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‘Going Clear’: Marty Rathbun on what he was thinking during his key moment in Gibney’s film

Marty_Rathbun_GC2

Just four days to go now before the airing of Alex Gibney’s documentary about Scientology, Going Clear, on HBO Sunday night at 8 pm. We have another screenshot from the movie for you, featuring former top Scientology executive Mark “Marty” Rathbun.

We noticed that some press stories about Going Clear criticized Gibney for not explaining that Rathbun was still a Scientologist and audited other people who had left the church. Manohla Dargis of the New York Times was one notable example.

But there’s a good reason why Gibney didn’t refer to that in the film, and that’s because it’s simply not true.

Rathbun was the second-highest ranking official in Scientology, the right hand man to leader David Miscavige. But he defected in 2004, went underground, and then resurfaced with a blog in 2009 that was highly critical of Miscavige. At that time, he wrote at length about “saving” Scientology from its “corporate” version, and he offered to audit people who had left the church without leaving their affinity for L. Ron Hubbard and his ideas.

But if you’ve paid attention to Rathbun’s blog in more recent years, you know that something really interesting happened there. Over time, as Rathbun tried to separate out what was “good” in Scientology from what was “bad” (and associated with David Miscavige), he found it more and more difficult to do.

Increasingly, he criticized L. Ron Hubbard for putting into place the toxic policies that make Scientology problematic today — and he got an earful from commenters who didn’t want to see Hubbard criticized. Some of them became so incensed at the direction Rathbun was going in, they formed their own organization for those who still think Hubbard was essentially infallible.

Rathbun, meanwhile, continued to explore other philosophical traditions and recommended non-Scientology reading for the community at his blog. You could see him becoming open to the idea that Hubbard may not have been the greatest thinker who ever lived, and that the science fiction writer actually paled alongside other intellectual traditions.

Then came a couple of big moments at the Rathbun blog. In December 2013 he announced that he was still offering courses, but they were instruction in how to leave Scientology entirely behind. We were pretty stunned when we saw that, and we figured it marked a milestone. Rathbun was far, far away from where he had been in 2009 when he started his blog. And then, more recently, another stunning post: Rathbun laid out the beliefs of Scientology, and it was brutal. Rathbun didn’t appear to see any real value in Scientology at all, at least not that hadn’t been imported from somewhere else.

Still, we were fairly stunned at what we think is one of the two or three most remarkable moments in Going Clear, when Rathbun is asked to sum up the entire experience — was he regretful? If you haven’t seen the movie, we won’t spoil his answer for you, we’ll just say it was preceded by a loooong pause, indicating, we felt, how significant it meant to Rathbun.

This week, as we were preparing for this countdown, we thought we’d ask Rathbun about that moment. We told him we thought it was one of the most emotional moments in the movie, and we had to ask — what was he thinking?

Rathbun said he wanted to put his utterance in a larger context.

“Tony, I have to explain something. I never was practicing Scientology outside of the church. I used to do ‘repairs’ on people, but in retrospect, I came to realize that what I was doing outside the church was never really Scientology,” he told us.

“In the movie, Jason Beghe calls me the ‘Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky’ of auditing. But what I was doing in Ingleside wasn’t Scientology. It was just the ability to instill confidence in somebody, and when you come down to something that generic, that’s not Scientology, that’s just something Hubbard ripped off from someone else.”

Whoa. We wanted to make sure we were getting this right.

“What I was actually doing was asking people to tell me how Scientology had harmed them, and then they had the freedom to talk about things they had always been afraid to say while they were in the church. I’d ask that question and just listen to them for hours and acknowledge what Scientology had done to mess them up,” he added. “And the funny thing is, Scientology has been in court saying that they surveilled me because I was using their technology. Actually, I was helping people get away from it.”

Rathbun confirmed that over time, at his blog, he’d taken apart Scientology until there was nothing left. “When I deconstructed and stripped it down, I realized that it wasn’t Scientology that ever made anyone feel that I was doing them any good,” he said. “When Alex asked me that question in the movie, I thought, it’s the whole thing, I had come full circle to say that anything of use during my Scientology experience wasn’t original, and I probably would have found it elsewhere.”

We asked him what he thought of the movie. “I did a two- or three-hour interview, which was no big deal. But the way Alex put it all together, he did a great job, and he made it with emotional impact. It does a great public service, because it will put people on notice about the end product. It will make it hard for Scientology to recruit new people.”

 
——————–

Mike Rinder on the hypocrisy of disconnection and celebrities

Over at his blog this morning, Mike Rinder has a great post about how celebrities get treated differently when it comes to Scientology’s strict rules about “disconnection” which rip families apart. He has an interesting photograph showing Jennifer Lopez and Leah Remini, and in the background J-Lo’s father, a longtime Scientologist.

What is he doing around an SP like Leah? And if Jennifer can keep her friends and family intact while hanging out with an outspoken former member, why can’t Sara Goldberg, for example, see both her son and her daughter?

It’s a great example of how Scientology’s toxic policies get applied differently for the rich and famous.

 
——————–

Your proprietor on WFMU

We jumped at the chance to be on WFMU out of Jersey City, which has had us on in the past for good shows. In this case, we were on the Aerial View show with Chris T last night, and he was well prepared. Here are a couple of links to the show. (Fun music takes up the first five minutes.)

 
——————–

Bonus photos from our tipsters

Caption for this image at Scientology Argentina: “Monday at midnight , we have a date … Tuesday starts with great Theta!” Scientology TV? Hey, Buenos Aires folks, let us know what’s going on…

 
SciArgentina

 
Scientologists are using social media more than ever. Drop us a line if you spot them posting images to Instagram or Facebook!

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on March 25, 2015 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

Learn about Scientology with our numerous series with experts…

BLOGGING DIANETICS: We read Scientology’s founding text cover to cover with the help of LA attorney and former church member Vance Woodward

UP THE BRIDGE: Claire Headley and Bruce Hines train us as Scientologists

GETTING OUR ETHICS IN: Jefferson Hawkins explains Scientology’s system of justice

SCIENTOLOGY MYTHBUSTING: Historian Jon Atack discusses key Scientology concepts

PZ Myers reads L. Ron Hubbard’s “A History of Man” | Scientology’s Master Spies | Scientology’s Private Dancer
The mystery of the richest Scientologist and his wayward sons | Scientology’s shocking mistreatment of the mentally ill
The Underground Bunker’s Official Theme Song | The Underground Bunker FAQ

 

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  • Wow. That’s totally amazing.

    Wonder what Judge Waldrip would think of this? For that matter, I wonder what David Miscavige thinks of this (after all, we can be 100% certain he wouldn’t trust any of those incompetent SPs he has working for him to do something as important as monitoring The Underground Bunker…)

    • Judges can only consider what has been presented to them in court and have to be careful about what they pick up from outside sources.

      Ontario, not Texas, but the idea is the same:
      Guilty verdict overturned after judge consults Google Street View

      • Amazing. I hadn’t heard of that case, and I live in Ontario – but Ontario is a pretty large place, and Toronto is 500 kilometers south of here

      • EnthralledObserver

        ^^ That’s precisely what’s wrong with the US legal system right there. Facts are irrelevant unless the lawyer presented them holding his tongue in the right position while humming a song in tune. How ridiculous!

        • April

          To be fair, though, Google street view images can be several years old and do not necessarily reflect what the site looked like at the time of the assault. The judge was also looking specifically at the fence and whether or not someone could cut their hand on it. He said that the injury to the hand looked like it was caused by teeth, when it had not been established that the judge was an expert with this type of evidence. The street view image also wasn’t presented in court and the defense attorney had no opportunity to counter it. Also, this case happened in Canada, not the USA.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Those kinds of questions/challenges can be addressed on the spot (and they should be allowed to be challenged) – the facts will remain the same regardless of how they are brought to court. It’s the rigid, inflexible process that is the problem.

            • Robert Eckert

              The problem in the case cited is that the judge didn’t bring it to court and let the attorneys challenge it, at all.

            • EnthralledObserver

              Ok – so it was a misleading headline then. The problem was not that the judge went to Google street view for info, it was that he didn’t establish that the info he found was indeed part of the facts.

            • Robert Eckert

              Apparently the first that the attorneys heard about his investigatory efforts was in his ruling.

            • Likewise, if a judge in a case involving Scientology watches Going Clear, there’s a risk that Scientology could get a judgement overturned claiming it was an influence on the judge that they never had a chance to challenge in court.

      • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

        I often tell people that a judge may be obliged to believe something and I jury may be obliged to believe that something to, but I am not. For instance, I don’t have to believe Scientology is a religion and no else (aside from the fore mentioned) has to believe it either.

  • Rita Gregory

    Then Marty is the Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky of counseling. Thanks Tony.

  • Richard

    If Scientologists really want to apply Hubbard’s 100% Standard Tech then the most honest remark they could make about Alex Gibney’s film would be “We pulled it in.”

    • Although they couldn’t, since the fault *must* be outside the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology.

    • Alex De Valera

      That’s a good one! but they can’t think that way L. Ron was never responsible or liable for anything if something went wrong with the tech, “What did you do?” it is the auditor fault or the SPs outside or a psich conspiracy. People who pull it in are outethics or PTS or both. L. Ron and the organisation cannot ever by wrong! What are your crimes? Ha ha ha

  • NOLAGirl

    Marty has come a long way. He has also put up with some of the worst harassment for speaking out. I stand beside him and Mosey and hope they continue to kick ass in court.

    *knocks* Texas Court of Appeals…anyone home??

    • Rita Gregory

      We stand with Marty!

      • NOLAGirl

        They can be our neighbors anytime. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Drat

      Let’s not forget being blindsided by indies for not toeing the line.

      • NOLAGirl

        Yeah, I loathe that. Those clowns loved Marty when he was sipping from the Hubbard fountain, but as soon as he decided it was no longer for him, they turned.

        That’s fucked up. That is not friendship. They needed someone to lead them, and Marty didn’t want the job. Personally I think he should get an award for that, they obviously don’t see it my way. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • April

          And what gives me a fit of the chuckles is that based on Marty’s deposition in the Garcia case a month or two ago, the CO$ attorney was asking a line of questions that clearly (imho) were trying to establish that Marty has been trying to set himself up as leader of the Indy movement and has plans to take over the CO$ from Dickish Midget.

          • NOLAGirl

            As if people covet his job. SCOHB is more honorable than anything David Miscavige does.

          • … which, to be fair, is exactly what many Bunkerites would have said even a year or two ago.

      • Observer

        +2 for toeing and not towing.

        • cathy from encino

          +3 for SCOHBing and not HCOSing

    • joan nieman

      M and M and Baby makes three. All the very best to them!

  • HillieOnTheBeach

    Plug for Going Clear at Science Based Medecine blog. Not a review of the documentary since the author hasn’t seen it, but a pretty comprehensive overview of scientology.

    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/scientologys-war-on-medicine/#more-35945

    • hansje brinker

      Love this quote: “Hubbard began to develop his ideas in Dianetics, a book that Nobel physicist Isidor Isaac Rabi said โ€œprobably contains more promises and less evidence per page than has any publication since the invention of printing.โ€

      • NOLAGirl

        Or as my mother put it when I asked her about reading Dianetics back in the day: A lavish waste of paper. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Robert Eckert

          My buddy used to use the phrase “unjustifiable treeslaughter”

      • Mockingbird

        This reminds me of how Chariots of the Gods has been debunked – lots of ideas no science either ! But that fiction is far less harmful than Hubbard’s insane cult doctrine ! And Hubbard always has very generous empty promises and counterfeit dreams to lure and enslave covertly ! The true “gift” that keeps on giving !

  • Sejanus

    This film will make it almost impossible for $cientology to recruit new bodies without doing it deviously and through one of the front organizations.
    That in itself will be the beauty of the fallout.

    People will still wander in to the odd Org no doubt…but the reasoning for it will be far different from what the cult wants.
    People will pop in to see how right the movie got it.
    They will go for the novelty of it, much like a side show.
    Silent snickers, gasps of disbelief and wonder over who could still be falling for it will be on their minds.
    Smarter questions will come that the minions will not be able to answer without lying.
    Those lies will be easier to detect.
    Their days are numbered.

    This will change everything and I do not think tthat is overstating it at all.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Hope so. It should be a game changer at the same level as the appearance of Anonymous or the Old Guard pickets. Will it create an effect bigger than the FBI/RCMP raids or the Time Cover? It should pull away the Scientologists who are in the Comm Course or one of the other early Scientology courses. It should stop the flow of street traffic and loved ones for a while.

      I wonder what their officials are thinking will happen? Does Miscavige, at any level, understand that Alex Gibney is right?

      All these and other questions will be answered very soon.

      • BeezleBobby

        Yes, as a long-time CoS-watcher, I believe we are witnessing the water levels rapidly rising around the cult, a flood of public entheta that Davey is not prepared for. Their response is a series of printed statements accusing anyone of pointing out the lapping waves to be lying.

        At least with protests, local orgs could get in protesters’ faces and call the cops and generally make things difficult for protesters. But they can’t call the cops on the media.

        I think a factor in all this is that so many reporters who, unlike Tony, have avoided writing critical reports on the cult, can see there’s no longer any reason to fear retribution. And as Paul Haggis pointed out, everything written is available to the entire planet instead of the local library. So you have hundreds of articles being published about the cult all at the same time because of this movie, and all of them are available to see all over the world.

        The cult will never be the same after this.

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          A microโ€“King Canute, trying to stem the rising flood waters of truth!

          • VickiStubing

            We are amused. And request a shoop.

            • ScnMonkeyNuts

              Ok, working on it… got to learn how to use online photo editor!!

      • Sejanus

        Not being funny…I do not think Miscavige has the mental capacity to know Gibney is right.
        He is and ahs been too sheltered and has never really developed any kind of a self awareness of thought. All the violence, vulgarity and general idiocy from him speaks of much more than him just being a dickhead.
        Does he have the ability to learn…who knows…it is his unwillingness to adapt in a positive way that will be his undoing.

        As time goes on and diffferent pressures surface he just becomes more of a parody of a dictator.

        As for the effect being bigger then the aforementioned raids..yes…the thing that makes it all different is the net. It was fairly easy to hide misdeeds and bad PR before the net arrived. How would someone in Spain know that TCC jumped on a couch and proclaimed super powers to Oprah…they might never know. Now..it takes a matter of hours.

        The real trick will be if the regular media will stay on top of it and keep pressure on.
        If it blows up spectacularly they will. Sex, violence, abuse, fraud…it is all there to keep it interesting for 6 o clock. Law enforcement, or public outcry on the web will push the stories.

        Their bad PR is gonna have 47x expansion…lol

        • aquaclara

          And unless Miscavige managed to sneak into a theater to see this movie, he’s probably watching it on HBO with the rest of us. It has to be killing him to not know what’s being shown.

          • EnthralledObserver

            Is there any way to check to see if there is a new (or old) HBO subscription account supplied to Davey? lol

            • joan nieman

              He probably has a satellite launched over his building.

      • Marie Claire Wolf

        Anxious as I am to see this doc, I am much more excited thinking of what will unfold in the kult in following days and weeks. It should be a truly interesting time since the press pressure on T.C., J.T. and the other celebutards will be intense. Heh, Heh rubbing my hands in anticipated delight!

      • Tracy Schmitz

        yes we NEED another time,newsweek, heck even entertainment weekly and rolling stone COVER and article about this cult! keep hammering hammering hammering non stop!

    • rom661

      My experience with people who know I was involved long ago is mostly split along two lines. The most common reaction is”Ewwww! You did that? They’re horrible”. Less common is that they’re really not familiar with it but have an instinctive aversion. The third reaction, which has only happened a couple of times, is expressing some mild interest in knowing what it’s about. They get referred to a book. A non-Scientolgy one; Usually A Piece of Blue Sky or Bare Faced Messiah. I fail to see how they pull in anyone in today’s world of the internet. If I were completely uninformed, took a personality test, etc., the first thing I would do is go home, get online and explore. I would think that would be the end of it for the vast majority. They haven’t been indoctrinated not to view entheta comments yet.

  • Observer

    I wonder how many will stop reading Marty’s blog today. He’s still got a very long road ahead. I hope he’s shaken off enough of Ron’s implanted lunacy that he can seek professional help to face the skeletons in his closet. I wish him well.

    Reposting because I posted it late yesterday:
    .

    • NOLAGirl

      Shatner for the win, always. ๐Ÿ™‚

      He really is a handsome man.

      • Sejanus

        Damn right he is…I look like him so he bloody well better be…lol
        Although I don’t wear a rug…lol

        • NOLAGirl

          Bahahahaha!!

    • Sejanus

      One of my five fave Twilight Zone episodes of which he is on two of them..yeehaw!

    • rom661

      If Marty’s comments today causes people to stop reading his blog, they might be a little dense. It’s not like he’s saying things that haven’t been discussed there for some time. Perhaps today’s statements were a little less obtuse….

    • flyonthewall

      Oohh that’s the twilight zone episode where Shatner gets addicted to this fortune telling machine in a diner. Very nice choice!

    • L. C. Spencer

      Oh wow that could not be more apropos!

    • P P

      XXXXXEEEEENNNNNUUUUUUUU!

    • splog

      I think everyone who was going to leave Marty’s blog community has already left, and they left with the big blow-up around KSW that resulted in Milestone Two. Since then there’s been a steady decline in comments, even his post about the 8 fundamental beliefs in Scn didn’t attract many comments, despite how significant a post it really is.

      He’s been posting less and less over the last few months – often 2 or 3 weeks go by without a post. I take that to mean he’s getting on with this thing called real life, caring for a family, and putting his own Scn mind-fuck behind hime.

  • Sejanus

    The remorse and self punishment Marty must put himself through has to be hell on earth for the man.
    I am glad he has moved on and stepped into the sun fully.
    With luck the court case with his wife will have a positive ending and it will set the stage for other cases to be brought agaist the cult for harassment.

  • Scientology – where one charged money to use their imagination.

    • Mrs. V.

      I couldn’t have said it better myself.

    • Helen Van Patterson Patton

      ooooh, good one. That belongs on one of Missionary Kid’s lists.

  • Jack99

    Well, I look forward to hearing from Just A Guest today, what LRH had to say about Marty Rathbun.

    • Rita Gregory

      Ha!

    • Ben Franklin

      Whenever there is a post on someone like Rinder or Marty, they always seem show up here. They just can’t help it. If it is not Just A Guest, it will be Johny, WTF.com or some other character.

    • Mrs. V.

      Oh, jeez. I could tell you what LRH said about Marty according to Just a Guest.

      • … nothing, because they never met, the closest being Marty being outside the door when LRH was talking to someone else?

        • Mrs. V.

          Actually I was thinking something like “Marty has enturbulated my beingness and now my knowingness is as-ised. He is out ethics.” Or something.

  • MrsLurksALot

    I must admit, Marty has left quite an impression on me. We’ve all watched as he turned 180 degrees away from CoS, and struggled with the fall out (not just the squirrel busters, but the mind fuck of it all.) I wish him the best, as he continues to tell the truth and deal with his karma.

    I’m outta here for the day. It’s my birthday and I’m getting ready (maybe) buy a new car. My employer is nice enough to give us the day off for our birthdays, which made me feel bad for a minute, thinking of the poor sea orgers who never get a day off, never know a simple kindness, can’t go buy a new car. My birthday wish is that they all call home, get help and blow. Not quite the pipe dream it once was, is it? G’day, friends. I’m sure by the time I return there will be a 1000+ comments. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Rita Gregory

      Happy Birthday!

    • Hey! Happy Birthday!

      • MrsLurksALot

        Thanks, Dodo. Hey, if you don’t mind, can I use that kick ass pic of Audrey you posted a while ago, as my avi? I saved it and keep thinking, damn she looks like a warrior in that pic.

        • joan nieman

          Have a great Birthday Mrs. Lurks!

        • Of course!

    • Observer

      Happy birthday!

    • shasha40

      Happy Birthday ! Have a Wonderful day ! Xoxo…

    • Sejanus

      Happy Emergence from the Vagina Day!

      I like to be different…lol

    • NOLAGirl

      Happy Birthday to a wonderful woman, that I suspect might be my half-sister. ๐Ÿ˜€ (F5)

      • MrsLurksALot

        LOL, thanks sis!

      • Zana

        Beautiful cake! Happy Birthday mrs Lurksalot.

        • Tory Christman

          Yes! I hope you’ve had a wonderful birthday, MrsLursalot ๐Ÿ™‚
          ((And oh! I <3 that cake!!))

      • Zana

        I keep checking back and this gorgeous cake comes up at the top of the screen. It’s BEAUTIFUL. Yummy. Gorgeous. A true work of art. I’m in love with that cake. !

        • NOLAGirl

          I love it too. ๐Ÿ™‚ Whoever made it has skills.

    • Sergeant Pepper

      Happy Birthday!

    • Silence of the Clams

      Happy Scientology-free birthday!

    • Peter

      And a very happy birthday from a fellow piscean who had his a bit earlier this month. It’s GOOD to be alive!

      • NOLAGirl

        Happy belated-birthday to you Peter. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Peter

          Thanks, Sweetie. It was a wonderful day and celebration without about 25-30 friends, some fairly new, one dating back to 1968. Being surrounded by so much love and friendship was a total treat. And the birthday party won’t end there. Since it’s *my* birthday, I can enjoy it as long as I wish. So I take friends out for lunch as a gift to me, make calls to distant friends who couldn’t be here, have long chats, etc. Makes life a lot richer. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • NOLAGirl

            I couldn’t be happier for you. ๐Ÿ™‚ This is what it’s about, enjoying the life we have with people we love.

            • Peter

              You could not have stated it better. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • MrsLurksALot

            Words to live by……

      • MrsLurksALot

        I’m a fire breathing ram, Aries, but happy late b-day to you!

        • Peter

          Thank you. Goddess of War!

      • villagedianne

        I hate to tell you but there was a Piscean born in 1911 who became a notorious cult leader.

      • Baby

        Happy Birthday Mr Peter.. Yay.. Yes I love being alive.. xox ( Sorry I’m late)

    • EnthralledObserver

      Happy Birthday! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Robert Eckert

      [in the voice of Don Pardo] Congratulations on your NEW CAR!!!

      • MrsLurksALot

        Thanks for the chuckle..that was v. good!

      • Anonymous

        He’s dead Jim!

    • Cupcakes for Breakfast

      Enjoy your day off- and new car! Happy Birthday!

    • Marie Claire Wolf

      And many happy others! Enjoy yourself.

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      Happy Birthday Mrs LaL! Have a great day ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Juicer77

      Happy birthday!

    • Maury Dowd

      Marty is looking good. He’s been looking less ‘rumpled.’ I noticed that on the Today Show.

      • Victoria Pandora

        He seems to have lost his “TR’s”. Has dropped the big being tough guy valence. I don’t doubt his son has been some influence on that.
        I hope they are awarded a million bazzilion $ for the harassment.
        I was never victimized by Marty (that I know of) so I have nothing to personally try to forgive him of.

        • Tory Christman

          Yup—he’s lookin’ good and I would say both his son and his wonderful wife are a big part of that, as well as stripping off the mind control he was glued into. Great job!

          A few years ago I asked Marty on his blog if Mike Rinder calling me a “Wacko” in Rolling Stone Magazine–since I’ve never met him, was it “3rd party, black PR, or a Program?” I asked that for 2 days. The 3rd day Marty sent me a big surprise, called: “For Your Eyes Only”.
          It’s a 25 step program to “muzzle Tory”. (That worked, didn’t it?) ๐Ÿ™‚ It had 3 goals: 1) Slime me on the Net 2) Slime me with the media 3) Get me fired from my job.

          I greatly thank he and Mike Rinder for getting it to me (“For Your Eyes Only)! ๐Ÿ™‚ They’ve both come a long way, baby! It’s been great to see…and truly….has been a learning experience for many of us.

          Here it is, for anyone who missed it. It’s quite educational:
          https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/radical-scientology-dark-ops/

      • Unex Skcus

        Post Miscavige Stress Disorder” – I like that! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • rom661

      Happy Birthday. I’m not sure buying a car would be a joyous way to spend the day, at least for me, but if so, I hope your dealings are pleasant.

    • Anonymous

      There is a post at Marty’s site titled “The Active Ingredient in Scientology” where he elaborates on (and links to) today’s story by Tony. Embedded within that post on Marty’s site is a further link to a recorded interview with Marty on SiriousXM radio: https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/the-active-ingredient-in-scientology/.

      Marty’s comments in Tony’s story describe Marty’s thoughts about Scientology today, but it seems that he has one enduring trait from that subject, which is the desire to be right…all the time…even to include rewriting history to put the fact-checkable past into an utterly different light based on more recent events. This trained-in habit lessens the credibility of the newer version of “history” because injecting the new explanation into the old events just does not ring true to interested observers.

      In any case, Marty’s contribution to the deconstruction of Scientology has been invaluable because it happened (and is still happening) in public, in real-time. His exit from the Prison of Belief is a useful model (and predictor) for the exit of others. His (carefully calibrated) story is both educational and admonishing.

      • MrsLurksALot

        Thank you for sharing this.

      • Lady Squash

        Dear Anonymous, Rathbun’s apparent contradiction–Scientology auditing vs “repairs” is very understandable. It is hard to explain but as you leave and learn more about other healing traditions you realize or perhaps I should say, that I realized that whatever “Scientology” I did that seemed to work, came from some other tradition. So what I used to think of as doing Scientology, I stopped viewing that way.
        That said, the residual “attack dog” mentality is unfortunate. Scientology is a very judgmental practice and this breeds a confrontational style of communicating. It’s a hard one to unlearn.

        • Anonymous

          Looked at in a broader context as you propose could put Marty’s remarks in a different light, however the word “repair” (as you know) has a very specialized meaning in Scientology tech. It is clear though from Marty’s two blog’s that he was offering much more than just “repairs” and he did hold himself out to be an expert in Scientology tech…regardless of the true origins of that tech.

          On balance, I very much support Marty and his efforts to defang Scientology by exposing its secrets and taking on the worst they can throw at him. He’s done a great amount of excellent work since leaving the church and he has suffered because of it.

    • Mrs. V.

      Happy Birthday!

    • Pepper

      Marty impresses me too with his evolvement in life. Something we all need to be doing to become who we are supposed to be and to experience life in the fullest.

      I also wish for all Sea Org members to “blow” and live the life they deserve to have No one deserves the Sea Org.

      Happy B-Day MrsLurksALot! Best wishes to you.

    • Jgg2012

      Remember when Marty was calling himself the Martin Luther of Scientology, planning to remove Miscavige, return to Gold Base and fix everything that was wrong with it?

      • MrsLurksALot

        How times have changed….

    • Just Dee

      Busy as hell the past few weeks. I can’t keep up either. Happy birthday! Hope you get a great car

    • Free Minds, Free Hearts

      Happy Birthday! And a new car!

    • Unex Skcus

      Happy Birthday. Mrs LAL – and I truly hope your wish comes true! (… and enjoy the new car)

    • Baby

      Oh Holly ..Happy birthday my sweet sweet woman. I love your posts..and ohhhhhhh la la..another avi..love it.. A new car.. What a fabulous birthday wish.. xoxo love baby

      and a New Car? Now that is what I call a Birthday ..

      • MrsLurksALot

        It was a wonderful day, thanks! New avi, new car, new year!

        • Baby

          Well Hol… You deserve every bit of it.. xox I’m happy for you!

    • Nancy Law

      Happy Birthday, MrsLurksALot !

  • God bless Marty for coming to that conclusion – there is nothing redeeming in $cientology unless Hubbard got it from some place else, and then it isn’t $cientology, it’s something else being called $cientology. I hope those Ron-worshipping indies read this and go find another way to make a living.

    • Peter

      I’ve noted repeatedly on this and Marty’s blog that any wins/gains ever made in scio do NOT belong to Hubbard, the auditor, the C/S or anyone else. They belong and were created by the individual being audited, that tough heroic individual who was willing to throw caution to the winds, jump in and dig out the tough stuff. We pretty much all have some of that and getting rid of it, no matter the technique used, is no piece of cake (caek?). My hat is off to all who’ve ever done so, who became better people because of the effort. Marty is a big case in point. So is Mike. And many of thousands of others, going back to the 50s.

      • Zana

        Yes!

      • I could not agree with you more, Peter. Once I figured that out, no cover-up ruse by Hubbard made any sense to me. In reading Lucifer’s Bridge by George M. Witek this week, about the original insane OT8 materials, I saw that even the “biggest carrot” offered to $cientology donkeys was derived from Aleister Crowley, just as OT came from Crowley’s OTO.

        • The academic, Hugh Urban has also explored the connection between Hubbard and Crowley’s ideas in a paper which you can read an download here https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/scientology-and-magick-a-realistic-assessment/

          • Thanks for that. The crazy thing is, back in the day when Yvonne Jentzsch would recite “The Golden Dawn” at Celebrity Centre on 8th Street in L.A. and perform it, we had no way (and little way of finding out) that this was a piece inspired by Crowley and his OTO. What a bunch of high-flown bullshit intended to enslave people’s minds. Yvonne was enough of a “true believer” I don’t think she had a clue. And she also very much loved being a bit of a celebrity, sort of a $cientology Julie Andrews. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJesH6ff1xM

    • joan nieman

      Marty’s admittance to the deceitful religion is a shining example to those doubting right now, and there must be many. To take that Quantum Leap and come out in the light where truth is revealed.is a great accomplishment.

      • “Truth Revealed” hahaha! If you read Witek’s “Lucifer’s Bridge” he does a very good analytical breakdown of everything that went into and led up to the much vaunted OT8 and how utterly insane it was in its original form. Anyone one with any sense left would walk the fuck away from $cientology after that. Some didn’t and ended up dead. My old friend Ray Mithoff (who was a fun guy back in the day) is now rotting in The Hole, how viciously ironic. Just maybe OT8 is what send Lil Davey – a Hubbard true believer if ever there was one – over the edge. The deeper you fall into $cientology, the bigger the mindfuck it is. I’m impressed that Rathbun managed to extract himself and continues to sanity-ize his thinking.

    • Lionel Drinkwater

      In other words it’s the old, “Hubbard was both good and original. Unfortunately, that which was original is not good and that which is good is not original.”

      • About the time he came out with probably the worst record album since Tiny Tim (I won’t assault you with the YouTube of “Thank You For Listening” in his own voice) he said while having the name Arp Cola on the whole track he invented music. I think he misunderstood and it was Urp Cola and he invented indigestion, but I digress. I’m not sure he was original on anything. He aspired to be the legendary original liar, Satan, but he failed at that, too, because his hero Crowley claimed that title and though Elwrong thought the mantle could be passed on when Crowley cacked, I doubt Alastair would let it go that easy, because obviously Alastair as a first name trumps the name of Lafayette.

  • KNMF

    In the radio interview with Marty, posted here by somebody last night, the host was wowed by the amount of reading Marty had done. Hubbard can’t stand side by side with sincere philosophers and good writers. Especially over time, Ron doesn’t win the Pepsi challenge. Hubbard needed exclusivity, immersion and a pressuring system to fortify the notion that he’s special. His writing and thinking just can’t hang.
    Like; “survival” duh. Big whoop. What we have in common with the noble maggot.

  • shasha40

    That NY Times article shows just how many journalists out there won’t take the time to do research before they write an article . I wish they’d start getting a clue and read the Encyclopedia TonyO for all things Scientology . As for Marty , I understand he has helped hurt others , but I believe he is seeing the light and attempting to right some wrongs while he is trying to find his way fully out of the mind f#ck that is CoS . Good Luck , Marty ,Mosey and baby . ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Richard Grant

      Well in fairness to the NYT (not the reviewer), this was a film review and not a news article. Otherwise the Times would, I should hope, have given it a more thorough editorial review before clearing it for publication.

      Reviewers in theory are just taking a hard look at this particular film (or book or play or whatever). Dargas got out of her depth by going beyond that purview and trying to show off her broader knowledge of one of the film’s subjects — and unfortunately what she “knew” was absolutely wrong.

      • shasha40

        Exactly ! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • IL Luminacca

    Why Scientologyโ€™s Cone of Silence Shattered…..in the Daily Beast today

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/25/why-scientology-s-cone-of-silence-shattered.html

    • outraged

      great photo:

      • KNMF

        Scientology article and that excellent pic, followed by a piece on ISIS.

        Miscavige is helpless to stop what’s coming. This party is just getting started.

        • NOLAGirl

          How much of a Seinfeld fan are you KNMF? Enough for this to make sense?: Popcorn Baby…Popcorn!! ๐Ÿ™‚

          (from Kramer’s “Pig-man Baby…Pig-man!!”)

          • KNMF

            Miscavige is down below and we’re about to push this giant ball of oil out the window.

            • NOLAGirl

              *laughcry*

              Yay! I was hoping you were a fan. ๐Ÿ™‚

            • KNMF

              I’d hesitate to trust those who aren’t.

    • giggler

      Great article, gets worse and worse for the criminal organization

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      โ€œThe Church does not hire private investigators to follow journalists.โ€

      An acceptable truth: the cos hires intermediairies who hire the PIs.

      • Eileen

        The IAS is separate (in their minds) from the CHurch.

      • splog

        Ummm yeah, like I don’t eat pork (my mouth does), and I don’t wheelie my bike (the engine does) and the boss doesn’t fire people (head of HR does) ….

    • Observer

      โ€œEven The Daily Beast knows we do not โ€˜harassโ€™ the media,โ€ Scientology spokeswoman Karin Pouw wrote in response to a list of questions submitted by The Daily Beast. โ€œThis is a myth spread by those who produce one-sided hatchet jobs like Alex Gibney [Academy Award-winning director of the HBO documentary Going Clear] and Lawrence Wright did, but whine when we exercise free speech by pointing out their bias and shoddy methods.โ€

      “Karin” isn’t paying attention. I haven’t heard Alex Gibney whining about anything; on the contrary, he’s been thanking Scientology for its efforts.

      • Rita Gregory

        Once again they accuse their “enemies” of doing what they themselves do.

      • L. C. Spencer

        โ€œEven The Daily Beast knows we do not โ€˜harassโ€™ the media,โ€ Scientology spokeswoman Karin Pouw wrote in response to a list of questions submitted by The Daily Beast. โ€œThis is a myth spread by those whom we have harassed.โ€

        FTFY Karin.

    • BeezleBobby

      Good stuff.

      “The church [is] losing its grip on the public narrative it once aggressively controlled.”
      That sums it up rather nicely.

    • Dale A.

      Best title ever. Mel Brooks wrote the script for Get Smart, and I wish he’d do a send up on Scientology.

      • Peggy oh!

        Did you see Carl Reiner’s tweet the other day after seeing Gong Clear? Beautiful. It would be fun if it inspired those two to do a short Schtick on it!

        • Dale A.

          No, wish I had. Carl Reiner is one of my favorites. I don’t know anything about twitter, except what others copy and paste, which I enjoy, but I otherwise miss out on that whole domain.

          • Peggy oh!

            Here ya go ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Dale A.

              Thanks Peggy!

            • Peggy oh!

              Sure!

  • BosonStark

    Although it is getting a little hair splitting to say Marty was not doing Scientology auditing, I can go along with that view because not only did Hubbard draw from so many different sources, but Scientology itself claims to be all-encompassing (and like Tarvuism, all non-encompassing), all the answers, and would like to trademark “freedom” and “happiness” if they could get away with it. So from Scientology’s standpoint, it’s pretty hard to even “survive,” without it being Scientology-related. It’s chocolate. It’s paperclips. It’s life. They think it will be the law one day, to be a Scientologist.

    • Richard Grant

      Yeah, I agree with this. I do think it’s fair to say, though, that Marty *did think* he was doing standard LRH auditing at the time he was doing it. It kinda seems like, as his world view has changed, he’s redefined some key terms to go along with it.

      • SciWatcher

        Absolutely. I also think that Marty has a very hard time admitting he was wrong, and this is a way of justifying his actions.

        • Juicer77

          He’s not saying it in these exact words, but there is a distinct undercurrent of, “How could I fall for this crap?”

          • splog

            Same way we all did, we got suckered in one sentence at a time

            • Juicer77

              Just to clarify: I don’t believe Marty was gullible or stupid or careless. He had deeply held beliefs that made sense to him at the time. As you say, the involvement develops.

        • Dale A.

          It kind of bothered me when I heard Marty say others “followed my lead.” This diminishes what others did, and I don’t think it is true. Things often happen simultaneously in different people, and what one person does may have nothing to do with what someone else does.

          Maybe those words don’t mean to him what they sounded like to me.

      • It’s hard to measure something when your yardsticks keep changing.

        • BosonStark

          Marty thought Scientology was one thing, but it turned out to be something else. I had no idea he would grow to the point he has, but I was really pleased when he started being interested in other books and ideas to the point where he was promoting them to others. At first he thought these fit into Scientology but eventually he saw them as superior, especially when taken collectively.

          One of the big signs of being free from Scientology has go to be feeling of freedom to read anything, and realizing that you’ve missed a lot by concentrating on Ron’s ideas.

          • Rita Gregory

            As well as finding out the best of Ron’s ideas weren’t Ron’s ideas, but stolen from others.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      There have claimed 15 million Scientologists. Kirstie Alley claims 10s of millions. But Paul Haggis was not one of them.

  • EnthralledObserver

    I still have mixed feelings about Marty.
    Still some mistrust, still some wondering if he’s holding some crucial information back that might just get him in too much trouble to reveal without personal risk, still feel put out by his seemingly smug and arrogant manner. Still pissed he blocked me from commenting on his blog from time to time for ‘name calling’ LRonny even though Miscavige was treated to all kinds of names by Marty and other commentators (hypocrite), and still unsure why he seems to refuse to address the issue of apologising to Jon Atack and some other old time critics.
    I do really like what I’ve seen of his wife though – and will support her until the end in her fight against the bullying cult.
    So, I guess, by default he has my support as an extension of his wife, but until I have the assurances of many exes that he’s fully come clean about his role and shared every ounce of information he may have I will hold off on showing my reverence of him.
    Marty himself has admitted he doesn’t always think of things he knows from his time in $cientology until someone asks him about it, and that’s fine, I can understand that… so I hope that people keep asking him questions until the full truth is revealed!
    Oh, and Marty (and Claire Headley too) – fuck the bullshit and supposed ‘confidentiality’ of auditing and just unburden Tom Cruise already – you’d actually be doing him the greatest of favours in the long run.

    • Still_On_Your_Side

      EO, if Tom Cruise’s auditing “confession” is revealed by Marty or Claire, won’t that by inference condone Miscavige’s mis-use of confidential information against his “enemies”? I am glad that Cruise’s confidential info is not being disclosed by his former auditors because I think Miscavige’s “leaks” are filthy breaches of penitent-priest confidentiality, and I would hate to see any ex stooping to his subterranean level of conduct.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Technically you are right, it is very ethical of Marty and Claire to keep TC’s secrets, but we all know there is a very good chance TC is being held to ransom because of them.
        Heaven knows JT would benefit from someone stealing his folder and finally airing it all.

        And besides – I just want to know, ’cause I’m a sticky beak. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • Sejanus

          Yeah the move would be for Cruise to disclose and spin it his own way in a preemptive strike.
          If he is gay or whatever…say so..if bisexual…say he has a lot of love and is not burdened by gender limitations or something.
          Eventually it is going to get out….and it will be a nightmare for him if he is not controlling the spill valve himself.

          • VickiStubing

            One thing to consider is that he is mindf**ked to believe that even satisfying himself is a bad thing, thinking about anything sexual is a bad thing. It doesn’t have to be something so dramatic as having a 3-some or being bisexual; Blubtard made everything sexual B-A-D. I doubt there is anything truly shocking in TC’s folder. And I don’t think the world would be so shocked at what is lurking in JT’s, either.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              mindf#” iked indeed! i was just thinking, cruise divorced or that is was divorced BY holmes what 3 years ago?! he hasn’t gone on a date much less done anything else “cough cough” for 3 years now! i’m just saying.. you mentioned you doubt there is anything truly shocking in either cruise’s or travolta’s folders, i guess “shocking” would be up for interpretation by the masses.. however, i will say that the WHOLE secrecy and the underlying “perhaps they are being blackmailed and that is why they stay in and don’t speak out” and so on PUT OUT THERE by others from devocht to headley to even rathbun ” i will never disclose what mr.cruise told me in his audits” MAKES the natural thought process conclusion that there IS and ARE shocking information in their audits! not only because we can’t believe that celebs do this (telling their secrets to a auditor) but the whole we can’t believe they don’t know or believe all the bad stuff is going on. therefore this lends “credence” to it’s all about their audit information and what’s in them.

              EVENTUALLY somehow, someday whether on purpose or not the information WILL get out there! Meanwhile, if some are going to “hint hint” about secrets in audit information about these celebs, they should either STOP hinting (shoudn’t have hinted at all) or they should at least say something like ” there is secret information so and so would not want to be made public, however, i can confirm there is NO such and such involved” END OF STORY.

          • Tracy Schmitz

            TRUE! nowadays in the 21st century EVERYTHING gets out eventually whether on purpose or not especially if one is not only famous but globally super famous like cruise is.

          • Peggy oh!

            Tom Cruise, IMO is the human equivilent of Hubbards buried in the mountain archive, but a mountain of SHAME. Shame often can be felt over what to us are very innocuous things.

            That may be what DeMon laughed at. His intensity of shame over stupid shit.

            Watch that old Rona Barrett interview. This guy needed therapy, not scientology.

            • Sejanus

              Agreed

        • Tracy Schmitz

          I JUST FIND IT SO DARN weird and unbelievable, and i always will! the idea that super famous celebs spill out EVERYTHING including their intimacies, fantasies, thoughts to some auditor, see that auditor write what they say down for a permanent safe keeping file and doing this FOR YEARS! if i was a famous person, the VERY FIRST TIME i would be asked sexual questions from “MY RELIGION!” i would be utterly shocked, weirded out and disgusted i would get up and leave the building never to return! heck, even if i was a joe blow nobody off the street i would act this way, much less if i was famous! EVERY SINGLE person who i have told (that knows nothing about scientology) what goes on in a audit and the questioning and the keeping of the information has the same reaction! one big WTH and WTF! who would do this? much less a famous person!

          • Dale A.

            Most celebrities dance around private questions, and then they can’t stop. I have heard a few say “that’s a private matter” and that ends it. It’s hard to learn how to say “no” (“no thanks”) in different situations.

          • Peggy oh!

            But think of the relief it might feel to finally have someone to trust and unburden to. Remember they trust scientology and they live in a workd where they can’t go anywhere without paparazzi and articles about their every life detail. Some of it us PR so bullshit, some of it is rumor so bullshit. Everyone wanting your secrets for prurient needs and you become completely isolated as a human being. So scientology comes in an offers an ear to those who can’t confide in ANYONE.

            It’s evil.

            • Tracy Schmitz

              your a famous celeb and you can’t confide in ANYONE?! not a husband, not a wife, mother, father, sibling, long time friend,etcetera? really? i’m sorry that defies believeability to me. so instead your going to confide in ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING to some auditor you don’t even know! not a friend, not a family member, not a loved one?” but hey, this person MUST be a good decent “stranger” because hey they work for my religion!” really?! and this auditor is going to ask you PLAINLY none of their business (or anyone’s business) much less a so called “religion’s” business questions and you then see them writing this stuff down in front of you for a permanent file of “safekeeping”… TOTALLY DOES NOT MAKE ANY LOGICAL SENSE! a person who is truly lost, has no family, no friends, no work, i can see, NO ONE ELSE THOUGH…

            • Peggy oh!

              Nothing makes sense about joining a cult! You can’t make sense of this. For the ones who get in before they become famous, Hollywood is an extremely lonely town. Then when you hit it big-like Cruise or a Travolta did, it is big and overwhelming and makes you even more isolated. Who to trust? They may feel I just got everything I wanted, why is it not making me happy?

              And boy will scientology capitalize on separating you from people who you might trust.

              There are a ton of reasons why scientology is set up to work well on performers.

        • Dale A.

          It’s not about being ethical, it’s a practical matter. If you reveal someone else’s dirt, for no reason except to reveal it, no shower will ever remove their dirt from your skin. It will be there forever.

          • Mrs. V.

            Yes. When someone tells you their deepest, darkest secrets (weather real or make-believe) it is very bad form to go public with it. Now, encouraging them to come forward themselves, that’s a different thing all together.

        • Peggy oh!

          I really don’t think TC is held in by fear. He’s a zeolot. A true believer. I also believe if any info was leaked either by Miscavige or Marty it’d push him further in to the church.(he’d never believe Miscavige did it)

          He does not care about the public or his career as much as he cares about Scientology. His going back into a low profile I think to him is an acceptable truth, ie lie.

          If he lies he gets to keep up a fan base that he thinks ultimately helps scientology.

          Going clear won’t allow that wiggle room for him anymore and my bet is he throws off all Hollywood protections and goes all in on scientology.

          Only if Miscavige blames him for the fallout on going clear, and how cruise handles it, and turns on mi’m is there hope for a crack of light for cruise…

      • Tracy Schmitz

        i’m wondering if marty has told ANYONE the cruise audit information (i.e. tony ortega and others)?.. i wonder just HOW MANY people know what’s in them? marty and claire, and of course miscavige but who else?

        • Mrs. V.

          I sincerely hope not.

      • ze moo

        If the release of any pc folder material were tied to anyone, the lawyers will come out in full metal jackets. Law suits galore would greet any ‘whistle blower’. Using third parties and cutouts would only prolong the fight.

        TC would go ballistic and pay any amount to find the leaker. No, keeping his and anyone else pc folder info private is the only legal and safe way to go. Just knowing that such info could be leaked should sound alarm bells for any clam. Oh wait, those blinder have ear muffs too.

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Unless stating what Cruise has done would solve a murder or kidnapping, I can live with the Headleys staying quiet.

      I have not followed Marty closely. I think he has done a lot to bring down Scientology and, at times, at great risk to himself. He may be keeping secrets that would harm him or make people look down on him. If so, I hope he has great regret and that his views continue to evolve.

    • Couch_Incident

      Honest question: When Marty was doing his counseling in Ingleside, were his clients hooked up to the e-meter?

      • SciWatcher

        Yes, I think they were.

      • EnthralledObserver

        I assumed they were – Marty was the one to demonstrate the device to Sweeney in his BBC doco.
        Another question – did Marty keep folders on anyone? (I doubt it given what we’ve just learned about what he was doing, but it’s still worth asking)

    • Ben Franklin

      I don’t think releasing information about Tom Cruise sex life will help anyone. His sex life has nothing to do with helping victims of Scientology. Just an embarrassment for Tom Cruise and his family, and that’s pretty much it.

      • EnthralledObserver

        It would help my impatience…
        And maybe help TC make a break for it if it turns out he’s reluctant given what Miscavige might do with his confessions.
        But are his confessions all sexual anyway? Maybe there is other types of confessions worthy of airing.

        • Ben Franklin

          I hear you EO. My concern has always been that, if TC sex life was to be paraded in public, his family, especially, his children would be adversely affected. If there was anything damaging in Tom Cruise confessions, I think they would have been revealed by now.

    • SciWatcher

      I feel this way about Marty, too. He’s always had that air of arrogance, of being unable to admit he was wrong. I think that’s just who he is, probably nothing to do with Scientology. Very different than someone like Mike Rinder. That’s why it’s been so interesting to watch the transformation of his thought processes. Saying now he wasn’t actually doing Scientology auditing is a way of justifying himself, another way of not admitting he was wrong.

      • EnthralledObserver

        Agree. It seemed very convenient for Marty to admit that it wasn’t $cientology he was doing after all.

  • Sejanus

    Just read the New York Times article referenced by Tony.
    The author seems to miss the point rather spectacularly about the film.

    It is a documentary…yet at some points compares to the fictional story and film The Master.
    Also the misinformation about Marty still being enamoured of Hubbard…pretty sloppy writing.
    Missing the concept of why mention the celebs in it..well duh….easily identifiable and high profile people who should be made to account as they are cult shills.

    Needless to say I am not a fan of the NY Times piece by Dargas.

    • NOLAGirl

      You were not alone in your disappointment. I can stand a bad review, hers was just blind ignorance.

      • Graham

        Some good responses in the ‘comments’ though.

        • Richard Grant

          Graham — Oh good, I’ll have to take a look. NYT comments can be pretty interesting sometimes.

          NOLA-G, I agree.

          Sejanus, I think you’ve summed my feelings very nicely. This *is* pretty sloppy writing, and I’m glad Dargas has been called out on it.

        • Sejanus

          I could not get comments to display…nerts.

          • Graham

            On my screen ‘latest comments’ appear on the right hand side. Part way down on the left is a speech bubble saying “188 comments”. When I click on that the comments on the right become more prominent and I can see all of them. That’s on a lap-top.

          • Graham

            This comment got the most up-votes:

            Penelope Villa

            California 12 days ago

            “Mr. Gibney, who enters swinging and keeps on swinging, comes across as less interested in understanding Scientology than in exposing its secrets, which makes for a lively and watchable documentary if not an especially enlightening one.”

            Have you considered the possibility that there is nothing at the core of this “religion” to understand or be enlightened about?

            • madame duran

              *wonders if Penelope Villa is related to Joy Villa…or has a brother named Vanilla*

            • One Human

              Auntie is Inna Goda D. Villa.

            • Rita Gregory

              Penelope is our Nat.

            • shasha40

              Yay, Penelope/ Nat !

      • Sejanus

        Very much so.
        I have learned how careless a lot of movie reviewers can be.
        It drivess me crazy because when I did reviews for the radio network I made bloody certain I was on the beam.
        One of the worst examples of slip shod happened from Roger Ebert oddly.
        He was reviewing Team America World Police.
        In the review he referenced “Dick Cheney” appearing in the film and dropped in a shark tank for no good reason. He missed it totally..it was Hans Blix UN weapons inspector shark tanked to keep him from finding Kim Jong Il’s WMD’s…a small thing…maybe..but it showed he slept through the film.
        After that I looked at his work more closely and found more errors than I care to describe.
        It broke my heart actually.

      • Sibs

        She reminds me of some of my old crit studies classmates and not in a good way. Overly pretentious and missing the point.

    • Dale A.

      That was a frustrating review, partly because of how obviously intelligent the author is. That made her failure to understand what a documentary is, what the constraints of any film are, and to appreciate the sheer difficulty of the subject matter all the more reprehensible.

      Saying that GIbney didn’t fully explain why participants made the choices they made, and then stating that Gibney could have brought more compassion to the subject matter? I think allowing someone to tell their own story to the extent that they can and without interference IS compassion.

      Comparing Gibney to Lawrence Wright? These are 2 different people. This is the classic film reviewer tactic; “the subject matter was A, and it should have been B.” Well “B” is a different film.

      I think she ought to reflect on the deficiencies of her own review from the angle of the constraints she herself has to work with in order to get the review out. That reflection should address some of her own points.

  • SciWatcher

    I mentioned this about Marty just yesterday in a comment. It really has been fascinating over the years, watching him go through this process. Others have done the same thing, but Marty was blogging about his beliefs as he read and learned new things, and it was in that way possible to watch the evolution of his thought processes.

  • So, Marty was an exit councillor all along – who’d have thunk it?!?

    Seriously, the change has been quite something to observe. I’m glad Marty turned in this direction, and I hope many people in – or recently out of – the grasps of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology take a long honest look at what they were doing in. As Rick Ross commented yesterday, not all ex-victims take the time to make a scrupulous study of the whole $cientology subject.

    • Sibs

      I think Marty has so much more that he’s had to make up for, facing the realization that he gave so much of his life to this fraud AND atoning for the abundance of hurt he caused while he was DM’s sidekick. Yes, I suppose he could’ve taken the easy way and not tried to take responsibility (kinda like that Scilon ex-lawyer whose book Tony reviewed recently). But I don’t think he could ever fully assuage his guilt without making a close examination of the cult that sucked him in.

  • Eivol Ekdal

    I am reminded of Ed Walter testimony in 1982, Deja Vu.
    Q: “Can Scientology succeed if they no longer use the enemies list, attack the attacker, and all these things we have seen in the documents?”
    A: “But then you wouldn’t have Scientology.
    “You would have to rewrite almost 80% of Scientology policy and probably 70% of the tech.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQvvgPQJJCA&t=7825

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Tidbits
      -About 5 minutes prior to this he talks about harassment from Don Cooper.
      (Likely to be the “DB Cooper” Hana mentions following her in her video testimony)
      – Ed gives an excellent summation at the end of this video with a direct appeal to the still alive leader in hiding.

      • I believe he also mentions the Ministers Mockup checklist st some point. Unfortunately, I don’t think a copy of that has ever surfaced.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          These video copies are so poor, it’s almost like someone got close to the tapes with a degausser.

          • Missionary Kid

            It could also be the result of many generations of copies,couldn’t it?

  • Ella Raitch
    • Robert Eckert
    • Juicer77

      Must…tweak…tiny…toes

      • One Human

        I can hear the giggles!

      • shasha40

        Must pinch cheeks …lightly . ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Free Minds, Free Hearts

          Must kiss softly on the top of the head!

          • shasha40

            I want to pinch …. Lightly. ! Lol : )

      • Mrs. V.

        Love baby toes!

    • Draco

      The power of babies! I have never seen that particular expression on Marty’s face before. He looks so happy!

    • VickiStubing

      Moar babies!!

      • shasha40

        Omg , he’s adorable ! Those cheeks, that face , both faces ! Yep, that’s what happy in life looks like .

    • One Human

      Sweeet!
      What the EP for leaving LRH Inc. looks like.
      I am stunned by the tenderness you see in Marty’s eyes!

    • Mockingbird

      Fleet Admiral David Miscavige orders both of you to the nearest RPF for immediate permanent enrollment !!!!

    • Mockingbird

      What a cute kid !

    • Peggy oh!

      Gosh compare the smiles here to pics of $cientologists smiling. A picture is worth a thousand words!

      As well, it’s so interesting the difference in goals. Children and families. Warmth and friends. Uncertainty over certainty.

      Then scroll back on any page of Tony’s blog for the social media pics and ick. Materialism of the grossest nature. Tying so hard to be “cool” coolness over love…

      Thanks for the links!

  • Sunny

    They can try to say that disconnection is a personal choice, but guess what? When there is a person named as an SP by the church, and you still want to be in the church, you will sit in the “ethics department” until you decide to disconnect by your own personal choice. I guess in a sense it IS a personal choice…. because you either disconnect, or SIT IN ETHICS FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE or GET SP DECLARED YOURSELF FOR REFUSING TO DISCONNECT.
    Personal choice my ass.

    • splog

      Sophia’s choice, that’s what it is

  • Fred G. Haseney

    Re: “… we were fairly stunned at what we think is one of the two or three most remarkable moments in Going Clear…”

    I hate to disagree with Tony Ortega (after all, he is the reason I’m no longer a Bubble Dweller), but there weren’t “two or three most remarkable moments” in Alex Gibney’s Going Clear. There are dozens, if not many dozens, hundreds, perhaps thousands of moments of pure enlightenment, delight and exposure mixed with unforgettable heartbreak.

    When the movie ended, I couldn’t figure out where the last two hours had gone.

    Everyone in the movie spoke not just “on screen,” they didn’t just deliver their lines, they spoke directly to me and to the audience. To a Bubble Dweller (or one who has only recently escaped their clutches), Going Clear can be the best auditing session outside of Scientology Inc. The movie continues to help escapees peel the onion. Exposing the truth and grim reality behind what other Scientologists did in their attempt to help L. Ron Hubbard “free mankind” and “clear the planet,” is noting short of astonishing.

    The Alex Gibey/HBO Documentary Films Going Clear: Scientology & the Prison of Belief and Lawrence Wright’s Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood & the Prison of Belief are Mr. Gibney’s and Mr. Wright’s gift to mankind.

    Now, let’s make ’em proud!

    • Eileen

      How did Tony reach you in the bubble?

      • Fred G. Haseney

        Hi, Eileen, thanks for asking me about how Tony Ortega managed to reach me as a “Bubble Dweller,” a “clam,” a “still-in.”

        I’d been in Scientology since 1977; the ever-increasing cost of Scientology (especially auditing), priced me right out of the ball park. I worked very hard for a couple of decades with Scientologyโ€”in the Sea Org (American St. Hill Organization, the Freewinds, other PAC Base Organizations) and the Office of Special Affairs U.S. as well as Scientology Front Groups (Sterling Management Systems, Management Success, Narconon, Applied Scholastics, Peter Gillham’s Nutritional Center in Florida, Atlas Natural Foods in Atwater, California, etc.), but no matter how hard I worked, I couldn’t get my next auditing actions paid for (those actions included OT 1, 2 and 3… so maybe not being able to pay for those Levels worked to my benefit). But I didn’t know then what I know now.

        In recent years, I tried to stay involved by buying the Basics Book package (from eBay), and doing one of those courses. I also got little bit of auditing, and that’s when I discovered that someone had changed the definition of a “Floating Needle,” or an F/N, but that didn’t even poke a hole in the bubble.

        In August 2014, however, Mary Sue Hubbard’s dog died and it became news. Why? Apparently, MSH died eleven years ago, but she didn’t leave her house in the Los Feliz District of Los Angeles to her surviving children; instead, she left it to her dog. Her DOG. MSH’s will stipulated that the dog could live there (with servants, I guess) for as long as it lived. Well, I wanted to walk by her house as I live nearby, so I Google “Mary Sue Hubbard” and “Los Feliz” for her address.

        For as long as there’s been an Internet, Scientology Inc. has warned me about going on the Net; stay away, I’ve been told, because if you search for anything on the Internet that has to do with “Scientology,” all you’ll get is the garbage that Suppressive People say or write about Scientology. Being the perfect Bubble Dweller, I did exactly as David Miscavige said to do (although I did cheat a couple of times, but never stayed around long enough to see the bad stuff I’d been warned I’d find).

        Imagine my surprise when I Googled “Mary Sue Hubbard” and “Los Feliz”: I clicked on the first item that came on Google’s results screen and tumbled head first into the Underground Bunker!

        I couldn’t believe my eyes! From Tony Ortega’s blog, I zoomed over to Mike Rinder’s blog, then dashed to Marty Rathbun’s blog. Then I found Karen de La Carriere and her husband through YouTube. Not to mention the Angry Gay Pope, who I had the benefit of seeing Alex Gibney’s Going Clear with.

        The more I read, the more I listened and watched, I realized that David Miscavige (er, I mean, “Four Feet Thirteen,” or “FFT”) has been systematically removing people who’ve worked with or trained under L. Ron Hubbard. I’ve never actually seen the Hole, but I don’t doubt its existence. I mean, come on, some of the top of Scientology (Rathbun, Rinder, etc.) are no longer in Scientology and are speaking against it.

        It took a couple of months of staying completely away from any contact with Scientology Inc., as well as daily reading and educating on what Scientology Inc. has done to actually mess the planet up, not to mention the suffering that I witnessed while I staff, and for what? So we could “Clear the planet?”

        I had some great wins in Scientology but through the “re-education” from Tony’s blog and others, I’ve come to realize that L. Ron Hubbard did a fair share of lying; he may even have dabbled in Black Magic to conjure up the very auditing process that I remember have great wins from.

        So while I regroup, I’m in total support of replacing FFT and seeing what I can do to reconnect all the friends, family and loved ones that Scientology Inc. has meddled with. I’m all for doing away with all Suppressive Persons orders, and I want anything that anyone has ever signed with Scientology Inc. to become Null and Void. This is not to say that I’m against those steps and actions that brought me happiness while in the Bubble, but I want to set people free and stop the abuse, the bullying, the suppressive acts that FFT is accused of.

        • Bavarian Rage

          Thanks for taking the time to write your fascinating personal account. Can’t believe how far you’ve come in just 6 months. And so unique a story – that’s the first time I’ve heard of MSH’s dog saving someone from the abyss. Yay doggie!

          • Fred G. Haseney

            Re: Yay doggie!

            Thank you, Bavarian Rage, for your well-received acknowledgment. I had a little “assistance” in my re-education and transition; have you seen:

            https://jennyatlax.wordpress.com/

  • BosonStark

    Do you like music? Well, Ron invented music. Pay up!

    • EnthralledObserver

      I’m going to state the obvious… we have a doppelganger in our midst. I have to say, as an artist who respects creativity and intellectual property I am absolutely disgusted at how much you have copied LRH!

  • MaxSpaceman

    IL Luminacca posted a Daily Beast story, downthread, on the documentary Going Clear. This short description of Paulette Cooper’s backstory is stunning. Looks like when Tony O’s book comes out, there will be a world-wide interest in it, and will get huge coverage from media everywhere. Can’t wait!

    Jacob Siegel, Daily Beast: “In 1970, Paulette Cooper, a Harvard graduate in comparative religion with a masterโ€™s degree in psychology, began publishing work about Scientology. Whenโ€™s her book The Scandal of Scientology came out in 1971, it drew the churchโ€™s attention.

    “Internal Scientology documents (revealed in later court documents) described the churchโ€™s plan for Cooper, a child of parents killed in Auschwitz during the Holocaust, which was to have her โ€œincarcerated in a mental institution or jail, or at least to hit her so hard she drops her attacks.โ€

    • Tony Ortega

      Actually, her first story about Scientology came out in 1969.

      • shasha40

        Who’s going to interview you for the Bunker , Tony , when your book comes out ? Or will you be doing the honors ? Just curious , ” inquiring minds ” and all that . ๐Ÿ™‚

        • L. C. Spencer

          EVERYBODY.

          • shasha40

            I know , think he’ll have time for his Bunker babies once the book hits the stands ? I can’t wait !!! ( but , I have to , ‘ cause , Tony teaches us patience ) * giddy with Joy ,though *

    • Draco

      You have become an Astrocat! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • MaxSpaceman

        Draco Draco, bo bake-o; bo nana fana foh fake-o; fee fi mo make-o; Draco. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • aquaclara

    Marty, you rock. Just have to say that, since some dastardly organization destroyed clapping. Otherwise, this would be a standing ovation.

    Learning that your church was instead a hate-filled scam of an operation had to be incredibly painful. And yet, you listened to others also in pain, and helped them regain their footing. For this, the church’s thugs decide they must be sure to extract even more pain. I hope they’ve stopped all the harassment now, but just as zebras can’t change their stripes, the organization called Scientology won’t, either. Until one day, when it’s all gone for good.

    I said to someone a few days ago that when you strip away the lies and the fraud, the ugly bits and the bits that make no sense, there’s nothing left in Scientology but a volcano. I’m sorry that you and so many others have had to endure so much to find this out, and that the emperor has indeed nothing on after all. Your ability to listen, to discern, to read and to wonder-those are innate gifts that will continue to help bring about more recoveries and healing.

    Sending you and Monique best wishes – for your beautiful family, for your new life, and for peace. Oh, and in a certain courtroom in Texas, too.

    • joan nieman

      Especially that certain courtroom in Texas.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    The Countdown con-tinues:
    4 days !
    The Manohla Dargis interview appeared 2 weeks ago.
    I was incensed – the moral relativism that infects much of modern intellectualism
    is something that I cannot digest easily.

    I wrote and posted the following then.
    I think it bears reposting:

    I’ve just read the NYT review of “Going Clear,”
    an ungracious and deliberately obtuse review, I must add.
    Manohla Dargis didn’t get it – “it never fully illuminates why Mr. Haggis โ€” and most of the other former Scientologists on screen โ€” were attracted to it in the first place.”
    She suggests that it is “a movie that could benefit from a more dialectical approach.”
    Really?
    The Inch Wives, perhaps?
    The strangest comment for me was this accusation:
    “For some reason, Mr. Gibney gratuitously pumps up one such story โ€” that of Sylvia Taylor”
    Gratuitously?
    She ends eulogizing “The Master” and suggests Going Clear “makes for a lively and watchable documentary if not an especially enlightening one.”

    Here, Manohla, I’ll try to enlighten you.
    If I fail, take refuge in your husband’s wine cellar.
    **********************************************************************************************
    At moments of doubt, loss, ill-health or other turmoil, people are vulnerable.
    When people move away from home to a strange city or move to a different country to study, for example, they are vulnerable.
    If someone is young and idealistic, that may be the opening, the “weakness.”
    $cientology preys on this, offering as lure promises of certainty and of uncommon powers.

    It holds out false promises of solutions to all of life’s problems.
    It proclaims a science-based solution to issues of peace, ill-health, human-rights, injustice, addiction and drug-abuse.
    That these are fictional at best and fraught with major problems is not evident at a cursory glance to those seduced by the siren-call.

    It quickly strips beginners of any social group they might have had, of family and of critical thinking skills (if they had any.)
    It offers in their place a dedicated group where doubt is frowned upon and feeling is denigrated or denied.
    Based on the ridiculous premise that merely thinking makes things so, it is mired at an adolescent level of thought.
    It is sadly dualistic, anti-scientific and a royal road to delusion.
    It offers a promise of a utopian future that masks a truly dystopian present.
    It kidnaps good intentions and holds noble dreams hostage to an amoral, even criminal, reality.

    It destroys language, redefining ethics and justice, and substitutes ugly facist neologisms for common words,
    the better to imprison followers in an impenetrable jargon that excludes the world and prevents independent thought.
    “Face Ripping”, “Severe Reality Adjustment”, the conditions of “enemy” and “treason”
    speak of the permanent state of war, of us versus them, in which
    the dedicated Sea Org members find themselves.

    The deeper the neophyte enters into the labyrinth, the harder it becomes to see clearly.
    The exits are unmarked or bear “Here be dragons” signs.
    Eventually, the ever-looming threats of disconnection and loss of one’s promised “eternity”,
    together with learned self-censorship, create a nearly impermeable shell.

    The real possibilities of ill-health, bankruptcy and traumatic stress are not faced.
    And yet, the flagrant injustices, the avalanche of lies, the naked greed and the disconnect with the real and observable world gnaw at all but the truly insane.
    Most arrive at a breaking point.
    The vast majority leave or are pushed.
    It has always been thus.

    Not more than a tiny tiny sprinkling of those introduced to $cientology in the 50’s and 60’s who are still alive remain true believers.
    The 70’s and 80’s tell the same story.

    Thousands of lives have been sacrificed on the bonfire of Hubbard’s vanity, insatiable greed and insanity.
    The IRS, by capitulating in the early ’90s, has allowed the Witches’ Sabbath to continue long past its’ natural demise.
    Fortunately, pioneer critics have been joined by an ever-increasing number of voices, all raised loud to cry “Enough, enough.”

    “Going Clear” arrives now with all the power of a groundswell that has been gathering force and is massed behind it.
    The first serious cracks and fissures opened with ARS.
    Lisa McPherson’s death added immensely.

    Anonymous and the internet have paved the way as well as the books, the blogs and certain perceptive journalists.

    To those still trapped inside, be kind.
    Many will have been inside this parallel reality, with all their tribe, for years, for decades even.
    Hounded for money, sleep-deprived, broke or in debt, health compromised by cigarettes –
    the cult drug of choice, and dangerous mega-doses of niacin.
    Stressed, ill-nourished, over-worked, afraid.

    The awakening is not easy.
    It is a terrible feeling, to realize that your entire belief system and sense of belonging,
    your sense of being special and knowing the truth about life may be totally wrong
    and based on a carefully constructed house of cards, resting on a foundation of lies.
    Any questions are quickly censored or cruelly sec checked.

    What is much more terrible is living your life with the certainty that you have in your hands
    the absolute truth when, in truth, you hold a chimera, a mirage, a fantasy, created by a criminal and a crook.

    The wonderful thing about the human spirit is that we can emerge whole and healed from the most
    appalling loss and unspeakable cruelty with the help of others, with the help of time and of love.

    I salute all of you who have made or are making that journey,
    all the exes who move me daily with their stories of courage, of loss,

    Life is an amazing gift, a multi-faceted wondrous ineffable mystery.
    Awe, reverence and humility are appropriate in the face of the vastness of this universe.
    I am glad we share this journey together.

    We are on the threshold of a moment devoutly hoped for.
    Thank you all.

    • Draco

      Thank you, Pan. Beautifully said. I am grateful to have people like you out there in the world, and here in the Bunker. xxx

    • aquaclara

      Ooh, this is great, Pan. I hope every word made it to the NYT.

    • Juicer77

      You can’t post this too often. Thank you.

    • L. C. Spencer

    • NOLAGirl

      So, so good Pan. I was going to put in an applause gif, but LC Spencer put a pic in below that I think sums it up perfectly. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • shasha40

      Such deep and true words , I hope it can help others understand . Thank you , Pan . Xoxo… ( no smiley face right now as I am crying for all who have been hurt by CoS. ) Enough !!!

    • Suzy

      Beautiful and articulate! Thank you, thank you.

    • Snuzey

      A wonderful piece of writing, very moving. Thank you.

    • Missionary Kid

      Hell yes. You put everything down right.

    • Georget1952

      There are thousands of people out there who have left Scientology. They are too afraid to speak out for reasons that are their own. It is people like you who do the talking for them….until they become strong enough to do it themselves.

      Thank you

  • Mat Pesch

    I applaud Marty for being able to work his way out of the mind f#@% and for helping and warning others in a BIG way.

  • Sejanus

    I am curious..when a person steps out of $cientology for the first time..what is the emotion?
    Are there tears or anger…what is the first feeling?

    • SciWatcher

      I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say “relief.”

      • Sejanus

        No idea..hence why I am asking.

      • Innoculated

        I left unofficially and was looking over my shoulder until I made it to a bus which would get me to airport connections. I felt free for the first time in a long time. Once on the bus, I felt a mixture of sadness (for myself), anxiety and great relief. The closer I got to getting out of town, the greater was my relief. I didn’t know what I was going to do when I returned home but I still had my whole life before me.

    • splog

      Grief, or something like it.

      It’s that sickening feeling that you were conned for X years, and you walked right into it. It hits much like a hammer blow

      • One Human

        And with that in mind:

        • Mymy88

          Thanks for posting that. It’s just what I needed. I have too much nervous energy right now. I need to work some off. This helps a lot lol.

          • One Human

            “Live At Wembley” is the very best live recording I know of; Freddy has the audience in the palm of his hand and treats them all as friends.
            And yes, nervous energy is filling my days right now too.

    • Draco

      Good question. For me, not just one feeling. Anger, embarrassment, relief, now what, mixed in with a whole lot of WTF???? And lots more.

      • One Human

        Were these the same emotions that led you to leave, aside from the relief?

    • Semper Phi

      For me, the primary feeling was relief that I no longer had to convince myself that I really believed. Later, the embarrassment, disgust, regret, and anger came in, but my first feeling was that a great weight had been lifted. Also, joy that I could take ibuprofen when I got a headache.

      • MaxSpaceman

        Did you write a post/comment on seeing Going Clear? and I missed it? Was hoping to get your take on the film. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Semper Phi

          No, I didn’t write a post about the film, so you didn’t miss it. I thought it was fantastic. It was so well produced and visually beautiful, and I loved the evocative music. The production values all served the approach of the filmmakers, which was wonderfully non-sensational. (That is absolutely NOT to say it was un-dramatic.) I felt like they smoothly guided the viewer through the life cycle of a Scientologist, from getting in and the initial wins, through what it’s like to be part of the group, and then the eventual disillusionment and need for escape, and the consequences. It flowed so beautifully, and the 8 subjects were so eloquent and engaging, as well as Our Proprietor, who was really helpful in making sense of it all for the uninitiated. What did you think? (Or did I miss a post from you?)

          • MaxSpaceman

            ๐Ÿ˜‰ Lincoln Center beckoned, but I dint make it. Catching it Sunday in New York.

            • Semper Phi

              Where are you seeing it on Sunday? Got a friend with HBO?

            • MaxSpaceman

              e-mail Tony about Sunday in New York

    • Martha Greene

      First anger then many tears because you will never have the eternity promised to you, lol.
      Then a deep craving for information. Hitting the internet late into the night. Feeling as if you are seeing things clearer. Along with some paranoia, am I being watched?
      Fear comes along, panic attacks, nightmares.
      Then one gets the courage to face their fears and protest along with anonymous. The rest is history. Admit to people you were in a cult. Suddenly you are an expert on the danger of cults and let parents and the school know how dangerous it is and to warn their kids before going out to college.
      Ending it with excitement on seeing this cult destroyed in your lifetime and letting everyone you know to check out HBO!

    • Mockingbird

      I can only answer for me . I left after 25 years with a lot sacrifice in time and effort and damaged personal relationships and lost opportunities and the first moments are the greatest sense of utter panic and being betrayed by Hubbard as a perfect all knowing all loving God becomes a cruel insane compassionless con man and everything I believed about religion , philosophy , life , the mind , people , emotions, politics , history and a million other things ALL collapsed into overwhelming immense cognitive dissonance phenomena of reelingness , confusion , having a lifetime of “study” and effort and my ego that centered around that crushed down to nothing- I went from thinking I knew the secrets to life as few ever have to knowing I knew less than 99% of people and in fact was worse off than an ignorant illeterate as they know they do not have info -I had false info and thought it and I was above criticism ! My self esteem plummeted and my actions taken to support the cult suddenly went from heroic and noble to monstrous and evil beyond description – THAT is what Scientology has to offer – so do you want to go to your local org and sign up ?

      For whatever reason I am not a suicidal person but I can assure you THAT level of hopeless depression is sufficient to inspire suicide and I am certain it has for others if they realize Scientology is a fraud and enslavement method . And they have no people or options outside of the cult .

  • Hamtaro

    There once was a fellow named Marty
    Today is his “coming out” party
    He has no use for Ron
    or Ron’s sixty year con
    We hope Marty’s healing is hearty!

    • MaxSpaceman

      yeah, Ham!

    • Juicer77

      Hear, hear!

    • Bavarian Rage

      Limericks! Now that’s my speed of poetry! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • El Con Blubbard

    The best help I received after I left the Science of Mindfucking – Scientology,
    was by a friend.

    An ex Scientologist who just listened to me talk about how Scientology harmed me – for hours, days and weeks – maybe even months.

    I was so jammed up, confused and in fear when I made my exit out of the cult. Many of the ex Scientologist’s were not able to listen – they indirectly still applied the “tech” and cut me off. They did not want to listen to anything negative. They did not know they were doing it.

    Even if they are out – it is “implanted” in them and they can’t help it. They have not deprogrammed themselves.

    I would recommend for any lurkers that you find yourself a “deprogrammed” Ex Scientologist who will just allow you to talk and talk and talk – and that is some good therapy that will help you deprogram yourself!

    My good friend (you know who you are MGGP ~ THANK YOU AGAIN!) This guy was ABLE to do it and he had not even gone up the Bridge nor completed any training.

    Go figure….a guy who was able to talk about anything, not flinch when I talked about the cult – and would properly acknowledge my rants.

    • Draco

      That need to talk is so strong. I also found someone I could talk to, and we talked non-stop for days. With a few hours to sleep here and there. I was surprised my voice still worked, because I don’t usually talk that much! And as you talk and share, you learn more and more about how to get out of all the traps hubbard set with his “tech”.

  • Racnad

    Was it not auditing Rathbun was doing around the time the Squirrel Busters were camped out outside his house?

    • Ardent

      He just explained in the article above that he was actually (I paraphrase) weaning people OFF Scientology.
      The Squirrel Busters seem to have barking up the wrong tree.

      • I guess we’ll just have to wait until the Squirrel Busters’ documentary comes out to see what they were thinking. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Ardent

          “Thinkin!? We don’ need no steekin’ thinkin’!”

      • That’s cause they’re nuts!!

    • While my initial reaction is “well, they were there to get him to blow up on to record that on video” I do wonder if the justification offered for the harassment of Monique in the Monique Rathbun lawsuit is affected by this?

      I guess we’d have to actually go to court – or something – to find out…

    • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

      I would assume that, initially, Marty thought that he was auditing, but that with time, education, and reflection, he realized that the key ingredient of his sessions was the understanding and accurate empathy that he provided, which has nothing whatsoever to do with anything conceived or plagiarized by LRH.

      • splog

        The way these things usually work, Marty probably spent most of his in-session auditing time delivering Correction Lists and Repairs and so on. It would go something like this:

        PC unloads for three hours about all the damn sec-checking and ethics he had to endure when actually he was going through a divorce and upset to the gazooks and back. PC eventually feels better and relieved, auditor acknowledges it and thanks pc for saying all of that. Or,

        PC freaks out about some aspect of his auditing (doing objectives *again*, Grade 2 going on for 100 hours or whatever). Audito goes down a correction list, comes to “overrun” and pc unloads. Auditor gives standard response “I’d like to indicate you were overrun on “.

        In both cases the pc feels tremendous relief because someone actually listened and took him seriously. And newly-outs are familiar with Repairs and Corrections, it’s what they’d expect to get under those circumstances. As you so correctly point out, it’s the understanding and empathy that provides the relief.

        At least initially, Marty did provide real auditing, many folks posted on his blog thanking him for getting them through some or other bridge step, but IIRC by 2010/2011 those kind of posts had dwindled away to almost nothing.

    • Matt in Atlanta

      Guy had to make a living don’t ya know.

  • L. C. Spencer

    Re the movie: putting my hopes out here right now that we won’t have to wait as long for the raw uncut interviews as we did for the Secret Lives ones. Maybe Mr. Gibney would see fit to feature them as DVD extras?

    And way to go, Marty. You took the long way home, and that’s a hell of a journey.

  • flyonthewall

    Enjoy peanut race and storytime with Hubbard!

  • Great articles from both, real eye opener about Marty, glad he’s seen the light and I support him wholly.

  • Even if I’ve not had time to keep up with Marty’s blog regularly over the years, I’ve still noticed his gradual decompression from the Scientology mindset. Both he and Mike Rinder have travelled a long way since news of their departure from corporate Scientology spread across the forums.

    Over the years, they’ve had to weather a fair amount of abuse from not just hard-core campaigners who were never inside the movement but ex-members who had already shaken off the movement’s psychological shackles. To their credit, they didn’t retreat into an obscure corner of the Freezone to spend their days chasing the chimera of more Scientology wins: they took the hard road out.

    They may not have moved as quickly or as far as some might have liked — but move they have. And from everything we’ve been learning here about the Gibney documentary, it sounds as if it was worth the wait.

    • Seconded. After all, they’re not my private army. (Darnit! ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

      • shasha40

        Thirded !

  • deanblair

    In 2009 I decided to look at the internet in regards to Scientology. I had been a Scientologist for forty years. I was a staff member at Class 5 orgs, missions, and then the Sea Org. I had reached OT5 and Class 9. The first thing I read was the St. Petersburg Times article with all of the interviews of the ex Int staff speaking out. Marty Rathbun as well as the rest of them were unknown to me at the time. I was able to discern that each of them was telling the truth about what they had experienced because I had experienced similar things while I was in. After that I began reading Marty’s Blog and developed some kinship with him.

    Since then I have done the 180 degree turn around myself and left the cult, it’s beliefs, and respect for L Ron Hubbard far behind. Thank you Marty for speaking out when you didn’t need to. I am certain your actions have led to many cult members escaping the Church of Scientology and going on to lead happy productive lives. You have my best wishes for you and your family in the future.

    • One Human

      Cheers to you Dean!

      ” I was able to discern that each of them was telling the truth about what they had experienced because I had experienced similar things while I was in.”

      This is indeed why the truth needs to be continually shared.

      • Missionary Kid

        It’s also a powerful reason that $cientologists are trained not to talk about their case. If they start sharing, they’ll see that others have been abused like they have, then it’s game over. Bye bye $cientology.

    • aquaclara

      Oh my word, 40 years. Good for you. My dad and mom showed me It’s NEVER too late to start over. You, too, get to share this with so many.

      *sniffle, sniffle* We don’t get to the tears of happiness stage here often. Must be allergies.

    • Frank Lee

      I was married to someone raised in the cult, whose mother was a “founding member”. I didn’t understand for many years the root of the insanity of our marriage and the continual harassment afterward, until I started investigating Scientology. You realized those who had escaped were telling the truth based on your own similar experience. However, one of my frustrations has been those who question my honesty and abuse because they did not experience the same things as if every single human experiencis identical!

      • Frank Lee

        Something went wrong and I could no longer see what I was writing!
        But to continue: I have even been attacked by those who claimed that information I shared about my experiences could NOT be true because this group was unaware of it. That is so irrational as to defy explanation. I give up, this forum keeps deleting what I’m writing!

        • Donna Cline Sargent

          i am seeing it. sorry about your experiences.

    • HappyGirl

      Me too, Dean. 40ish years. Started looking at the internet in 2007. But Mike and Marty were known to me, I don’t know how. I think I saw them and entourage marching through Clearwater. I spent way too much time waiting for the MAA at Flag, watching the world march by. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • splog

        I knew Mike and Marty from event videos since the mid-80s. And Ronnie Miscavige, Heber, Kurt Weiland, Yager, Ingber, Guillame Leserve and a host of other execs too. I wondered for years where they all went to and why 4’13” became the only speaker. When I found Marty and Steve Halll’s sites, I found out.

  • cdub

    Just read Daily Beast explaining why our story went untold for so long. Think press coverage of Scn now is wonderful.

    • Mymy88

      Oh gosh, you are so right. I just got through skimming through that one. I skimmed instead of reading all of it, because I could tell it was too much wonderful coverage, just like you said lol, for me to take in, all at once, without my head exploding with glee that the time for the final battle, has finally arrived. It is wonderful. It is fabulous! Oooo, I can just picture it… a cover story in ‘Time’ magazine and ‘The Atlantic’. Yum, I’m fantasizing on what the cover photos and titles could be. Too much good stuff, so little time.

      • cdub

        Our story was ignored or really suppressed for so, so long I accepted that our problems weren’t very important. And I know the whole back story, the intimidation – harassment – lawsuits, but I came to think we’d forever be pushed to the sidelines while the church got the final word in. Looking at the media attention now it may be pack journalism but it’s for a good cause so hey. Putting it out there that the media was previously reluctant to cover the story out of fear means the page has been turned. I still think Scientology has a limited playbook and once that’s exposed it’s easy to see the pattern and easier still to predict what they’ll do next. I’m sure there’s a number of outlets waiting for the harassment so they can pounce on it.

        • Mymy88

          Yep. I get the feeling everybody in the news media industry is positioning to give $cien the beat down of its life-time it so richly deserves, and has been begging on both knees for, these last couple months.

  • rom661

    A good friend disclosed to me yesterday that he enjoys reading the bunker and my comments. I respected his privacy and didn’t ask if he is a lurker or active and who he might be. Hmmm.

    • Ben Franklin

      Should have asked. If you are still connected to people in the curch, the person may have been looking for confirmation.

      • rom661

        Sorry, by active I meant posting. He’s a never in. He had his own cult experience at about the same time I was involved with this garbage. The situation is not remotely like that. Great guy who’s in the same industry as me.

        • Ben Franklin

          I was just afraid it might have been somebody probably trying to confirm for OSA whether you post or not.

          • rom661

            Thanks for your concern, but not warranted. Meant to be a lighthearted post. Plus I’m one of the ones Scientology got info on when they hacked in so the cat’s out of the bag. And I was a nobody.

    • shasha40

      Bunker Dissemination Powers, activated ! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Mymy88

      That would drive me crazy!

  • Kim O’Brien

    I was reading Marty’s blog during those years ..whatever he calls it now , he was calling it “auditing” then . I remember a video of a woman with long blonde hair just GUSHING about how his auditing was the very best , best thing in her life and he was the very, very, very best at it ..she had so many “wins”. I also remember the video his wife made after one such session ..Mosey went on and on about how there was no longer ” baggage ” …and she was never in . I think most ppl who have been in this cult for a long time , and those who were as high up in the poison tree as Marty was ..and are out now …are so damaged , redefining things is just a coping mechanism. He has a wife and a son now …someone to be an example for . I think ya got to redefine yourself in order to that maybe . Hell ..i dunno . Glad i never will ….i am not very good at that type of mental gymnastics . He has ppl to live for now and i would never wish that a boy did not have a father . Whatever he has to do in order to try to be a good one ..i can’t knock him for that .

    • shasha40

      Thank goodness there is forgiveness and compassion in the ” wog” world . Unlike yours , tiny member . Tick, tock , the clock is winding down …

      • Mymy88

        Well said shasha40!

        • shasha40

          Thank you ,those are the traits I love most about my Bunker family too !

    • Beth

      “redefining things is just a coping mechanism” – very insightful. Explains alot.

  • Chris Mann

    Marty was delivering Scientology auditing. I remembered him auditing the Grades on Mosey and if I recall correctly he was delivering OT levels and other Bridge levels to PC’s. The second video is Steve Hall completing his “NOTs Program”. I think there are probably other examples of this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwpsaPuB8fw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzdANW_R00I

    • KNMF

      I hope Steve Hall wakes up or already has, to Hubbard’s shitiness.

    • Tracy Schmitz

      all i see and get from the 1st video above is someone who needed someone to listen to her and no judgement,, you know like a husband or a brother or a great friend! nothing more!

    • Spackle Motion

      Another example of Marty double-speak. It is really sad.

  • Sir Hemet TC Burlwood, VIII

    The WMFU music leading into Tony’s interview is fun. Fun like a fever-dream.

    • Beth

      Definitely! I had a brief acid flashback, but luckily it passed by the time the interview started. Great interview too – lots of topics covered – all came through. Nice!

  • Beth

    Hmmm. I applaud Rathbun’s departure from CoS of course, but I have to agree with some of the “mixed feelings” posts so far today.

    He says. โ€œWhen Alex asked me that question in the movie, I thought, itโ€™s the whole thing, I had come full circle to say that anything of use during my Scientology experience wasnโ€™t original, and I probably would have found it elsewhere.โ€

    That statement is a very cerebral cleanup of the emotional moment on film. For whatever reason he is totally backing away from the raw feeling behind what he said. And I don’t know that genuine wisdom is an “it” that you can de-package or re-package and apply elsewhere. Very strange. I’m sorry, but it still sounds like philosophy/religion as a marketable product. I’m getting the feeling that Marty is dealing with the inner struggle between fully letting go of his past (and being completely honest with himself about it) and keeping up a certain public image – very CoS. I think that’s extremely stressful and I think that’s where the tears keep coming from. I know alot of people who use “helping other people” as a substitute for doing their own healing. Sharing personal experiences of his life in CoS is good for Marty and everyone else, but IMHO he should stop being an “expert” for a while and just live. Always having to be an expert is burdensome. Showing emotion is not weakness. Knowing something today that you didn’t know yesterday doesn’t make you a fool.

    the lyrics come into my head……”end up like a dog that’s been beat too much, ’til you spend half your life just just covering up…” . Poor guy.

    • Spackle Motion

      Excellent comment. Rathbun is a conflicted man and not always for the reasons others believe or see on the surface.

      It must be hell for him to constantly relive his past actions although I believe it is quite deserved. Until recently, I’ve seen only an arrogant, flippant, ego-driven person trying to pound a square peg into a round hole….over and over and over and over. His selective process for allowing blog comments leads me to believe that he loved the sycophantic adulation and praise. I admire, though, his bravery to publicly disavow Scientology and lose many supportive sycophants.

      Even so, polite and honest questions from the public were typically met with his abusive responses unless there was a camera and journalist in the room. I found this highly distasteful. He also continued the double-speak where his actions countered his written words.

      What I read of his books were not forthright and Rathbun still appears to be withholding information. He over promised the content of his upcoming books, then failed to deliver, which doesn’t bode well for his character.

      His past is now his future, and it is great that he’s stopped trying to fit the square peg in the round hole but it appears that he still has much damage to fix.

  • Betsy

    Question for everyone: the movie is on HBO at 8:00. I’m on Mountain Time. Does that mean 8:00 for us here? (Party is going to be happening, so I need to know!)

    • ze moo

      If your provider has a program guide, look there.

    • Lucille Austero

      I believe it will air at 8pm in each time zone. 8pm for you, 8pm for me in Pacific time, etc ๐Ÿ™‚

    • generic sock account

      You should be able to watch on HBOGo at 8:10 EST.

    • NOLAGirl

      I am in the Central time zone and my guide says it starts at 7 pm.

      • Lucille Austero

        Well, that just blew my theory out of the water!

        • NOLAGirl

          That’s ok Lucille, better that we all get to watch it at the same time so we can come back and get the party started. ๐Ÿ˜€

        • MaxSpaceman

          please check in at whenmytheoriesareblownoutofthewaterheriswhatineedtodo. com

        • Robert Eckert

          Typical is 8PM Eastern simultaneous with 7PM Central, followed two hours later by 8PM Mountain simultaneous with 7PM Pacific. I don’t know if that’s how it will be this time, but many shows are scheduled that way.

          • Lucille Austero

            Well, thanks, Robert – now I need a drink ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Tracy Schmitz

        same here, in the midwest/ central time zone it will air at 7 p.m. and then again at 10 p.m. and just looking briefly at my remote control tv guide it will be airing quite alot including early morning hours and the middle of the day! i hope it airs for a long, long, long time! and yes, i want a avalache of it being talked and discussed everywhere.

        • NOLAGirl

          I noticed that too. It is airing quite a bit in the week following the TV premiere. Dissemination Baby!! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • SP E

    I think what many people don’t realize about Marty Rathbun is he is the perfect example of a remarkably caring person that was led astray. This is a man that violated every personal, ethical and moral standard he had because he truly believed in the end it would benefit mankind. I think finally understand… How hard would it to accept that countless harmful actions and decisions was not the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics? I feel sorry for Marty as well as the rest of society… Can you imagine the incredible good Marty could of done for society had he been in a church that honestly helped mankind? Scientology today would not be worth billions without Marty… Once you understand that Marty did some shady things because he thought in the end it would save the world, you understand what a tragedy Marty’s scientology experience really is.. I hope Marty uses his incredible convictions again because this is a guy that can really make a positive difference.

    • Beth

      very well said SP E

    • One Human

      Marty’s introduction to Scientology at a very vulnerable time in his life is a good warning for those that “don’t understand how anyone could be stupid enough to get involved”;
      finding some ones ruin is the heart of the predatory beast called Scientology.

  • ze moo

    “thatโ€™s not Scientology, thatโ€™s just something Hubbard ripped off from someone else.โ€ The only ‘original’ parts of $cientology are the mating of all the ‘coercive’ parts into a whole that make the prospective devotee willingly put the blinders on.

    I didn’t read Marty’s blog much until he announced the total debunking of Lroon. After that, I read his blog fairly often and even went back and read some of his evolution. It was interesting to see how, once out of the prison of belief, he read where ‘auditing’ and all the ‘ecclesiastical’ stuff actually came from. He took the blinders off and did help other defectors escape.

    I wonder where Michael Fairman and the others Marty ‘audited’ are now? Do they stand with Lron or have they moved on? Every devotee has their own journey to take, but that journey takes steps, sometimes forward, sometimes backwards. Only the devotee and their friends and family can decide which direction each step is.

    Going Clear is getting major buildup for the first Sunday showing. I expect all the morning talk shows to do a segment on it Monday. MMmmmm, cake for breakfast.

    • Tony Ortega

      Michael Fairman moved on before Marty did.

    • Mrs. V.

      It’s my understanding that some have moved on away from scientology and into other philosophies, or none at all, while there are others who still believe in LRH and have gone off to other independent groups: Freezone, Milestone Two, etc.

  • Richard

    If Scientologists are all so desperately wanting to be revealed The Truth, then why don’t they take a short cut and start reading The Underground Bunker? Just sayin’.

    • MaxSpaceman

      They should, Richard. But maybe they just don’t want the truth, Truthi ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Robert Eckert

        They CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

    • Mockingbird

      Here is OT 9 and 10 for you – the real truth revealed . OT 9 -Scientology is a total fraud and terrorist mind control cult and none of the technology is true or beneficial it is intended to enslave you until death as a mental pseudo clone slave for Hubbard !

      OT 10 no more bullshit the Liar Ron Hubbard and Diminutive Monster David Miscavige are both psychopathic con men with many crimes including bona fide murders via medical fraud and also always knew the tech is fake and went to great lengths to hide this for decades which proves they know they have been enslaving and abusing and torturing people for profit and power the entire time !

      Congratulations ! Now do your OT preps for OT 11 and 12 which are forthcoming !!!

  • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

    Mike Rinder will be interviewed tomorrow at 10:00 on CBC radio. CBC is the Canadian public broadcaster and is broadcast all across the country. It is the most listened-to station in most of its markets. The 10:00 show, called Q, has been the most popular show on CBC (though that may have changed with charges laid against its once popular host). The show is listened to by all the arty types (like me) who one day might end up in the clutches of Scientology. This show is another nail in the coffin. Find it here http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/ then click on Radio One, Listen Live and you may have to choose your market (e.g. Toronto). It will be on at 10:00 in the various time zones so if you miss it Eastern, you can pick it up Mountain or Pacific.

    • CBC does a pretty good job when reporting heavy stuff like this. Far better than the private Canadian broadcasters.

  • NOLAGirl

    Another great interview Tony. Both of the recent interviews you’ve linked us to have been stellar. It’s really nice to see the interviewers know their stuff and don’t interrupt you while you’re laying it all out for the listeners.

    Keep it up media. You’re a bit late to the party but we have caek and we have been waiting for you.

    • Robert Eckert

      The WFMU interviewer in particular had a list of topics he wanted to get Tony to talk about, but he would just throw out there “OK, now talk about the IRS…” and get out of the way. I liked that.

  • Bob

    Mike Rinders blog on double standards was great. An excellent read in light of the HBO special. However It is just one small part of their double standards. It applies to a parts of Scientology ethics, auditing, finances, family issues etc.
    Mini-MeScavige can override any policy at anytime and he does this daily.
    There is only one actual policy.
    “Do anything necessary to look good and save Davey and the cherchs ass. If it is against one policy, find another LRH policy that counters it.”
    Hubbard named his cherch incorrectly. It is the Cherch of Hypocritology. And Captain Davey is a master at following the main policy to a T.

    • Walter Mitty

      Quote: “Do anything necessary to look good and save Davey and the cherchs ass.
      If it is against one policy, find another LRH policy that counters it.”
      Congratulation – you just found the secret OT IX scripture.

      • Bob

        Hmmm, do I get a cert for achieving that level?

        • Missionary Kid

          You got something even better. You got out. ๐Ÿ˜€

          • Bob

            MK, true enough. I think there should be a cert when an ex realizes Hubbard was way screwed up and as a habit is willing to take everything he said with a truckload of salt.

            • Missionary Kid

              The only cert should come from the ex themselves. After all, for once, the realizations and satisfaction come from within, and not an outside organization.

              There are different stages. (Not in any particular order). Here are some of them.

              I’ve been declared.
              I’m no longer a $cientologist.
              Miscavige is an asshole.
              LRH was a bastard, and he wanted everyone to be clones.
              Boy, was I duped and lied to.
              Fuck LRH.
              Fuck $cientology
              I’m free, but every once in a while, something pops up.

            • Bob

              The Scale of Decompression. Cool.

            • Missionary Kid

              I won’t call it a scale because different people encounter different parts of it at different times.

              LRH’s tone scale is so linear, and humans aren’t linear, we’re multidemensional. He tried to force everyone into a box, which is very awkward for the human personality.

            • Bob

              Hubbard didn’t actually say people have to be linear. Over the years clams interpreted it that way. And they make themselves fit into the formula. Poor clams.

            • Missionary Kid

              I meant that the tone scale is linear. There are no alternative paths. People are a mixture of motives and feelings. Sometimes, one is thankful and happy that they are free from $cientolgy, yet, at the same time, they are sad at the people who they have lost contact with because of disconnection.

              Some people are motivated by greed, and others, power and many are motivated by a mixture of both, for example. To categorize someone’s feelings as a simple number is ridiculous, IMO.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              OT X: I now know who I am not, and that’s “a scientologist”. heh

        • Walter Mitty

          Yes, I will send you a certificate. And a flowerpot.

          Just give me your credit card number, and your credit card and your liver. ( A nod to Monty Python.)

          • Bob

            Lol. I gave all my credit cards to the cherch. I do have paypal

            • Walter Mitty

              Works great for me. Just open your door. I will be here any minute. And always remember – you can trust me. (refresh)

            • Bob

              ๐Ÿ™‚

        • One Human

          You must share your wins, replete with the secret Scieno “WHOOSH!!!” vocabulary first.

          • Bob

            My win is not being stressed out 24/7 any more. When I was in the cognitive dissonance was intense. And that went on for decades. Dealing with constant hypocrisy is deadly.

            • One Human

              Sadly, the WOG world has more than it’s share too, but empathy, which seems abundant among Bunkerites, is a great remedy.

    • chukicita

      Keeping Scientology Working = Keeping COB in high-end motorcycles and scotch.

      • Bob

        And boot lickers.

    • Robert Eckert

      HelluvaHoax called it Hubbard’s Law of Commotion: for every LRH policy, there is an equal and opposite policy.

      • Bob

        Ha, ha, why didn’t you tell me that 20 years ago?

  • Lucille Austero

    Nice article at Daily Beast today, I think the link is downthread, but here it is. Also, comments, though not very many, are 100% anti-$cibots. Their “reputation” continues to swirl down the toilet.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/25/why-scientology-s-cone-of-silence-shattered.html

    • Douglas D. Douglas

      Their reputation is just the “offal” truth…

      • Missionary Kid

        No shit.

      • Lucille Austero

        Their reputation: The general public has just sniffed a couple of times, looked at each other, reached into their collective front pocket, and to their surprise and disgust, pulled out a turd.

    • One Human

      Great article, not so thrilled with the comment device.
      Took a glance and saw too much “all religions blah, blah, blah”.

      • Lucille Austero

        Oh, they must have decided to confront and shatter!! I believe their tactic will work. Not. No one believes you raving lunatic $cibots!!

        • One Human

          Indeed!
          I liked how I could hear Mike Rinder’s voice as I read his quotes.
          I wonder if M & M have enough ARC (sorry, couldn’t resist) to do more videos together.

      • Ben Franklin

        People who talk about “all religions” sometimes are atheists, not necessarily scientologists. For atheists, they see all religious beliefs as ridiculous to begin with.

        • Missionary Kid

          As an atheist, I have religious beliefs. I believe there’s no god.

          • Ben Franklin

            I Just didn’t know how to describe it properly, but, I think you understand what I was trying to say.

            • Missionary Kid

              I did. I was being somewhat of a wise-ass. When someone asks me when I lost my faith, I tell them that I didn’t lose anything. I just have a new faith.

            • Billy Bob

              LOL Oh, boy. Bet you got jumped on.

            • Missionary Kid

              No, not at all. If anyone chooses to argue with my choices, I say, “It’s all a matter of faith, and you can’t argue faith. Mine just happens to be different than yours. I’m not trying to convert you.”

              If I don’t want to discuss my beliefs, I’ll keep saying, “It’s all a matter of faith.”

              If the person is a Christian, and starts citing the bible, and I feel like talking to them, I don’t dispute that something is in the bible, but I point out the way in which it was written and translated, and the various schisms in Christianity that have existed from the crucifixion of Jesus and on.

              Since they are arguing from the canon that is accepted by their particular branch, I can point out many different scriptures that were labeled “apocryphal,” as well as the claims of revelation that have been made over the centuries that have shaped their present beliefs, and the fact that different branches of Christianity have different books in their biblical canon.

              Every belief, even mine, contain within them contradictions that are not necessarily seen by devotees. For example, the doctrine of the trinity was a compromise, and many other interpretations of Jesus’ words were ordered destroyed, but the monks who slaved on them instead, hid them. That’s how we got the Dead Sea Scrolls.

              That was an effort by Rome to enforce conformity.

          • I have always had a problem with being described as an ‘atheist’
            (although I am) because it suggests that the principal feature of my
            philosophy is a rejection of a particular supernatural belief in a
            deity.

            It’s not. The non-existence of God is, in fact a rather
            peripheral feature of a long chain of reasoning that leads to my view of
            the world. Religious people condemn the conclusion without inquiring
            about the reasoning.

            When you accept the t label ‘atheist’, you
            are allowing religious people to define your philosophy in
            their terms, from the perspective of
            their beliefs, which sidelines your own.

            I
            suppose the problem is religions consist of large numbers of people with
            shared beliefs, which are typically clearly labelled. If your
            philosophy is… individual you don’t have a label.
            Some people cannot cope with this, and stamp one on you whether you like
            it or not.

            In this sense, I am not a theist, but I am not religious either.

            Religious belief, like any subjective human activity is often ridiculous. However, I am fascinated by it because I have never, ever, been even slightly temped by ‘the consolations of religion’. I do not understand how it comes about, and yet I know good people who think (for example) that the doctrine of the trinity is reasonable and important. This is the root of my fascination with Scientology, which stretches faith beyond any reasonable limit.

            Sometimes I think belief (or the lack of it) has a deep neurological component…

            • Missionary Kid

              I agree totally with your last sentence. To me, religion is an attempt to explain the world around humankind. Listen to how a 4 year old explains how something works. They make a lot of assumptions that we wouldn’t admit to, or that we discarded shortly after we learned how things really worked.

              As adults, it’s proven that we see patterns in order to make sense of what we see. A classic case of this is the star formations that are interpreted as a bear, or an archer, or a man with a belt.

              I have no problem with the word atheist applied to me. It means not a theist, and, since I don’t believe in any god, it’s appropriate.

              What’s bad is all the other crap that people add to the label. I grew up on the other side, and one of the signposts that started me away from being a fundamentalist Christian was meeting a woman who was raised as an atheist and discovering that not only was her moral code better than 95% of the Christians I knew, but the way she lived her live had so much less hypocrisy. I also knew a hell of a lot of preachers and deacons from my dad’s travels across the U.S., raising money for missions. I include them among the Christians.

              I had been taught that atheists were by definition, immoral because all morality, I had been taught, came from god. Her life put the lie to it. It was only a couple of hours in an afternoon, but it gave my journey away from how I had been brought up a real boost. I probably spent at least 30 years calling myself an agnostic, but over the last 10 or so, I’ve decided that I’m an atheist.

              My attitude is that one can believe anything they want, and as long as they don’t force their beliefs on others or cause harm, they’re free to do as they want.

            • I suppose the critical thing is being to tell the difference between a significant pattern and a false correlation.

              My objection to being called an atheist is that it assumes ‘they’re all the same’ when, in fact there is much greater variety of beliefs among people who reject god than among religious believers. This effectively prevents the believer from actually listening to you – they don’t have to. They already know.

              This seems to much more of a live issue for you because various faiths (including Christianity) are still embedded in US culture, are quite militant and perceive atheism as some kind of threat.

              The UK has become predominantly secular (to the point that most people are quite unaware of basic Christian doctrine) and atheism is now a default position so widespread that hardly anyone even thinks to describe themselves in that way. Socially, belief or the lack of it is a dead issue.

              Finally, I have always been puzzled by the proposition that morality is impossible without belief in God. Who is the better person – the one who behaves well because they fear punishment and hope for reward, or the one who does the right thing simply because it is right.

            • Missionary Kid

              The reasoning for god being necessary for morality derives from the idea that god created everything good, so things. that are good only come from god. Morality is good, so it must come from god. If you are without god, you’re bad, and you therefore must be immoral

            • Yeah… theology, at it’s best, is reasoning from a false premise.
              At it’s worst, it’s an excuse for prejudice (and occasionally persecution).

            • Missionary Kid

              I agree, but my attitude is that people are entitled to their own delusions, as long as it doesn’t impact my life.

              Impacting my life includes teaching religious beliefs in schools or using government resources to advance a religious agenda.

        • One Human

          I just loathe how it waters down the focus on the intentionally sinister and predatory nature of Scientology.

          • Missionary Kid

            I answer them by pointing out that the argument that “all religions are the same” is a prime part of $cientology’s defense, and that what separates $cientology from other “religions” is its actions.

          • Billy Bob

            One cockroach at a time.

        • Mockingbird

          Hey speak for yourself there

          • Robert Eckert

            I think Ben is talking about the “angry atheist” subspecies. You can find them on the message boards taking the mirror-image of a fundamentalist position, that if anything is said in the Bible it must be untrue (there couldn’t possibly have been a king named “David” or whatever), and finding some way to connect anything that goes wrong back to the religion that is blame.

            • Mockingbird

              UGHH !! I must admit before Scientology I fit the asshole atheist trope to a tee ! Now after being a deluded fanatic and zealot who would kill or die for a dark messiah I am humbled and very careful about pretenduing to know better than others- I always know some of my beliefs are incorrect – just not which ones . And alack of humility leads to incorrect conclusions in my opinion . It certainly has for me .

              it is best to say SOME atheists push their claim of being more science supported as a right to arrogance . Not all . Some atheist girls are VERY nice and not arrogant assholes at all .

      • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

        There’s still a lot of people out there who take Scientology’s projected image at face value, and think it’s just a goofy sci-fi club for rich celebrities too vapid to know what they’re getting into, so they give it a pass because they assume any victims deserved it.

        My least favorite dismissal lately is “why complain about Scientology when ISIS exists?” as if we’re duty-bound to fix problems in a certain order.

        • Ben Franklin

          Scientology is definitely a Wolf in sheep’s clothing. Looks appealing and glamorous from the outside, but very dangerous.

          • One Human

            And a rabid one at that.

        • One Human

          Thank you for putting into words the sentiment I feel when I read comments like that.

        • Yes… it’s like going to hospital and being told, ‘why are you asking for treatement about your agonising broken toe – in the next ward, there’s someone who has broken both legs.

  • Missionary Kid

    If Going Clear had been made even a year ago, it would have had two different people than they are now in Marty and Mike.

    The timing is perfect.

    • joan nieman

      I think so too

  • villagedianne

    Marty is certainly spot-on about Hubbard’s borrowing from other practices and traditions.
    I’m wondering if Marty ever used an e-meter in his therapeutic sessions with ex-members. If so, did he at some point stop using it, and for what reason? I’m wondering how he feels about the e-meter now. Does he see it as a valid therapeutic tool or an unnecessary barrier between the counselor and the client.
    My psychoanalyst had both strong analytic skills and well-developed intuitive skills. I doubt that she would have seen much value in using a machine.
    I guess I should really ask this of Marty himself, but I seldom read his blog anymore. Still if anyone has information or feedback on this I would be interested in hearing it.

    • Robert Eckert

      A long while back, Marty made a blog post about finding that the e-meter reacts even before the question was asked; the physiological response is more about the state of being ready to answer a question than about whatever the answer might be.

      • 1subgenius

        My preliminary tests show that it is extremely sensitive to grip pressure.
        You can make that thing jump all around with the slightest variance.
        Still working on another demo video (I haven’t found a list of questions used).
        And still want to take it to a battery store to replace the old one(s) in there before they start leaking. Not just an easy swap. What they have in there is a few odd ones wired and bundled together.
        I’m hoping the store can figure it out, and I’ll be looking forward to seeing their reaction to it.

  • Bob

    “Thank goodness there is forgiveness and compassion in the ” wog” world . Unlike yours , tiny member . Tick, tock , the clock is winding down …”
    In reference to this earlier commenters statement.
    Scientologists are totally compassionate. They will do anything to secure the viability of their eternity. And once they have that they can forgive all the evil acts they commit in the name of saving humanity. And their compassion is for all beings throughout the universe, specially BTs.

    • shasha40

      Excellent description of tiny member’s world . Guess I need to ” word clear” , compassion and forgiveness. ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Bob

        Yes you do! Clams are the most compassionate beings in the sandbox of life.

        • shasha40

          Mainly to their BT’s though , not us wogs . * sigh*

  • BlackPR

    I got a lot of flack for lending some small measure of support to Marty a few years ago. But ultimately this is why. A completely open scientology that allows for outside verification and comparison, that allows for Hubbard to be fallible and allows you to pick and choose the “tech”…..ultimately leads you to a bigger world of better ideas.

    • Missionary Kid

      Yup. $cientology is the enemy of openness.

    • Billy Bob

      Peer reviewed science is what we have instead of knowingness.

  • valshifter

    This guy wants to be my friend on fb, does anybody knows him? am assuming he is OSA trying to fish thru my page.

    • MaxSpaceman

      He’s out, not oSa. See this w/ Jeff Augustine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vopRK5atCNc

      • valshifter

        oh, thanks Max

        • MaxSpaceman

          ok- I’m Max.

          • valshifter

            yes I reckon and changed edited to Max, thanks all the same.

            • MaxSpaceman

              He should make an interesting FB friend ๐Ÿ™‚

            • valshifter

              yes I know am accepting him he most have good stories to tell

          • shasha40

            Are you sure ?

      • Eivol Ekdal

        oops sorry – did not see your vid.

      • TheMirrorThetan

        There are 3 of them with Jeff. And they are all great. I love the bits about the “friend” who would pop up wherever Mark was.

    • Lucille Austero

      So now they are fumbling around on FB like ineffectual loons. Good. Okay. This is the second comment I’ve had to take back today. I am imposing a moratorium.

      • shasha40

        Once you realized , your comments gave me lulz , so they did some good . ๐Ÿ˜€

        • ScnMonkeyNuts

          Answered wrong person, sorry (edited)

          • shasha40

            Don’t let it happen again !!! ๐Ÿ˜€

    • ScnMonkeyNuts

      It can be eliminated by changing your privacy settings to only allow friends of friends to make โ€˜friend requestsโ€™. (It is how I have mine set up)

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Yes he looks familiar…
      (Looks at his FB Friends)

    • Anonymous

      Among dozens of sources of info about Mark Fisher:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vopRK5atCNc

  • Mrs. V.

    I haven’t read the comments yet, so I may be repeating here, but I have to say that Marty’s journey has been so interesting to witness. I am most interested in TV, books and movies when there is a compelling “character arc and development”. It’s even better when you watch it unfold in real life. I wish Marty peace and freedom in his future.

  • edge

    I distinctly remember the Village Voice days when Tony had his list of top people crippling Scientology and Hubbard came in first and Marty took such offense to that. A similar thing happened when some very bad news started coming out of Narconon Arrowhead. Marty felt that the tech and methods itself was fine, it was just managed wrong. In fact the overall message at his blog was one that many indies first have when they leave, that’s it’s just David Miscavige, not the tech or Hubbard that’s the problem. He would definitely not allow posts that were overly critical of Hubbard.

    It’s been interesting to watch the different journeys Rinder and Rathbun have taken on their respective blogs. I think Mike’s blog has been more outwardly focused, so Mike has gotten to the point where he feels Scientology’s bad because it hurts people by its lies and actions. Marty’s blog has been more inwardly focused with Marty exploring other philosophies and religions, sometimes trying to reconcile them with Hubbard. I think Marty’s journey has taken more time than Mike, but I think he’s gotten to the belief that Scientology’s bad because whatever is good in Scientology could be found somewhere else, likely because Hubbard ripped it off from somewhere else. Marty doesn’t defend Hubbard anymore. Different rivers, same ocean. I’m happy both of them are out.

    • Bob

      Both blogs have been valuable to me.

  • Dibythesea

    Help revoke CO$ tax exempt status and sign this petition at change dot org. 230 signatures so far!

    Every voice counts! You can remain anonymous by unchecking the box that asks if you want to share your name.

    https://www.change.org/p/i-r-s-revoke-the-tax-exempt-status-of-the-church-of-scientology?source_location=petition_footer&algorithm=promoted

    • Todd Tomorrow

      You must realize that this is a very low number of signatures! Please sign if you haven’t already.

      • Dibythesea

        Todd- yes less people are signing this petition than are voting for the Milner grant.
        You have to give your name address and email to sign the petition but it is not publicly shared.
        Can someone tweet this petition? I don’t have a Twitter acct.

        • Todd Tomorrow

          Anbody with some twitter experience, Help!

  • MaxSpaceman

    From Huff Post. Can’t see this enough! Erin Whitney, Huff Post

    “In January, both Gibney and Wright told Variety that they hold Cruise and John Travolta, another famous Scientology figurehead discussed in the film, responsible for “not demanding change” in the Church.

    “On Monday, Gibney echoed that sentiment: “He can espouse his beliefs, that’s fine. But not to address the allegations of abuse seems to me palpably irresponsible.

    “Cruise is the big kahuna and that’s why we’ve gone to the trouble of
    calling him out. We believe that he has a responsibility to say something
    about the abuse.”

  • ShoopZ

    4 DAYS! (refresh)

    • Miss Cabbage

      Just went on-line and subscribed to HBO. Well stocked up with pop and popcorn.
      Well, forget the pop, give me Vodka and Kahlua!

      • Betty

        We just signed up for HBO too. I hope they notice the swell in new enrolls.

      • MadMaxi

        Signed up last week!

    • Ready and waiting:

  • AnyOldName1

    Tony, thanks for outlining clearly and concisely Marty’s evolution. More than one review of “Going Clear” contained outdated information. People who are not as knowledgeable about this “cult” don’t understand the thought control and what it takes for the ex-members to extract themselves from it (“peel the onion”). It is sad when journalists or movie critics venture outside reviewing a movie to relay false information based on a cursory scan of someone’s blog. Then, take “church’s” PR at face value by declaring Marty is attempting a coupe d’รฉtat.

  • flyonthewall

    Very cool mix to intro the interview w/Tony

  • chukicita

    Excellent interview with our proprietor. It’s really wonderful to hear someone with the depth of knowledge to be able to address all of the questions the interviewer had with germaine, intelligent responses. I learned a lot. The point about the IRS not being motivated is huge.

    I think legislators might be highly motivated by the untapped millions in property and business income tax that is wasted every year by the IRS’s inaction on Scn Inc’s blatant disregard for upholding its part of the agreement.

    Not that they’re not motivated by the human trafficking, child labor and forced abortions. Sure they are. But a new revenue stream is what really lights up eyes in local, state and federal legislative offices. And they’re the ones who can put the stink eye on the IRS to get them going.

    • Betty

      This will never happen. The cult will just claim religious persecution by a Muslim President. lol. We would need a strong Attorney General like Robert Kennedy was to take them on like he did the Mob.

      • chukicita

        We will need a bunch of people who are willing to get on the horn with their legislators, write letters and vote in someone who is interested in protecting Americans from what basically amounts to a threat to our national security.
        Whether they do that by enacting legislation, or re-opening the IRS decision, or a congressional inquiry, I don’t care. But after more than 20 years of watching cult shenanigans and then watching them skate in court, I wish karma didn’t take so damn long.

  • Panopea Abrupta

    I looked in my crystal ball this morning.
    These were the headlines I saw. ๐Ÿ™‚
    The “Fun Times” are available by subscription only at the Underground Bunker.
    (ty Nat for the fork:)

    • Mymy88

      hahahaha, all lovely musings! Thank you.

      • joan nieman

        Very clever Pan!

    • cathy from encino

      Love the giant fork stuck in.

  • ProudEscapee

    Marty seems to have finally climbed out of the deep rabbit hole that us fellow ex-s have all achieved. When you come up and out to the fresh air, you’re still covered in dirt and carrying your baggage. The deeper you were, the dirtier you are. Marty was in deep. He’s been on a very public journey for all to see, where most others have done it privately. Regardless of what he did in the past, for him and Mike to stand up and speak out and take the slings and arrows is to be commended IMHO.. This is from someone who Marty tracked down back in the day and got me to return. Luckily I had just enough of the sweet smell of freedom to drive me to complete my escape shortly there after. This is a total mind F@%$ on so many levels, the unraveling takes years.

    • NOLAGirl

      Welcome to the Bunker. Help yourself to the snacks & drinks. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • joan nieman

        Welcome Proud. Good to see you here.

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      So true Escapee. You are not alone.

    • Allie

      Thank you for sharing your story and your compassion for Marty. Since you were directly involved with him, it is even more compassionate of you to be understanding toward him. Congrats on getting out of Scn after your taste of freedom. You deserve to be Proud. And welcome to the Bunker.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I am so glad you wrote this – so very glad you have arrived! That takes some doing – and then some. I hope nothing but the best for all the rest. You’ve earned it.

    • That’s how you beat the mind-fuck : by being what a clam can never be. Free, compassionate, yourself.

    • Ella Raitch

      Hope to hera more from you ProudEscapee – welcome!

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Breezin’ through the comments, I guess Marty still isn’t doin’ it perfectly right. Maybe it’ll help to remember there is a central and critical factor that is woven into the fabric of becoming a scientologist or any similar manipulative group and therefore one you will see is also part of anyone’s recovery process.

    In Tom Hank’s movie, “Big”, he has a lot of fun pretending to be a grownup, but it’s a movie, not real life. If you’ve ever known someone who was emotionally stunted or thrown back to an underdeveloped emotional age due to trauma, you how how terrifying it is to suddenly wake up and realize you now have to be a responsible adult and follow all the big boy rules and pressures of life – but you’re just a kid inside.

    Some enter scientology in that state. Most I knew did not – but I watched them, and later recognized myself, digress in emotional age. It makes sense because scientology is all about becoming Ron, emotionally stuck at age 12, as well being his research lab rats – to cure little boy Hubbard.

    Ask any Ex if they were the same person with the same critical thinking and reasoning skills and emotional age level when they peeled that first onion layer back on their first day of recovery and discovery. As terrifying as this process is to a child, imagine having to do it in front of thousands of people, most who only know you from a blog, and having to also deal with being judged and critiqued on every single utterance and move and decision you make along the way.

    Whatever else I may have thought of Marty in the beginning, I’m big enough to recognize when I see someone starting a journey as a frightened little boy, covering up that fear with arrogance and aloofness perhaps, and somehow emerging into someone with the kind of courage I can tell you I never had. If someone has the guts to find his own power and embrace it, who gives a damn if he didn’t do it perfectly. He did it in broad daylight in front of god and everybody. Recovery is messy business. It’s nasty and clumsy and stinks to high heaven. So what? I hope this family will find some peace and the kind of happiness that every family deserves. I’m proud of you, Marty, and Mosey has my utmost respect and gratitude. Thank you both.

    • Mrs. V.

      Hindsight is 20/20. You live and learn. Any number of cliches comes to mind when talking about where anyone was 20, 30, 40 years ago compared to where they are now. I’ve never been in any cult, but I can say with utter certainty that I’ve made mistakes, thought some things to be one way and then learned they were another and I’m confident that I’ll look back at myself years from now and have a different perspective on my present outlook. I’ve lost and gained friends throughout my life and will probably continue to do that.

      I think it’s worse when you hold onto a certain mind-set and never let it go, even though all you’ve experienced shows you otherwise.

      • shasha40

        And unlike Scientology’s ability to make one regress in many ways and become dependent , you think independently now and have learned from life and continue to grow .

    • Hamtaro

      Absolutely right, Hole. The only thing I’d add to your comment is forgiveness. If we here at the Bunker don’t embrace and practice abundant forgiveness, then we’re no better than the fanatical Scientology drones we despise and denounce on a daily basis.

      • Mrs. V.

        Forgiveness is a powerful thing, if only because it’s difficult, but a special thing for all parties involved once it can be reached.

        • shasha40

          But mostly , it Frees you !

      • shasha40

        Amen ! Hallelujah ! Too much ? …OK, I agree ! ๐Ÿ™‚

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Yep. It’s probably one of the positives that we lose from being a kid – kids forgive so easily. We forget that forgiveness is only for the benefit of the forgiver. If you continue to hate someone, even well deserved, it just means that you are still under their influence, only now you are harming yourself. That forgiveness is some kind of jedi mind trick;)

        • WildaBeast

          That’s true a lot of the time, Hole. But not all the time. I see a lot of people who have been badly hurt – by abusive or narcissistic parents, exes, friends, people who have been raped or otherwise brutalized, people who have been forever changed, the entire course of their life altered forever. And sometimes it takes them years just to get to the point where they can even admit that they’re angry and they have a right to be angry. And no sooner do they begin to express their anger than pressure starts up from outside sources: “How can you not forgive her? She’s your MOTHER!” “You HAVE to forgive them because anger will poison you/you’ll never really be free otherwise/etc.” And maybe if you’re obsessed with how much you hate that person or people, it’s true; obsession of any type is corrosive. But the pressure to forgive someone who hurt you that badly and enjoyed it, has no guilt, has no CONCEPT of what they did to you…how can you forgive someone, really get past the damage, if they can’t or won’t acknowledge that there WAS damage? If you try to talk to them about it and they say “That never happened!” or “You were responsive!” (to a rape victim who was unconscious) or “It was for your own good!”
          When it takes years to admit that you have a right to be angry in the first place, to be immediately confronted with the pressure to forgive, one-sidedly, before you’re ready…that can be really damaging. There are some situations where, in order to truly forgive, you’d have to embrace something that is the antithesis of yourself, and that can destroy a person.
          I’m not advocating being obsessed with something that happened in the past. I think it’s vitally important to explore the events, to understand what happened and why it happened as best you can, to get past the point of blaming yourself, to allow yourself to become whole again even though you can never be the same, to move on and get past it as best you can, and then turn your face forward to more pleasant things. And if someone understands what they did to hurt you and genuinely feels shitty about it, I think it’s important to talk to them about it and make a genuine effort to meet them halfway, to forgive them if you possibly can, for both your sakes. But not every situation CAN be met halfway.
          In those situations, I think that forgiveness isn’t always necessary – and sometimes it’s not even helpful. I’ll never forgive the people who raped me. It was wrong and it hurt me and it changed me and it fucked up my head and my relationships for years and the one I confronted about it won’t even admit it was a problem. To forgive that would turn me into someone other than who I am, and not in a good way. But at the same time, to be free of most of the damage it caused me is great. It took years of work, not just on my part, and every ounce of effort was worth it. To live free, without having to remember it all the time, is fantastic. For anyone who’s suffered similar damage, no matter how it’s inflicted, I hope and pray they can heal as much as I have, no matter what they have to do to get to that point. If that means needing to forgive, more power to them and I hope they find a way. If that precludes the possibility of forgiveness – I understand.
          No one thing is ever the right answer for all people in all situations at all times.
          People have a right to anger. Sometimes it’s even healthy. Obsession
          is never healthy, though – I cannot stress THAT point enough.

          (Sorry about this rant; the whole ‘forgiveness’ thing is a hot-button topic for me because my wife has been going through the whole thing where people are pushing her to forgive things that quite possibly can’t be forgiven because ‘oh you HAVE to!’, and it causes her so much unnecessary pain and mental turmoil and confusion. It hurts to watch.)

      • Graham Berry

        Well said and something I try to do myself, as I have publicly said, I have forgiven Marty and Mike for overseeing the Fair Gaming of me.

      • Lady Squash

        I give a lot of credit to Monique Rathbun for Marty’s growing realization that Hubbard was not the intellectual giant he may have once thought he was. As I recall Monique’s father was/is a psychologist and I believe Monique was/is a social worker. As such I imagine they would have introduced him to other philosophical traditions which most probably contained more wisdom than Hubbard could ever imagine. Tip of the hat to Monique. Kudos to both of them.

        • Zana

          I agree. She must be amazing.

    • L. C. Spencer

      I wish I had about a million upvotes to give this, THDNE. I made my own exit at 16, having been put down the rabbit hole at a much younger age, and the process of “peeling the onion” and growing up at the same time is excruciating. I don’t think I’m done even yet.

    • AnyOldName1

      Bingo! THDNE, you really nailed.
      “Recovery is a messy business” – the same thing is often said in addiction recovery. And just like many addicts, emotional growth and maturity is “stunted” at the point they entered the thought control or became addicted. And really, isn’t addiction (drug or alcohol) really mind control as well?

    • One Human

      So very well said THDNE.
      Now I am verklempt.

    • shasha40

      Points for the ” Big ” reference , wonderful analogy . So glad you all found ” your” way out . xoxo…

    • Cosmo Pidgeon

      So well said. It is messy (recovery) and we are all different. I don’t know Marty but I know the cult. He is finding his own way out of the jungle like a lot of us. There was no path. I wish him and his family well and thanks for standing up as a former exec. There are thousands of us out here of lesser notoriety. For those that seem not ready to forgive. He is standing up and taking the heat for many of us and many that have not yet realized what he and others are doing to make the exit easier. That’s good enough for me .Good people can change. It’s the bad ones that can’t or won’t. So cut him some slack. I’m a odd duck myself. And funny thing THDNE (I can’t call you Hole) I noticed the emotional age issue some time ago and thought it was just me. Things stopped at 19 and picked up again at 52 or so and it’s been fast forward ever since. Thank you, The Bunker, Tony, and all who do what they do to stop the abuse of another generation.

      • daytoncapri

        “and it’s been fast forward ever since” ^^^^^Like. There’s so much to learn. Regardless of our personal story, we are all children until the day we die.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Wow – that’s really something,Cosmo. Good for you. I think most here know what that takes.

    • Elle

      THDNE: This has touched me so deeply. While I have never been in Co$, I lost a dear friend to another cult. And, I myself lost my way in a ‘cult-like’ group that I was a part of, which I ‘escaped’ from 4 years ago. I type through tears, grateful for this beautiful day of freedom that I get to enjoy. And grateful to all those that have helped others escape whatever their ‘prison of belief’ was/is. I am also grateful to you, THDNE and all the others here at the Bunker that have allowed me to participate, as it has been quite cathartic.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        You made it t the Bunker – that says it all about you! And you’re welcome. And I am here because of so many others.

        • Elle

          ๐Ÿ™‚

    • PreferToBeAnon2

      Thank you for that comment, THDNE. Well thought out, well, written, and just… well!

    • Orglodyte

      I do love me some Bunker. Thanks THDNE, this is beautiful.

    • beauty for ashes

      so beautifully written, it brought tears to my eyes.

    • CobGatYour$$

      Hole, from your perspective, and any other long timer ex-clam please chime in, without judgement should Marty talk and confess some of the major shenanigans that he was involved with personally that could majorly impact and speed up the disintegration process of the cult of scion?

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Rathbun vs Scientology

        It doesn’t get more David and Goliath than that. And it’s never as simple as you think. I’ve had to learn that myself. When it comes to legal and court systems and laws and that whole industry, it is never simple black and white, fair and unfair. What it consistently is: very expensive in terms of money, stress, time, and big chunks of your life.

        • Tory Christman

          Yes THDNE and CobGatYour$$—-(and I got some of mine back, ftr:IAS and my BC $ on account) ๐Ÿ™‚ As far as “should Marty talk and confess”…

          First off, having had some people (no doubt covert ops, for many) tell me for years what I should and should not do—and blaming me for things that just are not true, I’m not one to try to tell Marty (or anyone else) what they should do. As has been described many times, stripping off mind control is like peeling an onion. For we who have been out—it’s been something to see Marty first leave, go on Nightline, speak out, then find Mosey, they have a child, move, realize he’s not even a Scientologist any more. That’s some good peeling, in my world, and I am proud of them!

          But, I agree with THDNE—-I, too, have learned that especially when it comes to legal and our court systems and laws—-it’s never simply black and white, nor is there any promise of true justice when it comes to Scientology.

          • Zana

            Yes. Look what happened to the Garcias.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            You said it. It’s hard for some to get the concept that justice is a matter for the justice dept, not the court room, and not when you’re up a billionaire, and most definitely not when you’re up against a sociopathic billionaire. If anyone has a bone to throw to the authorities, let’s get real – it would drag on for 20 years at least and by then, most will go, “David who?” ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Chocolate Velvet

      100% agreed.

    • Unex Skcus

      Beautifully expressed, THDNE. I have to remind myself sometimes to let upsets go, like “water under the bridge”.

    • Tory Christman

      Thank you Soooo much, THDNE! Perfectly said….I greatly appreciate
      your views and descriptions!

      ” If someone has the guts to find his own power and embrace it, who gives a damn if he didn’t do it perfectly. He did it in broad daylight in front of god and everybody. Recovery is messy business. It’s nasty and clumsy and stinks to high heaven. So what? I hope this family will find some peace and the kind of happiness that every family deserves. I’m proud of you, Marty, and Mosey has my utmost respect and gratitude. Thank you both.” From me, too.
      Love to all here, also ๐Ÿ™‚ <3 Tory/Magoo

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s really something, isn’t it – the Reckoning is here:)

    • Zana

      I agree with you, THDNE! I think he has done a superb job. It’s silly to expect ANYone to accomplish anything without making some “approximations” along the way (I don’t use the word “mistake” anymore.) That’s the process. I think that he’s done a spectacular job. And I think that he is DM’s worst possible enemy. He is the man who knows the exact soft spot to bring down the raging bull.

    • ComeToPresentTime

      Well said. Upvoted and cosigned as well. Rathbum and Rinder both did their share of dirt while inside the cult, helping to destroy who knows how many families, but they’ve done quite a fair bit since then in an attempt to atone for their hand in the CoS’s atrocities. Seeing Marty come to the realization he did in that moment was one of the more moving moments of the film. It kind of blows me away that the @FreedomEthics account can tweet out that they did all these horrible things without mentioning that they did them under direct instruction from the CoS. You have to think that whoever is handling this account and is being exposed to so much entheta in their day to day will blow soon themselves. Hopefully I’m right and said Sea Org slave will be posting here along side us soon.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Let’s hope they all will. The internal pressures must be at all time highs, and base level self preservation kicks in for most. Mike and Marty came back for them. We all did. I think everyone at this point is doing the best that they can in the moment. That’s saying something, I think – doing the best you can.

    • mockingbird

      Hubbard used many forms of age regression intentionally taken from hypnosis to make his victims/slaves enter a childlike trusting state . This state is open to magical thinking and submitting to authority with critical and independent thinking turned down or off . It is much easier to control an age regressed person . Hubbard used words , auditing , elements of indoctrination like demos and simple dictionaries to create this . Also telling people over and over that they could be “stuck on” the fake time track works as a hypnotic suggestion via repetition .

      The book Trances People Live has a very good description of how we enter and leave trances and how regression and many other symptoms work . I should caution that it also has a therapy that I find unworkable and potentially harmful but the author very simply describes trance phenomena in the first eighty or so pages . I recommend every ex read it .

    • Verve

      Well said. Your words always have power.

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      Amen.

    • L. Sammondson

      I’m often surprised at how immature L Ron Hubbard texts are, some appear to be written by someone with the mental age of a 14-16 year old.

  • In Hollywood Jennifer Lopez has a horrible reputation for cheating her managers and then they sue her. Over and over. Typical Scientologist even if she isn’t “practicing.” She also has a rep for psych issues.

    • Richard Grant

      Naughty Pope!

    • shasha40

      Making money off of the backs of others , it is all the same . Her Dad must have taught her well . * barf *

  • madame duran

    Four days to HBO’s airing of “Going Clear”…1 day to Thursday 2pm. Cult desperation must be reaching fever pitch! I’m so excited, I’m actually wanting to see more troll action.

    • Mrs. V.

      Bring it on, Trolls!

      • Ben Franklin

        Just a matter of time before someone like Just a guest shows up.

        • Mrs. V.

          Yeah, I’ve noticed a pattern: it’s usually around 2ish eastern time.

          • Ben Franklin

            Probably that is when they get their break from “saving the world”

          • shasha40

            Right before stats time ? It’s not Thursday . : D

            • Mrs. V.

              Well, yeah. On Thursdays it starts earlier, depending on where the poster is located. But throughout the rest of the week it appears to be early afternoon.

            • shasha40

              It is just so sad that they have someone coming here daily to get clobbered and there’s probably a ” hatting ” for the job .

            • Mrs. V.

              I try to be nice and simply ask questions about them (easier said than done often). But I admit I often laugh at some of the snarkier comments, though.

            • shasha40

              I’ he seen you in action . You are very gentle and crack me the f* ck up . We are human , though , and J&D’ing is just the way we happen to enjoy blowing off our frustrations that CoS continues to exist . I have no judgment for exes , under the radar or full on kool-aid drinker , I just want families that want to connect to be able to do so regardless of their status in the church and CoS and all it’s tentacles taken down and their tax exemption revoked. That’s not a lot to ask , is it ?
              PS : and for the rest to BLOW !!! Sorry , it is only 4 more days away ! A girl can dream , can’t she . I’ ve been good Santa ! ๐Ÿ˜€

            • Mrs. V.

              Thank you :).

            • shasha40

              Welcome . * curtseys*

            • One Human

              Extra snarky j&d served to those that come in with straight bullshit or faux naivete’;
              Warm soup & bread for those who are honest in their approach.

            • Mrs. V.

              Perfect methodology.

            • scottmercer

              “Hatting” is definitely one of the dorkiest LRH coinages.

    • shasha40

      Is that wrong ? I wanna smell the level of desperation they display . Please blow , just do it ! ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Miss Cabbage

    Question- Is there a plan for live-blogging during the HBO viewing?

    • Robert Eckert

      I’m sure the Bunker will be rocking, whether or not Tony is too busy with hostly duties to post himself.

      • shasha40

        Although , that’s never happened before … “Saturday …” ๐Ÿ˜€

    • shasha40

      Isn’t that a given ??? Where else will we be on such a sacred night ? ๐Ÿ™‚

      • MaxSpaceman

        … such a sacred and holy night ๐Ÿ™‚

        • shasha40

          Holiest of nights in the history of man , whole track talking ! : D

          • Robert Eckert

            An unprecedented new order of magnitude!

            • shasha40

              YES!!!!!!!!!!!! ( exclamation point tech abuse necessary ) : D

    • NOLAGirl

      Crazy all day Sunday, quieter during the two hours of the film (some people may comment during, I will not be). Expect it to blow the f**k up after the film is over. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Vaquera

        I’ll be watching with my best friend. I told her about Tony’s book and she is pretty excited to give it a go. She knows very little about the chult, but knows that I am a die hard Bunkonian. As we made our plan to watch on Sunday night she said with a smile, “I fully expect you to have your laptop aglow as you comment away throughout the show.” Gotta love a friend who gets that I get it, even if she herself doesn’t get itโ€ฆ.yet!

        • NOLAGirl

          As a certified Bunkeroo you’ll be able to see the exact moment when she does get it. As a woman, a mother (if she is one?), she will definitely get it at some point.

      • One Human

        And furthermore, not to put too fine a point on it, we will see expansion reach 4700+ comments! /s

    • Ella Raitch

      Does David Miscavige beat people?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    Red-X Red-X Red-X

    In a keep-busy make-work attempt at distraction,
    CL is being spammed, especially by LA, SF, Boston and Tampa.

    I love the smell of desperation in the morning.
    Take 5 and have at your region:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml

    The difference between the two clowns?
    Wavy Gravy is a humanitarian.
    Wavy Davy is a violent criminal.
    TICK TOCK, Tiny Tosser

    • Robert Eckert

      “Daily Wip” tab appears to be borked. Only new ad that comes up there for me is non-clammy (stack of discs for sale, one is “Scientology, An Overview” but another is Gibney’s “Enron, Smartest Guys in the Room”): http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/emd/4936105559.html

  • aurora50

    Once ‘Going Clear’ shows on Sunday, is there a schedule of repeats on HBO? or is that determined by ‘customer demand’?

    (am unfamiliar with how HBO works…)

    • Mrs. V.

      HBO will probably air it several times after the premier. It also may be available on HBO’s On Demand channel.

      • Elle

        Hopefully they will schedule it right before and/or right after a Tool Cruise movie; in my area they have been showing 2 of his movies quite a bit.

        • Mrs. V.

          That would be perfect.

    • shasha40

      They will show it many times a day on different HBO channels til you have memorized it , if you choose to . : D

    • BabySmurfette

      http://www.hbo.com/#/documentaries/going-clear

      A link to the full viewing schedule – being shown through April

      • aurora50

        Thank you! LOTS of showings…had no idea there were so many iterations of HBO!

  • Graham

    Off topic, but Bunkerites may be interested in this. I believe the 2013 documentary ‘Blackfish’ had, and is still having, the dramatic effect that we all hope for Gibney’s documentary. A class action is now being taken against SeaWorld with the aim of forcing them to give refunds to anyone who visited over the last four years:

    http://seekingalpha.com/pr/12931686-hagens-berman-consumer-lawsuit-alleges-seaworld-deceives-public-while-its-orcas-suffer

    Here in the UK I became interested in the SeaWorld controversy as there’s a petition on Change.org with over 266 000 signatures asking British Airways to stop selling trips to SeaWorld.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      When we first heard the news about this explosive film, some thought it might not have that much effect, maybe I was being overconfident, it being “just a documentary”. I responded about how throughout history, films and works of art have changed the course many times over. I was trying to think of some, and threw a few out, but I was trying to remember one that was more recent.

      Tony, being a true OT, immediately read my thoughts and answered “Blackfish”. Yes, that’s the one!

      • Mymy88

        Blackfish blew me completely away! Yes, my jaw dropped so far down it’s a wonder it did not unhinge, but my heart did break.

  • shasha40

    I just want to give thanks that after ,” Going Clear ” , airs , as a never-in , I will not be at the starting gate of the rabbit hole . To those of you just starting the Journey , Good Luck ! Scientology , years of watching and it’s still worse than you can ever think . Tick, Tock , tiny dick … March 27, 2015 , a day that will go down in Infamy , as a footnote to the cult that was CoS’s history .

    • Mrs. V.

      After all these years, my jaw is finally getting back to normal from all the jaw dropping that happened during my trip.

      • shasha40

        I’m surprised our jaws haven’t become unhinged ( although my brain has ) from jaw dropping that’s been required of them . Yet I am still amazed at the level of psychopathy DM reigns with and his attempts to confront and shatter his opposition. Some jobs are just too big , for the little guy ,with the little brain and the little …: D

  • Mockingbird

    I think it is so painful to watch how slowly many exes and indies give up the beliefs . I wish there were courses on components from critical thinking , rhetoric ,hypnotism ,scientific method , skepticism ,logical fallacies , comparing other thought reform programs, traumatic and malignant narcissists , abusive relationships and how cults are abusive relationships spread over groups for comparison and basic ideas and theories from social psychology and other tools to help rapidly enable ex Scientologists to see the methods Hubbard used and the methods to take apart their Scientology experience and reframe it in true terms without Hubbard’s doctrine or practices influencing them – well a guy can dream .

    • cdub

      When they had the Flag Down event I was thinking or hoping it would be more along these lines. Sessions hosted by experts taking apart the cult in thoughtful conversations. Money, tech, ethics, admin, staff, public, indie. Topics like these.

    • Dancing Cranberry

      I don’t know of any courses, but I think there are a lot of books that address recovery from cults, examining how you got caught and advice on how to extricate yourself and to recover. I’m reading “Take back your life: Recovering from cults and abusive relationships”. I find it very interesting. It helps me see how scientology attracts people and to examine and further my own recovery from the cultish religion I was raised in.

    • Billy Bob

      ^Yes, this.
      We need Philosophic psychology or Psychological philosophy.

    • Allie

      It would be great if community colleges and university life-long learning programs would offer classes in the above topics. Even community centers or senior centers could be a good venue to hold discussion opportunities. The difficulties may be in finding instructors for the classes but it would certainly be worthwhile.

  • Mark

    Refresh:

    • Vaquera

      Lovely

    • Allie

      Great one, Mark!

    • Mighty Korgo of Teegeeack

      Nice one.

  • outraged

    Made me fcking furious seeing J.Lo’s dad standing behind her. Why does JennyFromTheBlock put up with this? She is caught in the same ridiculous horrendous segregation of all time.

    I have never ever seen any organization as paranoid as $cientology. They spend ALL THEIR EFFING TIME on banning, spying, tricking, pulling out the rug from under you.

    $cientology does not exist anymore.
    All that is left are the ever amorphous rules about right and wrong.
    Do this not that this way or otherwise, out the door with you!
    And a kick in the backside on the way out.
    EVen IF you do it right you did it wrong.
    The Kult has become one big baby id slowly swallowing itself.

    • BeezleBobby

      “Even IF you do it right you did it wrong.”
      Yup. You can’t win.

  • Speaking of Marty, he just posted a recent interview he did with a guy on The Jolt on SiriusXM. Fantastic interview. Highly recommended.

    • MaxSpaceman

      it was posted yesterday evening. Great interview, yes.

  • Lucille Austero

    So this is today’s line from the Cherch:

    @Scientology I may not be a Scientologist, but it is so wrong the way people judge your faith. I support freedom! Not hatred, go Scientology— Amanda Partenheimer (@alp_art) March 25, 2015

    • Mrs. V.

      “I support freedom! Not hatred”. So do we bunkerites, Alex Gibney, Lawrence Wright and all the exes who have spoken out about it. The only difference is we’re not hypocrites about it.

      • I don’t care if their invisible sky-friend is an old guy with a beard or an alien with antenna. It’s what they do, especially to other people, that counts.

        • AnyOldName1

          Just said the same thing at Rinder’s blog. (Though not as eloquently :))

    • Jack99

      It’s clumsily written, in true scientology style.

      • Lucille Austero

        Poor Amanda. I checked out her FB page…no evidence of clamminess there…a lot of unicorns and cats, though.

        • noseinabk

          She is a big fan of the Backstreet Boys and TC. Oy.

          • Lucille Austero

            um yeah, so the backstreet boys are not really that bad, are they?

            • noseinabk

              I am sure they are great Lucille. My daughter loved them when she was about 12. 8-D.

        • Newiga

          Which reminds me *refresh for video spam*
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP4NMoJcFd4

    • Newiga

      She’s also been reetweeting Scientology’s tweets. “I may not be a Scibot buuuuuuuut…”

    • Robert Eckert

      Not a Scientologist Butt!

      • Lucille Austero

        Yes, Butt!!

      • noseinabk

        She appears to be a very silly (immature) person looking to get attention. On her FB page she calls the above comments a twitter war. I am not on twitter , so correct me if I am wrong in thinking that 4 responses are not a twitter war. HA

        “So, started a twitter war for sticking up for the freedom of religion! I support all faiths in this country, no matter what you believe, it is your choice.โ€ช#โ€Žfreedomโ€ฌ, โ€ช#โ€Žbeliefโ€ฌ, โ€ช#โ€Žfaithโ€ฌ”

        “Wow, does any one else, want to get in on the war. I just found out I have no rights at all. Its just sad that people are so judgmental. I just think everyone has blown the whole @Scientology kills out of proportion. The media destroys everything. I see a big supporter of love, life, and happiness. And thats what I need in my life. Head over to twitter, to tell me how stupid and crazy I am.”

        • Lucille Austero

          I think she is a little confused.

          • Sejanus

            I think she is a twit.

    • Dr. Hunky Jimpjorps

      The way Twitter works, any tweet starting with a Twitter username only appears in the feeds of the people who also follow that user. So, she’s literally preaching to the choir here, since nobody who doesn’t already follow Scientology’s account will see that tweet without looking for it.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      and a huge Tom Cruise fan – and Backsreet Boys fan.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      Typical straw man: misdirecting legitimate criticism as loathsome hatred and unsupportive of freedom.

      I recall another young lady who attempted the same thing, same argument (on youtube) and it backfired on her spectacularly. Chris Shelton deconstructs that video and familiar tactics used starting at 17:15

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtpvcIsaB88

      • One Human

        Oh, another video by that bigot? /s
        Just kidding, we love Chris!

    • Missionary Kid

      My answer is that I support one’s freedom, too, but not the “freedom” to fuck over people, like $cientology does.

      It’s not the beliefs, it’s the actions that I want stopped.

    • scottmercer

      I may not be a Scientologist…or I may be, and am just phrasing the sentence that way to make you think that I’m not.

      • Lucille Austero

        precisely.

    • KNMF

      Poor Amanda…and OSA slaves and Scilion celebs, and the shut in Scientology public with entheta swirling all over. They’re doing all the dirty work. Putting themselves out there.
      http://i58.tinypic.com/29ok8px.jpg

  • RK

    It takes going through many layers of changes. Marty is just following the usual path in a very public way. I think that as his non-Scientology world gets bigger and richer in experience, he will find that the influence of Scientology over his life will diminish accordingly. The hardest part is letting go of all your Scientology friends – not the friendship, necessarily, but the power of judgment and regulation of your life that they try to have over you. They become acquaintances that you have to be careful around. Don’t say the wrong thing, don’t tell them about your migraine or the medication you are taking for it, don’t tell them about that class on mindfulness you took or the yoga class you are attending. However, Scientologists will disconnect and disappear from your life and you have to eventually stop pretending and let them go. After a while, I finally understood how small Scientology is. It is tiny. The freedom to talk to people and read and consider different ideas slowly returns – almost undetectable in gain – until Scientology is just one of many ideas available.

    • daytoncapri

      Mindfulness – subject of many scientific papers, positively regarded. Easy to validate with a simple on-line search. I’m watching a DVD course now. Helpful. Easier than Scientology.

      • Kim O’Brien

        i have been doing the mindfulness meditations for about 4 months now . I love it . Solo..internal ..calming…all without guilt / judgement . One of my uncles was in Vietnam ( along with my dad..one Marine, one Army ) and he saw things that almost totally destroyed him . He was one of the ppl in Boston who was lucky enough to be in one of the first programs back in the 70’s. It saved his life .

        • daytoncapri

          Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

        • Dancing Cranberry

          Kim, your uncle must have taken one of Jon Kabat-Zinn’s earliest programs?

          • Kim O’Brien

            yes ! almost turned him into a hippie …almost ๐Ÿ˜‰

            • Dancing Cranberry

              People who now teach MBSR are pretty mainstream, but I can see how it might have been seen as hippyish in those days. I like that it is science-based and secular in its approach.

            • Kim O’Brien

              me too ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • RBE

    COB Goes AWOL (Refresh)

  • Simi Valley

    Just spoke to a friend who has one foot in the cult and one foot out … some people don’t know the person’s status but the person has been written up to Ethics for being connected to someone else… blah blah … this person has family in the cherch so has to deal with this f’ing nightmare. Nice going, cult!

    • Kim O’Brien

      i find people who are “ethics officers” are just absolute slimeballs. I have ZERO compassion for them ….sadistic , horrible , abusive, disgusting sacks of skin . I am so sorry for your friend .

      • Simi Valley

        They are trained by the midget to be like that; total robots.

        • Kim O’Brien

          no ..they WANT that job . Can’t blame it all on a guy who only comes up to my tits .

          • Dale A.

            Kim,
            I know you get trashed a lot by another contributor here. But I want you to know that I always dig what you have to say.

            • Kim O’Brien

              thanks ..;) that guy was an ethics officer …so there ya go . I think everyone here is pretty cool too . The more ppl who are out of this cult the better …no matter if they trash me or not .

            • shasha40

              I love you , Kim ! Waiting on you and ,” The water cooler girls” , album to come out ! hee hee

            • Kim O’Brien

              ๐Ÿ™‚

            • Sejanus

              Don’t sweat some knucklehead from a blog who is douchy.
              You always have come across straight up to me.

            • Eileen

              He still thinks he is an ethics officer, he is the person here who most embodies the arrogance of an Active scientologist. Maybe he will recover in a few years. In the meantime I will continue to skip his postings.

            • shasha40

              Ditto !

          • Lucille Austero

            What Dale said, Kim ๐Ÿ™‚

          • shasha40

            Scientology , helped them with that .

            • Kim O’Brien

              true ..but they like it

            • shasha40

              They are imitating ntheir Leaders , though . Psychopathic , narcissistic A- holes ! Yeah , that fits the situation . : D

            • Missionary Kid

              I’ve decided that every time that person trashes someone, and he particularly attacks women, (although someone pointed out that he attacked me and I’d forgotten about it) that I’ll point out that he’s acting like a $cientologist. Here’s what I wrote yesterday to him:

              http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/24/going-clear-paul-haggis-pens-a-description-of-the-scientology-experience-you-wont-forget/#comment-1925685640 (I don’t know if he’d already signed off by that time).

              I wrote it because I was PISSED. I had seen where he went after you a couple of days earlier, but I’d been in and out of the Bunker, so I didn’t understand what was between you two.

              In the meantime, I’d talked to a few female Bunkaroos off line, I came to understand the size of his douchiness, so I was locked and loaded when he went after i-Betty.

            • Kim O’Brien

              yeah …going after i-Betty …not cool . She is a total sweetheart . That one pissed me off too. Great post defending her …..there are good people here

            • joan nieman

              I missed yesterday but now I will definitely go and look it up.

            • Eileen

              That is exactly right, he acts like a scientologist!

            • cathy from encino

              Thank you MK for speaking truth to coward.
              Had no idea this had gone on so long that so many of you noticed it.

          • Sejanus
    • shasha40

      This shit is what burns my buns !!!

    • Missionary Kid

      Ultimately, people remember the pain when they’re in. When they finally are out, the anger rises at the people who perpetrated it and at LRH.

      • chukicita

        Speaking as an outsider, I can only imagine that there is so much to be angry at. First DM, then LRH. And sorting out all the individual people who were doing their bidding, that caused the pain.

        And then, hopefully, maybe forgiveness. So one can go on and enjoy life. That is not to be taken to mean absolving anyone of responsibility. But *forgiveness*, you know?

        • Missionary Kid

          Forgiveness of others starts with forgiveness of ones self and trying to make amends.

          • chukicita

            You know it, MK.

  • David E Love

    Another great story, thanks Tony … COUNTDOWN … tick to *TALK* about around the globe. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • RBE

    Bankruptcy (refresh)

  • Science Doc

    I’m waiting and watching to see what if anything the LA Times does this weekend. In the past 20 years they have been mostly toothless wrt Scientology. They skipped reviewing Going Clear either at Sundance or in its qualifying theatrical run. Only exception was Sunday a week ago where they have a two sentence description of each and every film that opened in town the previous Friday. LA Times hopefully is waiting to cover Going Clear as a television event. If so, coverage could happen Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Fingers crossed.

    • shasha40

      That’s OK , come Monday morning they’ll be regretting it . Too bad , no backsies ! ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Science Doc

        The LA Times always has an opportunity and rationale for covering Scientology, much like the Tampa Bay Times. If they do nt cover the movie this weekend they can always do a news or investigative story on the impact.

        • shasha40

          Now that I would love to see . I would love to see more news outlets take Scientology seriously and report on it’s insidious nature instead of only TC . I welcome it ! Dissemination , that’s the word !

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            Remember when Katie Holmes did her stealth escape from the Cruise and his cult leader BFF? I stood up and took notice – all of a sudden major media outlets around the globe were not devoting hundreds of inches on Cruise’s hairstyle or outfits or any of that kind of fluff. Suddenly, instead I was seeing the Cadet Org, the RPF, the child slave labor issues and most of all, Disconnection horrors in print in many articles covering Katie and her master escape strategy. Public wanted to know Why she had to buy a throwaway phone.

            Any publications that Don’t give this documentary an in depth cover are going to look odd. These publications want readers for their advertisers. If LA Times does Not cover this with any kind of major feature dimension, I would think their advertisers are going to be the ones to start asking questions.

            • shasha40

              Hello , people !!! Lol : D

            • texasexpat

              I was flipping through my daughter in laws US Weekly, because Katie was on the cover. Right in the middle of their article about Katie and her new boyfriend, they had inserted an article about scientology and Going Clear, complete with a photo of big blue.

          • Mymy88

            I’m counting on it!

    • Jgg2012

      20 years ago the Times did a series on Scientology, concluding that it was basically a Ponzi scheme, where newbies rack up huge debt and then try to recruit others with incredible testimonials to pay off their debt. I don’t think that they need to say anything new about it.

  • Deb

    I would love to hear Leah Remini’s thoughts on Going Clear!

  • Jgg2012

    There are 5 steps in a crisis: denial, anger, blame, acceptance and resolution. The last 2 don’t always happen: for Miscavige, for example, the people leaving are just SPs, period, and they don’t understand his greatness. He stays at the 3d step (blame). Independent Scientology seems to be a segue or way station for those at step 3. After blaming Miscavige, they still think that everything else about Scientology was fine. After time, they accepted the fact that it wasn’t and resolved to tell everyone else what they now realize. Some people leaving (like Chris Shelton) are already at step 5.

  • RBE

    Last one….Pulitzer (refresh)

    • One Human

      Hell’s Yeah!!

    • shasha40

      You have a time machine ?? ? * looks at shoop in awe , sees the future *

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    On another note, I would borrow Lucille’s happy pants and dance in them all day if Tiziano Lugli would produce a new, awesome “Shit Scientologists Say about Going Clear”. If you’re listening, Tiz. For newbies, check this vid of his out and you will see what I mean. For oldies and Ex’s, be prepared to wet those pants laughing: (or, like me, cringing in the corner – it’s just too real).

    https://youtu.be/gNFMnieVEk4

    • shasha40

      Seconded !!!

    • Mrs. V.

      One of my favorite videos.

    • HillieOnTheBeach

      I’m slightly disturbed that I understood it.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        That’s a good sign. I will Never get how anyone outside scientology can stand trying to figure out the crazy talk coded language. So I should amend my Wish to say to Tiz to make it so only a few sci words are used and explained in a video. Most of what we are hearing is “ENTHETA ENTHETA ENTHETA!”

        • HillieOnTheBeach

          “I will Never get how anyone outside scientology can stand trying to figure out the crazy talk coded language.”

          It’s not that we try to figure it out, it’s a hazard of sticking around here.
          *hardhat*

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That makes more sense.

        • One Human

          As a never-in, it’s easier to absorb than those held captive in course rooms, word clearing and clay demoing, with the threat of ethics hanging over you.
          We learn as we wish, not as we are forced.

        • chukicita

          Maybe someone sitting on a toilet – “I just blew so much charge.”

        • chukicita

          I think the first one is perfect – the audience is Scis who are out. Wogs (like me) can learn, and I think vids like this are the BEST way to learn the lingo.

      • Nancy Law

        I’m relieved that I didn’t get about 35% of it … it gives me hope that I no longer can access that pile of words, abbreviations and utter crap ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Suzy

      I’ll get my happy pants out and ironed and ready to go, just in case…

    • BabySmurfette

      It just never gets old ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Drat

      That’s so delicious. I laughed my head off first time I saw it.

    • chukicita

      “…and a really cool horse.” – HAHAHAHAHAAAA!

      “You’re just being reasonable.” – BWAAAA!

      How had I not seen this?! So many familiar faces made me smile just for that, but the TC impression was just – whoosh! Oh, thank you Hole for my daily dose of smile!

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Tiz does Tom so well. And yeah, not sure how many got that reference, but Mike Rinder playing the straight man, and the horse. For those who don’t understand the horse thing, the IAS does this dorky renaissance/warrior thing with a real jerk who rides in on a horse at some events.

        Here he is posing in front of the Super Powers Double Cross that many a true believer paid for – and I do mean many, right DM?

        http://i.imgur.com/hVgtLH8.jpg?1

        • One Human

          That $#!* reminds me more of the Ku Klux Klan than Knights of the Roundtable.

        • Peggy oh!

          Oh Thankyou for explaining that! I was really confused!

        • scottmercer

          Is that some long buried vestige of “Excalibur”?

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            It’s something long buried, yes. Other than that, I guess.

        • joan nieman

          It takes some nerve for imbeciles to portray the Knights of The Round Table. Disgusting!

        • God

          Nazi Guy

    • splog

      Splog: (to Mrs Splog, a never-in) I just had to ask her “Please tell me I never sounded like that all those years ago!!!!”
      Mrs Splog: “You used some of the words when explaining things but no you never sounded like *that*”

      Whew, dodged a bullet there ๐Ÿ™‚

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Know what you mean. Wish I could say the same. I have this one clear as a bell recollection of one particular cognitive dissonance moment when I could practically hear the bubble cracking in the distance. I was on staff talking to another staff in the reg office with a room full of slaves, I mean employees, I mean resort volunteers.

        I was giving an answer and at the end, (play crackling noises in the background here), I said, “Do you realize I just spoke an entire paragraph’s worth of nothing more than a blur of acronyms?”. Everyone in the room stopped, like in the movies, just froze, turned around to look at me like I had just uttered gutter profanities, then just as quickly whipped their rubbernecks back around and their own bubble talk in acronyms fired back up in high volume. Suddenly, I realized: I sounded just like them.

        At that time, I had no idea what heinous crime I had just committed, only that I had slipped up somehow. It would be a few more months before I was made to realize what an ogre I was – some good little soldier had reported this blasphemous offense via a Knowledge Report to Ethics.

        Another Scientology Hallmark Moment – brought to you by: Orwell. I mean Hubbard.

        • splog

          Oh don’t get me wrong, in the org and around other scns I could acronym-speak as well as the next one. But there’s one I always refused to use: “my 2D”

          Good fucking god, I hated that word. A woman in my life is a wife, a girlfriend, the person I’m dating; but NEVER EVER “my 2D”. She’s a woman for god’s sake, she walks, lives, breathes and has feelings, she deserves better than some stupid title like 2D.

          OT: Incidentallly, I’ve been looking for a good word for what Mrs Splog and I are to each other. We’ve been together 8 years and live as a couple, but aren’t married and have no intention to get the paper either. We’re quite happy together and have lasted longer than both of our earlier marriages combined, so what doI call her? I say she’s my wife but she’s not really,a nd a girlfriend is what my 18 year-old son has. “Partner” leans dangerously close to “2D”. I still need a word.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            How about “Love of my Life” – rhymes with wife, but leaves out the legal.

            • splog

              I like this one the most ๐Ÿ™‚

              Which reminds me, I don’t buy her flowers often enough, and she really likes flowers. Actually what she likes is me taking the time and caring enough to buy the flowers, but she still likes the flowers.

              And those still in would never bother with something as stupid as buying your wife flowers – the money could have gone to the IAS!

            • April Moonlight

              oh, please buy her some flowers! ๐Ÿ™‚ red roses, mixed with pink and white carnations, a daisy or two, some ferns, or anything colorful and pretty. thank you!

            • splog

              She doesn’t like roses, she thinks they are over-rated and too connected to Valentines Day. But then again she owned a fine restaurant and Valentine’s Day is the worst day of the year there (worse than Xmas day…)

              But she loves daisies, and any colorful flower that opens up and shows all it’s petals. And those long white elegant tubular flowers that like damp shady spots (the ones I can never remember the name of)

          • Eileen

            As long as you don’t refer to her as your lady. If she is like a wife why not use that?

            • Robert Eckert

              Or refer to her as your old lady. I never understood how anyone got away with that one.

            • splog

              That won’t fly – she’s 15 years younger than me!

          • HillieOnTheBeach

            Partner-in-life?
            Partner-in-love?

          • arcinva

            You could say “significant other” or SO for short.*

            *I only suggest it because I find the overlap in acronyms SO Sea Org vs SO Significant Other amusing in your situation. ๐Ÿ™‚

            The Swedes have a word, sambo, for a domestic partner. Too bad we don’t have a good word in English. But, honestly, unless she strictly objects to the term “wife”, that’s what I’d use. It seems to me what you guys have is a marriage, even if it hasn’t been run through the legal system.

        • Mymy88

          Eghads!

      • Spoken like a true lady

        ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Once you see Marty in the film, it will hopefully help everyone understand why I say that everyone in Scientology is a victim in their own right. Even Miscavige was dragged into that bullshit by his parents.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      And some were sucked into that bullshit Because of their parents!

  • David E Love

    *SHARED FROM a First Nations FRIEND* – I hope this is on topic because it indeed, does address what many ex-Scientolgist who ‘escaped’ – were harassed, Fair Gamed and such, endured. The journey OUT can be, at times, quite distressing and turmoil, and for me, I needed friends I could trust and confide it, just like the people that Marty Rathbun helped. Here is the POST FROM a FRIEND TODAY: “”If you are going through dark times….keep hope. Hope is often the very thing that is needed to persevere and thrive. As long as there is hope, there are possibilities for the sunshine to find you. Keep moving forward… rest if you must but do not give up. Keep looking upwards…. for only looking behind will not get you to your destination in your journey. Keep looking for the beauty of your life… for it is there even if you have to search it out. Keep searching for the promises that each new day can hold…. for hanging on to yesterday prevents today from being all that it can be. With hope…. anything is possible. Without hope…. nothing is possible. If love is the best medicine in the world then hope is the method in which to apply it. They go hand in hand through life. If dark clouds surround you, if you feel lost on your life’s path, if you feel as if you are losing hope…. then borrow the hope of another. And if you know someone that is experiencing these things…. then please lend them your hope in your words of understanding and encouragement. Together we face all of life’s storms so that none should face them alone. Many blessings and much love to you all.”

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      These are inspiring times. I’m proud of you to, Mr. Love. and all those who came back to give the rest a helping hand. They were hoping for us to come back even if they couldn’t articulate it or admit it. It’s our turn to be Their hope.

    • shasha40

      Beautiful . Thank you for sharing , David and for all you’ve done shedding the light on Narcono/ Scientology …

    • chukicita

      Aho!

  • Pierrot

    *** RED X +โ€“+ ! Pierrot screws up ! +โ€“+ RED X ***
    Good day everybody,
    I have managed to lose the whole of the DailyWip, (which is the source of all the other reports).
    Fortunately, I have also managed to partly recreate it from some archiving, BUT it only contains the last 4 days, redundancy have been lost (flagged for removal, expired, deleted) and you might find the odd non co$ and counter ads.
    Hopefully we will build the list up again and clean up as we go along. I am hoping that I will discover the WHY and correct it!
    Thank you for your support .
    RedX spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-Kvg78kCcvo5gL7UfPcmhmbsagTNtdj0y2LAiHVFrCU/pubhtml
    (F5, โ€ฆfor) Black Panther by TeeCee enhanced by DodoTheLaser for RedX, and flickred by Aeger Primo https://www.flickr.com/photos/120371503@N05/15108764803/in/set-72157642802079293

  • Kim O’Brien
    • Ella Raitch

      Yep – he’s a bit of all right

  • Ben Franklin
    • Beth

      big bonus points for Marty doing this interview on the LGBT channel of SirusXM

    • Newiga

      Thanks, BF. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Vaquera

      Listening now. Thx Ben.

    • Newiga

      This is an excellent interview! Marty’s journey into and out of Scientology have obviously been rough journeys, full of bumbs and dark valleys. I wish him happiness, peace and serenity.

  • nottrue
    • Vaquera

      This makes me so gosh darn happy.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Gosh darn? Are we getting all religious in here – or is this another sign of the Reckoning?

        • Vaquera

          Nah. Just feeling my inner cowgirl. It’s been rodeo 24/7 here for the past 3 weeks, ended on Sunday. Boy howdy, are my boots tired!

          • Vaquera

            (f5)

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Ahhhhhhh. OOooooh.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Page. Six. Tom. I hope your fans aren’t the kind that read.

      • Lucille Austero

        I bet Nic and Katie read page 6. I bet Nic and Katie are in pretty good moods these days.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          I’ll bet All their pants are happy pants now.

    • noseinabk

      It is only going to get worse for him after Going Clear is out. Found these at SPs R US.

      Flying Space Jesus Has A New Trailer

      โ€œSo let me get this straight: Youโ€™re a woman? With a vagina? But somehow youโ€™re not locked in the engine room of a ship? Could you excuse me a second?โ€ *runs out of room screaming*
      Scientology has been in the news a lot lately thanks to the HBO documentary Going Clear, but you know what will make you forget all about the slave ships and re-education trailers? A fifth Mission: Impossible movie nobody asked for! Just look at this trailer full of Tom Cruise doing karate, his own stunts, and womenโ€™s bodies as he so often does. Itโ€™s like watching his real life. Because it is! And Iโ€™m not just saying that because my familyโ€™s being held in a bunker in Tucson. These are my own free thoughts that an OT IV with special clearance to board the Shuttle of Knowledge didnโ€™t make me say. End transmission. Excellent work. Iโ€™ll lower my gun now. Wait, why are you still typing? Youโ€™re not supposed to write this. XENU CHO-
      http://www.thesuperficial.com
      ————————————————————————————————————————–
      “I spent an evening with him [Tom Cruise], he’s dumb as a cigar!” says Jean-Pierre Mocky, a French film director, actor, screenwriter and producer. “And he’s in the Church of Scientology. Now that takes the cake! He’s really stupid!”
      http://www.voici.fr/news-people/actu-people/jean-pierre-mocky-a-rencontre-tom-cruise-il-est-con-comme-un-cigare-556303

      • Tracy Schmitz

        can anyone translate this to english, this article?

  • Panopea Abrupta

    A visit to Alexa pre-rush hour (I want to have a comparison for after next Sunday night ):

    Bunker and $ci rankings
    – 112,000 th in the WORLD does not mean 47x, DM

    Then Bunker and $ci traffic sources
    – fail, Dave, epic fail –
    >14% from India where there are 47 $cilons max.
    I know you have to use the whales’ money for something.
    But buying clicks like Kirstie buys Facebook friends,
    c’mon.

    • Lucille Austero

      1. The stupid midget can’t even buy his way into Tony O territory.
      2. There are an awful lot of Bunkerites *cough cough* that are currently “working.”

      • Hey! I live in the Netherlands and I have a day job. (Parttime job, don’t have to work weekends and mondays.) Right at this moment I can do what I want. ๐Ÿ˜›

        • One Human

          And I bet you have adequate toilet paper supplies.

      • Drat

        We get paid by Big Pharma, remember?

        • Lucille Austero

          And our monitors are cleverly situated so no one can see ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Observer

        Guilty!

        • Lucille Austero

          (i knew you were)

          • Observer

            Pfffffft

      • Any particular reason the Bunker should be so popular in Switzerland?

        • Robert Eckert

          “Basel Ideal Org” was supposed to open recently (the event does not seem to have occurred; there have been inquiries if anybody here knows whether it might happen soon)

          • Here’s what I came up with, an anti-CoS blog from Switzerland:

            Blog against Scientology
            Documented and commented by Wilfried Handl …
            Skip to Content
            HOME THE SECRET OT LEVELS … IMPRINT / CONTACT … MY BOOKS AS PDF … PROJECT BASEL … DEATHS IN SCIENTOLOGY … TV DOCUMENTARIES AND MOVIES ABOUT … ABOUT ME … WIKIPEDIA-SPECIAL

            Project Basel (40): called New opening date and the stettlersche “expressiveness” …
            3 replies
            03 25032015 Jรผrg Stettler

            In view of the sects “box” in Basel, a date for the opening of which was known: It is the end of April 2015. so far, which has not yet agreed on Scientology by a specific date, but at least the rough time frame were good. confirm informed sources. In the next few days is to follow a formal opinion on Scientology Basel – we’ll see …

    • Allie

      Good thinking, Pan. This should provide some very useful insights about the impact of the film.

    • anoni81b4u

      That is INTERESTING !
      Thank you for posting that.

    • Ben Franklin

      Lets put it this way. Justin Beiber is more popular than Scientology. Beiber has way way more twitter followers than scientology has members

    • edge

      The Freedom Media and Ethics Twitter feed, which is harassing regular twitter users with promoted tweets linking to Freedumb magazine has just 501 Twitter followers. To put that in perspective:
      Alex Gibney has over 10,900 followers
      Lawrence Wright has over 10,500 followers
      Tony O has 3,620 followers
      Laura Turner (Religion News Service blogger who SCN tried to harass for her review of Going Clear) has 3,551 followers
      Mike Rinder has 1,038 followers.
      Marty Rathbun has 444 followers
      These are all people who don’t have slick websites or near unlimited funds behind them. Twitter is free. “Command Intention” could be to get as many scis to sign up as possible and promote Freedumb mag. And this is the best they can do? As they say on ESPN, “C’mon Man!”

      • Lucille Austero

        Well, they had 502 followers until they blocked me.

      • One Human

        Speaking of which, I just noticed Tony tweeted them earlier:

        .@freedomethics Did you really tweet a photo of Sara Goldberg with a target on her face? Is that supposed to win people to your cause?
        Any info on this?

        • Peggy oh!

          Wow. Following the Sarah Palin play book is always a good move.

        • KNMF

          They’re not trying to win people. They’re militarizing.

    • Ella Raitch

      Wow Australia ranks third for the Bunker!

  • nottrue

  • NOLAGirl

    O/T: Just talked to Miss Tia, she says Hello. She is in computer hell right now and isn’t sure when she’ll be back online, but will check in when she can. ๐Ÿ™‚

    • 1subgenius

      If you talk again remind her of what I told her. (She’ll know.)

      • NOLAGirl

        Will do.

        • Baby

          and tell her we love her..

      • Lurkness

        Are you still online following thread?

        • 1subgenius

          What’s up?

          • Lurkness

            Going to erase this (even though she has posted before) it’s tia@misstia.com Her address is also at http://www.misstia.com and the link with the letter about the vivian that should be kept away from children. If you need help with postage let me know.

            • 1subgenius

              Gotcha.
              btw what the hell is all that vivian stuff?
              Edit: nevermind, I read it.

            • Lurkness

              LOL, you know her, always on a project or three. Always interesting. She posted that address here last fall, but I would wait for confirmation too. Thanks for following up. Very nice of you!

            • 1subgenius

              Just waiting for the word.

      • Mrs. V.

        OT – did you find a viewing party?

        • 1subgenius

          Not yet.

          • Mrs. V.

            Well then, you should come to my house if you’d like. You are welcome to join us. How do we exchange information without doing it here in the comments?

            • 1subgenius

              Thanks, that’s a definite possibility.
              I don’t know how to exchange info, but, since I’m familiar with the neighborhoods, you could just say what time and something like “go west from Woodward on the street Cilla’s (lol) is on. 4th house on the right.” (Boy I hope I didn’t guess right, that would be scary)
              Kind of old school and cloak and dagger, but works for me.

            • Mrs. V.

              When going south on Woodward, you’ll go under 696. At the 2nd turn-around you’ll go north and then turn right on the street that is flanked by a funeral home on the south corner and a re-sale clothing store on the north corner. Go to the 2nd st. after the rail road tracks and turn left (there’s a big brick building directly across from it). My house is about half-way down the block on the left (don’t know the number of houses, but a blue Chrysler 300 is in the drive way. Huge porch, the length of the house. I’ll be on it.) Please be there between 7 & 7:30. Or, I can meet you at the parking lot between the library and the Emory at 7 and you can follow.

              I need to warn you though, we’ll be watching with 4 other people who don’t know nearly as much as we do, I have to dogs (one of which is very barky, which is why I want to start early so she’ll shut up by 8) and only one bathroom. But I do have DVR so we can pause at any time. ๐Ÿ™‚ Oh! And only one bathroom. Too much, do you think? I hope I’m not stalked. ๐Ÿ™

            • 1subgenius

              Kitty corner across the street from the fire hydrant? Shed in back?
              I’ll find it. I’ll post something here if I’m not going to make it.

            • Mrs. V.

              To be honest, I don’t know where the closest fire hydrent is, but there is a shed in the back. I’ll be on-line and look for you if you can’t find it.

            • 1subgenius

              I’m having qualms about the mix of a barky dog and trying to watch a movie.
              I could bring some Benadryl. Works on babies.

            • Mrs. V.

              I get it. We’ve used benadryl before but now we have a calming treat we give her. She usually calms down about a half hour after everyone shows up.

            • 1subgenius

              Well I was just kidding about the benadryl, so that’s funny.
              Probably see you then.
              By the way have you seen the Google street view of your street.
              If yours is the house I guessed, they got a picture of you.
              They got a pic of someone at their door.
              Do you remember seeing the Google car go by?

            • Mrs. V.

              Yes that’s me. I saw the car right after that was taken.

            • 1subgenius

              Freaky.
              You’re the second person I know that got caught by google at their own home.

            • 1subgenius

              It’s not looking good for coming over tonight.
              I would be on a tricycle or motorscooter, and the weather report is calling for rain and snow. I’ll keep an eye out for any big change in the forecast.

            • Mrs. V.

              Ok. We’lol be here if you change your mind.

            • 1subgenius

              OK.

            • 1subgenius

              oooops, accidentally ran off with your laser pen…..I’ll drop it off sometime…..

    • Todd Tomorrow

      Tell her hello from me,too.

    • beauty for ashes

      Miss Tia, aww, Nola, can you just tell her that, having your car or your computer break down on you can feel like the universe is trying to punish you personally, and I know her car has been a pain in the ass recently too. I’m pretty certain she has done nothing to deserve this. And if we could sue the universe for unjust punishment there would be a Bunker full of people who would testify for her. ((hugs)))

    • Sidney18511

      I would feel like something was really missing in my life without my computer.

      Hope she get this fixed ASAP. The bunker ain’t the same without Miss Tia.

      Thanks for letting us know NOLAGirl!