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HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

HOW SCIENTOLOGY COERCED A CHILD TO HAVE AN ABORTION: THE LAURA DECRESCENZO FILES

—————- In anticipation of her biggest day in court yet, Laura DeCrescenzo and her attorneys hit the Church of Scientology with 928 pages of new filings —————- Details from 18,000 pages of evidence show how Scientology manipulated a child to keep her working under slave-like conditions —————- A key document describing DeCrescenzo’s unwillingness to have her coerced abortion is missing from the evidence Scientology was ordered to produce By Tony Ortega Wednesday afternoon, Laura DeCrescenzo filed explosive new information in her four-year legal odyssey against the Church of Scientology, submitting 928 pages of new declarations and exhibits in anticipation of a crucial October 23 hearing in her lawsuit against the church which alleges abuse, including allegations that she was forced to have an abortion at only 17 years of age. Key to the new filings is information gleaned from thousands of pages of previously secret files that the church fought mightily to keep under wraps. But on Monday, the U.

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Jenna Miscavige Hill Reacts to the News of the Arrest of her Aunt, Denise Gentile

Jenna_Miscavige_HillWe reached out to Jenna Miscavige Hill for a comment about the stunning news that showed up this weekend in the Tampa Bay Times about her aunt, Denise Gentile, who is the twin sister of Scientology’s leader, David Miscavige.

Joe Childs reported for the Times that Gentile was arrested in January for DUI and marijuana possession, and in his investigation of the arrest, he found that she and her husband Gerald had rented out run-down properties that were used by tenants for drug dealing. One tenant claimed that he paid Denise rent in the form of marijuana “blunts.”

Jenna, meanwhile, has been on a months-long publicity campaign to support her memoir, Beyond Belief, which was published in February. In it, the niece of David Miscavige and Denise Gentile describes the difficulties of her upbringing in the church. She portrays her uncle as a cowardly bully, but Denise Gentile gets a more sympathetic treatment. How, we asked Jenna, does she feel about this weekend’s news?

She sent us the following statement…

My perspective is that it is sad. I am sad for whatever massive conflict and sorrow would drive her to this (and there is much of it in her life), and I am sad that if it is true, it sounds like she needs help.

Obviously, someone who is a super Kool-Aid drinker wouldn’t be doing many of the things Denise has done. So to that degree, I applaud a part of her for acting human despite her upbringing and surroundings in Scientology — whether it was the kind way she treated the children of her tenants, or, sadly, the way she allegedly accepted drugs for rent money. Hopefully, it’s a sign that she isn’t as brainwashed as many other Scientologists.

Despite her many shortcomings and mistakes, I think Denise is a good person. She doesn’t go around trying to hurt people. She has done some very selfish and misguided things that happen to hurt others, but that is very different than seeking out ways to ruin thousands of people’s lives and doing it as an everyday course of business, which describes her brother. Denise isn’t the leader of Scientology. He is.

When I was 12 to 16 in the Sea Org at Flag and didn’t see my parents for nearly four years, when libs [free days] were allowed, Denise picked me up every other week. She brought me to her home, treated me like my being there brightened her whole life, she fed me, loved me and she bought me underwear and socks, she confided in me, and she was a wonderful aunt to me. Even later on when I was 16 and I wanted to get my navel pierced (a big “no no” as a Sea Org member), she took me, knowing that it was part of being a teenager. She knew she would get in trouble for it and she didn’t care.

If there is one person I could confide in about my doubts and fears and would keep my secrets, it was Denise. If there is one person who I miss more than anybody, it is Denise.

There were at least three different kids I met during that time who Denise had taken in at different times because they were having some sort of family difficulty or their parents were away and she treated them like her own kids.

Denise is a mother of four. Her second youngest, who is a few years younger than I am, is in the Sea Org — or at least was. If Denise left Scientology, it would likely mean never speaking to her again.

With everything she has been through, both imposed by the Church and self-imposed (and self-imposed things don’t hurt any less) this latest development doesn’t surprise me. But it makes me sad that she is going through it. She has a very complicated life. Even beyond this latest scandal. I sincerely hope that it drives her away from Scientology and not closer to it.

I understand that people are cheering about this because in a way this does expose the leader of Scientology as hypocritical at the very least. To me it is just another sad example of Scientology ruining someone’s life.

Thanks very much for that perspective, Jenna.

We also heard from Claire Headley, who worked closely with David Miscavige at Scientology’s International Base in California, where she was a member of the Sea Organization and an employee of the Religious Technology Center (RTC), Scientology’s controlling entity. She offered these words…

I first heard of Denise in the late 1990s, after I’d been in RTC a couple of years. Prior to that, I had no idea David Miscavige had a twin sister. It was definitely not common knowledge at the headquarters. The way Miscavige talked about her was always as if she were a non-human, like an irritation that he wished did not exist. I heard him talk about her several times between the late 90s and until I left in 2005. None of these mentions were favorable. He talked about how Denise and Sam [Licciardi, her second husband] had left the Sea Org years ago and were “out-ethics.” Several times he made reference to the fact he was trying to get her to leave Florida and move away from their mother. That she was a bad influence. And most often, he referred to her as a “f**king c**t.” I knew he did not want anyone to know she was his sister, especially not the high rollers at Flag.

Most of the former church members we have consulted tell us they expect Scientology’s current followers will either not hear the news about Gentile’s arrest or will dismiss it as propaganda.

 
——————–

Posted by Tony Ortega on July 1, 2013 at 07:00

E-mail your tips and story ideas to tonyo94@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter. We post behind-the-scenes updates at our Facebook author page. Here at the Bunker we try to have a post up every morning at 7 AM Eastern (Noon GMT), and on some days we post an afternoon story at around 2 PM. After every new story we send out an alert to our e-mail list and our FB page.

If you’d like to help support The Underground Bunker, please e-mail our webmaster Scott Pilutik at BunkerFund@tonyortega.org

 

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  • Observer

    Claire’s statement didn’t surprise me in the least. Miscavige pretends to be a real boy, but he has just as much knowledge of actual human relationships and emotions as he does of ecclesiastical leadership: ZIP.

    If he had been a Roman emperor he’d have just executed or assassinated his relatives and been done with it. I hope this does drive Denise out.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      I don’t think Dave is going to let her out. He has too much heat on him now and she would be a loose cannon if she gets away.
      I bet she has been locked down hardcore ever since she got out of jail.
      Ironic that.

      • Observer

        I’d like to see her blow, like Jenna and Dallas and his own dad. Davey deserves all the humiliation anyone can give him.

        • MO Mom

          Blow and get the real help she needs.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          If we are going to dream…hopefully he puts her at twin peaks and she and Shelly plot and then blow together….

          • Poison Ivy

            If Shelly has the physical or mental strength to be able to escape at this point…if she’s even still with us…

    • Truthiwant

      Some facts about a couple of the worst Roman Emperors, Nero and Caligula.

      Nero murdered his wife. He confiscated senators’ property and
      severely taxed the people to build his own golden home. Anything that ever went
      wrong he blamed on the Christians.

      Caligula, also known as “Little Boots” opened a brothel in his palace, and thought
      he should be treated as a God. The Romans were obliged to worship him. His
      extravagances soon consumed the public treasures and Caligula was forced to
      resort to every kind of extortion to obtain money.

      • Observer

        Gee, that sounds awfully familiar …

      • Poison Ivy

        Interesting. The only thing about Miscavige that doesn’t grok with that seems to be the sexual perversions. We don’t really hear those stories about him. Curious.

        • FistOfXenu

          Maybe the people who would know aren’t able to tell those stories now?

          • Poison Ivy

            Ooooh, FOX you gave me chills. Of course, you may be speaking of Shelly! “What Shelly knows….” Can’t believe there isn’t a full out Seal Team 6-type rescue effort to get her, just for what she could tell!

            We know that “Lou” and he supposedly have a thing.

            But from the stories we hear, it’s violence and not sex that seems to turn COB on. He almost sounds a little asexual. Or, perhaps, a tad closeted?

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Wouldn’t surprise me to learn that he likes latex-clad women to spank him.

            • Poison Ivy

              There’s gotta be something like that, right?

            • FistOfXenu

              Wouldn’t surprise me to learn he goes by the nick “Buffalo Bill” and videos himself dancing

              http://youtu.be/4y-RxUYzBOc

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              okay, totally grossed out now

            • FistOfXenu

              You don’t see any resemblance to Davey at all? I mean except that the guy in the film’s WAY too tall to be DM.

              PS: sorry for the gross out.

            • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

              There is nothing wrong with liking to cross-dress, being asexual, being homosexual, or liking latex-clad women to spank you.

              Come on, people. Let’s try not to be as backwards and controlling about sexuality as Scientology is.

            • Poison Ivy

              Agreed, Lliira, but of course when a person is sanctimonious about his or her perfection and decorum in all things (sexuality included), it does bring out the schaudenfreude when that person is revealed to be a hypocrite.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I never said anything was wrong with it–you inferred that. From my experience, it just wouldn’t surprise me to learn that.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          Well, there is his Golden Lounge room, where he gathers some of his minions, scotch in one hand, and private pc folders in the other, reading sexual parts out loud, knowing that some of those sexual parts were false ones that he coerced and beat out of his prisoners until they “confessed”.

          I’d call that fairly perversed.

          • Poison Ivy

            Ah, yes. Perhaps he only acts his fantasies out this way, and with himself – as well all know, the only person he really loves.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Then there’s all the reports of rape covered up…he reads about those, but turns around and punishes both physically and mentally any reports of masturbation. Allegedly, he destroyed evidence or police reports of his father being arrested for rape.

              He gets off on violence and torture. I would say terrorizing his staff for natural acts of sex is torture in itself.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Wasn’t there a cover-up of some sorts of his father raping someone?

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              “According to Stacy Brooks, DM’s dad was nailed for statutory rape on an
              underage girl in Philadelphia. Per Jesse Price, a briefcase filled with
              cash was sent with the mission to Philadelphia to ‘”make it all go
              away.” Shortly thereafter, DM ordered his father to move to Gold Base
              & join the Sea Org so he could keep tabs on him.”

              https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/question-who-is-ronald-t-miscavige-age-74.53953/

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              I wonder how Denise handled that. As a woman, I can’t even imagine dealing with the concept that my father could rape a young girl. And then the family helped him get away with it. That’s got to result in a mindfuck.

            • Poison Ivy

              It may have not been “rape” per se, he may have “seduced” a teenager. (He was a musician and all.) The kid’s parents may have found out and gone after him (as well they should have!)
              No matter the details, it gives a little idea of the flexible morality that may have existed in that branch of the family.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Could be but still reflects a “problem”. Oh, and um, if I said (He was a writer and all), you might object? :)

            • Poison Ivy

              I hear ya. Apologies. I was referring to the groupie phenomenon ( actors, musicians, I guess a few writers have ‘em too). Didn’t mean to offend or make any kind of sweeping generalization about musicians. “My best friends are musicians” – I know, but really they are!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Okay…groupies. We can agree to pounce on their sad backends. :)

            • Poison Ivy

              Actually I have a high school era friend who was sort of a locally famous groupie. Sweet girl from wealthy family…slept with all the lead singers ( and others) of a lot of the hot and the up and coming Boston bands in the ’70s, many before she was 18. A few local sports stars too. Now she is a happily married (married a local musician!) middle aged Suburban housewife w/kids. Life is…interesting.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Oh, the 70’s. Well, she gets a pass then. I’d say I might have run into her, but didn’t do the Boston area too much.

            • Missionary Kid

              A Banger sister.

            • Poison Ivy

              Kinda sorta. On a more local scale.

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Did she take pictures? Or was she the plaster cast type. Inquiring minds want to know….

            • Poison Ivy

              She probably has some memorabilia stashed away. But people were less about “look at me” exposure back then.

            • Kitz
            • TonyOrtega

              I guess it’s a lot easier just to spread that rumormongering bullshit, but since Jason Nark of the Philadelphia Daily News actually looked into the case last year, it might be more responsible to cite what he found rather than guesses about “statutory rape” or a payoff. Here’s what Nark found:

              “The known facts are that Ronald Miscavige Sr., a salesman, was charged in May 1985 with criminal attempted rape, indecent assault and other charges stemming from an alleged incident at a King of Prussia apartment complex on Oct. 9, 1984.

              An Upper Merion police report says a woman working at the Kingswood Apartments claimed she was attacked by a man posing as a potential tenant. The woman kneed the man in the groin after he tore her blouse, and a sketch of the assailant was made after he fled, the report says.

              In March 1985, women working in the office at another apartment complex, Gulph Mills Village apartments, alleged that the sketch resembled a man who had inquired about a rental there.

              The women wrote down the license-plate number of the man’s Honda Accord, the report says, and it turned out to belong to Ronald Miscavige Sr. The alleged victim was “pretty sure” he was the same man who attacked her, the report says, and he was charged.

              But at a preliminary hearing a few weeks later, a judge found the evidence against Miscavige’s father was insufficient and all charges were dropped. Neither the assistant district attorney who handled the case nor the Norristown attorney who represented Miscavige’s father could recall much about it when reached by the Daily News. The alleged victim could not be located.”

            • Truthiwant

              Sometimes threads go a little bit over the top! We should all keep to the facts like you do, Tony.

              I sort of started this by saying that Caligula had opened a brothel in his palace.

              Unfortunately, neither can I prove that story but heck, at least it happened over two thousand years ago!

            • Robert Eckert

              “To cover every angle for raising money, he even set apart a number of palace rooms as a brothel, and furnished them in style, where married women and freeborn youths were on show. Then he sent pages round the squares and public halls, advertising the place to men of all ages. Its patrons were offered loans at interest, and were registered as contributors to Caesar’s revenues.” Suetonius 4:51; just to cover “Dox or STFU” — now of course Suetonius might have been passing on confabulations, but at least there are primary sources here. The full story as he tells it sounds even more Miscavige-like.

            • Truthiwant

              Actually, on a serious note, a blog and site are valid only to the point that the articles and comments are true, based on fact.

              Sometimes there is a fine line between opinion and fact but sometimes, quite frankly, certain things are scandal talk.

              Emotions can run high in conversations dealing with Scientology, particularly because of the abuse and ruin it has created in certain people’s lives. However this should never be an excuse to start any gossipmongery.

            • Poison Ivy

              Actually 2000 years ago, a brothel in a palace was pretty much business as usual.

            • Poison Ivy

              Thank you for the reality check, Tony.
              I wonder what the Jesse Prince/suitcase full of cash story was all about?

            • monkeyknickers

              Well . . . in that spirit, Tony, here’s this burning question I’ve had:

              A while ago you posted a vid of Steve Hassan interviewing Jon Atack, in which Jon Atack mentions Hubbard raping a boy and having sex with his daughters, and that that information was in a sworn affidavit.

              I wrote you, and Jon, AND Steve asking for more info and where that affidavit was so I could see it for myself and confirm. I never heard back from anybody. I did as much searching as I could, but ended up seeing nothing – not even mentions of those acts.

              Do you know where it is?

              I’m not trying to be a dick, I just want to make sure that the story is legit before I start adding it to the list of reasons I despise that fat, doughy, pathetic old man.

            • monkeyknickers

              Sorry a correction and here’s the vid

              http://vimeo.com/57494206

              This conversation begins at roughly 20:30. Atack said that only the rape of the 12 year old boy was in a affidavit . . . . by someone named . . . Andre Taboyhan? I can’t catch it.

              The incest was an anecdote evidently.

            • Poison Ivy

              He’s into power. That’s for sure.

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Those are the types, I’ve learned, that secretly want to be disciplined and shamed themselves. For example, JE Hoover. He was one of the most powerful people in the country and was a major dickhead… but yet got off wearing dresses. I’m sure there is something a bit off with the Little One.

            • Poison Ivy

              From an “evil psych” perspective, his self-loathing must be incredible, given what he projects out upon the world and those around him.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I am sure!
              Because after all no one else can do anything right.
              And he has to do everything.

              Why would sex be any different.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              He probably has written instructions on how to do it for him. 60 pages just on how to undress. 20 on …on no, not going there. ewwwww

            • BuryTheNuts2

              ewwww.
              OK, that is two days in row you grossed me out!

        • Truthiwant

          You might be right. But then again we don’t know. We also don’t know if Caligula played musical chairs or Nero had an Ideal Temple Project.

          • Poison Ivy

            “Ideal Temple Project” – I wouldn’t be surprised; real estate scams like that are indeed as old as real estate itself!

          • Robert Eckert

            His Golden Palace, a magnificent monument to himself built on the substantial area of Rome that was burned out during the Great Fire, has a certain resemblance.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              It reminds me of the 1927 movie “Metropolis” accept instead of black and white, we have the golden tint.

              [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/2vxjgyh.gif[/IMG]

            • Bradley Greenwood

              I LOVE THIS FILM… if it is presented with the correct score. Fritz Lang was amazing!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Me too…it was So far ahead of its time on many levels. Here’s a scene which I like to call “Thursdays at 2:00″

              [IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2mg35l0.jpg[/IMG]

            • Bradley Greenwood

              It’s astonishing (I’m running out of superlatives) how relevant this movie has remained.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Human nature hasn’t changed much. We just have better tech toys.

            • FLUNK_101

              I knew a woman who loved this silent movie, and she gave me a copy. She recommended I put on Peter Gabriel’s “So” as a soundtrack.

            • coonellie

              Oh, Peter Gabriel…I used to listen to, “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway,” over and over again in college. Sigh…

        • 0tessa

          But there are … there must be …

        • richelieu jr

          DM strikes me as imporent/ latent homosexual tendencies, with a possible pinch of sexual sadism thrown in…

          Power/humiliation and secrets and violence are his peccadilloes.. whether he masturbates reading PC files or not, that’s what he gets off on..

          That and wanting TC to look up to him..

          • BuryTheNuts2

            And DM “looking up at TC” made me think of this song:

            The percentage you’re paying is too high priced
            while you’re living beyond all your means
            and the man in the suit has just bought a new car
            from the profit he’s made on your dreams
            But today you just swear that the man was shot dead
            by a gun that didn’t make any noise
            But it wasn’t the bullet that laid him to rest
            was the low spark of high-heeled boys.

          • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

            After decades of following Scientology, I’ve noticed a pattern about famous peoples’ sexuality when they join. That is, they become Scientosexual. People joke about various men in the cult being gay, but I think this is bullshit. Whatever they were before they become immersed in the cult, they aren’t that now. As the man said in The Shawshank Redemption, you’ve got to be human to be homosexual. And Scientology does its best to completely stomp every shred of humanity out of people. One of the easiest and most thorough ways to control people is through their sexuality.

            • Poison Ivy

              Interesting. From what some of the Scientologists from the early days say in their memoirs, it used to be a hotbed of sex and affairs. But now, you don’t hear a lot of tales of passion coming from the inside. I suppose everyone is too sleep-deprived and stressed out.

        • N. Graham

          He’s the Pope! He’s only into perverted violence. And his equipment is probably too tiny anyways.

      • Gerard Plourde

        Don’t forget that Caligula is reported to have planned to have his horse made a Roman Consul.

        From Wikipedia –

        “Incitatus was the favored horse of Roman emperor Caligula (reigned 37–41 AD). Its name is a Latin adjective meaning “swift” or “at full gallop”.

        According to Suetonius’s Lives of the Twelve Caesars (121 AD), Incitatus had a stable of marble, with an ivory manger, purple blankets, and a collar of precious stones. Dio Cassiushas indicated that the horse was attended to by servants, and was fed oats mixed with gold flake. Suetonius also wrote that it was said that Caligula planned to make Incitatus aconsul, and that the horse would “invite” dignitaries to dine with him in a house outfitted with servants there to entertain such events.”

        Sound like anybody?

        • Observer

          If Incitatus were a beagle …

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            He’s the equivalent. He might not have a collar of precious stones (maybe he does on second thought) but he has his own uniform, has to be saluted by his inferiors (hope that includes DM!), is consulted for his wisdom on the ethic condition of the “council members” and his bark is the equivalent of “off with his head,”, i.e. the RPF’s RPF, etc.

        • Truthiwant

          Better pass that comment over to Observer. If ever there was a shoop!!

        • ThetaBara

          Yeah, it sounds like Karl Lagerfeld. Oh, wait, he made his own money so he’s entitled to do crazy shit with it.

      • N. Graham

        Nero had his own mother killed also.

        Caligula was incestuous with his sisters and once, at some games at which he was presiding, he ordered his guards to throw an entire section of the crowd into the arena during intermission
        to be eaten by animals because there were no criminals to be prosecuted and he was bored.

        • Truthiwant

          I don’t want to over do the comparisons, but certain things that Caligula did and what Miscavige or Hubbard have done are similar. I suppose throwing the crowd in to the arena is like sending everybody to the RPF. Maybe they don’t get eaten by the lions but they certainly get eaten by bed bugs and fleas!

          • Poison Ivy

            I’ll bet ticket sales for the Coliseum plummeted after that little stunt.

            • Truthiwant

              We’ll need to get Russell Crowe to sort out Emperor Davidus Miscavigus.

            • Poison Ivy

              Or Kirk Douglas as Spartacus!

        • monkeyknickers

          And they complied. That’s the crazy thing to me.

  • Phil McKraken

    In summary: Despite whatever of Denise’s problems caused this, at least it shows that she’s not a true-blue Scientologist, and that’s a good thing. Dang.

    • FistOfXenu

      The more I learn about things going on around DM, the more inhuman he looks. Doesn’t care about anybody in his family no matter what they’re going through, just cares about what it does to his reputation.

      And I appreciate Jenna Hill’s comments. Fact is, Denise’s “failure” as a $cientologist made her a good aunt that showed kindness to Jenna when the rest of her family especially that Big Bean at the top didn’t. Not much of a surprise is it? It looks like you either succeed as a $cientologist or you succeed as a human. Can you really do both at the same time? I never saw it but maybe some body else here has.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        That would make sense. After all Thetans and Humans are not the same thing.

        I will take humanity over the whoo whoo any day!

        • FistOfXenu

          Report to Ethics, down the hall, 1st door on the right. Bring your credit card.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I just got back from Vacation!
            I am totally broke. Not a dime to reg!

            But I do have a toothbrush….

            • FistOfXenu

              WTF! You took a vacation when the whole world is being destroyed by evil psychs? You wasted all that money on your selfish meat body when you could’ve spent on clearing the planet? DO I HAVE TO DO EVERY THING MYSELF?

              What are your crimes?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              “What are your crimes?”

              Jesus, Do you realize how long that fucking post would be?

            • FistOfXenu

              So? You’re the 1 paying for the se checks. :D

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That is why I am REALLY broke!

            • monkeyknickers

              Did you enjoy yourself? Tahoe right?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Oh hell yeah.
              It was freaking awesome.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Tahoe

            • monkeyknickers

              Beauty. :)

              Why didn’t you stop in LA ? I could’ve showed you the fantasyland of tacos that is the east side.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Ha.

              Been there, done that.

              I hate everything between Newport Beach and Point dume.

            • monkeyknickers

              :)

      • Observer

        Too bad Davey can’t see that he’s damaged what reputation he had more than everyone in his family put together.

        • Poison Ivy

          Are the majority of those inside Scientology – publics, staff and Sea Org alike – still convinced the COB is wonderful? Or do they just fear him, full stop?

          • PreferToBeAnon2

            When I hung around the opening event of the new Lobbying Org in DC last year where DM spoke, I heard the folks exiting saying how fabulous they thought he was. I really got the impression they have absolutely no idea. I stood behind these two women, eaves dropping, who were waiting for the light to change to cross the street and they were definitely jazzed and bubbling over about his wonderfulness. And when I engaged with a very handsome and friendly staff person who was handling the front door and I asked some pointed questions, he said oh, those things were just made up by Marty Rathbun.

            • monkeyknickers

              Good god. :(( How frustrated you must have been. Did you pinch him? I’d’ve been tempted.

            • Poison Ivy

              Yes I well remember that memorable post, PTBA2!!! Not so much action there the time you and I went! ;-)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You mean…it is now “idle”?

              Color me shocked.

          • Observer

            In clam “logic” those concepts aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. I bet he scares the crap out of them, but there are those who, while terrified, think he’s wonderful because he’s willing to ruthlessly put ethics in on the planet (even though they have no idea what he’s actually doing).

          • FistOfXenu

            Maybe it’s because they think Big Beans are supposed to be scary to woggy types. So they like him scary because they think it means he’s a Big Bean and we must be scared of him like they are. And maybe they tell themselves it’s just the part of them that isn’t “right” yet that’s scared of him so it’s okay that he’s a thug. Maybe they even imagine being scared of him is part of them getting their ethics in. Because they’re deluded enough to think that once they get up the bridge they’ll be so good that he won’t scare them any more.

            It’s a question for a Dreaded Psych, I think.

            • Observer

              We need to recruit an Ebil Psych to the Bunker.

      • Phil McKraken

        Being a good Scientologist means agreeing with LRH, full stop, no exceptions. It’s inhuman, to be sure.

      • Are_sics

        Yeah, kind of reminds me of Elron’s reaction to his son’s apparent suicide. How could he do this to me, this is bad press.

        • monkeyknickers

          Precisely! As if we needed further proof the man was a narcissist of the first order. Turning your own child’s suicide, that you know you must have caused in some way, into something victimizing YOU . . . . just WOW. Time to stick him in the cage with Xenu.

          • Robert Eckert

            And don’t forget to charge up those eternal batteries!

            • monkeyknickers

              HAHA!

      • richelieu jr

        Well he’s in the true line of LRH who, upon being told his son had committed suicide said, ‘The little bastard’s done it to me again!”

        Remember, Davey, it all about YOU!

  • Sunny Sands

    It might be interesting to know what has happened in the last 5 months in Denise’s life between January when the arrest occurred and now. There has been speculation that a celebrity Narconon is in the works, maybe Denise’s troubles have influenced this.

    How fortunate Jenna had an aunt she could trust and rely on during her time of need. I have many nieces, but I would never take one of them who was a minor to get their navel pierced without parental consent. Just sayin’.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      She is probably in a new program called the DRPF.

    • pronoia

      Except at that point Jenna was basically on her own as her parents had signed her over to the sea org and were not even a phone call away. Just say sayin’.

    • Poison Ivy

      {Yeah, Narconon will solve all her problems. All she needs is a few dozen hours in a sauna, some vitamins and some more TR’s. Presto, all better now.}

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Yes, I too have been wondering what has happened to Denise between the January arrest and now. I know I seem fixated on the sale of the Larry Hagman estate to a $cien front group and it’s intended purpose but…

      At first I suspected it would be an out of the way, Narconon for celebrities, whales, and their families, but now, I’m wondering if things might not have been accelerated and Denise has already been there or held there until her July court case – if she makes an appearance. Although, by looking at her course completions yesterday list at EXSMB, she seems to have taken all the $cien courses, and more, offered by Narconon. ;- )

      Anyway, as to the timing of the arrest and purchase of estate, here is a description of the events leading up to the sale:

      http://ovnblog.com/?p=7742

      In March… Larry Hagman, his marble and glass, 23,000-square-foot home atop Sulphur Mountain… The property, which had been for sale for more than two years, was originally listed for $6.45 million. The sale went through shortly after a title dispute between the Hagman estate and a neighbor south of the property — the religious non-profit Meher Mount group — was resolved…

      The 173-acre property, near the Hagman estate, is owned by the Meher Mount Corporation. The group was founded in the 1950s by wealthy followers of a spiritual leader from India, and was intended “to provide for the betterment of mankind by implementing the teachings of Meher Baba.”

      The Hagman property was purchased by… the Social Betterment Properties International, which is affiliated with the Church of Scientology, and is headquartered at the same address on Hollywood Boulevard in Los Angeles. A spokesperson for the group said plans for the property had not been finalized, but would not comment further at that time…”

      In addition to your speculation, what also made me think of this sale/purchase was when I read what Claire said above: “Several times he made reference to the fact he was trying to get her to leave Florida.”

      • FLUNK_101

        I know an ex who’s into Meher Baba … the name means “Compassionate Father.”

      • Sunny Sands

        Thank you for the recap, you’ve refreshed my memory of the details.

    • monkeyknickers

      I so would. :))

  • sugarplumfairy

    Jenna’s a smart girl.. It’s amazing to me how empathetic and kind she turned out to be.. same for Claire.. Their humanity remains intact despite relentless co$ training routines and indoctrination drilling.. They’re just completely different souls from dm and his ilk.. and sounds like Denise is not very much like her brother.. thank goodness.. the world doesn’t need two of them.. I hope she works things out, but I can’t help appreciating the fact that she is throwing a wrench into dm’s world..

    • Sherbet

      I agree with you, sugarplum, about Jenna’s and Claire’s kindness. They’re kinder than I am: I’m still loving the embarrassment Denise brought down upon what’s left of The House of Miscavige (or, as Otessa dubbed it “Opus Hubbardi”).

    • pronoia

      Because they really understand what it is to suffer. Remember, they were both being tortured and abused by the church as children. As was Denise. And if anyone has the capacity to understand what has driven her to this, it would be people like Claire and Jenna.

      We do not know how many times she may have tried to blow. But as Jenna has pointed out, her behavior, using drugs, befriending wog drug dealers etc points out that she must have been desperate on some level to get out. Maybe she thought that jail was really the only way out. Maybe she couldnt face the wreckage of her life (Kyle Brennan, her own children) and just wanted to die. Sadly it appears that she is now in the clutches of DMs law firm and I would not be surprised if she were not ultimately off-loaded Shelley Miscavige style.

      • Still_On_Your_Side

        She won’t be “off loaded” as easily as Shelley. Shelley has no family to get court orders demanding “proof of life” (for want of a better term). Jenna, her father, her sane brother, etc., these are people who will stand in the way of Miscavige “disappearing” Denise.

        • FistOfXenu

          The snark in me says of course Shelly doesn’t have any body to demand proof of life. Her official next of kin Davey doesn’t want that question being asked.

          • Poison Ivy

            This makes me so angry.

      • ze moo

        A dwi and possession of marijuana is not that big a deal. Auntie Denise doesn’t need a high powered Davey approved lawyer, all she has to do is show up for court and do whatever drug treatment the court imposes. Getting rid of the drug houses would go a long way towards solving this problem. As they are in default of the loans, time will fix that problem.

        • PreferToBeAnon2

          There might be some residual issues about the drug house and her not cleaning that up.

          • ze moo

            She is going to be dealing with the legal fallout for a while. ‘Nuisance abatement’ has became a priority among police. The fines and perhaps ‘community service’ will keep her busy.

            • Poison Ivy

              Maybe the “Community Service” will get her to experience life among wogs and see that – even as an indentured servant to the state – it’s better than what Scientology offered her!

        • pronoia

          DM obviously wanted to make this flap disappear, to somehow keep it quiet and out of the public eye. Sadly for him and his expensive law firm, someone either in the cult or the police department must’ve gossiped to someone in indie circles. Who tipped off Joe Child. So they will be busy creating a plan B for Denise.

          A court ordered drug treatment program would be a good thing. Unfortunately for Denise, courts have a tendency to allow defendants to pick their own treatment center. For someone like Denise, a narconon stay could well be life threatening.

          Of course the very best thing which could possible happen to her is to be declared an sp and dumped from the cult.

    • Poison Ivy

      Yes, SPF. To me this speaks of the inherent good in human nature, no matter how hard an ideology like Scientology works to drive it out of them.

    • Xique

      It’s quite plain, Jenna loves her Aunt Denise, and Uncle Dave, she loves not. She knows each of them , they’re her family, but as far as her compassion , it’s for Denise alone. Jenna you are a lovely person.

    • monkeyknickers

      When I read yesterday’s post . . . . . . I just felt really BAD for her. A woman who should be strong and deep and showing the beauty and experience that only comes with age, and instead she’s hiding in her minivan furtively smoking weed and drinking. But I was afraid to post that comment because I was pretty sure that Kim would kick my ass and I really need her to babysit and stuff. :))

      It’s exactly like watching those desolate dogs that get adopted out (if they’re “lucky”) of chemical research facilities. They are twisted and ruined and can’t be touched. And it says tomes more about the chemical company than it does about the poor dog.

      But I agree, Sugar . . . . I also can’t help appreciating the amount of ick Miscavige must feeling right now.

      • monkeyknickers

        Not that I think there’s anything wrong with weed or booze. Jesus if I had 10% of what this country has spent failing miserably at eradicating marijuana, I could totally buy Japan or something.

        I LOVE sushi.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I am already saving my money to buy Japan!

          I would rather eat sushi than….wait for it…………….Tacos!

          Wanna go in together on the purchase?
          We could probably buy it by the time the first Sea Org Contracts are nearing end of term.

          • monkeyknickers

            YES I DO.

            And sooner than later, pretty girl. I’m STARVING.

            I’ll think of a totally legit get rich quick scam and we’ll start the process. Maybe I can offer self help seminars at outrageous prices and then buy a boat! I could sail around abusing people and demeaning them! THAT MAKES MONEY.

            Phew! :)

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I will be your “Dave”.

            • N. Graham

              I think you’re on the right track. You should start your own religion, that’s where the money is! But charge for services, and call the charges “donations” so if anybody wants their money back, you can rightfully deny them.

              If you are promising a service in your new religion, just keep saying it isn’t working because they aren’t doing it right. Every few months or so, come up with something new that you can claim is why it wasn’t working for some. And then charge more money for the solution. Make money, make money, make money!

            • MissCandle

              And don’t forget the semi-colons

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Do you think we could get a tax exemption?
              Who is the current head of the IRS?
              Does he/she have a dog?

            • monkeyknickers

              This idea has legs already. But something tells me that I need to start smoking filterless cigarettes by the barrel and avoid dentists to develop a totally jacked up grill that can be described as “burnt sienna”. Then – and I’m just postulating here – I need to buy a stupid hat and make everybody else wear one too (but not as nice as mine, clearly)

              Then . . . . um . . . . . I shall . . . . make stupid movies and pretend I’m a musician.

              This is going to be wicked. !

            • N. Graham

              Wow, that sounds good! What if you got uniforms, especially ones with epaulets? Epaulets are really cool.

              Don’t forget stream of consciousness writing too. Just write down anything that comes into your head, make it as cryptic and hard-to-understand as you can, and call them your holy writings. Don’t allow any discussion. I think we might be on to something!

  • FistOfXenu

    Just reread Claire Headley’s comment. Disgusting! It looks almost like Dwarfenfuhrer Madman always hated his twin. What the hell? Who talks about his sister like that?

    • Bella Legosi

      My little bro and I have a relationship where we maybe cool with each other one day, but on others we do hate each other. Right now happens to be one of the salad days, but when it goes bad it goes bad. We are both guilty of talking some massive shit to one another or pulling juvenile FU stunts.

      Brothers and sisters can get like this. All it takes is pressure, time, and distrust. With my bro and I a lot of the problems rise from the fact that when wedont trust each other, that is when the venom starts.

      I couldnt imagine having a twin. Those issues would be exasterbated.

      • FistOfXenu

        Bella, we all fight WITH our brothers and sisters. Maybe it’s just my family or my generation or something but even when we were fighting like cats and dogs we’d’ve never bad mouthed each other to outsiders. And even my best friend knew that if he’d said any thing nasty about my siblings to me he’d be on the floor. And he was the same about his. But reading how DM talked to other people about his sister, well, damn! How do you go that low without finding oil?

        • Observer

          How do you think he replenishes the oiliness table?

          • FistOfXenu

            Thanks. I think you’re 1 of the few people that could give me a laugh out of this.

          • ze moo

            With the collected tears of severed dreams.

          • BuryTheNuts2

            I still wanna know exactly what that oiliness table is for? Or does?

            OK, so we all know we want it to be a gigantic sex toy (or maybe that is just me)….but uh, still….

            What the hell is it for?

            I am still guessing some kind of “oil fountain” to drink from for the purif.

            I wonder if the “oil” comes in pressed walnut with rosemary?
            Doesn’t that sound great to marinate a pork chop in.

            • Observer

              Well, oiliness was one of the Hub’s 57 “perceptics”. Maybe the table is you can hone your oiliness perceptic. You never know when you’ll need a superdeveloped ability to percept oiliness.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              But do you swim in it?
              Lay on it?
              Lap up the oil like it is a dog bowl?
              Why is it shaped like that?
              How tall is it?
              What is with that center tank/circle?
              What are those spigots/faucets or whatever?

              Enquiring minds wanna know!!!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Miscavige is inviting All to join his “drill specialists” (he says he’s got 50 of ‘em right now). You can learn it All, Bury. Come to Flag today…. he’s waiting! Please do drop us a line and let us know, tank, bowl, spigot?

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Speaking of which, here is two pic’s from early June.
              The parking lot of the Coachman Building.
              It looks like they were doing “something” in the parking lot on Friday night.
              And Dave was supposedly there then according to Rinder.

            • BosonStark

              If you’re ever nude and stuck in a drainage pipe, being able to increase one’s oiliness at will, may enable you to slip through to safety in a most OT super-empowered kind of way.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              “If you’re ever nude and stuck in a drainage pipe, being able to increase one’s oiliness at will, may enable you to slip through to safety ”

              ^^^ Now see….this is of some practical use!

              That’s what I am talkin about!

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist

              Okay, how do you know this? We love stories here!

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              so a Perceptic is some perception. Like temperature, it would have a range of plus to minus. More temp = hot, less = cold.

              So hubtard is saying you have a sense of ‘oiliness’ about things, maybe with how it feels on the skin.

              So, putting this in to the hubbard universe where everything has to be quantified and given a number I get this kind of idea about it:

              You have a table or workstation, where there are various fluids and surfaces which are designed to have various degrees of ‘oiliness’ to them. In order to develop the ‘sense’ you have to touch or taste or whatever these various surfaces and fluids and learn to make fine distinctions between them as to relative ‘oiliness’. It would start out as a basic introduction; ‘touch surface #1, and feel it. That is level #1 of oiliness.’ In reality it would have a surface coated with an emulsion of water and a very light mineral oil, or something like that.

              There would be many examples of various degrees of oiliness from thin fluid sorts to thick grease like sorts.

              There might be a taste sensation of oiliness introduced too, which might be a challenge to do. Maybe different vegatable oils.

              After going through all this, you would be expected to be able to identify the oiliness, bllindfolded, and place it on a relative scale similar to the tone scale. When you have a confident, no hesitation response that is 100% correct for blind test of many such samples, and you were happy about it with an F/N {floating needle}, you would pass that step of the {rundown}.

            • Poison Ivy

              And don’t forget to write that check for $100,000 before you get the oil on your hands…

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Awesome reply MLT! Thanks for that as it makes Hubbardian sense (oxymoronic, I know).

              But what I really want to know is if the temperature can be jacked up high enough to make some nice crispy buffalo wings in that center vat?

              That is the only way that thing is gonna make my needle swing….
              Well, unless we get back to the gigantic sex toy “perceptic”.

            • FLUNK_101

              Is gaydar a perceptic?

            • Poison Ivy

              It’s a riddle wrapped up in an enigma.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              That made me want a candy bar PI!

            • BosonStark

              Perceptics will include increasing a person’s control over respiration, heart rate, the endocrine system, and the body’s all-important oiliness level.

              From what I can tell, this will probably help the thetan find more parking places and want to up their status level with the IAS.

          • Captain Howdy

            Virgins. More specifically, Sea Org virgins.

        • FLUNK_101

          Ah … can you the feel the oiliness?

          • FistOfXenu

            There’s a song in there someplace. But for now

            • Observer

              I think you may have unintentionally hit on the perfect title for Davey:

              “Presenting the ecclesiastical leader of the ‘Church’ of Scientology, His Oiliness David Miscavige!”

            • FistOfXenu

              Ooh! I like this one.

              Obs, out of curiosity is it possible to take a close up of His Oiliness like the 1 used yesterday and shoop it so he’s all shiny and oily looking? I don’t know how shooping works so I don’t know the limits of the soft ware.

            • Observer

              I can play around with it after work. I’m sure there’s a way.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              The cellophane filter!

            • FistOfXenu

              Thinking about Davey’s oiliness took me to “slick”, a nick straight out of the 50’s. And that plus the cult’s fixation on aliens took me to this:
              http://youtu.be/W_FL9XOyDPs
              with Tommy Lee Jones as K: “Cool, whatever you say, Slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely… dick”

              And with Will Smith there that wraps around to the cult again.

            • TheHoleDoesNotExist
            • Sherbet

              All this time I thought DM was vicious. Turns out he’s really viscous.

            • FistOfXenu

              Just realized the song I was looking for. “Can you feel the oil tonight?” from “The Lying King”.

        • Bella Legosi

          I understand what you are saying. And I agree with you.

          You would be surprised at how siblings treat each other when they think it will never get back to the other sib! That is kinda how my lil bro acts. He has said deplorable things about me (some of which I did deserve, but a lot of the time I don’t) and has thrown me under the bus should it serve him well. I don’t do this to him. Our relationship is the eptiomy of “love/hate”. Which is odd because the relationship I have with my other brother and sister is nothing like this. Just with that one. This bro has some issues with women and a lot of trust issues to boot. Once you have betrayed my lil bro, that’s it, there is no gaining his trust back; no matter how much you apologize or make amends. That is just the way he is. Kinda why we fight a lot and when we fight it gets almost physical. Almost, we have never got that out of hand, but I have seriously considered dropping a can of veggies on his dick while he sleeps!

          I do not condone the way we treat each other, just as I do not condone Little Boots cutting his twin apart in front of outsiders. But it happens. A lot more then you would think, I can relate to that. However, I do not talk shit or call my lil bro names to outsiders, unless they say, “Your brother is kinda a douchebag.” Then I will agree, only because sometimes it is very true.

          Right now is a rare time where we are actually getting along and communicating with one another. When we hate each other we barely speak and keep to ourselves. We have been working together for the last week and a half and surprisingly it has been pretty cool. My mom tries to be the diplomat and recently he has been really listening to her and taking some of her advise, which helps us not get into fights as much.

          (Last month my bro and I got into it. He went to the Rose Fest and tried telling my boss I just didn’t want to come in to work and then proceeded to flirt with my boss, even though he knew she was married, hence “Your brother is kinda a douche.” was said and I had to agree)

          • FistOfXenu

            I hear you Bella. I guess I’ve been lucky. Or maybe our generation was different from younger folk. Or some other reason. We’d just say blood’s blood and that’s that. For us families were like fight club.

            • Bella Legosi

              I wish it were like that :( My mom’s family was really the same way, but somewhere along the way a lot of those values were forgotten. My family really is dysfunctional. Prolly why I understand the sibling fighting and horrible treatment. I have seen worse from others in my family and have also noticed that the closer you are to a person, the more they could potentially hurt you (emotionally). Does that make sense?

              Thankfully not everyone in my family is like that. I have a pretty good relationship with the uncle I live with. My little bro and I are basically his adopted kids. Both sides of my families are pretty dysfunctional and a lot of us really don’t see each other until Christmas. It didn’t always be like that, but it really started when my grandma died. She was pretty much the glue that kept all of us together and would remind us all what family really is.

            • FistOfXenu

              I’ve already apologized but I’ll do it again. I meant no disrespect to people who’ve had 1st hand trouble in their families. I find it hard to understand somebody talking about his sister or brother to other people the way DM talks about Denise. Sorry.

            • Bella Legosi

              No no no. No need to apologize all mighty Fist! I was just making conversation! I got the wisdom tooth pulled yesterday and have been on pain meds. I tent to talk/type a lot when I take them. I doubt you have offended anyone, I know you haven’t offended me! So take them apologies back!

              :P

              Good morning by the way! The sunrise is all purple-red here in Oregon! Tis pretty!

        • GSioux

          Fox, you are a lucky dude, I say! My bro’ & I swore we didn’t know what we’d do without each other – we were ‘witnesses’ to what we had endured in our family. This continued thru his first 30 plus years in Scientology. Until – yes, until our mother’s estate became of interest. At that time he used all his Scientology skills. He revealed to my 92 year-old mother (she had executive function compromise due to TIA’s which, of course my bro’ denied existed) something I had not chosen to share with her – that our father had on occasion French-kissed me (much to my 12year-old horror). Then he added that dad would never have done that – that I was ‘delusional’. So treachery exists. Jenna and Claire have endured. There is a richness, an empathy, that develops in time. I just hope I can develop that before my bro’ is “out”. But if I cannot, my kids will be there – with empathy and a sense of understanding how to set appropriate boundaries because they are OK – my best accomplishment. That’s not saying all is perfect – just a hell of a lot better than for my bro’ and me.

          • FistOfXenu

            I’m sorry. Guess I’m just real lucky.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        It’s that twin = reflection in the mirror thing. David does not want to look in the mirror, so he just smashes it.

        [IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/2qnpbu1.jpg[/IMG]

        • Poison Ivy

          Good analysis. Perhaps Denise has all the conscience and decency of the two of them. By suppressing her, he successfully kills off all the humanity in both of them.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            ooh, good point. Good Twin, Evil Twin phenom.

      • BosonStark

        Still, in David Miscavige’s case, this shows that he isn’t able to maintain any relationships really. His most successful relationship to date seems to be a pretend one with a delusional actor, and whatever one he has with his finger-bending secretary.

        • Poison Ivy

          “Finger bending”? Was she the one who broke Debbie Cook’s finger?

        • Bella Legosi

          Very good point!

          You would think that the leader of the “most ethical religion” on planet earth would have an excellent relationship with his TWIN! You would also think that for a religion that spouts being an authority on making people good communicators, that a lot more people would have known DM even HAD a twin!

      • richelieu jr

        In DMs case, the issues are ickBastardbated

      • monkeyknickers

        Oh dear.

        Oh dear oh dear oh dear. . . . . . Hmm.

    • Sherbet

      I guess a sister — mother, child, father, spouse — who won’t get in line and wave the scientology banner has to be exiled. Denise must have been misbehaving (either in reality or per DM’s book of rules) for some time now.

  • 0tessa

    Life is not easy already, but with your brother as head of Opus Hubbardi, it is even more difficult. Sometimes you would like to simply disappear out of shame or sheer embarrassment.

    • richelieu jr

      “Opus Hubbardi” is growing on me…

      • 0tessa

        Opus Dei …

      • FistOfXenu

        There’s an anti fungal cream for that.

  • sugarplumfairy

    You know.. I can’t get my head around the fact that miscavige refers publicly to his twin sister as an out-ethics c***.. Marc said it yesterday and Claire today.. I sooo want to smack the co$ crap out of him.. What an unethical d*** he is..

    • monkeyknickers

      But what if he had called her an out-ethics ‘cent’? :)

      These words have zero meaning unless we make them have meaning. it’s the intent behind them. And if we take away this depressing little “weapon” by not giving a shit, these cowards have to put up or shut up. Miscavige evidently spends so much time cussing out his staff that it really makes me think of a four year old going thru the potty mouth stage trying to get a reaction. And if you don’t react, it’s just NOT an effective tool and it disappears. And what does he have left after that? He’s a tiny tiny little man with no life skills, no friends, no family – nothing that would save him outside the bubble of money he’s blown for himself. All he has is cussing and manufactured fear. (oh! And Hubbard to thank for handing down that legacy)

      Every time I read reports of his verbal tirades and seriously see him stomping around his office saying, “poopy poopy poopy pants! Poop! I’m gonna poop on you! Poop and vagina and pee pee!” Etc. It’s seriously pathetic.

      • FistOfXenu

        But mk, pathetic or not DM already IS an ineffective tool and he still hasn’t disappeared!

        • dagobarbz

          Wrong! He is a VERY effective tool. You’ve simply mistaken the screwdriver for the hammer…

          He’ll disappear once his mission is complete. By which I mean rendering himself broke, homeless and in prison.

          • FistOfXenu

            I know the screwdriver’s made with vodka but I don’t think I ever had a hammer. Is it made with scotch for Davey?

            And
            http://youtu.be/_UKvpONl3No

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              beautiful! I always loved that song!

            • Robert Eckert

              If I got hammered, I’d get hammered in the moooorning, I’d get hammered in the evening, all over this laaand…

  • TheHoleDoesNotExist

    Thank you, Jenna, for letting us know the good sides of Denise and reminding us that she is a mother of four. This means there is hope. Perhaps now the rest of her family will learn about her situation and dire need for intervention and help. Perhaps they can get her a non scientologist lawyer and into professional medical hands, surrounded by family.

    For many decades I had a close friend who I worked with, on the road, who became like family. He was part of a large, blended family that was scattered geographically and emotionally. Smack in the middle, one member was a criminal sociopath that had one by one turned family against each other, had used and manipulated each of them, some with fake, momentary kindness and others with brutal, oppressive tactics. Whenever he mentioned this one, he visibly trembled and it wasn’t until the socio died that other family slowly and with instilled distrust, came back together, but only some, not all. My friend had aversion for private reasons to get psychiatric treatment, but I always hoped he did later on. Some of his family self medicated, some developed bully defense, some retreated into themselves, some had problems holding a job, others, relationships. My friend told me he was Rarely even mentioned inside the family. I guessed it was because whlile he packed some baggage, he escaped the madness and did so with no help.

    Now amplify that scenario with the Ringleader taking over a mafia like scam organization sitting on Billions in cash to act out every cruel whim and criminal fantasy. I hope Denise’s family has recovered enough themselves to be a support system for her this time. Having to recover from scientology is tough. Having to recover as a family member of a David Miscavige is going to take a long journey with professional guidance.
    The best blow to Miscavige would be for his family to united and live a happy, loving normal life. I wish them all this future.

    • sugarplumfairy

      Wow.. Really puts a different perspective in there..

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        Families of sociopaths….there are many books out there, so perhaps they can at least start reading about what happened to them, is happening now, and how to emerge. They all will need to learn New behaviors, methods of coping, ways of interacting. The scientology baggage is going to make that so much more difficult if they haven’t already peeled off That personality and all the unhealthy habits and attitudes that go with it. Stuff of nightmares.

      • richelieu jr

        If DM isn’t a sociopath,then no one is..

        That said, $cientology seems to be a machine for creating sociopaths…

        • Poison Ivy

          I don’t know if you can “create” a sociopath, but you can definitely create a narcissist. Evil psychs talk about “acquired narcissism” which happens to people in my business sometimes when they go from nothing to crazy fame very quickly. A person who isn’t solid in his or her own identity at the time fame hits can easily be “ruined” by suddenly having a crowd of fawning sycophants telling him/her he/she can do no wrong. Case in point – just about every child star you can think of.

          I think of CO$ as the religion for narcissists – it minimizes (or ridicules) compassion and charity; it posits that YOU yourself “mocked up” everything in your world; YOU are a God who has power over everyone and everything around you; it teaches you to manipulate, lie, deceive, betray others in order to get what you want (getting what you want being the holy grail of the religion)…I think every narcissist, either born or acquired, would LOVE an excuse to be able to do all those things and believe those acts are “ethical.”

          • Michael Leonard Tilse

            I’ve used the self-invented term “induced sociopathy” to attempt to come to terms with what scientology does to some people. Not all, but it is a trained in behavior that rears its head in many areas of life.

            I feel the TRs are a big part of this. As I understand this idea of sociopathy, it involves not having conscience or maybe more specifically, the ability to feel and comprehend what others are feeling. In doing TRs, my solution to “being there” without “reacting” was to internally disconnect myself from emotion or physical reactions from emotion.

            So, I see the result of TRs as being disconnected from emotion and that includes any emotional influence due to empathizing or feeling what others are going through.

            TRs are part of auditor training as well, and were originally designed, (I think) for that purpose. If you are putting someone through an emotional experience as an ‘auditor’ you are not supposed to experience that emotion or be affected by it. It is like you are supposed to be working on an engine, turning the right bolts and manipulating the controls to get a correct result. You might observe emotion and travail but you are trained out of feeling it.

            This translates over into how scientologists sometimes, (most of the time) treat others when it comes to scientology: Cold, manipulative, with no feeling, no empathy as they do the most hurtful things like disconnection from loved ones or enforcing ethics conditions. It is also the way they have taught themselves to deal with their own failings: They become ruthless and unbending about their own failures. And will submit to that treatment from others.

            • Poison Ivy

              Incredible description, Michael. Yes, I suppose “induced sociopathy” is possible. I think of the Milgram experiments. I think of the ruthless way I was “supposed” to behave in business (it never sat right with me so I was never good at it.) I think of the Germans during WWII who either tangentially participated in the Jewish genocide or turned a blind eye to it. Some longtime victims of abuse can turn heartless. So you’re right, it’s possible to condition people to not feel empathy, morality or guilt.
              Scientology is just an institutionalized method for doing it, a more direct means to an end.

            • ThetaBara

              Well said, and I think that is exactly the point of the TRs, and contributesto why it is so hard to get people out sometimes.

          • ThetaBara

            I believe it is all a continuum: narcissist – sociopath – psychopath. It’s all the self-centered spectrum. In any case they DGAF about you because they do not have a F to give.

    • Observer

      Elron certainly succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in screwing people up to his level of dysfunction.

      • TheHoleDoesNotExist

        After you read Lawrence Wright’s “Going Clear” book, it’s pretty clear his wildest dreams Did come true. Remember, code phrases for his secret hiding place were revealing things like “Over The Rainbow.”

        • Conditioner

          THDNE – As you used the word ‘conscience’ I thought this would be a good place to plug Martha Stout’s book “The Sociopath Next Door”. As the lack of conscience is truly the defining element of a sociopath, Stout, with many examples, clearly gives a thorough presentation of society’s worse illness. In my own 4 year long de-pressurizing process this book has been invaluable.

          Many comments on this blog bear witness to the utter disbelief we all feel as we learn of yet another human atrocity. Stout’s book should go a long way providing some understanding of what a sociopath is and how to deal with one.

          Aside from {the COS leader} recently I’ve had to confront and deal with a real sociopath in my family. It has been very very hard and bitter sweet.

          Please you wonderful, caring people, go on line and download it today and never have to say WTF again.

          • TheHoleDoesNotExist

            That’s always a good place to start. Sociopaths often can hide in broad daylight because they are just so Unbelievable in so many ways. They absolutely count on their victims not being believed or they hold some kind of blackmail, emotional or otherwise, over their heads to keep them silent.

            • coonellie

              I’d recommend two of Hare’s books, “Without Conscience” and “Snakes in Suits”. Being the child of a real, live, diagnosed sociopath, the word isn’t just a word. I, too, get extremely annoyed at the lackadaisical use of both sociopath and psychopath. Unless one has intimate knowledge of one, it’s really hard to comprehend just how evil, twisted and downright horror-filled they are. Probably why I’ve never been interested in horror flicks and the like. I lived it. I’ve seen the mask pulled away and the yawning emptiness was terrifying to behold…a void so complete that even as I write this my heart begins to pound.

              I read your story and the many others on this blog and I can relate on an emotional, and sometimes visceral, level. It took Baby C to finally get me to escape (and an incredible Mr. C). I was disowned, disavowed, lied about…all from a very large and tight-knit family that had used me as their preferred doormat for more years than I care to think about. I couldn’t even escape for myself, even after years of therapy. I could only escape when Baby C became the next target. Hell no, not my baby! Never, ever, ever.

              BTW, most people don’t believe it when I tell them. Even close friends have a hard time with it. Sort of like trying to explain COS to the uninitiated. And, just like COS, the criminal behavior has never been punished.

            • Poison Ivy

              Wow. Glad you got out. I am very interested in your story.

            • coonellie

              Thanks! I’m glad, too. I just wish it didn’t define me as much as it does. The positive was that life was never boring, I travelled the world, I met an incredible assortment of people from all walks of life and I learned to suffer hardship without falling apart.

              What would you like to know?

            • MissCandle

              Everything you are willing to share!

            • aquaclara

              Just as MissCandle said. But if that’s too much, then maybe this for starters. How or when did you start to see that what was happening was wrong?
              And do you feel that based on where you are now, there was something from the earlier horror that you wished you had paid more attention to, or perhaps done differently?
              Glad you’re here and posting. Mostly glad to hear that you are happy now, with Baby and Mr C!
              Thanks.

            • MissCandle

              Coonellie, I was not trying to be tacky when I responded to you with “everything!”. I volunteer for an organization that provides services for victims of domestic violence, and your reason for escaping — Baby C — is a similar reason that I have seen many times with abused women. I am always trying to add to my knowledge; I was not trying to be a tacky voyeur. But you saved your child and I’m happy you have an “incredible Mr. C.” I will be patient (not my strong point) and wait for revelations in your own time.

            • coonellie

              Hi MissCandle, sorry for the looooong delay in replying. It’s been a bit “different” the last few weeks, and I’ve had to divert my energies elsewhere.

              To sort of answer a part of your question, I realized that even with a number of years of counseling, I wasn’t going to take the time/effort needed to fully heal because I could function as I was. I was used to the abuse, used the “system” created within my family, and frankly, I didn’t feel I was worth the effort. After decades of thought modification (every memory questioned, every independent idea challenged and altered, every preference skewed), I didn’t even know who I was.

              I I knew who I was, but that was the conditioning. I was a clone. I lived a life of continual cognitive dissonance. After 10 years away, I can tell you that I HATE skirts (was never allowed to wear pants), I HATE camel and brown colors (and love hot pink and olive green), I DESPISE linen and silk (organic cotton anyone? :), and a host of other things that I’m still figuring out.

              The reason Baby C was the tipping point, is because I didn’t want to be the same as my sociopathic parent who refused to take responsibility for the abuse, refused to get help in the smallest measure, and refused to acknowledge the pivotal role of a dysfunctional dynamic ruling the immediate and extended family. How could I point the finger if I was going to end up allowing the same thing to happen to my Baby? It was that simple. I didn’t have the strength to do it for myself, but I did have the strength when it came to Baby C.

              I hope that helps explain it a little. There’s always more to write, but I have to still be careful what I put into words as the family is still alive and well and very dangerous. There are so many little things that could identify me. Just call me paranoid (and for good reason ;).

              p.s. My upbringing really does help me understand the mind-bending that happens to long-term Scientologists. The difference is that I didn’t have a choice – no sign-up sheet for me, but I had a choice for Baby C. I just wish CO$ parents felt the same about their beloved children!

            • MissCandle

              Thanks for writing. I really do understand what you write about, and I really do understand why you need to be very careful. It takes thorough planning, baby steps in executing the plan, money, and hopefully a good support system. Every day you realize that you know more about yourself. One day you realize that you’re “free.” Stay safe. I hope you keep in touch.

            • ThetaBara

              Respect to you, Ms C. I believe you. It is hard to believe – even when you have seen it!

            • Poison Ivy

              Dealing with one right now. They also have a kind of super-optimism, which keeps them moving forward with outrageous acts as if it’s all going to work out for them. Sometimes this gets them caught, but oftentimes it just gives them the air of ultra confidence that turns people into their dupes. No accident they them “confidence” men.

          • Kim O’Brien

            yeah ….Marty recommended that book too ( he is kind of like oprah now ) ….kind of ironic actually

            • BuryTheNuts2

              And Steve Hall was absolutely effusive about that book too.

              I still want to read it….despite that though.

              Hey, if they were still buddies they could start a book club!

            • monkeyknickers

              Are Steve Hall and Rathbun not buddies anymore??

            • BuryTheNuts2

              It doesn’t appear so to me…..

              But I am wrong more than I am right…so take what I say with a “huge grain of salt”!

              KPOUW!!!!

            • monkeyknickers

              How come? They are fighting publicly?

            • ThetaBara

              It’s actually a good book. If you understandthat the kids who take pleasure in pulling the wings off of flies grow up to screw over everyone they can. that’s half of it.
              There is a section on how to deal with these sorts (AVOID! GET AWAY!) and some on what it’s like to be one.
              Basicallyif you remember that some people have all the empathyof a reptile but can be very good at faking it (but you will always see signs if you don’t fall for the calculated lovebombing) they you’ve essentially got it.
              I am sure that the term gets applied to folks who don’t deserve it, but I am just as sure that it goes the other way too.

          • Captain Howdy

            People are way overusing the word “sociopath”. It’s become a pop psychology trend and is being used as a catch all to describe anyone somebody doesn’t like or agree with. If you break up badly with someone it’s because they were a “sociopath”.

            New York Times book review for “The Sociopath Next Door”

            http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/06/books/review/006PAUL.html?_r=0

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I approve of this message!!!!

              Once you know a real live one though….you might be much more careful with you might label.

            • Captain Howdy

              Ted Bundy was a sociopath. John Edwards is just an asshole. Couldn’t think of any charming republican assholes.

            • FistOfXenu

              You mean because none of them are charming or because all of them are sociopaths? :P

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I can think of several….
              But not going there.
              Hehe

            • Poison Ivy

              An asshole and a narcissist.

            • FLUNK_101

              Didn’t he at least go to Narcissists Anonymous?

            • ThetaBara

              Ted Bundy was a fucking PSYCHOPATH.
              The date rapist you know is a sociopath. People who coldly take advantage of you are sociopaths. If they KILL you, they are psychopaths!

            • FLUNK_101

              Hyman nature is complex. Not every evil person is a sociopath. I’ve read a bit, and I believe I know a sociopath. He told me I shouldn’t feel bad about what he did to me. I told him it wasn’t what he did to me that pissed me off … it was the fact that he didn’t seem to feel bad about it. He thought for a second, and said, “I’m sorry.”
              That was rhe first time I’d ever heard him apologize.
              I was sorry too, because he was a good drummer, very intelligent and he was very funny.
              I believe he came to love me. Because he was a freak. He was born without a conscience. That made him different, and he’d already made a lot if enemies. He liked me because, even though I saw him for who he really was, I still liked him.
              We had a lot of laughs working together, and I was careful to limits on his fucking with me because I was loved by our boss …

            • Captain Howdy

              Human nature isn’t that complex. If you strip away the unnatural veneer of civilization, what are you left with? Spend some time on the street and tell me human nature is complex. Human egotism is infinite is more like it.

              http://youtu.be/5aZCYnsG–c

            • BuryTheNuts2

              ” If you strip away the unnatural veneer of civilization, what are you left with?”

              Fuzzy bunny rabbits and puppies….

              Ya big ol cynic!!!!

              And these…

            • Captain Howdy

              You don’t dig my schtick? ; )

            • BuryTheNuts2

              I thought you used your schtick to dig? ;)

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              Spare the schtick, spoil the child.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Cool AV, bro!

            • Captain Howdy

              Thanks. Just call me Oddball.

            • Spackle Motion

              sounds like an interesting story.

              There are varying degrees of anti-social behavior and whether someone actually has a conscience or not. It’s not a black or white issue.

            • Poison Ivy

              Good point. We humans are all shades of gray, despite what LRH policy tells you.

            • FLUNK_101

              Exactly. In nature there is every variation and variety.

            • ThetaBara

              Why even bother trying to get along with someone you know to be a thief and a liar? All you’re doing is enabling them to prey on others.

    • dagobarbz

      Manipulators are masters at collecting and wielding information. Sociopaths collect useful nuggets of info too. It’s a bad thing to give a psychopath information about yourself.

      And then comes Scientology…what are YOUR crimes?

      • FLUNK_101

        People without conscience sometimes have a heightened perception of other people’s vulnerabilities.

    • N. Graham

      Well, with her father, brother, and niece out, maybe there is a chance someone can reach out to her.

  • Poison Ivy

    “I understand that people are cheering about this because in a way this does expose the leader of Scientology as hypocritical at the very least. To me it is just another sad example of Scientology ruining someone’s life.”

    So beautifully said by Jenna, and a reality check for us all.
    The woman Jenna describes is someone who is a good person underneath; who acts with compassion and kindness toward others (even though that kind of behavior is frowned upon as “weakness” in Scientology scripture). And if Jenna is correct, then Scientology has taken such a person and turned her into a shell of herself. Perhaps her drinking and drugging is a way to avoid looking at the terrible, terrible things she has done in the name of the evil doctrine that is Scientology. Perhaps the answer for her is getting sober and working to face those things, admit them, make amends to those she has harmed in the best way she can. (I’m thinking specifically of Kyle Brennan and his family.)

    We know from this blog and ESMB that there are countless such people – good people who did things while under that they will spend the rest of their lives regretting and trying to earn forgiveness for.

    Maybe COB’s “black sheep” twin will turn out to be one of those people. We can only hope.

    • EnthralledObserver

      I think we know which one of the Miscaviges is really the ‘black sheep’.

      • Robert Eckert

        Yeah, I can see Davey explaining, “That has nothing to do with me, that was my non-evil twin.”

  • Sidney18511

    How the hell was this kept out of the media for 6 months?

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Enquiring minds would sure like to know the answers to this one.

    • Robert Eckert

      I have to admire Tony’s forbearance here. In hindsight, it appears that he has known something about this for a week or so (little hints “wait until you see what’s coming”), but would not spoil Childs’ scoop in the slightest.

      • And I don’t rent cars!

        Why do you suppose we here in the Bunker are such rabid TOC (Tony Ortega Cult) members? It is for his old fashioned journalistic ethics, his fearlessness in now devoting his professional life exclusively to this subject matter (and most likely his personal life as well as he never seems to sleep!), his formidable knowledge base, his sense of justice, his sense of humor, and, his compassion for the “collateral damage” cruelly created by LRH and the organization and policies he created, DM, the SO members who have yet to “wake up,” etc.

        I am thoroughly not surprised that today he would post “the other side of the story” (wasn’t that Walter Cronkite’s favorite lead in?). Not surprising, it is a blog post that stops some of the manic, frenzied, excited glee and ridicule, and general Denise bashing that we (myself included) and the Interwebs engaged in yesterday as result of Childs’ article and Tony’s reporting of it.

        Today, Denise Miscavige Gentile has become instead a tragic human figure. Some one we can relate to on some level as we all have (if we dig deep enough) someone amongst our family and friends who, despite the privilege that comes from access to wealth, or having a famous or infamous person in their life, lead a life of quiet desperation full of untellable secrets.

        I have no need to elaborate further, as earlier today TheHoleDoesNotExist has written very thoughtful, and very illustrative posts that explain the phenomena of what happens when a sociopath is a pivotal figure in the configuration of family and friends, never mind the pivotal head of an organization known as a {church} .

        As for Tony’s tantalizing tease of, “Wait until you see what’s COMING…” (and also Geir Isene’s short post in the comments section a few days ago), I have a sneaking suspicion that this arrest is a mere tip of the iceberg!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          BAAAHAAAA!

          He did it to you AGAIN!!!!!!!

        • Sherbet

          “And now you know the rest of the story.” — Paul Harvey. Is that what you were thinking of, ‘cars?

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            Ah ha! I think you might be right about that! Thanks.

      • TonyOrtega

        No, other big things are coming. Joe Childs surprised the world with this one.

        • Missionary Kid

          Is there a recovery group for the Bunker?
          I’m addicted. I wake up at 4 PST, just to see what the latest is, and I put up with disqus, it’s that bad.

          • Sherbet

            Just think, Kid — some day the Bunker will close up shop for good, when the cult has imploded, the orgs sold off, and the gavel comes down on the last trial. THEN we’ll all have a withdrawal problem that ain’t gonna be cured with niacin.

            • FistOfXenu

              On the other hand we should be able to get hold of that oiliness table ;)

            • Sherbet

              When cob has left the building, one way or another, maybe OT8/Gr8 can get the mouse table back, and we can repurpose it into an awesome Slip ‘n Slide. I’ll bring the canola oil!

            • Missionary Kid

              AMEN!

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            Doesn’t seem to be MK. And I am seriously looking for one.

            I need to get out of town and go take care of an 88 yr old mother who desperately needs help from her only child (moi) and I am in complete denial about leaving and packing. I am going to disappear in a black hole of no internet, i.e. no Bunker either!, and nursing the sick and infirm for god knows how long.
            For 10 days now, I told myself I would not open this laptop and read the Bunker so I could get ready. Ha! I’m still spending days in here. I seriously need help! I wish the Internet Police would come arrest me and make me face reality, a la Denise Miscavige Gentile.

            • Sherbet

              Sorry to hear that, ‘cars. But it’s a very timely lesson: If you don’t take care of your family relationships, then you end up with nothing. Look at the Miscaviges.

              We’ll be here when you get back. When are you leaving?

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Saturday a.m. Thanks for asking and reassuring me. You are such a sweet Sherbet!

            • Sherbet

              And calorie-free! Hughughug.

            • FistOfXenu

              Just talk your mom into agreeing to have internet and sharing your addiction. I’m not saying reg her – our cult isn’t ebil like Davey’s. You pay for it. Just make it a thing you share together. Problem solved! :)

              Just saw Sherb’s answer. I’ll leave this for laughs but hers is better.

            • Sherbet

              Like Jell-O, there’s ALWAYS room for laughs.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Oh FOX, if it only it were so simple. My mother, speaking of cults, thinks the computer is the Devil’s invention. Seriously. If she said it once, she said it….

            • Sherbet

              Public libraries usually have the internet for free.

            • stillgrace

              You owe me a coke!

            • Sherbet

              OK. The Bunker now has a Cokiness table.

            • FistOfXenu

              So now look for $cientologists with white powder around their noses. Oh wait…

            • Sherbet

              It’s probably asbestos.

            • stillgrace

              Does your Mom have a library card you could borrow? You could use a library computer to check in with the Bunker while running errands.

            • FistOfXenu

              That’s some long errands. He may as well stay home. :P

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Yeah, at the rate I’ve been going this past month, I’d be gone for 10 – 12 hours per errand!! And since I fall asleep with the laptop in bed in with me as I fall asleep reading all the posts and following all the links posted here, I’d have to sleep at the library!

              Also, because I’m leaving and hope to return under a less silly avatar and username, I will confess all FOX. “He” is a “she.”

              Considering my budget, or lack thereof, for this trip (500+ miles away), have I avoided the associated Sec Check? I voluntarily confessed all my crimes before a KR was written up or OSA caught me. Does that count? Please, please… say yes, Oh Lord Xenu!
              P.S. Don’t forget I gave you a tip for premature, spontaneous volcano eruptions yesterday!

            • FistOfXenu

              It’s all good. Go in peace. I’m not LRH you know. ;)

              And I’ll try and remember to call you she. Hope it all goes okay with your mom.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Thanks, LOVE. Now that my gender is revealed, I can FINALLY say that to you without being afraid of get a disconnection notice from you because you thought I was coming on to you. You really are a lovebug.! (A cranky, grumpy lovebug sometimes, but a lovebug nonetheless.)

              And don’t worry, you are the polar opposite of LRH! You are a sweet heart and spirit. I hope you know that. And I hope you also realize how beloved you are here in the Bunker – I can tell. A day without FOX is a pretty f___g boring day indeed!

              And my last personal note for now, I can’t tell you how happy it’s made me to read between the lines of your posts as to how you and Mrs. FOX have such a long and happy marriage. Not once, to my knowledge, have you have ever referred to her with anything but unspoken pride and respect. Now that’s a marriage!! She’s a lucky gal.

              And you can tell her a car said so!!

            • FistOfXenu

              I’m a luckier guy. I’m as cranky as you say but she still puts up with me day after day all these yrs. You have no idea how sweet she is through it.

              She’s a big car lover though. She’ll be glad to know a car approved of her. :)

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Thanks stillgrace that’s a great idea! She doesn’t have a library card but I’ll get her one!

            • FistOfXenu

              Seriously, we’ll hold your place at the table.

              Yup. I left that ambiguous.

            • aquaclara

              Sounds like my mother. There is some sign of hope, though. I took her through pictures and detailed descriptions of ancient Greek architecture and art, and she went out and bought a tablet. Doesn’t know how to use it, though, but we’re tackling that next. Right now it is still in a box on her kitchen table.
              Seriously, good luck with your mom. She is lucky to have you. Now, go pack! Channeling mom… “I always liked you in that color”….

            • MissCandle

              Dear AIDRC!, Every day I take care of my 88 year old mother, but fortunately she lives in the same town as I do. Also fortunately, her assisted living facility has wireless internet access. As much as we love our mothers and we would not have it any other way (than taking care of them), it is exhausting work — physically and emotionally. I’m here for you now, or when you get back.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              You have touched me deeply. My eyes well up – thinking of you and your mom and all that entails and what must be your profound exhaustion, as I know it well.

              My tears are also a result of your compassionate statement, “I’m here for you now, or when you get back.” Imagining the fullness of your days and your 24/7 worries in taking care of your aging parent, that is very gracious, generous, and touching. I think that thought is what I will pack first. It motivates me to actually start the process and stop being in denial. Thank you.

            • MissCandle

              Well actually it is only 22/7 — I spend 2 hours/day with Tony O and the rest of you great S-Lying-Tology watchers. But thank you for your kind words as well. Travel safe!

            • PreferToBeAnon2

              Awwww cars, go! We’ll hold down the Bunker for ya. You are doing a good thing by taking care of your family. I only wish my mother was here to run errands for….

              Give her a big Bunker hug!

            • Missionary Kid

              If there is a McDonald’s somewhere in the area, or a Starbucks, they might have a mobile hot spot. That would require leaving mom along or taking her with.

              I don’t know if the McDonald’s in Canada have the same service that they have in the U.S.

              Good luck. I ended up being the person responsible for my dad, and he was a pistol.

        • Robert Eckert

          Oooh, as I commented on your “just wait” post: Tony you are such a tease! That’s why we love you so.

        • Sherbet

          You see how important that comma is? Without it, Tony would have said, “No other big things are coming.” And we’d all have to walk away, depressed.

          • And I don’t rent cars!

            You bet. That’s why I am such a rabid cult member of his… er, I meant fan. He is respectful the English language and is (rightly so) fanatical about the spelling of names, punctuation, attributing sources properly, etc.

            And I understand why. At first, I skimmed his comment and read it as, “No other big things are coming.” and my heart sank.

            In disbelief, I reread it and then I could have kissed that comma!

            • Sherbet

              New slogan for the Bunker: We have commas, and we’re not afraid to use ‘em.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^LOVES!

            • Sherbet

              I was thinking of all those errant semicolons DM had to have eradicated from lrh’s publications…just so he could resell the text as new and improved.

            • FistOfXenu

              Sherbet, you think maybe semicolons could become our ultimate weapon or something? People under cult surveillance could encrypt their comms by writing complex sentences full of semicolons. Entheta could be written full of them too. We could even design protest signs full of them. Would they know what to do?

            • Sherbet

              I don’t know; sounds like a good idea…

              If we put semicolons on signs, the scns would think we’re just winking at them.

            • FistOfXenu

              That’d still enturbulate them though, right?

            • Sherbet

              Sure. ;-) is kind of cute, and they don’t do cute. They’re used to that blank stare, 8-/

            • Michael Leonard Tilse

              You actually think; they are emoticon literate?

            • Sherbet

              Nope. Just playing along with FistOfXenu. I’ve seen protesters hold up death photos of Lisa McPherson, and the scns won’t even look. It seems they don’t live in the real world, and anything on a sign might be intrusive into their carefully constructed cocoons.

            • And I don’t rent cars!

              Yeah…

              Make Love not War.
              Use Commas not Bullets.

            • aquaclara

              and we now have curly brackets, too{{{{}}}}!

            • Sherbet

              Yup, we do, aquaclara!

    • ze moo

      Her last name is Gentile, not Miscavige. It is unclear if the county sheriffs dept knew she was Daveys sister. Even if they did know, they should not have handled the case any differently. As the case move to criminal court, the fun begins. I have put on my tin foil wizards hat and I predict that she will be found guilty, and sentenced to outpatient drug rehab. I hope that NarCONon treatment can be avoided. Florida needs to grow some standards and away from the vitamin sauna kooks.

      • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

        Puleeease! A misdemenour wil be found and she will plead guilty to it. End of story. It’s what happens up to that point that’s fun. Oh, and watching the Co$ try to keep the mugshot off the Internet.

    • FistOfXenu

      The money was shouting so loud the media couldn’t hear the facts talking.

  • Imelda Marcos

    Oh, that statement doesn’t surprise me at all. Jenna has seemed all along like a caring, compassionate person. It’s a miracle, after the way she herself was treated.

  • Gerard Plourde

    Jenna’s message makes me feel sad for Denise. I hope she can get free somehow.

    • Sherbet

      Jenna’s message also makes me feel sad for Jenna.

      • Gerard Plourde

        Yes. It’s sad that she’s got to deal with this as well. Also sad that Denise appears to have been the most supportive family member she had.

  • ReneeG

    I have no sympathy for her until she comes clean about her and her husband Jerry’s role in Kyle Brennen’s death. I am just starting to research and read about this case and it stinks to high heaven. She is guilty of a lot more than just poor judgement.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      I don’t think anyone is feeling sympathy for any harm done or crimes committed and I don’t think anyone here is cheering about her hitting bottom and the turmoil she must now be feeling.

      No one gets out of responsibility for their actions. Do I think Denise had people around her that allowed her to get by with it for too long, or that Denise should have sought help long ago? Absolutely. She has a very long road ahead of her. I think it is just unrealistic to expect someone in her condition to help others when she clearly has not helped herself.

  • BosonStark

    I can see how Denise is stuck, but she still has more resources than Quentin for example, who had no one on the outside to help him, and Denise also has the resource of the Internet, the books that have been written including that of her niece.

    The polygenetic factors for alcoholism are strong among twins. Denise’s DUI just chips away at David Miscavige’s “ecclesiastical” facade. It goes against the old, “all the answers, Scientology can help you with that.”

    As the twin sister of The Great Tiny One, Denise should at least maintain the public appearance of being a successful and sober clam, yet she isn’t able to do that. It shows cracks in the whole scam.

    • Sherbet

      Nicely said, Boson.

    • TheHoleDoesNotExist

      Quentin had people who would help him.

      • BosonStark

        I can’t imagine whom you’re referring to when anyone who got close enough for him to confide anything in, such as Monica, was punished for it.

        When he went through official ethics handling, anything he said was looked over by Hubbard himself. It wasn’t as if “gay is okay” in society or especially the Sea Org at that time, so he had to keep that bottled up inside. Worse, he was skeptical about his father’s whole crock of shit, but he was stuck on a ship of people who were devoted to upholding it and serving the Commodore.

        • TheHoleDoesNotExist

          “who had no one on the outside”. Many people were on the outside who had been in previously, who knew him, ready to help if he asked for it.

  • California

    Sad, sad, sad. Please, if anyone is in touch with her, get Denise to real help. I hope that the judge is wise and compassionate and gets her into a 3-year-long program, with mandatory detox, rehab, therapy, half-way house supervision and whatever else she needs to survive.

    I too am worried that she is involved with more than high alcohol consumption and marijuana. The former will maim and kill her pretty fast, if her consumption is high, but combining it with harder drugs (even on marijuana cigarettes) will cause an even greater decline and harm.

    Jenna’s comments are from the heart of a caring and deeply worried niece. Claire’s is from someone who knows some of the incredible abuse that Denise suffered at the hands of her brother and others in SCN and is willing to tell us about it. This circle of love and care can help Denise.

  • ze moo

    Does Davey have any family left in the clamdom? His mother is dead, his father and a brother escaped, his twin sister has been on the outskirts for almost 10 years. HIs ‘wife’ is with Elvis and Bigfoot on the mothership. The ‘family dynamic’ does not seem that important to Miscavige.

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Why should it be? From DM’s indoctrination by LRH, they are merely “meat bodies” anyway.

      • ze moo

        Your characterization of Lroon is spot on. Everything is disposable in KSW, except the wit and wisdom of Lroon….

    • GSioux

      Remind me. Where is his mother-in-law?

  • dagobarbz

    Miscavige’s sister’s character must come into question. Sure, her life is “complicated.” But many people have worse lives, and don’t commit fraud, or run scum houses to get by. The whole Digital Lightwave debacle, where she directed that bricks be put into boxes on shelves to make people think that was product going out; she got off light.

    Well, twins. The zygote doesn’t fall far from the

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      And speaking of zygotes, imagine sharing the womb with a sociopathic twin like she has had to do? (This idea is not original as I read something similar elsewhere but can no longer find the original to give proper credit. Apologizes to the OP.)
      At least Denise Miscavige Gentile seems to have some humanity, as evidenced by Jenna’s comments and Childs’ mention that she demonstrated a similar somewhat motherly interest in her tenants’ children. That streak can be a powerful motivator in finally doing the “right thing.” For her however, it is complicated by her second youngest daughter being in the SO, as Jenna also mentioned above. If so, then any decision to doing what is ethical from this point on would mean disconnection from her child. That’s make it a tough decision.

      • BuryTheNuts2

        I wonder what kind of “Dianetic Engrams” were happening in THAT womb?

        Too bad we don’t have LRH to write a made up narrative on that pregnancy! SNORT.

        • Robert Eckert

          A story with one fetus shouting at the other YSCOHB…

        • FistOfXenu

          LRH: I had this case once, it shows how some times the problem can be obvious but the people still refuse help.

          A certain husband said to his wife: I want you to act like you’re my sister and when we have sex we can pretend I’m beating you.
          Wife: But that’s disgusting! I won’t do it!
          Husband: Yes you will! You’ll take it! Sisters must be the slaves of their brothers! Take it! Take it now!
          Wife: I can’t do such a dreadful thing! Not even to pretend!
          Husband: I’m not going to hurt you even though every brother wants his sister dead! I just want to pretend to beat you!
          Wife: But I don’t…
          Husband: You’ll obey me, I say to you! I am your master! If you don’t obey me I’ll cast you out in the streets alone and penniless! You’ll be homeless!
          Wife: NO! NO! I’d rather be on drugs than act out such a repulsive fantasy!
          Husband: Then you’ll be alone and penniless in the streets AND you’ll be on drugs!

          Well, somehow that couple had sex during that conversation, and ahhh, they conceived twins, heh heh, and it just so happened 1 was a boy and the other was a girl. That’s right, a brother and a sister.

          The brother’s engram: destroy my sister if she doesn’t obey me.
          The sister’s engram: destroy myself if I don’t obey my brother.

          EDIT: the brother grew up telling his sister YSCOHB, and the sister grew up saying to herself I won’t SCOHB on matter what! But I know a great place to score some weed

          • FistOfXenu

            Oh shit. I just channeled LRH again. I feel so DIRTY.

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Well its too late….You’ve got to take it.

          • stateofcircle

            That was fucking fantastic.

        • And I don’t rent cars!

          Oh yeah, thanks. I wanted to end my comment with how that blows Dianetic engrams out of the womb. LRH sure avoided the subject of twins, who are in this case so different.
          I wonder if his response would go along the lines of, “It depended on the twin’s fetal position during coitus and when Joe, their father, who lay on top of her – sweaty and exhausted – suddenly jumped up, kicked and punched the mother in the stomach, saying, ‘You f**king c**t, you just called me David, that dope smoking slum landlord lover of yours!’

        • Sherbet

          I was trying to come up with an angry father scenario where he used the word “blunt,” but then I thought, This family is screwed up enough without inventing reasons why.

  • BosonStark

    A person on ESMB brought up an interesting point — who got to tell DM about his sister’s DUI six months ago and now this? He has a habit of shooting the messenger.

    This is just adding to the sticky question list that DM can never answer and for the past more than a year, the cult can’t even risk having a spokeshole answer.

    Do you beat your underlings?
    Where’s your wife Shelly?
    Did you screen and arrange dates for Tom Cruise?
    How’s your twin sister’s drug charge going?

    • Phil McKraken

      This is particularly problematic. How is it that the “fastest growing religion” has does not answer any questions for the press, ever .. not even through a spokesperson? I can understand how it’s an impossible situation for Miscavige and all who answer for his actions, but it will sure look kind of weird when larger chunks of poo start hitting the fan and the media takes a genuine interest in all things Sci.

      • MissCandle

        {Why are you doubting S-Lying-Tology’s response? The un-church IS growing by leaps and bounds. Did you not see the picture of the model leaping out of the limo and bounding to the Celeb Center door?}

  • Ka-Pow!

    I repost this here, had it under the previous topic before:
    strange review of the recent channel 4 documentary on thisissussex:
    http://www.thisissussex.co.uk/Channel-4-Scientology-documentary-draws-mixed/story-19407895-detail/story.html
    “The real story Channel 4 could have chosen to tell is the unprecedented worldwide growth by the church”

    • ze moo

      “Indeed, in the past year, more than 40 million people have
      visited the Church of Scientology’s websites”

      I hope Google got $4.57 per visit. That would amount to 182+million in google fees. No wonder people keep their stock price up.

      • Phil McKraken

        Heh. For that kind of revenue, Sergey Brin ought to give them any preference they want in Search results. ;-)

    • noseinabk

      I checked the link earlier for comments and it had one anti cult post. Now I see only 1 pro cult post. The new post deleted the old?

      • noseinabk

        EDIT: At this moment I see 2 post. The earlier post by Ronbothunter is gone though.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      “unprecedented worldwide growth”

      This is getting so boring.
      Its almost as bad as “bitter defrocked apostate”.

      Sheesh.

      • stateofcircle

        Vogon poetry is too kind.
        Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings poetry is more apt.
        Perhaps that is Karin (if that’s a real person) Pouw’s real name.

      • aquaclara

        I know…they need a new dictionary. But in the meantime, I am finding that It sounds better like this {bitter defrocked apostate}.
        and {unprecedented worldwide growth}.
        and my favorite one of all, {ecclesiastical}, which when put in front of anything remotely Scilonishly descriptive, adds just that right touch.
        This snark font is so useful. And, well, it WAS inspired by LRH. In a way.

  • Bradley Greenwood

    She pointed out my feelings exactly when she said that she is human. COB, on the other hand, is a reptile.

  • http://www.tingleff.org/jensting/muslinger/ Jens TINGLEFF

    Jenna is right that this news is cheered (well, by me) not because I think that Denise Gentile should be treated in any way different from others in her situation but because of the exposure it gives to David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige.
    While the trouble the Denise is going through is her private concern (up to a point) the control that the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology puts on news and other information is part of the real story. Another part of the real story is, as Jenna says, the hypochrisy of David Miscavige who is held up a an example to everyone and adored on an industrial scale by the victims of the mind-fuck perpetrated by the Co$. (For examples of the adulation check out leaks from Facebook.)

    Maybe the victims will be less eager to donate to WTH leaflets if they heard how far from happy David Miscavige’s family seems to be.

  • http://www.angrygaypope.com/ Angry Gay Pope

    This is why soap operas are disappearing from TV. Soap fans get everything they need from Scientology or tabloid tv now…. you could not make up details like this in a story. People would not believe it.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Soap Opera, Reality TV and a Sitcom…all rolled into one.

      • stillgrace

        … with a dash of True Crime and Horror!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Oh heck yeah…Duh on me!

          Oh, and don’t forget the SciFi!!!

          • MissCandle

            and Horror
            Edit: Sorry stillgrace — did not read your response carefully enough

            • stillgrace

              Always room for more Horror when it comes to scientology!

            • BuryTheNuts2

              Yes, unfortunately that part seems particularly endless.

    • Missionary Kid

      Men have their soap operas too. It’s called WWE. Sadly, that doesn’t seem to be disappearing

      • Spackle Motion

        Pro sports are male versions of soap operas. The murders, bad mouthing, and awful behavior is rampant in every single professional sport.

        • dbloch7986

          True ^^^

        • the wrong cranberry

          Yep. Sometimes what’s going on off the field is far more interesting than what’s happening on it. (I will never forget the 2005 Detroit Tigers, okay, wtf i cannot even etc.)

  • dbloch7986

    I also had a wonderful Aunt. Her name was Brenda Singer. She was my dad’s sister. Before Scientology she was a teacher. I believe that my dad was responsible for her joining Scientology. I don’t talk about her much because her story is probably one of the greatest heartbreaks I’ve experienced. I also carry some guilt for the circumstances of her passing.

    She was the first to move out to California. She joined staff at Orange County Org decades ago when Ramona (who is now a declared SP) was running the show; I forget her last name.

    When my dad decided to follow suit, she flew out to California to pick my sister and I up and fly us back. That way we wouldn’t have to ride in the moving truck. My brother was too young to fly (still an infant) so he rode with my parents.

    We lived with my aunt for a month or so, while my dad found work and a place for us to live. Eventually we all moved out and into a house in Eagle Rock, Los Angeles, CA.

    My aunt was always very kind, caring and loving towards us kids. She would always let us stay over for the weekend when she could. She would always cook for us and always had toys and computer games for us to play. I loved her a lot. She was devastated when I joined the Sea Org.

    When I was in the Sea Org my aunt bought me a cell phone. She was the one that arranged to take me to the airport so I could catch a flight to visit a friend in Sacramento. She was always there for me if I ever needed anything.

    She went through a nightmare on staff. She got very, very sick. She had all kinds of disgusting people coming through her house to help her pay rent (they were also staff members). She barely scraped together the money they needed to make a living.

    Eventually she left staff and got a real estate job making tons of money.

    Once I was booted out of the Sea Org, and in retrospect, my dad did everything he could to stand between my aunt and me. He started talking crap about her left and right, telling me that she was a crazy PTS lady and not to talk to her about my experiences on staff. Now that I am older and I can look back on it, I can see that it was because he knew that he could lose me to her, because she was becoming disaffected, as was I.

    He always had it out for her husband. Eventually he used an affair that her husband committed to convince her to get a divorce. She came to live with us for a while.

    Unbeknownst to me or anyone else in the house he started reading her e-mail and digging through her instant messages. This resulted in an argument that eventually resulted in him kicking her out of the house.

    About a year later I had decided it was time for me to leave Scientology and I was planning on getting in touch with her. It was then that I received a frantic phone call from my dad. My aunt had died while out on an appraisal.

    The ensuing weeks showed me just what a cold-hearted motherfucker my dad was. He raced to get every piece of her estate that he could. He tried to get power of attorney from her husband so he could execute the estate (she died before signing the divorce papers). It was horrible to watch just how bad he wanted her money.

    It still pains me today to know that she undoubtedly died of a broken heart. It was at that moment that I knew the clock was ticking for my departure. I didn’t know how much longer I could stand it. It was disgusting to see the lack of compassion; the lack of love….

    Words fail me at this point.

    All in all, it led me down the train of thought: what happens when they discover that I no longer want anything to do with Scientology?

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Oh my gosh, Derek. That another heartbreaker of a story. Especially when I read, “I also carry some guilt for the circumstances of her passing.” There is nothing, absolutely nothing for you to feel guilty about in this event. If anything, the guilt is your father’s – not yours.

      As a reminder to all here in the Bunker, this is Derek’s Go Fund Me site:

      http://www.gofundme.com/15sp1k

      He wants to relocate to East Texas to reconnect with his new found biological family and to go to university. I see that as of today, he has raised $515 dollars of the $5,000 he needs to move. Just saying…

      • Poison Ivy

        Dropped in to his Go Fund Me site. Suggest others do too.

        • dbloch7986

          Thank you so much, both of you!

          I went to give notice to my boss and I couldn’t contain my excitement about moving. It melted her cold heart (haha). She gave me a hug! If you knew her you’d know what a big deal that is.

          • Poison Ivy

            I think you bring out the hugs in people. Derek xo

    • Michael Leonard Tilse

      Derek, Thank you. Thank you for telling your story. Thank you for your honesty. Thank you for bringing me to tears. As they stream from my eyes I know your pain and I know my own.

      And that I can cry is a joyous thing.

      • aquaclara

        This damn cult. I’m sharing my box of tissues with you, because we both need them.

        You said the most important things exactly right, Michael.

        Damn cult.

        Here…more tissues.

        • Kitz

          I’ll add my tears and tissues as well.

          Michael, Derek, and all the other exes who have shared their stories – Thank you for bringing what this group does into the light. Your courage and honesty in the telling touches this jaded, hardened bitch in ways you will never understand. We all have our own darkness that threatens to overcome and destroy, but your stories of fighting the darkness that is the cos, and overcoming it, is heartening.

          While I wish for the downfall of this organization, my greater wish is for all of you to find the peace and happiness that you so very much deserve.

          <3

          • aquaclara

            up arrowing this a bunch more times. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    • Observer

      This is why Scientology. Must. DIE! The stories of people hanging into their humanity while LRH’s monster tries to crush it out of them are heartbreaking and infuriating. I hope your dad’s conscience reasserts itself strongly enough to wake him up, and SOON.

      • dbloch7986

        It’s a wonder that Miscavige doesn’t personally recruit my dad. The more I hear Jenna speak about him, the more it sounds like my dad is running the Church.

        • BuryTheNuts2

          I am going to say something that may not be too popular, but here goes anyway.

          You know that old saying about not being able to choose your family???

          Most of us love the shit out of our family and that is great….the way it should be in fact.
          But sometimes a family member can be someone who is truly toxic and will not or cannot change. Sometimes those family members can seek to destroy the people they should cherish and love the most.
          I hope your Dad is not one of those people….only you can decide that. But if you really think he is that bad…..I mean really and truly, you may be better off without him in your life.

          I realize you have other family in his and Scientology’s grip…so that makes it especially precarious and difficult.
          I hope you get those you love (and who will love you in kind), back.

          Hopefully these parts of your Dad are just what Scientology has done to him and he can recover and humanize again.
          I wish you all the luck in the world D.

          • dbloch7986

            That’s nothing new. I’ve heard the same thing before.

            I’m not making any attempt to reach out to my family in Scientology at the moment. It’s really not a big priority. They made their choices, unfortunate as they are. My brother is the only one I might try to talk out of Scientology one day, if he ever gets out of the Sea Org.

            Right now I am too busy beating a new path through life because the one that was presented to me just wasn’t what I wanted. I have built my own family here in LA and they have “raised” me well enough that I can wander off into my own adventures.

            We will meet each other in person. Tyler is only a stone’s throw from you. Maybe before I get back to work I’ll make the trek there.

            • Captain Howdy

              We can’t chose our family, but we can chose our friends.

              “Friends are God’s apology for relations” – Hugh Kingsmill

            • BuryTheNuts2

              You know how to find me Derek. Anytime.

    • aquaclara

      Oh, Derek, this is one helluva recollection to hold on to. I am sobbing over the hurt that this cult has inflicted on you and countless others.

      Your aunt was a very special person who took such good care of you. Like you, she experienced the worst of the cult. Like you, she also escaped from it, as hard and as painful as that was. She also loved you very, very much.

      There is nothing that would have made her happier than to know where you are today, and how you are doing. I believe with all my heart that she knows. You can’t see her, but her spirit is there, watching out for you, knowing perhaps more than any other member of your family, how hard things were for you.

      As far as your father, BuryTheNuts2 has the best response. I’m sorry. He isn’t a father any more.
      Aunt Brenda is an inspiration. I know she is happy today, seeing you emerge as a smart, gifted, passionate and honest person with a positive future ahead of you. And she’s saying, it’s about time.

      THIS IS WHY.

    • Poison Ivy

      So heartbreaking Derek, what Scientology did to you and your family. It must have hurt indeed to see what your Dad was capable of doing in the name of money. You should not be carrying the guilt for something your father/family did.
      Remember, YOU didn’t turn out like that. You stayed true to yourself and what is right and good.
      Stay strong, stay yourself.

    • Xique

      It sounds like she was a lovely aunt and friend. Hold on to your memories of her, and remember , love never dies.

    • Bob

      Derek, I can only say that my experiences with the church parallel your disappointments and abuses with your father and virulent church members. Your revelations have more value to me than you could know. I am so glad I am no longer connected to those people. I appreciate your willingness to share what have to be painful memories. I look forward to the day when the scum-sucking robots are shut down because the EVIL central computer is no more.

  • MissCandle

    Two family members call Denise a four-letter word that ends in “UNT”. Jenna calls her AUNT.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Beautifully framed sentiment!

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      And it is this dichotomty that Denise Miscavige Gentile finds herself right smack in the middle of when it comes to her family – and all other points in between as she tries to navigate through family life. Until I read otherwise, and contrary to my reaction yesterday, today I find her a tragic figure and no longer surprised by the current events in her life. We all have different coping skills when we feel trapped and can not perceive having other options.

    • GSioux

      There you go! Love it!

  • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

    Church of Scientology spokesman Ken Delusion today issued a terse statement on this matter:

    “COB RTC David Miscavige never had a twin sister, a niece, nor even a father, and his mother is dead.”

    Moreover, the Founder never had a first, second, or third wife and most certainly never had a daughter by the second wife whom he never had.

    “Moreover, the Founder never fathered any children as he never had any wives. Like COB, the Founder spent his life devoted to the Church.

    “Mr. Miscavige wishes these strangers who share his unusual surname the best of luck in their unfortunate and tragic lives and, no, he is not related to any of them, has never met them, and does not know them.”

    • Sherbet

      Well, see? I knew there would be a rational explanation. No relation! There you go! Thanks, Gr8 one.

    • aquaclara

      Oh, you are so nice for writing Karen’s excuse, er, press release for her! This is very funny, and I also fully expect to see it in tomorrow’s news.

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        In terms of Church PR, what Ken Delusion has to say is always more true and correct than anything his junior Karin Pouw has to say.

        Karin Pouw is presently away from her PR duties and is busy cleaning bathroom floors by use of a painstaking and exact technique outlined by COB Directive CBFWYT.

    • BuryTheNuts2

      Who are these people?

      Are they Ken Delusion’s kids?
      Are they Jerry’s kids?
      Are they YOUR’s OTVIII?

      Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        At present, COB is only paying for Denise’s legal defense so she doesn’t get a book deal like Jenna and babble lurid accusations all over the place about how COB played with dolls as a boy.

        While this is technically true, COB was using the dolls only to work on his TR’s and auditing skills.

        That COB wore Denise’s dresses and little white shoes while doing endless days, weeks, and years of auditor training in his bedroom shows how dedicatedly COB was working on the problems faced by girlish preclears.

        COB’s hyper-masculinity was the correct response to all of those strange girlish feelings he had that continued into his 20′s.

        Oh how COB wishes Denise would pack up and move to another planet!

        • BuryTheNuts2

          But didn’t COB continue to play with dolls well into adulthood?

          Did COB not have very expensive and “lifelike” dolls made in the image of Mike Rinder and Heber Jentzsch?

          Was he still wearing Denise’s dresses when he was playing with his Mike Rinder doll?

          I bet he put curlers in his pompadour and wore blue eyeshadow too.
          I think COB only wants Denise to move to another planet so he can raid her closet.
          I hear they wear the same exact size.

        • MissCandle

          Shortie only wore Denise’s little white shoes because they were heels.

      • Captain Howdy

        Who are those people?

        • BuryTheNuts2

          Those are the founders kids that he didn’t have.

          • Captain Howdy

            I can see the resemblance now.

    • 1subgenius

      They don’t like me
      I can feel it
      And I don’t like them
      It’s the same old song
      They don’t like me
      I just know it
      But I’d be happy
      Just to get along

      They try to love me
      I know they do
      ’cause when I tell them I love you
      They say we love you too

      But I know
      They don’t like me
      I can feel it
      And I don’t like them
      It’s the same old song
      They don’t like me
      I just know it
      But I’d be happy
      Just to get along

      She told me
      You can call me mother
      He said son just call me dad
      We’ll treat you like the only boy
      We wish we never had

      She said you know he doesn’t drink much
      And we’ve never heard him curse
      And he’s really not that ugly dear
      She could’ve done much worse

      –Lyle Lovett “They Don’t Like Me” (obviously about his marriage to Julia Roberts)

    • FistOfXenu

      You forgot “anyways, the Founder was Cecil Rhodes so he was probably gay so of course he never married. Jack Parsons never had children by Hubbard”

      • OTVIIIisGrrr8!

        The Founder never claimed to be Cecil Rhodes. That is a lie spread by SP’s.

        As the records prove, the Founder was sent in undercover to break up a Black Magic ring led by one Jack Parsons.

        This Black Magic ring was trying to seduce American nuclear physicists by use of Psych PDH.

        The Black Magic ring having been located and shattered, the Founder began his grounbreaking work on Dianetics: The Original Thesis

  • Racnad

    If Denise were to leave now, it seems she’d have a fair amount of family support to help her get re-established.

  • InterestedObserver12

    I love Jenna’s nuanced understanding of her aunt and her loyalty to someone who showed her love where there was so little to go around.

  • TonyOrtega

    New post up: Scientology loses final attempt to keep documents secret, vows to give Laura D 18,000 pages of evidence tomorrow.

    • Poison Ivy

      Woo hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • dbloch7986

      Awesome, that’s great news! Laura, I am very happy for you!

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      Tony Ortega, I have exhausted the ways to tell you this but, “You are the best. The absolute best!”

      I’m already there now reading but came back to this post to tell you so.

  • chuckbeattyexseaorg75to03

    Jenna is just great! Such a great interview, thankyou Tony for asking her to speak about her aunt.

    It’s asking a lot for David Miscavige to do some self reflection, but compared to his neice and brother and sisters, and his father, I hope David Miscavige somehow reacts positively and humanly, and somehow publicly about all his family’s positive actions.

    All the Miscaviges ought be very proud of Jenna, she’s so wise for her years!

  • Eugene Smith

    I just finished writing my comments but i guess it got wiped out when I registered.My main point is that i was wiped out financially by this evil organization and i have offered to assist to target movie stars and all organizations who support and assist this outfit in their evil business.
    they are a terrorist organization who hide their intentions under the legal organization called a church.
    just look at little tommy cruise saluting his leader, how sick is that.
    And what about all the companies and people who work or provide services to him and his little nazi org.
    for the full story of my experience with these creeps drop me a line, I have nothing to lose since these bastarrds destroyed my 29 year marriage and ruined me financially and if they want to come after me again, bring it on you suck holes,I’m ready for you cowards and messengers of evil.I’ve signed up for a billion years to take you down.