left it.
        The problem here is that Scientology is so ludicrous that it mocks itself. It’s not possible to take, say, the OTIII story and represent it visually on a screen without it seeming like mockery to people who aren’t in and never have been. The initial reaction is hilarity and confusion: “LOLwut?! WTF did I just see?” But that isn’t the journalists, documentarians, or authors ‘mocking’ Scientology: that’s the subject matter being so inherently ridiculous that the most even-handed coverage on earth would seem like trolling to someone who had never heard of it.

        To reduce the achievements of Tony, Lawrence Wright, and Alex Gibney to nothing but “mockery” is to ignore how much solid journalism, how much research, how much effort and knowledge, goes into the work all three of them (especially Tony!) have done. They may be critical of Scientology’s practices (and what sane person isn’t, once they’re aware of them?), and Tony especially may indulge in the occasional bit of snark, but that’s a very small percentage of their coverage of the topic. It’s disingenuous at best, and a downright insulting lie at worst, to label so much serious, solid work as “mockery”. South Park mocks Scientology; Anonymous mocks Scientology; Gibney, Wright and Ortega COVER Scientology (and let it mock itself). If this journalist can’t perceive the difference between the two, she should stop typing now and go back to school to learn basic critical thinking and comprehension skills.

        Postscript: if what Tony was doing was just “mocking” Scientology, there is no way in hell that so many exes and even Indies would have found a community at The Underground Bunker. Most people aren’t such masochists that they would spend hours of their time on a website run by someone who was engaging in nothing but mockery of something to which they gave so much of their lives. Tony’s status within the community of ex-Scientologists is a testament to the nature of his work, and this woman’s ignorance could have been remediated in ten minutes of scrolling through the comments on any one of his stories.

        I’m actually annoyed enough that I’m going to post this over at the Washington Post.

        • Missionary Kid

          The most damaging part of the video is the material from $cientology itself, and it is not presented in a mocking tone. It doesn’t have to. Scientology’s seriousness mocks itself, and it doesn’t have a clue.

  • MaxSpaceman

    It was only after 2009 Paul Haggis’ leaving the cherch, that things really started to get into a higher gear. When Marty Internet published Paul’s leaving letter, that went global into 600 papers the next morning. March 29th / 30th showing of Going Clear is the EP. And starts a sea change in ‘everyone’s reaction to Scientology and Scientologists. Everywhere.

    • Snake Plissken

      They really wasn’t a single tipping point, it was gradual, and coincided with the growing popularity the internet. The cult had no answer for the internet and every time they tried to stop the exposure it resulted in them shooting themselves in the foot.

      • MaxSpaceman

        okay it still is a nice momentum builder. 🙂

        • Snake Plissken

          Definitely, as were other events such as the death of Lisa McPherson, or the cult’s attempt to silence Anonymous.

      • One Human

        As the fight has always been, they can no longer supress their secrets.

      • Don’t forget when Anonymous went after them big time and protested in those masks. That was HUGE and they’re owed a lot.

        • Missionary Kid

          Exactly.

          Correct me if I’m wrong,but I believe $cientology didn’t and still doesn’t understand the internet. By thinking they could control a decentralized group of people with their usual ham-fisted approach that had been successful against individuals in the past, they managed to piss off many more smart young people with a lot of time on their hands who knew nothing to little about $cientology, but much more about the internet and communication than $cientology ever will.

          $cientology threw a rock at a wasp’s nest, as if it was a paper bag. The resultant blowback gave exes and critics cover so they could voice their concerns and truths about $cientology. It gave them numerous allies that they’d never had before.

          • When personal computers got started, Hubbard wrote no big deal, they’re just dumb computers. Then he did an about-face and INCOMM was born and those Sea Ogres would tell you they had the most superior computer tech no Earth. Naturally, it was bullshit, and Anonymous really made them eat it.

            • Missionary Kid

              $cientology hubris in action.

          • daytoncapri

            “$cientology threw a rock at a wasp’s nest, as if it was a paper bag.”
            Good one. ⬆⬆⬆⬆

            • Missionary Kid

              Thanks. The imagery fit the circumstances.

              $cientology doesn’t realize.that there are thinking people out in the rest of the world who don’t think the way that LRH has decreed. Those people get pissed off when someone else tries to force their will on on them. Scientology tried to push truly anonymous people around. They couldn’t envision that there was a huge, fast growing community that had set up communication that had the ability to rapidly pass the news about persecution and prosecution of innocents. Anonymous itself didn’t know its own size or reach.

              The cult doesn’t understand that we live in a free society where there are many complex people who just don’t like to be pushed around, and who will push back.

              Just as bees and wasps emit pheromones that call the hive to action, the anonymous net dwellers used the internet to spread the word of the attacks by $cientology. When everyone who showed up and protested discovered that there were many more like them, Anonymous became a movement.

              Scientology still hasn’t figured out that they’re screwed, and they’re so stuck in doing things the way that LRH dictated, and that nearly every move they make can be almost instantaneously reported around the world..

  • generic sock

    My mother just told me she turned Going Clear off during Spanky Taylor’s story because it was getting too sad. She couldn’t wrap her head around why anyone would leave their baby somewhere else. I reminded her of the week I spent at the Taco Bell where she dropped me off as I was just learning to walk. She said she thought I wanted to learn to run for the border. And then she cackled like a hyena.

    • bromo

      I wanna hang with your Mom.

    • Mymy88

      Ah, now I see where you get it from lol.

      • generic sock

        That’s right. From Taco Bell.

        • Mymy88

          Yo quiero Taco Bell. Please. take. out. the. space. if. you. want. to. watch. the link.

          https://www.youtube.com /watch?v=cZe3HuFA9v4

    • My sis practically jumped out of her seat at that part. She just had her first baby six months ago so it was super horrifying to her.

    • Missionary Kid

      Luckily, I TIVO’d the video. A neighbor of mine had to leave at about 1:40 because he couldn’t take any more, but he said he’ll be back to watch the rest.

      He’s been telling all his friends about it, and first, they wanted to know what theaters they could see it in, so now they’re trying to find HBO showings. The most ardent people wanting to see it are a group of Exes who didn’t know about it because they’ve tried to leave their experiences far behind.

  • aurora50

    (someone asked us to set avatars, so I did…hope to live up to it!)

    • MaxSpaceman

      ‘Twas Natlificent, iirc. (and you already have, Aurora luv)

    • Donna Cline Sargent

      As A Alaskan,I love it ! Its the most amazing experiences I have ever had. Nothing can compare.

      • aurora50

        yes! and the sound/not sound of it…the whisper of the Spheres!

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          no one can understand the magnificence of it unless they witness it,

          • Missionary Kid

            Ironically, the Van Allen Belt has a big part in the production of the Northern Lights.

            In my opinion, they mock Hubbard to the max.

    • It’s just so much easier 🙂

      • aurora50

        Yes, especially with our growing numbers…

      • YNDOT

        I am realitively new to commenting. If you don’t mind, could you please you explain why the avatars are important and also how to see who are upvoters? I keep upvoting myself, which isn’t a great way to jump into a discussion. :). Thanks much! Xx

        • generic sock

          Avatars are important because if you don’t have one, people will bug you about it until you have one.

          • YNDOT

            That is my motto, just do enough to not get fired…or bugged. 🙂

        • Hit F5 button for diagram.

          • YNDOT

            Woo hoo! Thank you! I hope you didn’t go through too much trouble making this cheat sheet. I do appreciate it, especially so quickly!

          • YNDOT

            I think I have fat thumb syndrome! My hovering skills need work.

        • Kristin Rawls

          There are lots of trolls. I suppose if you’re willing to take the 20 seconds needed to supply an avatar, it’s maybe a little less likely that you’re trolling? No one told me this — just a guess.

          • Nah, trolls use avatars all the time. It just distinguishes you from the pack 🙂

            • Kristin Rawls

              Ah, okay.

          • YNDOT

            Thank you! Sounds right. Somehow I was thinking there was a nifty function attached to them I was missing out on.

        • WildaBeast

          Avatars are important basically because if most of us have one, it’s a lot easier to distinguish between commenters as you scroll through. If most of us are using the standard avatar, which is just a blank cartoon head & shoulders portrait kind of thing, it’s kind of hard to distinguish, especially if you’re reading super-fast. Also, I think there’s a perception that people who set up avatars are more dedicated commenters in some way, although there are some people here who have certainly managed to buck that stereotype.

          • YNDOT

            Aha! Thank you! It was a much simpler answer than I was thinking it would be. 🙂

        • Missionary Kid

          They’re also important because if someone wants to find a comment by a specific poster, they can spot an avatar much quicker than reading a name.

          People will see my airplane, and know it’s Missionary Kid. A generic avatar means that one has to read the much smaller print to see who’s posting.

          Wildabeast has put it better than I.

          • WildaBeast

            Why thank you, MK – I was reading your comment and actually thinking the exact same thing: ‘Oh, he said what I meant so much more concisely!’

            • Missionary Kid

              I try to give credit where credit is due. Gibney and Wright, as well as Tony on their publicity tour, were careful to give credit to all of the giants who have made their standing possible. I’m just trying to follow their example.

    • Dancing Cranberry

      Welcome! I love the Northern Lights. I can see them from my back deck when they’re out.

      • MaxSpaceman

        In Houston ?!?

        • Dancing Cranberry

          oops, I meant to reply to you, Max and replied to myself instead.

          • MaxSpaceman

            Oh! I am having too many aVi / handle mixups. There’s so many different peeps now, I’m stumbling here. I was thinking of the person in Houston who’s name is H-something berry. I’m going to bed :-/

            • Robert Eckert

              You’re thinking of Hingle McKringleberry

      • Dancing Cranberry

        In northern Alberta! 🙂

  • MaxSpaceman

    I missed this last night (March 29) in Going Clear on HBO. Tonight it just stuns one.

    “They tried to destroy me. There’s no question about that.” — Tony O, “Going Clear.”

    • Juicer77

      Maybe during one of the cutouts? I will rewatch, catching up on Walking Dead right now!

      • MaxSpaceman

        Yes- had to be 1 of ’em. Cuz it really startles ya’.

    • Missionary Kid

      I would say that if $cientology had just left all the people in Going Clear and many of the other exes and critics that preceded them, they wouldn’t have them speaking up now, or the vast reserve of anger that they now face.

      $cientology, because of LRH’s paranoid policies that dictate attack was destined to create more and more enemies. That wouldn’t matter much when there wasn’t the internet as well as social media to connect people.

      There was little blowback then, because people outside of $cientology just didn’t know or believe. A person could communicate with only a few others, unless they belonged to a group, like a church of a fraternal order, and even then, there was no video evidence to illustrate the cruelty and nastiness.

      The internet and the technology to record and disseminate events online changed all that.

      The most damaging portions of Going Clear come from the devoted, David Miscavige, and of course, L. Ron Hubbard, as well as $cientology smears are on the internet for all to see, and their obvious mendacity exposed.

      Recordings of someone trying to force disconnection, the LAX encounter, the Squirrel Busters, are all out there for everyone to see and are widely disseminated,within hours, or are released at strategic times to have the greatest effect.

      The highly secret, (in $cientology, at least), OTIII documents can be seen with a mouse click, and the pneumonia predicted by LRH just doesn’t happen. Laughter and derision does.

      As Chris Shelton has put it, $cientology’s failure is part of its DNA. It will not reform or change its course in the face of a vastly different world, and that has doomed it.

      • WildaBeast

        Speaking of Scientology’s mendacity being on the internet for all to see, have you noticed that if you go to Youtube right now, they’ve got a paid ad smearing Going Clear in the top spot of any search you do? I was trying to find the movie on Youtube, and noticed it; when I gave up in despair and went to find some John Oliver with which to soothe my frustrations – there it was again! It’s claiming Alex Gibney is a “Doctor of Propaganda” and the screenshot of the video in the ad is completely ludicrous. It’s kind of great.

        • Missionary Kid

          Yup. You’ll notice that they don’t say anything specific about the film, except they focus on the brief clip of the ants. Everything else is personal attacks.

          If a $cientologist says nasty things about the film, ask them how much of the film was devoted to the item objected to, and have them tell at what time it showed up. I believe that it will quickly be revealed that they’ve formed an opinion on a movie they haven’t seen.

          My advice is to never get involved with a $cientologist with their ad hominem attacks. Treat them politely, but firmly. They will always try to stir us up so they can point and say, “see, those wogs are angry, dangerous people.”

          Their goal is to get us stirred up, angry,and fighting among ourselves. They are operating from a stance of fear and anger, and they want us to be the same.

          We aren’t the same because we don’t take legal action, or dead agent them, or use PIs to follow them. We do jeer and laugh at their mistakes, but our purpose is to end the tyranny, lying, and cruelty of $cientology. We haven’t fleeced anyone of all their assets, and put them out on the street with nothing. At least that’s what I believe, and that’s why I objected to Marty’s “Vortex of Hate” post yesterday where he gives what I would say, is a false equivalency between critics and exes and $cientology.

          We haven’t imprisoned anyone, killed anyone, or sent PIs after anyone who disagrees with us. Marty has come a long way, but that post sounds too much like a $cientologist that he says he no longer is, in my opinion. I imagine that OSA, as much as it dislikes Marty, will love to quote it.

          • WildaBeast

            I haven’t read Marty’s post. I’ll have to check it out. I don’t usually read his stuff, because even though he’s come a long way, I still find his posts frustrating sometimes, and a lot of the commenters on his site drive me absolutely freaking batshit. But I’ll have a look at it so I can see what you’re talking about.
            I agree with you that no matter how vocal our criticism may be, it isn’t even on the same spectrum as many of the things Scientology has said or done in the information war for its reputation.

  • Mymy88

    Of course that would never happen, but I get the point lol. (Tweet)

    • Juicer77

      The rallies made my eyes physically hurt, after the lovely chiaroscuro tones of the interviews. Shocking and jolting.

      • Mymy88

        Yup, sick-making.

    • Spackle Motion

      I LOVE LOVE LOVE Ms. Betty Bowers. She’s America’s best Christian!

      http://www.bettybowers.com/

      • Mymy88

        Ha ha, I didn’t have a clue who she was, and I still had not gotten around to Googling her when I saw your link lol. Thanks.

  • Fuji

    I just have a quick comment about Going Clear. Scientology made a big thing about the shot of the ants and claimed that the director used the shot to portray Scientologists as ants, something that Nazis had done with Jews (btw it’s rich how they compared this film to Nazi propaganda so many times considering their own films) but I’m watching Going Clear now and the shot of ants was just to show the conditions of The Hole. The amount of times I’m lied to and misled by Scientology still astounds me.

    • Snake Plissken

      What astounds me is that the furthest thing from the cult’s mind is getting it’s shit together and trying to act like a legitimate organization instead of a crime syndicate. That is why reform is out of the question, they are rotten to the core, just as Hubbard was.

      • Kristin Rawls

        I suppose it makes sense since their goal is all about emulating the personality and tactics of their paranoid and despotic founder.

        • Kristin Rawls

          But my advice to them would be to pay a non-Scientology PR firm with no conscience a lot of money to interact with the outside world for them — while they just STFU. They really are their own worst enemies.

    • Juicer77

      There was an extreme closeup of one of the ants accompanied by voiceover that gave the distinct feeling of commentary about the antlike role of the Co$ “llower class.” Highly effective, multi-layered imagery. Yes, they are ants. Mindless, programmed, mission-oriented ants.

      • Fuji

        There was one brief close-up shot of an ant when they were discussing what was happening in The Hole and there were also quick close-up shots of other things. I didn’t feel like they were implying that the ant was a Scientologist but either way, Scientology said that the shot of all the ants running about was to symbolize Scientologists, and it wasn’t.

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          Tony is banning ppl who post links for GC

          • Fuji

            Oh, really? Why?

            • WildaBeast

              My guess is it’s a copyright thing. Out of respect to Alex Gibney and HBO, I doubt Tony wants people posting links to unauthorized copies of the documentary. I can respect that.

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              yes thats it

            • Donna Cline Sargent

              because there bootleg,earlier 2 ppl disappeared,so I dont know if he just deleted or banned,but if you go thru all the threads he makes it clear. but maybe he gave up. just tryin to help.didn’t want you to get in trouble.

    • kemist

      That’s “acceptable truth”.

      Just like when you are merely using someone’s confidential information to control them, it is not blackmail, because you have not asked for any money.

    • Missionary Kid

      To use an old joke,
      Q: How do you know if $cientology is lying?
      A. They’re sending out telexes, statements, pronouncements, videos, and, as they used to, spokespersons to speak about anything.

    • Anonymous

      The church PR folks picked that trivial concern as a misdirection ploy. Isolating on the trivial they hoped to steer the narrative away from the focus on the abuses endemic within church culture. Their efforts earns a FAIL.

      • One Human

        Perhaps Heber is sharing ideas…

  • Baby’s here — in yesterday’s posts upvoting things XD

    • MaxSpaceman

      Baby been gone toooooo long 🙂
      Still doing the dishes gig at the restauarant? been busy busy …

      • Nah. She quit. She was partying yesterday. Didn’t you see L. Wrong’s pics? Oh, that’s right you were out partying too!

        • L. Wrong Hubturd

          Someone put my “Beghe balls” photo on Jason’s wall! Woot woot! Baby was dying.

      • L. Wrong Hubturd

        She’s been enturbulating in Clearwater. She was without computer, so we read posts to her that were worth hearing. Don’t worry, you’ll know when she’s here….

  • woodrose

    24 hours after the premiere, #GoingClear and Scientology are trending on Twitter. Good times.

    The water drops I contributed to the flood:

    https://twitter.com/XenuLOL/status/582733441663307776

    https://twitter.com/XenuLOL/status/582734444596850690

  • Prim

    Torrents are going strong:
    Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief 720p 1182 472
    Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief HDTV 1040 585

    The last two numbers indicate the number of seeders (people who are SHARING this file) and the second is the number of people getting it who are not sharing. The two indicate different resolutions.

    This information is publically available on most torrent sites. What you DO with the torrents are your own affair. It merely shows that over 3000 people are getting the movie at this moment in time from all over the world.

    Tick Tock, Davey

    • Snake Plissken

      There is a lot of interest in Going Clear, this may be the biggest thing to ever happen in Scientology, Going Clear may be the first Scientology film to win an Oscar.

      • Mymy88

        Good one! LOL

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Mr. Free texted me to say it is playing again tonight (as if I didn’t know…)

    • One Human

      Thirst for knowledge!

  • DMSTCC

    Is COB doing the Elaine dance? What is the story on this photo? (I took a pic of my tv)

    • generic sock

      They were celebrating after the IRS caved.

      • DMSTCC

        Understood, but there’s gotta be a reason why they are posing like this, but what was the influence of this action caught on film?

        • MaxSpaceman

          Photographer: to those onstage– “Take a bow !”
          Voila.

          • aurora50

            Is that Marty R on the far right?

            • MaxSpaceman

              Dollars to donuts? yeah 🙂

            • Jenstnick

              Yes

        • ComeToPresentTime

          COB and Marty were elated that they saved Scientology, the IRS dudes were happy that all their lawsuits all god dropped. Everybody wins!

    • That is so incredibly creepy. Can we get copies of all these images? I think of it as the equivalent of defeating an opponent, then forcing them to wear silly outfits and roll around on a unicycle.

    • Mymy88

      Who can ever forget the Elaine dance lololol. And yes, he does look like he’s doing it ha ha.

    • Sherbet

      It just goes to show what a frivolous Regular Joe sort of guy cob is. That’s why they love him.

    • Spackle Motion

      What minute mark is that? I can try to capture from HBOGo. It was a lot clearer during the theatrical release and yes, that is Rathbun on the end.

    • Jenstnick

      The Carlton

  • WildaBeast

    Okay, guys, I need help. I am going freaking insane here! I tried to stream the second showing of Going Clear at 9pm tonight, but the stream was unwatchably skippy and I had to reload it three times because it just kept getting stuck, before I finally gave up in despair and frustration. Then I tried to find it on Youtube – someone had put it up, and I got to the window, but the video repeatedly refused to load because “An error occurred”. I reloaded Youtube, and the video had been taken down under a copyright request (I was kind of expecting that, but maybe not *quite* so quickly.) I’ve managed to watch about twenty jerky, pixellated minutes of Going Clear and I’ve put probably three solid hours of effort into getting the damn thing to work.
    Does anyone have the thing saved to their hard drive? If you do, are you willing to send me the file? I live in Canada – I don’t get HBO here. I just want to be able to watch the goddamned movie with my wife! We’ve been sniping at each other for the last forty-five minutes, since we realized we weren’t going to be able to get it to work, and it’s not even that we’re mad at each other; we’re just both so disappointed that it’s making us bitchy and we’re taking it out on one another.
    Help save my marriage! Send me the precious megabyes that contain Going Clear!
    Seriously, if anyone can do this, I will be so very thankful…

    • MaxSpaceman

      look down thread for the bit torrent data

      • WildaBeast

        Thank you, I’ll have a look!

    • Dibythesea

      Someone posted a link down thread.

      • WildaBeast

        Thanks! I’ll go hunt for it, though if Tony is editing links to it, it may be gone now.

    • Mymy88

      I know someone who can help you, I think. Can you give me your email address? Or give it to me on one of my old posts so no one will see it?

      • WildaBeast

        Your account is private, so I can’t see your recent comments. I’ll look for something buried downthread to reply to 🙂

        • Mymy88

          No no, I’ll unprivate my account. That will be much easier. I did not post a lot today.

          • Robert Eckert

            Doesn’t matter now: Fuji got a working link to Wilda.

            • Mymy88

              Okay, thanks much Robert Eckert.

    • Fuji
      • WildaBeast

        Thank you!

      • WildaBeast

        It seems to be working…if you can edit this out of existence, that might be a good idea just to avoid irritating Tony. Cannot thank you enough!